Warhammer Fantasy General: Western Ulthuan 101

First of all I suggest you have a look at Dreadfleet and 6th edition General's Compendium. Especially the latter.

Second... dunno. Okay, just first then.

>shindol

Why would you bring this wickedness here?!

Lizardmen would obviously use various plesiosaurs and other marine dinosaurs. The Ogre Kingdoms probably don't have ships -- they and their food stores would be too heavy. There are Vampire corsairs -- pretty sure there's one in Dreadfleet -- and even a Vampire colony in Lustria. They'd be the same as Empire or Bretonnia, just with undead slaves and sunken ships. Beastmen aren't teched up enough to have a fleet. They'd be borrowing Chaos boats.

I feel like Ogre pirates aren't all that far out there, even if they're just using another factions ship. As for beastmen, I agree but at the same time I was very surprised to see a Skaven boat, even if all that boat did was get close enough to board me.

If I remember correctly, Mordheim alludes to Dwarf Pirates who don't use the steam ships. Or that could of been a fan thing, I can't remember, but they were Slayers with pistols and handaxes basically

What would a Lizardmen crew even consist of?

>hafling ship consisting of a ramshackle raft with a few hot soup pot launchers, a dozen fishing poles and a field kitchen
>tied to the backs of a few ogres, who just swim in the water, devouring small fish and plankton, like whales

lizardmen don't a ship, they are aquatic, ain't they?

or they can have a flying stone pyramid or something

I doubt they're aquatic enough for an ocean. Although that would be antagonist tier nightmare fuel if they were en masse.

But a flying stone pyramid sounds Slaan pimpin'

I didn't even think of the little buggers. Now I need to have my landlocked midgets some sea action too

I feel like they'd use merchant ships a lot. After all the Empire would do the actual Navy.

The Battle game has dwarf pirates as part of the Dogs of War working out of Sartosa. They're Long Drong's Slayer Pirates.

And Skaven have some of the best tech -- they should have submarines and repurposed, giant, deep-sea fish turned into submarines by Clan Moulder.

>Lady of the Lake is Sigmar who decided to explore other sides of sexuality after having shed flesh and becoming a god
>The reason (s)he answers so few players only because (s)he listens only to handsome Warrior Priests

Halflings outside the moot are uniformly caterers and cooks. They wouldn't have their own ships. They'd work as cooks and quartermasters on Empire ships.

Can we get the scans of the roleplay books?
Particularly second edition.

or a large dinazoah with an armored howdah. either a real marine one, like leopluradon, or a landlubbing one, but capable of swimming and carrying a lot of people, like diplodocus.

Let me tell you a story of Gimbo Fishmuncher, great halfling chef, who decided to travel the high seas, taste all the foreign foods, and above all, fish in all the seas and rivers in the world and taste all the fishes in the world...

I just made that up, but you get the idea.

Speaking of the Empire's ship design is abysmal. They have 3 ships in core (everyone does) and one of them was only designed in response to the Bretonians. Now Man o' War obviously wasn't GW's focus at basically any time really, but that is just sad. In the updates they get something approaching an innovation by sticking a massive cannon on the prow of their ship of the line. While cool and something I definitely want more of, my issue with that is the Wolfship already had most of it's armament in the prow

jake.ryft.org/warhammer/manowar/

Uniformly is a military issue. There could be a halfling merchant ship. Sure it wouldn't a unique design or circumstance, but still

That was best ship in Age of Empires 2, so I object to you thinking that's bad design!

>Halflings outside the moot are uniformly caterers and cooks.
But what about all the halfling pimps, second-hand horse salesmen and loansharks?
Who is going to fence those silver candlesticks you nicked from the cult hideout?

Yeah if Skaven are going to get ships, it makes sense they'd go full warp nuts on it. I agree with them being able to pull off some stupid crazy warpstone submarine thing. Especially since the Dwarves already have a steam submarine design

But nope, they have a rape raft. sad really.

As Citadel stopped doing their Halfings back in '90, where can I get some comfy, oldschool tenderfoots that fit?

Skaven can have slave-driven ramming boats. Officially, they have to accelerate fast, thanks to an experemental warpstone steam engine, and smash the enemy ship to bits with their spiked hull.
In reality, they have to accelerate fast and hope the engine doesn't explode until they hit the target, sending splinters and spikes in all direction, taking out a few ships and crippling a few more.
Basically, a nuclear fireship.

They are (mainly the second edition) in the OP repository.

>implying halfling wouldn't just eat the horse

and an invisible eshin ship

There is also canon Sam Spade halfing ripoff in Marienburg.

He was from that old short stories anthologies, like Wolf Riders. While Drachenfels is rather 3/10 and rather skub (still more cool than Nagash IMHO) those book were great and I recommend them.

Yes. Maybe. I don't know. Giant fucking turtle maybe?

My issue isn't at it's bad design per se, my issue is that it's improving on something they already had while neglecting what they were lacking in and still being the original's contemporary. It increased the choice to 4 but it's also more of the same. So I'm disappointed by the lost potential. Well really I'm disappointed by the fact that it was the only additional ship

And it looks way cooler than that. It's actually really up the Empire's ally and sadly about their only ship that is. I'll see if I can find a picture

That's perfect. Thanks. Anymore? Something with their flame or plague tech maybe? Maybe something incorporating the bell?

Chaos Dwarf dreadnought has to be the BBEG. Their ships are among the most 'modern' of any in the setting, like the regular Dwarfs, except powered by slave daemons :DDDDD

dunno whom it would fit, but in Sid Meier's Pirates! one of the most popular and funniest ships was indian canoe. It was very small, incredibly fast, could sail against wind, and was nearly impossible to hit with cannonfire due to size and speed. You basically rushed to the enemy ship, challenged the enemy captain to duel and killed him before your 8-man crew got slaughtered.

Probably Dark or Wood Elves?

I had a poke around and found the following:
westfaliafantasybattles.com/halfmen#!/Halflings/c/17898025/offset=0&sort=normal
blackhat.co.uk/product-category/28mm-miniatures/28mm-miniatures-shattered-isles-fantasy/28mm-miniatures-shattered-isles-fantasy-halfling-militia/
stonehavenmini.com/halflings/

Halflings seem like quite a popular third party thing.

I... forgot they existed...

And actually I know relatively little of them either (go figure)

Surely they'd be different enough from the dwarves that they're not just a recolour of the steam tech right?

It'd give the Wood elves their only feasible way to be included.

In Man o' War Dark Elves have two ships and ferry mini sea monsters as their "ships of the line" because they apparently find sea battles distasteful. Despite being raiders and all. I personally think this is rather limiting and really does them an injustice considering their lore and especially how bling their designs could be.

I couldn't find a picture from either the computer or tabletop game, so here's it's page from the rulebook

sure

>Bellship
>a massive roughly round ship made of rotten wood, with a stone arch with the Bell in the center
>very slow, mostly remain stationary, summoning storms and warp-lightning

>Poison Wind Frigate
>armored ship with a big funnel-shaped cannon up front and few poison wind mortars
>driven by a warpstone engine
>comes into close range and just gasses stuff with its frontal cannon
>mortars are weak, just for some extra kick
>when it's destroyed, it leaves a massive cloud of toxic fumes, that deny enemies the territory for a while. maybe have the cloud drift, if there're rules for wind?

>Stormship
>metal ship filled with Stormvermin, and driven by a few Rat-Ogres on oars
>rams into enemy ship and stormvermin and rat-ogres pour out

>Marineblight
>absolutely massive rotting galleon driven by a miriad of slaves on oars
could alternatively be the pestilens ship, or carry the Bell, or have options to be outfitted for any of the clans

>Sea Shadow
>giant manta ray with warpstone shards embedded, enslaved by Enshin sorcerers
>bilge-runners cling to its back, breathing through bamboo tubes, ninja-style
>the ship itself is almost invisible until it's too late, when bilge-runners are already climbing to board your ship

If anything this shows just how much potential and neglect the Naval side of the lore is. The Hellhammer is so Empire and yet it's the only thing even remotely like it in game

>And actually I know relatively little of them

The Chaos Dwarfs only have one ziggurat-city, the largest in the world, in which all the non-military castes live.
The River Ruin, which is basically a massive slough of slag and industrial waste, is what connects the city to the sea.

>Surely they'd be different enough from the dwarves that they're not just a recolour of the steam tech right?

They only really deploy fleets to capture slaves, so the ships are like warp-powered dreadnoughts crossed with slave ships crossed with those trucks you see on the motorway filled up with livestock.

I don't know about you but that gives me something to play with that doesn't involve axes, beer, grudges or steam.
The chaos dwarfs are lazy enough to employ others to actually capture the slaves, with perhaps a hidden outpost on a sinister island where these agents bring the goods to be picked up by whatever nightmare vessel you can come up with.

>The River Ruin, which is basically a massive slough of slag and industrial waste, is what connects the city to the sea.
so they, like, live downstream from Ankh-Morpork?

Because I could

in Dreadfleet they have a mechanical kraken submarine

Wasn't dreadfleet a boardgame with zero or next zero customisation and very far removed from Man o' War? Which now that I think about it, is saying something

yes, it was
it's still a warhammer game, so can potentially be used as inspiration... maybe

nothing wrong with mechanical kraken submarine anyway

No there isn't, I'm just surprised something like that (I.e. imaginative) was in there. From what I remember dreadfleet was supposed to be a dud in all respects

I'll fully admit what I learned of Man o' war I learned last night and today and I know basically nothing of Dreadfleet besides it's reputation

jake.ryft.org/warhammer/mowstuff/MOWrulebook.pdf
This is the main rulebook if anyone want's to take a look, but it's lacking some factions

Worth taking a look at are the various forms of propulsion used. Bretonnia & the Empire use oars and sails, Dwarves use steam, High Elves use superior elven fiat, Dark Elves use magic and Orcs use treadwheels

And ramming is a viable and encouraged tactic

What if Empire was based on some other European culture, instead of Germany? What if it were medieval Italy or Spain?

Enough about boats and pictures of Asian toddlers and back to WFRP.

Power Behind the Throne, the fourth book in the Enemy Within saga, focuses on Middenheim. But I have a feeling that the characterization of the city and its denizens has changed drastically since then. Would anyone be able to help me modify it so it's in keeping with the current fluff?

>City of Ulric on Fauschlag Rock, accessible via four great viaducts leading up to the top or chairlifts.

(Seems fine)

>The city is known for two other things, in addition to the Cult of Ulric, is proclivity for wizards and Dwarfs. The city invited wizards to defend it early in its history and his been home to a Wizard's and Alchemist's Guild and wizards are important in the city's defense.

This goes against the Empire's general attitude on magic and the history about Magnus the Pious and the colleges of magic. More than that, it just makes wizards way too common and changes the tone from 'gritty fantasy Germany' to a generic D&D "Wizard's City!" The Dwarfs are fine.

>Ruled by Graf Boris Todbringer, an elder statesmen with BOTH EYES INTACT who has three children, Heinrich (his bastard and favorite), Stefan (a retard), and Katarina (another bastard and the 'princess'). Since the death of his second wife, he's become enfeebled and sad. He rambles, is forgetful, and cannot sustain concentration for more than a few seconds. He spends most of his time in bed and when he must appear in the throne room, he is swathed in blankets.

Whaaaaaat the fuck? Why is Boris so different? And how can this be fixed?

I see nothing wrong. That's how Sigmar-abhorring heathen should be. He's probably and norscan and a nurgle cultist too.

>What if it were medieval Italy or Spain?
Then it would be Tilea or Estalia?

So I read over it and it's definitely very underdeveloped. The orcs for instance go from Hulk to no gun ramming boat. While the drill is awesome that's too little, they haven more warmachines for one, I think they should also have more goblin influence. But beyond replacing the whole crew with goblins I can't think how right now

I mean, if it was the major force, with developed background, history, influence on other countries, lots of fluff, proper armybook, central faction in the setting, etcetera, etcetera - not a random name slapped on a map and two units in a shared outdated armybook.

Well in the expansion that gives flyers they get a wyvern. So I think they disparity is a bit extreme.

As for the goblins they could get that goblin flight ballista thingy. Beyond that I think it would just be small ships, dingys even

Hard to say without a lot of time dedicated to developing said nation. It's changing a fundamental part of the setting, so there is no easy one post answer.

I think they have fan made army books like Ind, Cathay and Nippon do. But really they'd just be like Kislev but... further away. Maybe if Araby started shit but then they'd need supporting too. Basically the same as now but we'd hear about it I guess

That's something I guess. What kind of ships did Grom the Paunch sail on? Anyway maybe they could have like goblins swinging ball & chains off of the main deck or squigs being launched really short range out of catapults or something. The rules really aren't wild enough for Orcs & Goblins

>I mean, if it was the major force

The problem here is that for the same reason that Estalia and Tilea aren't considered "the major force" by you, is the same reason we can't adequately answer your question better than to say "It would be like Estalia or Tilea".

I realize that's super-unhelpful.

But instead, let me propose this; if Estalia and Tilea were as developed as The Empire, what would they be like? Or, what can we add to Estalia and Tilea that would still be in line with established fluff?

There's some fan material already, it's supposed to be pretty good, but I haven't read it, so I feel unqualified launching these questions, but there it is, I did it anyway.

>What kind of ships did Grom the Paunch sail on?
Goblin made ones. Nothing descriptive about them, just that the fleet was massive.

>The rules really aren't wild enough for Orcs & Goblins
See that's how I feel. None of the factions have any real identity, it really needs fleshing out, even if it's just in fluff

I haven't bothered to read the Tilean or Estalian ones, mostly due to disinterest. But the Cathay, Ind & Nippon ones are thorough is not completely reaching (but that's understandable). If anything they rely on the real life countries a bit too much. But they're still really interesting. There's also an Amazon one too but that's pretty mundane and super fan-ficcy.

And by as developed do you mean like the in the army book or technologically developed? Because in either way I feel they would have very little crunch identity to call their own

Oh, when I said developed, I meant narratively, thematically, fluff-wise, etc.

I honestly didn't even consider army books or crunch, because I never played the TT. My sole interest is the setting and roleplaying, really. I wanted to play the TT when I was younger, but the price points were just way too high for me and my family.

>More than that, it just makes wizards way too common and changes the tone from 'gritty fantasy Germany' to a generic D&D "Wizard's City!"

Look up early modern German universities. Cover that shit in grit and grimdark, marinate in wizard's guff, and you have something to work with.

I'm pretty sure I saw giant sea reptiles working as lizardmen ships in some of the old books. I think it was a giant turtle.

That was in the General's Compendium. Might have been in older books too but it was posted in the last thread from GC.

>I was very surprised to see a Skaven boat

They're literally the more advanced race in the setting. World war 1 tier, except with magic.

Ah I missed this, sorry for not replying

>Bellship
Sounds fine if a bit mundane. I feel it needs a bit more to it

>Poison Wind Frigate
There are rules for wind, it mostly affects speed (being up or down wind) so taking advantage of that is an interesting idea. As for the mortars I think that's necessary since the funnel cannon wouldn't always be viable. But I think the mortars would be better off being solids

>Stormship
Sounds good. But can rat-ogres be made to row oars? Would that not be a bit too disciplined for them?

>Marineblight
Perfect

>Sea Shadow
A manta ray? Where from? How?

I just don't see the rats capturing a manta ray.

hey so anons in manowar corsair what do I do with ships that have raised the white flag, is there a way to loot them>/make them my own?

Ah fair enough. Well like I said the ones that I've ready are well done and interesting, although they draw a bit too much from their real world counterparts in my opinion. Which is probably why I find the Amazonian one the weakest since there's no real world counterpart. As for Tilea & Estalia, well it'd mean there was some actual power plays going one beyond good and evil

Link?

Yeah most people are saying something along these lines

Sure but as far as I'm aware they're an underground species with no ports. It's not a tech thing, it's a "where are the ships coming from" thing. That and the one Skaven ship I've seen in Cosair was literally an overcrowded raft, not a warship.

If you want to keep it true to modern canon, the biggest problem is the Ar Ulric.

Emil Valgeir's in his 80s probably. I'm not sure he has the... stamina to perform the Ar Ulric's role in PBtT.
I suppose Ulric's blessing can be a powerful thing.

I'd probably use a high priest instead and either say that Emil Valgeir stays away from politics or is currently somewhere else.
The latter might work better since it's the vote that's important in the adventure.

White skin, stark browns, heavy use of tree spirits

Look up the Tilea Project.

I spent a lot of time making that you ingrates

...

Could it not simply be an Ar-Ulric prior to Emil Valgeir?

There are vast underground rivers and oceans, some with external access. There are entire Skaven clans centered around plying the black seas.

Skaven are literally everywhere except Ulthuan.

There's a quest/scenario/campaign book for 2d Edition that deals specifically with Middenheim, with about half the book just being background information, called Ashes of Middenheim.

Be aware, though, that there's still a Wizard & Alchemist's Guild in Middenheim.

The fact that you have to be part of the Colleges and Sanctioned does not stop Wizards from banding together in Guilds, in fact, it may even be more or less mandated by the city.

Gollum rode a canoe when he found the one Ring.

I know of great Kickstarter ones that are not yet in retail.

I dunno, like you say, Ulric's Blessing can probably be a very powerful thing. We are talking about the leader of the Ulrican Cult. Him still being amazeballs in his 80's isn't that big of a stretch.

Could Mr. Teatime beat Chaos?

It's not his combat ability that's the issue. (Massive spoilers)
It's the fact that he's having an affair with a 28-year-old lady of the court. Which is believable with the 48-year-old Ar-Ulric presented in the adventure, but less so with geriatric Emil Valgeir who has a grey beard down to his waist.

Fair point. That said.
>STRENGTH OF ARMS IS NOT ALL ULRIC GIVES HIS CHOSEN

Which rulebook(?) is the best option to buy wrt history, geography, lore, etc?

I know 8th edition has this huge 500+ pages one, but that's too pricy just for the sake of reading fluff.

Only special ed rulebooks give a full overview. Everything else focuses army by army.

But the older edition hardcovers may be cheaper. 7e I know had a smaller but stil good section.

Or you can DL anything in the OP.

...

I saw the files, but I'd prefer a pretty book :) and a cheap solution, like two years ago I could get the 4th ed 40K rulebook for $3.

>mfw meeting up with several others this weekend for some games
>mfw full day of awesome battles

Can't wait. If on the off chance any of you guys are based near Nottingham UK, there's still some spaces...

Good luck and have fun.

Is $20 for the dwarves half of battle for skull pass a good deal? I just want some dwarves damnit.

Uh, yeah? Get the pony, too.

Pony?

Looking for some feedback on a magical weapon an enemy uses.

It's an ancient hand-and-a-half sword that automatically confirms crits. Additionally, it worsens that crit by one degree on the table, and the result is rolled twice - with the more severe result preferred.

The downside is that it applies these same effects to a (living) user. Of course, if the players somehow get it, they would have to find this fact out on their own. The hard way.

Skull Pass comes with a pony with a cart full of dwarf goods. I used to have it for WFRP until my ex stole it from my apartment.

shieeet dwarves and a pony definitely doing it

Island of Blood is coming back with squares.

Could this be the beginning of Warhammer's comeback?

AoS is here to stay that much is obvious. But the current change in leadership and the slowdown in conversions from WHFB to AoS makes me feel as if they don't really know what they're doing anymore.

Could WHFB come back as a specialist?