People actually think this

King_Martha
King_Martha

But GM, rockets and machine guns exist in your setting all the monsters in the world should be dead!

People actually think this. It really wants me to stop GMing sometimes honestly.

All urls found in this thread:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_gun
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0679887512/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_oJeEyb4HQJ8K5
happy_sad
happy_sad

The solution is simple.
Give all of the monsters guns too.

w8t4u
w8t4u

Well, would the monsters be killed by usual rockets or machine guns? Monsters are magical and could easily shrug off such blows.

likme
likme

@King_Martha
im a shitty GM who cant explain what the supernatural in my setting can and cant do
Feel free to stop being a GM. You's be doing the world a favor.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@King_Martha
If your monsters can be killed by skilled individuals with swords then they can easily be killed by randoms with rifles.

Playboyize
Playboyize

@likme
inb4 you dismiss my totally correct reply because of the spelling error

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@hairygrape
What if it has to be particular magic swords, like Shadow of the Colossus or Rance?

SniperWish
SniperWish

@happy_sad
Ha!

@w8t4u
Really the easiest explanation is that the giant size of dragons reduces the damage of guns for obvious reasons and that the army isn't going to hunt down every dragon in existence.

TechHater
TechHater

@likme
Is love you to explain everything in the Star Wars universe.

Inmate
Inmate

@Burnblaze
Then you'd need randoms with particular magic rifles.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@King_Martha
I can't stand that shit, I mean it's easy to explain it you could do it a thousand ways with the simplest being to tell them to "shut up that's just how shit works faggot"
The fact that they can't suspend disbelief and just roll with it kills me, motherfucker you where fine with a lizard the size of a duplex flying and breathing fire but this is where I lose you

Lunatick
Lunatick

Could a creature realistically have a thick enough hide to prove significantly resistant to modern guns, assuming size limitations like diet and square-cube arent a problem?

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Lunatick
if the hide is made of some kind of naturally existing graphene armor an layered several milimeters thick, with substantial hard bony plates to provide rigidity, then you it would deflect machine gun fire quite well

takes2long
takes2long

@Lunatick
Probably but you also have to consider that these things are huge anyway and a regular rifle bullet isn't going to do that much. Of course you could also explain it under the Godzilla rule.

w8t4u
w8t4u

Could gunfire-breathing dragons be a thing in such a setting?

Methnerd
Methnerd

@King_Martha
It appears your setting seems inconsistent and you're blaming players. You're probably a shit DM and should kys.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@w8t4u
I don't see why not.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@King_Martha
if all your monsters are godzilla-esque we shouldnt have a problem

mosnters who exist to remind us that for all of our guns and missiles, we are still only specks beholden to nature are probably the theme you want

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Emberburn
Godzilla is absolute shit and everybody who likes it is a mouthbreathing aspie. It's litrally on the same level of retardation as pony-faggotry.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Methnerd
My main issue is really that they seem to think that a gun is a fucking death ray. Plus it's that sort of shit were I've found massive inconsistencies in Star Wars, 40k, etc. but I never say anything and suddenly something I made is under scrutiny when we've played in stupider settings than this.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@TurtleCat
I wonder who's behind this post

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@TurtleCat
You're probably on the wrong website mate.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@Methnerd
Hold up. We know absolutely nothing about OP's setting other than two facts.
1) There's monsters, presumably dragons and that kinda stuff
2) There's self propelled rockets and fully automatic firearms

Where's the inconsistency you cuck, tell me.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@TurtleCat
Well this is the saddest post I've seen all night.

Here's the (You) (You) wanted, little boy.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@SniperWish
There are some Tank shells and Missiles that might penetrate any kind of natural armor. But think about how resilient the human body is to being shot. These gigantic monsters would easily shrug off AP shells even if they penetrate. While retaliating with their fire breath/claws/tail/whatever.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@TurtleCat
shut up ghidorah, i thought they banned you

Playboyize
Playboyize

@Spazyfool
With that kind of thinking you could have it to where rifle bullets and shotgun pellets would bounce off unless you're really great at aiming.

Techpill
Techpill

@Sharpcharm
How about different kinds of gunfire dragons?

You have your standard, a dragon that breaths a shitton of bullets

but also, say, a two headed dragon that fires solid walls of munitions

or a long necked, eagle eyed dragon that can spot prey from miles and miles away, then suddenly fires a bullet the size of a small house. not to eat it, but for sport.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@King_Martha
>But GM, rockets and machine guns exist in your setting all the monsters in the world should be dead!
What is Delta Green?
What is Unknown Armies?

Sometimes, the scariest monster isn't the one that can eat you or tear your head off.

Evilember
Evilember

@Techpill
I'm just imagining this metal dragon with a Gatling gun popping out of it's mouth.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@Snarelure
what if it just eats the bullets?

WebTool
WebTool

@Snarelure
@Techpill
@w8t4u
thats some "enter the gungeon" tier dragons right there

they are awesome

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@SniperGod
Nah. The monster eats your dreams, hopes and turn you into a lifeless husk, a shadow of former self.
The monster is called society.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@StonedTime
My main issue is really that they seem to think that a gun is a fucking death ray
It pretty much is, against humanoids, because that's what we've been fighting for the last 500 years of firearm-history. If kaijus existed, every city would have armor piercing or shock guns and any monster posing a significant threat to mankind above the size of mosquitos would have gone the way of the dodo. There's a reason why there are no wolves around anymore.

My main issue is really that they seem to think that a gun is a fucking death ray
Because you're an aspie. These settings have perfectly in-universe-logic explanations for their stuff.

@AwesomeTucker
@GoogleCat
Kaijus are cancerous and their fans are manchildren like tranformers fans, all style over substance.

@Fuzzy_Logic
If mankind has actually faced these creatures overr their history they would have used the technology they possess to develop countermeasures. Assuming he gives those monsters absurd dermal armor to withstand direct impacts of explosives, there would be armor--piercers akin to bunker busters to pierce said armor. If they were super nimble, people would have developed high-firing-rate fast-tracking cannons in fortified positions.

It all stems from that retarded attempt to have a natural creature "be viable" against technological advancement when the latter happens at billions of times the speed of biological evolution. If you have a race with technology, you need a VERY VERY good reasoning why it hass not wiped out all it's natural threats already.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@StonedTime
Plus it's that sort of shit were I've found massive inconsistencies in Star Wars, 40k, etc
Because you're an aspie. These settings have perfectly in-universe-logical explanations for their stuff.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@Stupidasole
Perfectly logical
Star Wars
Pick one.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@CouchChiller
There's a reason why there are no wolves around anymore.
wat

Snarelure
Snarelure

@haveahappyday
I think he's talking about first-world countries.

Evilember
Evilember

@Spazyfool
I apply our universes logic to Star Wars
My brain has developed beyond the equivalent of an 4 year old
Pick one

FastChef
FastChef

@King_Martha
They are about 3000 years too late, really. We had pretty much killed the land-based megafauna by that point.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@Snarelure
That's not even true in first world countries though.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@New_Cliche
The problem is that roleplay is not traditional fantasy, it's more like science fiction.

Fantasy is about the exploration of the art of story telling, not so much the exploration of the world of the movie.

Science fiction is, generally, about the implications of a certain technology or era or way of life and exploring the social and philosophical consequences of that.

When you gamify a sword and sorcery setting you've already put the participants in the mindset of deconstruction and world exploration. Nobody really plays RPG's to push the limits of the hero's arc or some shit.

SO when the world has inconsistencies it irritates the players because it is the focus of the game, not the narrative elements.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@Evilember
There's a level of assmad I haven't seen in a while. You sure you don't have some autism buddy?

Soft_member
Soft_member

Having read the posts in this thread I have found that I can still be surprised by the sheer level of autism the average Veeky Forums poster exhibits

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@CouchChiller
All possible monsters are "natural creatures", incapable of intelligence or adapting

Also

Technology is my precious waifu! No stinking monster or magic can touch her! She teleports behind the monsters because she moves at billions of times the speed of your pathetic beasts!
Dude. I agree that there has to be a sensible reconciliation between advanced technology and monsters that requires a very good explanation, but calm the fuck down.
Monsters can easily trump tech in any number of ways.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Playboyize
Isn't that pretty much what killong smaug in The Hobbit was about? Magic black arrow fired at a weakpoint by an expert bowman.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@Fried_Sushi
When you gamify a sword and sorcery setting you've already put the participants in the mindset of deconstruction and world exploration and when the world has inconsistencies it irritates the players
Okay this is true and seemed to be your main point.
The rest of your post is shit.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@Soft_member
I'm actually surprised by the sheer level of autism my posts on Veeky Forums exhibits.
Not in this thread so much, yet.
But I was genuinely asked if I had autism yesterday.

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Evil_kitten
I think this guy might be from /k/

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@likme
muh realism
Whatever.

TechHater
TechHater

@Soft_member
Honestly I can't say I really am.

JunkTop
JunkTop

@RavySnake
So you're saying I misidentified his waifu?
It's really his precious guns?

Damn. It fits better.
I think you might be right.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@likme
You will never feel anything since you don't even get to play tabletop outside of online, judging from your attitude.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@JunkTop
Given the autistic level of detail he went into for bullets I'd say it makes the most sense.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@CouchChiller

Are you retarded and did you never even venture once into the countryside for the dozen of years you existed on earth?

Did everyone despise you so much on first contact that nobody, not even friendly villagers, even want to talk further to you?

Because if you can maintain a conversation without pissing everyone off with your delusions, you did realize wolves are still huge problems in both UK, Europe and America.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@happy_sad
And then he pulls out the RPG

likme
likme

@Soft_member
Faggots from /k/ who never play make believe come here to whine about their guns and full body armor all the time.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@Bidwell
Such a great game.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Supergrass
I can only speak for Germany, but until recently, Wolves were wiped out here. Then we let them back in again from and there are a few now along the german/polish border

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Poker_Star
tfw you beat the dragun but forgot to pick up the bullet to the past

TreeEater
TreeEater

how retarded can you be ?

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@King_Martha
I love the old cliche of cops/soldiers running into a monster and screaming "IT WONT DIE!!" while shooting wildly

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@Bidwell
Someone post that manga page of skeletons with RPGs ambushing a tank convoy. I can't find it.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@King_Martha
All the rockets and machine guns are in bottom of god forsaken dungeons.

Besides they wouldn't help much anyway, 90% of the characters die to rats.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@King_Martha
Nigga just look at real life. Fucking sharks and bigfeet and shit.

Last I checked monsters were still alive and terrifying because 99% of the population doesn't take their anti vehicle rifle to the fucking park with them.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Deadlyinx
Wait bigfoot?

I thought you said real life.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@CouchChiller
You realize that grizzly bears are generally able to shrug off one or two shots by small arms fire, and yet most North American, Russian, or Eastern European villages do not generally have a community machinegun to deal with bears, right?

And yes, wolves still exist and do kill people, you fucking retard.

It all stems from that retarded attempt to have a natural creature "be viable" against technological advancement when the latter happens at billions of times the speed of biological evolution.

Generally speaking, monsters in fantasy are not the result of biological evolution.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Emberfire
Open your eyes. He's right over there. Fuck.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@LuckyDusty
Don't forget that if these monsters have always existed then getting to the point of having machine guns at all is going to be a struggle for people. Then there are the logistics of monster hunting. What are you going to do, have an entire country's military walk shoulder to shoulder from coast to coast locking arms with the squad automatic weapon to their left and right?

Why wouldn't monsters just try to avoid that sort of thing, strike while people's guard was down. Stalk the weak, the isolated.

And if monsters haven't always existed, and are now just a thing ala shadowrun. Fuck op, all rules are off at that point to begin with.

MPmaster
MPmaster

@CouchChiller
It pretty much is

A gun is not a death ray.

People survive being shot all the time. There are cases of people being absolutely riddled with bullets and managing to drag themselves to hospital.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@haveahappyday
I guess he meant "wolves are not a real threat present in most forests, but a somewhat endangered species now"

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@Snarelure
Wolves are also not:
Incorporeal
Fire breathing
Resistant or immune to most forms of physical harm
Able to use magic
Able to fly
Able to become invisible
Able to posses people
Made of literal lightning
Capable of swimming through solid rock
Capable of bending nature around themselves as if literal gods
Telepathic
Secretly witches
Covered in spikes
ETC

takes2long
takes2long

@Fuzzy_Logic
Covered in spikes

I don't know why anything isn't this. Being covered in spikes is nature's answer to everything.

Why would you ever develop to not be covered in spikes?

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@LuckyDusty
To my knowledge there hasn't been any humans killed by wolves since 2011. Please inform me if I am wrong, but it seems people overestimate wolves alot.
I wouldn't mess around with bears though, they are natures fluffy tank, ignoring rhinos and elephants.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Evil_kitten
Well, memetic (including g technological) evolution can literally be billions times faster than natural.

So you have to do some fitting to implement kaiju (hard to defeat monsters) in a high-tech setting.
A) Kaiju are a recent thing, and humans still haven't adapted/developed weapons to fight them. If we manage to hold them back for long enough.
B) Kaijus are more like a natural disasters both in terms of sheer power and how often they attack. But I heard that Tsar Bomb managed to wound a dragon, so we can fight them in the future.
C) Kaiju breeding grounds are out of reach and they repopulate quickly (some magma worms I.e.)

eGremlin
eGremlin

@takes2long
Because it makes reproduction harder and it is a highly specialized defense from natures side. Or well, let's just admit it, it makes banging harder.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@CouchChiller
But in most situations kaiju show up halfway through human development. And if humanity were fighting kaiju throughout their development, they would not have developed. There's a reason that mammals didn't really become a big thing until after an extinction event killed off the dinosaurs. Either way, your arguments are kind of silly.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@RumChicken
Explain again the natural evolution rate of dragons, vampires, fairy witches, and blink dogs?

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@StonedTime
If a gun isn't a death cannon you're not using a big enough gun. The gun is the ultimate form of the three basic caveman killing strategies: throw a rock at it, light it on fire, or poke it with something sharp.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@eGremlin
I was gonna say this.
Porcupines must have a very vanilla sex life.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@LuckyDusty
Bears can hold a few pistol bullets
That's why you use hunting rifles to hunt bears. If it poses danger, it gets shot. End of the story.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Booteefool
That's (A) variant of Kaijus in high-tech setting: recently created by god/magician. Also, blink dogs are most likely to evolve from giant blink racoons (now extinct).

happy_sad
happy_sad

@w8t4u
They're into watersports actually.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@Fuzzy_Logic
I don't think the native peoples of Wyoming have anything to fear from Godzilla. Just saying.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Poker_Star
anyone in california though...
they can send their spears, their slings, their swords, but no weapon will help against godzilla

eGremlin
eGremlin

@TurtleCat
Actually, you'll also want the right ammo.

And even then, you want a solid, clean shot into the heart or lungs (or head, preferably, but whatever, not everyone is a great shot). Even when shot in the heart by a large caliber, it can take up to thirty seconds for a grizzly to actually realize it's dead. So make sure you actually hit something important or that's you done.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@eGremlin
In addition to this:

The best way of dealing with bears is honestly to avoid them. Even if fully equipped to kill one, every time you meet an aggressive grizzly is a huge risk on your part, so just... don't put yourself in that position often.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Poker_Star
Godzilla is more like a superhero than a monster.

He's basically Giant Lizard Wolverine.

takes2long
takes2long

@Boy_vs_Girl
depends, he is more like the hulk than wolverine, only to be brought out when having half the city wrecked is better than having it all wrecked

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@VisualMaster
Ehh fuck 'em. Point is giant monsters interacting with a human population will not mean that population will cease to develop.

Giant monsters have their own territories like everything else, large territories mind you, but unless they fully overlap all of the land suitable for human habitation all the time, they aren't going to be a game ender.

Techpill
Techpill

@King_Martha
So. There's a shitton ways to explain. From the field, which protects them against material objects flying into them on high velocity, to their regenerative powers. Or "its magic dude, if you will charm every single bullet, this shit could cost like a little country". Breeding in other world\depths of planetoid\on the moon\other dimension and shit. Dont be lazyass, try to explain it.

likme
likme

@Lunatick
If you believe stories on Veeky Forums, a bear can shrug off bullets long enough to ruin your day, unless you hit it in just the right place. It may die afterward, but that won't unmaul you.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@likme
This is completely correct.

There are multiple places you can hit, but even if you hit them, a large bear will not drop instantly. Unless it's the head.

The myth that bullets can slide off their skulls is just that, though. It has basis in reality, as it used to happen when projectiles were much softer, but now a headshot is a deadshot.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@likme
If you believe in Japanese history, bears are mass murderers.

Because they are.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@hairygrape
If your humans can be killed by skilled individuals with swords then they can easily be killed by randoms with rifles.
Why are there still humans if your setting?

eGremlin
eGremlin

@likme
I once wondered why bears, a mundane animal, have such a high CR in D&D.

Then I had to study bear anatomy for a course and I realized that bears are nature's supersoldiers.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@happy_sad
I would ask why you know this, but I don't really want to know

askme
askme

@CouchChiller
David attenborough hooked me up. What were you expecting?

Methshot
Methshot

@StonedTime
That's a good point. Humans are the most dangerous species to themselves, so if guns are plentiful then there's no good reason to have humans around.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@happy_sad
Say this, thought @CouchChiller
.
@eGremlin
I once wondered why bears, a mundane animal, have such a high CR in D&D.
Your first mistake, user.
Bears are TERRIFYING irl. Their skulls deflect bullets from anything less than 7.62 rounds, and unless you catch them in an immediately debilitating area, they will complete their charge, murder you, then have the decency to bleed to death. Sometimes, they may have the decency to rear on 2 legs to intimidate you, giving you a shot at their heart, but I remain convinced they do it merely to taunt you with your own insignificance.
There is a reason only one person in history is recorded as killing a bear in hand to hand, and he nearly died doing it anyway,

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@King_Martha
the biggest problem with making more powerful guns is containing the blast
even if there aren't guns that can penetrate them taking their bodies and making them into guns fixes that problem
you are phenomenally underestimating the power of guns and especially explosives which can turn insides to mush without having to even hit directly

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Firespawn
There is a reason only one person in history is recorded as killing a bear in hand to hand, and he nearly died doing it anyway,

There was a guy who made a bear run away by shoving his arm down its throat.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Harmless_Venom
That bear died from injuries, iirc,

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

Considering pic related, I wouldn't be surprised if the existence of rockets and machine guns did fuck-all against actual abominations of nature.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Poker_Star
There was a short lived American novel series in the 90s where he came ashore in California and marched across the entire country. In one chapter he gets into a wrestling match with a tornado.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Sharpcharm
I remember this thread.
It was beautifully derailed over pigs and their savagery.
Your average piggy is 2 weeks away from being a menacing boar.

takes2long
takes2long

@happy_sad
Tbh they're mostly a problem to a very select group of people, namely people who raise lifestock in the areas where there are wolves, and even then the economic damage caused by wolves per year is very small. People just tend to get very passionate about the issue because even if it's unlikely that a wolf will kill your sheep or whatever, you probably know at least one person who had sheep killed by a wolf at some point and you'll want to avoid the risk.

Wolves would be extinct in Europe if it wasn't for conservation. They did go extinct in most of their range and even the countries where they still live, they're an endangered species.
American wolves might be harder to wipe out since there's very large areas with wilderness and very low population in northern USA and Canada where they can avoid hunters.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@happy_sad
wolves are still huge problems in both UK

Wolves are extinct in the UK you dipshit.

massdebater
massdebater

@TurtleCat
godzilla
mouth breather
Sorry Gigan. Breath attacks are for a-listers only.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@massdebater
sadanguirious.jpeg

farquit
farquit

@Sharpcharm
These things don't need to pick locks
I remember this thread

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@Harmless_Venom
Eww that sounds painful.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@Techpill
I have but fucking seriously having to defend the existence of something in a world where shit like wolves, lions, tigers, and elephants still exist kind of gets on my fucking nerves after a while.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@LuckyDusty
Pro tip: Dragons and such require more explanation than lions and tigers and bears.

I'm not saying that guns = All monsters dead.
That's dumb.

Just that your last post read like: "Since we haven't exterminated all tigers in the real world, I don't have to explain displacer beasts in Ireland."

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

I am running a modern fantasy game atm and in the world I have the use of guns is actually really limited

not because of lack of tech but because the people of the universe just thought magic was more powerful than firing bullets at high speeds

guns are mainly used by those that don't have any kind of magical talent. Even the police don't use guns since Elves represent most of the police force and they choose to use high tech bows rather than firearms

MPmaster
MPmaster

@Stupidasole
Fake

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@King_Martha

Then please do stop. If you can't explain WHY obviously dangerous creatures haven't been hunted into extinction with available weapons, you're shit at worldbuilding.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@haveahappyday

Yes, because people deliberately worked to save wolves. Unless you live in bumfuck Montana, when's the last time you saw a wolf outside of the zoo?

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@Supergrass
Funny enough I live in Montana

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@King_Martha
The fuck game are you playing?

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@TalkBomber
There was a short lived American novel series in the 90s where he came ashore in California and marched across the entire country. In one chapter he gets into a wrestling match with a tornado.
I would really like the sauce on this. Like, right now.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Firespawn
both
lists 3 places

I mean if you're going to get upset, fine, but at least realize who you're replying to.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@Fried_Sushi
I would argue that your argument is internally inconsistent, as in my experience players are irritated by worldbuilding inconsistencies because it does not allow them to build an accurate portrait of their character and their character's exploits within the world, i.e. the point of consistency is to allow for a solid foundation to storytelling.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@TurtleCat
Why isn't soceity dead? I mean, we have nuclear missiles.

SHitty worldbuilding desu imho

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@likme
This. Everything needs to be explained even if the answer is handwavium.
@TechHater
Space Wizards and handwavium.

Methnerd
Methnerd

@Fuzzy_Logic
Your wolves sound LAAAAAME

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

Well, someone had to go and kill them.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@Sharpcharm
Your elves could use some lasers and shades

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@King_Martha
rockets machineguns and likely other heavy weapons in setting, very likely very commonplace as well.
Monsters still around
This tells me one of two things: one scary the other not so much.
The first? the only reason monsters still live is because we either haven't found them or we LET them live
the second? The monster left alive are the smartest, toughest, and most powerful left. While other breeds fell to mankind's progress, they became more vicious, more savage, and most frighteningly of all, more intelligent. When parents tell their children not to wander at night, THESE were the monsters they spoke of.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@King_Martha
Not daring your player to actually try to make it true.
It's like you don't want to have great campaigns

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@takes2long
It's heavy. Makes you slow. Also harder to fuck.

Methnerd
Methnerd

@happy_sad
No, make guns the monsters.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

im too much of a retarded sperg to explain to my players what supernatural monsters are capable of in general
im too much of a retarded sperg to reason that even with high tech shit that can easily kill supernatural monsters they wouldnt be wiped out
Everyone in this thread. My favorite ones are the retards saying shit like "explain everything in the Star Wars universe." As if it was a good analogy of the problem.

@King_Martha
It's sooooo hard to simply tell the players, "most monsters in my setting are too tough to be taken down by rockets and machine guns," or something to that effect.

Like I said earlier, OP. The problem is you. Do the world a favor and stop being a GM.

Evilember
Evilember

@Lunatick
there was a post on /K/ a while back where some user did some research and posted how dangerous different dinosaurs would be to hunt, sauropods were pretty much invincible due to SHEER MASS and tiny as shit brain, so possibly

SniperGod
SniperGod

@PackManBrainlure
So looking ad D&D there are monsters that are clearly described as being immune to mundane damage so right away you need enchanted weapons to fight these things. that or they have some otherway to ignore damage.

The people like OP is descibing are the sorts that think that guns, by their very nature, bypasses all of this by virtue of being.

If whole armies are not being supplied with magic weapons, what makes them think guns are going to accomplish what regular bows and swords couldn't do?

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@BunnyJinx
The fuck game are you playing?

"Make up a scenario to seek validation from anonymous strangers on Veeky Forums, Revised Second Edition"

viagrandad
viagrandad

GM has a simple flaw that can be easily remedied.
Needs to stop GMing because he's a waste of flesh.

Good shit, my dudes.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@viagrandad
We demand only the best in our community of people who insult each other on the internet and never actually play anything with each other.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@SniperGod
If you can create enchanted weaponry to fight a shadow you can enchant your crew-teamed machine gun as well and mow these undead fucks down like a necrophiliac version of verdun

If dragons exist for a significant time-span next to a technological civilization and pose a real danger to said society, the society will have developed ways to fuck dragons up. Whether these are purely technological, purely magical or both is irrelevant as magic is basically just another avenue of technology based upon different laws (of physics, metaphysics or whatever).

People don't just sit around with their thumbs up their asses when a threat exists that might wipe out you and everyone you know, they develop countermeasures. Imagine if tornadoes were actual entities and could be hunted and killed. Do you honestly think there would still be any tornadoes around?

On the other hand, if monsters are just so over-mighty that you can not realistically defeat them with magic, tech, or anything else, that just leaves the question why mankind has not yet been wiped out by these clearly superior lifeforms.

That leaves you a few options:
The monsters are intelligent and are integrated into a world society

The monsters do not pose a real danger to societies as a whole, but rather cause small scale incidents, boar style

The monsters showed up out of fucking nowhere recently and mankind has yet to adapt

The monsters were intelligently designed (akin to magical beasts of DnD) and require very specific countermeasures, but do not appear in greater numbers so widespread adaption has not happened.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Deadlyinx

Or attacks from shit like dragons are infrequent and are more like natural disasters that people may or may not be prepared for or monsters have adapted to deal with new weapons by not being the "I'm just going to charge right into them" sort of monsters.

But nope, all monsters are stupid and stand around to get shot,stabbed,killed even before guns showed up.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@Techpill
guns were invented after observing dragons.
some deagons have small soft teeth so they shred their prey with gatling fire to make it mincemeat.
some sentient gundrake guards a city as the god of all gun weaponry, they say he could snipe a human from 600 yrds

Bidwell
Bidwell

@cum2soon
Or attacks from shit like dragons are infrequent and are more like natural disasters that people may or may not be prepared for or monsters have adapted to deal with new weapons by not being the "I'm just going to charge right into them" sort of monsters.

If e.g. Dragons are intelligent, a reasonable threat to mankind and also reasonably threatened by humanity in turn, why don't they attempt to wipe us out?

Such competition does not happen, user, that's how natural selection works. If dragons get wind of mankind becoming dangerous, you can bet your ass they'll try their damnedest to BBQ us.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Bidwell
low birthrate
lazy
dont work together
this is just a generic fantasy setting but still

MPmaster
MPmaster

@TurtleCat
lazy
lazy enough to risk the extermination of your species through inaction
not lazy enough to then actually get exterminated

does not compute, user. Also, tagging creatures with character flaws to fill evolutionary niches is unelegant and opens up more questions. Are all dragons lazy? why? is it a biological imperative? You need to elaborate.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@TurtleCat
generally in fiction, even if humans posed a threat to dragonkind, they wouldn't act at the very least until many of them have died. like, at least 10-30% of the dragon population. Yes, not all dragons are the same but one of the main things about them is low population. combined with a fantasy setting and probable hibernation ,most ppl wouldnt even know till a good amount of dragons are dead

Skullbone
Skullbone

@TechHater
The.

Force.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@Evilember
not a metal dragon with six mouths firing in rotation

takes2long
takes2long

@Booteefool
There's a level of assmad I haven't seen in a while.
Is this your first day on Veeky Forums or something?

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@takes2long
not that guy but
what is internal consistency

WebTool
WebTool

Early firearms were incredibly powerful in groups because of the psychological effect of having a wall of explosions come at you and your friends, and this effect is hampered in a universe where even low level magic can keep people from fleeing or patch you up after a metal ball hits your chest
One-on-one combat with firearms is not and never has been a dick-measuring contest where the guy with the bigger gun wins
Guns are not magic death rays that kill whatever is in front of them. People can take modern pistol rounds to the chest and not notice until later.
Armor, not to mention magic armor, is plentiful enough that it is still a good counter to enemies with firearms
There are benefits and drawbacks to having firearms with you
Fire and bludgeoning damage are not different from any other kind of damage, and there are physiological advantages to sticking your enemies full of arrows so it's harder for them to chase after you
Joan of Arc, the iconic medieval female warrior, requested gunpowder to fuel her cannons and handguns in 1430

Guns belong in fantasy games, alongside dragons, ogres, trolls and elves. They don't ruin settings; they just give people one more class of gadget to play with.

On an obnoxious well-in-my-setting note, guns have been optimized for reload speed and accuracy rather than damage, as gunpowder is hard to come by and has better uses than filling the witch hunter's pistol cartridges. It's understood that being able to fire 10 accurate rounds per minute is better than firing 3 high-power inaccurate rounds per minute.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@Nude_Bikergirl
dragon made of guns

happy_sad
happy_sad

@WebTool
someone should invent mana bullets

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@happy_sad

You mean bullets +1?

DeathDog
DeathDog

@WebTool
I do not understand why people never mix magic and guns. Thaumaturgy is a thing in your respective universes, right?

If gunpowder is so rare, to the point that magic is more common, how come some /k/ wizards haven't decided to modify their guns? Maybe by using magical fire in the place of gunpowder, or other alchemical mixtures that - with study - even a lone wizard could make, let alone a whole order of the bastards.

Gunpowder is the chemical explosive that propels the bullet out of the gun; who's to say that an alchemical/magical mixture couldn't do the same, if not better?

w8t4u
w8t4u

@BlogWobbles
@DeathDog
no like this guy said, guns powered by mana instead of gunpowder, or whatever other magical ingredient you want

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

Well, whoever brought in bears into this thread had it right.

In a setting with guns and rockets that can damage monsters, it's likely that the people would have developed technology that can make short work of monsters.

In such a setting, monsters would become something akin to what bears and other wild animals are to us (maybe on a larger scale).

What I mean by that, is that they wouldn't be a threat to 99.9% of the population that never leaves their nice and lived-in areas. But if you're outside the civilized world, in that setting's equivalent of Alaska, and run into a monster, we'll you and your team are in for a bad time, just like bears aren't really a threat to anyone except the people who live near areas with bears, and even then very rarely.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@King_Martha
Tell him to go shoot an elephant with a deer rifle and to get back to you

Inmate
Inmate

@Sharpcharm

I generally agree with this. outside of areas tamed and controlled by people wild animals are not a threat but you can still get fucked by one if you're in it's territory.

Then again, you could also have man eating rats the size of dogs and spiders that have minor magical ability to appear as a helpless woman before it springs on you or fey creatures that use magic to lure you into an alleyway where you sit there stuck in some hallucination while it drains your life away/eats you or simply magic abomination #4521 that breaks out of the lab and stalks the streets.

FastChef
FastChef

@Inmate
you could also have man eating rats the size of dogs and spiders that have minor magical ability to appear as a helpless woman
If these were a common occurrence and everyone knew about it, countermeasures would exist.

fey creatures
That's a threat you probably couldn't reliably eliminate, but there'd still be some countermeasures in place, at least in the form warnings and stories.

If I had to make a setting like that, though, I'd probably have a special police unit specializing in investigating and resolving crimes committed by fey creatures.

magic abomination #4521
Well that'd probably kill a few people before the national guard got called in, or if the creature was more subtle, the aforementioned police unit.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@hairygrape
If the monsters can be killed by Level 20s with bows that doesn't mean a Level 1 with an automatic rifle can.

A more accurate comparison is how many NPC soldiers equipped with crossbows does it take to defeat a monster, not how strong does a PC have to be to take down a monster.

@StonedTime
they seem to think that a gun is a fucking death ray.
Probably one of the most annoying things I hear. Gun nuts give guns such high stats that a town guard would be completely incapable of surviving a single bullet, 0% because they want to make guns so powerful they can hurt high level targets.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@FastChef

A lot of it depends on the area as the powers that be may not care enough to do anything about it unless it threatens their power. That said the idea of a group dedicated to handling these sorts of things is appropriate because you're not going to call an army to deal with an owlbear.

Point ultimately being, for the people who bitch about realism they seem to think that everyone in setting is constantly on alert for all threats.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@CouchChiller
There's a reason why there are no wolves around anymore.
Better example would be the giant cave bear.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@viagrandad

That's retarded user. You hunt elephants with elephant guns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_gun Deer rifles are for deer.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@King_Martha
We have even more ridiculous weapons in real life RIGHT NOW and we still have wolves and bears.

Methnerd
Methnerd

You know, I've heard people say that the whole think where people freak out about their own insignificance in the face of eldritch abominations doesn't apply to modern humans because we don't see ourselves as the center of the universe since we've gone into space.

But I think there are still folks who think humans are unbeatable and would have their world crushed by enemies that could not be put down, such is their unwavering confidence in bullets and nukes.

JunkTop
JunkTop

@likme
Did you know that the original name for bears is not known, since bear is the 'code name' for them, as back then, people belived names held power and so could summon a bear to your lands?

Bears are scary, user.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Sir_Gallonhead
That's my point precisely, simply because you have a guns and rocket launchers does not mean you have the right type of guns or rocket launchers

5mileys
5mileys

@Methnerd
The amount of human and gun wank in this thread is would normally be astonishing
Until you realize this is Veeky Forums and is filled with more hardcore turbo autists than any other board on Veeky Forums

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@5mileys
What are you on about? There's very little gun wank in this thread. It's mostly just regular discussion about guns.

idontknow
idontknow

Threadly reminder that REGULAR FUCKING HIPPOS ARE BULLETPROOF
I'M SURE YOUR PEASHOOTER WILL SLIGHTLY BOTHER THE 20 STORIES TALL DRAGON

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@iluvmen
Generally, this is one of the big contradictions with dragons and other such "more powerful and intelligent than humans" type creatures. Fiction is obviously written by humans, and humans are pretty much mandatory in most settings and stories, enough that the logical course of action is not allowed.

If something like a dragon were to live before humans, then humans would never have been allowed to develop at all, the dragons would be like the way we are now, and everything else would be like how animals are to us.

WebTool
WebTool

@King_Martha

All that shit exists in the D&D multiverse and it hits like a motherfucker, but beyond killing maybe an unattentive dragon or two every intelligent threat has some way to either counter them, or use them themselves to multiply their force.

Tell me that a red dragon wielding a 30mm chaingun+10 firing freezing ammunition isn't terrifying.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@haveahappyday
Nah, humans can live on, like anything else that humans hunt, they just have to make themselves not be such a nuisance that the dragons would need to be determined to wipe them out at the start, before they can build up.

Maybe all early human civilization came from the icy regions of the world where very few dragons can go. Maybe heavily forested regions where dragons have a more difficult time hunting, not that they can't hunt there but the dragons would rather hunt on open plains. Of course, humans would need to switch to stone so they don't get any permanent building burnt down. The humans could also be underground with passages too narrow for dragons and too deep for fire breath and well ventilated enough that the fire wouldn't suffocate people.

I'm sure you could think of a satisfactory answer if you tried.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@TechHater
I probably can but I have a habit of just cutting stupid shit out of the setting to use when I run games.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Lunatick
Yes.

Elephant guns were created explicitly to hunt Elephants because nothing else really hurts them.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@StrangeWizard
*Star Wars fans autistically scream in the background*

Firespawn
Firespawn

@w8t4u
Or at least not in a way that you don't go through boxes and boxes of ammunition.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@Lord_Tryzalot
Gun nuts give guns such high stats
user, the people who *like* guns aren't the ones who think they're death rays.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@kizzmybutt
Visit the /swg/ some time. Their response to stupid shit is "Get rid of it, it's stupid."

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@Firespawn
In which time the elephant has come over to kick your ass.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@w8t4u
God a dragon gun would be awesome. I'd be expensive as hell and probably longer than your car but I'd be awesome!

hairygrape
hairygrape

@JunkTop
We know enough to reconstruct the original word as *h2ŕ̥tḱos in PIE, from whence Ancient Greek árktos and Latin ursus, from whence the word for bear in pretty much every Romance language.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@New_Cliche
I can respect that.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Spamalot
That's just a cannon.

Playboyize
Playboyize

@Spazyfool
as it used to happen when projectiles were much softer
New lead is harder than old lead?

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Playboyize
New lead has an odd tendency to go faster, be long and pointy in the front instead of round, and—get this—jacketed in copper.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@Soft_member
Used to be anons here would just run with the idea and we'd have a highly detailed wiki entry on 1d4chan. But now it's just the rage of other, lesser boards tainting what was the last good board.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Deadlyinx
People don't just sit around with their thumbs up their asses when a threat exists that might wipe out you and everyone you know, they develop countermeasures.
Neither do all monsters.
Why is there this assumption that all monsters are witless animals?
Dragons usually are not depicted as such.
A great many monsters, even the non-civilized kind, are very intelligent.

But no.
Monsters don't respond to humanity developing dangerous weapons and waging war.
They don't band together into an unholy magical army hellbent on removing the genocidal threat of humanity.
ALL MONSTERS ARE BOARS!

Gotcha.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@iluvmen
@MPmaster
@TurtleCat
Humans kill some dragons.
Dragons don't care, they didn't even like those assholes.
Humans kill even *more* dragons
Hold up, this is bullshit. Let's drop our differences for a minute and settle this
You know what? Call the centaurs too, they're small and hunt well.
Monsters wipe out most of humanity
Okay that's enough, they're done
What? They could grow back!
Nah. Besides, that one cluster is holed up in Detroit. Fuck. That.
I'm going home.
Cue a couple millennia of monstrous rule
Damnit! The infestation is back!
We gotta exterminate again you guys.

Thorough genocide takes methodical, motivated dedication.
Once you beat back a species to the point where you can live comfortably, you generally stop.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Garbage Can Lid
Godzilla 2000 https://www.amazon.com/dp/0679887512/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_oJeEyb4HQJ8K5

Is pretty good, nice military detail. Dated though. The final fight is January 1st 2000... World Trade Center...

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@haveahappyday
the dragons would be like the way we are now
You may not mean this the way I first thought you did.
But assuming this means what I think it means, this line of thinking always bugs me.
The idea that any intelligent, dominant life form would be like us bugs me.

A while back I had a thread about the wyverns in my setting that were explicitly as smart as human beings.
And there were a few anons that could not understand why they did not speak or develop "civilization". Could. Not. Understand.

I, and others, tried to explain that human level intelligence does not mean human interests and development.
These anons could not understand that some intelligent creatures would not be like us or try to relate to us.
My Wyverns are fully capable of understanding human speech and the rudimentary basics of human technology, they just don’t care.
They care about flying, eating, and mating.
Their culture is composing week-long aerial sonatas, weaving a rich tapestry of slaughter, exploring the various nuances of flavor found in properly charred corpses, and trying to mate.

Given thousands of millennia, they would still not be like us. They have no reason to be and actively want to be something else.
But they can damn well figure out how to break open a window and open the door from the outside, not to mention knowing advanced tactics including what your guns look like and how to target them to shut down your defenses.
They are a terrifying force of nature, largely avoided.
They don’t hunt us, unless provoked, because they have better things to eat.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@King_Martha
But GM, rockets and machine guns exist in your setting all the monsters in the world should be dead!

Playboyize
Playboyize

@Fuzzy_Logic
I have something even better.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@LuckyDusty
Because *we* considered to save *them*. If they would be agressive killing machines, we'd be obliged to wipe them out. And that's why you should make natural agressive killing machine unreachable for humanity to some point with means I described in my post earlier.
@likme
Anyway, GM, explaining shit is fun, because you sew close plotholes and factholes. That's the way I used when was creating my best 3 settings. I literally catched a bunch of my friends, fucked their brain with all the information, and they was criticising it until I closed all logical gaps and explained all the strange shit, flooding settings with fitting ideas in process. That's how good shit is born. Don't be angry about players, they just trying to understand your setting better.

Methnerd
Methnerd

@kizzmybutt
Anyway, GM, explaining shit is fun
This

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

There's been (stupid) magical guns in the Forgotten Realms since the boxed sets released in the 90's.

The kind of steam punk world of Bas-Lag is one of the most popular works of fantasy in the last 20 years (that isn't licensed fiction from a movie or game).

I'm convinced most of Veeky Forums has no interest in works of the imagination outside of Star Trek, the Lord of the Rings movies, and game manuals.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Garbage Can Lid

Then you're an idiot, because guns and rocket launchers are made to work against whatever nees shooting and exploding. They don't exist in a vacuum. If the base tech exists, anti-monster weapons are a given. Whether it's a 16 inch/50 caliber naval gun, or a 5.56mm machinegun, there's an entire gamut of firepower available.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Boy_vs_Girl
Dude most of our weapons have been designed to kill each other and nothing else, because a war is far more pressing then actually shooting wolves.

Inmate
Inmate

@cum2soon
Dated though. The final fight is January 1st 2000... World Trade Center...

How does that make it dated

The fight would have to occur after Sept. 11, 2001 for it to be dated.

TechHater
TechHater

@Inmate
Something doesn't have to be anachronistic to be dated; just of a mode or milieu that has since changed or been superceded so as no longer to be relevant.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Inmate
yeah man, its not a particularly near-future setting if the timeline is 16 years in the past.

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