/swg/ Top Star Wars

the exhaust port wasn't the intentional design flaw he built-in, the reactor being so unstable was.

I don't think that's the implication.

Also, the phrase "single reactor ignition" is very evocative. It implies that there's some sort of process that goes: fuel reactor -> ignite reactor -> collect energy -> fuck that's a lot of energy -> immediately use it to power the weapon before the entire station explodes -> fire weapon.

You can't store that kind of power in a battery. A battery like that is just a bomb. So you build a reactor which is, by necessity, a kind of temporary bomb. It's not like a nuclear reactor, which is a nice steady state constant stream of power. It's more a two-stroke engine. Temporarily, to get the piston to move, there needs to be a controlled bomb-like environment.

So the Death Star is unstable because it needs to be. There's no two ways about it.

But SOMEONE put an unsheilded tube from the surface to the centre of this reactor. Tip the balance, and the entire thing falls apart. All the safety systems designed to prevent this were deliberately set up to conceal this possibility.

No, that's not what Galen said at all. He put an instability at the heart of the station, any explosion there would destabilize the whole thing. His message tells Jyn they need to access the plans in order to find the best way to place that explosion.

And the vent is ray shielded, it's why they had to use torpedoes. It's an exhaust vent so being shielded vs energy but letting physical ejecta through makes sense.

"ARE WE BLIND!?!?!?!?"

Explain it to us again why your opinion is right, I wouldn't mind a detailed list of why TFA ruined the lore.

Sure thing
>completely invalidated ROTJ
>brought nothing new to the setting
>rehash of ANH with none of the heart
>boring marysue protagonists
>shit on established lore about Star wars tech
>have to read a bunch of novels and comics for the world building to make a bit of sense
>even Lucasfilms hated it

>boring marysue protagonists

So, I've posted this before, but at the very least I can offer some counterpoint for Rey's immediate grasp of the Force.

Luke Skywalker, Jedi Knight, had.... maybe a week of actual training. Obi-Wan sat with him for a few hours on the Falcon, and he spent a few days with Yoda on Dagobah. That's it.

It wasn't particularly conventional training. Obi-Wan made him wear a blindfold and block irritating lasers. Yoda made him do headstands and run around a swamp. It doesn't make a lot of sense. Surely, becoming a Jedi takes more than a few pushups. What's really going on here?

Luke is a skeptic. He doubts everything, gets frustrated, and wants to quit. He knows you can't block blaster bolts while blindfolded. He knows an X-wing is heavier than rock. He knows these things because they are true... from a certain point of view.

But as we know, that's not the truth at all. To the Force, there is no weight. There is no time. That's why Yoda says, "Do, or do not. There is no try." Your effort has nothing to do with it. It's all about faith. If you believe that the X-Wing will be lifted, it will be lifted.

Yoda isn't building Luke's muscles. He's breaking down his resistance. The constant exercise and lousy food is just like boot camp, except this is some weird Gnostic version. It's the same thing with the training on the Falcon. Obi-Wan isn't training Luke to block blaster shots. He's forcing him to confront the impossible and accept it. On the final attack run on the Death Star, Obi-Wan says to "Use the Force, Luke." But he immediately says to "Let go."

One the main criticism of Rey's character in The Force Awakens was her ability to instantly, without any training, use the Force to do "difficult" tasks. She moves objects with her mind, plants commands, senses memories, all that, and with no training at all. How?

She believes. She is a complete and utter fanatic. She closes her eyes and really trusts in the Force. Luke constantly struggles to overcome his doubt and let go, but Rey doesn't. She believes unconditionally. For her, there is no "try".

Han tells her it's all true, and she believes.

Yeah but we're never given that as a reason. She just does and we have to figure out why.

>completely invalidated ROTJ
how so? You're going to need to back that claim up with an argument.

>rehash of ANH
Won't argue there, but it isn't a bad thing
>none of the heart
I disagree entirely. TFA had just as much if not more character development than ANH
>shit on established lore about Star wars tech
You talking about the Falcon jump? Canon changed. Get over it.
>have to read a bunch of novels and comics for the world building to make a bit of sense
Not true in the least
>even Lucasfilms hated it
Got a source?

The force doesn't work that way or there would have been more than 10000 Jedi in the order at the height of their power nor would they have required that children be young when their training started. How does she even know Jedi mind tricks is something you can do?

>She just does and we have to figure out why.
>Spoon-feed me

not that user, but it invalidated the defeat of the Empire since we still have the First Order, and the end of the Sith since we have Kylo and Snoke. It completely ruins the prophecy that Anakin will bring balance to the force. There's still the sith and the dark side. RotJ was supposed to be the end.

And as for the rest:
>completely invalidated ROTJ

Depends on your point of view. Sagas never really end. I guess we'll need to wait and see how these arcs are handled.

>shit on established lore about Star wars tech

Space Opera. Tech, time, distance, and competence all fluctuate as the setting requires.

>have to read a bunch of novels and comics for the world building to make a bit of sense

That's pretty much always been the case, if you're into a setting like this "making sense". I wouldn't worry too much about it though. It's never going to be fully consistent or logical. That's not what it's for.

Just nit picking, obi wan had a few days with luke counting tatooine and the falcon trip and yoda had at least a month because the falcon had to limp at sub light speed to bespin. Your point still stands, Im just being autistic

>establish in 6 previous films that these are all extremely hard to do things, an that requires training and extreme power in the force
>let someone with no training or even exposure in the force before hand just do whatever without explanation

>How does she even know Jedi mind tricks is something you can do?
She heard the legends of jedi like Luke and figured it's something all force users can do. She believed blindly and it payed off.

>invalidated the defeat of the Empire since we still have the First Order, and the end of the Sith since we have Kylo and Snoke
By that logic, so did the EU, since imperial factions and Sith both existed post-RotJ.

>Its another "The Force Awakens" was GOOD/AWFUL thread

I'l give you that, and that's why I didn't enjoy or really read the EU

>nor would they have required that children be young when their training started

Come on, dude.

You want to raise fanatics. You want to raise true believers. Do you start them old, whiny, and skeptical? Or do you start them as young as possible? This is religion we're talking about here.

Remember, they have to believe that they can literally do impossible things.

And since the Force seems to be tied to bloodlines, and the order is small and monastic, and since most people aren't /really/ that good at believing in impossible things, it makes sense to have a small group of monk-wizard-knights.

Luke and his friends saved the galaxy from the empire. Han and Leia was supposed to live happily ever after and Luke was supposed to train a new Jedi order. In tfa Luke failed hard and ran away into hiding, Han goes back to being a fucking smuggler and Leia is now in a new not-rebellion fighting against a new not-empire.
And no I will not get over the Falcon jump. How would you like it if someone new decided to retcon that you don't need a Geller field to travel through the warp or that the Red color in MtG is now about card control and shit
Yeah it is true since the movie does a piss poor job of explaining why the NR is not seated in Coruscant and why they don't believe the resistance about the first order or how the first order can fund their warmachine and etc.
And go look up and Pablo Hidalgo tweets. He ranks tfa with aotcs.

>There's still the sith
Snoke isn't Sith, why even start this fight you don't know anything about it?

> and yoda had at least a month because the falcon had to limp at sub light speed to bespin

It was moving at the speed of plot. Could have been a month. Could have been 2 days. Doesn't really matter either way - clearly, that's insufficient time to become a Jedi.... unless it's not about the training at all.

Well, it is a day ending in a "y"...

That's what happens literally every time they put "Star Wars" in the title.
OP should know better.

It ruined the cast of the OT
-Han's a deadbeat husband who abandons his wife and kid and is finally killed by his said kid
-Luke is a failure and a hermit. The Jedi Order is still dead after Return of the Jedi and a bunch of new darksiders have taken over
-Leia is still a Rebel leader after the fall of the Empire has failed to revitalize the Republic politically. If anything the sequels are more pro-Empire and shows the Republic is worse.

So in a nutshell the OT cast failed harder than the prequel cast (despite the former's victory in ROTJ over the Emperor and subsequent defeat of the Empire), despite the latter cast handing the reins of government to said Sith Lord and later Emperor, giving him emergency powers and helped fight the Clone Wars.

TFA is a grimdark bad end. It shares many of the similar features with the tail end of the Legends EU in trying to make everything worse for the sake of drama and escalation.
-Luke's trainees are slaughtered for Sith Wannabes
-the NR as a political institution fails
-Han and Leia's son becomes a Sith Lord

Lack of original ideas that are mostly either in the current EU or Legends
-another superweapon/death star, but bigger and more powerful
-another Skywalker who has fallen to the darkside again
-a stormtrooper who joins the Rebels/Resistance
-a junk dealing skywalker/solo descendent
-another jedi purge

It foregoes world building or character development for senseless mayhem, violence and action and nostalgia for the OT. Instead of building it owns stories and worlds and challenges for the new generation and cast, it just steals the arcs from the OT characters and ruins the OT characters by making them fail so that Rey and Finn and Ben can have a trilogy.

You misunderstood the movie, mate. The exhaust port wasn't an intentional design flaw. The thing that Erso did was make it so that the reactor would fuckin' explode if hit with a single proton torpedo.

He says "reactor module" like a dozen times, and says "exhaust port" zero. Don't base your opinion on shitty assumptions. Especially if you don't actually understand movies.

Reactors are not temporary bombs. They're the opposite of that.

>establish in 6 previous films that these are all extremely hard to do things, an that requires training and extreme power in the force

See:

Not that well established. It's not really about the training, because the training makes no sense. It's about the mental training/belief/conversion process.

>let someone with no training or even exposure in the force before hand

Again, we don't really know that.

But she's clearly heard stories. Otherwise the "it's true" line doesn't make a lot of thematic sense. She's heard stories about Jedi and their powers, but in a legendary sense.

And then some guy says, "It's true. I was there." And she goes full DAESH.

Fucking this.

>It ruined the cast of the OT
You can't pass the torch to a new generation of heroes if the OT cast are still great at what they do and keeping evil at bay. You need them to get old and shitty so the new generation has a reason to exist.

>Lack of original ideas that are mostly either in the current EU or Legends
Right now, pitch an original idea. Come up with a plotline that hasn't been done in the setting before.

I agree with what that guy says. I'm saying the movie is bad for never giving us that in film itself and forcing us to dig for it. It's not reasoning it out, almost no ones gets what that user is saying. If 95% don't get your message, you're shitty at sending a message.

>Reactors are not temporary bombs. They're the opposite of that.

If you're thinking "Reactor" as in "steady state nuclear reactor" than yes, not a bomb.

If you're thinking "Reactor" as in "single reactor ignition" and "giant energy /spike/ needed to power a planet-killing laser for a few seconds" then yes, the reactor pretty much has to be a bomb.

The alternative is that the batteries the reactor is filling are bombs. And that's silly, because why "ignite" a reactor just to store the energy?

This guy gets it.

It's made extremely clear that it takes proper training and meditation to use force abilities and especially something like a mind trick. It isn't just clap your hands to believe. It takes years and effort to be good with a lightsaber and force powers such as mind tricks are arguably harder than that. Also notice everytime we have seen a jedi use a mind trick prior to tfa the Jedi has used a hand gesture. Notice how Rey didn't even have to do that.

It could be a different type of evil. Let them be heroes of the New Republic desperately trying to keep the First Order/Empire Remants from rising again. Don't let the OT be failures, just let them be passing the torch. The heroes start out neutral with the old guard getting too old to keep doing what they do over starting out with a failure on their hands.

I believe it's the writers taking the force back to being belief based mysticism rather than the genetic superpowers that the EU slowly turned it into, though it doesn't really do a good job of showing us that.
>Don't base your opinion on shitty assumptions. Especially if you don't actually understand movies.
That's unnecessarily hostile, we really shouldn't have put Star Wars on the thread. I'd rather have X-Wing builds than yet another argument.

>Han's a deadbeat husband who abandons his wife and kid

Never though of Han as a good parent. It doesn't seem to be in his nature. Makes his "heroic smuggler can-do anything" character more interesting.

As for the rest though, valid.

>Waaahhh waahhh stop being mean to me for being wrong!

>Let them be heroes of the New Republic desperately trying to keep the First Order/Empire Remants from rising again
That's what TFA was... like, literally, to the letter.

>You need them to get old and shitty so the new generation has a reason to exist.
Or they could still remain competent but simply not be on the front lines or right next to the new cast. Stick Leia in a CIC like any normal high-ranking officer. Han gets a capital ship or takes the Falcon and does wingman things. Luke does Jedi/soldiery/Aragorn things on the other side of the conflict that somehow lets the new heroes strike the killing blow on their end. There's plenty of ways to keep the old heroes around without completely fucking them over.

Han was a fucking general and hero of the rebellion. How the fuck did he 180 and turn back into a smuggler and a shitty one at that.

>proper training and meditation to use force abilities

Where? Where in the films is this made clear?

>It takes years and effort to be good with a lightsaber and force powers

See: At best, Luke had 2 months of training if we're being generous, and he did pretty darn well. And his training wasn't even about swordfighting! How the heck do you explain that away?

>Notice how Rey didn't even have to do that.

Noticed, shrugged, and discarded.

If a hand gesture makes your magic work, sure. But it seems like a very... odd requirement.

Correct. The title of the film alone should explain that.

Oh come on, the dude's defending his wrong position and using it as the lynchpin in his opinion about the movie. He needs a little tough love.

Also, I F5 every /swg/, not just ones with "Star Wars" in the title.

Don't just presume I'm a normie. I'm a Jedi Prince-loving, Sienar-shitposting faggot like the rest of you.

no more war to fight. Gotta make money once those rebellion credits dry up. The New Republic senate probably didn't want a smuggler around their navy for any longer than he was necessary. Look how they treated Leia after learning about her dad.

>Right now, pitch an original idea. Come up with a plotline that hasn't been done in the setting before.
A Black Sun leader who loves historical artifacts is hoarding old Jedi stuff before the Empire gets their hands on it, but he is being obstructed by a Hutt who is just a petty dickhole doing it for the sheer sake of it. And Lando is there.

People fall back into old patterns all the time. Han probably loved the praise and the heroism, but hated the paperwork and the tedious, complicated decisions and the politics. He'd happily lead strike teams or whatever, but discussing garrison force disarmament and treaty obligations... not his thing.

So when things went awry and he realized yelling wasn't helping, he did the only thing he was ever really good at. Smuggling.

No, the First Order already rose and created, somehow (despite having a galactic empire-sized state to fund it), a weapon greater than the Empire ever could.

>bitches about TFA
>complains about a character doing the same thing they did in the EU

AHAHHAHAHAHHA

>You can't pass the torch to a new generation of heroes if the OT cast are still great at what they do and keeping evil at bay.

Of course you can. Its called retirement. Its just that hack writers can't get it into their heads that you can have a just system that deserves to be protected by a new generation of heroes, so they have to bullshit up a new reason for the heroes to be Rebels/Resistance.

Or they could have just moved the timeline further and left the original trilogy heroes alone.

>Right now, pitch an original idea. Come up with a plotline that hasn't been done in the setting before.

Extra-galactic exploration

CorSec Police Procedural where a Human and Selonian are reluctantly made partners to solve a string of robberies and they'd better solve it by Monday or the angry Drall captain wants their badges on his desk.

Jedi graduate of Luke's academy travels to a savage planet with valuable resources and has to negotiate with local feudal politics, seductive space queens, and the villain unleashing an ancient Sith artifact upon the galaxy and now he/she has to deal with it/get word back to the Republic of the threat.

>a weapon greater than the Empire ever could
The empire helped... Starkiller Base was the planet from which the Empire mined the metals to build the deathstars. It is reasonable to assume it was the late Empire who started building the weapon.

But didn't he and Liea stay together and and raise at least 1 kid who became a Rogue Squaddie?

Y'know I'd honestly watch a Star Wars buddy cop TV show.

>Y'know I'd honestly watch something worse than the christmas special
Me too. but I wouldn't like it.

Yeah, but none of that means that Han didn't go right back to smuggling.

>CorSec Police Procedural
Corran Horn origin story? Sounds like fun if Stackpole's writing could be supplemented by someone of Allston's caliber and humor.

I dunno, it could be a fun bit of skits. It doesn't have to be super serious, and a bit of cheese is always fun.

Dude are you blind? Why else did Luke need a teacher? Why else did he need training? Why did Anakin need a master? Why is there a master/padawan relationship? Why was Obi-Wan 25 before he finally became a knight? TFA is the one that makes it seem like to learn the force all you have to do is believe which contradicts everything we have seen before. I can't wait till TLJ and Lucasfilms to fix all the damage that JJ and bad robot did to the canon.

>I'd honestly watch a Star Wars buddy cop TV show.

This is what the prequels should have been with Anakin and Obiwan

youtube.com/watch?v=350PQ6LU2sQ

I'd buy that for a dollar

>Why else did Luke need a teacher?

Because he didn't believe. He was a skeptic. He kept trying because he thought "If I /work hard enough at this with my brain/ the X-wing will lift". He needed someone to tell him /not/ to try, because there is no such thing as trying.

You either believe, or you don't. You can't try to believe.

That's the spiritual aspect people miss. It's not about "learning Jedi powers" or "how to wave your hand in just the right way". It's more about learning about yourself. Learning to let go of the skeptical shackles.

>Why did Anakin need a master?

Same deal. Took him less time though. Luke was pretty stubborn.

>Why is there a master/padawan relationship?

Because midway through, Lucas forgot what he (or his editors) were doing, and kind of lost the plot a bit.

Or it may have been that the old Jedi were all about the "safe" path of belief. Slow, careful progress, as to avoid the risk of the Dark Side.

Rey is just like "FUCK IT. SAFETY OFF". Sure, she's risking the Dark Side path, but she's not aware of those dangers (yet).

>all the damage that JJ and bad robot did to the canon.

This canon - all of it - is pretty nearly unsalvageable if what you want is consistency and logic. It's like a gigantic floating trash island. Sometimes it rolls over, but it's still a giant trash island. Don't build your house on it.

>You can't pass the torch to a new generation of heroes if the OT cast are still great at what they do and keeping evil at bay.

Then introduce new villains and new challenges for the new cast. Don't recycle the Emperor (as Snoke), the Empire (as the First Order) or Vader (as Kylo Ren) or Tarkin (as Hux). The OT was the the Rebels vs Empire and the PT was the Republic vs Sith. The Sequel Trilogy needs to do its own thing. Instead they borrowed everything from the OT and as a consequence made Luke/Leia/Han failures. Make the NR Post-Empire as a setting work. Make the NJO different from the Old Jedi. Do something original instead of Rebels Mk 2 versus Empire Mk2. Scale back the existential galactic wide threats. It doesn't have to be the biggest and baddest threat ever.

> Don't recycle the Emperor (as Snoke), the Empire (as the First Order) or Vader (as Kylo Ren) or Tarkin (as Hux).

I'll accept the first 2. I won't accept the second set. Both Kylo and Hux are very, very different archetypes. You might not like them, but they are at least different.

This guy gets it.

Kylo Ren is not Vader. He's emotional and not in control of himself. His flaws actually make him one of the more interesting new characters, whereas Vader was interesting because of how in-control and reserved he was.
Also, beyond being imperial military leaders, Hux and Tarkin have little in common thus far.

Yeah Hux is shittier

>It's like a gigantic floating trash island. Sometimes it rolls over, but it's still a giant trash island. Don't build your house on it.

Unless you're some kind of cartoon band

To be fair, it's Peter Cushing. Most people are going to be shittier than him.

>kylo emotional
>vader not emotional
Is it just me or was he pretty damn emotional for almost all of it. Being reserved in front of peons is one thing, but vader goes at obiwan with pure hate, and then duels him in 4 with some emotion since he is once again in front of a man that cut off 3/4 of his extremities. He fights luke with lots of emotion on bespin, and luke does the same. He shows emotion right up to the very end, with contempt and love and hate all wrapped up into one. Hell he choked out the moff for insulting his "religion" and when the DS2 wasnt on schedule to be finished.

The mistake people make is that the mask and the resperators voice dont give him the outward appearence of emotion so they assume he doesnt have any. Its his actions that make it visible.

Yeah fuck show-don't-tell storytelling. I like my movies explained in great detail by the characters at every step.

Kylo is Vader if he fell as a Padawan and never actually fought a war.

I get this, but I feel that it's not a very good character moment. You don't really take your first steps into a whole new world if it turns out that you were tapdancing there the whole time.

It's bad story telling when 95% of the audience doesn't get it.

I suspect Rey's arc is going to be the opposite of Luke. Luke slow waded into the pool from the shallow end. Rey jumped into the deep end and is going to need someone to pull her free.

His arc was about learning to believe. Her arc might be about the dangers of fanaticism.

WHO THE FUCK KEEPS FUCKING UP THESE OPS!!!!!!!!

>95% of the audience doesn't get it
It's just a really dumb audience

Ever played Bloodborne?

That game has a story, but it's a fucking weird and complicated story. It takes a lot of effort and time to untangle it.

But even if you don't understand all aspects of the story, it's a great game.

He didnt go back to smuggling in EU.
Up until thrawn is killed he is a general, and acts as an escort for his diplomat/chief of state wife
Once the kids are born he helps raise them and helps luke build his njo and acts as an intelligence officer for the new republic
He becomes an advocate for corellias reunification and a private citizen. He invests in some of Lando's companies and makes fat stacks.
He also keeps ties with the rimward private sector and advocates for the end of galactic slavery.

Really its only when jacen starts mucking about that he goes back to being "criminal" and even then hes more of a privateer if anything. Like a refugee from his own sons actions.

R1 had Hannibal in it, so it was pretty much an auto-win for me

>Because midway through, Lucas forgot what he (or his editors) were doing, and kind of lost the plot a bit.
I disagree, actually. It's a bit of headcanon welding and EU, but we see several Jedi who don't fit the typical "I carves it up with my lightsaber" mold. I could see the Master/Padawan relationship as something that allows a trainee who shows an aptitude for a specific field to get more effective one on one training. So Jedi Master Mek Anic takes on Padawan Karr Fixer to hone those skills more effectively, or Master Sord Yuser and Blayde Wahrior or whatever. Though, I'd wish Padawans were taken at 15 or 16, rather than 13, to give them all a more comprehensive grounding in the basics.

M9-G8: Underrated Astromech or Total Sack of Shit?

I think this upgrade is really interesting in its design but I struggle to think of lists and situations where it's really worth the opportunity cost of the Astromech slot. The offensive ability to lock onto friendlies to give them a micro target lock effect is really cool though the only rebel ship that doesn't naturally have a target lock of its own is the captured TIE. I think maybe you could do something interesting with two TIEs and an ARC with M9 and Weapons Engineer but that's an already pretty expensive ARC loadout just to make TIEs a little more effective at the cost of being able to do any rerolls on the ARC.

Defensively I think M9 might have a good place on low pilot skill ships who want target locks for ordnance, like gold or grey squadron Y-wings, since the ability to make your attacker reroll a die before you then spend the lock to fire a torpedo could be the difference between dying early and living with one hull to fire that second torpedo later. However putting an expensive astromech like M9 on a low skill, low maneuverability ship like the Y-wing, especially one loaded up with torpedos, seems like putting too many eggs in a basket unlikely to carry their weight, and with the Y-wings low-green dial it seems like the slot would be better spent on astros like the R2 or R5-K6 to make taking red moves less punishing.

What are your opinions on M9-G8? Had any great successes with it or is it just one of those cards that you never touch since there's other, better options for the slot?

Hux is actually the one character I think is 100% dead-on perfect.

My thoughts are that xwing is a lame bullshit game

He is literally just a Hitler strawman

>that list

Two words: Space Opera.

That's completely fine.

He's got some nuance to him though. It's enough to make him an interesting addition.

This. it's a literal master-apprentice connection. Basic Jedi training at the temple gives padawans the basics and fundamentals, field experience with a master allows for pragmatism and mastering a niche within the Jedi order.

Can you point some out because I honestly can't see it.

Sure.

He's got that kind of fierce craziness that implies a touch of doubt too. It's like he's trying to convince /himself/ all the time.

And he's young. Weirdly young, for his job. It makes it clear that this is a /new/ Empire, run by the young, who grew up among the legends of Tarkin and Vader and the rule of law. And he's competent-ish, from what we see of him and given the genre's constraints.

But he has to work for a crazy wizard overlord. He has to manage this unstable but powerful teenager. He has no idea why Luke Skywalker is so fucking important.

Tarkin would never scream and rant like he does. He lacks the aristocratic smugness.

Fair enough points

Did a short video on the stresshog, since I totally left it out of my Y-wing stuff. Unless you're relatively new to X-wing, I'd say ignore this post because it is fairly basic stuff if you've got your feelers in the competetive scene.
youtube.com/watch?v=zpCULzAQ8Fw

I hope we get from him what we never got from Tarkin

This thread isn't for you to shill your shitty channel