Warhammer 40k General - /40kg/

Ork wargear lists are just insulting really. There's two options on their melee weapon list. Fucking TWO! They don't even get power weapons lazily added in there.

Orks really should have the most access and variety to their wargear list. I play Chaos, and even we have it better in that regard.

Hey does anyone here play Daemons or CSM or preferably allying the two other than Khorne Daemonkin?
I'm trying to figure out how to get the two to work together and which one should be the primary detachment.

Oh its on a stick down there. Shit my joke is ruined.

>Ork Warboss nabs Goredrinker
>???
>Rape

>Number of Ork ranged weapon options: 9
>Number of Ork melee weapon options: 2
>Initiative 2

It's been staring us in the face for years, Orks really aren't a melee race at all!

Make it one piece of wargear.

>Boi do I luv moi new arr-tee-fisser armer

Every once and awhile after playing a few games I go back hoping to see some small rules interaction or piece of wargear that i missed to improve my orks and every time disappointment.

There is just nothing.

I'm picturing an Ork managing to fight his way through several characters, managing to get a power weapon of every kind, double pistols like cypher, and a golf bag full of relics.

I would say to keep it as weapons, if only to keep things simple and sensible.

Oh we can do better than that...

That's more or less why I kept it to weapons. Though the thought of a Warboss stomping around in a Riptide is zoggin' bootiful

>Model up several grots carrying piles of random weapons that follow the Boss around as he "collekts" a few more "soovaneers".

THANKS DOC

Nothing will be able to make that sculpt look good. Guilliman is a dumpster fire.

All it would give him is a 2+ and multi-tracker plus blacksun filter.

Space Hulk Ascension is €5.59 at HumbleBundle, should I get it?

Would being in a riptide make him an MC?

Oddly enough, looting a Riptide doesn't actually do much for him by RAW. He'll get a 2+ save and a multi-tracker to fire 2 guns each turn (which is nice with all the looting he's doing), but that's all it does.

More terrifying would be a Warboss that manages to steal multiple bikes or toughness boosting objects.

Yeah, keeping it to weapons is for the best. Also, I feel like a Warboss should really be competent enough to fire two weapons assuming he has them. I mean, barely aiming anyway, but still.

No one in the game has good melee options though
I mean who the fuck wants to pay 15 points for a S3 AP3 power sword? Or 25-30 points for x2 strength AP2 Power Fist/Eviscerator? Melee weapon points costs should be proportional to the statline of the units that can take them. And make pistols cheaper for fuck's sake.

Mk.IX armour when?

No. That's a property of the unit entry itself. Technically wouldn't give him a jetpack either, or even the 5+ invuln.

This is all the wargear item "riptide battlesuit" does.

Apparently the specific tau wearing them are just naturally T6 I guess.

Nice Ferrus Manus conversion, user

I think pistols would be fine if they were 5 points cheaper across the board.

Also, it's less a matter of having good melee options, and having any. A Warboss might actually get some decent mileage out of something between an AP 5 big choppa and a power klaw.

Holy fuck, they really are monstrous creatures under that armour.

>Guard getting access to -4 point Bolt Pistols
I can dig it

In the previous thread someone was saying defensive bash didn't work in eternal crusade, this is absolute bullshit. Its absurdly broken yes, but not because it needs to be "fixed" or made stronger, but because its fucking ridiculous a space marine's combat knife can parry a power maul. Any ranged class can beat a melee class in melee by using DBash with no effort or risk.

>sisters pay 15 points for a plasma pistol
>dropping to 10 makes them the same cost as a combi-plasma
Oh look. It's fucking worthless still!

It's even worse on chaos raptors
>PP is still 15pts
>melta gun is 10
>PP is S7 Ap2 and kills the user
>melta is S8 Ap1 and doesn't kill the user

The advantage to taking the pistol is still having an extra attack. Obviously, if you want to favor shooting, then you go for the shooting option. Or, if you want the shooting option, buy two plasma pistols. Congrats, now you have extra attacks and an assault plasmagun for 20 points.

Raptors cant take two plasma pistols and i dont think having a second pistol gives you a second attack.

First, while it wouldn't help Raptors, that's where the tradeoff is. Do you want 3 attacks on the charge and a single plasma shot, or 2 and a single melta shot?

Second, yes it does, because pistols function as close combat weapons. If you have 2, it's the same as if you had 2 chainswords or what have you

Almost done with my Ixion Hale and Deathwatch Librarian and all I can think is that I'm doomed to paint gold and black forever now.

>advantage of taking the pistol is still having an extra attack

Raptors don't give up their pistol or CCW for a melta gun and can't take 2 PPs anyway. The plasma pistol MIGHT be worth taking for 5 points, but probably still better to take the melta.

That +1a doesnt mean shit, unless you have power weapon to go with it, however then you really dont want to fire incase Gets Hot ! kicks in as the 1-wound character is now pretty expensive.

Huh, so they can't. Still, hardly a reason to complain about 10 point plasma pistols for everyone else. Honestly, that's more of a reason to wonder why they bothered putting plasma pistols as an option for them in the first place.

Alright. Then what would you cost a plasma pistol at?

>
>That +1a doesnt mean shit, unless you have power weapon to go with it,
Not true. More attacks means more potential failed saves. I'd argue that more attacks are crucial without a power weapon.

No i meant a second ranged attack.

>tfw Orks can get S8 Plasma Pistols and guns for 10 points
>meks/big meks only

Why does black library want to turn WH40K into an sjw shitfest?

Gunslinger rule. You have two pistols, you can shoot each.

Can you give an example of what you are complaining about?

Maybe 10pts for MEQ, but anyone who has the option of a PP over say a combi-melta, the combi-melta wins every time. I can tell you for a fact that as a sisters player, I would still never buy a plasma pistol for 10 points.

Even on a space Marine sgt, I can take a PP or I can take a power weapon. I'm definitely not paying for both, and the power weapon is ultimately better in most situations.

I just bought the starter edition, and a chaos desolater squad I plan on making a nurgle based army should i buy the starter set for nurgle or grab something else?

>Axe of Ruin

Well it depends if you want to run daemons as allies. What do you mean starter edition? Do you mean dark vengeance or do you mean start collecting chaos space marines?
If you got start collecting CSM you should get a rhino so your marines have somewhere to chill.

Alright. Give a number then. How low would a plasma pistol have to be for you to want to take one? 8 points? 5 points?

I think an armored assault would be a much better buy than just a rhino. It's. It much more expensive and comes with dudes and more importantly weapons.

datz right proppa orky

Not him, but I feel 7 points would be appropriate.

Pick Coteaz as a HQ 100 points BOOM every non vehicle is Obj. secured. Its fucking Coteaz anyway, an autotake. 2nd HQ pick anyone you want for whatever job. Just no named characters.

Biggest problem is shored up.

I like Castellans for the fluffy as fuck army I can build. Coteaz, Raven Guard Libby, combo Scion and Scouts as troops. Wyverns out the ass and anything else I want.

Hey guys,
I have a 1000pt game against space marines on thursday. No clue what they will be bringing. Here is my 1000pt ynnari list. How does it look? What do I need to worry about from space marines?

I would pay 5 points for a plasma pistol, and I think that's a fair price. It's a cheap upgrade for an assaulty squad and likewise just a cheap upgrade for wanting to keep it cheap. Dedicated squads will still want a combi-weapon, but for 5 more points, they can take something they can use after the combi is dumped, even though its only one shot.

>7 points

Cool. So now every character alive can buy a Plasmagun, exchanging the one shot at up to 24 inches for assault, while also getting an extra attack in the process. Oh, and it's also 1 point cheaper than a standard plasmagun despite being almost entirely better. Who'll ever both with a combi-plasma when an unlimited assault version is only 4 extra points and comes with an extra attack?

Jesus, that guy is comically large.

>Ynnari
I hope you get obliterated by triptide

Why are people moaning about the rumored changes in 8th edition?

Making armor saves matter again.
Making dreadnoughts worth taking.
Melee isn't fucking useless.
Movement stats.
Morale actually does something again. Also, no more endless ATSKNF bitching.

Now, make my inferno pistols worth taking and let my blood angel tactical squads have melee weapons and I will be a happy boy.

>Dedicated squads will still want a combi-weapon

See Now you can buy 2 plasmapistols for the price of a meltagun, completely nullifying any point of ever taking a combi-plasma ever again, while also giving every character ever a plasmagun for 5 points off. Completely ignoring the assault benefits in that as well.

Only if they're allowed to take two pistols and are willing to forfeit the option of a power weapon.

sorry for not specifying
its the starter set with dark vengence

I am playing against space marines not tau. My Ynnari list is comprised completely of harlequins and dark eldar with the yncarne. Harlequins and dark eldar are known for being rather weak. I don't understand why you have to be so autistic.

> →
>Pick Coteaz as a HQ 100 points BOOM every non vehicle is Obj. secured.
I hate named snowflakes
>Its fucking Coteaz anyway, an autotake.
For this exact fucking reason.

>I like Castellans for the fluffy as fuck army I can build. Coteaz, Raven Guard Libby, combo Scion and Scouts as troops. Wyverns out the ass and anything else I want.

That's great and all, but as a sisters player, Castellans offers me nothing of value while forcing me to take 4 troops and still needing to ally in Sisters of Silence anyway.

>I hope you get obliterated by triptide
Did you read his post, yet alone the actual army list, or just see the filename and have an autistic brainstorm.

>trying to defend Ynnari
>ever
I hope you get fucked by an invisible librarian conclave supported by sky hammer then.

Most models with access to the ranged weapons list can take two, and forfeiting the option of a power sword isn't really a bad deal.

For any HQ that wants to tag along with a shooting unit, having a cheaper plasmagun is a great option.

For any sergeant that was going to take a combi-weapon to match up with his squad, now he has a longer term option. They weren't gonna take a power weapon anyway.

So that just leaves close combat HQs, who will still very much love the discount.

>once and awhile
It's a doggy dog world out there.

>Making dreadnoughts worth taking.

In what way? Was something specific to Dreads announced?

Well it obviously depends on context, my suggestion was assuming a 1 wound model that would only be able to buy 1 plasma pistol.

Well the "Desolator Squad" you bought had a rhino with it didn't it? Soon there will be new death guard models, so that means any plague marines you buy now will look like shit compared to the ones coming out soon. Two units you NEED to play chaos space marines are "spawn" and the "Daemon Prince" this is because sometimes your dudes will transform into these models by the gifts of the chaos gods. The Daemon Prince is also pretty badass and imo spawn are pretty badass generally, but specifically nurgle spawn are toughness six, this means they basically need to be shot with anti tank stuff to die.

Hence why my original suggestion was a 5 point drop across the board. Obviously for models like raptors that can just buy a plasmagun without giving up any attacks, it's really silly to buy a plasma pistol without it being dirt cheap.

Thanks user

>Most models with access to the ranged weapons list can take two
Then limit it to one since we're making a sweeping change anyway. Give pistols their own category
>may exchange bolt pistol for x pistol
Or
>may purchase up to one x pistol
Then still let them exchange other weapons for combi/power ect.

>So that just leaves close combat HQs, who will still very much love the discount.
I don't see this as a problem.

I think Ynnead brought Guilliman back only because he is only thing of right size and power that can satiate her.

If Ynnari are some horrible over powered army that you should be ashamed of playing, then why are you able to pick out other armies that will rape the all powerful ynnari? Do you have fun playing this game or you just that guy who complains about how every army but the one he is playing is OP?

Oh if you do want to use daemons, i happen to own the start collecting nurgle daemons set! Personally i like it but it doesn't really have anything in it to deal with powerful melee. Its more of a bunch of infantry that are annoying to remove with shooting and can fuck up vehicles/big dudes but stuff like squads of berserkers fuck them up. The plague drones in it are pretty similar.

>Not wanting double gunslinger HQs

The reason I suggested 10 points in the first place was based on Plasmaguns to start with.

It's half the shots and range, so cut the price in half. 1 extra point for the close combat capability, and 1 extra for being assault rather than rapid fire. Round it up and you get 10.

That's perfectly fine as a side-grade to a combi-melta for a close combat HQ, while a shooting one can choose to invest more points and get what is effectively a plasmagun, albeit for only 20 points rather than the current 30.

Just because pistols are overcosted now doesn't mean you just have to slash the price to rock bottom. 10 points would get people looking at pistols. 5 points would get people spamming them.

dem feet

I wouldn't buy a plasma gun at more than 7 points desu. Probably why i don't ever do it.

Going by what they did in AoS, they have a category of monsters, or behemoths - lots of wounds.
The main problem with dreads is they were too easy to snipe off the board before they could do anything.

I would love gunslinger HQs, actually. I play Sisters and would love more Seraphim fighting style representation. Hell, in the 5th Codex, we could actually double up on PPs for superiors because it was a poorly written Codex.

Also, comparing them to plasma guns is bad because that implies plasma guns aren't overpriced as a 15pt rapid fire gun that has a 1/6 chance of killing the user each time he fires. A 10pt gun that also has a 1/6 chance of killing the user isn't good, and a 20pt fun that has a second 1/6 chance of killing the user isn't good either.

Solution: double grav gun prices

We have no idea how much they're actually taking from AoS though. Isn't monsters and shit having so many wounds partially a product of flat to wound rolls?

Honestly id love it if things began to have more wounds, instant death was made extremely rare and multiwound weapons became more common.

Cheese begets cheese faggot. You're the one choosing to play Ynnari.

>1/6 chance of killing the user

That's what re-rolls to hit, armor saves, feel no pain, and multiple wounds on HQs are for.

Models dying to plasmaguns doesn't happen nearly as often as you think.

Plasmaguns aren't overpriced, it's just that new forms of AP 2 like Grav are underpriced.

There are plenty of armies with plasma who dont get grav guns.

I hope more Ynnari models will have same feet and ass in future.

3 Ways to Play
Battleshock
Movement stats
Armor save modifiers
Charging units strike first

Pretty safe to say we are getting A LOT from AoS

Well, if those pics we got from the necromunda game are any indication, we may be seeing weapons that deal multiple wounds coming back. Those rules did still have strength and toughness and all that, but now a lascannon might deal d3 wounds or something instead of just 1 or instant death.

For HQs, that's all. Fine and dandy, but the basic squad leader isn't rocking a 2+ rerollable, twin linked, and feel no pain with 3+ wounds.

Does AOS still have d6 to run? Because i hate that shit.

That's not Ynnead, that's the Yncarne. akin to a Greater Demon of other chaos god. Don't even think this monster even speak at all and in the story it was kinda dumb.