Flames of War General: "Tiger" Spotted Edition

Where are these lists?

It is extra work, but I'd rather not have it around. As for the plug underneath, no harder to remove, or paint in a shadowed colour. I'm not saying everyone should, just that I do.

>Where are these lists?
They're called "Hero" lists, and are found in Desperate Measures and Berlin. They're easier to start with from a model and rules perspective, but from a gameplay perspective they're seen as underpowered because they lack smoke.

He's referring to the infamous Heroes of the Soviet Union lists, more commonly known as Hero lists.

Soviet Hero lists are in Desperate Measures and Berlin.

And as previously mentioned, a vocal segment of the Soviet player base vehemently hate Hero Tankovy.

>And is it true a new edition is coming out?

Yes. I believe they're aiming for March/April next year.

Although I'd probably put it on more of an April/May schedule.

Newer player here buying for a German army.

What type of Nebelwerfers should I purchase/use for my late war list?

So...sell my on TY Germans. I may have a buddy looking at Brits as well and I would like to keep things diverse without playing Russians.

So what's special about the Leopord?

Oh I see, I was memed. That can't be compared to "everyone's else" lists, when it's lacking crucial assets. Doesn't help that the IS-2 was statted up nonsensically. But whatever, not my monkey, not my circus.

Does anyone know if we're getting plastic infantry for MW?

15cm, the one with a smoke bombardment.

Germans in Team Yankee are a small elite force assuming you're playing as mostly tanks.

The Leopard 2 is the premiere NATO MBT at this stage.

Armor on-par with the Abrams, and with a significantly stronger 120mm main gun.

You'll be outnumbered, but you you can take a beating, and dish out a beating in return.

German AA is also quite good, with the Gepard, Roland, and Fliegerfausts all forming a potential "Fuck your aircraft" no-fly zone.

Not exactly memed, but yeah, Hero Tankovy does exist. T-34/85s at the same platoon sizes and points costs as Shermans or Panzer IVs, without the restrictions of Hen & Chicks.

But still no smoke.

A lot of Soviet players hate it with a fiery burning passion, even after bitching and moaning constantly about H&C, they claim they'd still take H&C over Hero. *shrug*

Leopard 2 is currently the best tank in the game

I mean you pay 11 points each for them but they have the veterancy, thermal sights, armor, and speed of an M1 but a 120mm gun matching the firepower of a T-72, but with RoF 2 while stationary or moving.

They'll chew through T-72s and do respectably against blufor due to RoF 2

So small numbers, super elite kind of guys? Would mean less shit to paint.

Speaking of painting; any other good color schemes for TY stuff? I suck at painting and don't want to horribly fuck up camo, and also want my stuff to not look like I just shamelessly copied the studio schemes.

Any sort of cool urban schemes?

what are the brits like
I've been eyeing them

>look like I just shamelessly copied the studio schemes

But that's how it literally worked. There was a 'right' way to paint the camo; there were a specific pattern and colors for each vehicle they they put on with a template. It was a special kind of paint and the pattern was specifically designed

BMP

You mean hero lists, which are awful?

>seen as
>vocal segment
Guys hero lists are trash, anything you can do with a hero list you can do better as western allies or germans.

They're very WW2-y, with AT platoons, tanks that shoot less when they move, and the light mortar.

I think Red Bear has a heavy assault gun list. That should be pretty decent if you provide the right support. For the love of Stalin, don't take the hero heavy assault gun list out of Berlin.

That wasn't the point. Yes, US and German tank forces are easier to play.

The point is that Soviet players for years were asking for tank forces without Hen and Chicks, and when they finally get them they say that it sucks worse than having to deal with H&C.

They want their fuck-huge tank formations, AND they want No H&C. And they're upset they can't have it both ways.

Suck it the fuck up, you whiney little bitch.

Who pissed in your coffee this morning?

It's a steep learning curve for a new player to begin as Soviet Tankovy.

It's like choosing to start a brand new game you've never played before on Ultimate Difficulty.

>It's like choosing to start a brand new game you've never played before on Ultimate Difficulty.

Not really. You've got the best brute force instrument in the game to use. It's no harder than a newbie coming up against a Tankovy. They're not any harder, just different. The same principles tend to apply anyway.

Either way, the veteran is probably going to curb stomp you.

*Air Raid Siren Blares*

>They want their fuck-huge tank formations, AND they want No H&C. And they're upset they can't have it both ways.
Soviet player here.
I never see soviet players say this.
I do often see people (maybe you every time?) claim this in threads though.

Hero lists are kind of crap. They are also fun to play occasionally and I would say every communist player MUST play them a few times. It will give you an appreciation for h&c and also better understanding of non-h&c tactics. This will help immensly in playing standard soviets.

A snowflake list or two would be fun but soviets are fine as they are.

Had a big game of team yankee i've never played a game that ran that smoothly with that many units on the table

How large of a game?

no points limit just throw as much on the table
so about 50 odd t72 tanks with abot 35 nato tanks and then a bunch of other assets

>They want their fuck-huge tank formations, AND they want No H&C.
What? No. Holy shit no. My biggest issue with regular tankovy is that it forces me to bring silly numbers of tanks. Although that is colored by the fact the only regular tankovy run around here are
>30 Matildas with SU-100s
>30 T-34/76s with SU-100s
>infantry? never heard of them
It's worse in MW and EW because from a historical standpoint that tank battalion you see is actually most of a tank army. There is no mechanism for showing a Soviet tank unit during or after a major battle. It would be great if Hero-type lists existed for those periods as well so I could properly run my pet tank corps as it was, even when it had fewer tanks than the minimum size of a tank company in FOW.

>The point is that Soviet players for years were asking for tank forces without Hen and Chicks, and when they finally get them they say that it sucks worse than having to deal with H&C.
Okay, so, I honestly don't know what the US would ask for, but let's say Brits got a list that allows uparmoured cromwells and gives them tally-ho instead of SIF, but in return you can only take motor infantry for support and you can't take artillery.

Do you see how getting a thing you'd like isn't helpful if it takes away other things you'd need to use?

>Soviet player here.
>A snowflake list or two would be fun but soviets are fine as they are.
Gonna raise an eyebrow here, unless you mean strictly "Soviets are playable".

>My biggest issue with regular tankovy is that it forces me to bring silly numbers of tanks.
20 tanks is hardly silly.
>most of a tank armour
30 tanks is an entire tank army?

In mid war you are likely running less than 20 T-34s if you still want support, so the numbers are fine by me.

>30 tanks is an entire tank army?
I've only looked at the 2nd GTA in any depth, but double digit strengths for the entire unit was depressingly common until until the rest after the invasion of Romania.

What's the right T-34/76 to T-34/85 mix for a tankovy platoon? 7/3?

Should I leave one of the two companies all 76's with the idea that one unit will be static firepower while the other tries to outflank, run down infantry, etc?

>user's first day outside of /b/ doesn't go well, he is not blending in.

I play like that. It works for me.

Only having peashooter T34s in a unit might make it look like a weak threat but damn are they cheaper and the mobility gained by wide tracks really shine with those big blobs of unwieldly tanks.

Let's help him with camo schemes!

I tended to have a shooting platoon and an assaulting platoon, if you bring tank escorts into the equation. It also makes the choice a bit easier if you're up against bigger stuff.

For DM I do that if I can't afford 2 blobs of /85, used to run 4 /76, 4 /85 in Red Bear though, which generally let me ablate shots on the /76s while I manuevered.

>The point is that Soviet players for years were asking for tank forces without Hen and Chicks, and when they finally get them they say that it sucks worse than having to deal with H&C.

That is certainly a nice opinion you have. In actuality, Soviet players really wanted something *different. Up until Desperate Measures, everything was "spam all duh tonks". The main things they have been asking for has always been snowflake formations, with less derpy H&C rules, veterans, and smoke all coming up in a close 2nd place. What they got were fuck-awful breifings built mostly for infantry lists, that hamstring your numbers, leave you at Trained without smoke, and remove H&C. H&C is only actually a problem for experienced players when the rules force something idiotic to happen... Such as being forced to leave a previously bogged down vehicle out of fire-line, because moving it up would mean everyone is at 1-shot with +1 penalty to hit. But by far the biggest complaint has been no Veterans even when there should be, and Battlefront beating the dead-horse that is generic breifings.

>They want their fuck-huge tank formations, AND they want No H&C. And they're upset they can't have it both ways.

No. They want specific, well-known brigades represented, actual veterans (not "veterans who die like chumps"). H&C doesn't matter for shit, and I would actually like a "Stalin's Favorite" 2nd Guards Tank Army that had Hen and Chicks, and were Fearless Veteran with Always Attack.

T-34-85s to their own formation, leave the -76s by themselves due to the mobility granted by Wide Tracks.

I can't quite tell what size game that would be, but it seems lopsided towards NATO, since those 35 tanks will certainly out-shoot 50 T-72s.

Enormously so, 35 NATO MBTs is 70 shots vs 50.

Right, which makes me think it was a "use everything we have" game instead of an attempt to play an equal points game.

Well, yes, but someone was saying it "seems" lopsided. There's no seems about it.

Things I didn't know #43:
Firing an AA MG makes you top 0 in assault, and you can't fire it and a main gun in the same turn.

I guess this is a good time to plug the Red Banner Soviet Brainstorming discord. A place for us /fowg/ Soviet players to discuss and brainstorm some more unique lists for the soviets. All are welcome even if you just want to pole your head in from time to time to see what we are discussing.

Current topic: a conglomerate list for the desperate defense of moscow containing slots for protype tank designs such as the SU-100Y.

discord.gg/GhjQh

...

Starting a German force.

I just bought 10 Panzer IVH tanks, 5 stugs, and two of the 15cm NW41 for artillery.

Is there anything else anyone would recommend?

Pic related, its my Panthers from Rommels wovles set.

Any infantry? You're going to need some for holding objectives.

Also, recon is incredibly useful for Ambush denial and revealing concealed enemy troops.

Some recon. Plastic Pumas should be in stores soon.

You sure painted those up fast if you are the same user who bought Rommel's Wolves a thread or two ago.

I have the panzergrenadier platoon from the rommels wolves. Other than that no, no other infantry.

Any suggestions for infantry or recon?

I have only played 2 games so far and they were just tank battles.

I am that user I think, I did ask a month ago about rommels wolves.

I paid someone to paint them because I travel for my job and am away from home for anywhere from one to two weeks at a time.

So I don't have access to Leopord right now, so I'm just gonna ask here.

What's the point of taking Leopord I's over Leopord II's? The 2 seems to have way better armor with a better gun. Is the 1 just cheaper?

They're almost as fast as Leopard IIs, and are much much cheaper than IIs. Each Leopard II is 11 points. Three Leopard Is is 9 points. AT-19 is perfectly acceptable for Flank Shots duty.

So the I's are the fast flanking tank of the German army?

Thank makes more sense.

They are poorly armored and not quite as fast as a leo 2 but close. I have played 2 games with them and as far as I can tell they need to be deployed on the flanks and hidden in cover. You can use your Luchs to move your deployment up.

You get way more of them for your points, and since they have the same number of shots and still absolutely annihilate BMPs it helps deal with large hordes of soviet afvs

Surely the Cossack list in Red Bear is a snowflake. Dunno if it actually works or not.

But yeah, other than that, Soviet lists feel too similar to each other. They don't have recon companies or a wide range of morale/skill ratings, and support options are always just a little different from one book to the next.

I guess the light and heavy assault gun lists are fairly unique, but the former scare everyone off I need monetary cost and the latter struggle because heavy ROF1 vehicles just aren't very points effective in v3.

Operation Market-Garden 1944 (2): The British Airborne Missions (Osprey Campaign 301)

With Germany being pushed back across Europe the Allied forces looked to press their advantage with Operation Market-Garden, a massive airborne assault that, if successful, could have shortened the war in the west considerably. The ground advance consisted of an armoured thrust by the British XXX Corps, while the US 82nd and 101st US Airborne Divisions secured the bridges at Eindhoven and Nijmegen and the British 1st Airborne Division and Polish 1st Airborne Brigade were tasked with seizing the final bridge at Arnhem to secure the route. What they did not realise was that the 9. SS and 10. SS-Panzer Divisions were nearby, ready to reinforce the local garrison and fend off the Allied assault.

mediafire.com/file/5xvmnxnlhdmml41/Osprey - СAM 301 - Operation Market Garden 1944 (2) British Airborne Missions.pdf

BMP

>Soviet lists feel too similar to each other
They're well within the bounds set by the other lists.

The big issue with any comparison here is LW Western Front. You remove that, and everything else falls into line. MW and EW particularly.

...

I don't think BF have to knock the standard down, they just have to give the same attention to everyone else.

It's a design issue. Western Front LW is the problem, it's the one that's been sliced down to hell and back. Bringing everyone else up to the same standard would take a long time, and for that matter, a different war. WF slices down very easily, given the intervals and variations in operations.

But look at EW. EW is nothing like LW in terms of snowflakes, Germans or not.

They're all getting attention. But the realities of the WF, and the desire to not print the basically the same list for the hundredth time, is the point of pressure here, not an attitude as to attention.

Compare blitzkrieg to barbarossa. The soviets got three lists, all generic. Even the Poles got four lists in Blitzkrieg. Hell, compare the germans to the soviets in the same book; the germans have over twice as many lists! The same is true of eastern front, arguably the best balanced period, where they get eight lists, seventeen german (plus every other axis nation).

Berlin and DM was the only time the Soviets got a focus, and from that we got heroes.

>seventeen german
Yeah, because there's more than one Front for the Germans. And mind you, there's massive overlap between EF and NA in MW.
>Barbarossa
None of those lists are snowflake lists. They seem pretty pared down, and all of them overlap a fair bit in terms of support. They're pretty much differentiated by mandatory platoon choice. You can't really justify slicing down Soviet tank lists into 4 seperate ones. There's no loss of focus anywhere, Barbarossa is a pretty generic book on both sides for the most part.

How would you have done Barbarossa, then?

>there's more than one Front for the Germans
I'm comparing Eastern Front lists. If I added in Africa it'd get worse.

>None of those lists are snowflake lists.
I didn't say they were. Germans just get twice as many generic lists as the soviets do.

For lists the soviets are missing, try all the differentiated tankovy battalions, or even a heavy tankovy battalion which isn't possible to make. There's not even a KV battalion in the digital. There's no cavalry, no paratroopers, no stay-behind partisan units... This is coming to me off the top of my head, and it's not even my job to sit down and research for lists to make into my book.

How about you actually do something about it instead of just constantly bitching? Or is that your hobby, bitching endlessly on the internet about your red waifu?

You know what? I agree with you as a soviet player.
Now lets all just drop the subject since bitching and moaning about it didn't bring anything positive to the last thread.

None of those are snowflake. There were many cossack formations, and assault gun regiments. So these lists are still just generic briefings.

Now, if we had a briefing for the 8th Self Propelled Artillery Brigade (markings were an eagle insignia, whole brigade outfitted with SU-76s with T-70 command vehicles), and briefing orgnaization, motivation/training, and special rules to reflect them, then we'd have a snowflake briefing there. Same thing if there was a 338th Heavy Self Propelled Artillery Regiment (all ISU-152s), with say a rule that allows them to move and fire, and possibly Confident Veteran. The 338th are even represented in BF's decals for ISUs; their insignia is the line with a perpendicular arrow pointing down.

While I would love to publish lists I'm not actually the guy who owns FoW so it's not actually possible for me to "do something about" Battlefront's lack of regard for the Soviets. I am researching the defence of moscow for the homebrew discord though so maybe go fuck yourself.

They'll take a look at homebrew lists with references. People keep making them… for non-Soviet armies. Easier to find info.

>all the differentiated tankovy battalions
What do you mean?
>cavalry
Which the German's don't get either.
>paratroopers
See LW. You don't need a special list for them.
>Partisan
Not really what FoW is built around. See the Raiding lists. Or rather, the practically total absence of them in play.
>off the top of my head
Yeah, it shows. Whine whine, some arbitrary metric doesn't make me feel good.

Oh look, it's highly self-serving snowflake definition user.

The only list you can make with Barbarossa is a tankovy battalion fitted out with T-34s; BT, T-26/28/35 battalions are absent from the book, and KVs don't exist at all.

Germans don't get cav but they have twice the lists, I'm sure they'll be sobbing themselves to sleep.

Paratroopers are an obvious list to add if you need more ideas for guys who're different.

Partisans do appear in LW, and were an issue throughout the war.

And your last sentence isn't even intelligible so grats on proving your retardation I guess fampai.

Do any companies make later T-55 models in 15mm? Tournament in February so I want the bulk of my army ready to go the day the book comes out in Jan.

>KV's don't exist
They do, though. You just don't get them as a compulsory platoon.
>Cav
It was one of the ones you specified. In the meantime, most of the German lists are very slight variations on one another. The tank lists particularly.
>need more ideas
They don't, though. BF designers aren't as precious as Soviet players. You can have a set of FoW games that nicely encapsulates Barbarossa.
>Partisans
They have a token list that's basically a Strelkovy, for the obvious reasons.
>issue
Yeah, but not in FoW. Resistance and partisan lists are almost totally overlooked.
>last sentence
Hey, you're terrible at text comprehension as well as game design.

I bought Old Glory T-55s, but they are not the new update. I think I am going to leave them as the standard version to stand in for T-55s across all theatres. If you want a modern T-55 I believe QRF has a version with the laser rangefinder and Turret armor and a version with ERA.

>I take personal offence at a game I play having flaws: the post.
If all you took from actual problems there are with the soviet side is "soviet players complain too much" then you're fucking retarded.

>actual problems
Novelty list selection options not being one of them.

I want to show you all my Dad's FoW collection. He organizes them in these plastic containers like this and stacks them. And he also has quite a bit of terrain too.

Here's the closet as it currently stands, he also has all the books that have ever been published for the game.

Wow I'm jelly

Impressive. Most impressive.

I wish I had a cool fow dad...

The BT, T-26/28/35/etc and the cavalry lists are in Rising Sun.

KVs are in barbarossa, along with a lead-lease tank battalion.

The Barbarossa digital lists also feature some of the rising sun stuff with Barbarossa options.

Did you even open these books or are you just making shit up?

so
If I'm west german and is possibly facing 6 hinds or 4 harriers:
Will I be fine with two gepards or do I need more aa?

Bring 4 gepards at the minimum. Be sure to look at the Gepard card. Radar will give you a 40" range. Against hinds and harriers gepards are sufficient, but if you plan on facing frogfoot or A-10, some missile AA (i use fliegerfausts) is helpful.

How about two rolands instead of two extra gepards?
Or is that a bad idea?
>I just want a greater variety of models
>and Rolands are cool