Let's be honest here: Why do people say the Culture could take on the 40k universe...

Don't the Mind's brains exist in some kind of extradimensional space outside the normal universe?

> Why is no attention ever paid to Chaos (especially Slaanesh) and how really fucking easily they could corrupt all the trillions of mindless hedonists that exist in the Culture? The amount of havoc Chaos would wreak on the Culture would be hard to even put into words.

Simply put, Slaneesh is kind of quaint by Culture standards.

The Chaos gods are very powerful, but they don't automatically possess and mindwipe everyone that has an emotion that aligns with a god. Otherwise, any Space Marine that took pride in their kill would instantly explode into a Bloodthirster and nothing would ever get done. The Chaos gods, for all their power, need to be invited in. Rituals need to be performed, the cult of Chaos needs to be introduced and spread, or be brought along with by people who are already worshippers.

This is really, really easy in 40k. Chaos can easy subvert local religions, or just offer power to people who live in abject poverty.

The Culture doesn't have any reason to give a shit about Slaneesh. She Who Thirsts doesn't have anything to offer them. Culture citizens are already effectively immortal, can get genofixed to have glands that produce drugs on command, usually switch sex once or twice in their lives to see how the other half lives, and generally have every need or desire they could imagine provided to them before they even ask for it by machines who run the whole show.

Who good is power? The humans don't need any more. They are only vaguely aware of the fact that they are technically involved in a war that spans the galaxy, because the Minds and automated ships take care of that for them.

Knowledge? Perfection? They can just ask a Mind to provide any information or product they need, and it will already be up to such an unrealistically high standard that a human literally wouldn't notice if it was any better.

[cont]

All cases are interesting :

> the Minds have a presence in the warp, and can be corrupted

after a few decades/centuries, Minds start to fall to Chaos, creating devastingly powerful chaos constructs, mostly affiliated to Tzeentch.
Imagine the neat, efficient and thoughtful GSVs converted into godlike monstrosties, with a warp presence so enormous that each one is worth billions of human followers and pretty much a minor god in itself.
They have warp powers in addition of their fuck-me-its-so-powerful technology.

Humanity is doomed, Eldars are doomed, Taus are doomed, after some time, tyranids get crushed, and eventually, Orkz are destroyed

> Minds can touch/interact with the Warp

some might fall to Chaos, and wreck more shit than any other army before them, but considering how paranoid Minds are in the books, I think they would quickly identify what the can or cannot do with the Warp while staying safe.
Eventually, they learn to use the warp better than anyone before them except the Old Ones, they build their own Mind-designed webway and from this they slowly try to un-fuck the galaxy.

> Minds have no presence in the Warp

pretty much the same as the second one, they are still incredibly powerful, and will work to make the galaxy more like the Culture, thay won't have warp travel, but without the threat of corruption and the possibility of engineering races who do have a presence in the warp, its only a matter of time before even Orkz become huge green philosophers and hippies

Sex, drugs and rock and roll? Already available to the Culture in spades, designed for perfection by intelligences that man cannot comprehend.

Anyone who really is into the chains and spikes subculture already has that going on anyway. Its not taboo.

In a very real way, the concept of 'excess' to the Culture is so totally beyond normal that the word has no meaning there. Nothing they do they really consider excessive, therefore Slaneesh has no foothold with them.

A Chaos cult on a Culture ship would be like 3-4 guys who no one takes seriously because they are hawking cheap shit instead of the premium stuff everyone can get for free. And the Minds would send a knife missile to kill them all 10 days before they decided to start planning an actual demon summoning, because the Mind predicted that they would become a threat to the ship and removed them before they became a problem.

It would be a total non-issue. If Chaos wants to do anything to the Culture, they will have to straight up invade it in force. Aw which point they are dealing with a level of technology that makes the Dark Age of Technology humanity look like fucking Radio Shack.

You're definitely underestimating the mind/soul-fuckery aspect of Chaos here. Slaanesh is so much more than merely sex and drugs - the appeal of Slaanesh (and the other Chaos gods really) is to experience something far beyond that of anything normal life has to offer by forfeiting your very soul to a near-omnipotent God of lust, desire, fulfillment, vanity, pride, and so many more things.

Take for example the average cultist of Slaanesh. They're so fucking over-stimulated on raptuorous agony and sanity shattering pleasure that they seek in vain every moment of their lives for newer heights of sensory experience. Consider the Dark Eldar who deliberately torture themselves for hundreds of years under the careful guidance of the Homonuculi just to actually /feel/ anything because of how burnt out their souls are from literal thousands of years of experiecing both pleasures and pain literally beyond mortal comprehension.

These guys are not just sense-freaks. They're fucking Cenobites on steroids. That's what the average Slaanesh cultist is like, and that's what the average Culture member has in store for them - if they really desire it. And boy is Slaanesh good at convincing people that they really do desire it - after all, this is what happened AN ENTIRE FUCKING RACE comprising trillions of people ie the Eldar. And that's just Slaanesh we're talking about here.

Tzeentch would know better than to mess with the Minds.

The basis of all higher level technology in the Culture is something called the Grid. Basically, there are an uncountable number of dimensions in all directions, wrapped around each other like an onion. The barrier between these dimensions is a series of lines of energy called the Grid. Minds tap into the grid directly for raw energy, and manipulate it for FTL and all sorts of shit. For example, a weapon called Gridfire punches a tiny hole in the Grid to a neighboring dimension that is literally nothing but an effectively infinite amount of antimatter, and letting that spill over into our dimension annihilating fucking everything until the hole plugs itself.

The moment the Minds detect that an extra-dimensional force is dicking around with their citizens, they are going to shoot back. They have a lot of safeguards on their tech to prevent their grid-manipulating technology for causing irrepairable damage to this dimension. If they decide they don't care what happens tot he warp, they will just shoot the whole Immaterium full of holes until the Chaos gods don't exist anymore.

Just my two cents to everyone saying the culture would make it. The eldar pre fall were a society similar to the culture if you think about it. Their every desire was possible and soon that spiraled out of control throughout thousands of years. Eventually the culture would become like the eldar

Yeah, but what can Slaneesh offer to someone who can already experience the absolute maximum amount of physical pleasure that a human body can achieve just by thinking about it?

Everything Slaneesh can offer, the Culture already has available in some form or another for FREE. No soul trading, no self torture or nothing.

Life sucks for humans in 40k. Its easy to sell escapism and pleasure to the downtrodden in the grim dark future of only war.

But life in the culture is already fucking awesome. That, and they trust the machines for everything, so if the Minds tell the humans that Slaneesh's drugs are poison they will believe it implicitly.

For Slaneesh to have influence over people, they first have to give a shit about Slaneesh. And there isn't any reason for the Culture to do so.

The Minds would intervene to prevent things from going that far.

There's no reason for people to do a lot of incredibly self-destructive things in our own society, yet people do them. Sometimes simply *because* they're self-destructive, or because someone else *doesn't* want them to do the self-destructive things.

I think you are underestimating the concept of "corruption" here and forgetting that there is a literal malevolent god who wants to do the corrupting.

That implies that any kind of hedonism has no choice but to go Hellraiser, when despite being around for so long that the Culture doesn't even have records that Earth was ever a thing they are nothing like that.

That's like saying that Humans advance technologically faster and faster each generation, therefore the IoM doesn't exist because a they would already be up to, and past, their previous tech level during the height of their empire by now. Because there is only ever one 'allowed' outcome to a situation, 40k canon doesn't exist.

No idea how that culture thing works, but the general idea of Chaos and Slaanesh in particular is that it works outside the constraints of reality. The culture seems to still be limited by the logic of a completely physical world.

Effectively all the excess and hedonism of the physical world is like a heroin addiction: taking the heroin is not a problem. Being addicted to heroin is not a problem. Building a tolerance to heroin through prolonged use while addicted to it IS the problem. Suddenly you want something you can no longer have. Once the culture has gone the way of all eldar and got bored of their own hedonism they are going to crave the next best thing: an experience that is physically impossible. Enter Slaanesh.

Since chaos defies definition, it is inherently unknowable, it cannot be accounted for, it cannot be predicted. It's very existance (or lack of it) will drive any sophisticated logical engine into madness, as it now has more variables to account for that cannot exist yet still affect the outcome of everything. It would be caught in an eternal logic loop to find the perfect solution to an inherently imperfect system.

That's why the only effective defense against chaos in WH40k is pure, unquestioning, unyielding, uncompromising and utterly irrational faith.

>trillions of mindless hedonists

All puny humans/transhumans/xenos/meat-things with zero control over the Culture. They're pets.

The Culture is it's Minds, which are soulless AI and would be an anethaema to Chaos. Coupled with the fact that a single Very Fast Picket ship could take out every Chaos warship in existence without breaking a sweat, and yeah, the Culture would curbstomp the 40k universe.

not really no. You underestimate the Minds, as well as the freedom and lack of want.

To save everyone some time - this fanfic - archiveofourown.org/works/649448/chapters/1181375 - 157 chapters - and the associated threads linked in the introdictipn (~300 more pages) sort of cover this.

There are some assumptions about how chaos works, and how gridfire and the like works. You have to combine these rules for the question to even make sense. Either way the minds are ok.

Even assuming total-corrupting powers of chaos, minds have build-in self-repair and hard-trigger dead mans switches against spooky changes. Minds will notice and act accordingly.

you are severely overestimating the influence of chaos on a person in the imperium, while at the same time underestimating the strength of your average culture citizen, society. drone, let alone mind.

Also, indistuingishable VR exists in the culture, and people upload if they want impossible stuff.

look up infinite fun space. Minds like that sort of challenge, they spend most of their time dealing with physically impossible simulations.

I brought up the Eldar for a reason. The Eldar were almost exactly, point-for-point, like the Culture, pre-fall. Every need fulfilled, every desire taken care of, except over the course of thousands of years they got bored of all the sameyness. Got bored of how many restrictions there were on what was and wasn't morally permissible, bored of how little of life they were "really" allowed to experience, and eventually wanted so much more - as mortals often do.

I'm not going to describe in full detail the Fall of the Eldar but it's essentially what I'm saying would inevitably happen to the Culture - Maybe over ten, or a hundred, or thousands of years, the Culture would fall into the clutches of constantly seeking new pleasures and new highs, new novelties and new senses. Consider the fact that people in the Culture can live for hundreds of years. Things can get awfully boring for a being that has seen the same old things a hundred times over. Then you have to consider the fact that the Eldar's Fall happened entirely by accident, without any careful planning by a sentient malevolent God helping it along the way. The Eldar gave birth to Slaanesh through millenia of Hellraiser murder-orgies. Now imagine how easy it would be if there actually was a sentient, all-corrupting influence whose sole purpose and whose entire being in fact is centered around seduction and addiction helping this happen. If it happened by accident to the Eldar if it can certainly happen on purpose to the Culture.

yeah, that's pretty much how I saw it too, the Minds are just too paranoid to even try to use something they cannot completely understand or manipulate.

To add the Culture to 40k, you have to add all tech fluff, because the ships and the Minds just don't work without it, and if you give the Minds their big shiny toys, they are pretty much invincible

That bring another question though : would Chaos be able to use the same kind of tech ? the Grid and the way Minds maintain their consciousness requires ungodly amount of computational power, and Chaos never struck me as particularly tech-savy, they are pretty much at the same level as the Imperium, except they can use warp travel safely

The problem is each experience that is taken to excess contributes to slaneesh's power. If the whole culture is based on excess slaneesh's power would be taken beyond almost anything. Also what you should keep in mind is slaneesh didnt exist before the fall, the eldar created it by the excess they lived in. All the tech and firepower in the world cant stop the entire culture being dissolved into the warp

>That's why the only effective defense against chaos in WH40k is pure, unquestioning, unyielding, uncompromising and utterly irrational faith.

Not true. A simple change of lifestyle makes a big difference.

Humanity has a bad track record of "knowing" what to do about Chaos. The Emperor thought that just making sure no one but him knew Chaos was a threat would prevent Chaos from doing anything, an that got him killed.

The Imperium that followed decided that unquestioning faith is all that it takes to beat Chaos, and they are regularly up to their ass in Chaos cults. Why? Because Imperial citizens don't question matters of faith AND they are not educated on Chaos, so all a Chaos cult has to do is say "Tzen Cha is a little known saint of the Emperor, worshiping him is totally cool. Look, I am wearing an aquila and everything, you can trust me" and slowly ramp up the chaosy parts of the church meets over time. And that shit works with such alarming regularity that the Inquisition still doesn't have time to catch all of it.

But you know who does pretty well against Chaos? The Tau, whose culture minimizes all of the influences that Chaos normally would feed on because indivudal wants and desires don't matter in the face of the Greater Good.

But lets ignore the Tau, even. After all, they have weak souls.

Lets talk about the Interex, a coalition of humans and aliens discovered during the great crusade who openly knew what Chaos was, taught their citizens about it, and knew the signs of Chaos corruption and why it was a stupid idea.
The Interex didn't have any fucking problems with Chaos. In fact, they recognized the signs of Chaos corruption already spreading through the Primarchs, tried to warn the Imperials, and Chaos had to come up with an excuse to bomb them into oblivion to keep them from averting the entire Horus Heresy in a week.

Chaos isn't really that strong. The Imperium is just really fucking bad at dealing with Chaos as a threat.

Kind of what this user is saying, too. Chaos is powered, fundamentally, by the emotions, wants, desires, and feelings of all sentient beings. (or at least those that have souls like humans)

The amount of excess and decadence generated by the Culture would power up Slaanesh to such an absurd degree that it would probably open up multiple different reality-melting Warpstorms the size of or even greater than the Eye of Terror across the Culture's universe, from which who knows how many countless trillions of daemons and black crusades would spew forth from. Unless the Culture can find a way to curb the general pleasure-seeking behaviors of all their trillions upon trillions of citizens, every single act of self gratification carried out by every citizen would simply serve to further destabilize the line between the physical universe and the realm of the Warp wherein the Chaos gods reign supreme as essentially omnipotent beings.

That's where the looping part comes in: You keep playing for infinity with the simulation, making you unable to act, as acting would require to come to an imperfect solution. If you accept the imperfect solution, you stopped calculating and by doing so accepted chaos as a variable: Chaos has won. The correct solution is to ignore the chaos factor as if it never existed, because you have a firm set of variables that you believe are without fault, even if all logic tells you otherwise, allowing you to define the chaos element by your standards, thereby replacing the chaos of the immaterium with the chaos of your own making, which is slightly more survivable.

Who gets to decide what is excess and what isn't?

Wouldn't you say that enlightened monks take giving up all worldly desires and goods to an excessive extreme? OH FUCK SLANEESH CORRUPTION OUT OF NOWHERE LOLOLOLOL

>it's another chaos vs something else setting
Chaos can either be retardedly powerful or underpowered based on its writer and their perspective

Chaos at its strongest can cause anything material to decay, any thinking entity to break or any soul to shatter with the equivalent of a blink at the same time it can be so weak as to be resisted by a single individual.

This is a great point! This is why I dont like slaneesh his claim to power is fairly broad and undefined. It is generally only self serving excess for pleasure in 40k

Also chaos is a supposed to paradoxical and confusing so it isn't really quantifiable

> Hey, Hey guys, I just thought of a brilliant way to kill Slannesh
>If we redefine the word Excess so that it can't possibly exist, then Slannesh will have nothing to feed on.

I know the Warp is a realm of pure thought and all, but you can't just kill it by closing your eyes and screaming "I don't believe in ghosts! They aren't real" at the top of your lungs. That's how the whole Heresy started in the first place.

Honestly, I never saw Chaos as being that hard to understand. They are, in fact, pretty damn predictable. While it doesn't follow the same rules as our universe, the Warp very clearly follows a set of rules in how it functions.

The Minds would analyze Chaos pretty comprehensively without that much difficulty. The only real problem is getting data in the first place to make their simulations.

Speaking of which: anyone's best guess on how long it would take the Minds the simulate a warp-god specifically designed to be the alpha predator that eats Chaos gods?

Excess herein meaning excessive self-gratification in the form of carnal pleasure, vanity, and over-indulgent behavior. However, it also means the more subtle emotions of pride and vanity. Even experiencing the tiniest hint of pride at your own chastity is something that Slaanesh can potentially tap into, as has been stated in some of the novels.

The point of the 40k universe's warp-magic-fuckery is that Chaos corruption can only really be warded off by either not having a warp-signature (as in the Tau), extreme discipline (as in the Eldar), unquestioning and irrational faith (as in the Imperium) or just being utterly and completely oblivious (as in the Orks)

So the minds create Malal? Badass.

You can't redefine something that was never defined in the first place.

Excess is, by fucking definition, a relative concept. Its not something set in stone. Hope, Anger, and despair are all universal benchmarks even if what causes them in a given individual varies, but excess literally cannot exist without a benchmark to define what is a non-excessive amount of something.

Don't blame me because 40k lore is poorly written.

Okay I was with this fanfic up until at one point they just stated in one sentence that they stole the Warding sigils from the Grey Knights to protect their ship's minds from being corrupted

That's not how it works you fucking heretics, the wards and sigils are literally powered and given their protective qualities by the GK's faith in the Emperor - the Minds would still be completely unprotected unless they actually started having faith

Chaos is nothing compared to the Culture. The Minds are quite literally faster. If you uploaded scrapcode into a Culture mind somehow, it would be able to instantly circumvent it by just expunging the effected data. For example, Culture GSV ship battles occur so fast that you can't even observe them, for all intents and purposes they're instantaneous because they think so fast. Hell I'm pretty sure Culture Minds actually think faster than the speed of light. Minds think faster and act faster than Chaos taint can physically spread.

Never
The warp is powered by souls, emotions and thoughts, if anything they will end up powering one of the pre existing chaos gods

Just like how the Eldar powered an existing god instead of creating a new one, right?

This thread is silly
GUYS
THE WARP IS LITERALLY POWERED BY THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS
LOGIC IS ONE OF TZEENTCHS DISCIPLINES
LITERALLY DO THE MATH

Slaanesh already existed, and Slaanesh created itself.

>simulate a warp-god specifically designed to be the alpha predator that eats Chaos gods?

So in other words the Minds end up inadvertently creating Malal and in doing so consign the entire universe to an eternity of anarchy and endless self-destruction lmao

Literally a minor god given more power and a new name
Everyone at one point has thought of everything
The eldar pretty much just put their faith into an entity aligned with their beliefs

Khorne's domain is battle, and he loses fights all the time.

Really makes you think.

And yet, Slannesh came to be, despite the fact that the Eldar had pretty much stopped giving a shit at that point.

The very fact that Slannesh sprung from a society that had abandoned the concept of excess, shows that there is some sort of unsaid universal benchmark for excess in the 40k universe. The Culture could pull semantics all they want, at the end of the day, excess is excess as defined by the unwritten laws of 40k.

Slaanesh didn't come to be. The cults that "created" Slaanesh were in fact started by Slaanesh. Chaos Gods and Chaos in general also don't have creation/birth dates really. The Path of Heaven shows that the warp exists like an ocean, and the four Gods lived int he deepest reaches of it. It was the actions of the materium that drew them up from the depths.

Fuck off Carnac.

Khorne cares not whence the blood flows...

Chaos is does not obey physical rules, hence there is no concept of relativity to it. You cannot be faster than something that does and does not exist in time. Chaos obeys the rules of the immaterium the same way a tourist obeys the local customs: With no concept of why they exist, how they work and a fanatical drive to interpret them in the most asinine way possible. When you start your incredibly fast thought process, chaos takes a few eternities to come up with a single myriad of answers then delivers them to you before, during or after your thought process started, while it has changed the question into something else.

The only way to win against chaos is not to play with chaos.

>Everything is normal
>EXCESS OF NORMALITY
>No emotions
>EXCESS OF EMOTIONLESSNESS SLAANESH CORRUPTS NECRONS
>Khorne doesn't personally fight or EXCESS OF VIOLENCE
>Tzneetch only plans because EXCESS OF ACTION
>Nurgle must occasionally bathe or EXCESS OF FILTH

>Implying the only way to win against Chaos isn't to have faith in the Emperor

Already talked about

Do not even think about bringing up that "Chaos can pop in and literally Retcon events" piece of Lore.

That is a shit piece of Lore Made by Lazy, High-off-their-Asses, Writers that adds nothing to the series besides allow them to cover any Lazy, High-off-their-asses, mistakes that they make when writing shit. It kicks up the story for the sake of being confusing and mysterious with no real point. That is the objectively worst bit of fluff that is currently still in 40k.

Having blind faith in the emperor is the very definition of not playing with chaos, oh mighty -I-.

I think its safe to say we have sufficiently answered OPs question.

OP wanted wanted to know why The Culture was said to be able to resist Chaos, and that's been explained again and again. Meanwhile, the only counter argument that's been put forth is just "B-but, they're gods!"

As if that has done them any good in their OWN setting, much less against a more advanced and better equipped one.

Except in the books, scrapcode travels at an observable speed, so you're full of shit.

It's been established that the average citizens of the Culture (although powerless) would be very susceptible to Chaos and its influences

The real question though, which hasn't really been answered, is whether or not the Minds could potentially be corrupted.

Be'lakor in WHFB rewrote reality and the timeline several times to ensure the rise of Archaon.

Also he said that time and death are nothing to beings like himself. Then he summoned temporal clones of a Skaven abomination from the future and the past.

Personally, I think it's neat. Anyways back to 40K.

The Echo of the First Murder, End of Empires, Drach'nyen was born when the first sentient man killed his brother in cold blood. The first murder. It's birth echoed through space and time, it spread out its tendrils and touched the minds of every man, woman, and child that lived, live, and will ever live. All humans across all worlds and time felt its touch upon them.

When Drach'nyen opened its physical eyes for the first time it found itself not on ancient Earth, its birth place, but in the Webwaythousands of years into the future on the scent of a being that is known as the anathema.

That kind of fluff is Metal, dude.

Which books? You do realise entire attack fleets have entered the warp and then left it BEFORE they entered?

The warp generally adheres loosely to the rules of the materium when interacting with it, which gives the impression of being predictable, controllable even, but it also breaks them at the same time and occasionally it completely ignores every single physical rule and does whatever it wants. That's how the thing gets you eventually: you think you have it figured out, open yourself to it, and then come the dildos.

>The warp generally adheres loosely to the rules of the materium when interacting with it

The upper layer, mind you. The lower layers are absolute mayhem.

The Culture is run by AIs that aren't affected by the warp. They would engineer their races to be like the Tau.

>Yeah, but what can Slaneesh offer to someone who can already experience the absolute maximum amount of physical pleasure that a human body can achieve just by thinking about it?

For one thing, Slaanesh can offer beyond the absolute maximum amount of human pleasure. For Slaanesh Cultists life is so fucking awesome they stop thinking it's awesome.

Yes, Culture citizens can get this for free, but Slaanesh can convince them it's not enough and offer them even more. The Culture has perfect drugs, but Slaanesh can give perfect drugs +1. That's what excess is about. If a drug fueled sex party is normal, Slaanesh goes beyond a drug fueled sex party.

Oh dear emperor, did you just put "AI" and "unaffected by the warp" into the same sentence? Are you mad? Do you not know where you are?

AI is, by default, unaffected by the warp. Chaos has to go out of their way to find ways to get a foothold in AIs.

A robot exposed to demonic forces can become possessed, but so can a snowglobe. The fact that its an AI doesn't make it any more vulnerable than anything else.

Chaos can't just posses shit willy-nilly, and if a Mind has fallen into the hands of Chaos something so unbelievably unlikely has already happened that its not worth guessing what will happen next because Horus was the Emperor all along.

What are Men of Iron?

Not the culture

Robots that turned on humanity for reasons unrelated to Chaos?

>We are immune to chaos.
>Yes, other people have said the same thing before us and then fell to chaos, but we are different.
>Now let me tell you about the glory of chaos undivided.

What keeps the Necrons from turning to Chaos? Is it something about Necrodermis?

Necrons aint got no souls

Good to know that The Emperor is the first and most powerful champion of the dark gods, right user?

Well, thing is, without a soul a snowglobe and an AI are equally capable of being possessed. Equally difficult, but still equal. It's difficult enough that a daemon wouldn't bother with a snowglobe, but would readily infect power AI,

That and I presume being so incredibly bitter and full of hatred that they feel like blanks and it just kills any Warp vibes... but it's probably more the Necrodermis thing.

Honestly, GW can't decide what the fuck to do with the Necrons anymore.

One week the Necrons have technology that makes anything warp-related cease to exist if it gets too close, and this is the only reason the Eye of Terror hasn't gotten any bigger. The next, a single low tier demon destroys an entire Tomb World and the necrons are powerless to stop it.

Did you just imply that the God Emperor of Mankind is not in fact a God, but a champion of another God? What are you? Some kind of Tech-Priest?

But Chaos can possess swords and armor and shit?

Don't forget C'tan shards being able to destroy entire worlds on their own, but also can be destroyed by a super heavy tank.

It's not so much possessing swords and armor but rather daemons choosing to inhabit them, or in some cases being eternally bound to them. All cases of chaos possessing inanimate objects is just daemons being stuffed into them like poltergeists.

One of them did turn for reasons related to Chaos. The Tabula Myriad was a DaoT AI that through calculations discovered that humanity will bring about this destruction of all reality by inviting in the beings of the Warp. It concluded the only solution is to wipe out humanity. It led Iron Men armies for a while until it was defeated.

It surfaced again in during the HH. What should be noted about it that it and its robot servants were immune to the Chaos Scrap Code and taint by shielding themselves with absolute truths and calculus.

That actually raises an interesting point.

Everything the necrons have is explicitly technology based. Shouldn't the Culture be able to build big fuckoff anti-warp pylons too? Culture ships are more than large enough to carry around one of those each and never have to worry about Chaos again.

It has, after all, be established that sufficiently advanced technology CAN tell to warp to go eat shit and cry on facebook.

What about that mega-Titan that was a daemon engine?

Or daemon engines in general?

Chaos isn't really a 'force' that can be beaten, it's just the base rules of the universe.

40k is designed with deliberately perverse metaphysics to create a world in which bad things become necessary for survival.
Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.

To argue that sci-fi race X could totally beat chaos is to miss the point entirely. Chaos is part of the 40k universe specifically to explain why something like The Culture doesn't exist. The Old Ones tried it, Necrons tried it, Eldar tried it, Humans tried it and none of them succeeded because that's the point of the setting.

It's nothing to do with power levels.

Daemon engines are powered by actual daemons though, they're just physical shells with occult shit that allows them to be inhabited by spirits of the Warp

But the Necrons almost beat Chaos. Admittedly, it was probably at the cost of all life with souls, but still.

Well yeah, so why could a daemon not just climb inside an AI in the same way?

>The next, a single low tier demon destroys an entire Tomb World and the necrons are powerless to stop it.

Low tier? It was a gigantic daemon prince that ate the molten core of the world. He took the form of a huge monstrous worm with a Warp rift for a head that it used to flood the core with daemons. Then the daemon prince changed the layout of the tunnels to isolate the Necrons into small groups that were overrun by the ceaseless daemon tide.

How is this low tier?

>Calling writing stupid in a threat about the culture and 40k

You seem to have taken a wrong turn mate...

Right. Perverse metaphysics in action: the only way to beat chaos is for life to be destroyed entirely.

Life can exist without souls. The Necrons, AIs, and Pariahs are all evidence of this.

Daemons can't freely stay in the physical realm unless there's something special to keep them bound to it like a nearby Warpstorm / rift into the Warp, or alternatively the previous-mentioned occult shit that allows them to be summoned or bound to material objects. If you remove what keeps the daemon anchored to the physical world you essentially banish the daemon back into the Warp.

This is the reason why actual summoning circles and such are necessary to get demons into the physical realm, they need something to anchor to

Depends on the daemon. Robot warriors of the Admech are effective against daemons because they are not affected by the daemons horror and corruption as mortals are.

However, certain powerful daemons like can possess machine willy-nilly. Drach'nyen mass possessed several Admech robots and even was going to possess a titan before it changed its mind since that didn't fit its purpose. It was literally jumping from one machine and fleshbag to the next.

Pariahs are called sometimes undead.

The Necrons are undead machines.

Being soulless means you are not truly alive.

Life can exist, in a way, sure, but emotions can't. The reason Pariahs and Necrons can go around is because they're emotionless robots. The whole idea of 40k's souls is that souls ARE emotions and vice versa.

I guess the question is whether life without a soul is really worth it.
The new Necrons seem to have some personality, which I always thought was odd. Pariahs were always depicted as something fundamentally wrong and detestable.

yeah, but dude... sentient flying knives.