So how do you fit monks into different cultural archetypes beyond the typical...

Methnerd
Methnerd

So how do you fit monks into different cultural archetypes beyond the typical !asian cultures?

All urls found in this thread:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvkPLvoH1vI
http://ancientolympics.arts.kuleuven.be/eng/TC007cEN.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pankration
https://youtu.be/VYvqOfrs6CA
http://www.mythencyclopedia.com/Ca-Cr/Circe.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqlIUPBeoKo
http://berserk.wikia.com/wiki/Mozgus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMGWWpyFGFU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xL4SY1TJgQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YyBtMxZgQs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVm965-lHH8#t=2m
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0QCvQFiTQn7
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsadler
http://halruaa.wikia.com/wiki/House_Jordain
https://youtu.be/1muOeJ4fBps
kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Methnerd
I made a tribal warrior kensei who specializes in maul, blowgun and whip. He focueses on heavy damage with maul+flurry of blows, with the blowgun to apply poisons from range and the whip because I couldn't really think of anything else that might apply.

All a monk is is a spiritual warrior who focuses mainly on unarmed combat and "peasant" weapons. Every culture has these and, with archetypes, you can expand even further. So, to answer your question; use your imagination.

MPmaster
MPmaster

@Methnerd

Mine are basically Greco-Roman scholars and philosophers who are also pugalist because they believe in training the mind as well as the body.

They typically serve as tutors to wealthy sons and daughters looking to get into various positions within the Empire so it's not unusual that some Imperial official, though might work from a desk, could go toe to toe with some would be adventurer

iluvmen
iluvmen

There are unarmed fighting styles all over the world, OP.
Everyone--every culture, every place--had their own twist on "murder dude with hands."

For classic medieval fantasy style, you only need to describe it a bit differently:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvkPLvoH1vI

idontknow
idontknow

Flagellants

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@iluvmen

This is the thing I will never understand about the groupthink against being weeaboo. Any warrior would know how to fight in a number of ways whether it's stabbing a nigger with a sword or punching him to death. Wrestling, Boxing, and pugalisim isn't some exclusive trait of asia and having a knight who can brawl isn't going to make people think you love anime even though they are posting on a Tibetan Shadow Puppet board.

Inmate
Inmate

@Dreamworx
Basically this. People imagine kung fu and shit when you say "martial arts" but "martial arts" also includes chivalric jousting and swordsmanship and cane-dueling and boxing.

"Martial arts" just means "the arts of martial combat," not "shanghai hong kong egg fu yong fortune cookie always wrong"

That shit's gotta stop, because a disarmed knight punching a dude in the face with his plate mail glove is fucking awesome.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Inmate

This is an example that comes out of 40k but I think my most memorable scene was in the Gaunt's Ghost book when one of the Tanith commanders was in brawl with a commander from another IG regiment (can't remember names, sorry) they talked about how one of the commanders was a champion boxer during his academy days and how the Tanith Dude was a fucking wrestler.

But hey, can't ruin the idea that western warriors of any sort or even modern day soldiers and fighters would sully their reputation by learning silly things like how to punch and kick and throw people.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@VisualMaster
Shit, that's fucking cool. And let's not forget about pankration, the ancient Greek art of weaponized gay sex: http://ancientolympics.arts.kuleuven.be/eng/TC007cEN.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pankration

Honestly, I really wish more people would go "yeah this guy used to box" about characters who use guns in fiction. It's a nice trait to be well-rounded as a person.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@iluvmen

I blame DND for this because they made "punching" the eclusive realm of the monk but then they also made the whole perfection of body and mind thing exclusive to monks as well.

Frankly, there's no good reason why a fighter can't go from tearing assholes with his sword and when it breaks he throws it away and contines to redecorate colons with his fists if need be.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@Lord_Tryzalot
D&D is also under the opinion that people like Cu Chulainn are anime characters and that any fighter who can do anything remarkable like turn into some kind of thrashing wolf-beast in a spasm of fury and murder a small army is unrealistic and bad.

I fucking love bare-knuckle brawler character concepts. The movie Snatch stands out here. If you haven't seen it, go watch it, it's great.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Supergrass
Cu Chulainn IS an anime character thanks to Fate.

Methnerd
Methnerd

@Supergrass
@Boy_vs_Girl
Cu Chulainn was pretty anime before anime was

super powered evil side
Fight autist
harem protagonist

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Methnerd

Don't forget Beowulf. What sort of weabo faggot wrestles a monster to death?

FastChef
FastChef

@Methnerd
like so

MPmaster
MPmaster

@Methnerd
I usually have it in my !Asia regions but also in areas controled by the churches of light where weapons aren't allowed to be used for religious reasons but still needed to defend themselves so learning how to fight with their hands came naturally.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Methnerd
@TurtleCat
And Odysseus. How could a single FIGHTER beat a whole ARMY with a lel so epic strategy about a wooden horse, were the Trojans just retarded? So inconsistent. And that's not even talking about how his muh waifu purity resisted all those hot women throwing themselves out him.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@Methnerd
the problem of course is that Monks, at least in D&D, function off of the conceit of a mystic inner power that doesn't quite entirely work. Some editions have tried to make them psionics to mixed success. In my opinion, as a core class, Monks should be able to derive their abilities from everything from persistant training and expertise, to divine power, to magic. Just turned inwards to make them superhuman.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

Monks are more snowflakes than Gunslingers.

Evilember
Evilember

@Bidwell
Don't forget the Bow that only he could string and draw

farquit
farquit

@Methnerd
/fit/ based Monks
Former farmer who learned to defend his own land
Survivalist "Law of the Jungle" type that thinks Druids are wimps
Ex-slaves who learned to kill with their hands since it was all they had
Foppish honor-obsessed monks who willingly fight at a "disadvantage"

Skullbone
Skullbone

@TreeEater
@TreeEater

Imagine how vastly different the entire game would be if they didn't shoehorn the eastern window dressing with Ki. I mean, even in 5th edition they strait up say what the monk does is just another form of magic the same as wizards. If you just call it something that doesn't immediately trigger westaboos into autistic spasms then the idea of a knight who's so badass he can cut magical creatures because of his inner power instead of some magic sword the faggot wizard had to make for him (which he could still use, but still).

@Evilember
That said, his servent, who was a badass himself it seems, came really fucking close to doing it.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@farquit
Ex-slaves who learned to kill with their hands since it was all they had
Well this is legitimately the origin of at least one martial art, Capoeira, which was developed to look like dancing so they could practice without anyone realizing they were training. Once masters got wise they outlawed it.

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Skullbone
My favorite monk was a monk of Azuth who tattooed magical runes and spells to his body, and travelled to various locales strong with ambient magical energy or ley intersections to draw power into them. Training his body was just a way to make himself vigorous to withstand the ju-ju he was pulling in.

He also completely disregarded bitches and wanted to become one with the weave itself.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Emberburn
But now it's a weeaboo thing thanks to Death Note

Nojokur
Nojokur

@AwesomeTucker

Desire to know more intensifies

I didn't realize this was a thing in Death Note.

viagrandad
viagrandad

LUCHA
LIBRE

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Nojokur
L (the detective teenager) uses it when he fights. Which is very rare because that would take time away from everybody trying to outplan each other

Techpill
Techpill

@AwesomeTucker
Capoeira was also in Tenjo Tenge

Doesn't make it weeb.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@Methnerd
So how do you fit monks into different cultural archetypes beyond the typical !asian cultures?

Knights who train in mystical arts.

Guardsman order under special training against supernatural beings.

It's the role of the monks in society that's important.
Since they are based on martial artists their role is going to have to do with military, security forces, espionage etc..

Where are their arts taught?

In not!Greece it's at the temple squares.
In not!Rome it's the Arena and most Gladiators are monks.
In not!Renaissance Italy it's Church monasteries and private merecenary companies.
In not!MezoAmerica it's warrior clans out hunting for human sacrifices and slaves.
In not!Russia it's roaming martial artists gifted by god or the communist party depending on the time period. Bonus points for Putin refferences.
In the not!Wild West it's roaming Cowboys and Chink immigrants.
In not!England it's every noble and their butler.
In not!India it's a few of the REAL gurus.
In not!Arabia it's the local organisation of thieves.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@FastChef
Christian monks used to have a martial tradition as well.
Many were required to know how to fight with a staff, mace or barehanded.

idontknow
idontknow

@Methnerd
Ah that Nen Master fanart. Brings back memories.

JunkTop
JunkTop

@Methnerd
I just combine Buddhist monk with Western monastic monks. They do the things monastic orders did like copying books, brewing beer and wine but also training their bodies and minds to have a closer relationship with their God, Immortal, Devil Patron. What have you. Most traveling proselytizers are Monks ranging from levels 1 to 3 in my games.

Nojokur
Nojokur

ANGRY PUNCHING MEN

Illusionz
Illusionz

@JunkTop
Like so - https://youtu.be/VYvqOfrs6CA

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Methnerd

the pugilist is i think by now the classic approach to having the western version of a monk.

Inmate
Inmate

@Inmate
a disarmed knight punching a dude in the face with his plate mail glove is fucking awesome.
hexen's fighter had that, even if it was basically just doom's brass knuckles

hexen was pretty fuckin sweet

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

don't fluff your world's monks as weeaboo filth. I play a tetori monk in PF which equates to grapple monk. he's a pirate whose only claim to being "lawful" is he is perfecting the art of wrestling in hopes to one day emulate is childhood hero/ demi god LOS TIBURON SHARK OF THE LAND MASKED WRESTLER (yes I shamelessly copied it from the story about it. other than that very piratey, ie impulsive, stubborn, a general greedy whoremonger. note the DM is being very slack with the alignment system as I skirt it at almost all points in time. in my own world monks range from stereotypical monks all the way to a wide range of non standard concepts.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@Inmate

GURPS martial arts covers this pretty well. Knight training covers armed and unarmed combat, and grappling.

@Spamalot

The line between militant chivalric orders and monastic orders was very blurry. Many people that took a monk's vows were in fact knights, and the monastic vows and virtues were a large part of the chivlric ideal.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Methnerd
T H I C C monk girls
I knew I wanted this, I had just forgotten it.

Methshot
Methshot

@Methnerd
Three words for you:
Zatoichi
Blind Fury

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

I once had a Norse Inspired monk

Dudes name was Gideon which in Hebrew translates to hewer sorta. He was a lumberjack who wrastled bears, drank good mead, loved to tussle, but was comfy in his cabin and didn't want no trable

Shit was cash

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

Simple, drunken boxer.

DeathDog
DeathDog

fnen a shit

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@Methnerd
Same calculators fit in our society

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@DeathDog
yeah, everyone knows f launcher was the best

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Methnerd
Couple of questions
What part of "monks"? the martial art one? martial arts aren't an Asian only thing. The zen mentality, searching for mind and body perfection? discipline isn't an Asian only thing

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

Basically, OP, the point everyone is trying to make is that limiting monks to asian kung fu is like limiting barbarians to specific fringe tribes.
Pigeonholing classes because they have an evocative name is a failure of creativity, so don't do it.

farquit
farquit

@LuckyDusty

Weeaboo filth

A lesser concern of mine then people who fear anything vaguely asian at all.

askme
askme

@Methnerd
I always make them the Thomas Covenant Bloodguard in everything but name.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Bidwell
Uh, what? He has 3 children with Circe
http://www.mythencyclopedia.com/Ca-Cr/Circe.html

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Methnerd
ywn never play a monk grizzled by hard labour
ywn never suprise the party with your insight to writing, architecture and winemaking
ywn never have to fight hand in hand with marauders from beyond the sea
ywn never take part in clerical intrigue and uncover corrupt clergymen

R. A. Salvatore's Demon Wars Saga is pretty good inspiration for monks, even if they lean more on wizardry

5mileys
5mileys

@StonedTime

Well considering 5th edition monks literally are muscle wizards ( just not very good ones) it's more than possible.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@LuckyDusty
The idea that monks have to be lawful is fucking retarded anyways

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Methnerd

Monks don't even have to be religious in nature. you could have them just have a moral code rooted in belief in the potential of humanity.

you could play a taxi driver who majored in Philosophy in College and took parkour as a way to keep in shape as a Monk.

a professional kickboxer who gives their fight money to charity/orphanages could be a Monk.

even a bookstore owner who enjoys trading stories/books/scrolls from faraway lands and learns poems and self-defense from their acquired trove.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@AwesomeTucker
Thanks to Death Note

Nigger, nippies have had their hands on everything, every fucking thing, since before Takeshi Obata picked up a crayon.

But just because nips borrow shit from everywhere, does not mean that something is Weeaboo.

Are you going to argue that boxing, capoeira, and savate are weeaboo since we have Hajime no Ipo and Hitmonlee/champ/top?

Is Mike Tyson weeaboo since he has a pokemon named after him, and was in an ip man film?

w8t4u
w8t4u

@StonedTime
Read up on the Golden Monk.
A chatolic monk who went full 007 during and after WW2.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@5mileys
Have to dump str
Deal laughable damage
Meh CA and HPs not suitable for a frontliner
Muscle wizard
Pffffhahahahahaha

w8t4u
w8t4u

@LuckyDusty
weeaboo filth
you are worse than the people you are condemning

TechHater
TechHater

just make monks buddhist ikko ikki priests or christian philosophers instead of the wuxia tier fist fighters they are initially portrayed as

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@hairygrape
Man it would be so satisfying to ruin someone's day with a BIG WHORE

Soft_member
Soft_member

I like to do D&D monks as, culturally, completely standard western christian monks to fit with the overall medieval theme. They spend their days getting up early and brewing beer and copying manuscripts interspersed with a lot of prayer and maybe singing hymns in four part harmony.

But at the same time they're ready to mobilize at any moment as the army of the lord and by god's grace and careful practice are prepared to storm a fortress and take out armored knights while armed with nothing better than sticks.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

Having them as wrestlers could be fun.
in peacetime, the order likes to let citizens see their ritualized fights
a fair amount of them are skilled in perform and charisma
tfw you see not!Shakespeare becoming a rising star by written word and wrassling

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

Like this

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Soft_member
This. My monks are literate, copying manuscripts, working with the clergy. I shift the weapons from asian to more western in flavor. Club, light mace, the like,

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

I considered using "Ascetic alchemists whose bodies become stronger and stronger as they punch more and more magical things and get their blood on their skin".

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Methnerd
Western wrestler franciscan-style monks.

A monastic order of wrestlers, they're all extremely buff and they drink fucktons of wine.

See this skull right here? Squeezed a bandit's head so hard with my leg lock that it just popped out.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@eGremlin
A monastic order of wrestlers, they're all extremely buff and they drink fucktons of wine.

A whole Monastery of Kevin Nash's

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@FastChef

While it makes perfect sense, the panel 4-5 spot makes me laugh.
Got your gun!
Shooting you in the ass now

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@Inmate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqlIUPBeoKo I have no idea if the game is good or not.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Methnerd
House rule, Improved Unarmed Strike is a free class feat for any class with full base attack bonus.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@iluvmen
@Dreamworx
@Inmate
If we're talking about the D&D monk class, it's a lot more than just "unarmed fighter" in terms of game mechanics.
Not every high-level unarmed fighter can teleport, for example.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Methnerd
Give them staves, go full friar tuck.

Bidwell
Bidwell

Just use the Christian ascetic tradition more often
Stylites, for example, were hardcore

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@AwesomeTucker
I only know it because of Archer and Armstrong

Snarelure
Snarelure

@5mileys
@Crazy_Nice
Figher's should get to be muscle wizards

It just isn't fair.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Methnerd
So how do you fit bards and druids into different cultural archetypes beyond the typical !celtic cultures?
So how do you fit paladins into different cultural archetypes beyond the typical !carolingian cultures?
So how do you fit barbarians into different cultural archetypes beyond the typical not-!greek cultures?
So how do you fit clerics into different cultural archetypes beyond the typical !abrahamic cultures?
Why aren't there threads like these?

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@StonedTime
Source for the image?

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@Flameblow
Because most people can find a way to get around those on their own, and those influences aren't explicitly encouraged by the splatbook

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Dreamworx
clerics aren't influenced by abrahamic religion
druids aren't influenced by celtic culture
paladins aren't influenced by medieval chivalry
Yeah, sure.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@Inmate

I too enjoy the Siamese cat in the Aristocats.

girlDog
girlDog

@Methnerd
Pugilist. A general experienced fighter. Doesn't matter the specific fluff of the style they use, just that the end results are increasingly efficient as their skill level increases. Sure on one hand there's an increase in damage output, but that's also what weapons are for. The key is being well versed enough as a fighter to be familiar with and identify attacks in time to avoid them with marginally more effectiveness than your run of the mill NPC, and to exploit openings to gain extra attack opportunities, either as combos or extra reflexive strikes. You can be a wushu master, a karate black belt, a grecoroman wrestler, a bar brawler, or a feral wildman, but the bottomline effectiveness is all the same.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@BlogWobbles
Father Mozgus from the Conviction arc of Berserk.
http://berserk.wikia.com/wiki/Mozgus

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Carnalpleasure
he hasn't read ye olde fencing manuals
nothin personnel kids

cum2soon
cum2soon

@girlDog
Tell me why a pugilist would eventually end up immune to poison and aging.

TechHater
TechHater

@Snarelure
Stop playing D&D.

Start playing Burning Wheel, Song of Swords, or Mutants and Masterminds.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@Methnerd
She's cute. Are there a lot of female "monks"?

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@eGremlin
The Bible states "Thou Shallt not Kill", so I just rough up my enemies until they're in wheelchairs

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Flameblow
Because this board operates on a strict western/eastern cultural split and some people really don't like any mention of eastern culture in their games. You don't see people saying "none of that greek shit at my table"

Nojokur
Nojokur

@VisualMaster
Wasn't there a guy in the Bible who got into a wrestling match with an angel and got made a saint because God was so impressed by his wrestling skills?

likme
likme

@Nojokur
Israel is named after that guy.
I think it was in a dream though

Firespawn
Firespawn

@Methnerd
I make them Benedictine-style Monks who have a tradition of martial discipline due to being commonly in monasteries away from help and needing to be responsible for their own self-defence.

massdebater
massdebater

@Nojokur
@Nojokur
Jacob I believe

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@Methnerd
She's cute. Are there very many female monks? I mean I guess Sororitas count, but I can't think of many others.

@Illusionz
That movie was nuts.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@Snarelure
and was in an Ip Man film?
That was a great scene.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

Played in a old West campaign as a dapper gentleman who knew barritsu.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@cum2soon
He is too manly to be struck down by weak tricks like poison, and he cannot die until he is defeated fairly.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@Nojokur
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMGWWpyFGFU

God is such a jobber

Emberburn
Emberburn

@iluvmen
As a man masters himself, so too does he master his destiny.
He's thrown down the gauntlet to Fate itself, daring it to kill him in honorable single combat.

whereismyname
whereismyname

Just a guy who has Goldie and Rogan commentating his every action. Somehow, this makes him competent at fighting.

farquit
farquit

@Dreamworx
@Inmate
@iluvmen
Nobody's that only one culture invented unarmed martial arts. The issue with D&D monks is the conceit that unarmed martial arts is just as good as armed martial arts when both options are equally available. That conceit purely belongs to Chinese pop culture.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

Corporal punishment addicted teacher/priest/cleric

"Education and knowledge reside in my knucles, and I'm gonna make sure my students get some through their thick skulls"

WebTool
WebTool

@Nojokur
Androgynous angel boy gets full-nelsoned
Jacob was truly ahead of his time.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@farquit

In a fantasy setting where you can gain the ability to resist aging and become a native outsider through your own efforts and fight all manner of supernatural beings and travel to different dimensions
Must abide by the idea that a sword is better than a fist

It's cancer like you that keeps insisting DnD be some kind of Medievel European simulator rather than a pulp fantasy setting that it actually is.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@Inmate
As a coach the whole "west has no true martial arts" bullehit pisses me off so much. We have a pugilist and wrestling history that goes back to the Bronze Age, probably earlier.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@Methnerd
Thoros of Myr
Muhammad, Ali Ibn Abi Talib, etc
Jeanne of Arc
Altair
NG Solomon Kane
Gabriel Belmont
Neo

JunkTop
JunkTop

@farquit
Are you retarded and this deluded?

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@MPmaster
Mine are basically Greco-Roman scholars and philosophers who are also pugalist because they believe in training the mind as well as the body.
I like this.

@MPmaster
weapons aren't allowed to be used for religious reasons but still needed to defend themselves so learning how to fight with their hands came naturally.
THANK YOU.
Making a spear costs less and takes less time than training to fight without weapons, so anyone would go for that except if they had a reason not to. This actually determines a lot of things
I hate seeing characters learn how to fight with their fist when they could use weapons.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Nojokur
That was Jacob. The fight lasted 3 days and ended with Jacob pinning the angel. The angel begged and begged to be let go but Jacob refused to do so until the angel gave him a blessing for all his trouble. And so the angel gave him the name Israel which means "wrestles with God". The Jews would later take this as the name for their people and it would turn out to be an extremely appropriate name over the years.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Need_TLC
The fact that having a sword is better than just having a fist transcends culture and geography. A sword is better than a fist in China, too.

takes2long
takes2long

@VisualMaster
So for the purposes of a fantasy role playiing game. Why should I adhere to the logic that swords are better than fists when I want to make a class about being an unarmed badass who can deflect arrows with his hands or punch boulders in half?

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@takes2long
Because that mighty hero would be even better at deflecting arrows with a shield or splitting a boulder with a pickaxe.

Tools were invented for a reason, user. It's not just a cosmetic choice.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@Soft_member
Western monks would be far more likely to chant in unison. If there was any harmony at all, it would be very simple. You wouldn't be seeing four part hymns until at least the 17th century.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Nojokur
lel

@w8t4u
will do, thanks

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@Dreamworx
Once again. You are operating on the premise that weapons have to be inherently better than bare hands in a fictional setting. A guy who has trained his inner energy or honed his body to a granite finish through years of punching trees can forge their body into a weapon equal to that of steel.

Why try and make it so that fists are just weaker by default? A monk is a philosophical fighter, preferring to use their fists. Let them have their fun.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@Flameblow
All of those things are in Europe.

Monks are China/Japan in flavor, which is just a teeny bit away from the rest of the classes' real-life cultural basis.

Inmate
Inmate

@Raving_Cute
Cleric
How are those guys monks?
Paladin
Rogue
Another Rogue, or a DEX fighter
Fighter
Knows Kung Fu and other eastern martial arts.

girlDog
girlDog

not being a marauding river pirate who takes up the cloth in sanctuary under pain of death
not seeing the light and devoting your soul utterly to G*d
not kicking the shit out of armed bandits with your bare hands and converting them, too
not kicking the shit out of your fellow monks with your bare words and humbling them, too

Y'all niggas even Desert Fathers?

RavySnake
RavySnake

@girlDog
not kicking the shit out of armed bandits with your bare hands and converting them, too
That's hilarious. I actually want to play a character like this now. Imagine this guy being a passenger on a ship when suddenly a pirate sail appears on the horizon.
"Bring us closer! I want to teach them about the love and mercy of Christ... WITH MY FISTS"

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Sir_Gallonhead
A guy who has trained his inner energy or honed his body to a granite finish through years of punching trees can forge their body into a weapon equal to that of stee
takes years to achieve same result
equal
maybe in strength, not in anything else. No one would bother developping such an art when forging a spear is faster and safer
UNLESS they have a very good reason to.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@Methnerd

By dropping the 'monastic order' bit and just making them super strong motherfuckers in the vein of Beowulf.

enemy commander has a right hand man who dressed in adamantine fullplate so heavy most people can't even carry it.
he carries no sword, his armor just has two massive gauntlets that he uses to bludgeon people to death at close range
Thankfully, his armor slows him down so he isn't that fast
when you fight him for the inevitable boss fight, your attacks are constantly describes as just utterly failing to get through his armor and hurt him... until you finally do
having judged you to be worthy opponents, he rips off the armor mid fight and fights you basically naked
he's actually stronger without the armor weighing him down, and much faster

Booteefool
Booteefool

@RavySnake
>"Bring us closer! I want to teach them about the love and mercy of Christ... WITH MY FISTS"

Judo christians

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Nojokur
He didn't wear the armor to protect him from you
He wore the armor to protect you from him

massdebater
massdebater

@Booteefool
Are we bringing back Muscular Christianity?

TechHater
TechHater

@Nojokur
@Soft_member

Sounds familiar, can't put my finger on it though.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@TalkBomber
No one would bother developping such an art when forging a spear is faster and safer
And yet there are real life martial arts that have thousand year histories devoted to studying animal movements and replicating them in human form.

Your imagination is lacking if all you can see is weapon superiority in a setting where those rules don't have to be absolute. Of course using a spear is easier, but then you have that one guy who devoted his whole life to grappling bears and standing under waterfalls.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@TalkBomber

Here's your (you) good job trolling by the way

@TechHater
@Soft_member
@Nojokur
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xL4SY1TJgQ

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Nojokur

Goku had that as a gimmick before transformations became a thing.

Playboyize
Playboyize

@Supergrass

.... And being the defender of Russia's skies?

Nojokur
Nojokur

@Supergrass
And yet there are real life martial arts that have thousand year histories devoted to studying animal movements and replicating them in human form.
the users of which would be utterly destroyed by a bunch of untrained retards with spears and bows
Look I'm not saying people who grapple bears and do that meditation thing under waterfalls aren't strong. But a single arrow is enough to break that body the spent so many years honing and training.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YyBtMxZgQs

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Nojokur
Are we using hollywood films as arguments now?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVm965-lHH8#t=2m

SniperWish
SniperWish

Monks were a mistake, a more general Martial Artist class would have been perfect to cover different varieties of unarmed combat. Ki bullshit could be easily covered with a feat tree or two, likewise for specialization in wrestling, kickboxing, ect.

The same is true for Rangers, Barbarians, Druids,and every other class that covers so few different character concepts.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@SniperWish
If a class should be so broad and ill-defines, what's the point of using classes at all?
Might as well play Gurps or Amber Diceless while you're at it

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Sir_Gallonhead
Even a fictional setting needs some internal logic. If tools don't do anything in a particular world, they should not exist in that world.

Methnerd
Methnerd

@Crazy_Nice

No one said they didn't. Not everyone in the setting can smash mountains with their barehands the same way not everyone can cut the moon in half with their sword.

You're either so autistic that it's warping reality or you are trolling.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@whereismyname
Classes can still be useful for covering general character archetypes. I just don't like when there are incredibly specialized classes like Monk or Ranger that can only fit a half dozen character concepts.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Burnblaze
it is

RavySnake
RavySnake

@MPmaster
Literally stealing this. Hope you don't mind

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@Methnerd
That guy who has trained himself to have incredible strength would still be better with a weapon than without one. Simple leverage.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@Dreamworx
What if he is the weapon?

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Inmate

Huehuehue, day's a hot one.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Deadlyinx
He's strong enough to fuck someone up when he punches them. Nobody's arguing that. But regardless of how strong he is, leverage would make him effectively stronger, not to mention increasing his reach. How do you not get that?

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Methnerd

By being self-believing or disciplining (depending on the evil/good axis) Nietzcheans in a world where belief does actually create magic (see:clerics), and thus are able to do supernatural things but only in relation to themselves.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@Lunatick
But user he was developed to BE the leverage. He is the ultimate weapon in and of himself, tacking another weapon onto him would only dilute his purity of weapon.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Deadlyinx
@lostmypassword
Ultimately, no matter what you do, some strong dude with a weapon is more effective than some strong dude without weapons.
@Lunatick
's point is attached, since you guys seem to have trouble with it.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@SniperWish
But it's a strong dude who IS a weapon.
Giving him another weapon is like trying to use a dire-flail, it sounds cool on paper but it's counter-productive.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@SniperWish
some strong dude with a weapon is more effective than some strong dude without weapons.
Let me just append "in the real world" to the end of every sentence you write from here on out, since you seem to have trouble distinguishing from reality and fantasy.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@kizzmybutt
Not them, but a lot of people on this board are legitimately cannot into anything Asian, and are uncomfortable doing it besides.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@PurpleCharger
But it's a strong dude who IS a weapon.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@GoogleCat
Suspension of belief only goes so far, you know? I can do it for dragons, I can do it for a guy getting a couple lucky hits in on the dragon, but I can't get by a dude punching said dragon and being equally effective.

Get what I mean?

Spamalot
Spamalot

Do people in this thread not understand that the whole point of a Monk class is to create a martial class that has limited weapons proficiencies that can perform just as well as say a fighter or a paladin class that has a wider range of weapons to draw on? Who cares of a strong guy with the sword is better than a guy without a sword, the whole point is to be a guy who's fists are sharp as blades and as tough as a mace. Somebody has got to be trolling in this discussion here.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@Lunatick

No, because I don't speak autism

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Lunatick
I can do it for dragons, I can do it for a guy getting a couple lucky hits in on the dragon

How can you?
How is a tiny ant poking a dragon with a thumbtack anymore believable than a tiny ant punching the dragon?
That's ridiculous, they're both equally stupid.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Lunatick
I get that you have some autistic bias against punchmasters. The whole reason monks are a thing is because they aren't just Mike Tyson, they're Mike Tyson with a strong enough spirit to evoke mystical, unnatural power.

Which is why I made @cum2soon
, by the way. @iluvmen
works well enough as alt-fluff, far as I'm concerned.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Lunatick
A high-level monk is basically an outsider to a god. Can you grok this now?

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Bidwell
B-but gods need leverage or they'll have difficulty applying work to mass

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Methnerd
Depends. What specific problem(s) are you experiencing / trying to avoid?

FastChef
FastChef

@BinaryMan
IIRC it's some weird conceptual thing where he literally counts as a sword rather than a human. He has all the abilities of "the world's best sword", like being able to cut through anything by touching it, so fighting with a normal weapon would just make him weaker.

SniperGod
SniperGod

So how would you convert a training sequence like this into a !Eastern context? Guy just goes into the woods and keeps training his body past the upper limits for a decade and comes down better than any fighter before him.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@SniperGod
Fuck me forgot my pic

JunkTop
JunkTop

@Methnerd

Monks are like clerics, but they don't give a shit about gods.Well, they don't think they're worth worshipping that much - they might respect them dearly but they don't think they're close to nirvana and generally think being too poweful is a bad idea.

They actually ARE about illumination, and yes, illumination doesn't come just from the mind, the body or the soul. Neither just from passive compassion.

A monk would say to a wizard that if he thinks a book is truth, he would've become a pen already. To a cleric, that if gods would be truth, gods would be false. To a paladin, that if justice needs to be chosen, he can't be just - do you choose yourself? To a druid, that if you don't have a form, you are a form. To a sorcerer/witch, that if power is blood, he should bleed it out of his veins - if he can't, that's no power at all.

To a bard, to stop checking out his/her bum, but that's a lesson for another day, disciple.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@BinaryMan

Netero

My nigga

Even if you don't include the obvious allusions to Buddhism you can just have a guy who goes into the woods and goes "I'm not leaving until I achieve perfection."

A would be knight who goes into the woods, comes out in rags and tatters and is undefeated in all forms of combat both armed and unarmed. Point being, he pushed his body and mind to a level most people could never comprehend and achieved power.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Methnerd
I'm playing a frog monk in my next campaign and I'm having trouble thinking of backstories. The setting is big city not-france so I was thinking of playing up the outsider angle but I'm open to suggestions.

Any good monk backstory ideas?

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@iluvmen

How are frogmen in your setting? Common?

farquit
farquit

@CouchChiller
DM's still working on the setting but no, just isolated tribes.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@iluvmen
The setting is big city not-france
frog
This was the first thing that went through my mind when reading your post. http://vocaroo.com/i/s0QCvQFiTQn7

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@iluvmen
If he were a turtle monk instead, I'd suggest some kind of mutation.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@SniperGod
@BinaryMan
It already is !Eastern.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@farquit

Well, you have the usual shit. Isolated village of hated minority, a career in which he can break his shackles, yadda yadda.

Where do frogmen live? In real world france the biggest marshes are on the Rhone, so... I dunno? Make him a boasting guy from not!Marseille that tries to stay cool like he should? A gypsy-like tribe travelling along the river delta?

I realize this sounds /pol/ bait but southeastern France is a little like the West of France

and didn't catch the frog/France thing. Have his pal with which he has a love/hate relationship be a bulldog with a english accent

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@PurpleCharger
Have his pal with which he has a love/hate relationship be a bulldog with a english accent
best idea

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Nude_Bikergirl
@Nude_Bikergirl

I wanted that to be a german but honestly dunno what is the german animal stereotype.

No, it's not the german sheperd.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@Nude_Bikergirl

Wait, if this is 1700s France the REAL pal should be a bald eagle.

I think that shit was crystallized as a symbol the 1800s but who care

askme
askme

The monk class being "weboo" only realy came about in third eddition when they got flurry a blows. Before then in TSR days it was a weird priest thief hybrid DPS glass cannon.

They may been trying to Friar tuck from Robin Hood but I'm not sure what if any design intent they had behind it if at all. So you've got more of a blank slate to use than you think.

Personally I like them being Psions like in 4e. It's only because that never really fit in the game either so might as well combine them.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@askme
The monk class being "weboo" only realy came about in third eddition when they got flurry a blows.

They'd had Quivering Palm in their very first iteration for Blackmoor, and the weaboory was further made explicit when they were revamped for Oriental Adventures

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Methnerd
I had a guy play a monk-esque class who was a circus boxer who would fight anything thrown in the ring with him for a bet. Eventually punched out:
-A werewolf
-A Dire Crocodile
-Seven Undead At Once
-The Royal Wizard (it was a fair and honorable fight, even if the wizard was a cheating bastard of a transmutationist).

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@StrangeWizard
Quivering Palm in their very first iteration

Yeah not the iconically Weboo furry of blows.

Quivering Palm isn't weeboo. Fist of Norstar haven't been released yet so it doesn't count.

Inmate
Inmate

A prominent noble's youngest son has been used as a diplomatic bargaining chip since childhood, having been held hostage to secure alliances, non-aggression pacts et cetera
Due to this, he ended up becoming a polyglot and a fine diplomat upon adulthood
Diplomacy is risky business, yet it's not exactly polite to show up armed to the death when you try to come across as friendly and desiring peace
As such he's been assigned a bodyguard: a plucky tomboy who prefers to fight unarmed
She keeps the prince safe from ambushes, traps and betrayal
But who keeps him safe from her?
Tags: femdom, defloration, muscular female, leglock, nakadashi, handholding

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Methnerd
I can't help but always picture monks as Friar Tuck types that are surprisingly effective despite their demure/rotund appearance.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Skullbone

I don't get this obession with friar tuck allusions. I mean i get it because he's a "monk" and it's good way to make weeaboos pissy (hell even the fucking art in Elderscrolls has a friar tuck looking dude for the unarmed skill)

Firespawn
Firespawn

@StrangeWizard
I think it's just a cultural association with European monastic visuals, Friar Tuck being the most iconic/recognizable character to fit such a schema.

Like, it's easier to say "he looks like friar tuck" than to say "he's an overweight white guy in a hooded brown robe tied with a rope, sandals, and a haircut that's bald on top and has a ring of hair around the back like a cul-de-sac ala Hulk Hogan but with more volume."

Booteefool
Booteefool

@Firespawn
Like, it's easier to say "he looks like friar tuck" than to say "he's an overweight white guy in a hooded brown robe tied with a rope, sandals, and a haircut that's bald on top and has a ring of hair around the back like a cul-de-sac ala Hulk Hogan but with more volume."
What about "He's a portly looking man who's built like a bear, wears a very simple robe and sports a tonsure"?

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@Booteefool
Well, yeah, but then I don't get to be a longwinded schmuck and reference the Hulkster.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@BunnyJinx
Quivering Palm isn't weeboo.

Quivering Palm, Death Touch, Dim Mak et cetera had been a kung fu meme in America since the '60s ya dingus, some gossip rags even unironically posited that Bruce Lee had died to one.

Techpill
Techpill

@Bidwell
not that user but kung fu isn't weeaboo. you don't know what weeaboo means.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Techpill
Oh, fuck off. You can't go photoshoping Weeaboo Fightan Magic onto kung fu inspired supplements and then in the next breath tell me kung fu isn't weeaboo.
We all know the term has devolved and broaded far beyond the original wapanese wordfilter many years ago.

Inmate
Inmate

@BunnyJinx
It still amuses me that I used this exact setup for a PC before I knew this character existed.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@Methnerd

Ancient Greek athlete?

They invented hardcore training.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@eGremlin
wow, nobody else thinks Monks don't have to be affiliated with religion?

the lack of imagination is -staggering-.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@AwesomeTucker
But monks don't have to be associated with religion. Hell monks don't even have to be associated with monks.

Methshot
Methshot

@iluvmen

Something I realize is when you watch kung fu movies it's not even that every character is an example of a "monk" only that unarmed fighting and fighting with weapons goes hand and hand is not weird in the same way westabos consider that knights or whatever never had to punch a dude out when their sword wasn't handy

Methshot
Methshot

@Methshot
Something I realize is when you watch kung fu movies it's not even that every character is an example of a "monk" only that unarmed fighting and fighting with weapons goes hand and hand

Hell even the monk class got unrestricted weapon proficiencies for the most part.

Well apart from 3rd where they won't even proficient in unarmed strikes.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Booteefool
Because it's possible to fit that description and not look like friar tuck. Tuck is an iconic look.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@WebTool
I thought that fugging cute bois was against the rules?

Evilember
Evilember

4e Monk was best Monk. High mobile NADs striker. They had a clear niche in the game which they lack other edditions.

It was a little odd that they were psionic but it's was fairly close to Ki anyway.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Carnalpleasure
That's Father Nelson'd, different move entirely.

5mileys
5mileys

@Raving_Cute
Martial Arts were really popular in England up until the 20th century. Every large town had fencing halls, target ranges, etc.

farquit
farquit

@kizzmybutt
Sausage dog.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@kizzmybutt
The iron eagle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsadler

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Methnerd
http://halruaa.wikia.com/wiki/House_Jordain

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@Methnerd
I like the idea of a monk character based on a Western monk, more of a jolly drunken scholar sort of character. Bonus points if he's also really good at fistfighting.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@Inmate
I want this.

RumChicken
RumChicken

Slavic Monks focused on decapitation.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@iluvmen
...do you have Battletoads?

Spamalot
Spamalot

@Flameblow
i think people know a lot less about Europe then you give them credit for
and beyond that i think way less people then you think actually put a lot of medieval Europe inspired stuff into d&d games
i for instance have almost never thought of druids as celtic nor bards
i dont know who the Carolingian are (forgive me for being uncultured swine) but if they have anything to do with typically christian crusaders of old you got me that is what i relate paladins to
Barbarians as not greek? nah never came across
clerics as abrahamics? i can see where you would get that and i think we base a lot of the worship parts off of the abrhamic religions but nah d&d has its own gods

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@AwesomeTucker

Aren't they by default going with an order and shit?

I can't really see a pugilist as a monk. I mean, it is a decent enough concept, akin to a gladiator, but it's a different.

Anyway I still can' really see the deal with monks being "unwestern".

Druids (as we play them) aren't, sorcerers (as opposed to wizards) aren't. Ok, they're... hrm, generic concepts (the heremit, they guy with magic in his blood) but they're not really "western classes" like the paladin or the barbarian.

And amusingly enough catholic monks doing shit in their monasteries, being literate and all. are already in DND. They're the wizards and their academies.

btw, I'm not sure where the concept of a wizard academy came from. Surely it precedes by decades Potter, but in the hyborian age there wasn't anything like that

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Crazy_Nice

Similarly you could or should ask where the split between sorcerers and wizards came from especially since sorcerers don't really live up to the innate magic users because grandma spread her legs for gold dragon dick.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Skullbone

Actually, it's not a stupid question.

When did DND sorcers appear?

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@Crazy_Nice
Druids are about as far west as you get, buddy. As for how we play them being different from how they were I'm pretty sure nobody knows.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@BunnyJinx

But that is the point. Druids in DND are basically a name - it would be like saying paladins/knights are samurais.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@Methnerd
In my setting, they're called Juggernauts.

Mana is used by all classes- Swordmasters use it to empower their strikes, Rogues use it to cast illusions and teleport, Mages and Clerics we all know, and Juggernauts use it to push their body beyond its limits.

The Lore is that there was a knight who was captured and tortured, didn't break, so they caught his lover and burned her in front of him. He went insane with rage, and swore an oath to the God of Revenge that he would kill everyone responsible with his bare hands. GoR heard his vow and decided to help him with that. Forty fist-holes in chests later, the first Juggernaut was born.

I tried to avoid the "dragonball z" kamehameha bullshit. A Juggernaut can focus their energy to punch someone- repeatedly- from a distance, but the gigantic fireballs are magus territory.

In keeping with the origin, they do have an ability called "They Will Pay" which allows you a damage bonus to an enemy who killed an ally- provided that kill wasn't due to deliberate negligence on yours or the ally's part.

Their restrictions are a strict diet and training regimen to make sure their manaflow works properly.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@LuckyDusty
thats pretty gay

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@Crazy_Nice
Wizard academies are easy to figure out. You start with the idea that magic users have to learn it by studying. There are three common ways that people learn. You learn by doing, which is established as a no-no because it's too complicated. You learn one on one in an apprentice relationship, or you learn in a classroom. And since it's established as a very complicated field of study, the classrooms have to be advanced, which means college equivalent or higher. And colleges have been around for a long time, so one dedicated to such a field isn't much of a stretch.
If you want to give people more credit than that, there's the Scholomance, which is the traditional place to learn magic, straight from Big L himself.

JunkTop
JunkTop

@Crazy_Nice
I would think wizard academies started with the idea of alchemist circles.

@King_Martha
D&D Sorcerers appeared at the ass end of 2e as a way for wizards to innately learn spells without the DM picking and choosing which scrolls the wizard finds throughout their career, since otherwise it was an optional rule for Wizards to learn spells through leveling up.
3e took the concept and ran with it, and as a result they became wizards who naturally learn spells instead of having to find scrolls. Unfortunately, wizards also got that variant rule baked into their class by default with the change over to 3e, so it became a moot point.

Prior to the actual invention of the sorcerer class, I think the closest we got was FR referring to mages with innate links to magic, gaining powers either through blood or divine providence, and either not needing to or not being able to learn from books. Greenwood would later go on record saying if the sorc existed back in the early days of D&D there would be far more sorcs than wizards in the FR, which fits given how few places there are to actually learn wizardry/magic in the realms despite the high concentration of magic users.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@PackManBrainlure

No, I meant who was the first to have the idea.

idontknow
idontknow

@JunkTop

Would make sense, but I don't know where in fantasy the magical college started (instead of secret master-apprentices duos).

I'm thinking of the Bene Gesserit oddly enough (not really wizards but you get my point).

Thanks for the info about sorcerers, I basically dunno shit about ADND.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@5mileys
England used to have the largest Fencing scene until recently when they decided to ban butter-knives...

I'm somewhat glad i got to grow up in eastern Europe and don't have to deal with that shit.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@PackManBrainlure
Huh? Fencing and HEMA are still big here.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@Evilember

Psionic shit already slapped halos on everyone, so whatever.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@ZeroReborn
And so its the typicality of Dungeons and Dragons.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@ZeroReborn
Barbarian exists entirely to play Conan or Fafhrd
Thief exists entirely to play Grey Mouser
Ranger exists entirely to play Aragorn
Monk exists entirely to play David Carradine

The classes exist entirely because one of Gygax's friends said to him that they want to play a specific character from a thing they just read.
The only exception is Fighting Man, because that was a disposable mook unit from their tactical games.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Supergrass

Not the guy you were responding to but now that we have the benefit of time personally I feel that the big three: Fighting Man, Thief, and Wizard would be enough. The other classes are essentially drawn out feats stretched to be classes.

Imagine how easy it could be if you just have fighting man and say you want to have some berserking skill so you take a class feat that basically gives your rage.

There are other ways it could be done but I think it serves to help make more customizable characters then pre-packaged classes. It's not like they were anymore balanced.

farquit
farquit

@LuckyDusty
. I play a tetori monk in PF which equates to grapple monk. he's a pirate whose only claim to being "lawful" is he is perfecting the art of wrestling in hopes to one day emulate is childhood hero/ demi god LOS TIBURON SHARK OF THE LAND MASKED WRESTLER (yes I shamelessly copied it)

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Methnerd
Monk is simply a term for all those guys who live in monasteries and their roles and functions in societies depend on the cultures they grew and evolved in.

Some are healers and religious guys who can exorcise evil spirits and worse as good as the local clerics or inquisitors. Others are smiths and metallurgists who can make wargear that is both practical and awesomely looking. And there are some that are scholars/philosophers and etc.

And then there are those who simply like to live out their lives in isolation and etc.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@kizzmybutt
user in the context of D&D character classes, Monk is very explicitly a kung fu kicking Shaolin Monk.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

Arabic monks could be breddy easy actually. Just base them off Sufis and other smol esoteric sects, maybe even Sikhs.

Speaking of Sikhs, Indians already have enough monk-tastic goodness.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

The important thing that needs to be reminded is that monks don't have to be always unarmed. It's not like they are incapable of using weapons but they can also use the powers they develop with weapons as well.

The dude from Thunderbolt Fantasy comes to mind. He has a fucking stick he painted silver and just casually rips and tears through mooks.

However, suggest even slightly it seems that unarmed and armed combat can co-exist in the same setting and people loose their fucking minds.

Evilember
Evilember

Is there a way to do a Strength monk and not have shit AC, and still have the best movement speed in the game?

Methnerd
Methnerd

@Sharpcharm
The dude from Thunderbolt Fantasy comes to mind. He has a fucking stick he painted silver and just casually rips and tears through mooks.
Still the best moment of the series and there are a lot of great moments.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

What about a Sailor who lost his ship from pirates, but got picked up by another, and on the year journey home the a monk taught him about how the ocean basically acts as Ki and how to harness it?

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@Sharpcharm
@Methnerd

I loved the whole running thing with everybody going 'stop saying you crossed the wastelands, you can just tell me you're a moron instead', and then their collective 'oh shit' moment when the bulb connects about how crazy good he must be if he actually did cross it to get there and be a bum.

Playboyize
Playboyize

@Methnerd
Wasn't this show on Toonami a few years ago? I remember there was some puppet show on Toonami back when it used to air on Cartoon Network and show Naruto reruns.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Playboyize

It just came out like last year I think.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Carnalpleasure
Ah, must've been another Japanese puppet show thing.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Lord_Tryzalot
How about how they commented on how his swordsmanship was weird and he uses too much force. Only to realize that he is literally forcing a stick through enchanted stone.

@Playboyize
You're thinking of Wu-lin warriors which is also by the same studio.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@VisualMaster
You're thinking of Wu-lin warriors which is also by the same studio.
Okay, that explains it then. I knew it looked familiar but at the time I didn't really watch it because, well, I was young and the puppetry didn't interest me.

Are they good shows?

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Evilember
Unless you roll amazing stats, lol no.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Fried_Sushi

Dunno about Wu-lin, but Thunderbolt Fantasy I enjoyed watching. I think part of it was the spectacle of the performance and everything; at certain points my brain was going 'this is by the numbers shounen anime, and if it was animated I wouldn't be watching it', but at the same time there's scattered lines and moments that I thoroughly enjoyed.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Fried_Sushi
Wu lin warriors is a very bad adaptation. Like, turning characters into surfers when they are supposed to be shoulin monks bad.

Thunderbolt Fantasy is amazing and you need to watch it with as few spoilers as possible. Here's the first scene of the show, if this doesn't sell you I don't know what will.
https://youtu.be/1muOeJ4fBps

Emberburn
Emberburn

@VisualMaster

Ah yeah, I'd forgotten that part. I also thought it was funny in that whole reveal scene. "Sir, I've got your sword? But it's a stick?" "Ah fuck it, I've got another stick"

MPmaster
MPmaster

@Fried_Sushi
Thunderbolt is written by notorious author Gen Urobutcher

Playboyize
Playboyize

@LuckyDusty
What does the God of Revenge get from allowing that?

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@PackManBrainlure

Then why the hell would anyone use weapons or armour?

If a single man can train his skin to be as tough as you say along with hands that can rend steel like paper, why ever bother making weapons for serious armies when they can just train them for a pittance?

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@StrangeWizard
when they can just train them for a pittance?
It takes years of dedication to achieve the mental state and chi balance to create skin of stone and hands of steel.

It takes a couple of months at most to train foot soldiers in basic formations and proper spear usage. And historically speaking it was done in weeks and sometimes days.

massdebater
massdebater

@Evilember
Dump wis for con and muti class into Barbarian?

At least you'll get more hit points.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@Boy_vs_Girl
@Boy_vs_Girl
the big three: Fighting Man, Thief, and Wizard would be enough. The other classes are essentially drawn out feats stretched to be class

AD&D spell it out as a Big Four: Warrior, Rogue, Wizard and Priest. Those were the games "metaclasses".

The reason is in my mind the main reason why monks sucks and don't work in DnD.

It isn't becuase monks clash with DND's implied PseudoEuropean setting but with DND's class design. They fill the roll of either Rouge, Warrior, Wizard or Priest.

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