Objectively most successful race/faction within a given setting

Depends on how you manifest it, and how far you take it. If it means you hold yourself to some standards then it shouldn't be too bad, but when mentioned as a flaw odds are it's been taken much, much furtehr than that.

I think you might just be a projecting retard

I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed:

And on the pedestal these words appear:
'My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!'
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

The only constants are death and change. If you spend too much effort trying to hold on to what you had, you aren't ready to grab the next big thing coming up.

What purpose does pride serve?

>Time ends everything, even the most magnificent things
>Therefore nobody should ever feel the urge to accomplish anything or strife for greatness

You should seriously fight against your nihilistic urges. Nature and time strife towards chaos and entropy, humanity is the only known force to work towards order and perfection. It may be a battle that's destined to be lost some day, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be fought.

An individual that is proud of himself or his people will fight or work a thousand times better than one who feels nothing for his people, or even shame.

Pride is the force that keeps nations united.

Humans are the only known force to define order and perfection too.

Maybe not seeing the beauty and right in entropy is a human failing...

Pride isn't the be-all-end-all of motivation. It's just the one you choose when there isn't something better

> appeal to emotion
Uh huh, tell me more.

People are confusing Pride and Hubris again.
You can be proud and humble at the same time. Hubris, on the other hand, is an actual flaw.

You're sounding like a final villain mate.

It's kinda like white pride. White people did almost everything worth doing either first or vastly better, but trying to claim that you get credit for it is daft.

Pride can also motivate you to be constantly testing yourself to prove your superiority.

Pride can make you push on where others would quit, saying that they've done enough and "Second place is still respectable".

Pride can also lead an inferior force to dash itself against a superior one, when it has no chance, because it cannot admit that what it needs to do to get better is to change.

Humility is the killer of motivation. Saying that others are just as good or deserving as you even when they don't perform as well or contribute as much, creates a weakness that others will take advantage of - even though they are weaker than you.

Humility can destroy ones faith in oneself as much as it can destroy others faith in you. When you constantly say you aren't that great, others come to believe it is the truth and eventually you yourself come to believe it.

Essentially, you need to start using more specific words like Hubris and Humility to describe different types of Pride and Modesty, to distinguish the negative aspects of each from the positive.

> Modern

Ever since the French Revolution when the ideals and values of the nobility were demonized.

that's not what that means.

Pride has two different meanings, friend.

Pride in the sense of confidence and love is a good thing. Pride in the sense of overestimating your abilities and trusting yourself too much is destructive.

You can be both humble and proud of yourself, as long as that pride is earned and of things that are true.

You fail to understand. Who else would define order and perfecion? We are THE ONLY FORCE in this existance except chaos. You want to see chaos and entropy as perfect, because it is the most powerful driving force there has been to date. That's not necesarilly true though.

Humans are the only known force to have ever fought against the power of time and disorder which lowers everything to dust. This fight is inherent to our existance. You claim it is a flawed vision to fight against time? Maybe. But maybe chaos is the most powerful force because nobody has managed to outsmart it yet. I don't think it's impossible.

What is your alternative though? Following your line of thought, any action that strives against nature is futile. Should we all collectively stand still and die of hunger? Should we let our existance silently drift away into oblivion?

Chaos and death are constant and apparently unbeatable. But if these concepts are given, what do we lose in fighting against them? We can only win by trying, for if we fail we get the same as those who wouldn't dare to try.

Only the first is the correct definition the other is called hubris, slave morality plebs redefined the word to imply something bad.

This is what I meant. I'd define that "bad pride" as arrogance though.

Humans are the chaos, the true state of the universe is to be in a perfect motionless equilibrium, existence is like the ripples that scar the beautiful surface of a placid lagoon, there is no reason to fight or hate entropy, it should be embraced and glorified.

>Humans are the only known force to have ever fought against the power of time and disorder which lowers everything to dust.

Except for every other being with a sense of self preservation, which to varying degrees means basically everythign alive. Metabolism and reproduction are both acts of locally staving off entropy.

And if we're getting technical enough to talk of entropy, then let's be a bit less sloppy about chaos.

Everything being motionless is a state of much lower entropy than everything being in motion.

having a different name for it doesn't change the fact that it comes from the same place, you goof.
Your definition is basically "Hubris is pride that's gone too far" and we're saying that there is a danger to pride because we call it hubris when it ends bad,

Pedantry only goes so far when we're talking about metaphysical concepts you fucking ass wagon.

>the true state of the universe is to be in a perfect motionless equilibrium
If your argument is against human perceptions of the world, you're not allowed to cherrypick a few human perceptions—like truth and perfection—to use yourself when you don't think we'll notice.

I can't not use human words and concepts to express myself to you.

Entropy is to be glorified on the grounds of its fatality and inevitablity, that was more or less what was meant by true and perfect.

Do you want your setting realist or not?! Fuck!
>Greece
>Rome
>Napoleonic France
>Tzarist Russia (bonus points for political intrigue)
>Germany
>Germany 2: Electric Boogaloo
>United States (WIP)

Trump won thanks to libtard pride.

To be fair, idealogical consistency is not one of their strengths.

>lol, I've got the most powerful piece of military hardware in the galaxy, that holds at least a million personal and cost trillions of dollars to develop and build.
>Let's not do anything to protect it.

Pride is a hell of a drug.

>bad writing is a hell of a drug
FTFY

To be fair, every American Political party has a problem with ideological consistency. Libs hate on right to refuse service until a singer refuses to perform in an anti gay state. Repubs love religious freedom until you're brown. Libs love tolerance and understanding until you're not oppressed enough. Republicans will support your gun rights and help you get legal counsel if the cops fuck w/ you for having your conceal carry until your a black guy that gets fucked up for having a concealed carry

This is what happens when instead of many issue driven parties all your have are two bloated coalitions only really kept together by fear of each other.

Dear god this thread sounds like a debate between anime villains.

Or maybe, we're the first race.....

But that's how reality works, friendo.

Truth is not a human perception, it's an objective feature of propositions.

If you use the Etherscope virtue / vice system, national pride, also called patriotism, is a great flaw. It requires the patriot refuse goods or services produced outside their home country.

kekeke in your arrogance of self you see us humans as some separate being astride the face of the universe when we are in fact just a tiny part of the whole
so much of our cultural bullshit is just lies we tell ourselves to prop up the notion that we are somehow apart and above all else

>The true state of the universe is to be in a perfect motionless equilibrium

Wrong. If that sentence where true, the universe wouldn't exist in the first place.

Existance in itself is flawed, we're the rule, not the exception.

>Tee hee I'm so smart because I I know I'm nothing
They are noble lies, the kind you need to raise yourself up on the currents of idealism.

>I utterly lack reading comprehension and reasoning ability so I'll assume it's a nihilistic strawman that I'll flawlessly defeat without breaking a sweat
There's nothing noble about pretending that you're some special snowflake chosen one that's magically above and beyond nature with the duty of taming the universe to bring "order" to "chaos".

Crows can learn to use tools, primates have begun to domesticate dogs like early humans, and humans are completely reliant on nature as much as we try to delude ourselves into a fantasy of seperation by packaging things in clean neat wrappers in markets that you drive to.

We're not nothing, we're part of everything, and forgetting that is the height of self-centered delusion.

Just look at how the Second Schleswig War turned out for the Danes. They vastly overestimated the potency of their own army after attaining a flimsy victory in the first one. Pride is a very real flaw.

Or the state of the french army at the start of WW2.

I think you are projecting a little bit too hard there friendo.

The point of thing's like that isn't to say that everything is pointless so you shouldn't even try. It to give you some perspective on things.

Fuck, there are civilisations that rose and fell in the amazon rain forest that we now know next to nothing about because nature has consumed nearly all that was left by them. However at the time those who lived there must have been certain that there way of life would last forever and would never be bettered let alone slip in to the oblivion of time so thoroughly that no one would even know they had ever been.

It's all about perspective and more importantly, its about not taking anything for granted. Many a great civilisation has been brought low by complacency born of a certainty that nothing will ever change because they are the best.

So yes, pride does come before a fall, it will always come before the fall because if you had a little less pride you might have seen the fall coming and avoided it. Instead of being so sure of yourself that you didn't see it coming or worse, ignored it until it was much too late.

Pride in the accomplishments of others, your ancestors, without accomplishing anything yourself and being carried by their hard work.

Doesn't work so well with a lot of fantasy races like elves, who live millennia, but the idea is there.