/hhg/ The Horus Heresy General

When a RoW restriction say "~as part of the army," "in this army," or etc, does it only applies to the Primary Detachment? Or my whole force including Ally, LoW and Fortification?

Mix both,
Maybe 1-2 lasrifles sections behind an aegis line supported by 1-2 volkites or flamers inside a demolisher dracosan can be a good solution.

Both can be great, I just don't like las section in a regular multi-laser dracosan but las section are great to hold objective and are really cheap

Volkite section in a demolisher dracosan has an incredible fire power and doesn't cost that much. It's a great choice.

Nice trips btw

So just to be clear,

I was under the impression that the golden throne webway gate had been blown into an open rift, and that the Custodes had to spend every moment of the ten thousand years since warring to keep daemons from spilling into realspace.

I'm hearing now though that in master of mankind, the Custodes spill into the webway intentionally to try to fend off daemon hordes flooding that region of it, and at the end of the book the Emperor just shuts the gate and it's not really actually a problem other than that they can't use terra as a webway hub anymore.

What's actually going on?

I typed a huge long thing but fuck that let's get down to brass tacks.
> Thousand Sons
> mostly on foot (probably a mistake)

Will have at least one Rhino!
>From Forgeworld. (It's ok)
>From Games workshop. (I prefer this look)

Discuss or ignore because I can't decide.

I don't understand what you're asking.

Okay thanks.

>Nice trips btw
what

Seems I removed too many words.
Basically I don't know what Rhino model I should buy for my army.

The Forgeworld one that I feel is just ok but more 30k appropriate, especially because my army is mostly MkIII.

Or the Games Workshop 40k one that I like a lot more.

It's not that I hate the FW one I even have a original GW ver in my sisters army! But I just like the 40k one more.

Guys, if I plan to use 30k stuff in 40k games, should I keep using the AoD FoC or I ignore it and go straight to a CAD?

Buy the forge world rhino doors and stick them on a GW?

Brother, get the proton pack...

Are the white scars hamstringed by expensive outriders? I really want to go fast but their units costs are out of control

>binn user paints armies faster then I paint bolters

You're an inspiration.

Thank you. Just finished these guys.

Would a solar auxilia lasrifle section be appropriate for survivors of a dark age grenadiers?

Jeebus, good work.

Also, what do you think about Duncs advice for white here? Since you also paint white-ish and a lot of it, who would be better suited?

Fuck forgot the link.

youtube.com/watch?v=mGTJywbFeLk

Sure. They're essentially the same unit, grenadiers just have more options and less built-in bonuses rules wise.

I'm thinking a diorama of the evolution of the Death Guard.

I have multiples of each of these so I'll pick the best later.

1 - mk 2 marine in the Dusk Raiders colours of grey, red, gold (undone)
2 - this guy in mk 4 , or one of my cleaner unmarked mk 3s I have (maybe some imperial insignia like eagle with lightning on a leg guard)
3. - mk 3 guy
4 -mk 3 guy all in green
5- full on plague marine (when they come out)
6- conversion using blightking and plague marine bits.

Militia list, 3500 version. Idea is to have the force commander and enginseers accompany the ogryn. They give needed meltabomb and S8 powerfist support, the force commander gives them LD, and the enginseers repair the stormlord. I'll keep the malcador in front to give it some cover. Protecting the stormlord is #1 priority.

Force commander with iron halo, cyber familiar, digital lasers, melta bomb, power fist, planetary overlord, alchem jackers, survivors of a dark age

10 ogryn, 3 power axes, 4 power mauls, 3 boarding shields, carapace, frenzon

3 medics

3 enginseer adepts with meltabombs, 3 servitors with servo arms, 1 servitor with plasma fusil

20 grenadiers with lasrifles, rotor cannons, advanced weapons, meltabomb sgt
20 grenadiers with lasrifles, rotor cannons, advanced weapons, meltabomb sgt

10 grenadiers with laslocks, advanced weapons, sgt has meltabomb, hand flamer, power axe.
Land raider proteus with hull TL lascannon, armored ceramite, extra armor

10x AP2 missile launcher fire support squad

3x rapier laser destroyers
3x vanilla leman russes with hull multilasers
Stormlord with one set of sponsons

Aegis with quad gun

Although at 3500, I think I should find a way to take off 230 points for a thunderbolt heavy fighter with flare shield + ground tracking.

Huffing Nurgle.
Not even once.

too many steps for me

Why are people nerd-raging about the Master of Mankind book?

Probably because it portrays the whole corruption of horus and half the legions going traitor as something inconsequential.

Surely you are jesting, comrade? I am just unsure if it looks shit, as colour perception is very subjective.

Been thinking about cutting the barrels of phobos bolters in half to leave one hole instead of tow. Looks more iconic and there's art where phobos only have one hole. Anyone else tried this?

Not only was emps a bad dad, he was purposely so, and a total sociopath. Destroyed all tragedy of the HH when you call primarch's by index number.

Because people are angry that the webway was the master plan and the crusade was the second priority. Everyone wanted WAR WAR WAR FOREVER to be the goal, and got pissed off that the Emperor actually had a plan for humanity beyond shoot all the things.

They're also really angry that a nigh-omnipotent gestalt consciousness that's 32,000 years old isn't a loving, caring father to the things he literally built out of magic and science to lead his armies.

That's it. Those are the two reasons. The thirty two thousand year old demigod was emotionally distant, and he actually had a plan to advance humanity.

You can go for hyperbole either way. The arguments are all retarded and it was still a decent read.

But user, HH isn't a tragedy, Chaos is best stepdad after all. :^)

There's a fair welly of a stretch between "emotionally distant" and "refers to them by serial number and considers them to be tools".

Incompotent creator is the real issue. They all had adoptive dads, he just needed to work out which ones were lost causes and fix up the straying ones better, not be a good daddy.

Calling the webway project a lost cause because one gate got busted is pretty fucking dumb, and of course the actual physical colonisation of the galaxy is a bigger deal than transport infrastructure.

Except for the entire ending monologue when he calls Horus by name, right? Conveniently leave that out.

And he isn't calling them by serial number. Calling Dorn "The Seventh" isn't any disrespect. He's the seventh primarch. How is that derogatory? He doesn't call them "Subject number 98847749". He just says "The Seventh, The Twelfth, The Sixteenth." Calling them by their legion doesn't really insult them any more than calling Kharn "the Eighth Captain" did.

It's also taking place AFTER they've all fucked up, failed, and gone traitor, so maybe his demeanor frosted over a bit?

Physical colonization is a lot easier when you have an instantaneous transport system that doesn't involve sending your fleet through hell.

Just sayin'.

>Because people are angry that the webway was the master plan

When have people been mad at this, when it's been a thing for ages?

>isn't a loving, caring father

I never liked the idea that the Emperor has fee-fees for any of the primarchs, especially when it stopped him from slaying Horus.

So I'm really curious about seeing how they'll wrap up the battle now that he's suppose to be distant and unloving.

>So I'm really curious about seeing how they'll wrap up the battle now

Horus is probably going to be to strong for the Emperor to slay now, and is only overpowered because the chaos gods got distracted by another prank opportunity or something.

First you get there, then you build the road there.

Hell, if we had waited for the Emperor to finish his webway project, humanity would be Terra and a few isolated systems dotting the galaxy, under siege by orks and Chaos.

if I remember correctly didn't E refer to the primarchs as weapons and tools that he created (i.e. Magnus was to be interred on the Golden Throne) and they were to be used to expand his domain and keep all the legions in line
also >They're also really angry that a nigh-omnipotent gestalt consciousness that's 32,000 years old isn't a loving, caring father to the things he literally built out of magic and science to lead his armies.
expecting anything more than this from the big guy is a bit of a stretch. Pretty sure he even says he takes care of his custodes more than he does anyone else and about how he willingly sends of other people without thinking and isn't that way with the custodes
I really don't think E was attached to the kids, and could've told horus "hey I'm gonna do a thing so we don't have to use the warp you're in charge"

>That's it. Those are the two reasons
You're incredibly wrong.

People mostly are upset because

a) The Emperor is more attached to fucking Custodes or a random Martian Techpriest than the Primarchs.

b) If the Emperor had assessed the Primarchs from a detached point of view rather than having his vision colored by sentimentality he should have seen the betrayal coming from miles off. Hell, fucking Malcador was a skeptic and he was a measly few hundred years old. Shit just doesn't make sense. He spares Angron, why? 17 Primarchs is barely worse than 18.Why bother with Monarchia? Nuke that faggot Lorgar, you don't even care for him, or pull hi back to Terra and train him as special anti-demon force. The plot breaks down as soon as you make the Emperor act aloof towards the Primarchs due to actual emotional detachment.

c) The massive Chaos Wank with Drachnyen being the super unkillable Super Demon-Sue destined to kill the Emperor and nothing can change that because chaos is the best forever, take that dad!

They were tools. He literally built them out of magic and nonsense.

If I build twenty magnificent machines to keep my house and property in order, and then my lawnmower 012 starts bashing in my house's walls and mowing up my furniture, and my cat-robot 08 starts flaying and stringing up live mice to enforce mouse-justice instead of just getting rid of them, I'm not going to give them tender loving maintenance and whisper sweet nothings to them when 07 just windproofed the house and 13 just did my taxes. I'm going to consider them a fuck-ups and look into ways to stop using the ones that don't do their goddamn jobs.

I kind of want to do more of these descriptions, though.

>Magnus was to be interred on the Golden Throne
That's never stated outright and honestly it's more likely that was to be Vulcans job.

That method works on land, not at sea. Warp travel is a foreign ocean. Emps wanted a bullet train. Furthermore, Emps simply wanted to drain the galaxy of it's material resources to build a new post-Materium civilization in the webway, where mankind would be free to thrive in complete peace and safety.

XVIII just fucked your wife and ate your watermelon.

>fucking Malcador was a skeptic and he was a measly few hundred years old

Didn't read any of the books. Got it.

I always thought it was because of his psychic ability, but if you need someone to not die I guess Vulkan is the way to go

>because of his psychic ability
All Primarchs are latently psychic and the Thrones were Pain Engines first and foremost. Since the Emps wanted to get rid of Navigators anyway he could even have planned to use them as battery for the thing!

Boils down to human writers writing about superhuman characters. Been a core problem of any Astartes fiction since time immemorial. Emps is supposed to be a larger than existence figure, not Zack Snyder's Emperor.

I guess I should've specified on his increased ability or control over it compared to the other primarchs

If the Emperor acted human nobody would be complaining. Hell, that's what everybody assumed from old fluff, that he actually cared deep within and actually trusted the Primarchs. This mostly just reeks of trying to justify the Traitors post-act, and that's sad as fuck because otherwise MoM is a really fucking cool book, from the Custodes-Emps interaction, to the webway war to Arkhan Motherfucking Land, who designs supreme weapons of destruction with one servo arm, snacking on a delicious sandwich with the other all the while blowing demons apart with his 20" Servocock that shoots Plasma. Hell, even the support characters were good.

>If the Emperor acted human nobody would be complaining.
I would.

This is a man who has to physically build his companions, because baseline humanity is so far beneath him. A man that for millennia has looked into the eyes of the beings around him and had the thought pass his mind that "You aren't my friend, or even my companion. I had to build you myself so that you would survive long enough to accomplish anything of note. And I could still erase you if I coughed."

I doubt the Emperor even remembers how to smile. He should be inhuman as fuck. He's probably been betrayed a thousand times and let down a million. He should be at that point where he has no faith left in humanity to accomplish anything unless he's holding their hand.

>He wanted to build Commoragh

I want to play a Salamanders army with lot of infantery supported by dreads, contemptors and leviathans. But I also want to play a lots of flamers and meltas since it's the theme of sallies.

In legion vs legion situation does the flamer/heavy flamer a bad option ? Even with the +1S ?

My friends put apothicaries in almost every squad, they are really hard to kill, i'm scared that flamer is shit against them...

>He should be at that point where he has no faith left in humanity to accomplish anything unless he's holding their hand.

Read the book. The Emperor's driving motivation is literally lifting Humanity up so hard that they can keep themselves together, making himself obsolete in the process. Malcador argues your point of view that mankind will always need the Emperor. As I said, except for everything remotely concerning the traitor primarchs the book is very cool.

Stop projecting, user. Besides, Sallies are white people in blackface :^)
user's watermelon: F

>people didn't sail the seas, we just sit on our asses and waited for someone to invent a bullet train to take us across

Imperial Comorragh when.

>except for everything remotely concerning the traitor primarchs the book is very cool.

The book is still cool during those parts. It's perfectly in-character for the Emperor to talk dispassionately about the primarchs when A: half of them have fucked off and gone traitor, and B: He's talking to a custodian who thinks the primarchs were all failures.

You're right. That's why boats are still our main method of intercontinental transportation. They weren't made completely fucking obsolete by a far more efficient method that avoids the sea entirely.

Good job.

>The plot breaks down as soon as you make the Emperor act aloof towards the Primarchs due to actual emotional detachment.
It also makes the fight on the Vengeful Spirit even more nonsensical. Why would he allow himself to get mortally wounded attempting to redeem Horus if he didn't actually love him?

>He's talking to a custodian who thinks the primarchs were all failures.
This. People don't take into account he's th Master of Manipulation. He'll sound Democrat to Clinton and Republican to Trump. Probably doesn't even speak, just projects agreeing thoughts to your head do you stop bothering and promptly fuck off.
Geez, I cannot wait to complete the Webway so these boring fucks stop wasting my valuable time and I become obsolete at last

now all I can picture is SoS and SoB in tight bodysuits with no real armor
Imperial Comorragh when indeed

>Saboteurs lost bombs

What the actual fuck

I'm trying to build an infantry AL army and I fucking hate tanks. I want to take exactly 0. My Saboteur is part of my small number of anti tank solutions. His bomb got nerfed? I better still get a single auto-pen.

It's just a meme. Maybe people still having to be told that no, you can't use some sort of relic to pick your dice result for the Saboteur's auto-pen result to guarantee an Explodes! inspired it.

You do realize you're defending the "going to places and building infrastructure is stupid if you can't do it the fastest way possible." Meanwhile, in the real world, we use any method available the go to places and to build and expand, rather than just sitting on our asses, hoping someone makes the fastest way of travelling possible, before we went anywhere.

>rather than just sitting on our asses, hoping someone makes the fastest way of travelling possible, before we went anywhere.

When did this happen in the storyline we are actually arguing about? He was building the webway gates WHILE humanity was off fucking all the xenos up on the great crusade.

You're arguing that the great crusade didn't happen, and the emperor just wanted all of humanity to stay on Terra?

You're strawmanning so hard that it doesn't even remotely resemble the thing you're arguing about.

user, if it needs to be explained to you why the Emperor was fighting his damndest to get away from using the warp for travel, you clearly don't know 40k enough, even the most blinkered troll would know better.

...

What'ya mean, warp travel is nothing to worry about.

What sort of wildlife would Barbarus have?

Having read absolutely no DG centric BL HH books, nor the info on them in the FW black books, imma say slimy, bioluminescent invertebrates.

Wildlife I don't know, but it's implied the necromancers used lots of zombies and flesh-forged abominations.
Maybe it was Catachan lite, poisonous stuff but without the swamp trying to actively eat the human settlements

...

>but without the swamp trying to actively eat the human settlements
>implying the swamp isn't infected with Chaos magic and not actively out for human blood

Catachan settlements must burn the forest away, daily, or they'll be overrun.
Meanwhile, in Barbarus they were able to spend their time farming

Must be nice.

So why is the forest in Catachan more dangerous than the swamps of Barbarus?

Read Because that's what I'm replying to. Sure, faster method of transport is nice, but you're not gonna benefit from it if you don't have anywhere to go. If you don't unite humanity, if you don't recover lost tech, worlds and resources, if you don't build an empire, what good is your speedy bullet train? Sure, it's nice to visit all those millions of worlds now full of aliens and daemons.

Because on Barbarus it is the air itself that actively tries to kill you.

Isn't that Phyrr?

The webway has exit gates literally all over the galaxy.
This means protected, virtually risk free intergalactic travel to anywhere you want to go, well before enemies can detect you and begin countermeasures.
user, do you know what the webway is?

Do the writers know what the webway is if they think losing one door to it is a huge deal?

Anons apparently think a Webway is a thing you can hook a Magnus to.

Losing the only door they know about (that incidentally you made by literally breaking in to the thing), in a controlled environment to a catastrophic daemonic incursion in such a way that the architect of the project can't leave to do it twice?

Is there a warranty on the Magnus?

>"What are warranties, really?"

If the main Imperial Portal isn't surrounded by a planet of gold, what's the point?

Guys, was the webway project the Emperor's magnus opus?

How can Warranties be real if our Mangusses aren't real?

Carlos, you've surpassed your elf.

Do you?

The webway is also a fucking maze full of dangers, collapsed sections, defences, etc. It'll take a long time and careful planning to map it out and figure out where you're going. Even the Eldar don't know everything there is to know about the Webway. And all that's if the webway even lets you, seeing that the Necrons have to be quick about their trips before the webway turns on them.

And then, when you get your destination, now a world full of hostile aliens and/or Chaos, you have to fight your way through them to reclaim it. Now compare that to flying through the warp and reclaiming all the lost worlds when they're mostly human and can be convinced to join your empire with more ease than trying to purge the worlds from aliens and daemons. You also don't risk losing any lost tech they might have and you can take out alien empires while they're still small from the Age of Strife, rather than letting them grow and become a danger.

I know they're not miserable piles of secrets.
Carlos!