/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

So there's no need for a Beast to actively feed or go around teaching lessons?

When their satiety gets too low, the Horror will go out on it's own and munch on people's nightmares automatically.

Could you just cut the hunger/lessons stuff entirely?

Lessons should definitely be cut, except maybe as a paper-thin rationalization used by a particularly nasty antagonist. Hunger however drives the game and needs to stay in.

For totems wrath don't you need to have your totem possess a pack mate? Seems lame to be honest
>attorneys
If I wanted to play an intellectual game with social crap I'd play Demon or heaven forbid vampire. Also everyone knows the best way to deal with mages is to leave them alone

To be fair if the plan to deal with 'the mage' is attack him you need a better plan. That's true across all gamelines.

>Horror will go out on it's own and munch on people's nightmares automatically.

That's not a good thing.

>Reason #1 why other supernaturals should hunt Beasts to extinction

Teaching lessons is useless fluff that you can easily ignore.
Hunger however is pretty damn important thematically and should be used.

A horror giving someone a nightmare one night is no where near as bad as a leech feeding on you

Whaaaaaaat, naaaaaaaw, come on guy, don't you just love those scamps.

The book says you love them, so you better make with the love.

What?
Vampire feeding is pleasurable.

No, Totem's Wrath Materializes a new body for the Totem.

How do you raise Integrity in CofD?

What if you need the wizards help (you know, mages aren't *always* the bad guys), and you have to hunt for some tome, relic, rare doodad or person?

Similarly, what happens when you need to negotiate with powerful mage/vampire/changeling/etc. for the bane of a powerful spirit adversary?

The Elodoth is the "face" of the group, and his skills and abilities often mean the difference between success and oblivion.

It's sad to see a game as good as a Forsaken 2e with players who approach it the same way someone rolls a Fighter to kill orcs in D&D.

Fuck you!

A good Mage mystery would be figuring out why the heck other splats like Beasts so much.

>no where near as bad as a leech feeding on you

I see no more inherent redeeming qualities in vampires than beasts, other than vampires apparent acknowledgment of the own monstrosity and ostensible attempts to maintain their Humanity.

It actually would be.

"Epopt, we postcogged the freelancers who wrote this book and discovered they're all fat faggots."

"Just as foretold."

>A good Mage mystery would be figuring out why the heck other splats like Beasts so much

What Arcana would reveal Plot Armor(tm) under Focused Mage Sight?

Fate and Prime?

Vampires aren't half the creeps Beasts are.

>Hey baby, wanna come back to my Lair and check out some... forbidden knowledge?

>discovered they're all fat faggots.

Gender non-conforming fat faggots.

FIFY

It's tantamount to rape and a violation of all things good.
Werewolf doesn't need a face character. I have yet to meet a player who wanted to play a face character in werewolf. Usually someone is forced to play elodoth because the kuruth management and totems wrath is too good to pass up.

Yeah, but that's sort of the point. Doesn't mean it isn't pleasurable for both parties.

>detect lies, great for investigation. If you don't give them an investigation to do, they should investigate rival packs to see how they can fuck them up. You can also force reliable information out of a defeated pack.

How can they do that? I ask because their power seems a very expensive "detect lies" but first they gotta be on speaking terms on other Urathas.

I started the game by giving them a piece of a territory given them from elder pack, hoping they would want to expand it. But them they turned totally passive and just went "eh why would we want more?"

I tried to force the elodoth into negotiation by putting a nearby packs slacking off and putting the whole "their slacking off affect your territory" but them they went full frontal assault on the weaker pack and cede the part of the territory to the elder pack.

>Not all hunts need be violent affairs. You can hunt for knowledge, secrets, and solutions to all sorts of problems. Elodoth shine in these scenarios.

My issue is they never do the hunt. They dont get it and try to explain it how they can hunt for other stuff besides things to punch.

>As for another Rahu, Totem's Wrath gives the pack another combatant in addition to the Elodoth.

Doesnt that gift sours the packs relationship with the totem? And make you potentially loose it.

>Werewolves can, and should, do more than engage in bloody conflict.
>An Iron Master Elodoth attorney can do more for the Pack and the Forsaken overall than a slobbering one-note, hack'n'slash Blood Talen Rahu.

Well, actually that more or less the Packs elodoth. A Storm lord Elodoth, is mostly newbies to the game or people who played first edition, so the elodoth complains his lunar gifts are shitty and there is nothing for him to do.

In part is my fault i tend to ignore the PCs human lives because i dont like the whole "secret identity, spiderman thing".

Neither vampires or beasts serve any purpose. Both splats are inhuman monsters that don't belong in this world. They should be hunted to extermination in the name of The Most High

>I have yet to meet a player who wanted to play a face character in werewolf.

And that, in a nutshell, is the problem with Forsaken players, not Elodoth pc's.

I give credit to the developers and writers of Forsaken 2e, they created a great game with ample possibilities for all types of play. Sadly, most players want to engage in little more than "Woof Smash!"

Hey guys, I'm a new ST about to do a VtM game, I've already been a ST once, but I didn't do things properly back then.

I was thinking about this chronicle
>vtm.kismetrose.com/sc/storytelling/Storytelling01.html
tl.dr they start as humans, sabbath mass embrace (shovelheads), sheriff wipes sabbat pack, they come out and they don't know shit

What do you think?

Also additional advices for new STs.

So, I'm having some issues with coming up equipment for a Hunter. Like, I have a flashlight and a first aid kit, and that's it.
Weapons aren't an issue, but more general equipment is. What's some good stuff for a social character/occultist to have?
I've got Resources 2.

>Both splats are inhuman monsters that don't belong in this world. They should be hunted to extermination in the name of The Most High

>Isn't that a basically just a Tuesday night for most Obrimos?

Alex Jones is obviously a Hunter who's been dementated one too many times. Outside of that not sure, probably an expertise and interdisciplinary specialty in expression: loud.

Face characters belong in Vampire. Combat beasts belong in Werewolf. Why are you trying to do away with the Status quo?

Rope, duct tape, lighter and the card of a good criminal attorney that'll take your call in the middle of the night.

At this point i am considering just killing his PC off, he just charged in gauru agaisnt a bunch of ghouls with silver guns. He declared Down and dirty, rolled 12 dices vs 6 of the ghouls and didnt get any.

Basically the guy complains the system is shit (fair complain, it is mediocre........but thats true from all wod games) but his complains comes that forsaken doesnt have an easy mode like masquerade. He has to read and he is a lazy fuck.

So i am thinking as to make him a Irraka pre made it made by me so he can be useful and during the time skip made a Elodoth stormlord from a pack they just also almost got decimated join their pack to show him how useful it can be.

Speaking of which, what would be a good gift selection for a Elodoth Stormlord (not combat oriented, dont wanna outshine the rahu)

>Face characters belong in Vampire. Combat beasts belong in Werewolf.

How banal, limiting and boring. Don't you ever play against type?

>How can they do that? I ask because their power seems a very expensive "detect lies" but first they gotta be on speaking terms on other Urathas.

Fight pack. Beat pack. "Where's your locus? Lie and I'll cut your dick off." One or two lopped dicks later, you go plunder their locus and detecting lies pays for itself.

>Doesnt that gift sours the packs relationship with the totem? And make you potentially loose it.

Nah, the totem just doesn't help the pack for a few days. That's why it's a panic button. Prevailing in a close fight is still worth it.

>In part is my fault i tend to ignore the PCs human lives because i dont like the whole "secret identity, spiderman thing".

What about the humans and wolfbloods that it's NOT a secret from? Most Forsaken packs aren't just werewolves.

>He has to read and he is a lazy fuck

Definitely not someone who should play an Elodoth.

>Elodoth outshineing a rahu ever
I guess it's possible if your rahu player is literally brain dead at character builds
>Don't you ever play against the type?
No why would I ever do that? My motto is fix what isn't broken?

The best Werewolf APs I have read didn't have a wolfblooded and if they did they were incredibly minor characters. Non werewolf pack members was a mistake along with the reworked harmony. 2e forsaken is to noblebright imo.

>And that, in a nutshell, is the problem with Forsaken players, not Elodoth pc's.
>I give credit to the developers and writers of Forsaken 2e, they created a great game with ample possibilities for all types of play. Sadly, most players want to engage in little more than "Woof Smash!"

I dont know, honestly i could play a face character a lot better in apocalypse than Forsaken. In apocalypse there was an actual social structure to manipulate.

The garou veer for position in a Sept and then into tribal/Sept conflicts. Deals to breeding and exchange of power was more defined in apocalypse. It was Game of Thrones in the sense that there was this generational political structure between factions under a "nation"

Same with the judges, in apocalypse there was clear social structure. Sept alpha dominated the protectorate and while the pack were units they had to answer to the Septs and the litany was fanatically enforced so a trial by litany breaking had more weight to it.

In forsaken, each pack is an island unless they form a protectorate and even then, many of the laws (except cannibalism and masquerade breaches) has to many grey areas. And that assuming the surrounding pack would bother in enforcing the punishment.

If you're player just wants to be a lazy git. He's not going to have fun playing Elodoth.

General utility stuff is more useful than you'd think. Tools, rope, duct tape, even some spare wood can come in handy.

As for social characters in particular? I recall there being a rule for using fine quality or clothing that fits in as equipment that boosts social rolls situationally. So honestly maybe a nice suit that you can still hide weapons in.

>>Elodoth outshineing a rahu ever
>I guess it's possible if your rahu player is literally brain dead at character builds

I mean i dont wanna make a Elodoth NPC with all the strenght and rage gifts so he could punch alongside the rahu. I am thinking on building the NPC elodoth the most effective possibly in his auspice "niche".

Recommendations?

With double-stacked Honor, your Elodoth Storm Lord should have a look at the same list I gave for Elodoth in general.

Weather's a good set for Storm Lords because only they have Weather affinity. Have him summon a thunderstorm as combat prep and immunize the pack from its effects.

Strength and Dominance will help him set enemies up for attacks by other pack members.

Stealth and Inspiration will help the pack get the first strike.

Warding will help the pack force a fight with an outmatched enemy.

These powers selected to assist the pack, not overshadow it.

>What about the humans and wolfbloods that it's NOT a secret from? Most Forsaken packs aren't just werewolves.

They are working on that. The elodoth just want to bring them all into the fold. The ithaur, which used to be my problem player because i suspect she is an autistic woman but now really got into actually playing an Ithaeur (she just without gifts, raise a small army of fire spirits to fight vampires), pulled a "it is what my character would do" bullshit and she is slowing the whole thing.

Packs are independent, but that doesn't mean they never work together or never make deals. Your local packs know about each other, are friendlier with some than others, can pursue prey into some territories but not others. No central authority does not mean no supernatural society.

Look what fucking happens when the magefags arnt around, the place goes to shit.

Strength and Rage are different for different auspices. The Honor facets are not the same as the Purity facets. Rage Honor is both not as interesting (oh look an NPC is still in warform) and not as suitable for your Storm Lord Elodoth, but Strength Honor is great with a pack backing it up.

Don't forget that many packs form protectorates. It's the Elodoth who keep them functioning.

>Actual discussion about gameplay, mechanics, and someone's campaign
>Shit

In Forsaken 1e, wasn't Max Roman an Elodoth?

We actually had a good (but silly) discussion about Mage up above.

How is this any more shit than the last thousand threads of argument?

I don't even know the first thing about werewolf and hearing about this guy's player is way more interesting than any mage discussion.

They say Spirit can fuck with Gifts. How does this work? Examples please?

>>Actual discussion about gameplay, mechanics, and someone's campaign

Us Mage Anons are just amusingly observing as woof players prove time and again that the solution to every woof problem is mindless violence.

>We actually had a good (but silly) discussion about Mage up above.

The recent Mage discussion about how the blood of different Paths fuck-up vampires was a lot of fun.

Thanks. Guess I'll just go with utility basics, and worry about social stuff later.

It is open ended, because it would require creative thaumaturgy and a mage PC telling his ST what he plans to do.

So pretty much make up what you would want to do with a gift, and someone here will tell you how many dots in spirit that would take.

The spirit Arcana? Then shielding protects vs gifts. Thats about it.

>They say Spirit can fuck with Gifts. How does this work?

Oh boy...

Spirit can manipulate anything of or relating to the Shadow.

For instance, Spirit 2 Shielding cast be a mage of middling ability can effectively no sell all the gifts of an entire pack.

in4 REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Claws arnt gifts!!

Well no.
It would cause a clash of wills whenever a gift tries to interact with the shield.

Smartphone should go without saying, although you might want to leave it at home when you plan to commit crimes.

>Examples please?
Ephemeral Shield (Spirit 2) can defend against the "spiritual magic" of Werewolves.

In a spirit heavy/cross-Forsaken Mage campaign (npc crossover only) you could logically rule that Spirit could act to Gifts or other Spirit phenomena that same way that Prime acts to Supernal magic.

>In Forsaken 1e, wasn't Max Roman an Elodoth?

Yes, he is.

No problem. Most social advantages lie in merits, so getting those with your early exp would be a good strategy.

Good hunting user.

In the upcoming Contagion Chronicles, will it be one book, or is the intent for each game line to get a book?

Even BEFORE 2e, DaveB agreed that Spirit, Fate n' Death could piss on Werewolves, Changelings and Sin-Eaters, respectively.

Not him, and it would be Fate rather than Spirit, but say you wanted to cancel out the Changeling Contract Become the Primal Foundation, basically dispelling it. What practice would you need, would it be resisted or Clashed or nothing at all, et c.

>Groxnar, Annoyer of Uratha

lol

Sounds like one book, to start. With maybe supplements to go along with it.

So like the 'idigam chronicles' being the introduction to Werewolf 2e. Contagion chronicles is the introduction to crossover 2e.

>It would cause a clash of wills whenever a gift tries to interact with the shield.

That's why I indicated it would require a mage of at least middling ability.

Also, don't forget that mage spells can be area of effect and/or multiple targets.

If the pack is fighting a Thyrsus or a mage proficient in spirit, most Gifts will be useless.

What Dave says doesn't matter to other splatfags. It just makes them mad and call him shit. Then when you point to the book where it says the same thing, they get mad and call Mage shit. So mad, all the time.

>Fate
Buddy, Gifts are werewolf powers.
Changeling contracts would be fate.
Gifts would be spirit.

Fate Fraying or Unmaking?

Nope my friend. Using alchemist touch as a base a spiritual shield will block all damage unless it is aggravated and even that is reduced by potency. Too bad that werewolves don't even get aggravated damage for what ever reason in the first place

To troll the Troll(Changeling), you need Fate 4.

>>Groxnar

>Groxnar sounds more like a Moros or Mastigos than Thyrsus.

NO clash because ending it isnt doing opposite of whatever that contract is doing, might be some form of withstand rating but it's up to the ST

Which one is alchemist touch?

>Packs are independent, but that doesn't mean they never work together or never make deals. Your local packs know about each other, are friendlier with some than others, can pursue prey into some territories but not others. No central authority does not mean no supernatural society.

Can you expand on this? 1E seems to made pack very territorial. Why would they allow other pack to enter their territory? Why not say "when shit enters out turf we kill it and take the renown, fuck off"

Even negotiations, how would that work? I am trying to figure out leverage in negotiations.

Besides the possibility of pursuing a pack into another´s territory what would a pack would need from another? What would a pack need from another to allow them to enter their territory in pursuit?

And why wouldn't they settle everything by combat? Considering that wolf regenerate like crazy, how isnt that the go to on pack-on-pack negotiations?

They could duke it out until one reaches aggravated and the be good as new in less than a week.

Alchemist's Touch is for mundane phenomena. Supernatural attacks explicitly cause a Clash.

Go read the fucking spell you mongo, this isnt creative thaum.

>Discussing Mage Shielding Spells

>DangerDanger

>and any spiritual powers of other supernatural >creatures such as werewolves. Such attacks >must succeed at a Clash of Wills to harm the subject.

...

The rule of thumb for mage "taking everything Dave says and doing the exact opposites gives you a more balance game"

X CARD

It would cause a Clash, but it wouldn't really matter. They won't be able to beat a Mage's Duration bonuses.
Nor will they likely have Aggravated damage to break through

>Mage Supremacy

>Supernatural attacks explicitly cause a Clash.

I'm certain a mage can use Creative Thaumaturgy Spirit Shielding to potentially immunize a mage from direct attacks using Gifts along the lines of Alchemist's Touch.

The Clash of Wills is usually for more indirect or esoteric types of effects.

That's incredibly stupid. If you did the exact opposite, it would still be unbalanced, just in the other direction.

Wth am I reading?
I was responding to this >They say Spirit can fuck with Gifts. How does this work? Examples please?

What conversation do you think we're having?