/STG/ - Star Trek General

How many different sizes of BoP are there? They seem to switch between roughly the size of the Defiant, nearly as large as the Enterprise and a few sizes in between.

There are definitely 2 separate classes. The smaller design is the B'rel while the larger is the K'vort.

The K'vort is muxh more common in TNG while the B'rel is the only version we see in DS9.

As for the inconsistencies in size, I figure that's down to how individual houses build them. We've seen that individual ships basically belong to a house and serve at the convenience of the chancellor. I figure that, besides a central imperial shipyard, most ships are built as part of the personal fleet of a house. Or at least by the major houses, to be distributed to lesser houses that make alliance with them. Hence different BoPs are built to different specifications.

I believe it is just two. Small ship original/DS9 and the 300m across 'wings up' version that only appeared in TNG.

ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/bop-size.htm

I like that. It presents a decent reason for the House of Duras to consistently stay in a position of power despite sucking ass so hard. Maybe they just happen to own one of the best appointed shipyards in the Empire, so a lot of houses are forced to rely on their generosity.

Just as a follow up to the debate at the end of last thread: Did the Romulans and Klingons ever actually go to war?

I know the Romulans attacked Khitomer and Narendra 3, but the Klingons don't seem to have responded with anything other than some grumbling about honour. That seems like an uncustomary restrained response from the war loving Klingons.

This is entirely headcanon and not backed up with anything but I assume the Klingons sent a attack force to Romulus but got BTFO because they didn't know anything about the region of space the Romulans lived in.

Raids in both directions are probably fairly common. Neither side is particularly eager to escalate to full-scale war unless they have a decisive advantage, like if Sela's plans with the Duras had panned out.

Yeah it seems like the Klingons just didn't have the capacity to go to war with the Romulans. And of course, the Romulans knew that all too well.

They were probably still under the Federation's thumb at that point, so they had no alternative but to take their lumps.

...

...

It's easy to forget just how often an entire Connie crew dies in TOS. Exeter, Constellation, Defiant, Intrepid, Excalibur. The Miranda "all hands lost" meme really should have some competition.

Oberths have a fairly poor track record too

>2293 - Praxis explodes. It is necessary for the KE to come to the UFP to sue for peace, or else the KE will cease to be a functioning political body.
>2344 - Narendra III attack. Enterprise-C destroyed by Romulan ships. Tensions ease between KE and UFP.
>2346 - KE and RSE are officially allies, but Duras conspires against the KE and Romulan forces attack Khitomer.

To me, it appears that the Klingon Empire was rebuilding in the fifty years after Praxis (likely with a lot of help from the UFP). They allied with the Romulans as well, or solidified their alliance with them after the exchange of cloaking devices and more advanced starships. And then the Romulans abused that friendship repeatedly.

It doesn't help that some of the early episodes of TNG claim that the Klingon Empire joined the UFP, which muddy the waters a little (because then, the attack on Narendra III would have been an attack on the Federation, rather than the Klingon Empire).

Part of it was budget. Building a new model starship and shooting the effects for it would have been expensive, so reusing the one they already had (or a cheap kit they could just assemble and damage - like what happened with Constellation) was less resource intensive.

Mirandas on the other hand, are DS9's whipping boy.

>while the B'rel is the only version we see in DS9.

Isn't the Rotarran a K'vort?

No. DS9 station shots show it much closer to the Defiant in size. Martok got put on a baby BoP because Gowron wanted him to die.

I'm thinking of writing something along the lines of a Constitution "all hands lost" story, but I feel it requires more effort and care than just a couple of lines. In TOS we know that there are 12 Constitution class starships as of the episode Tomorrow is Yesterday. My Starfleet Technical Manual lists somewhat more than that, and I've considered taking a name from that list and giving it a go.

With the Mirandas, they're not a protagonist ship, and we see so many of them post WoK that you can be forgiven for not developing it beyond "haha! I thought this was funny!"

Speaking of which, has anyone been saving the AHL bits? I know I wrote a bunch of them, but I didn't think to save them because I didn't think they'd last as long as they did.

>With the Mirandas, they're not a protagonist ship,

You shut that shit right the fuck up there, user.

70 years after it was constructed, this ship here? She's still a competitor; when refit properly, the equal of a brand-new Centaur-class Medium cruiser. She may not be the youngest girl at the ball, but she'll still turn a head or two, and whip the fucking PANTS off any upstart terrorists/freedom fighters/pirates who get their hands on a few upgunned runabouts and think they're hot shit because they can blow a merchantmen freighter out of space.

70 years after being commissioned, a Miranda can still hold the line in frontline combat with Jem'hadar warships, Klingon warships, etc. Yes, they tended to blow up a lot - but so did the enemy ships.

So this ship? She's very much a protagonist ship. Just the protagonist of a different story.

Hold your horses Captain Dodge. You'll win those wargames through unorthodox command style and clever tricks and nonsense, not bluster.

The B'rel is way smaller than the Defiant, though.

Don't forget having and gleefully exploiting a crew of hypertalented eccentrics that don't fit in on more normal crews.

Even so, the Miranda's a starship. A Federation starship. Even old, she's technologically advanced, and when properly refit? Hoo boy.

>Speaking of which, has anyone been saving the AHL bits? I know I wrote a bunch of them, but I didn't think to save them because I didn't think they'd last as long as they did.

I don't save all of them but i tend to hold on to ones that I think might make good scenarios.

I'm not saying the Miranda's bad. She just got shit on because they decided to stop beating up Oberths for some reason.

The Rotarran isn't, since it's bigger than the original BoP. BoP sizes are all over the place in Trek. See: .

When they came up with the Miranda, the original idea was a ship that could match a Constitution in firepower, just without all the scientific and exploratory facilities, and probably with fewer amenities. Something that could patrol the Klingon and Romulan borders between starbases without being expected to do deep-space exploration missions like the Constitution. Now on one hand it doesn't say much that it could match the firepower of a ship that was 40 years old at the time of Wrath of Khan, but on the other hand it's not like the Miranda was a slouch.

Oberths were strictly science vessels, it made no sense that they'd be brought up into a front-line fight unless Starfleet were past the point of absolute desperation.

Or, you know, it's the time of STO and cheap, transporter-replicator ship refits are available. And even so, it's not much of a starship. It's basically a lightly armed survey vessel.

The Miranda is the lightest-weighted Starfleet vessel that we've seen as a proper warship - by Starfleet's standards, that is.

Honestly, I feel the DS9 fights could have been done a lot better if the fights had had the Federation starships being extremely outnumbered, and even their lightweight ships were accounting for several times their mass in enemies before going down.

The Miranda was a match for the REFIT Constitution, not the original Connie. An un-refit Connie would get her ass handed to her by a Miranda of the TMP era, and although future refits didn't do much to change the exterior appearance of the vessel, it's fairly safe to say that Mirandas - at least, those which were in service and refit regularly - were still very capable ships deep into the DS9 era.

There's actually some good Veeky Forums-originated fanon that explains why Mirandas died like Imperial Guardsmen during the Dominion War. The short version is that they were upgunned and upengined to fully modern spec, but the shields and other defensive measures were left original; they were being turned into glass cannons as quickly as possible in preparation for the Borg, against whom the difference in shielding would have been moot anyway, then they got into a fight where the difference would have mattered a lot. So they were fighting the Dominion with shields anywhere from 40-70 years old, but phasers and photon torpedoes that were at most a year old.

Tack on to this the fact that we know Starfleet was understaffed in TNG following Wolf 359 and had a ton of ships that were still being built (remember when Picard ordered ships that weren't complete yet into the task force so they could set up the tachyon grid?). Chances are, the Mirandas in the Dominion War were not only upgunned patrol ships, but they likely had skeleton crews.

The Miranda isn't bad. The AHL thing wasn't ever supposed to be saying that. It was poking fun at Trek's tradition of throwing Mirandas (and her subclasses) at things she shouldn't be up against in order to generate tension.

I've got the pasta here in pic related. I also made it, but figured people like screen caps more.

More fun Miranda stuff before I go: A ship with her registry number (NCC 1864) was under repair in the TOS episode Court Martial. So either Reliant has the registry number of another ship, or she's the same ship from twenty years earlier (the memory alpha page suggests she's the same ship).

>memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/USS_Reliant

>So this ship? She's very much a protagonist ship. Just the protagonist of a different story.

That raises an interesting question. What ships would you protag-up on? and why?

A Galaxy that actually conducts its original mission of exploration, rather than returning home every season.

A Nova class, on a "planetary survey mission" along the Klingon border after relations sour between the Empire and UFP. Because you really need a second massive sensor suite to "scan planets".

Ahhh, yes! Thank you, I needed to save that.

I was using that as the basis for a Trek campaign I was going to have set in the post-Dominion-War era, pre-STO era time. Scotty was in charge of the S.C.E., and he was leading a program to pull more of the old, Klingon-War-That-Never-Happened, Miranda-contemporary-but-not-reactivated-because-they-weren't-Miranda ships, like the Akula, Abbé and Loknar, out of mothballs and refit them to FULL spec, not upgunned patrol-boat spec, to help fill in Starfleet's numbers in the refit yards while Starfleet unfucked its shit and got production of newer classes like the Centaur, Sovereign, etc, underway in proper trim.

The idea was going to be that the PCs were all freshly-commissioned Ensigns with a mandate to go to the old mothball yards, sort themselves into groups, pick a ship (between Akula, Abbé and Loknar,) get it into flyable condition and take it to the refit yard, then participate in the refit. (Along the way there was due to be an adventure, heh.)

To quote Captain James Tiberius Kirk, "A ship's a ship."
I could see any ship being protag'd upon, depending on how early/late in the campaign it is. Starting out, you could even have something like the Okinawa/Masterson-class police frigate. (The Masterson is fanon, but that's not nessessarily wrong.) At the end, you could be cruising around on a Sovereign, an Excalibur, a Galaxy, or another Space Whale.

Me? Ships I'd love to protag on, in no particular order
> Akula
> Miranda
> Constitution
>> Refit only, goldrabola deflector and derpball nacelles need not apply
> Excelsior
>> U.S.S. Excelsior NX/NCC-2000 specifically, but any member of the class in general
> Ambassador
>> Specifically an Excelbassador, not the Galaxybassador, if I had my druthers
> Akira
> Defiant
> Intrepid
>> Yes, I went there
> Nebula
> Galaxy
> Luna
> Sovereign
> Excalibur-class
>> Please not Ark Royal, I wouldn't last a week without going full Innatubes and getting probusted by Dave for intruding upon his kingdom
>>> Then again, please Ark Royal. I want to learn weeaboo fightan' from the Weeaboo Fightan' Sisters and zweihandin' from Mother Coldsteel.
> Valkyrie
> Okinawa
> Masterson
> Abbé
> Loknar

anyone else think it's a little boring that by the end of the dominion war the federation is the ultimate power in the quadrant?

It'd take decades for the Klingons/Cardassians to ever rebuild and the Cardassians would likely just become a client state for the Federation if the Federation helped them rebuild.

The Feds and Romulans were on mostly equal footing, and the Feds themselves had to rebuild a ton, what fucked the Romulans over was the power vacuum caused by Nemesis and the subsequent destruction of Romulus.

I feel like I'd be most interested in a medium size ship that's comfortable enough to live on but still expected to swing by starbases once or twice a month on its patrol routes instead of doing months-long deep-space surveying.

There's always the Romulans. Before Nu-trek came and shat all over it, the new cold war was between the UFP and a relatively unscathed Romulan Star Empire.

Other than that... I guess the Tholians and Sheliak were around. Not that I'd encourage much development of either race, seeing as they're both ethnocentric extremphile races with a particular distaste for humanoid life. And that's basically the most boring form of villain you can have in something like Star Trek

Yeah I forgot to mention the supernova.

I always assumed the Federation could 1v1 any of the alpha quadrant empires but it couldn't 1v2 the Romulans/Klingons or Klingons/Cardassians but now with the Klingons and Cardis out of the picture the Federation seems to just be unstoppable.

Even if the Klingons got back to their pre-war strength they'd always be on the losing side of the tech race.

Like I said, the Feds definitely got hurt by the war as much as everyone else did, and that's not counting that they've born the brunt of both Borg attacks, which ended up targeting Earth specifically.

Roms got rekt as hard as the klinks and the feds in the Dominion War, if not harder. It's what allowed Nemesis to happen, after all. That kind of stuff doesn't happen to a strong empire.

What rekt the Roms more than the war itself was the Tal Shiar being retarded prior to that. For the war itself the Roms entered late, and once the Breen showed up the Klingons were the ones doing the bulk of the fighting until the Feds engineered a counter to the Breen weapons. Of the four major powers (Fed, Rom, KDF, Cardie) the Roms probably suffered the least from the war itself.

It's also quite likely that they had the smallest force in the first place, and from what we've seen they just used their big ships. Fewer baskets, and more eggs in those baskets.

That's the federation if anyone. Both the Romulans and Klingons can rely on the martial nature of their societies to help replenish their military. However Starfleet is entirely voluntary.

We're all also completely discarding the Dominion as a potential future threat. Now that their crazy gods have been cured by Odo, I reckon there's 50/50 odds that they try and start shit again. Except now they've learned not to trust Alpha quadrant races as allies and will try to fully support their war from the Gamma Quadrant.

and what's to stop the Federation from just mining the wormhole again?

Now now user, the Nova's a perfectly normal science ship. It's the Intrepid that you want with the god tier sensor capabilities, demigod tier speed, and decent combat capabilities. For, uh, deep space science.

The Nova's front portion is dominated by a secondary deflector array, which is excessive given the fact that the Oberth could survey planets just fine. It has survived conflicts as bad as the Intrepid despite having an official mission profile of planetary surveyance. She's benefited from being the leftover design for the Defiant class. And I think it looks better than the Intrepid.

Even if she was never intended as a spy-ship, she has all the capabilities to fill in as one.

The Dominion is patient, if nothing else. If they must wait for decades to strike, if they must develop new technologies and infiltrate the Federation on a much longer basis, they will do so.

It is impractical for the Federation to permanently mine the wormhole. They have interests in exploring/expanding through it. So long as they perceive no threat, they will leave the wormhole open.

The ultimate power is perhaps a tad generous. Starfleet is hurt, just like everybody else. Perhaps moreso even, owing to the slow turnover of new Starfleet officers. However they have a clear political advantage over their immediate opponents, in the short term.

But given a few years? The Klingons and Cardassians will recover. The Breen are the least effected by their war losses and there are plenty of opportunists waiting to strike.

>And I think it looks better than the Intrepid.

I didn't used to think so, user. But on second blush... Yeah, I do.

>Even if she was never intended as a spy-ship, she has all the capabilities to fill in as one.

That is, I think, probably the best explanation for it.

> Rommies and Klinks: Get your damn spy ships away from the borders, you hypocrits!
> Starfleet Command: WTF? We have spy ships near the borders? INTEL! WHAT ARE YOU DOING!?
>> Starfleet Intel: WTF? We don't have any spy ships near the borders. Not THOSE borders, anyway. We're spying the shit out of the Breen, but not the Rommies and Klinks. SECTION 31?! WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!
>>> S31: Nothing! We're not doing anything to the Rommies and Klinks!
>>>> Starfleet Intel: We don't believe you!
>>>> Starfleet Intel grabs a bunch of S31 guys, interrogates the shit out of them.
>>>>> Starfleet Command: Intel! We're waiting for some answers!
>>>>>> Starfleet Intel: We have literally no idea what the hell they're talking about!
> Starfleet Command: We don't have any spy ships near the borders, what the hell are you talking about, Rommies, Klinks?!
>> Klinks corner a Nova-class inside the Federation, lock all weapons, and order the spy ship to GTFO now or die.
>>> Very startled Nova-class Warp 8.2s the fuck out of dodge, screaming for help with the Klinks hot-dogging her back into the UFP proper.
>>>> Enterprise shows up at Warp 9.9 to defuse a diplomatic incident before anybody does something anybody will regret.
>>>>> Starfleet Command: WTF? They considered THAT a spy ship!? Wow, those guys are bass-ackwards.

Nova a cute
CUTE!

>Honestly, I feel the DS9 fights could have been done a lot better if the fights had had the Federation starships being extremely outnumbered, and even their lightweight ships were accounting for several times their mass in enemies before going down.

Early DS9 subscribed to this somewhat, at least as a strategic philosophy for Starfleet. They sent the Odessy into the Gamma Quadrant alone because "who the duck could take on aGalaxy class on war footing?" was Starfleet's de facto stance.

When the Klingons attacked DS9 with a dickton of ships, Starfleet deemed fit to send a tas kforce of 6 ships to relieve them. A task force that include a Galaxy, 2 Excelsiors and a Miranda. And nobody reacted to that information like it was way too few ships. The general consensus was hope that they would arrive in time to provide support.

Because of the nature of exploration, any sufficiently advanced exploration ship can double as a spy vessel easily. That's basically what they do with pre-warp civilizations anyway.

Pretty sure I mentioned this last time this subject came up, but in Undiscovered Country the Excelsior was capable of determining that a giant fuck-off subspace shockwave originated specifically from a moon orbiting the capital planet of their current main enemy, and then getting a live visual feed of that moon, all in under a minute, and the Excelsior was just supposed to be cataloguing gaseous anomalies. Imagine what a fully kitted-out late-24th century exploration vessel would be capable of doing as a spy ship.

Yeah. I kind of miss that: Starfleet ships are basically the Space Marines of Trek combat - the FLUFF Marines. Virtually ANYONE ELSE has them heavily outnumbered; they have everyone else massively outclassed.

Even an older, smaller Starfleet ship - IE, a Miranda, or even an Akula - should be nothing at all to take lightly, even if you're in the likes of a Galor-class warship or a new B'rel-class bird of prey. Even a D'Deridex or Negh'var should want to take full use of every tactical advantage they can get if attacking a Miranda. A Galaxy should be "Okay, on paper we might win, MIGHT, if the stars align in our favor. Let's consider calling for backup, or going somewhere else today."

>Because of the nature of exploration, any sufficiently advanced exploration ship can double as a spy vessel easily.

That's actually a really good point of contention. The Federation is all about science. Science is life, science is love, science is what lets them pull wacky shennanigans out of their aft that defeat the Borg. They see science and knowledge as goals unto themselves, things that should be made free to all. For the UFP to suppress information, it has to be psychobad, like the operating principles behind the Genesis Effect.

To the RSE and the Klinks, knowledge is power: hide it well. So they get super-antsy when the Feddies are sending ships packed full of sensors that can get real-time feeds on shit light-years away near their borders. Meanwhile, the Feddies are using those ships to do planetary surveys and gaseous anomaly catalogues, and aren't even thinking about spying on the Rommies and Klinks, because that's not their assignment.

And yet, they are, in a way, spying on the Rommies and Klinks, because their ships are always gathering sensor data. It's WHAT THEY DO. They're just not actually EVALUATING it as strategic data.

> Rommie Stealth Recon Vessel Captain
>> Gnashes teeth
>> That Federation fucker has to KNOW we have an automated listening post here. He has to! Why else would he be scanning this planet so intently? How well is it hidden?!
>>> RSRV Subcaptain
>>> Very well hidden, sir. It's, uh... Cloaked. Behind several layers of sensor-defeating material. And in a canyon lined with minerals and materials that fuck with every sensor known to the Romulan Star Empire.
>> How sure are you that they can't find it?
>>> About... 80...88% Maybe. Fuck it, sir, it's the Federation, those bastards put spy sensors on everything, I don't have a goddamn clue. The sensor mast is retracted, though... But... I don't like our chances.
>> They'll get super butthurt if they find this on their side of the border. What if we send the self-destruction signal - what are the chances they'll detect THAT?
>>> About 90%. But we used basically all components we bought from the Ferengi. The only thing in that listening post that was ours was the cloaking device, and I am 200% certain that'll be vaporized beyond any recognition.

> Starfleet Sciences Officer
>> Oh man, there's a whole bunch of nifty avian life on this planet, I wanna go down there with a holorecorder and get some pictures to send my mate and offspring, and WOAH! What the fuck is that?
>>> Starfleet Captain
>>> Lt! Report!
>> Just got a high-energy reading from that messed up mineral canyon on the northwest continent, sir. Looked like some kind of... I dunno, disruption pulse.
>>> Well hell, send an away team. That sounds worth investigating.

> RSRV Captain
>> Yep, they saw it! Wait until we're opposite them in our orbit then Warp 9.9 the hell out of here!

Who is this semen demon? It looks like a civilian-ized D'deridex.

It's a Romulan science vessel created using reverse engineered Dyson Sphere tech. Starfleet and the Klingons have their own versions.

We do that already IRL. The US and UK in particular as the preeminent naval powers out of the past 200 years that still have the tech base to do so, will load up """""civilian research vessels""""" with more data gathering gear than you can shake a torpedo at, and occasionally loan them out to the spy agencies or military. This of course gives Russia, China, and North Korea massive ulcers. This maps directly to Trek. Starfleet is basically "what if NASA, NOAA, the CIA, and the Navy and Air Force were all the same organization?" but IN SPAAAAACE.

The incident where a pair of F-22s used a drone to lure out some Iranian F-4 Phantoms (yes, the plane older than TOS), sneak up behind them, and shout "OOGA BOOGA BOOGA" like the old man from Courage the Cowardly Dog is exactly how I see the Klingons and Romulans reacting to Starfleet exploration ships.
>doot dee doo, patrolling the Klingon borders and BoP BoP BoPin' along
>[massive sensor beam sweeps the ship, causes a static buildup in the females' hair, and reheats the captain's Raktajino]
>OH KAHLESS WHAT THE TARGSHIT JUST GAGHING HAPPENED WHY ISN'T THE CLOAK UP YOU BASTARDS
>It is up, sir.
>Wat.
>[plasma arcs all over the bridge and the ship decloaks]
>It WAS up, sir.
>[Lieutenant Commander Skippy in command of the nearby Nova class hails them.]
>Hi guys, sorry about that, we were scanning that asteroid over there for some fascinating Hepta-Beryllium formations and it looks like we goosed the power too high on the beam. Do you require assistance?
>[Klingon captain screams in fury and throws his raktajino at the viewscreen. His comms officer cuts the connection.]
>Get me the high council. They must be informed of these new spy beams immediately!

>[Lieutenant Commander Skippy in command of the nearby Nova class hails them.]

Oh god, they made that Magnificent Bastard an OFFICER? BWAHAHAHAAHAAAH!

I would love to see a Miranda-y version of that.

:^)

Heh. Not *exactly* what I had in mind...

But better than what I had in mind. So, so saved.

Here, in thanks, have a Youtube link to what I think is the flat-out best music to kick a race's own ass to from SCF2.

youtube.com/watch?v=26xoXRhxOXg

This is the soundtrack to a Miranda loaded with PhGs and Dro-Gs, escorted by two Akulas loaded with Dro-Gs, bearing down on a lone Interstellar Concordium dreadnought.

1x F-NEC
2x F-DDG+

My favorite single-high-value-target sucker-punch. 3x Scatterpacks with the ships riding in RIGHT behind the drones. When the first wave of missiles hit/are shot down, launch the second, and close in for the kill. By this point, the enemy's shields SHOULD have a hole in them, that's where the NEC's 4x PhGs - each of which is basically 4x Ph3s - comes in, at under 1 range. It's like unloading an LBX/AC-20 at point-blank range on someone whose armor is shrekt.

If they SURVIVE that salvo, they're probably going to be a burning wreck with no systems operable, that you can pick off at your leisure. This is the outcome you want, as if they DON'T survive, you're going to have eaten unnecessary damage from an enemy ship explodinating at point-blank range, but if that's what you gotta do, it's what you gotta do.

If they survived that IN FIGHTING CONDITION, you picked a fight way the hell out of your weight class, like with a starbase or an armed planet, and oh shit son, what you doing?

>we don't have to imagine, we can just look to the adventures of admiral (you)

SFC2 had bad music.

SFC and Ron Jones was where it is, and was, at.

youtube.com/watch?v=y7ti7S223v0

this would actually be pretty cool, but I don't think the galaxy class is well armed enough tho

I'd love to drive around deep space on one of these instead
memory-gamma.wikia.com/wiki/Excalibur_II_class

I know I know, they're not canon

>I don't think the galaxy class is well armed enough tho

youtube.com/watch?v=tJilKdc6RIA

but it wouldn't fare well against big swarms of smaller ships, and it would get fucked if they bumped into some strongish civilization while alone in deep space

That's pretty much what the Enterprise dealt with on a weekly basis though, some big evil ship that really just wants to be understood or wipe out all sentient life, either or. Her entire mission profile is based around being self sufficient for long periods of time. Hell, pretty much anything from a Connie up is capable of holding it's own in deep space.

As for a swarm of small ships, that seems to be a fairly rare strategy, however I can't see many other ships faring better on their own.

>As for a swarm of small ships, that seems to be a fairly rare strategy
Unless you're the Dominion.

USS Odyssey got rekt.

At that point in time, every ship in Starfleet was liable to the same weaponry. Dominion weapons could straight up ignore Starfleet shields. Didn't matter if it was a Miranda or a Galaxy, the ship was fucked from the get-go.

Most arguments of this nature will inevitably come down to "well why do we have any reason to suspect another ship, contemporaneous with the Galaxy class, would fare substantially better?"

gee, can't think of a single other starfleet ship that got fucked up by the dominion.

the defiant had a nice run before getting destroyed

It may be rare, but in these super deep space missions there is a greater than zero chance to find it, it it really sad that you could easily destroy a flagship just by taking a different approach to space warfare

The Defiant was also disabled and captured in her very first engagement with the Jem Hadar. The only real difference is that the Dominion felt like taking prisoners that day.

the funny thing is that we'll never know how the sovereign class fared against dominion ships

What WAS the enterprise doing for the entire war anyway?

Dunno, in the collected tails of grand admiral (you) (STO), it is said that it flew to Earth when the Breen were bombarding it.

BTW, did Federation ever glass Breen prime in retaliation for that?

there were another sovereign class starships, there wasn't any reason for them to not show up

I'd wager about as well as Starfleet's other heavy hitters at the end of the war. By then, Starfleet had fully overhauled their shielding and auxiliary systems. We see larger ships like the Galaxy, Excelsior and Nebula tanking shots that could and do fuck up smaller ships, like the Akira.

Starfleet were probably worried about sending out their shiny new flagship to potentially get dog-piled by Dominion ships. You can have the best shields in the world, but a Dominion attack ship plowing through your hull tends to only end one way.

No because It's federation philosophy that if you fight you enemies they win.

what I don't understand is that the registry numbers were in the 60,000s and there weren't even a quarter of that "available" at the war period

Fucking Trudeau doctrine...

Do you think they got the children who were there for no reason off the ships before sending them into the fight? Or is that too much like military thinking and therefore not something Star Fleet would do?

Probably assigned to rear guard. I remember reading somewhere that the Enterprise was at the Battle of Betazed.

How many Sovereigns are there anyway? We can infer that there are at least two - there would have to have been a USS Sovereign.

Presumably, though iirc kira needed to tell them to do that with the odessy.

There's no canon stuff for it. But in Bridge Commander, the Sovereign is only just being put into full service because she had been a test-bed for a shit-ton of new tech during the War.

according to memory alpha, only the enterprise is confirmed

but of course there is a uss sovereign, because there is always one ship named after her class