Discuss

Better be nerd than queer

DnD is already gay though.

Song of swords is kinda gay, but in a fun, gay-nazi kind of way.
and zells, of course.

>Kotaku

Disregarded

Lets include two page profiles of minor NPCs and talk about how they just want to:
Be a woman
Be a man
Fuck dudes in the Butt
Eat out some other girl

In a medieval faux-imile world, its kinda difficult to be high on Maslow's hierarchy of needs when your town is in danger of being sacked by orcs, torched by some BBEG, eaten by dragons or kidnapped by Drow.

People moreso were stupid, Ignorant or bigoted when they can't write or self-actualize... learn to portray it because its far more interesting than if everyone's OK with it..

I know if I were gay or queer or whatever, I'd be mad that tangentially introducing one or two gay characters to a side quest counts as queer representation.

Meh as long as their stories aren't shit I could care less if there is LGBT characters in their stories.

Character sexuality is largely irrelevant to me. I'm running heroic high fantasy games with a bunch of dudes. Not interested in romantic plots at all. This is just sjw pandering.

As long faggots don't play I don't see a reason to not support Gays and Lesbians to play it.

Isn't all we want to do is just go out and slay dragons and shit?
Although to be fair, WoTC could just say that to get some good PR with a heavily biased left wing press, I expect alotta people there just want to write adventures and make their game fun. its what drives every company really... any successful one mind you.

>implying they're going to force pillow biters in my games
Kek, still a lot of time till they're able to police our thoughts.

>Want to be persecuted so they got Yass queen times
>Want to be normalized
Ok, could you make your mind already? this is tiresome

My only issue with it is that its a corperate marketing ploy to appeal to liberals, otherwise its great

If you were gay or queer or whatever you'll be mad about everything, stick and stones may break your bones but there will be always something that makes SJW mad

The term is couldn't care less, user

This is going to turn into paizo level of bait
>Oh look, that dude, yeah, is a dude he has dick and beard, tries to pass for a girl and is trying to seduce you, wait you aren't interested? you're a bigot and a homophobe, the town attacks you
This appears in an AP

>by incorporating queer characters and elements into our Dungeons & Dragons™ franchise, we're alienating our socially awkward, neckbearded, basement-dwelling section of the fanbase
>...
>"Dungeons & Dragons Promises To Make Its Adventurers More Queer"

Yeah i think that is why nobody runs APs anymore, except maybe the first few.

A buddy of mine is hyped for Starfinder, but its probably going to go downhill fast unless they realize that progressive stuff that was shit in PF was a bad idea.

Holy shit, I know it's bait, but does it really fucking matter what goes on at a private game table? The only time what goes on at another guy's game is anyone else's buissness is if they're telling a amusing story of it.

theres nothing wrong with critiquing modern adventure models that handle their idealogical message like the average group of teenagers in a freeform RP

I just want to game. I don't care what players or their characters do with thier private parts. I thought the LGBTQ and LGBTQ Ally badge ribbons at GenCon are fucking ridiculous. Fucking in-out group persecution complex.

Just gender bend all their characters to suit your preferences. What could go wrong?

Bad idea. The neckbeard audience may not necessarily be a pleasant or well liked face of TTRPGs but they are an incredibly dependable and profitable group for GW. I'm afraid that by appealing to outside audiences based solely on identity politics and not gameplay itself GW will gain money in the short term but alienate their long term customers while their new audience will quickly abandon them and flock to the next flavor of the month game.

Great, another game we're not going to able to play when my one LGBT player has a meltdown. We already can't play Pathfinder without them throwing a screaming fit about how sexist Paizo is.

No way. Got scans of this? That's still beyond the pale for me, not sure I believe you.

Stop being a faggot and let people support others.

GW? Retarded people pity you.

Not that guy but he is letting people support others he just expressed his dislike for it.

What AP?

Welp I feel retarded now

I need a laugh what AP does that happen in?

False dichotomy - you can do both. Swing both ways, if you will.

Other user, but calling someone having "persecution complex" sounds exactly as going against supporting it.

Nothing to discuss, targeting emerging demographics makes sense. Your games are still under your control, no one is obligated to use premade adventures unaltered or at all. If you want your settings to be autistic recreations of some idealized medieval Europe where the faggots were always stoned to death, you can still do that. Clearly that's not what dnd is trying to focus on. The entire concept of an 'adventurer' in the ttrpg sense is ahistorical as well, not to mention the dragons and elves and monster-filled dungeons.

So when you cleave, does that mean you are Bi-secting someone?

(If that is the quality of jokes we get by supporting LGBT people into the game, I'm totally for it).

Wait, there were bikers and neonazis being stoned to death in Medieval Europe?

>This sole user's opinion is literally stopping people from supporting LGBTQ people

RPGs let you do whatever the fuck you want with your imagination, you have always been able to be a polyamorous scalie that mutates gender every 30 minutes.
This is not representation, it's social marxism.

Oh no. Its a faggot. Guess he wasnt stoned to death in the medieval times.

Do you really not see why an LGBT person might not buy it when a company says "you can be anything you want...but all of our NPCs in all of our books are going to be heteronormative, except maybe for one or two token mentions here and there." It doesn't mean much to SAY anything goes if your setting doesn't demonstrate that.

Now, mind, I'm not saying that absolutely every D&D product should now include LGBT NPCs in major roles all over the place, either. There is a line where you cross over from "inclusive" to "pandering".

There's a balance somewhere, and D&D is looking for it. And that's good.

The ones that don't die from disease or not being able to speak the local languages, yeah. Time travel's a bitch, for English-speakers there's really only about a 400-year window where you can go back in time and actually be understood and understand what other people are saying. I imagine the situation is pretty similar with other languages, too.

You are cool user.

>Do you really not see why an LGBT person might not buy it when a company says "you can be anything you want...but all of our NPCs in all of our books are going to be heteronormative, except maybe for one or two token mentions here and there."
i certainly can't
TTRPGs are all about making your own characters and npcs and adventures
i can see why it'd turn people off if literally their only experience is trying to play preplanned modules at conventions but those are more like video games with little roleplay so they're a bad introduction to ttrpgs anyway and making them more diverse won't change that

I consider people who care about the sexual orientation of people they don't intend to seduce to be predatory and disgusting.

Not a single product should include the degeneracy of sodomites. The balance is the same as the amount of pedophiles that should be included so that it is inclusive.

These assholes don't understand that being LGBTQ is more than just sex. But then again this is TG, and I don't assume they have any kind of relationships.

Don't play a game with false gods, demons and themes about death, religious user.

Stop conflating LGBT with SJWs. I detest the far left because they treat us like infants.

>anti-pedo on Veeky Forums
lmao where the fuck do you think you are
feel free to fuck off back to normiebook anytime

Most modules I've run haven't mentioned the sexuality of the NPCs unless they are in a relationship and it has bearing to the story. It's entirely possible for the DM to just assume some are homosexual rather than straight.

That being said, I remember there being LGBT NPCs as early as modules in the 90s, so I'm not sure there was a problem here to begin with.

>Do you really not see why an LGBT person might not buy it when a company says "you can be anything you want...but all of our NPCs in all of our books are going to be heteronormative, except maybe for one or two token mentions here and there." It doesn't mean much to SAY anything goes if your setting doesn't demonstrate that.

remember that adventures are for DM's eyes only, so including LGBT character into it does not really work for your argument here as most LGBT people in the community won't see these characters or know there gay. I guess what they should have done is put some LGBT characters into the sword coasts adventurers guide to demonstrate what your talking about but its too late now.

>Now, mind, I'm not saying that absolutely every D&D product should now include LGBT NPCs in major roles all over the place, either. There is a line where you cross over from "inclusive" to "pandering".

We don't know that they wont just be pandering, and even if there not, there is the social justice crowd who will not be happy no matter how this plays out and they are the most vocal on this shit.

>There's a balance somewhere, and D&D is looking for it. And that's good.

There is no balance that will work for everyone. Someone is gonna get left by the wayside in this shit. It would have been better to avoid that and not bring it up and potentially lose customers then pander to people that we don't know if there were gonna buy your game in the first place.

He is not a normie. I never heard a normie talk about sodomites, unless they are religious-nuts.

religious nut normies are still normies
and they still don't belong here

>Do you really not see why an LGBT person might not buy it when a company says "you can be anything you want...but all of our NPCs in all of our books are going to be heteronormative, except maybe for one or two token mentions here and there."

No, I do not. There is nothing token about having these people be rare ... they are rare. To expect to be ridiculously over-represented in something created for mainly white male heterosexuals is silly.

>encouraging women in the medium is a good thi-

>more queer
>a disgusting hag who kidnaps young women and torments them for her own sexual gratification has been causing havoc in a small town
Imagine. An Ugly, Lesbian Villain.

>heteronormative
Anyone who uses this word unironically is completelu brainwashed.

The word you're looking for is "normal".

Nobody in the medieval fantasy world or this one wants lunatics who can't figure out what pair of genitals they have running around screeching about how people don't accept them enough.

I really don't give a hoot who my generic quest giver shags or prefers to shag in their spare time
Transexuals are also out of place in a setting where you can just magic your bits into the other set practically on a whim
A character that's male on Wednesdays and Fridays but not when its raining because of the ring they wear is quirky and vaguely interesting
A character that spent their childhood as a male but decided it was better to "act as a female" is not and invalidates the argument against gender roles

White males are rarer in comparison to other races, but you see them in everything.

But user, Orc Hordes always outnumber the human villages they sack

Literally could not give a damn.

My game group has straights gays and bis and we all get along fine, we don't ever touch the actual published adventures beyond vague setting information anyway and just do our own thing. I myself am bi and I've never felt unwelcome at any table I played at, real or digital.

This whole 'inclusivity' thing is bullshit and always has been, we don't need some company virtue signalling to help us get along.

And anybody who's so obsessed with their sexual orientation that they refuse to play with something unless it specially panders to their group isn't worth trying to please anyway.

> but you see them in everything [they created or developed]
Fixed that for you user, free of charge!

True, but white males are like everywhere when you compare to elfs, and drows, and dwarves.

Seriously though, I think people that are against this are usually those guys that only want to play male human warriors. They want a life so vanilla, so basic its almost grating.

Because white males make up the majority of TTRPG fanbases.

And now they are making stuff for gays and lesbians. Its not just for white straight guys. Its not that hard dude.

Go immerse yourself in the fictional works of any middle eastern or asian country
I bet they have a lot of middle eastern or asian characters in them

>>American TTRPG

>They want a life so vanilla, so basic its almost grating.
That happens when you've experienced the opposite of every person at your table playing a furry special snowflake race.

Yes, and those countries are not America, which has had a fairly diverse population for many years.
You don't actually have an argument, or at least it's on the same tier as people who argue that characters in manga and anime are white.

The most popular TTPRGs are American.

I still think this is an internet meme.
I have never actually seen this irl, or heard of it, outside of people who try to bring pcs who grossly violate the tone or themes of the game.

I prefer to play non human, non white, non straight characters, but aside from the non-human I don't expect ANY of those characteristics to come up in game because that's not why I'm playing.

I live in a primarily white city in the southern hemisphere
Most of the people I interact with are white
Even roughly half of the foreigners i interact with are white
Why is it unacceptable then for me to make most of my human characters white
If i even bother to mention skin color
Remember we're talking about a med

>>In America
Most countries have their own RPG systems rather than use american ones, either because they don't like it, or the translation is terrible.

>i can see why it'd turn people off if literally their only experience is trying to play preplanned modules

It basically boils down to "talk is cheap". It's easy for a company to SAY that they're in favor of LGBT stuff, but without publishing things then they're not demonstrating it. Consider it as being roughly equivalent to, say, a politician who says "I promise to protect the LGBTQ community!" but then once he gets office he doesn't do a single thing for them.

And indeed maybe bans them from serving in the military. I really thought Trump would wait at least a year before walking back on that one.

By that logic, you shouldn't care if EVERY NPC in D&D is made into the gayest thing since the impossible lovechild of Elton John and Freddie Mercury.

True, but given that the default assumption of society tends to be "straight" (in fairness, biological imperative means that this is almost always the case anyway), it's easy to see why people would assume that if no sexuality is mentioned, then the NPC is straight.

Even in settings where this is explicitly not the case - Golarion for example - references to this fact are usually buried deep in the lore, so deep that even aforementioned impossible lovechild of Elton John and Freddie Mercury would have a hard time finding it, and so the fanbase presumes that instead the NPCs in the setting are generally straight.

>There is no balance that will work for everyone.

No, of course not, but there is a balance that will work for the greatest number of people, and in the meantime the effort to find the balance is, itself, great for marketing capital.

>they are rare

In the US, about 3.8%, though possibly a little higher (as homosexuals in more conservative states are more likely to deny their sexuality). Let's peg it to an even 4% for the sake of simplicty. Do you think that percentage would hold up if we examined the various D&D NPCs in known relationships?

Here's the thing, have women on the dev team, a tranny as the writer, a poof who rides a unicorn to work as the artist, a Jew as a playtester, an autist as the balance guy, a black guy be the formatter I don't care.

But the second you point out their sex, LGBT status, religion, or disability, you are virtue signalling and deserve all the ire and accusations you get.

Why the fuck would you compare the west to those collectivist societies, user?

>>By that logic, you shouldn't care if EVERY NPC in D&D is made into the gayest thing since the impossible lovechild of Elton John and Freddie Mercury.
Why would anyone care unless it affects personality? No one would fucking find out. It'd be completely unknown to the player, unless you're some kinda fucking prejudiced bigot who thinks homosexuals act in specific manners because homosexuals are inherently different

Which they very well may be, but then you've got a completely valid argument against homosexuals: they're fucking annoying.
I consider straight gays to be the same as straights in terms of friendship, but flaming gays (or metrosexuals for that matter) can fuck right off. Annoying faggots.

Just because you live in a Nazi safezone doesn't mean others do.
>Why is it unacceptable then for me to make most of my human characters white
Why do you want most of the world to be the same? I'm black, I have a fairly strong variety of npcs because I like my players to encounter many things.
Further, this isn't about what players have in their games, but what devs, or publicists really, mandate their media look like.
This.
For many years, you would struggle to find a npc that wasn't "acceptable to the masses" at all. I've had gay npcs in my games before, as long as you don't make it their only attribute, no one (out of adults) really cares.

I mean apparently it's more common in Dwarves and Elves than in Humans, Orcs, and Halflings.

Because he thinks the west is a collectivist society. He thinks only white guys exist in it, until maybe a girl shows up.

I've just gotten into tabletop but if its anything like other nerd hobbies, like comics and vidya, then LGBT are probably over-represented compared to the national statistics.

I don't think "is sexually interested in men" is a particularly relevant part of a character bio for an npc
"Is married to [man]" on the other hand can be useful if that man is also relevant to the story

>The word you're looking for is "normal".

No, it's heteronormative. We're strictly talking about their sexual preferences with regard to gender, so I'm going to use the term that refers to that. For all I know a good portion of these people are into vore, or cock & ball torture, neither of which are "normal". "Normal" is straight sex between a married couple in bed in the missionary position with the lights off for the purpose of procreation. And it's the sickest thing there is.

>Transexuals are also out of place in a setting where you can just magic your bits into the other set practically on a whim

In fairness, that magic's expensive. An adventurer or king(female) might have access to it. A peasant probably doesn't.

Don't get me wrong, I hate Shadra (the female-in-a-male's-body dwarf shaman from Pathfinder) as much as the next person, for that reason - she exists in a ridiculous world of magic where sex-change magic is EASY and yet she uses the most complicated and difficult method of changing her sex to female when really her great quest to become female should be over by level 5, max. So she's stupid. But a farmer or even a typical merchant, probably doesn't have access to the magic or wealth needed.

A statistical minority is an statistical minority. more news at 11

>Nazi

You stop that shit right now.

If White Wolf has prove anything this is a cover for the quality of future content is about to take a nose dive.

>Why do you want most of the world to be the same?
Few people want to fucking portray things with which they're not comfortable or do not understand. It's draining and one always feels like one is stepping on eggshells to avoid being stereotypical or incorrect about these foreign things.
While many things this is fine with, like fictional factions or beliefs or species, the fact that some people might take offense to your poor portrayal, or may interpret you making the merchant Black as you trying to belittle the North African trading kingdoms by implying Black people can only be economically successful in imagination land, this niggling doubt and worry in the back of one's head can really fuck one up.

I'm not White, mind, I'm Middle Eastern, but this is why I for example am careful with introducing too many women in my stories (certainly not the 50/50 or close thereto ratio you'd expect), and rarely introduce homosexuals or similar.

I do enjoy making racist caricatures of White people though, sometimes. No one really has the balls to call me out for being racist against White people, and most think I'm joking.

I'm not. White people, most of you are wankers.

Posting a new thread with a screenshot of Kotaku or Twitter should get a 3-day ban, 7 if it's a repost.

Just like white people are overrepresented on those same form of media, even though america. You get 98% white people, maybe a black guy, and almost never a spanish/lation dude. Thats not even close to the American statistics.

>Implying dungeons and dragons wasn't already gay to begin with
Topkek

I know there's a larger one, and I request it for purpose of commiseration