What exactly happened to dwarves in the nineties?

Clearly they discovered Veeky Forums. Good for them, nice quads.

Compared to what, LotR, or pig orcs?

Can't speak for the other guy, but I said nothing about manlets. I'm not trying to go there. I'm just saying that the producers of media in later periods felt the need to make dwarves appear more heroic and capable. Quite frankly if we look at things like Humans will BTFO dwarves every single time, and anyone with half a brain can tell that at first glance. They made the dwarves much stockier to compensate, because by giving them massive shoulders and arms they implied a greater than human strength which made them appear viable.

What do LotR orcs look like anyway?

We wanna go by book or by movies?

>They made the dwarves much stockier to compensate, because by giving them massive shoulders and arms they implied a greater than human strength which made them appear viable.
Is Popeye a dwarf?

Sharp teeth, black skin, nasty hair. This is at least one short description I can remember. They are also supposed to be smaller and weaker than humans.

If he is that's one tall dwarf.

>What do LotR orcs look like anyway?

Factory workers.

Short, bow-legged, gangly-limbed, with small beady eyes and grimy, oily skin.

i was pretty much on that line as well.
In order to differentiate them from half-lings they made them stocky as shite.

They resemble the most crude imaginings of the mongoloid, according to Tolkien himself. They're bandy-legged, ugly, filthy, short, and have sharp teeth.

> orcs are literally a mongoloid horde
really joggin my noggin

See They're not the foreign horde, they're the worst qualities of the Industrial Revolution setting out to destroy all that is good and pure in the world, aka the forest-shadowed legends of Anglo-Saxon England.

So much for "duh orcs are a raciss vision of negroes" I guess.

>they're the worst qualities of the Industrial Revolution setting out to destroy all that is good and pure in the world
I feel like Tolkien would consider Mordor to have won conclusively in the real world, at this point.

Movie Gimli too, though that was earlyv 2000s and capitalising on what came before

Gimli codified the idea of drunk quasi Scottish dwarves with axes, later media took that and ran with it while adding on demented shoulders.

Tolkien despised industrialization as he witnessed first hand what a truly mechanized war can do to Humanity.

Tolkien was a sensitive man. He was a writer and linguist, someone who took great pride in learning the old Anglo-Saxon epics and undoubtedly spent long hours ruminating over the beautiful imagery of green forests and golden pasture, where men wore gleaming armor and songs were played by silver harp to crowds around large fires. That was what Tolkien saw as good, but what did he see in his world? Smoke rising from great brick towers against gray, dreary skies that spat acid rain on fierce, miserable faces that scuttled like rodents to work or beer, where a bit of green was luxury or worse, a thing to be plowed and overturned. Tolkien hated that. Tolkien despised that. He saw the sooty faces of factory workers and saw Orcs. He saw people carving into green hillsides and saw Isengard.

He went to war and saw firsthand how *efficient* the world had become at killing people, and that horrified him. He wanted to dream of a world that was in his stories, where the Brandywine feeds gently into the Shire, which was by all accounts his vision of an idyllic pastoral countryside; the people weren't hippies living in trees, but they certainly weren't Sharky ripping up the ground for smeary stones that belched death into the air.

If you want a vision of Tolkien's mind in the book, take a look at Faramir, who was effectively Tolkien's self-insert besides Beren. He was a sensitive man forced into war and discovered he hated the taste. He was like Eowyn in that, and when the pair met in the House of Healing they found themselves in love... And what did Faramir, and Eowyn wish to do? Become healers, to give up the sword and live in nature.

Tolkien couldn't ask for anything more.

3rd edition D&D changed them from just short to same mass as humans with a smaller height.

The change was happening before that. 3rd edition D&D 2000) shifted to the wide dwarves before Fellowship of the Rings in 2001.

I prefer the stocky dwarfs, I tend to portray them as a truly inhuman race. I try to exaggerate their Dwarf traits beyond even what the DnD books describe. Their physiology is different, their bodies are incredibly dense and heavy, their blood is magnetic, their skin is dry and dusty. They can endure savage environments with hardly any discomforts. I think their minds should be different too, they are patient and and perfectionist, with unshakable convictions and grudges, and a dwarf wouldn't dream of making something that wasn't perfectly master crafted. Their culture reflects this stoic solidarity, they harbor deep traditions but also deep resentments.

That way they are not just small humans, they are more fantastical.

Nature is still there and London's industrialization reversed into a service economy like most industrialized nations.
If he was alive he'd see Mordor in the Third World. Hell, if he went to China right now he'd essentially see Britain's conditions but somehow worse, while Britain essentially moved away from that.

>Nature is still there and London's industrialization reversed into a service economy like most industrialized nations.

Yeah, instead he'd see England's worship of the self and London being 40% white.

Dwarves have ADHD, and forging or battle is their hyperfocus.
Elves and half-elves have NPD.
Orcs and half-orcs have ASPD.
Tieflings have BPD.
Halflings have downs.
Gnomes are psychotic.
Dragonborn/Lizard people have lizard brains.
Humans have all of the above.

That's a different beast though.

To be fair, Anglo-Saxon ideals tend towards self-aggrandizement and mixing blood with foreigners in order to create peace.

Tolkien could well be fine with what you describe.

Widescreen became more popular, so they had to adjust their aspect ratio.

so Tolkien was a romantic?

Absolutely, in many ways he was a man born 200 years too late, though our culture is all the better for him because he created modern fantasy as we know it today.

He gave us a modern vessel for the values and stories of old, essentially?

Exactly, he turned what used to be the realm of fairy tales, folklore and old dusty tomes and made it a modern topic worthy of discussion and dissection. A story like The Hobbit, a tale of dragons and dwarves, had become something a father could read to their children beside the fireplace, rather than a short blurb of oral tradition told by a wizened old hag or an epic you'd be translating in University.

I don't know much about Tolkien's writings beyond the LotR but what you describe reminds me a lot of what John Carey described in his book about romanticism and the hatred that late 19th - early 20th century English intellectuals felt for the industrial world and the masses. The Shire is essentially a fantasized version of pre-industrial England.

>overcompensation
How is this "over", retards? Why would I want to play an exceptionally short character if he isn't hilariously thick and strong? It's not "overcompensation", it's "compensation". Autists.

There comes a point when the aesthetic has been exaggerated beyond reason. Over and above what should have been. When they are as wide as they are tall I think they've hit that point.

I think the black skin is for the strongest orcs. The most degenerate ones were even weaker, but also paler.

Quad doubles for ultimate truth and beautifully written. How inspiring to find writing and understanding of this caliber on this awful hellhole of a site.

10/10 would buy you a jar of ale at the Green Dragon.

It was the 90s, OP. Everyone was roiding up.

Gains.

that was a great read, thanks user

t. a student majoring in british literature

They also got taller.

That was a nice read.

Thanks user.

Pig orcs were a shitty translation of dnd in japanese.

You worship something arbitrary as your skin color, yet think it's not self worship?

They got better. No one wants to play David the Gnome

Err, the UK still has horrid air quality and polution. Certainly the worst of West Europe. Wouldn't be surprised if it is on par or worse than fucking East Europe.

Thank you.

Suqishem the boy is cute.

>Certainly the worst of West Europe
Who's ass did you pull this bullshit from?

Britain is in the top 10 lowest in Europe for urban air pollution, and easily beats Germany, Italy and Belgium, to name but a few. Eastern Europe is far far worse, with Bosnia-Herz approaching China levels of awful

apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/255336/1/9789241565486-eng.pdf?ua=1
That's a WHO report from this year, just [ctrl+f] "air pollution", the tables start around 12 or 13

Nigga what? There is no industry in the UK to spit out pollution and most of our power plants are gas

The anglos saxon ideal is individuality among community something common in many European circles but quite rare beyond

>2017
>Expecting anyone to care about facts and evidence

Well apparently they went to the gym and got swole.

Brehs, that's just some Euro asshurt that he's going to lose our giant money spigot in a few years. He doesn't really care about the truth, he just hates the British.

>giant money spigot
>Hey guys, we let this stock trade here, which could be a massive gold mine, go pretty much unregulated because we want to keep the piddly secondary profits from it to finance pajeets raping our children

DISCONNECTED
Enjoy your three euros of annual national profit from salami sales, Esteban.

kek
delusional britcucks are hilarious.

>all the better
>generic fantasy bullshit that killed off all concepts of fantasy as being the fantastical

thank you!

No one's shifting their businesses, indeed Deutsche Bank signed a long lease for their largest office. In London. bigger than any other office they own and with more staff.

Surely thinking your skin colour makes you better is worship of self?

>55019108
u wot.

Tolkien literally killed fantasy though.

THICC

Here's your (You)

Thanks, I'll cherish it.

booooo

Damn it user.

Moorcockfags have entered the thread. Better just ignore them

All those feels, man. I never asked for this.
Also those doubles...

>doubts the giant flow of bongdollars
Hey fagmachine (or should that be El Fagmaquín?), the UK is the second biggest net contributor to the EU after Germany, DESPITE the rebate. There's no question that's why the Rump 27 are pissy, the loss of the sweet sweet cash for the French to fuck away on nothingprojects. That and this stymies Poland and Romania's colonization plan.

>beyond reason

The stockiness of dwarves is exactly for a reason. They can't be the immensely strong warriors - much stronger than humans on average, as they're often portrayed - if they're not packing those muscles and dense bones. Dwarves with their short stature couldn't be - not convincingly so - naturally strong, without being as they've been made out in the last 20 years.

The lithe dwarves of the past are silly, and kinda cute. But modern dwarves, while short, weigh more than you and can rip the spine off your back with their bare hands. If they're so strong, they better fucking look like it too. And that's what has been done because it's the only way for it to make sense.

These guys looked fine if you painted them right.

Let's talk about what really matters: The Fellowship and I believe also the Hobbit feature coffee in the Shire. Where does it come from? I assume it would have to be Harad, considering the climate, but the Haradrim are pretty solidly opposed to the free peoples.

>55
>00
>44
>55
The quad dubs speaks truth, nice story user.

I would argue for narrative "drift". We don't have books that definitively say what really happened, for a given value of really happened since it is after all fiction; we have the story that a bunch of hobbits wrote and god knows how many people have edited throughout the ages, culminating in Tolkien himself "translating" it into English.

My guess is that Shire anachronisms (of which coffee is only one of them), are just that, anachronisms, and that Bilbo didn't "really" drink coffee, any more than he knew what a locomotive was or what gunpowder smelled like.

>checked
sounds like a faggot.

You sure about that?

I always figured that was to make them distinct from halflings and gnomes.

t. manlet

>But modern dwarves, while short, weigh more than you and can rip the spine off your back with their bare hands.
They're effectively as strong as men retard.

What's funny is the Silmarillion describes the dwarves as strong, hardy, resistant to fire and evil, as well as the greatest warriors in Middle-earth.

Know-it-all fags itt don't realize dwarves were never intended to be skinny.

Nope. Most material outright has dwarves being stronger.

>the greatest warriors in Middle-earth.
I thought that was elves in the Silmarillion? Or do they count as external?

>as well as the greatest warriors in Middle-earth.
The earlier stuff in the sentence is right, but this part? Hell no. I mean fuck, those dwarves that steal the Nauglamir/Silmaril get beaten up by a bunch of pansy Ossiriand elves. The dwarves never produce figures like a Beren or a Turin, let alone someone like Fingolfin.

They have their moment in the fifth battle, but that's about it for Silmarillion dwarvish valor. They're implied to be substantially weaker than men, let alone elves.

>No one wants to play David the Gnome

>poster implies he wouldn't want to play a short person that isn't ridiculously strong to compensate for his literal shortcoming
>LE MANLET XDXDXDXDXDXDXD
Do you put any thought into this at all? How low is your IQ? Did you just want to use a stale meme? A "manlet" wouldn't want to acknowledge a very short height without a compesnation as a negative aspect, you fucking retard.

I'm just repeating what's in the Silmarillion. Go read it again. FYI, Beren would've been killed by a dwarf king if the dwarf didn't trip over a root.

t. manlet

>I'm just repeating what's in the Silmarillion
No, you're editorializing. Here's what it actually says

>Last of all the eastern force to stand firm were the Dwarves of Belegost, and thus they won renown. For the Naugrim withstood fire more hardily than either Elves or Men, and it was their custom moreover to wear great masks in battle hideous to look upon; and those stood them in good stead against the dragons. And but for them Glaurung and his brood would have withered all that was left of the Noldor. But the Naugrrim made a circle about him when he assailed them, and even his mighty armour was not full proof against the blows of their great axes; and when in his rage Glaurung turned and strck down Azaghal, Lord of Belegost, and crawled over him, with his last stroke Azaghal drove a knife into his belly, and so wounded him that he fled the field, and the beasts of Angband in dismay followed after him. Then the Dwarves raised up the body of Azaghal and bore it away; and with slow steps they walked behind singing a dirvge in deep voices, as it were a funeral pomp in their country, and gave heed no more to their foes; and none dared to stay them.
There is nothing in there that says they were the greatest warriors in Middle-Earth, just that they were resistant to fire. It's not even the first time Glaurung was driven away, Fingon does the same feat.

>FYI, Beren would've been killed by a dwarf king if the dwarf didn't trip over a root.
FYI, if you're counting the later Beren and Luthien poems as canon, Beren fucking beats up Sauron, which again puts him way better not only than individual dwarves, but probably the entire fucking dwarven race.

They got into an suprise attack by ents.

Not part of the sil. There its just been "a couple of elves and the ents laid a trap a fucked them up."
I love the Tolkien dorfs but let's not add stuff please.

Dorfs are still based as fuck. When everyone shat their garments because of the first dragons the dorfs did not. Instead they kept formation a their armor withstood the flames. Only did they fall back once their king got crushed under Glaurung. As they carried him off the field nothing dared to stand in their way.
In a time when Balorgs were leading armies that's quite the feat.

>They got into an suprise attack by ents.
Not in the latest version, the "Extract from the lost tale of the Nauglafring"