Warhammer Knights faction focus

>playing a narrative game
>my opponent takes a superheavy detachment of imperial knights
>24w t8 3+
>charge with fabius bile
>inflicts instant death, other knights die to battleshock

how's 8e working out for you

Wounds don't carry over between models.
So it'll do an average of 1.5 shots, and each shot does an average of 3.5 wounds. So 5.25 wounds to 1.5 models.

It's not the same if you don't post the picture.

d3 averages to 2.

Okay. 5 wounds to 2 models if the unit has under 5 models.

>Blast weapons look like they're going to be really underwhelming for killing clusters of infantry in 8th

Doesn't that mean most Titan level things are going to suck now?

I think most of them have main weapons that are blast weapons or come with many of them.

I also wonder what's going to happen to the Eldar pulsar weapon or the Ork foot of Gork spell given they both hit until you rolled poorly or everything under the blast marker was gone.

Knight shoots at Knight
2 shots a turn
4/3 hits a turn
8/9 succesful too-wound rolls
16/27 that aren't saved by then invun
(16/27)*(7/2)=2.07 wounds caused a turn

It takes the thermal "vehicle killer" knight an average of just 12 rounds of uninterrupted shooting at another knight to bring it down by firepower. Within half range it goes up to 2.765 wounds a turn, out of 24. Gallants are looking a lot better.

What's the best looking Knight Renegade you can likely build with the knowledge we have now then?

As I recall, they can double up on weapons that normal Imperial Knights cannot.

Thermal cannons are much better now. They were shit before. There's fuck all point in a big melta weapon that still only inflicts one hit.

Look at this.

Just look.

It's not IK only.

Prepare for 5 WK or some LoW Tau spam. gg no re

No shit, it's an anti-big-thing weapon. The gatling is for that sort of unit.

If 5 IK is okay, then 5 WK probably will be too.

They're overhauling everything, there's no reason to think WK will still be stupidly underpriced.

Wasn't the previous version of it single-shot small blast?

Is this the part where we pretend that you were ever getting more then one hit with a small blast template?

>There's fuck all point in a big melta weapon that still only inflicts one hit.

Was pretty good for dealing with parking lots wasn't it?

Wait, do blast weapons still hit automatically, but now have to roll how many small units they hit/how many hits for a single big unit they got?

Got a super-heavy? Now buy 2 more, you poorfag.

Assuming Heavy 12, S6, ap-1, damage 1, the avenger gatling does 2 wounds instead of 2.07 to knight stat things (and the ap-1, is the lowest an ap3 rending thing is going to have, same for damage 1) while being better at everything else. It's probably still the best.

There are no blast nor template weapons.

yes

>tfw 3 baneblades maybe will be viable

No.
What were template weapons now roll to see how many hits they get (or at least the flamer does)
What were blast weapons now roll to see how many shots they get, they still have to roll to see if they hit from that number of shots.

Can't wait for the stats and mostly the point cost of the Khorne Lord of Skulls. I unironically love that derpy model but never used him because of his retarded cost.

It was 1 large blast. The blast is smaller then frag grenades, even the Battlecannon at least became Heavy D6.

>they didn't nerf eldar since eons
>in Eldar faction focus there was no word about even seeing WK or jetbikes as OP units (while it was about riptides etc.)
>you still have hope

>24 wounds

So much for thinking a D20 will do as a wound counter...

Won't those still be in trouble vs 3 superheavy walkers of any kind that have a melee weapon?

That's always been one of the reasons super-heavy tanks aren't seen as much as super-heavy walkers on the table, aside from the fact that most super-heavy tanks are still forgeworld except those of the Militarum.

Deleting units of terminators.

Well all vehicles can charge and attack now, Baneblade class tanks might just have a melee weapon called crushing treads or something, no telling how effective they'll be compared to a reaper though.

Former high-STR blast weapons are in an awkward spot now. Since they can multi-hit single targets, they can't deal too many hits, or they'd completely blow away vehicles.

Stuff like the battle cannon will be an elite killer now, not an anti-horde tool.

This will do d6 shots with d6 damage and AP -4 against units of termies now though.

"a lot of Strength" exact number not revealed, but only hitting on a 5 or 6

damage is likely not going to exceed 2

Problem is i dont see how they will want to coutner MSU.

Right now if even biggest cannon can only affect one unit, you can just use smaller units.

I wonder how they do Deathstrike missle for example. A fucking nuke that can wipe out only one unit? meh.

Well like I said, I doubt they're going to be able to get into a stand up fight with an IK or a WK now, but at least they'll be able to fight back.

If the termies had more than one wound they were insta killed before, d6 damage is a downgrade. Getting an average of 2.33... hits is also poor compared to large blast.

It's like those submarine nukes you get in Fallout 4, which got barely any splash damage.

How will the Ork Belly Gun likely be then?

It's a Strength 7, AP3 Blast that had a 3D6 radius.

It gets d6 shots against 5+ sized units.

There's very likely a normal FOC with one LoW slot.

>Problem is i dont see how they will want to coutner MSU.

Vehicles can split fire, user. Battle canonn does D6 shots, which isn't bigger than a MSU unit to begin with, and the hull/sponson weapons can engage other targets. Most weapons rolling more than D6 will be aimed at taking down hordes, as they'll be lower-strength and lower-damage, so you wouldn't take them against MEQ MSU anyways.

Deathstrike will be a devastating vehicle killer. You need to revamp your expectations.

Didn't they show 3 different scale FOC without any Fortification or LoW choices? And Flyers and Dedicated Transports as their own choices.

Great, it gets one more hit on average against guardsmen.

>some LoW Tau spam
Yawn. Without Riptide Wing I don't see the big deal. I suppose they could cock up the points and make one of them too cheap, but that's what the ongoing points updates are for.

1.5 more
2 -> 3.5

Obviously the giant meltagun is not specialized for killing fodder. Pretty nice against termies though.

Not that it's a big endorsement of the idea, but don't three Stormsurges have enough anti-infantry, anti-vehicle and anti-air weapons to strike down a whole army on the table?

The overwhelming issue I had with Knights was lack of customization. If my ENTIRE ARMY only has 5 models, each of those models should be totally different with multiple pages of options to truly enhance the individual character of each knight. I know in the first iteration at least there weren't options. You just ran 5 copies of the same guy, outfitted the same, doing the same job. It was the most boring thing imaginable.

I said hits not shots. 1.5 shots hiiting on 3+ is 1 hit.

All I read was "Tau can now field five stormsurges"

Hard to say. They have a lot of guns, but remember they don't shoot twice anymore.

It's also possible that truly unique units like the Deathstrike could have a "hits all units within X of target model/spot" rule, although I'm doubtful.

>can make an army of SM, Primarines, IG, Inquisition and 5 Knights
>"Don't worry, guys, there's no formations, so it's totally ok!"

Well, I'm relieved.

Eh. I have trouble being sympathetic. You want variety? Make a War Convocation style combined arms list.

>no blasts
>make certain weapons inflict more hits if the target has x models

yeah, hitting on 4's

three's if they anchor

you should be, now those five knights don't hit on twos with a 3++

because no tau army ever takes markerlights right?

>24 wounds
Seems perfect for 4d6 as wound counters.

which now let you re-roll 1's to hit

Well fuck. Looks like I'm going to need another 2 shadowswords.

>We really need a Baneblade focus. What the hell do half those thanks even do now with the merging of the AP and cover systems and loss of templates?

what dose stacking them do now? like if a unit of pathfinders lights up a unit with 6 markerlight hits. can you only ever spend 1 to reroll 1's to hit now?

if i spend 2 do i reroll 1's and 2's?

i havent really been giving a fuck about 40k every since 6th ed. but 8th is starting to get my attention.

Just reminds me again of what we all said when those things first came out..

"At this point, why the hell would you not just play Epic?"

Epic's dead

>having multiple counters per model
>having D6s as counters

You're just asking for them to get mixed up.

AT is coming back. Soon ™

Nothing has been said about them stacking any more for the same thing. So you might get reroll 1s and still have points left to reduce cover if you want.

>Tau can field 5 Tau'nars

Seems plenty balanced to me.

only rerolling ones instead of BS boosting

so yeah, markerlights are worthless

Stacking probably does jack shit outside of letting you pick multiple effects.

Not worthless. It adds about +15% accuracy to a squad of firewarriors. 10 hits to 11.5 hits.

They said "wraith constructs will still be terrifying"

Something people seem to have missed

"Add in the inclusion of a 5+ invulnerable save against shooting – regardless of which direction the shots are fired from, thanks to their ion shield – and you’ve got a resoundingly resilient unit."

It's not bad, and with Split fire being the default is should be easy to spread those hits out, but I'm also expecting there will be a more costly option for full rerolls. Like 3 counters or something for a squad to essentially be twin-linked

There shouldn't be any way to directly boost BS with them though, since them they're just BS 10 all the time by boosting to 5 and then rerol ling 1s.

didn't the thermal cannon knight only deal 1 hull point, possibly negated completely by the shield in current edition?

>Epic's dead
It's still got pretty lively community maintenance. And plenty of 3rd party manufacturer support... which doesn't even matter that much if you want to play Knight households, because converting epic-scale knights from terminators is almost effortless.

That change is a little unwelcome. Having to spread the attacks out accross multiple arcs did actually add a little much needed depth to the game.

There are like 12 charts.

Scale's too small for my taste.

so trygons do D6 damage now.
if they still have 6 attacks they're going to be great big thing killers.

>Scale's too small for my taste.
For an infantry focused game? Sure, I get that. Regular 40K suits squad-level infantry skirmish just fine, no reason to change what works. But for playing a bunch of super-heavies? Or just general company-level action? Epic is fantastic for that.

Don't get me wrong, I totally get putting a knight in your admech army or whatever as a big centerpiece. It's an awesome model, works great for that. But the feel in 40K is still going to be "squad-level skirmish that happens to happen around the feet of a knight". For big-scale battle across a cityscape, my super-heavies vs. your super-heavies, rolling out whole tank companies or squadrons of fliers... I'll take Epic every day of the week.

This. Between eliminating Tank Shock, armor facings, neutering reserves, MSM mechanics, etc, it really feels like the game is being painfully dumbed down.

Blast and flamers are honestly the most mind boggling thing about this edition.
Though I guess Nid Hordes might have finally been thrown a bone since anti-horde has been wrecked. Nidzilla however is probably going to get shredded even worse than before now that blast weapons just drown them in wounds.

Not really. From what we've seen stuff like the battle and thermal cannon are only doing 1/2 average wounds per shot. If Tyranid MCs get double/triple wounds to match some of the other stuff, then they'll be pretty resilient to big guns, while also getting even more durability against small arms.

On a good hit, that Thermal Cannon can put 18 wounds on a single monster, the battle cannon is also capable of up to 18 wounds on a monster or vehicle. Meanwhile that Thermal Cannon's good hit will only remove 3 models. The battle cannon, 6. The Leman Russ we know has 12 wounds from the faction focus. Hordes are hugely more durable this edition against template weapons than single targets like monsters and tanks.

So, do you think Knights will be finally fine for pick up games ? They are talking about them either dominating or getting dominated the moment someone tailors the list for them, but talking about it not the same as fixing and I'm not sure if the current changes help.

If there's two things I love it's knights and mechs so those guys are a perfect combination for me but since they're were so hard to fit into regular play without always having to warn the other person and them consequently blasting them off due to it I never got around buying more.

>Nidzilla however is probably going to get shredded even worse than before now that blast weapons just drown them in wounds.
They dont really, though. With the change to the AP system most things that blew through a nid MC before are now giving them a 5+ armour save. Many weapons that were wounding them on 2+ now do so on a 3+ as well, and on top of that, they're getting a ton more Wounds.

Nids as a whole are looking a lot tougher so far.

>the battle cannon is also capable of up to 18 wounds on a monster or vehicle
In the same way that a single guardsmen is now capable of killing a knight given infinite turns to shoot, yeah.

>but talking about it not the same as fixing and I'm not sure if the current changes help.
I think it's fine just because of how they changed the scaling. A knight that's lost several wounds is not the threat it used to be, they go all the way down to 5+ to hit, at which point it's really gimped with its number of shots/attacks. As long as you bring anti-armor guns I think bringing it down to a weakened state shouldn't be too hard.

Honestly they look kind of weak, so we'll have to see how many points they cost.

>A knight that's lost several wounds is not the threat it used to be, they go all the way down to 5+ to hit
They need to lose 75% of their 24 fucking Wounds to reach that point. With an invuln save and Toughness 8. You're insane if you think that sounds weak.

>On a good hit, that Thermal Cannon can put 18 wounds on a single monster, the battle cannon is also capable of up to 18 wounds on a monster or vehicle

Currently 3 guardsmen within 12 of a riptide can kill it in a single round of shooting.

Thermal cannon gets the same number of shots as battlecannon against units with 5+ models so it's identical against hordes

I remain unimpressed with their offense. The volume is just not large enough. Who cares if it's still alive if it can't hurt you fast enough to stop you from taking objectives.