ITT: Wrong Opinions

Skullbone
Skullbone

my system is better because it doesn't have classes

All urls found in this thread:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/usingSkills.htm
https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/2/is-a-fumble-on-a-natural-1-an-official-rule
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/bellCurveRolls.htm
http://anydice.com/program/ca5f
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/bellCurveRolls.htm
Illusionz
Illusionz

@Skullbone
The system isn't bad because you can homebrew it!

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Skullbone

Age of Sigmar is good!
40k fluff has always been bad!

Techpill
Techpill

@Boy_vs_Girl
40k fluff has always been bad!
But I will admit, it gets tiresome after a while. the excessively brutal and over-the-top weapons and armor of the setting is always a fun addition

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Skullbone
5E is a versatile system
5E is a bad system because it isn't versatile
Realism is bad

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Skullbone
DnD is a good game as long as you play (insert number)th Edition here

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Gigastrength
OSR and 4E are fine

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@Sharpcharm
3.5 is objectively the only playable edition.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@lostmypassword
lolno

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Skullbone
>opinions are wrong if I disagree with them

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@lostmypassword
I unironically like 3.PF more than 5E but I can't help but fell your baiting

JunkTop
JunkTop

D&D is the perfect system for an Game of Thrones'like intrigue game.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@AwesomeTucker
It;s kind of obvious the wrong is hyperbole for "opinions I really hate"

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Lunatick
@Sharpcharm
Jesus Christ I need to proof read
It's kind of obvious that wrong is hyperbole for "opinions I really hate" in this case

likme
likme

@Skullbone
D&D is bad!!!
GURPS is good!!!
Point buy is good!!!
Anima is easy!!!
40k lore is teenager trash!!!
Pathfinder is bad!!!

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

DnD is a good role-playing game.
Rules are more important than fun.
"fun" is a buzzword.
Alignments are not shit.
Learning new systems is hard.
DnD is friendly for new players.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@lostmypassword
These contradict each other

WebTool
WebTool

@likme
But user, this are good opinions

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Emberburn
And they are both trips of truth. How will we know which is which?

whereismyname
whereismyname

@Illusionz
the engine is fundamentally flawed because they painted the car the wrong colour

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

PF is not 3.5 improved in every single way
D&D is not a war game
Women can be good players too
Shadowrun/Vampires are good solid games
Futuristic D&D can be fun
Realism is bad
MtG is not a p2w game, it has skill
Starwars TRPGS are good (or Starwars at all)

TreeEater
TreeEater

@Illusionz

This.

Sure sign of retards, seriously.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@whereismyname
but user, 3.PF is fucked up at it's core, so your metaphor doesn't work

SniperWish
SniperWish

Orc double axes are legitimate weapons.

Yes, I had someone say something like this to me. Big weeb.

Jackie Chan can do it in this movie, why shouldn't my character?

(Because it's out of tone with the rest of what we're doing, you jackass.) This was about using a steel ladder as an improvised weapon to prove he should be able to use something similarly dumb as an improvised weapon. I don't even remember what weapon we were bitching about, just that he used a scene from a very silly Jackie Chan movie to support his opinion.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@haveahappyday
Nah I get you.

I know people who unironically think their opinions are factually better than others just because they have them, though. You gotta put your foot down about that sort.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@lostmypassword
These aren't bad opinions
MtG is not a p2w game, it has skill
D&D is not a war game
Women can be good players too

Illusionz
Illusionz

@Flameblow
d20+mod>target number is fucked up at its core
please explain

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Illusionz
that casters completely ignore that

King_Martha
King_Martha

@VisualMaster
But I have my opinions because they are the right ones to have, not the other way around.

Methshot
Methshot

I never had a good game with 3.PF, so I don't feel like playing that

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Illusionz
The biggest problem is not what the game does but what it doesn't , at that point your basically playing role assisted free-form and you could do that with pretty much any game

Skullbone
Skullbone

@SniperWish
Good post, your opinion is indeed wrong.

TechHater
TechHater

@lostmypassword
Perfect post for the Wrong Opinions thread.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

characters becoming essentialy living legends, maybe gods at the end game of the campaign is shit
You know, you could use these characters that became legends or gods as npcs in another campaign based in the same world.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@Evil_kitten
I don't mind crazy power progression but I would like it to occur at a reasonable pace

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@Burnblaze
sure it would be in a long campaign, where you would "puff i am a god", it would be slow and steady as you get more experience and magical itens.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@whereismyname
I could homebrew a combat system for RaHoWa but that doesn't mean it isn't bad as is. That game has broken crunch and is bad because of it.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Gigastrength
Depends what you are hoping to do user.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Illusionz
For me it is that d20 is super swingy, among other things. Also, a lot of people use it incorrectly because it is easy to do so. If done with RAW, it really isn't too terrible, but it's foolish to divorce it from its toxic applications.

- One-die roll means that characters are generally less competent than they should be, or at least less consistent.

That right there is the biggest issue.

- 5% chance of crit-success or crit-failure is ridiculous.
- Crit-failures are not supposed to make you hit your buddy with a devastating blow, you're supposed to lose some turns, maybe hurt yourself for a couple points. People forget that.
+ Crit-failures aren't supposed to apply to skill rolls, only to combat rolls. People forget that.
- Crit-fishing is something that actually makes sense as a strategy for some people. If it's necessary, you should be legging it.

How d20 related stuff handles crits is problematic at best, with RAW, and fucking unbearable at worst, when misinterpreted or homebrewed.

- Because it advances or improves at a constant rate, it encourages munchkiny behavior, and makes advancement boring.
+ Because of linear advancement, challenges also increase linearly, and the difference of success to a very skilled or a very unskilled character is identical.
+ Because of linear advancement, skills never feel different when they've reached a certain point, and there's a system encouragement to go beyond heroic levels to just ridiculous levels.

While there is a practical limit to how far one can escalate, generally the d20 mechanic encourages a style that doesn't know how to not escalate.

There are other problems beyond those.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Skullbone
I let the opinions of assholes on Veeky Forums dictate what games I like/play

Techpill
Techpill

@Skullbone
d20 is super swingy
take 10 should fix this
One-die roll means that characters are generally less competent than they should be
See above. Also, multiple dice rolls are an unnecessary waste of time.

crit failures/crits
As you mention, the most egregious thing about these is that people just don't play them correctly. Crits don't apply to skills, and in combat it causes a level of danger even when fighting weak enemies.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@Boy_vs_Girl
As someone who knows most of what he knows about 40k from lurking here, it seems like a cool setting. So long as you never attempt to learn more than what is discussed here. The moment I touched the wiki, I learned the horror that only decades of revision can bring

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@likme
This isn't a right opinions thread user.

happy_sad
happy_sad

D&D is good for some types of games and settings

Illusionz
Illusionz

everyone else's setting is worthless and terrible, but MINE is the one that everyone should care about
[System] cannot be enjoyed and you're wrong for enjoying [System]
Wizards should be literal gods and martials are for retards that just want to live out a power fantasy where they're strong
Music at the table is always a bad idea
Music at the table is usually a good idea
Woman don't belong at the table
The average woman is as good at roleplaying as the average man
Cosmic Horror is enjoyable on the Tabletop
Cosmic Horror is worth anything at all.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@Skullbone
Stat Me threads are always funny

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Firespawn
Stat Me threads are ever funny

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Skullbone
ITT wrong opinions
Isn't that just a regular Veeky Forums thread?

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Skullbone
my system is better because it supports transgender elves.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Boy_vs_Girl
40k is a parody, you're not supposed to take it seriously!

likme
likme

@Techpill
Take 10 should fix [d20 swinginess] and [lack of character competence/consistency].

Taking 10: When your character is not being threatened or distracted...
See http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/usingSkills.htm

I am explicitly talking about situations in which you have to roll a d20, like tense stealth moments, combat, social checks, etc. Generally, one should take a stance that if there is no risk to failure, there shouldn't even be a roll. There are exceptions, such as if the players or the PCs shouldn't know the outcome of the roll, for tension, etc. If there is some consequence of failure, but the character is not threatened or under pressure, then that is the intersection where taking 10 should live.

Multiple dice rolls are an unnecessary waste of time.
Pic related.

It really doesn't take that much longer. For a resolution mechanic which I think, subjectively, feels better, I don't mind taking the extra couple seconds to count out two or three extra dice. For some systems, unloading a fistful of dice is part of the fun. Also, in case there is any misunderstanding, I was talking specifically about a "one-die" roll, as opposed to one "die-roll", wherein only one die is cast to constitute a roll, as opposed to multiple dice constituting one roll.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

check out my homebrew critical failure charts, I think they're fairly balanced
it's not like you're gonna immediately critically maim yourself doing something relatively mundane again...

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Skullbone
5% chance of crit-success or crit-failure is ridiculous.
crit failures are a houserule and you should savagely beat your dm with a bag of d20s for trying to use them
crits period are only supposed to happen on combat rolls and are supposed to be confirmed anyway

@Techpill
take 10 should fix this
if your system has to be fixed by ignoring the system, there's something wrong
also if the only reason weaker enemies are ever a threat is just because of crits, there is also something wrong

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@Gigastrength
"I think D&D is terrible!"
Never lists a replacement fantasy book that isn't just someone's houserules of D&D

Supergrass
Supergrass

@Skullbone
d20 is super swingy
I have never understood what people meant by this.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@StonedTime
if your system has to be fixed by ignoring the system, there's something wrong
It was their attempt to ratify a peculiarity from how people played with non-weapon proficiencies in 2e. People would roll, and the DM would say you fail, but then they would just shrug their shoulders and roll again, and the DM didn't really know how to answer that. Not a lot of people understood the idea of cost vs benefit because it was a fairly new and experimental system that was trying to move D&D out of the Dungeon and into the more familiar territory of the over world and campaign setting. The Take 10/20 system is in there trying to answer that instead of realizing that most skill systems like that are flawed to begin with and weren't necessary in the older D&D games.

@Supergrass
It's a single roll modified by one number, which results in lot of successes and lots of failures which leads to ludo-narrative dissonance with the skill system implemented. A wizard trained in magic and specializing in the knowledge of Arcana has a ridiculously high chance (relatively) of failing any check to know things about magic, something he spent his life doing. Meanwhile, within the same party, the Barbarian gets a lucky roll and knows everything the party needs to know about X for no real in-game reason that isn't an after-sales excuse.

5mileys
5mileys

@Supergrass
Then you don't really understand probability. Compare it to a bell curve system like 3d6: you're astronomically more likely to roll average than you are an 18 or a 3, bonuses for characters who are succeeding on a 10 are far more powerful than those who are succeeding on a 5(assuming it's roll over not roll under) to the tune of a +2 being a 24.07% increase in success chance for the former and a 1.84% increase for the latter, while penalties punish the more skilled of the two far less than it does the guy who's only succeeding half of the time.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Ignoramus
Runequest and GURPS dungeon fantasy, Warhammer fantasy role-play

Methshot
Methshot

@Lunatick
Sorry, whenever I point that out, I usually also point out that they have to be good.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Methshot
What's wrong with Runequest?

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

Hey guys, I found another wrong opinion!

@Methshot

Perfectly valid system suggestions aren't good for unlisted reasons.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Emberburn
The fact that it's a d100 system.

I have dice autism and I find d100s and d6s to be the least aesthetically and kinetically pleasing dice in the bunch.

Also I don't like skill systems where you just build percentiles and roll it.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

The "d20 is super swingy" people are people who have never read the rulebook and didn't see the part that goes "You don't have to roll a strength check if you can carry the contents of a small village on your back".

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@New_Cliche
That's because they've never played a game outside of that one time at a friend's house playing pathfinder. That's why a lot of these mouthbreathers think that crit fails are in the rules.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@Boy_vs_Girl
Mathematically theirs more variance with a d20, still it's not a bad resolution mechanic even if d100 is better, DnD is bad for other reasons

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Burnblaze
there's

Supergrass
Supergrass

@Burnblaze
Your only really supposed to roll for tasks that are difficult for your character to accomplish, the variance is a purposeful gamification of that difficulty.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@Supergrass
Other anon; the problem I find with that is just having the mechanic there encourages you to use it even when you know in the back of your head it might be ridiculous, and often times there is no real hard and fast rule for how NOT to use it other than "Use your best judgement", which is usually buried in the back of the DMG if anywhere at all.

I tend to prefer OSR games though. I find that skill systems in general are a bit of a flawed idea to begin with, but that's just me.

Techpill
Techpill

@Supergrass
Which is a problem when you have multiple people rolling on the same check and bonuses are so small that you end up with untrained Wizards beating fantasy Bill Kazmaier on strength checks.

TechHater
TechHater

@Techpill
It's generally a problem with the bonuses rather than the die.

girlDog
girlDog

@TechHater
People get screechy when bonuses are actually appropriate for a d20, so I don't know what to tell you.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@Boy_vs_Girl
"Fumbles" have been in the rules as at least a variant rule since 3rd edition.

https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/2/is-a-fumble-on-a-natural-1-an-official-rule

"Critical failure", as such, has not appeared, to my knowledge. It is, however, ingrained in the popular culture about the game, which is not to be dismissed.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

It is possible to claim objectively that x game is bad, or that y game is better than it.

Let's be honest, it comes down to personal preference every time.

takes2long
takes2long

@Crazy_Nice
FATAL

RumChicken
RumChicken

@New_Cliche
@Boy_vs_Girl

Even WotC knows its swingy, which is why bell-curve rolls showed up as an alternate rule in the 3E Unearthed Arcana. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/bellCurveRolls.htm

In situations where the characters aren't superhumanly good or where the modifier on its own isn't enough to overcome the challenge, they still have to deal with the die roll. Skirting around the die roll with taking 10/20 or with situations where the character is so good they simply won't fail is not addressing the issue. Don't prop up strawmen.

A single d20 is, mathematically, more swingy than multiple dice of any kind. It is empirical, objective fact.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@RumChicken
True but d20 works with appropriate bonuses

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@takes2long

Ah...ur...hmm. Shit yoy got me.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@RumChicken
@Soft_member
It'd also be much better with degrees of success.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@whereismyname
Homebrewing would be fixing the engine. Repainting the car is closer to refluffing.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@Boy_vs_Girl
Age of sigmar's rules are good though.

The lore is shit, and the new rules are distinctly not for the people that really liked how fantasy worked before, but the rules are still fun.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@BlogWobbles
It depends on what kind of homebrewing. I'd say it's closer to swapping out some spark plugs, maybe swapping out the radio and sound system, maybe even doing something drastic like supercharging it or something, but still using the same base engine mostly intact.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Skullbone
anyone who doesn't love my system is a moron

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@BinaryMan
You're right, I tend to forget that 1 is an automatic miss, not just "a number so low you shouldn't even bother with the math".

takes2long
takes2long

@RumChicken

Says "Don't prop up strawmen."
Brings up the Take 10/20 rule which neither poster talked about or addressed at all in their statements

StonedTime
StonedTime

@takes2long
Raw d20 is worse without take 10/20 so if anything he's doing them a favor

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@Skullbone
core only 3.5 is the only way to play 3.5

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@Emberburn
That is every dice system. It all comes down to percentiles at the end of the day.

likme
likme

@Dreamworx
When I said that, I actually meant "Roll vs a static target number with some situational modifiers" as opposed to "Roll vs a target number decided by the situation and add static modifiers". d100 tends to encourage and play the former as opposed to the latter. Also, even if it did play the latter, I think having a one percentile degree of granularity is far, far too much. Most people just tend to pick multiples of 5 and are done with it.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Fuzzy_Logic
The only way to win is not to play

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@New_Cliche
d20
not using 2d6+3 on a 1-20 scale instead

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@takes2long

Thinks that arguing in a way that assumes the best of the opposing side is propping up a strawman.

Wew, lad.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@likme
Mechanical it's the same, I could see why it would feel wrong to you though

Playboyize
Playboyize

@Ignoramus
Thinks that addressing any part of the 3.PF cancer is "the best of the opposing side"
Strawman.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@Gigastrength

i miss these days where Doom and Quake ruled the noosphere and space = demons = human greed inviting literal hell upon them. Where 40k really was a light, if ineffective, commentary on the fears of our modern corporate world's amoral, ever-consuming hunger for short-term profit, wondering when the day is that they'll cross boundaries universally agreed upon to never be crossed.

a duhhhh doyyyy duhhh i mean uhhh the inquisitors are admirable duhhhhhhhhh

cum2soon
cum2soon

@iluvmen
Mechanically it winds up being the same, but psychologically it creates a different approach to situations and world building. It also makes a statement about the condition of the world that is juxtaposed with the rules.

In Roll vs Static Target with Situational Modifiers, your GM is saying "All tasks of this nature are equally difficult, and it is only outside modifiers that alter this". All locks are the same, all boulders are of equal weight, etc.

Roll vs TN Decided by Situation with Static Modifiers allows the GM to subtly imply the difference between tasks even within the same category. The lock you're picking is a bad lock compared to the lock you're picking that is a good lock. This boulder is heavier and requires more strength than this boulder.

While in the former, you can always add modifiers such as "This is a HEAVY BOULDER™, so it gives you a -10%" or "This is an EASY LOCK™ so it gives you a +20%", that makes the impression on the player that the lock is granting them the bonus as opposed to showcasing how good they are at the skill.

JunkTop
JunkTop

@Gigastrength

If only that was still true.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Carnalpleasure
that fucking user though, holy shit

likme
likme

@Crazy_Nice

Maybe that isn't possible, but it's certainly possible to say that some shit works better or worse than some other equivalent shit.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Dreamworx
Eh, not really. The primary difference between what I call "binary" (roll, either succeed or don't) and other systems is that other systems inherently have built in 'level of success' mechanics. Like in a dice pool system, not rolling enough dice above a threshold means that a simple action could take one or two more turns, whereas in a binary system a failure means "nope. Failed."
Imagine this: in real life, you're going to go do a social action. Walk up to a lady and social her.
-if you do well on your initial roll, she's more receptive to subsequent attempts or other types of rolls, like bartering or decieve or whatever.
-if your initial roll is a middling success or minor failure but she doesn't have anything else to do, it may take a little while for her to warm up to you. Imagine that your icebreaker joke was poorly delivered or whatever. Roll next round.
-if you blow the roll, a failure is a failure. She has a boyfriend, or she laughs stiffly and mentions that she needs to find her friends.

In a binary system, the only outcomes given a stated objective are Yes and No. The same general shape of conversation can be approximated with descriptive GMing, but you can hardly rely on that. In fact, I consider that a successful system should feel mechanically like doing a thing. Big handfuls of dice for exciting dramatic actions, few dice for inconsequential things, sequential rolls for actions happening over time.
Imagine rolling a d20 to determine the outcome of Russian roulette!

King_Martha
King_Martha

@SniperGod

As someone who knows most of what he knows about 40k from lurking here
As someone who knows jack shit about 40k
FTFY

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Skullbone
I once was told that not having fun with 4e was impossible because balance is the key to a fun rpg, so therefore I must have memed myself into not loving it.

The guy who said this also unironically declared himself to be one of the most mentally mature people on the planet, so I'm guessing this is one of those wrong opinion things.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@SniperGod
The cool part of 40k is growing up with it. It doesn't hold up to time any better than Pokemon or yugioh cartoons or redwall books or anything else you liked as a kid. The fact that it's being revised literally only matters to people who kept caring for longer than they were supposed to.
And I don't mean that in the 'grow up and stop playing game' sort of way. I mean it as 'you spent 20 years loving this setting and instead of cultivating a love of sci-fi and over the top dark fantasy it made you angry on a Pinoy winemaking image board.'

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@VisualMaster
Gosh, user. Maybe he was, though? There's a 1/8billion chance, roll for it?

Skullbone
Skullbone

@VisualMaster
He did have a point.

A balanced game does tend to be the key to a fun RPG, but only if the balance is asymmetrical and each option in the game has a reason for why they exist and why they need other members of the party to watch their back.

It's no fun watching someone else have fun while you're stuck playing with a shitty character because you didn't know enough about the game to build a viable Fighter class.

It's even less fun playing a mage and ruining the fun for everyone else because you enjoy playing magic users and you stumbled into becoming the most viable member of the party after a few levels.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Skullbone
You're talking about dnd.

The problem is that the game designers didn't consider scaling at fucking all. They mostly balanced it at level 1 and then decided that becoming more accurate and fast with an axe is roughly equivalent to weilding literally earth-splitting spells and the ability to rewrite the game from within the rules.
(And also not making the magic user choose which apocalyptic superpowers that they get. Just scribe scroll lmao)

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@RumChicken
2d10 would be a good compromise

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Skullbone
Of course he had a point. The whole balance thing is incredibly basic. It's his derived thesis that's incredibly retarded.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@Sir_Gallonhead
See http://anydice.com/program/ca5f

2d10 offers something very much similar to craps dice, but on a different scale. It _does_ make for slightly more consistent rolls, but not by much. It also raises the average roll by .5, which mildly upsets some of the balance.

3d6 has a more consistent bell curve. It is used in the UA rules as listed here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/bellCurveRolls.htm

Honestly a lot of the Unearthed Arcana rules make d20 stuff in general a lot better, like the traits stuff, and the armor as damage reduction stuff.

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Skullbone
5e is bad
non-human races are bad
splatbook races/classes/options are bad
badwrongfun means more then munchkin players deliberately breaking the game or lolsorandumb

basically everything Veeky Forums believes is wrong

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@happy_sad
Armor as DR is a pretty bad rule because the game isn't built around it. The rule itself points something like this out, but it's understating just how common big guys who hit hard once or twice a round are, especially since the reduced AC means Power Attack(a very very common feat on these types of enemies) overpowers the increased DR by itself. Then on the other side of the spectrum, you have Monks and TWFers crying themselves to sleep because the increase in DR means there's a net loss in their overall damage despite hitting slightly more often.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@TalkBomber
Okay, that's fair. I hadn't considered the ramifications if you plop it into the game as is. In a perfect world, it could be plopped in as a side-grade to the existing mechanic.

All the same, I do prefer Armor as DR from a perspective of verisimilitude and ludo-narrative structure.

One of the reasons I like GURPS, but that's a wrong opinion according to some members of this thread. I'll just keep having my badwrongfun.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Skullbone
5e is the most popular game in the world!

Not roleplaying game, not pen and paper game, but the single most popular game in the world, more so than tag, hide-and-seek, or football. I have had people unironically try to "prove" this to me by posting polls done by WotC and year old Roll20 infographs.

You've fallen so far Veeky Forums

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@StonedTime
crit failures are a houserule and you should savagely beat your dm with a bag of d20s for trying to use them
crits period are only supposed to happen on combat rolls and are supposed to be confirmed anyway

This is, indeed, a very wrong opinion!

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@Harmless_Venom
crits
ever

almost as gross as exploding dice tbqhsfal

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Skullbone
Using a certain system is the most important part of enjoyable game play
A system is useless if you have to tweak the rules to fit your group's play style
System mastery is the most important thing a player brings to the table
5e sucks because people with relatively normal social skills enjoy it
ERP is acceptable under some circumstances
/tg/ is full of smart, creative people with interesting opinions

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Raving_Cute
God forbid players do something that they enjoy at the expense of your precious, precious realism

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Raving_Cute

tbqhsfal
To be quite honest (so fucking adequately loser?)

What's that mean tho

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@TurtleCat
I was speaking as a player user. I've always found crits and exploding dice to be annoying mechanics.

But to each their own.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@Flameblow
Ultimately the problem with UA rules, and really, most houserules for 3.5, compared to something like variant rules for GURPS is that since 3.5 was developed around a very specific set of mechanics all working in tandem, it isn't prepared to accept houserules that replace some of those parts without extensive work on the other intertwined parts of the game first. Just for basic examples from UA: Armor-as-DR hurts the PCs vs over half of the MM and screws over combat styles that focus on volume of attacks over individual hits like archery and TWF, 3d6 overpowers save or lose spells and opposed skill checks when neither of them needed help, Vitality/Wound points means that critical hits are instant kills against anything smaller than Huge for the majority of the game. All of them are good ideas: if the rest of the game worked with them, rather than against them.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Burnblaze
You are not wrong. Those rules definitely break some of the classes. If the tone of the game is already pretty gritty/realistic, then I wonder how much it would matter? If it were mostly resembling the classic four: knight, cleric, wizard, rogue, how much would these rules suck for them?

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@Skullbone
Ani-Mayhem isn't bad.

Inmate
Inmate

@Stupidasole
All of them together? Fighter gets universally hurt by it due to poor saves/skills becoming a larger liability while enemy crits instantly drop them, Clerics benefit overall because their high Fort and Will put them out of range of save or loses and while they can still be instantly killed like Fighters can in melee, they're now no worse off than them unbuffed due to enemy AC dropping and making their slightly lower attack bonus irrelevant and crits being the major factor in how quickly you kill an enemy, Rogues get large stealth benefits but lose out in combat so it's a net loss because if they bothered, they were already dominating stealth under 1d20. You could make it work, but you'd need to design monsters yourself, refactor skill/save/DC scaling to fit 3d6, and fix the wound points system so that it can stop crits from being an instant kill for the entire game. And that's honestly more work than it's worth to play a game that's still going to have issues.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@Inmate
Feh. That much dicking about just to get the game to feel like I want it to and be balanced properly. For that I might as well just crack open GURPS Dungeon Fantasy, do some seat-of-my-pants transposing with the Monster Manual and be done with it. I will say this, I was digging all the Unearthed Arcana variant rules before I discovered that GURPS even existed. Maybe I'm just a fag for bell-curves and mechanics that make sense.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@Lunatick
gurps is good

Perfect for this thread, thanks for reminding us, user.

MPmaster
MPmaster

@Nude_Bikergirl
I'd just play GURPS or even work off of the base in 5E instead. 3.5 is spectacularly bad at even vaguely realistic combat if you don't want to spend 6+ months ironing out everything.

Skullbone
Skullbone

[that class] is overpowered
[this class] is shit
Especially if these statements are said by someone who is shit at the game and doesn't know how it works. Much like the entirety of Veeky Forums

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Skullbone
class gives their whole party 10 rounds of actions for every 1 you would normally get
no it's not overpowered guys trust me

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