Warhammer Fantasy General

Techpill
Techpill

Warhammer Fantasy General: Undead waifu edition.

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viagrandad
viagrandad

first for dwarfed

In scarier news how amazingly difficult is a treeman kit to assemble, I've just begun on the torso with a blutac dry run and holy shitballs. I hope the rest isn't as mind melting

Bidwell
Bidwell

Why does gw shit on all the lore ?

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Bidwell
They seem to be around equal with in terms of To Hit and To Wound with the Pyrelock Fyreglaive being more accurate but less powerful than a Freeguild Handgun. That being said, The Pyrelock Fyreglaives also have the Pyrelock Weapon rule to make them arguably more powerful.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

Who is best undead waifu?

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@CodeBuns
Genevieve.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@CodeBuns
Strigoi Ghoul Queens.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@CouchChiller
Not Canon ;)

DeathDog
DeathDog

Speaking of undead Waifus, I was thinking of converting up a Strigoi Ghoul Husbando. I'm slightly inspired by the stupid crypt ghoul vargheist mixtures GW is advertising, and I am thinging of mixing the vargheist head and body with crypt horror arms. Would this just look stupid, or do you think it could work?

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

A bunch of human lands are being attacked, and a group of human refugees head towards the nearest Karak to beg for shelter and protection. Would the Dwarves let them in?

For the sake of argument, they can be from any major human civilization - the Empire, Bretonnia, Kislev, or Estalia and Tilea. And they aren't secretly planning to backstab the dwarves or carrying any diseases.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@lostmypassword
No, because they could be trying to backstab the dwarfs, carrying a disease, planning to rob you, or doing any other kind of manling trickery. Also, why would you let them into your Ancestor's home?

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Techpill
I've been thinking about Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay and I've been wondering about making the statlines more in line with the tabletop. This would mean nerfing a bunch of things like monsters (Reducing the strength and toughness of a Bloodthirster to 67 for example) and setting stat maximums for everyone: (Man: WS 80, BS 60, S 50, T 40, Ag 70, A 5, M 5,) for example. Is this a good idea or not?

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@TalkBomber
Why?

Playboyize
Playboyize

@CodeBuns
Isabella

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@TalkBomber
What's the point? Surely it's not that hard to convert between the two.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@lostmypassword
How big is the group?

Flameblow
Flameblow

@lostmypassword
Probably, but most likely if they're from the Empire. They'd most likely have to be outside the hold itself, though, I don't think the dwarfs want their homes to become shitholes full of foreigners.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@viagrandad
GW really went fucking insane after the 8e Dwarf book.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@Firespawn
AoW Dread Harpies are amazing Ghoul Queens.

Swap their hands and legs with Ghouls if need be, but I kind of like the wings. Especially with a Terrorgheist, they look like they are flying alongside rather than awkwardly riding.

askme
askme

@DeathDog
They're huge, and a bit monopose.

But if you sculpt new shoulders, it could look nice. You get a pubic mane though, no peen.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@lostmypassword
Depends on who they are.

If peasants of no repute from a neutral nation, probably just put in a refugee camp in an unused hall with some basic guards and inexpensive food. Eventually they'll leave. Or Skaven will get them, since GW writing keeps races very isolated.

If from an old ally, for example Ubersriek to the Graylings, welcomed.

If pitiable but from a less friendly nation, put under glorified arrest and watched by guards.

If they owe a Grudge, be kept safe but probably forced to work to pay for the hospitality and work off the Grudge. If the lord is unwilling to accept work, told to piss off.

Generally speaking no Dawi are unfriendly to humans as a rule other than the Norse Dwarfs.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@askme
Who would expect a schlong on their warhammer model anyways?

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

Should HK ever be leaving his grave guard bunker? I assume his cloak is for quick escapes, but shouldn't he stay in the unit to buff up Krell and restore some models?

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Lord_Tryzalot
the Graylings

...the whatnow?

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Stupidasole
Dwarfs of the grey mountain. Ubersreik have a great relationship with them, with a large population in the city itself.

w8t4u
w8t4u

Playing in a 1500 tournament this weekend, anyone up for a late night list rate?

1500pts

Heinrich Kemmler, Lichemaster Supreme (350pts)

Krell, Champion Reborn (205pts)

5 Dire Wolves (40pts)

40 Skeleton Warriors w/Champion + Standard, (220pts)

40 Zombies w/Standard (125pts)

40 Grave Guard (560pts)
Great Weapons, Full Command, Banner of Barrows

Methnerd
Methnerd

Alright, question-with-no-correct-answer-time.

According to several sources, it costs a lot to attend the Colleges of Magic in Altdorf, although they are forced to accept even the poorest students, because that's their function, after all. This means that nobles are often given preferential treatment and gets better books and robes and shit.

Assuming that an Altdorf street-rat is willing to seek out the Colleges, maybe without being sure exactly where they are (because several of them are hidden) and know that it's expensive and look up even at Apprentices with awe (and fear, obviously);

What would such a person expect it to cost? I'm working on a potential character that may or may not ever be played, and the idea is that it's a street-rat that starts to experience weird stuff. The character decides to start raising money as it's way out of the slums and get help at the Colleges, but is deathly afraid of witch-hunters and the like - even though the witch-hunters are technically required to deliver such hopefuls and uncorrupted to the Colleges or a Magister, the character obviously have no way of knowing this.

If the character can't raise "enough" money by the end of the starting career and go to the Colleges, I was thinking it'd start being a Hedge Wizard and then go to the Colleges after that. I leave the choice of College intentionally open, and will either let the GM decide or roll a dice (or let the GM decide by rolling a dice in secret). Or if there happens to be a Collegiate Magister in the group by then (albeit highly unlikely) it would make a good master-apprentice thing.

How much do you think an Altdorfian street-rat would feel would be "enough" before seriously seeking out the Colleges or mustering enough courage to go tug the robe of a passing mage, coin-purse in hand?

I am fully aware that all the money will be taken by the College, whether we're talking 10 brass pennies or 10 000 gold crowns.

idontknow
idontknow

@GoogleCat
How are they with the Bretonnians? And the Black Mountain(?) dwarves with the Tileans or Estalians?

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@GoogleCat
Ah, fair enough, I thought you were referring to two different kinds of humans seeking the dwarfs out, not a relationship between a specific human-dwarf pairing.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@CodeBuns
Neferata

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@idontknow
How are they with the Bretonnians?
Bretonnians and dwarfs generally have amicable relations, with a few exceptions. That said, Bretonnia is much, much, much more homogeneous in terms of inter-species relations than the Empire is. Dwarfs are very rare, elves even rarer, and halflings are practically unheard of, even by imperial standards. Also, in Bretonnia, non-humans are treated the same as foreigners anyway, which makes them curious oddities not beholden to any one lord, potentially making them partly above the law, and partly outlaws, which is not a great spot to be in.

So most bretonnians would likely get some form of help, but be regarded as backwards.. well.. peasants. Dwarfs in general probably considers the whole Lady thing that the knight's and nobility have got going as questionable at best, and their idea of honour (i.e. chivalry) as infantile. If I were to make a general judgement on Grey Mountain Dwarf-Bretonnian relations, I'd say "cool but fully amicable". There's expressly trade going on, as well.

And the Black Mountain(?) dwarves with the Tileans or Estalians?
Black Mountain is along the Border Princes, far away from Tilea and Estalia, but it doesn't make a difference, really; I can't imagine that much was ever said on Tilean-Estalian-Dwarf relations. There are no known holds in the mountain ranges in Estalia.

I would imagine that they are much like the Bretonnian one, although likely a fair bit warmer, especially in Tilea, since they share a common generational enemy in the Skaven. Tilea also has most the The Vaults, a high mountain-range with multiple dwarf holds. Tilean relations are probably a lot more like the Empire's, while Estalian are a lot more like Bretonnia (due to a lack of contact).

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

go to local FLGS
only FLGS in town
they don't play WHFB, T9A or Mordheim
they don't even KoW or Frostgrave
those games are too "complex" and "time-consuming" for them
anything you have to dedicate time and energy to play is apparently bad
try to shill Age of Sigmar to me
I make a veiled "beer and pretzels" snark
they happily agree it's an awesome game to play with beer and pretzels

what do, /whfb/? I ain't got anyone to play with. My friends moved into other countries, and the ones that left are not interested in wargames whatsoever. I'd even supply armies, I got several, I jsut need someone to play with...

cum2soon
cum2soon

did Bretonnia ever fight with High Elves in fluff?

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Methnerd
Basically your character will be in bondage to the college for life, paying off the debt. They'll need to train him but he'll be working off the debt to the college for a long time.

Everything will cost, his education, his clothing, his food. Your looking at thousands and thousands of gold coins over the course of his education.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Methnerd
an illiterate street-rat? I suppose he'd expect the cost to be your immortal soul, or firstborn child, or 13 years of service, or "the last student to leave becomes the slave of the teacher forever", or something along those lines.

Other than that, there might be (should be, in fact) some urban legends about mystical amounts of money that the entry fee costs. Maybe exactly 666 silver pieces, or maybe a hundred pennies takes from graves, or something like that.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@w8t4u
I'd separate the skeletons into 2 blocks desu

you lack a hard hitting hammer to your anvils, except for the grave deathstar, but even that would need the help of a side charge and you could use the second block as countercharge for the zombie anvil

pretty risky having only 5 wolves, but the list sounds fluffy for 1500, good luck

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Gigastrength
wow, it's like modern tuition fee loans! WHFB is so modern-day!

eGremlin
eGremlin

@cum2soon
When you say "fight with", do you mean fight alongside, or fight against?

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@DeathDog
the mixture you describe has become its own unit type in AoS, so judge for yourself

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

be Eshin sensei
hear warpstone meteorite falls on Mordheim
start assembling warbands to send there
meanwhile send spies and emissaries to the black markets and mercenary companies to gather rumours and gauge competitions
as a result of all the talk, mercenaries, chaos worshippers, vampires, everyone, get wind of what's going on
a whole host of Eshin skaven, Nurgle cultists, undead, Reiklanders, etc, descend upon M-heim and ravage through it
reports start coming that no warpstone found
turns all human locale names sound the same to you and you confused Mordheim with Middenheim
and since you were the source of the rumours, all those mercenaries went to Middenheim too...

Spamalot
Spamalot

@CodeBuns
that face need square-rimmed glasses to fully become a ghoul hipster

@eGremlin
against

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@Spamalot
you have to file the head and add some spikes here and there but it'd be identicak to TW strigoi ghoul king, since it uses the crypt horror base model too

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Lord_Tryzalot
grimderp warhammer is my favourite warhammer

RavySnake
RavySnake

@CodeBuns
Gabriella

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@CodeBuns
Does an old frog count?

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@RavySnake
Not at all, magical education is actually useful.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Lord_Tryzalot
Fuck-fuck!

Clearly-surely my spy-spies are to blame for this!

hairygrape
hairygrape

@Emberfire
Maybe exactly 666 silver pieces

I like this idea. It ends up at 33,3 gold crowns, too, which is potentially a hefty sum, and certainly an insanely huge amount by a young street-rat's standards.

@Gigastrength
Basically your character will be in bondage to the college for life, paying off the debt. They'll need to train him but he'll be working off the debt to the college for a long time.

Well that's pretty much how all the wizards end up, anyway. You're beholden to your College for life, and expected to serve it. Might be hard to become a full Magister, though. So I have absolutely no trouble with that. My character might, not realizing that you sign on for life, is soul-bound to your master, and must follow a lot of rules. After all, all you don't see that many apprentices outside of the Colleges themselves, and the rest are either Journeymen or Magisters, and appear fairly free.

Everything will cost, his education, his clothing, his food. Your looking at thousands and thousands of gold coins over the course of his education.

"Thousands and thousands" sounds a bit like hyperbole, considering that gold crowns are actually extremely valuable. Clothing and food is cheap, it's the work of the Magisters (that they pretty much have to do anyway) and the books (most of which the Colleges no doubt have, it's not like they can buy them anywhere, and they have Apprentices make copies) that can be considered valuable.

It is said that nobles can pay a lot for tuition and such, but most nobles don't have thousands and thousands of gold crowns. We're still talking a lot, though, obviously. The Colleges of Magic likely charge what they think they can get, and I wouldn't be surprised if tuition is different from College to College (which you potentially have little to no control over, in terms of where you end up).

Flameblow
Flameblow

@hairygrape
I suggest you try to find some WHFB magic number though. 666 is too cheesy even in our world by now, and carries zero meaning in WHFB world.

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Spamalot
against
I sincerely doubt it. If there was a conflict between the High Elves and Bretonnia, the Wood Elves and/or the Cult of the Lady would likely intervene or manipulate the events, unless there's some tremendously good cause for the conflict or if the High Elves have fucked things up with the Wood Elves.

I dunno, though, I just can't see how it'd happen. I wouldn't be surprised if there were skirmishes or smaller conflicts based on some form of misunderstanding, or the high elves slighting someone's honour, I guess.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Gigastrength
unless it's Gold College, of course
graduation exam is to pay off your debt in one go

Snarelure
Snarelure

Bretonnians have Grail Chapels. I know there are damsels and prophetesses, but are there lay priests at the chapels? Holy days, or relgious sermons? Peasants aren't allowed to pray before battle, but do they worship the Lady at all, or is it only the nobles?

For something so central to Bretonnia, worship of the Lady seems really poorly fleshed out beyond quests. Imagine if Sigmar's worship was only explained as far as the warrior priests and symbols on shields, without the political power or relation to various proviences.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@Snarelure
The Bretonnia book for WFRP 2e mentions a Chapel where the priest is a Grail Knight. Damsels seem to be the norm for clergy, but I want to say noblemen can serve in the role, too.

No idea what holy days there are. Probably ones to commemorate Gilles the Unified's victories.

Peasants definitely worship the Lady, or at the very least Grail Knights. However, it seems that the Lady's focus on the nobility leads peasants to instead favor Shallya and Taal.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@Flameblow
666 is too cheesy even in our world by now, and carries zero meaning in WHFB world.

I dunno, it sounds like some ridiculous number the peasants would come up with, and it being cringey in real life only adds to that. It's not like the character would know any of the true magic numbers anyway.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@Snarelure
Bretonnia in general is poorly fleshed out, I don't know if you can find more information in their BL books.

In one comic we see the chapel having numerous, simple galleries, wich may imply popular access and sermons.

1/3

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Snarelure
2/3

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Deadlyinx
make it 888 then. 8 being the number of Chaos and the reference to 666 will be obvious enough to keep the cringe.

TechHater
TechHater

@Flameblow
3/3

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Snarelure
I can imagine that there are chapels in which lesser nobles and retired knights or even less influential (or particularly pious) grail knights serve as lay priests, yeah, but I don't think it's any kind of formalized church, but more as a functionary fulfilling that role, or acting as the caretaker and protector of that particular chapel or holy site.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@TalkBomber
8 is khorne, 6 is slaanesh

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@GoogleCat
hm, but the 8-pointed start? and I remember in Ravenor Rogue a chaos guy was commiting ritual killings in various metaphorical 8s (kill 8 people, one stabbed 8 times, another one killed with 8-inch blade, another had 8 children, etc.)

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Spazyfool
the star has 8 points but I don't remember any source connecting chaos undivided to the number 8 specifically while we know the chaos gods have each a number linked to them
slaanesh has 6 for the 6 sins he favors (on top of the similarity to "sex", I would bet)
nurgle has 7 because 7 are the main illnesses of infants
khorne has 8 for 8 are the directions to wage war towards
tzeentch has 9 for he finds more ways to walk through

skaven and malal are respectively 13 and 11 because reasons (I assume the 13 is for the rat because there's an underlying theme of them inheriting the world after the apocalypse, so after the 12 tolls of the metaphoric bell, or because in warhammer 13 is associate with the end in general or just because it's an unlucky number like 17)

FastChef
FastChef

@Snarelure
I always liked this comic,

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

Skaven deserve headpats. HEADPATS!

farquit
farquit

@Garbage Can Lid
headpants? why would they need pants on their heads? they are not dwarfs!

TechHater
TechHater

are there any other good settings with Skaven/Ratmen as a major and cool race?

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@TechHater
Redwall?

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@Fuzzy_Logic
do they use mad warptech, frankenstein monstrosities and horrendous plagues to crush their enemies beneath their furry heels there?

5mileys
5mileys

@lostmypassword
No.

There are mad scientist rats in The Secret of NIMH, though. I tend to think it was an inspiration for the skaven.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@StrangeWizard
Honestly, canon doesn't mean a whole lot to me these days after GW ran it into the ground.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@5mileys
yeah, I watched that, but I want moar. I'm trying to scrounge as many takes on Skaven as possible to glean best things for inspiration (and headcanon)

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@Garbage Can Lid
I agree

DeathDog
DeathDog

@StrangeWizard
slaanesh has 6 for the 6 sins he favours
nurgle has 7 because 7 are the main illnesses of infants
khorne has 8 for 8 are the directions to wage war against
tzeentch has 9 for he finds more ways to walk through

I've never heard this before, so I would love to hear where it's from. I've heard the numbers, and I've seen them referred to, but I've never heard the rationales. I'm not questioning what you say, I'm just genuinely interested where it's from because it sounds cool.

Additionally, what are the 6 sins of Slaanesh, what are the 7 "main illnesses of infants", and how is 9 connected to "more ways to walk through"? Khorne is the only one that is self-explanatory.

malal is 11
Where is that from, and is there ever a stated reason? Again, not questioning it, I just had no idea Malal ever even had the opportunity to get a number, since he didn't exist for that long and isn't in most material.

skaven is 13
Want to get conspiratorial? This is conjecture, but the Skaven are arguably originally based on pronounced Jewish caricatures, and the Elders of Zion are supposed to be headed by representatives of the 12 Jewish tribes. The Council of Thirteen is similarly a shadowy cabal with representatives from the 12 Skaven clans, the 13th seat reserved for the Great Horned Rat himself.

That, of course, has very little to do with any in-universe justifications. As far as I know, there is now far more than 12 clans, but the number of ruling seats is still limited to 13.

girlDog
girlDog

How fluffy is this mod?
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=831679533

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@CodeBuns
Best waifu.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@SomethingNew
@CouchChiller

You guys are alright

FastChef
FastChef

According to the Strigany Mystic career in Nights Dark Masters, people of Strigany blood gets a -10 Fellowship when dealing with a person of the Empire, for basically being filthy gypsies that lie, cheat and steal. You know, the basics.

Why would this only extend to the Empire, though? Wouldn't this apply to basically everyone from the Old World? I can't imagine that Kislevites, Bretonnians, Tileans, Estalians or even Norscans enjoy gypsies more than The Empire does.

farquit
farquit

@FastChef
The strigs migrates mostly north, and it was the ancestors of the Empire that tore down their old kingdom.

Methnerd
Methnerd

Volkhmar is Changeling

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@Bidwell

AoS is too simplified. There's only so many variations they can come up with. I reckon half the units have the same stats with a +1 in one area and a -1 in another.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@LuckyDusty
funny thing, KoW has exactly the same problem

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Playboyize

Correct.

5mileys
5mileys

@Lunatick
I want to unsee this shit...

w8t4u
w8t4u

@DeathDog
Makes both dwarves and Skaven based on Jews then.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@w8t4u
well, since all humans come from Adam first and from Noah second, all humans are based on Jews, and as extension so are all WHFB races, being expys.

Evilember
Evilember

@Carnalpleasure
as a cutout that's not half bad. it's the whole ensemble that makes my eyes bleed with black ichor

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Sharpcharm
OY VEEEEEEEY

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@idontknow
Brets are seperated by Wood Elves and Athel Loren from contact with Dwarfs.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@Evil_kitten
Start a community. Just show up, offer to run a demo game.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@Fuzzy_Logic
the point is they mostly come from WHFB, they fucking crossed over
Mordheim and KoW they tried but didn't like. Okay, KoW is little different from AoS, apart from model count, but Mordheim!!!

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

well boys, its 1:30 am, 28 degrees and 99% humidity. I want to be productive and do some modelling but the humidity is death. what can I do to be productive!

seems far too humid to paint, which is a shame. as I've almost completed my entire empire army. Just have 5-6 swordsman, then 18 greatswords to go

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@w8t4u
I actual have the theory that Skaven are "descent" from the dwarves.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@BlogWobbles
Skaven are to Dwarfs what Elves are to Humans - more agile, intelligent and magically gifted but less tough superspieces.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Evil_kitten
You in Melbourne Australia maybe? I'm looking to start KOW and Fantasy and would be happy for regular games.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@Emberburn
About 20k km in either direction, I'm afraid.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@BlogWobbles
@CodeBuns

That. Is going. In. The. BOOK.

hairygrape
hairygrape

Any stats for Archeon in WFRP 2e?

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@lostmypassword
whatever. you clear off grudges about as fast as mountains grow. no risk to us.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@DeathDog
Khorne finds 8 directions to wage war in, and they are cardinal directions. N NE E SE S SW W NW

Tzeench finds an extra direction. Because magic.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@SomethingNew
Who is this?

Playboyize
Playboyize

@Nojokur
Best girl.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@Nojokur
Mary Sue originally written for her own setting (Anno Dracula / Diogenes Club), where she sorta works out, but carried over into WHFB, where she's a glaring special snowflake mary sue, because author just didn't bother to write a new character or change her name. because that's totally not cringy, yeah.

still some anons like her, for reasons inscrutable.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@Raving_Cute
Try Warhammer Skirmish?

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@BlogWobbles
9 degrees. Dwarfs ahoy.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@Nojokur
Kung Fu French Maid Vampire who Sigmar blessed because she told Satan to fuck off and killed greenskins.

Also she solves mysteries and fucks Bards.

WebTool
WebTool

@Stark_Naked
I brought it up in the conversation. They said "It sucked. Idea was good, execution horrible. But AoS has all that and is actually cool."

Fuck them. I'd rather keep to my collecting and play once in a year or so when my friends come to visit.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@w8t4u

Careful of skaven, as they can and will ruin your day. Your list looks extremely vulnerable to HPA, WLC and even Rogres.

Consider dropping something to get higher mobility, as some list could just run circles around you.

Going without a dispel scroll is also risky

Emberfire
Emberfire

@WebTool
What about 6e? WFRP? MoW with models from other companies? Warhammer Quest? Talisman?

Have you tried asking them point blank if they will play any Warhammer that isn't AoS and its derivitives?

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Playboyize
@BinaryMan
@Poker_Star
Okay that's what she is. Who is she?

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@RavySnake
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Genevieve_Sandrine_du_Pointe_du_Lac_Dieudonné

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@Emberfire
I didn't ask about RPGs at all, since that would lead to an uncomfortable question whether they have groups that play in English or my minority's language, since while I speak the official language good enough to get by every day, I can't play a make-believe game in it.

Nah, I just gave up and left. I guess I could try playing AoS with them, get friends and stuff and slowly try to swing them all my way, but meh, too much effort and small chance of success.

@RavySnake
Genevieve Duedonne

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@WebTool
you are going to have to go beyond the store user
make an ad on a gumtree/craigslist/whatever the equilavent is in your country.
I'm sure you would have a facebook local selling and buying group, outright ask there

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@haveahappyday
This.

College students wanting players for games put flyers in hobby shops, libraries, craft stores, and restaraunts in my town.

Methshot
Methshot

@BlogWobbles

Codex explicitly says that they're either mutated humans or mutated rats

Lunatick
Lunatick

@CodeBuns
@Lord_Tryzalot
Thanks m8ys

Flameblow
Flameblow

"Aaaaaaal."

Methshot
Methshot

@hairygrape
No, but Mannlet does.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Carnalpleasure
Grandkids are going to be pissed

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@BinaryMan
Warhammer was just a wacky setting back when Drachenfels was written. She fitted right in.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@BlogWobbles
I dunno, I always hated her, and Drachenfels itself is hack writing to me (and not the fun kind).

I *did* really enjoy Beasts in Velvet, and also Genevieve's loli grandmother-in-darkness's bantz.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@SniperWish
Sounds like a personal problem.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@Firespawn
Yeah, I'm sorry you like sues, but everyone has shameful loves, don't feel bad.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Fried_Sushi
No need to be salty, m8.

We can both agree that Archaon a shit.

massdebater
massdebater

@Fried_Sushi
I dunno. I feel that Warhammer turned into Suehammer in the 8'th edition. At least Genvieve was a fun sue and more likeable than most of the tabletop special characters in Warhammer.

Spamalot
Spamalot

Would you guys care if I used well-painted em4 orcs while I build up my army?
http://em4miniatures.com/acatalog/Copy_of_Fantasy.html

farquit
farquit

@massdebater
This.

Unless its a dubiously canon BL novel thanks to disconnect between teams, GW characters have no personality. They're just minor NOCs designed to sell a model.

That's why Karl Franz has dialogue and a family in novels, and in everything else he's just the guy holding Ghal Maraz on a Griffon who rides into a battle.

Thorgrim in BL has a succession problem, treasured kinsmen, and a hobby. In army books he's a list of accomplishments and the guy with an army.

Tyrion in BL has childhood friends, fears, guilt and shame. Tyrion in army books drives the plot by being a retard who kills armies by himself.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@Spamalot
Naw man, use whatever company and proxies you want in my opinion.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@massdebater
Biggest problem I have with her is how she's managed to learn kung fu and easily control her thirst for blood from a storytelling perspective on the author's whim, and get along well enough with Empire nobles even as an open vampire, and that she made Magnus the Pious canonically a creep.

but humanizing characters

Humanizing does not necessarily mean slapping on a few distasteful traits. No one would like it if Sigmar felt up sixteen year old looking girls, even if describing him living a human life instead of just being a myth might be fun.

And say what you will about tabletop characters, but it's really hard to fuck them up or make them unlikeable when they have only a page or two of description, and become iconic besides. A book, an older book with an older take on canon, not even a short story, takes some risks.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Techpill
So, I remember there being a thread a looooooong while back, where the WHFB world was flipped upside down, and every faction had its alignment flipped around. I thought the idea was intresting enough, and was wondering if anybody had saved it somewhere, and if not, if anybody would like to maybe build on it a bit more.

Inmate
Inmate

@Soft_member
Genevieve came out when Magnus was barely a footnote, Karl Franz had a Chaos Spawn for a nephew and was an inept Emperor of a crumbling realm, Bloodlines weren't really a thing, Tomb Kings were in the same army as Vampire Counts, Malal was canon, there was no Archaon, 40k was a new release, and Spore Orcs weren't canon yet. Warhammer had only actually had lore at all for two years. I repeat: the first Warhammer lore only came out two years prior with the release of 3e.

Its hardly character assassination of a beloved hero.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Soft_member
The whole open vampire thing I always saw like how it is the Discworld series.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@Garbage Can Lid
I think thats why I like Genevieve. Its basically Warhammer Discworld.

Like how Sigmar is Warhammer Conan.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@w8t4u
Makes both dwarves and Skaven based on Jews then.

In a way, yes. I would not say that dwarfs in Warhammer are based on Jews, though, but I know that Tolkien based his his dwarfs on his (relatively positive) interpretation of Jewish and semitic culture(s). But the dwarfs in Warhammer goes through a lot of different lenses before coming out as the distinct "Warhammer dwarfs".

The fact that people didn't actually recognize the Jewish/semitic "heritage" of the Tolkien dwarfs probably contributed heavily to this, and is probably why Dwarfs ended up being giving Nordic and Scottish interpretations; after all, saying that the Scottish are stingy and frugal is a lot more acceptable than saying that Jews are greedy, and dwarfish greed are one of their key signature aspects in Tolkien, to the point where that is the aspect that the ring(s) increase it massively, in the same way the One Ring turns Frodo and Bilbo invisible because they are Hobbits, or turns the empathic and sensitive Galadriel into a practical telepath.

The Skaven, however, seems to be based almost entirely on purely negative aspects, no matter how we cut it, and are, if anything, complete caricatures to the point of absurdity; to the point where it's not even recognizable as a clear caricature or satire.

@BlogWobbles
I actual have the theory that Skaven are "descent" from the dwarves.
You are not alone in that, and considering the literary and cultural foundation, it makes some degree of sense that the Skaven would be the kind of caricature they are, where the dwarfs were originally based on relatively positive interpretations, and the Skaven entirely on negative ones.

I'm entirely convinced that the Skaven are mutated dwarfs. It even fits fairly well with the origin story (pic related).

massdebater
massdebater

@Sharpcharm
How so? I don't see it suggested there.

Also, I thought based on armor that Dwarfs are Saxons.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@w8t4u
Just havin a giggle

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Soft_member
and that she made Magnus the Pious canonically a creep.

I mean, looking at the guy...

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Soft_member
No one would like it if Sigmar felt up sixteen year old looking girls

I'd be disappointed if he didn't. He's a Conan the Cimmerian expie and 16 is an adult in the *modern* Empire, let alone in his time.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Inmate
This. She was a character in an underdeveloped protomass of a setting. Comparing her to modern Warhammer lore is just being shortsighted.

I like Genevieve because she is a fun charming character that goes on fun adventures. I also feel that the obsession of canon is ruining fantasy as a genre. Canon should serve a story and not the other way around. The cool screwball ideas needs ro be there to get the imagination flowing.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@viagrandad
Fantasy's autistic over-reliance on a 63-year-old work is what's ruining fantasy as a genre. Whether or not things said or established in a work hold any kind meaning or importance whatsoever in the very same work, or previous and following ones may be important to some readers immersion and investment levels, in my opinion.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@viagrandad
Pretty sure "ignore canon, go crazy" is the point of AoS.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@BlogWobbles
You still don't go feeling them up without being in a relationship or something tho

@viagrandad
I don't think canon is the problem. Everyone knows that Genevieve is old, and her stories have a lot of old ideas on things.

And fun is obviously subjective. I feel canon should be bendable, but making it subjective to the whims of a story really only works when the story is good, otherwise you get bad writers like CS Goto. I'm not arguing the guy who wrote Genevieve is Goto, but I am arguing that she is not a fun character for me, and the tone and feel of her stories is not what I got into Warhammer for, and it being old doesn't necessarily make it better. If you went to the 40k crowd and asked them for some old 40k stories, they'd probably just scratch their heads, maybe one would belch out something from the late 90s that was asinine enough to avoid retcons.

Methnerd
Methnerd

@Poker_Star
AoS seems more like a cynical focus group kind of setting rather than the artists and writers doing what they want to do.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@viagrandad
@whereismyname
I don't think continuity or originality is the problem.

The problem is theme and narrative. If you tell a story, you need a consistant voice and the story should have value. Star Wars 7 is an example of a story with no value, it repeats what worked before rather than being its own thing and contributing to expanding its universe in a meaningful way or being a self-contained adventure.

Alien is an example of a series that lost its voice. Every incarnation was so radically different that it went from horror movie to action movie to philosophical drama to an exploration of humanity. Now its a parody of itself.

Playboyize
Playboyize

@whereismyname
Yours is a newfag argument.

This coming from a newfag.

You're saying "not muh".

Like saying fuck the Trilogy, revere the prequels.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Playboyize
Not really. There's a definite preachy tone to several of the Genevieve stories which is rather obnoxious.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@BlogWobbles
that's a nice pic

WebTool
WebTool

Afreeguild captain see's something he should not have seen and only the witch hunter and his companion who is a duardin is helping him. He goes on to explain this book will see how normal people view all the craziness but on the ground level things are still similar yet not. Like there is a shard of the world that was in the sea next to the city that is mined as currency to be used to glimpse in the future.

Also the scourge privateers control the docks and they are not nice people going by Nick's description of them twitch chat called them pretty much Aelven mafia well they sound like it. The witch hunter is from the order of ayzr created by sigmar to destroy corruption in the new cities but they are stretched to the absolute limit with all the new people coming into the cities

They also look at the divide between those who came from azyr who are taking all the important jobs and the tribes nomads and people who survived the age of chaos coming into the cities it seems they live in the more slum like area Also many of the people of ayzr view these people coming in corrupted by chaos because they wonder how they survived with the age of chaos hanging over them

Also we get to see how a normal human views a stormcast of course some are heroic and mingle with the populace but the ones in the city are the knight excelsior who hate everything to do with chaos and of course if they get a hint they will carry out a purge and purges happened in the past. Hence why the witch hunter's job is so important

One last thing sigmar's hope was to have all three main races living in the cities together of course certain armies are seperate and doing their own thing even if they are allies but largely the cities are a mixed population perhaps with one main group. Like the city on the novel is mainly a free guild city while let's say the one in the realm of life has a larger aelf population since it was mainly built by the phoenix temple. I quite like this since it makes it dynamic.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@WebTool
When the interview mentioned giving the cities the sort of depth that was present in the Old World with Altdorf and Middenheim I was overjoyed. I loved the mentions of the city docks being under the thumb of the Scourge Privateers, acting basically as a mafia + the way that there's friction between the native folk of the Realms (hardbitten survivors who've endured centuries of ruin and war) and the Azyrites (who were largely unscathed by it, and end up with all the important jobs in the city) . Also looking forward to the new perspective on the stormcast - the idea that these guys have by now been reforged several times each and are a more distant and somewhat scary force.

TechHater
TechHater

@Illusionz
Warhammer has gone through a bunch if different phases and revisions. I'm not sure it ever had a consistent theme and narrative throughout the years. You just get a bunch of different kind of sweetspots to pick from.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@massdebater
How so? I don't see it suggested there.
See what?

Also, I thought based on armor that Dwarfs are Saxons.
I am not really familiar with Saxon armour, but looking at it, I can't say that it doesn't fit with some depictions of the Warhammer dwarfs, but I can't say that it fits as an overall theme, either.

Can't say I've ever connected the Warhammer Dwarfs with the Saxons, but I could be wrong, it might be in there, somewhere.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Soft_member
she made Magnus the Pious canonically a creep

I don't see a problem with this. In fact, I find that preferable, just like I find it preferable to infer that Sigmar was first and foremost a barbarian warlord, and I would very much be disappointed if he didn't bed several sixteen-year-olds even into old age, and I far preferred the interpretation of Karl Franz as a shrewd and tired Emperor that is trying to keep the Empire to that of the modern interpretation of him as an undefeatable general and peerless warrior with a massive magical hammer riding a griffon that was given to him by the wood elves.

Just reading that last part out makes me cringe.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

What are your favorite skelly models, /wfg/?

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@Evil_kitten
Same story all over man. I'd probably drive 5 hours on a weekend to play a fantasy marathon with strangers.

JunkTop
JunkTop

Who wins, Mannfred von Carstein or Deathmaster Snikch?

Assume Mannlet has all the assets he did after the Storm and is at home in Sylvania planning some temper trantrum. Assume Snikch's intent to kill daddy's little boy is not yet known.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Dreamworx
@WebTool

You might be lost, user.
Here's the way /tg/thread/51163379#p51163379

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Evil_kitten
I make a veiled "beer and pretzels" snark
they happily agree it's an awesome game to play with beer and pretzels

Battletech grog here. Don't you fucking dare lump us in with those autistic asscrack pregnancies that are Age of Smegmar players.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@Gigastrength
The really old metal ones from Citadel were nice. I have a drummer, very nice proportions.

Reaper Bones for cheapness.

MPmaster
MPmaster

@JunkTop
Depends on plot armor more than anything.

Mannfred could be prepared for assassins, or Snikch could just succeed without anyone knowing how.

idontknow
idontknow

@JunkTop
I'm gonna say Snikch, because he's cool, and Mannfred is a whiny little piece of shit who'll never live up to Vlad's legacy.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Playboyize
But the crux of the argument, once you throw aside arguments of canon and start getting into if it's good/fun, is basically 'not muh' and 'muh.' It's just opinionated 'stop liking what I don't like' on both sides, and I think it's better that both sides recognize that instead of arguing endlessly on justifying their viewpoints.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@idontknow
Only as of Sigmar's Blood.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@MPmaster
I'm sure Mannfred is prepared for assassination attempts, he IS a vampire...but Snikch is not just an assassin, he's THE assassin. And skaven certainly have a reason to kill Mannfred, there's plenty of warpstone in Sylvaniia. Without a strong leader, the vampires would fall to civil war and the skaven could harvest all the slaves and warpstone they want.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Soft_member
But as a counterpoint, Mannfred has no scruples and they could cut a deal with him like they did the Dark Elves.

Rebel vampires are too chaotic a situation.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@TalkBomber
I've never heard of Snikch ever cutting a deal with anyone ever, so if Mannlet is cutting a deal, it'd have to be before the kill order comes down.

The Skaven thrive in and deliberately cultivate chaos. Look at Araby. And Mannfred is almost Skaven-like in his propensity to double-cross.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@WebTool
@Dreamworx
Too little too late in a character driven setting.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@viagrandad
t. faggot that dont read books

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@RumChicken
If it's End Times shit, don't waste my time.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@Need_TLC
This.

viagrandad
viagrandad

I remember a few threads back there was talk about the aftermath of Storm of Chaos being potentially interesting, because things were left in such a shitty state for the Empire.

But while I get there are big ways that could go in the future, how would the Empire survive the food shortages in the short term, without collapsing into anarchy or civil war?

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@viagrandad
Wasn't he cutting a fuckton in Mordheim?

As I recall all he did was cut deals.

Also, vampires are different from humans. Disorganized humansare easy prey. Vampires are stronger apart.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Burnblaze
Vampires are stronger apart.

You think so? Because without Vlad, Konrad, or Mannlet to lead them, they basically did nothing for centuries. It got so bad Sylvania was ruled by Stirland rejects.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@w8t4u
Archaon is fine. SoC made everyone look like a dumbass.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@ZeroReborn
Most vampires don't have the ambition to rule everyone. Blood Dragons mostly just care about becoming better warriors, Necrarchs care more about necromantic research and Strigoi keep a low profile. Only the Lahmia and von Carstein really had any interest in ruling over mortals.

Trying to take over the world is not part of the typical vampire ambition.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@Garbage Can Lid
Archaon is boring and has the mentality of a beta schoolshooter.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@Lord_Tryzalot
t butthurt Elf fag

Archaon is great and his rise to power is great.

Methnerd
Methnerd

@Garbage Can Lid
At no point was he ever interesting.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Burnblaze
Where exactly did you get elf from there?

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@Garbage Can Lid
You mean Archaos?

WebTool
WebTool

@Lord_Tryzalot
Unfailable reasoning here.

idontknow
idontknow

@Nojokur
It's the only thing that makes them worse than a low-scale natural disaster, however.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@WebTool
He's Columbine: Viking Edition.

There's no depth or complexity there. He's mad because GW railroaded him into being the villain.

He's the most boring Elric ripoff in a setting with no less than four Elric ripoffs.

GW loves to tell us he's _____ incarnate and fluffs him like they have no other selling point, and use him as a plot device with no other importance. Shit, they've sucked him off so much that they even flanderized the Chaos Gods themselves to make him seem more central.

He's one of the newest posterboy characters in the setting on top of all that.

takes2long
takes2long

@idontknow
That and sunlight and enemy armies.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@takes2long
Point being, take Mannlet out of the equation and the other Sylvanian vampires will squabble, wander off, or turtle up, making them less of a factor for skaven cheesing around. No negotiations or deals necessary.

Actually the best thing to do might be to make a deal with Mannlet and later kill him anyway.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@Techpill
kindly no endtimes or age of sigmar, this is a safe space for turbo man babies who get more triggered by a sigmarine than a sjw when you assume their gender

Holy shit what a bunch of cucks

w8t4u
w8t4u

Every time vampires united, it failed badly for them.

Lahmia falls
Nagash falls
Mourkain falls
Vlad and Isabella die
Konrad dies
Mannfred becomes Shrek
Dreadfleet is destroyed
Age Of Sigmar happens

Bonus round
Chaos is allowed to return
Archaon gains dominion over a fuckton of souls

Methnerd
Methnerd

@Need_TLC
Viking Edition.
Archaon was Imperial
Shit, they've sucked him off so much that they even flanderized the Chaos Gods themselves to make him seem more central.
Which happened around SoC though.
He's one of the newest posterboy characters in the setting on top of all that.
Are we now talking about Age of Signal or what? Because Archaon existed as the bringer of the end times way longer before.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@BunnyJinx
That's the thing.

They turtle on Warpstone. They consume Warpstone.

With Mannfred, they are stuck on call and the Warpstone can be plundered or bartered for. Same as Dark Elves, better to work around than against.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Need_TLC
@Need_TLC
Wow, you just proved your autism and the fact you never read any book on Archaon.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Methnerd
Archaon was created for SoC.

Of all the main faction characters, he is the newest.

The fact they had to gimp the rest of Chaos so he could exist is terrible fucking writing.

Finally, his struggle isn't even against fate. Its against the terrible writing of the story he's in. If it was intended the story would have been unparalleled in meta and been amusing, but instead its just forced garbage.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@kizzmybutt
How's your Fyreslayer collection, Carnac?

Nojokur
Nojokur

@TalkBomber
These are skaven, though. Honoring deals is not a thing they do for extended periods of time. Besides, why barter when you can take?

I think the only relevant factor is the necromancy vamps can pull. Ratpower is practically free for the skaven, but that can work against them when it comes to fighting vampires.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@Nojokur
Again, they did it with the Dark Elves. Malekith was more useful alive as a destabilizing force, so they signed the pact.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@BinaryMan
originally written for her own setting
Drachenfels was written 5 years before Anno Dracula became a thing.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@TalkBomber
Archaon was created for SoC
Archaon existed since the 5th edition long before storm of chaos.
Are baiting here?

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Snarelure
Notably, skaven lore says that they *can't* beat elves - they've tried, and every time it's led to disaster. They're "saving them for last." I don't think we can draw any wider conclusions from that.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@hairygrape
Are you*

Snarelure
Snarelure

@hairygrape
In preperation for SoC.

He's not a classic character.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@CodeBuns
I think what's funny about ET is mobody actually ended up beating any of the main factions.

Dark Elves stopped being evil by losing the Curse of Khaine, Skaven forced Lizardmen to retreat to space, and everyone survived into AoS.

Fuck, even TK survived. They just lost their models.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@Snarelure
preparation
That was written 1997.
I doubt they had marketing planing this far ahead.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@LuckyDusty
he is just an AoS shill that know nothing about Warhammer, move along

Firespawn
Firespawn

@Stark_Naked
AoS shill
Hating Archaon

That's a contradiction in terms if there ever was one.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@Stark_Naked
That doesn't even make sense.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@Firespawn
I'm an AOS shill and think Archaeon is worse than the fact the game isn't oldworld au/myths.

6k points of sylvaneth, 3.2 of stormcast eternals, 4k of death.

Archaeon is a shit character for poobabies.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@Snarelure
what do you think of that new drycha- the imperial knight model? it hurts my eyes user
also durthu really is diifficult to construct my lord

Snarelure
Snarelure

@Need_TLC
even girls can do it and you cant ?

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Ignoramus
You can stop coming anytime

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@Need_TLC
No joke Drycha is what got me into sylvaneth. I fucking love that model. I HATED painting it but I think it's super cool. Would be better if she wasn't a ghost sticking out of it and was instead more similar to a bigger version of her old self, but eh, I'm still into it. Can see why it'd be polarizing though.

I stopped collecting sylvaneth because they're such a pain to paint. Seriously if painting him was anywhere near as easy as building him I wouldn't have death and stormcast.

I bought stormcast because painting all these trees was demoralizing and I just wanted an army I knew I would enjoy painting. Same with death after I got finished with stormcast.

Still not even fucking finished with the trees. I've got 2.9k painted.

girlDog
girlDog

@Snarelure
I'm actually doing it with my gf
as I foolishly offered to help thinking it would be a one evening job and I could go back to finishing my swordman, then GREATSWORDS

TreeEater
TreeEater

@girlDog
let your girl do it and make your greatsword.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@girlDog
Trick to building him.

Assemble his chest.

Basecoat everything.

THen build it.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@Need_TLC
you were not the only one to like it, I just felt it to me screams aos's biggest design problem. shit that looks like it belongs in 40k. I also like her old model so I suppose thats something

@TreeEater
but I need to make 18 user, 18!!!!

@Carnalpleasure
I figured painting once he is constructed would be hell on earth, currently just doing a blu tac dry run since he is primed.

has anyone here managed to build a second treeman from the spares on the sprue?

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@happy_sad
Sylv/Storm/Death user again.

At some point I gave up on plastic treemen and just bought metal ones off ebay for 3 times what they're worth. I actually kind of prefer the older tree men models from a painting perspective. Same with the treekin/dryads.

likme
likme

@Emberfire
d-don't come in to our safe space
Fuck off, there's only like six of you piss babies who actually sperg out when endtimes is mentioned, most of us either ignore it or maybe contribute to about 2 posts in a conversation about it. In fact, if it weren't for the stupid ass "n-no endtimes p-please!" Header no one would even talk about it at all. Putting it there might as well be bait

FastChef
FastChef

@GoogleCat
there's only about 6 spergs
clearly indicated the majority of this board doesn't care or doesn't participate in shit flinging
Oh wow, I bet you were feeling real good about yourself thinking I got BTFO. You can't even reading comprehension dude, just stop and admit that the sjw level triggered fags are a vocal minority

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@likme
No offense, we just only like Warhammer in our Warhammer thread. After all, you wouldn't post Heavy Gear or Gundam in the Battletech thread.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@GoogleCat
THE MADMAN BTFO HIMSELF BEYOND RECOVERY

Booteefool
Booteefool

@Evil_kitten
This. No one likes a derailed general thread.

TechHater
TechHater

@Need_TLC
I rather like everything the Sylvaneth has and I think AoS is pretty rubbish.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@viagrandad
eat the halflings, ogre can do it and so can we

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Evil_kitten
except this isn't even WHFB thread, its oldworld RP fluff thread.
The last 50 threads had no armylist (like no one plays this game anymore), 2-3 wip and a lot of SoC bashing because how AOS like it is and how speaking 7th and 8th is like shitting in your daughters mouth.
Either rename the thread or accept talk about SoC onwards and talk about archaon.
or create 1 oldhammer Zoat/Fimir fluffjerkingposting shitthread and let us discuss actual cannon and 8th here

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Emberburn
No one wants to talk about him except one guy. There isn't much to say about him.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@TalkBomber
If your using 1st edition, use the guide. If second I don't know.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Emberburn
There's been a few people trying to post army lists, and pictures of their miniatures, but they haven't been getting many responses.

This splitting mentality is pretty bullshit if you ask me - everyone should learn to get along in the general, since if people split off either one would die anyway. There was a point where WFB threads weren't showing up for days at a time, they were so slow. For a while people even kept them on weekends.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Emberburn
That's because if you like anything past 5th or bought a single miniature from GW beyond that point you are literally an abused whore.

Art went to shit and sculpt went from good to WOWshit.

Archaon doesn't exist in WHFB lore, It's SoC shit, Arbaal the Undeafeated is the only Canon chaos champion, SoC and everything after up to the endtimes is AoS tier Bullshit

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@TalkBomber
Archaon existed in the 5'th edition.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@TalkBomber
That's just like your opinion. I don't like Achaon either, but there are plenty of stuff I like up until the 7'th edition.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Stupidasole
yes and its merely SoC setup, so still not cannon no matter what you say

MPmaster
MPmaster

@TalkBomber
@VisualMaster
Calm your autism and step outside yourself.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@VisualMaster
it exists in the canon
but it's not canon

I think you really need to take a moment and think about what you're saying, if it makes sense, and if you should post more.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@VisualMaster
implying that the events leading up to the first half of SoC was actually shit

Christfuck. I bet you think Mordheim is also shit because the Shadowlord is Be'lakor.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@VisualMaster
Your headcanon =\= canon

Methshot
Methshot

@DeathDog
I've never heard this before, so I would love to hear where it's from.

The Liber Chaoticas. Very well written, and in the setting. Has enough in depth writing to start a cult, not that you should.

@FastChef
Its canon, that for all of their dwarf-broness and acceptance of elves, Imperials are pretty damn xenophobic of other humans, even within their own empire. The neighboring Provence is almost as untrustworthy and the neighboring country.

@5mileys
@Evilember
Its the warface makeup. I bet shes ok under it.

@BlogWobbles
Skaven are explicitly a stabilized form of beastman.

@TalkBomber
@Snarelure
Archaon was created for SoC.
He's not a classic character.

You have homework, young lady.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Techpill
Kindly no End Times or Age of Sigmar. It's not the same universe. Please go shill/troll elsewhere.
this salt

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@whereismyname
@GoogleCat
@Garbage Can Lid
@MPmaster

I bet all of you also think StarWars Prequels and episode 6 are cannon

Inmate
Inmate

@Emberburn
Either rename the thread or accept talk about SoC onwards and talk about archaon.
Talk about SoC isn't just allowed, it's common. Archaon isn't discussed much becaused he's not very interesting, it's just one or two guys that sperg out. But it's still allowed, because whatever you think of Archaon, you can still discuss him.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@TurtleCat
It's not salt, it's about not wanting unrelated, incompatible shit in the threads. There's an Age of Smegmar General if you're salty about it, and desperately want to discuss the End Times/Age of Shitmar setting.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Emberburn
except this isn't even WHFB thread,
Technically true. This is Warhammer Fantasy General.

its oldworld RP fluff thread.
Not true. The fluff tends to be discussed, because it is relevant across all games, but practically any of the WHF games can be discussed and are welcomed, TT or otherwise.

accept talk about SoC
There's been lots of talk about SoC lately, especially the potential of the post-SoC Empire, so I have no idea why you'd thinm it wasn't acceptable. The only thing barred is the End Times/Age of Shillmar setting, because some autists have issues keeping them seperate and accept that they're narratively, thematically and conceptually incompatible.

talk about archaon
People find him a flat character and will shit on fanboyist edgyness, but nobody ever said that discussing Archaon was unacceptable. He's been around for a very long time and is (unfortunately) as integral as any other major character. No idea why you'd think otherwise.

cannon
Cannons are also welcome.

8th
8th, although nearly universally reviled and vaguely just a set-up for the End Times/Age of Shillmar setting, is also reluctantly accepted.

5mileys
5mileys

@SomethingNew
Are you feeling okay?

Evilember
Evilember

@Methshot
Skaven are explicitly a stabilized form of beastman.
One thing does not exclude the other.

@viagrandad
But while I get there are big ways that could go in the future, how would the Empire survive the food shortages in the short term, without collapsing into anarchy or civil war?
As in real life, entire nations do not usually fall to famine. Anarchy and Civil War is really hard to do when you're hungry. There'll possibly be a lot of dead, but most will die during the upcoming autumn/winter, which will put even a greater damper on things, since it's very hard to travel in winter, in the Empire.

That said, there'll probably be riots and fighting in every major city. Some might also fall to Chaos Cults and actual anarchism. Even if Archaon and what remains of the armies won't counterattack as a unified force, it might take over a decade to play cleanup and before things stabilize, I'd say.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@Ignoramus
@TurtleCat
Is there not an AoS general right now? I have seen them about before.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@Evilember
As far as I remember one user saying, the Empire was just coming on winter, the north had been ransacked, the midland wasn't much better, and the south had already been picked clean to feed the huge armies massed against the forces of Chaos.

cum2soon
cum2soon

ive always heard skaven were a parody of british neonazis and the nazis as a whole

super science, undercutting of each other, bunch of braggarts, constant excuses for failures, cowardice when their back is to the wall, a vast collection of wretches promoting their own racial superiority, each individual views themselves as the "great leader"

that and stormvermin

add the sum of fantasy stereotypes about rats and you've got the skaven

there's really nothing stereotypically jewish about them.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@Garbage Can Lid
End times is set in the old world, with old world characters, immediately after the main setting stayed at for a while. Someone who got into AoS without ever reading into fantasy would have no fucking idea what the endtimes were even about. Even the characters who survived act very different than they did in endtimes. Endtimes is just as canon as the Star Wars prequels. It doesn't matter if you don't like it, it doesn't matter if it had midichlorian level setting breaking shit, it's still canon. AoS belongs in the AoS thread, but endtimes belongs here.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Booteefool
the south had already been picked clean to feed the huge armies massed against the forces of Chaos.
The soldiers fighting against chaos would have eaten either way and the nordlands aren't that fertile. However bands of raiders and beastmen everywhere, that's the problem.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@Spazyfool
WHRP
End Times
jej

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Spazyfool
Oh look it's this again.

Fine whatever, mention it as much as you like. Just don't bitch if noone pays attention to you

Also here is your (you)

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@cum2soon
there's really nothing stereotypically jewish about them.
except, you know, the scheming under society

viagrandad
viagrandad

@viagrandad
But while I get there are big ways that could go in the future, how would the Empire survive the food shortages in the short term, without collapsing into anarchy or civil war?
Let's see.

We are talking about a heavily forested land, trough forests are really dangerous. But you could argue that a lot of people are going to poach everything and everywhere, and since people will be desperate it can even be a force to "clean" some forests from the beastmen.

But it can go only for so long and the most devastated regions won't be able to feed their population so there will be a lot of displaced people.

The south probably still have food to survive winter even if it's scarce. The borders to bretonnia and the border princes will be able to survive on imported food, at a great cost.

The most desperate people from the northern regions will probably try to emigrate to the colonies in Lustria, the southlands or the border princes, especially those who lost everything.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Spazyfool
canon is meaningless, its all fiction. nothing happened "for real" because nothing in wh existed in the first place.

end times is shit and people want to ignore it when discussing whf, you'd have to be max level diapersperg to try to tell them they're not "allowed" to

Snarelure
Snarelure

@Sir_Gallonhead
may as well claim they are a parody of the catholic church or satanist cults at that point if youre going to look that hard to draw that conclusion

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Lunatick
I'm just saying, all that and then a famine upcoming - how would the Empire survive?

Bidwell
Bidwell

@CodeBuns
I don't think there would be that much of a famine : chaos attacked in winter, the crops were already reaped and the empire breadbasket is the south. The biggest problem is the population fleeing the north.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

Would the forces of Chaos have won the storm if pic related lazy fuckers have joined the war?

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Snarelure
not that hard to find some clear similarities with (((them))) the second name of the race is literally (((them))) in my city

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Burnblaze
Are these beastmen pinguins?
Please let them be beastmen pinguins

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Burnblaze
Maybe Chaos could have, maybe. But it also wasn't as much a matter of numbers as it was GW getting mad about things not meeting their narrative. From how they portrayed it, there's no way Chaos should not have won.

From that map alone you have to wonder why Beastmen haven't taken over the world yet. Even if they can't build a boat, they're on almost every continent.

WebTool
WebTool

@cum2soon
ive always heard skaven were a parody of british neonazis and the nazis as a whole
I've never even heard that suggested, and it would be extremely odd, considering that most of the things you describe are either not part of common views of "nazis", or aren't part of the common caricatures. The only thing that remotely fit would be Stormvermin.

It's actually a bit odd, when I think about it. There's no clear "nazi" stereotype or caricature in Warhammer Fantasy. In any other setting, I wouldn't consider this odd, but it is slightly weird, since Warhammer Fantasy pulls on so many tropes. They might've just considered it a bit too modernist or too obvious, I suppose.

there's really nothing stereotypically jewish about them.

poisoning wells
zionist council
the obvious comparison to rats
noses
plague monks
furs vs. beards
sneaky & conniving
debased, debauched
obsessed with wealth/warpstone
greedy to the point of satirical
matriarchal clans/bloodlines with large families
lairs & sewers vs. slums & ghettos
hiding from the gestapo rat-catchers
living under the city vs. living under the floor-boards

not a jewish caricature

DeathDog
DeathDog

@ZeroReborn
From that map alone you have to wonder why Beastmen haven't taken over the world yet.
GW isn't very good when it comes to scales, geography, logistics or common sense.
You could ask about nearly every faction why has x not already taken over the world?
From how they portrayed it, there's no way Chaos should not have won.
As the world was established before that's proably even true. One of their many mistakes was setting up a war setting then let the outcome be decided by completely different rules.
It's like and army charges a small outpost but who wins is decided by both leaders playing YuGiOh.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@TurtleCat
the whole jew = evil scheming rat thing is really the only thing that supports that, and that's more just to do with jews being compared to vermin in propaganda, and the people you play with being smooth brained memetards. they don't fit any other jewish stereotype past "theyre scheming rats lol". Yet again, might as well be any other minority group at that point. They swarm a lot, got buck teeth, and talk funny, they must be asians! They do drugs, are religious, and their women are fat breeders, they're mexican. Wait wait, they don't bathe spread germs, and break treaties, they're clearly British.

meanwhile, i reiterate... stormvermin. STORMVERMIN. gee i wonder what a bunch of British writers, who parodied soccer hooligans and other brit subcultures, were fans of Judge Dredd, who made cracks at Margaret Thatcher, were trying to caricature with their racist, amoral, super scientist slavers, who order around stormvermin?

RumChicken
RumChicken

@CouchChiller
surely the remains of the southern portal created mountains of madness so why not penguins?

happy_sad
happy_sad

Something that I find really entertaining about Bretonnia - and something that I think isn't expressed enough - are the ways that they have to work around their own codes and laws, which they are too proud to lax, but are far too strict to be feasible in a lot of cases.

Take this concept art, of all things - a minstrel that's actually a spy. You can't actually hire a spy, but you can hire a minstrel to perform at a rival's castle, and if he happens to be really good at recording information, well that's not your fault, is it?

Methshot
Methshot

And look at this! A peasant wants to have a crest like a knight, but I guess that they're illegal. So what do they do? Wear an union! It stands out, and the nobles can't imprison them for wearing an onion on their head, even if it looks stupid.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

And this is interesting - and not just because for some reason the dog has an onion hat.

It heavily implies that really the only educated men in Bretonnia are of the cloth - and the religious people in Bretonnia are nutty as fuck. Or, perhaps, to seperate themselves from the peasant rabble despite not being knights or nobles, they have to go out of their way to go 'look at me, I'm very important!'

farquit
farquit

@CouchChiller
First time I saw this picture I thought this is a jackal beastman.
Now I desperately want jackal beastmen in Arabia.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Spazyfool
AoS belongs in the AoS thread
Yes, this is correct.

but endtimes belongs here.
No, this is wrong. End Times belongs in the setting it belongs to, and shares it's assumptions, history, themes, concepts and ideas with. That is and was only ever Age of Sigmar, not Warhammer Fantasy. What it happened to be labeled with upon publishing is completely irrelevant.

@Booteefool
I was actually saying that the midland had been picked clean to feed the huge armies being there, and that the south (like much of the Empire) likely had many of it's workers pulled off the fields as well as having to feed armies that moved through.

The south is still a lot better off than the rest, I guess, but as a whole, it's a pretty shitty situation. Many cults may have played their hand in the Storm of Chaos, but there's no doubt many left, too, and they should be fairly active (and relentlessly hunted) in the coming months. Mutations also spiked around the time of the Storm of Chaos.

So to the whole list of shit going on (Volkmar returning/Sigmarite split, Archaon MIA, Valten "dead", possible famine, civil unrest, etc), we should probably add "Witch-hunters going fucking bananas in the wake of the Storm of Chaos".

@Lunatick
However bands of raiders and beastmen everywhere, that's the problem.
Yeah, we shouldn't forget that a lot of "sleeper tribes" or whatever we could call them "activated" in the Storm of Chaos. Even the introductionary adventure to WFRP2 has an incoming warherd *from the South* force the players towards Middenheim.

So it's not just that the Forest of Shadows is positively teeming with everything from Kurgans to Chaos Dwarfs, but Drakwald and Nattern are probably surging with beastmen that are engaging in guerilla warfare and major attacks even as the Storm of Chaos failed. They'll go back to the forests in time, as humans retreat to their invariably walled cities and towns, but it's going to be a major issue for a while.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@WebTool
christ almighty those comparisons are stretching things. "fur = beards" are you for real?

okay compare
https://eternalhunt.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/skaven-end-times-release-14.jpg
http://iwatchstuff.com/2012/11/01/wolfenstein-3d.jpg
https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/enterthegungeon.gamepedia.com/e/ee/Dr._Wolf%27s_Monster.png?version=83efda1f8b7e01aaa988a5f4cee7da6b

http://vermintide.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Globadier_Portrait.png
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/77/7f/27/777f2728afef52935307a015d86ac33d.jpg

https://drizhammer.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/warp-flame-thrower-front.png
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/a0/1e/a4/a01ea4b924455a581fb25b0adf0b1a2c.jpg

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2010/10/23/149890_md-Screaming%20Bell,%20Skaven,%20Warhammer%20Fantasy.JPG
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/27/bd/34/27bd3413fbb5b428deb7e4f9afb0d415.jpg

even past the lore/writing stuff, skaven aesthetic is based very clearly on nazi imagery. its not an overt parody: skaven don't goosestep, dress sharp, and give seig heils, but neither do Orcs watch soccer games, and Dwarves and Elves don't sing hail brittanica and eat fish and chips despite being parodies of the north/south divide in the British Isles

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Burnblaze
Would the forces of Chaos have won the storm if pic related lazy fuckers have joined the war?

I've always found that map.. I dunno.. too weird, somehow. They're like too concentrated blots of ink. I've never been a fan of it. I think there should've been more and much smaller dots, spread a lot more evenly. For example, going by this, Norsca is completely fucking teeming with beastmen, but beastmen are assholes to everyone, even norscans, who, despite usually worshiping some manner of chaos and raiding the shit out of the Empire, are actually relatively normal people just trying to stay alive.

It would also mean that there's no fucking beastmen in the Dark Lands at all. And I also think that while there should be a lot in the North and the South, there's just.. way too much. There's lots of chaos there, but that it would be so extremely dense in largely uninhabited regions is just weird, since beastmen types are given form by the fears of living things.

@CouchChiller
Of course there's penguin beastmen. There's probably some southpole inuit tribes that tell stories of monstrous penguins with four arms and shit.

farquit
farquit

@Crazy_Nice
All in all I don't think famine will be a problem short-term : by the time Chaos invaded, the harvest was done and by the end there was less mouth to feed than before. The biggest problems imo are refugees fleeing from war, cults and, once spring hits, chaos bands preying on the farmers.

WebTool
WebTool

@BlogWobbles
Thats going in the Book!

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

Are Lizardmen and Beastmen fights just canonically not a thing? I've never heard of beastmen making use of boats, and there are no warherds in Lustria.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@CouchChiller
Penguins are disgusting creatures. So I don't see why there wouldn't be Beastmen penguins.

@Crazy_Nice
The blots of ink is supposed to look like cancer tumours to demonstrate what a blight the Beastmen are upon the world.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@LuckyDusty
It's a thing in the southlands but not in lustria.

MPmaster
MPmaster

@LuckyDusty
I'm sure there are aquatic Beastmen that attacks Lustria. The Lizardmen also travels outside of Lustria because the Slann interpreded some instructions from the Old Ones to go somewhere else for some reason.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Gigastrength
christ almighty those comparisons are stretching things. "fur = beards" are you for real?
Most of them are not a stretch at all, and the fact that you had to single out the weakest one says a lot.

Also
end times
ww1 soldier
generic flamethrower
skaven runes = nazi symbols

Only the last one remotely comes close, and they might just as well be rune-style ("straight"/"chopped") hebrew.

skaven aesthetic is based very clearly on nazi imagery

Literally nothing is and I have no idea why you'd think so, beyond the "wyrd science" thing they've got going, which is common in modern interpretations of "sci-fi nazism" and is as much Frankenstein & Einstein as it is Wernher von Braun.

If you want to do a caricature of nazis, you stick to caricatures of the nazis, which is all about the sharp dressing, the oppressive authoritarianism, trains running on time, gas, and goose-stepping.

You know what's a common jewish caricature? Rats. You know what's not a common nazi caricatures? Greed, disorganization or anarchy.

Inmate
Inmate

@BlogWobbles
@TreeEater

how on Earth is Sigmar Conan?

Conan: Chaotic Neutral mercenary/thief/warrior/warlord/barbarian/murderer with little scruples, no respect for anyone, uneducated and rough, with severe wanderlust. Fucks any girl of the week he meets in his adventures and dumps her by next adventure.
Sigmar: Lawful Neutral/Good politician and warlord, hellbent on forging the Empire, and not for his personal power but the good of humankind. Puts great stock in home and education, starts somewhat barbaric, builds a rather enlightened capital. Only loved one woman; when she died declared that the Empire is his only love and so never married or took mistresses. Only fucked once with Azoborn queen to get her sign up to the Empire.

Only things they have in common are:
1) they are fucking massive beefcakes
2) they wear normal sensible clothes and armour in the books, but illustrations portray them wearing nothing but fur underpants.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@Inmate
You seem to have drunk too deep in the Sigmar-cult cool-aid.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Firespawn
read Heldenhammer and Empire

FastChef
FastChef

@Inmate
Only fucked once
If you believe this, there is no hope for you. You're the most holy Sigmar a dickless autist.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@FastChef
in the Empire she tried to get in his pants repeatedly, because he's apparently the best sex the ever had (and she wasn't exactly monogamous), but he decided he couldn't give any elector counts any preference, so he electorcountzoned her.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@Methshot
Skaven are explicitly a stabilized form of beastman.
Not only animals can become beastmen. I can go both ways.

WebTool
WebTool

@Inmate
no respect for anyone
He respected Crom.

Fucks any girl of the week he meets in his adventures and dumps her by next adventure.
A conspicuous element of Conan's character is his chivalry. He is extremely reluctant to fight women (even when they fight him) and has a strong tendency to save damsels in distress. In Jewels of Gwahlur, he has to make a split-second decision whether to save the dancing girl Muriela or the chest of priceless gems which he spent months in seeking, and with no hesitation he saves the girl and lets the treasure be irrevocably lost. In The Black Stranger Conan saves the exile Zingaran Lady Belesa at considerable risk to himself, giving her as a parting gift a fortune in gems big enough to have a comfortable wealthy life in Zingara, and asking for no sexual favors in return.

Only things they have in common are
They are barbarian kings who loved adventuring, killing evil sorcerers and demons.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@farquit
Given that Araby is inspired by the entire Middle East, including partly Egypt, I would be shocled if there weren't jackal beastmen, especially since jackals eat carrion and can be legit dangerous in packs.

I am now imagining jackalbeasts running in a mixed pack towards me and it's horrifying. Could just lift the stats of Kroot right from WH40kRP and fuck my shit up.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Supergrass
As far as I know, usually, it's only human-to-beastman. Southern beastmen might be animal-to-beastman, but it's only hinted at, them being "true" beastmen.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@FastChef
*you're calling

Supergrass
Supergrass

@King_Martha
I honestly think Skaven are a mixture of every 'evil regime' in history. Nazis are present in things like stormvermin and a level of obsession with purity, they have all the corruption and bickering of communist China at its worst, they have the skills in guerrilla warfare of the Viet Cong...I can only thing of modern examples, but you could probably throw in a little Nero and Caligula and any other cruel regime or leader or 'evil' faction you can think of.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@King_Martha
trains running on time

Booteefool
Booteefool

@WebTool
well obviously. stories are rather PG-13.
Fafhrd and Grey Mouser always choose to save girls over wealth, but they fuck around all the same and dump their girls by the next story. that's how adventurer archetypes live, no variance there.

5mileys
5mileys

@King_Martha
trains running on time

w8t4u
w8t4u

@King_Martha
I'm not going to hold your hand on this and do line by line peer reviews of your shit. The examples you listed are not thematic/aesthetic traits, just you pulling weaksauce racial caricatures out of a hat to fit your argument. They are all equally stupid. Plague monks, a very clear parody of catholic religious ceremonies, are jewish? Where's the yamluk? "Noses"? What, a muzzle is a jewish trait now? Is Zootopia antisemetic? You don't even seem to get skaven lore at all. "Matriarchal" based skaven clans? Breeders are interchangeable, bro.

The reason you don't "get it"? Beyond the fact you're not as smart as you seem to believe you are, its because, yet again, they were created in 80's Great Britain, by a Dredd loving nerds. Your idea of what "everyone" thinks Nazis are like is completely irrelevent. It was, and still is in many circles, a common parody of Nazis being a bunch of incompetent tottering doofuses, obsessed with world conquest and purging the "lesser" races. The "neonazi = idiot" trope is so common its got a TvTropes page on it. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThoseWackyNazis

Skaven was also derivative as fuck: the clear literary origin of the skaven was from The Swords of Lankhmar, not some tween dipshit trying to stat up his super clever Jew-Rat race for DnD. Fritz Leiber was an actually good writer.

The only thing you can cling to is the meme "jews == rats (they were also squids and mosquitoes) and your reasoning "so skaven must be jewish!". Imagine if the skaven were human; what about their aesthetic is jewish? What is jewish about a connection with Not-Japan? What is jewish about using flamethrowers, machine gun, lethal gas? About using evil surgical techniques on hapless prisoners? About retarded super science projects that blow up comically? And, yet again, _STORMVERMIN_.

also in maus the jews were mice, and you missed the ENTIRE POINT of the use of animals as races in that comparison as well.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@Inmate
Read "The Scarlett Citadel" and you might see some similarities.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@WebTool
@King_Martha
Let's not forget
god's chosen people

@Gigastrength
skaven aesthetic is based very clearly on nazi imagery
very clearly
Ah, yes, the traditional uniforms of the SS and the heer, obviously.

Aside from the "Storm" in Stormvermin, the perfect opportunity for a fascistoid caricature, down to the goose-stepping, not even they can be interpreted as "nazi" in terms of imagery and aesthetics; at a stretch they're roman-esque at best.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Inmate
uneducated

Wrong. Conan speaks like 20-30 languages, can even read some dead languages and has read the Hyborian Necronomicon.

Methshot
Methshot

@Crazy_Nice
hm, I knew he could speak virtually anything, but I forgot he could actually read. plus I also meant other academic knowledge. Sigmar showed interest in engineering, natural sciences, etc - as much as they were applicable to Empire-building, anyway

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@w8t4u
What, a muzzle is a jewish trait now? Is Zootopia antisemetic?
not understanding context
I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were autistic. My apologies.

they were created in 80's Great Britain
Don't fit with contemporary (or modern) stereotypes or caricatures of neo-nazis either, especially not the skinheads and such in 80's Britain.

trope is so common its got a TvTropes page on it.
If you took the time to read the page, you'd realize that it barely relates to Skaven, even tangentially. So.. thanks for sinking your own point.. I guess?

The only thing
There's many things, as has been shown.

Imagine if the skaven were human; what about their aesthetic is jewish?
About their aesthetic? Practically nothing, other than arguably a few semitic influences like the eshin/hashishin. But that's ignoring the point that if you make the Skaven anything other than rats, their entire aesthetic changes. Their key aesthetic is that they're rats. We're also dealing with caricatures here, so the raggard, haggard living-in-filth-ism fits the jewish aesthetic to a tee.

If you want to do some modernist political interpretation "from the 80's", you're still much closer to punks and/or the antifa with that caricature.

also in maus the jews were mice, and you missed the ENTIRE POINT of the use of animals as races in that comparison as well.
No, I didn't miss the point at all, but you seem to have missed the point of using mice as representatives of what was usually referred to as rats.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@w8t4u
You seem tremendously offended over someone using a caricature, user. You also don't seem to understand what a caricature is, looking way, way too hard for connections past the caricature, and you seem to be equating identifying one with supporting one.

Are you, by any chance, one of God's Chosen People?

whereismyname
whereismyname

I'm probably the only one who cares, but I'd love to know if there's any fluff for not!African city-states or kingdoms in the Southlands. Mainly because I find it odd that no one seems to have set up colonies or trade posts there if it's just empty, because tapping into that sweet Cathayan trade. Araby just vaguely gets a hold of it somehow, but it'd be cool to have a few potential middlemen, even just Arabyan settlements.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@whereismyname
Well, there is the Wiwuzz Kangdom, but information about them is really spotty.

girlDog
girlDog

There're no Four Chaos Gods, there's only Tzeentch who's pretending to be Four just to fuck with people.

And then I'll also become a god who hates magic! And all magic haters will worship him! That is still me! Aahahha!

There's no way to disprove it, because it's totally something Tzeentch would have done.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Methshot
Conan seems to be more educated on myths and legends which actually does apply to the reality Conan lives in. Advanced engineering is less of a thing in Hyboria than it is in Warhammer.

Sigmar knew that the dwarves has engineering and he wanted to get in on that. However, Sigmar is partly inspired from Conan rather than a carbon copy of him, which some people seems to think he is.

askme
askme

@GoogleCat

gee i wonder why they dressed up the nazi parody race in clothing that could fit in a fantasy setting? the 1977 flick Wizards was a ton more overt with the bad guys taking up nazi aethetics thing and even they didn't get outfitted by Hugo Boss https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzYtOFOXS6g

like fuck man do they need to wear stalheims and go HEIL HITLER for the comparison to be clear to you dorks? I'm guessing I'm arguing with actual anti-semitic kids here so, maybe so.

also stormvermin being roman-esque, gee i wonder what other group borrowed a lot of imagery/aesthetic from rome?? obviously the jews, lol

also
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyY08ch8oxs yeah i guess they made the stormvermin goosestep because uhhhhh idkkk its confusin

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-itNr3L3GC0Y/U9Tz0FQfOcI/AAAAAAAAAqM/21wEx66f3OQ/s1600/5.+Storm+Vermin.Black+Skaven.jpg
http://cdn1.ima-usa.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/88decfed4fba5801a7dc8e03047eb978/w/h/wh1034__3.jpg

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@Evil_kitten
good point

still, Conan's wanderlust is such a major (main even) feature of him, that it's hard for me to imagine him and Sigmar as similar characters

Snarelure
Snarelure

@King_Martha
trains run on time

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Firespawn
why is Groot wearing boxing gloves?

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@Deadlyinx
Sigmar did wander off in the end. It's also not like Sigmar was a fully realised character until just a few years ago in the Warhammer fantasy lifespan.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Stark_Naked
Sigmar wandering off was mostly a nod to legends that Jesus didn't Ascend but wandered off into the East. There's apparently his final grave somewhere in the mountains near China, IIRC.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Bidwell
They lost their option for the shotgun version, well fuck me, thats what Chaos Dwarfs were always about, that sweet, sweet blunderbuss(and big hats, and artillery).

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Boy_vs_Girl
short gun
bit tall hat
do they keep their guns in their hats on the march?

askme
askme

I remember there was a hilarious warhammer beauty pageant comic?.. anyone still got it? can't find it.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Harmless_Venom
Can't it be both?

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@BlogWobbles
lmfao dude im serious, are you for real? i mean shit you ignore like 75% of the shit i write then try to defend the "noses" bit. you don't have a goddamn leg to stand on dude, just quit.

man i just wanna leave it at that but lmfao ESHIN ARE HASHISHIN. YES CLEARLY THE RATS OF NIPPON ARE BASED OFF THE MUSLIM ASSASSINS. the most weeaboo fuckin thing on earth is now "semitic" get the fuck out, holy lol.

"their entire aesthetic changes" lmao you intentionally dense motherfucker, what is this? i dont know who youre trying to fool here, i told you im not gonna hand hold you if you wanna pull weak dodges like this. And you had the gall to accuse me of being evasive.

also since you seem to like TvTropes but cant navigate to save your life, here you go: "In Warhammer, the Skaven are seen as very analogous to the Third Reich, what with their super technology, horrifying experiments, rune iconography (one of the more commonly used ones is a swastika-styled triskelion), disregard for human life, plan to conquer the world by killing everyone worthless (i.e. everyone, period) and the fact they have a unit called "Storm Vermin".

"there's many things, as has been shown" ahaha nerd get your head out of your ass, you haven't shown a goddamn thing. well, other than not knowing the difference between "parody" and "caricature".

also read maus again. or read it once, since it seems like you missed a shit ton of subtext.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

The Skaven are based on conspiracy theories. That's why everyone in the Old World disregards them as myth.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@Stupidasole
nonsense. you can't really believe that.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Stupidasole
everyone
Do dwarves?

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Supergrass
Yeah, the rats being gooks makes a lot more sense than the rats being kikes

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@whereismyname
There is the imperial city of Sudenburg

Illusionz
Illusionz

@askme
It was by the guy that does those skaven comics, like the 'strength in numbers' one.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Illusionz
huh? ain't seen that one. got it maybe?

5mileys
5mileys

@AwesomeTucker
I guess it appeared rather unexpectedly?

whereismyname
whereismyname

@5mileys
Heh

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@haveahappyday
Dwarfs are not people.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

What if Empire was run by Lord Vetinari?

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Burnblaze
you ignore like 75% of the shit i write
I don't ignore it, I just don't cite it, either because it's irrelevant or otherwise addressed anyway.

YES CLEARLY THE RATS OF NIPPON ARE BASED OFF THE MUSLIM ASSASSINS

Based? No. They're more ninja than anything; I was referring partially to the aesthetics, but primarily to the name. Anyone that knows where the concept of "assassin" comes from would understand this.

what is this?
At this point, you've really run out of arguments, haven't you?
accuse me of being evasive.
I wasn't accusing you, I was telling you in which way you were.

"In Warhammer, the Skaven ...."
Hahaha, well, that section is clearly based on the same flawed "logic" (or lack thereof) as your own argument here.

It basically comes down to "evil" and "super-science".

That said, that also seems to be from a completely different page than the one you cited.

You argued aesthetics. There is none. You argued "those wacky nazis", which isn't even close to being applicable to the skaven.

ahaha nerd get your head out of your ass
At this point, if you had anything except insults, and could actually substantiate your theory that the Skaven are based on nazi caricatures or common stereotypes relating to such, you would've done so.

Do you have anything at all, other than "SCIENCE!", "they're evil", and that "Storm" is used in relation to their best warriors?

Because I'm telling you, it's pretty damn weak.

askme
askme

@TalkBomber
complains about art going to shit
posts shit art

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Stupidasole
The Skaven are based on conspiracy theories. That's why everyone in the Old World disregards them as myth.
Partially, definitely. They're the underground shadowy race of rats. They're basically lizard-people from hollow earth inspired by "the protocols of the elders of zion" and "the eternal jew". The fact that nobody in The Empire knows about them just reminds me of the text "The Skaven are real, and they are among us!", a banned pamphlet/text much like the protocols of zion.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@haveahappyday
Do dwarves?
No, dwarfs know about the Skaven and have battled them since forever. They've lost several holds to them, and dwarfs used to have major underground highways between the various holds, but have since lost control of the vast majority of them to the Skaven.

In my personal headcanon, half the reason the dwarfs don't take a greater interest in the world is that although they can hold the Skaven at bay just fine, it's a constant struggle.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@CodeBuns
@Stark_Naked
@Evil_kitten
@Burnblaze
@TalkBomber
thanks user

farquit
farquit

@haveahappyday
It would be a good place to store a lot of powder and shot. Could be dangerous if the enemy scores a lucky headshot, though...

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@farquit
hatshot

headshot is dangerous either way

Illusionz
Illusionz

@Emberfire
Okay, lets summarize

Literary origin: The Swords of Lankhmar, by Fritz Leiber. Who, mind you, is not an anti-semite.
Their creators: A bunch of leftist nerd dweebs, inspired by writers like autist anarchist Moorcock, who included a character named Mag Uruk Thraka in their games. No reason for them to go for "jews are rats lol"

Aesthetic/Thematic/Ideological commonality: nordic inspired runes, flamethrowers, lethal gas, racial supremacist dogma, reduction of women to breeders of the next, dreams of global conquest of the lesser races, has dudes literally fucking named "stormvermin" in their rank, followers are cretins and flunkies, its leaders are braggarts, break treaties, mindlessly infight with each other. Mad Scientists obsessed with super weapons, create Frankensteins, connections with Japan, have a religious wing accused of worshiping occultist deities, enslave "lesser" races to do their work, clear analogs for many setpiece figures such as storm fiends with nazis in other fiction, use of anachronistic elements commonly related with the german military such as gas masks, flamethrowers, grenades. don't bathe enough.

Your argument, as best I can understand... is "i believe the jewish people share many characteristics with vermin, so 80's GW designed them as a parody of the Jewish people, because everyone is as fundamentally retarded as i am." despite things like "deadly bio-mechanical creatures that shit lightning" not having much at all to do with jewish caricatures as opposed to nazis in pulp fiction.

You can close your eyes and plug your ears all you want, and you can keep believing what you want to believe, but I really wish you'd make some serious arguments at some point. This has been a good waste of time for me, but honestly dude, it's just gotten sad. like, seriously, little line by line citations? I thought that died out in 90's era gamefaqs: its bad writing, and in this case, it only makes it more obvious when you try to bypass arguments.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

so what are Border Princes like? sorta like Wild West? I see they are larger than Tilea, about the same size as Bretonnia. I guess there can be any kind of shit out there?

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Need_TLC
Balkans I guess

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Illusionz
different user, but holy shit... now I'll have to look at my skaven differently.

and funny thing, I've been giving my skaven heroes fancy cloaks with epaulets like the ones prussian army officers had.

Inmate
Inmate

@ZeroReborn
why Beastmen haven't taken over the world yet
1)They're not unified, like at all. They all really kinda hate each other.
2)They suck

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Inmate
They're also stupid cretins and cowards.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Inmate
They all really kinda hate each other.
but why though
they're all children of chaos
why would they hate each other
do they perhaps in reality just hate THEMSELVES?
spooky huh

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Illusionz
"i believe the jewish people share many characteristics with vermin"

The fact that you've "understood" the issue like this and is most likely a jew explains why you're so tremendously butthurt over the interpretation that the original skaven were based on caricatures of jews, and just reveals how retarded you are.

Either that, or you're consciously misunderstanding in order to troll, or you're purposefully pitching a straw-man.

little line by line citations?
At this point, you've lost so hard you can't attack anything other than "lol that wryting style looks so stupid! you're stupid!", aside from trying to inject misdirected politicism based on your own preconceptions and misjudgements, ignoring the fact that everything Warhammer Fantasy was originally built on stereotypes and caricatures to begin with.

You seem to be way, way, way too political to be able to interpret anything fairly, and way too personally invested. I'm glad the setting wasn't designed by someone like you. I'll take "casual racism" and "intentional caricatures and stereotypes" over "200% ideologically infused strawmanning" and "incomprehensibly subtle political posturing" any day of the week.

MPmaster
MPmaster

Page 7 and at bump-limit!

New Thread!
/tg/thread/51183240#p51183240
/tg/thread/51183240#p51183240
/tg/thread/51183240#p51183240
/tg/thread/51183240#p51183240
/tg/thread/51183240#p51183240

cum2soon
cum2soon

@StonedTime
u r a joo
Nice argument faget

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@BlogWobbles
They're the redheaded stepchildren of chaos, each having more daddy issues than the last

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@StonedTime
you mad ;)

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