Warhammer 40,000 General

Tau technically don't have relics.

>Meant to rigidly follow
>it's bad
WRONG.

The Codex Astartes is 40k's version of The Art of War if said book was top secret and only 1,000,000 of the greatest soldiers of mankind had access to it. Robert Gullman never meant it to be followed to the letter, though some chapters such as the Hammers of Dorn do this anyways, and have amazing tactical sense and victories regardless.

>not really much of a general
He's literally Sun Tzu in space. An unparalleled tactician bar none, what I take issue with is him beating the shit out of everyone as if he's Leman Russ in the new fluff.

>modelled after Ancient Rome
More like "GW can't write for shit so it was basically Rome"

>wrote the book of tactics space marines are meant to rigidly follow to the letter
>infamously kinda shit
>the chapters who toss it out the window are generally the more fun ones
Now your friend presents himself as a 1d4tard. None of that is true. The Codex:
>is more like a set of guidelines than actually rules
>is responsible for Marines having the edge over Chaos Marines despite the experience gap
>is ignored by snoozefest chapters like Imperial Fists
Also Guilliman fucking spelled out that nobody was supposed to treat its word as law because he valued tactical flexibility and a willingness to adapt in war, just like a certain someone.

>build his own mini-empire
He was just successful.
>tolerated because it was very efficient
It was tolerated because nobody considered him a traitor and he was doing it in the Emperor's name.

>he took their men
He didn't. Their men were slaughtered. He's thinking of traitors absorbed during The Scouring.
>personal army
It's his fucking legion.

>tried to sit it out
No, he got Calth'd, then thought Emps was dead because of warp storms. So he created the Imperium Secundus to replace the Imperium he thought had already fallen apart.
>strongarm him into helping
He literally made Sanguinius the next Emperor and only called a halt because Sangy got bored and fucked off to see if dad was ok.

>political and military reforms that are honestly largely to blame for how much the imperium declined
Untrue.

>steal the Emperor's sword
It was a gift from Cawl and friends.

Tell him to stop watching TTS, get the fuck off of 1d4chan, and read the fucking lore.
Also
>Skype
>2017

I like how you wrote all that up without looking up the profile of space marine shotguns.

covered the Codex Astartes issue, although to be fair, we don't know if he changed his mind after the Heresy. Maybe the shame and grief pushed him to change his mind.

Also, the UMs absorbing the lost Legions is only a rumour. ADB himself has said not to put much stock in it.

SM Scout shotguns are Str 4 because reasons. Guard should have S4 shotties too. Not like the ability to assault is much better for them.

No, because the shotguns are only used by Scouts, and they do their job fine.

Also that's not even the Scout Shotgun profile.

Nicely put. Would like to add that TTS is good fun (I find it hilarious), but don't use it as a source of lore, just as you shouldn't use satire as a source of news.

>Codex is ignored by IF
Wat

The IF and their successors (bar the one chapter that are canonically seen as weirdos by every other chapter) are strict adherents to the codex.

That or shotguns should have shred like the Krieger shotguns. Would make up for the lack of AP

Oh boy. That's a whole lot of bullshit

Guilliman is one of the best generals out of the primarchs. He is fa and away the best statesman, but that by no means diminishes his capacity as a warrior. Only horus and the lion are arguably better generals.

He was never a senator, his father konor was. Much like what happened after the emperors death, bobby G arrived late to see konor betrayed and dying, killed by his most trusted friend, and tried to hunt down all the traitors, before taking control of his fathers empire.

The codex is far and away superior to the legion format, and the space wolves and BT are both morons. Plus it's not supposed to be rigidly followed, but treated like guidelines. That's girlyman's own view. It is most certainly not kinda shit.

The empire thing is mostly true

The two legions being folded in has never been 100% confirmed AFAIK,mand the ultras would be massive without it.

He was not trying to sit out, he couldn't get past the ruinstorm and thought the imperium was dead, and decided the emperor's ideals should be carried on.

His changed to the imperium are the only reason it's been around for 10,000 years. Without it the imperium would have crumbled the moment the last primarch was gone. Alongside the codex, this is arguably his greatest sucess, and a testimony to his prowess as a stateman

He's been rumored to be healing, but until GS part 3 comes out, we won't know what actually happened.

Your friend is an uniformed Guilliman hater.
>mfw

Where's the fucking Duncan video?

>Tell him to stop watching TTS, get the fuck off of 1d4chan, and read the fucking lore.
I wish more people did this. That way, people would stop repeating fanwank like the Lords of Decay attacking Pluto, or that unnamed Terminator armour in the Meduson anthology being the Saturnine pattern, as if it were canon.

Face it, Gulliman is the guy who would have eventually led the heresy as a secular coup were chaos nor around to fuck things up first.

I doubt it, he just got a model so they probably won't kill him off yet.

>killing a daemon
Lrn2lore fgt

Worst case scenario is Magnus is banished back into the warp and then pops out a few minutes later complaining about how boring the last thousand years were.

Last wall protocol

>Plus it's not supposed to be rigidly followed
Well, apparently a fair chunk of the SMs managed to forget that after his little run-in with Fulgrim's sword.

How do we fix Black Legion, Iron Warriors, Thousand Sons, Word Bearers, and Night Lords?

Posting a casual Skitarii/Knight list for 1500. Worried about the lack of models, but god damn the idea of 9 Plasma cannon shots a turn with PE gets me rock hard. Should I drop them for an extra squad of Vanguard.

That's not guilliman's fault.
It's also not that true, IIRC even papa smurf said you shouldn't follow it to the letter.

>Night Lords
Remove those stupid wings from their helmet's.

Wrong, he was one of the best generals. Very few were better than him, like Horus and Lion, yet he learned from them and admitted their superiority in order to better himself.

Wrong on Codex Astartes.

Wrong on absorbing lost legions.

Wrong on sitting out during the Heresy.

So fucking wrong on post-Heresy. Guilliman's changes are the ONLY reason the Imperium lasted 10,000 years without the Primarchs and Emperor.

Your friend is a complete dipshit.

Have you considered obtaining gainful employment, fellow leaf?

Duncan's been down here in Australia, so no new videos until he's back in England.

I thought they'd have had some recorded though, seeing as how they apparently film some a while in advance.

>Gulliman said the codex was just guidelines

Yes, and that's mean to be ironic. Everyone treats it as dogmatic perfection to be followed at all times when the author himself knew it was just his collected advice.

>Yes, and that's mean to be ironic.

Your days as a novice are behind you, Anonymous.

>even papa smurf said you shouldn't follow it to the letter.
Which contradicts his treatment of Ventris and Lysane in the UM novels:
>Ventris: My tactical flexibility won us the day!
>Calgar: Violate muh Codex, will you? REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

I want Celestine and Girlyman to fuuuuck oh man do I want them to fuck in the middle of a battle

Most non-GW stores that sell GW products should be selling them at 20% off. The vast majority of online stores do this.

>Wrong, he was one of the best generals. Very few were better than him, like Horus and Lion, yet he learned from them and admitted their superiority in order to better himself.

Since fucking when? His entire schtick is that he just wanted to be a politician.

>Yes, and that's mean to be ironic
"Ironic" in GW's usual way of "everything was better then, now it's shit! Look how grimdark everything is!"

Or, at least until the nobledark started to creep in with the recent focus on superhero-tier antics.

So given that Guilliman was healed by being french-kissed by an eldar goth prostitute, does this mean that the elves and the imperium are officially allied now?

Everyone thinks just because Guilliman is the best diplomat, logistician, empire builder, and one of the best generals, he somehow can't be a fighter. He's a warrior noble too. The only Primarchs that are going to be manhandling him are combat specialists like Angron, Khan, Fulgrim, Sanguinius, etc, or Horus who is basically good at everything including combat just like Guilliman.

Guilliman isn't the Greek version of Lorgar.

I might be wrong about it.
I remember reading it somewhere.
Either way, even if he does follow it exactly to the letter he's got more honors than anybody except guilliman in the ultras history, so he's doing something right

No

>Since fucking when?

He wrote the fucking Codex Astartes you fucking idiot. In which he takes strategies from not just Lion but Corax too after losing to him three times at space chess.

And also from one of his lines where he admits certain Primarchs are better than him or when he names the best four.

>defining guilliman with cheap Bolter bitch whores
GUILLIMAN IS NOT FOR LEWD

Was this part of the WD leaks? I haven't looked over them properly yet.

Yeah, Guilliman x Ultramarine gay sex only. Gotta keep that geneseed bloodline pure, free from the taint of woman.

Nah, I want to see Celestine trying to fit his "Spear of Macragge" in her tight little bootyhole.

Is it strange that I like girlyman but hate ultramarines?

Where did I say he couldn't be a fighter? He's still a Primarch. All I said is that I have a problem with him smashing the forces of the Black Legion literally single-handedly like the prince of all Mary Sues the Ward haters label him as. It's shit writing.

>Guilliman isn't the Greek version of Lorgar
He wasn't Greek, he was Roman. Learn the difference you fucking Philistine.

>His entire schtick is that he just wanted to be a politician.
Except that's wrong. He wrote the codex for Christ sake, Guilliman was interested in basically everything.

He was not just a poltitican, he was many many things, including a master general

>All I said is that I have a problem with him smashing the forces of the Black Legion literally single-handedly like the prince of all Mary Sues the Ward haters label him as
Not him, but what else would you expect from a primarch? Him getting jobbed by a bunch of litterally whos?

>He wrote the fucking Codex Astartes you fucking idiot. In which he takes strategies from not just Lion but Corax too after losing to him three times at space chess.

>And also from one of his lines where he admits certain Primarchs are better than him or when he names the best four.

Why are you posting evidence he was one of the weaker millitary Primarchs whilst claiming it proves the opposite?

If anything, that just underlines his good politician schtick: He knows when to shut up and listen to expertise.

Not at all. Sanguinius is indisputably the best Primarch but the Blood Angels in 30k are bland and in 40k they're my least favorite snowflake Marine codex.

>fanwank like the Lords of Decay attacking Pluto

Where'd this notion come from, then? I've seen it repeated a large number of times but I don't usually pay much attention to Chaos fluff so I assumed it was legitimate. A quick google shows it being cited to either the 4th or 6th ed Chaos codex or else Siege of Vraks (fucking fanwankwiki is shit at sourcing)

>gay sex
NOT FOR LEWD.

Go masturbate over fulgrim you slaneeshi degenerate.

I've just started an Thousand Sons army, and have a Chaos Space Marine squad to paint up. wondering if anyone has any pics of Thousand Sons, Chaos Space Marines, not Rubric marines, or thousand sons with egypt heads.
I'm talking, normal Chaos Space Marines, in Thousand Sons colours. please please.

Is it okay to mix weapons on Crisis suits?

Do you think Rowboat likes getting pegged?

Even Lorgar could wade through a legion.

>Where did I say he couldn't be a fighter? He's still a Primarch. All I said is that I have a problem with him smashing the forces of the Black Legion literally single-handedly like the prince of all Mary Sues the Ward haters label him as. It's shit writing.
Expect more of this shit in the future. 40K seems to be turning into a superhero drama more and more with each new book these days. As old as it might make me sound, I miss the days where GW didn't feel the need to spam special characters doing Sueish bullshit, and focused more on the actual armies doing battle around them.

No, but I like the Ultramarines and don't particularly care for Girlyman and so we must fight to the death you filthy fucking pleb

You're just in denial because of Ultra Ward memes.

Depends on their role and the weapons. Generally it's better not to though, or at least include a Target Lock if you're planning on it.

I've seen it on 40K Wiki and 1d4chan, but never found anything citing the actual book (if any) it came from. Lexicanum doesn't mention it at all either, which is quite damning.

As someone who owns all of those books, none of them mention it at all, so I'm considering it fanwank until someone comes up with a legitimate source.

>Why are you posting evidence he was one of the weaker millitary Primarchs whilst claiming it proves the opposite?

Are you fucking retarded? It was literally just stated that Lion is one of the only two generals better than him.

Corax never beat Guilliman at chess again after winning three times. What does that fucking tell you.

Personally I'd expect a Primarch to be unstoppable because I have eyes and have been paying any attention to black library whatsoever.

Doesn't mean it's not awful writing though. It makes zero sense for the Primarchs to be literal demigods going by the original fluff for them. It's like everyone on the writing staff forgot what a legend is simultaneously when it came time to crack open the heresy novels.

The worse part is that this shit is inexplicably popular.

>tfw EoT was a full blown military campaign
>tfw Gathering Storm 1 and 2 is just a story about how Abbadon is the evilest and Cawl and Celestine have to 1v1 him while Yvraine singlehandedly undoes 10000 years of regression and unites the entire Eldar species while also forming Ynnead so they can join up with the Imperium's badassiest of heroes to go revive the king of badass heroes to solo the enemy army

Go back to be lionel, nobody wants to hear your fantasies, and you need to be well rested for your return

>the only generals better than Guilliman are Lion and Horus, who Guilliman absorbed and learned from to master their techniques
>LOL THAT'S JUST PROOF THAT GUILLIMAN SUCKS

holy shit youre dumb

>Corax never beat Guilliman at chess again after winning three times. What does that fucking tell you.

That Gulliman is good at board games.

I was thinking about having one with a pair of fusion blasters with the target lock. I've only played orks so I'm kind of overwhelmed with all the weapons and systems with the hard point stuff.

>That Gulliman is good at board games.
So he's /ourguy/

>going by the original fluff for them

Fuck off, RT isn't even canon. The Emperor was literally just a regular fucking dude in the original fluff too don't see you bitching about that.

Also, stimulant injectors look expensive, but it looks like crisis suits attract a bit of fire, are they worth?

>losing to Corax three times

Corax sucks at board games. The dude was raised as a slave and got butthurt over his Terran legionnaires being alphas

Guilliman confirmed for netlisting scrub

So he's /ourguy/

Not even that, even in fiction outside of their codex they swiftly defeat insurmountable enemies
One of the easiest ways to introduce a new ultrasmurf OC has been to have them and their merry band of brothers defeat the same enemIes with the same tactics, even when said enemy is known for its tactical prowess (particularly the swarmlord, who can't be beaten by the same attack twice basically but falls for it every time)
It's all just so unimaginative to me

what's the best ultramarines successor chapter

I want to use guilliman but ultramarines are what everyone uses

>"I'm telling you, Dorn, the Riptide is basically the Tau's TEQ!"

Any alternative for the quick reference sheets?
That dropbox link is 404.

As late as 3rd edition, prolly even later, the heresy era was depicted as a time of myth lost to history, retold only as legends and religious dogma.

And then I come back after 14 years and everything is about unstoppable 10 foot melodrama queens it physically hurts to look at because they're so perfect, killing armies with their bare fists and wrestling Titans.

If anything the myths about the Primarchs were tame compared to the events of the heresy novels.

They're all pretty same-ish, go for either the weird ones who are for some reason an Ultra successor but seem more like they should be from another Primarch, or the ones with a cool color scheme like Mortifactors.

In the RPG I think the Novamarines' geneseed flaw is that they hate xenos so fucking much eventually they become obsessed with killing xenos, even peaceful ones or even if it would jeopardize the mission by attacking the xenos, so they go full xenos murderhobo.

BL ruins everything. Should just stick to FW's take on 30k, although you'll still have 10 foot tall guys wrestling titans. But at least it'll be more like Dynasty Warriors in space, and less like whatever daddy issue garbage BL is pushing out.

>horus heresy novels

Yup I was right, BL.

As long as it's a single suit with a target lock in a larger squad, it can work fine. Something to consider might be running it as a single suit separate from the larger squad, but that might not be as possible for some detatchments.

The bigger things to consider is what they're going to be shooting at, and from what distance. Hordes, elite infantry, or vehicles, it's generally good to go with a goal in mind. Missiles and flamers are the only ones that can really be safely mixed in without much worry. Flamers as a cheap anti-assault incentive in addition to real guns, and missiles as a longer range option that's good against most targets.

Stims tend to get pricey if you stick them on everything. It would be best on squads you expect to be in more protracted firefights with things. Less good on a missile team that's going to be at long ranges, but better for things in the thick of it. Also good for when running a suit solo.

Exactly, thank you.
I'm not against special characters doing things as a general rule, I just don't like the superhero antics that they've been writing lately, since it reads more and more like a cartoon targeted at eleven-year-olds.

>tfw it won't be hard to make that XIII into VIII

Do you think Guilliman will ban the imperial cult?
It would be a great way of squatting the sisters.

>implying the Sisters wouldn't oppose with violence

I was gonna start my space marines force when Guilliman is released and have different units be different chapters, like have a tactical squad that are Novamarines, another that are Genesis Chapter, an Assault squad that are from the Hawk Lords, a Devastator squad from the Fire Angels, so on and so forth.

Welcome to modern GW and their AoS/WHFB herohammer bullshit. If you want military campaigns go to FW. Imperial Armour and 30k are more technical than even EoT ever was. They even have fucking bombardment target maps with land navigation scales.

every thousand son which isn't a sorceror is a rubric marine

Anyone have experience with shipping proxies? All the good retailers are Europe only

No. Injectors on three crisis suits are worth another crisis suit with a twin linked gun and precision shots. And they still won't work if you get S8'd.
I recommend not mixing weapons. Just make another squad.

I've been looking at fire angels, doom eagles, and doom legion

>implying Guilliman wasn't a Gladius and grav spammer

That actually leads to a good question though: besides their own chapter or legion, what 40k army would the primarchs play?

Russ would play World Eaters. I guarantee it.