I have three hundred trades on bittrex alone. Dozens of transactions with wallets. I have shapeshifted coins many times...

I have three hundred trades on bittrex alone. Dozens of transactions with wallets. I have shapeshifted coins many times. How in the fuck am I supposed to navigate this to file taxes?

Other urls found in this thread:

deltabalances.github.io/history.html
irs.gov/newsroom/irs-virtual-currency-guidance
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

also curious

none of us really knows.

its all too new

i wouldnt worry too much about it this year.

Honestly I think you can treat your wallet as a money market account. As long as you don't cash out into your real wallet, the gains are still not realized.

Then, just treat the income you received as taxable. So whatever your tax bracket is after adding your gains to your wages, pay that tax.

There will be a space for you to enter it, your purchase and sales

This is the year the IRS is going to fuck us. I'm very worried.

Only fags report their gainz.

just send them a blank check, they will take care of the rest.

You only report your trades on Coinbase or Gemini for now.

There will be so many crypto tax evaders in 2018 that the government will be perfectly happy if you call it income or long-term gains + if you report your Coinbase/Gemini trades (only if a tax form is sent out from them).

Back in the online poker days you were supposed to track every single session, or if you played tournaments it would be literally every game. People played 10s of thousands of games. One year I had to report almost 1 million in gross earnings but my net was less than 100k. I know a ton of people didnt pay on their winnings.

>being this dumb

All that matters is the final, net amount you made or lost. You could make a million trades in a year, but if the sum total amounts to $0 at the end of the year, you don't have to pay any taxes. Subtract what you started with from what you have now, and that's the amount you need to pay taxes on. The # of trades is irrelevant.

you dont. all that matters is the fiat you take out on your coinbase account

Every trade is a taxable event. How are you this fucking retarded?

Don't even log all the trades just pay your fair share of taxes. If they wanna audit you then let. Them figure out. As long as you're paying thought you don't need to worrym

Daily reminder tax threads are subversive crypto FUD. Fuck off with this fear mongering bull shit.

Until you exchange your funds into fiat, you have not incurred any capital gains. I'm not sure how it works in the USA, but in Canada you want to cash out to Tax-Free Savings Account. Any other account and you will be committing tax fraud if you don't pay a capital gains tax.

no it isnt. if you trade gold for silver, it isnt a taxable event either.

Just report when you cash out.
I'm not reporting a single thing until I make my first million.
All or nothing.

>What is a capital loss deduction?

Go read a fucking book, dumbass

try bitcoin.tax

It's what I'm using and I'm looking at a few thousand trades.

There's also cointracking.info but it's expensive as fuck.

If you use the USD pairing on Gemini/GDAX does this count as fiat? Or do they mean when you literally send that shit to your bank account?

>How in the fuck am I supposed to navigate this to file taxes?

The better question:

How the fuck didn't you keep track of your shit to know if you are making money?

Yes, of course. Every trade is a taxable event.

hes right though
if you sell a stock, you pay tax
if it turns out you didn't owe the tax, you'll get a refund
but you still have to report and pay the tax on every sale

Yes. Actually it is.

what about buying icos or giving away coins?

bitcoin.tax has a directory of CPAs that handle crypto stuff.

Give them your csv records and they'll do some Excel spreadsheet magic on it.

This. If you hand the government a check for tens of thousands of dollars, you think they are going to overly scrutinize you? They will just be shocked and glad you're paying.

simple, just hold until you can pay taxes in a couple satoshi

behold!

Um yeah it is. Unless you trade break even each time, each trade equates a gain or a loss based on the original transaction. You need to track them all.

Your buying the ICO with btc or eth so that trade is taxable. If you hold the ICO coins for more than a year then it's long term capital gains.

Not sure about gifting coins.

Quit being a fag no ones mentioning it

how do you get file from website that has been closed (Mt. Gox, BTC-e)

top kek

And if the ico was a scam?

What about money accidentally sent to the wrong address? Also irs literally says it's treated as property

This is how I keep track of my stock trades and I've adapted it to Bitcoin.

The above is a fictional Bitcoin order, while the bottom is a real Chipotle stock trade I bought. The bitcoin order is entered in GDAX, but not executed yet.

I show how I keep track of whether the trade was profitable in a second.
You can obviously do this in Excel or whatever but I'm used to this way. Maybe if I traded a lot more I would use a different system.

lol

>I show
Meant to say I'll show.

Here is my Netflix trades and how with each trade I can see whether it was profitable. I'll do the same with bitcoin.

Probably good questions for a tax expert which I'm not. I imagine you can write off that stuff though.

On another note, anyone that uses Etherdelta should use this to get their transaction history:
deltabalances.github.io/history.html

It even exports to a csv compatible with bitcoin.tax and cointracking.

rolling on the floor laughing my ass off

ur fucked

>(((They)))
Lol pretty much

What is so funny? Easy to do and you can quickly see if you made any money on the trade.

Real Talk.

I own a business (sole proprietor) and was audited this year. It started in June and was for 2015. Its still on going. I have had about 5 document requests totally about 500 various documents/invoices.

Some notes:

-Unless the exchange is sending a tax document to the IRS, they aren't gonna know or ask if you don't also send your end. Coinbase I believe sends some kind of doc if you cash out to fiat. But stuff on bittrex, etc.? THey will have no clue

-They will ask for your bank statements for the whole year, but, my auditor never asked if my wife had a bank account. I only gave mine. I am a sole proprietor so I don't have a separate personal account, I pay it all out of one. So if you have crypto fiat going into these accounts, You'll have to account for that sure. Best bet? There is an extremely low chance that a regular person will be audited. if you do cash out to fiat, send it to your Mom's bank account and then get the cash. My audit has been VERY throughout and it never once came up about my crypto accounts. But if you show that you sent money to an exchange, you better show that there is still crypto in there, show something.

You gotta realize these auditors are working multiple cases at a time. So yeah they look through your shit but they are just glancing over stuff most of the time. Your 300 trades on bittrex will never be an issues, especially if you aren't writing anything else off besides the standard deduction.

Don't sweat it, don't worry about it until its a problem. (Unless you are into the high 6 figures)

Death to America.

>They will just be shocked and glad you're paying.
kekd

>(Unless you are into the high 6 figures)
thats all of our goals bro, did you think we're here to pay for pizza and pbr?

>I am a sole proprietor so I don't have a separate personal account

That's a big mistake. Not against the law, but a separate account makes things easier to understand and easier to deal with personal stuff vs business. Matter of fact that is like the biggest thing the IRS checks in their audits of small business. Paying for personal stuff with business money. My aunt and uncle got hit hard with that stuff.

not that guy but once I have $75k I'm out.

My wife's grandma gave us 1 acre of her land to build on. We're gonna build a tiny house and live off the land, set up a small online business to pay utilities/normal bills.

I'm not looking to get rich, just stop wagecucking.

Holy fuck how is your IQ that low. Read a fucking book, capital gain tax is not hard to understand.

Cucks like you bring the IQ of the board down.

That may seem funny, but I worked for a small plumbing firm and the city of pittsburgh had a strange tax that applied to certain jobs in the city. It was complex in that you basically had to know for every job whether you were in the city or county and calculate your business tax. Did they do that, hell no! The CPA advice: just send them something and they'll never bother you!

Prove it's capital gains faggot.

I got the same goals unfortunately it costs a hell of a lot more where I live.

Its no issue at all as long as you have it straight in your accounting software. not deducting things as expenses that aren't. luckily I don't have anything to hide, so i'll be fine

at first I was expecting to have to hand over my exchange logins but it never came up. the thing is finishing up now after 6 months

Jesus how does that work? Deposit into the TFSA when withdrawing from an exchange?

I don't know about you but I'm going to keep it simple. I'm just going to take my last transaction and subtracted from the amount I put in.

You reminded me of this.
>please iphone picture face the right direction

You are taxed on the relative value of what you traded with at the time of the trade, and then the relative value of whatever you traded with when you trade it again. So if you bought BTC for $2k and then bought some alt when it was was 5k, you are taxed for however much BTC you traded for the alt based on how much it costs relative to when you got it. When you sell the alt, you are taxed in the profit of BTC made by selling the alt.

What people don't realize is that it's a flat tax. So if you add the total amount of profits together, and then apply the percentage, it comes out the same. So you don't have to calculate tax for each trade if you just track in USD value.

The IRS however does not even actually have forms for tracking altcoin trades. For forex trading there's stacks of paperwork for every trade that they do, but the same does not exist for BTC. A lot of people get away by just paying the tax for the cash out amount and the IRS doesn't pursue them any further.

Fuck try 2.

Had to correct it on my pc.

tilt it up faggot you are ruining my neck.

Bingo. I use Quicken Home & Business, only one separate account for an experimental business, rest of my business is mixed with my personal. Have no problem separating the two, the transaction categories are totally different.

please try again user, i'm curious

I fixed it. Fucking phones. Both Android and iPhone always mess this simple task up, yet MS paint has no problems with it.

>doesn't know how to rotate inside the ifag app

In photos and in the camera it shows as exactly that way: Yet, when I post it turned it.

It's because the phone stores the orientation that the phone was held in at the time of the picture in the metadata, and not every app pays attention to it. Shows up good on your PC, Veeky Forums cares about the meta. Fucking annoying that it even exists. Should be WYSIWYG and call it a day. Not a lot of effort to rotate a pic.

Sorry got that backward. Shows up good on your PC because it cares about the metadata, Veeky Forums ignores it and doesn't rotate properly.

what really shocked me... an accountant is handling my audit. I said "my wife has a bank account too". The auditor never asked to see any statements from that account. Could have just been an oversight by the auditor, but like I said, this has been going on 6 months, so you would think they would be like "hey lets see whats in your wife's bank account".... Never asked.

Okay that makes sense, because otherwise Safari is not transmitting the metadata for their own Apple camera and photos.

Look at all these good goys that post the same shit every "tax thread"
aka crypto fud by the IRS

Probably because they are looking for draws and if the taxes are paid on them. Your business probably doesn't use a lot of cash, which would give you extra scurrility.

Every couple years my wife and I go on a credit card signup bonus spree for free money, just for the lulz and it hasn't hurt our credit. We'll apply for the same cards at the same banks as individuals, and double up on our bonuses. Despite being married, you'd be surprised how separate they(financial industries/IRS) consider you.

You can move someplace cheaper right?

but uhhmm judge uhh Veeky Forums said it was okay not to worry about it this year

I can see the Yahoo Finance article now:
Pay the Least Money on your Bitcoin sales: Move to Cambodia!

lol

Here's the bottom line, if you have to ask, you better pay your taxes. There may be people who understand it, or think they understand it, and if they have found a way to avoid taxes safely and the risks around it, go for it.

If you're not sure, you don't know how to invest. If you have to ask the question of gains and losses, you don't have the sophistication(as little as it takes on this basic subject) to be an investor and this is probably not for you.

If you didn't pull any money out of your crypto wallets, you could get away with not paying any taxes. If you truly believe in the crypto, hold it and use it through crypto buying channels. If you're looking to convert this back to your native currency, you're gonna be fucked anyway.

Cointracking.info

I am a registered user, have over 500 trades, it calculates short and long tax.


Paying taxes on this is NOT (final - entry)

it IS keeping track of every loss or gain on every single trade.

You could have made $300k in capital gains this year, but made some crappy decisions and now your portfolio is $50k. You WILL be paying taxes on that 300k capital gain, but you can sell and deduct losses from gains in order to minimize that effect.

The reason I am paying taxes is because the govt can get smart and track coinbase addresses to every single trade you ever do. It is possible they could find your lies, and it isn't worth the risk.

btc to gold hold gold sell gold off to gold buyers and leave cash out of accounts?

no clue

This is exactly what I am planning on doing.

I'm not saying that's legal to do, I'm just saying that until it hits your bank account, they can never know unless they know your wallet, which they don't. It's tax evasion, but they just don't have the means of figuring that out. The second you convert back to USD(or whatever currency) and it hits your bank account, you run the risk of being up for scrutiny, and you better have these records in order.

Don't use Bittrex. Its the worst exchange. They are a money laundering scam. The IRS is gonna put the Bittrex kingpin in jail on Christmas night.

I use coinbase, so they're going to have some printable sheet.
I'm just going to give it to my tax attorney and say "figure it out"

But, either way, you should be tracking ALL of your transactions in an app like blockfolio (for a number of reasons).

I can go into blockfolio and see when/what trade I made at any time.

Any 100bucks fucking accountant for can do crypto taxes now days, not to mention online crypto tax services etc.

>anons should understand by paying taxes we building legitimate future where cryptos perceived by gov as source of legitimate synergy of math and technology that can provide revenue to states and not viewed as money laundering schema by stupid cunts like Danna Fienstein and the club.

fuck those records taxation is theft.
Unless you moond and have fat stacks just bite the bullet pay the taxes on the lump that you put back into your fiat ignore the internaltrades.
What ever hits fiat land is what you should pay taxes on if your a gullible smuchtt.

Don't fuck with the IRS. Seriously.

You're better off spending an extra $500-$1000 than to pay for attorney, fines, ect ALL ON TOP of the risk of going to jail.

I have a feeling the IRS is going to go after crypto this year hardcore. Don't be one of the examples.

English as a second language?

>How in the fuck am I supposed to navigate this to file taxes?
wash it all with monero and change wallets 4 times.
you are free.

thank me neo.

DON'T GET ANY TAX ADVICE FROM FUCKING Veeky Forums.

I've described what is legal and then what is actually possible. Don't see any conflict here. It's a risk you can take on your own. I've been audited several times, and depending on who your auditor is, your mileage may vary. I couldn't in good conscience tell people to just forget about it and call it a day. If you get picked, they will be thorough.

ye

ICOs are illegal in the US. you better not report your investments in ICOs

This aint stock and trading btc for xmr isnt "selling". You dumb faggots are making this way more complicated than it needs to be. Fuck it. Bank account in - bank account out = taxable amount. If the IRS comes knocking make them sort it out.

Flip genders and do a few comfy years in lady jail.

you aren't

You are better than I am at any other language. Still, you could be considered a stroke patient with english as your first language.

The IRS was pretty clear on this
irs.gov/newsroom/irs-virtual-currency-guidance

"The character of gain or loss from the sale or exchange of virtual currency depends on whether the virtual currency is a capital asset in the hands of the taxpayer."

For trading, it's treated exactly like a stock, where short term capital gains are taxed at your income level.

stop being a cuck faggot

Also they won't "sort it out". They make a case against you with their observations, and make you prove them wrong. If you are unable to, their case against you will stand and you will owe what they say you owe. That's not how it works, buddy.