/HHG/ Horus Heresy General

So?

I think this pic has been reposted so much that "Very recently" is no longer accurate. good job though

Those models look great. Why would you want to put Deathshroud in Cataphractii anyway? Don't you want to sweeping advance?

I rarely take new images and I needed to bump the thread. Thanks however.

>Why would you want to put Deathshroud in Cataphractii anyway?

That you have to ask GW about.

>Why would you want to put Deathshroud in Cataphractii anyway?
For the 4++? Just a thought.

>Why would you want to put Deathshroud in Cataphractii anyway?

Well, I got grave wardens and regular terminators in cataphractii, so having my deathshrouds in cataphractii as well wouldn't hurt. Just suck that I already made my tartaros praetor and I sort of don't want to take him apart now...

I'm working on an Emperor's Children Maru Skara list (Fulgrim combat resolution shenanigans) and was wondering what I should use for anti-vehicle. The main four ideas I had were
>Use 2 or 3 Sicarans and hope that I either get lucky or can afford to ignore any land raiders or spartans.
>Use a talon of cortus contemptors to assault enemy tanks
>Multiple small squads of outriders with meltabombs assault tanks and transports turn 2
>Say fuck it, give my vets meltabombs and get another squad of vets and maybe either some more tacticals or a unit of bikers kitted out for melee
Right now my basic list is
>Fulgrim
>3 Champions with terminator armour and phoenix spears (I know it isn't efficient but I like it for the theme of the elite of the Phoenix Guard)
>6 Phoenix Guards
>40 tactical marines divided into two squads
>20 Veterans with some amount of power swords
I can have three elites and/or fast attack units outflank on whatever turn I want and don't inherently need any of my current units to be the outflanking units

Fuck previous thread died with 217 posts, not even bump limit.
HHG is truly dead :(.

I mean you could start topics of debate or add content instead of complaining about /hhg/ being dead. You know, post a list, post some WIP, talk about tactics, fluff, etc. Or you could make one post about how /hhg/ is dead.

Ok
What do you think is true identity of AK?
Amendera Kendel?

Avtomat Kalashnikova.

HHG is dead. And I don't see why we're bothering to keep this general alive.

>that moment the /hhg/ has become the board equivalent of 40k Eldar, lamenting and bickering over the dying of their game

Well then, maybe I can help.

I really like the models for Horus Heresy, and despite having barely known 7th edition before the switch to 8th, I'm interested in starting an army/legion as a side project and finding or helping create a community for it.
So for why not discuss how to help people get interested in the game? Maybe summarize the differences between armies and legions for new players, maybe ways to do the game at a more 40k like scale while still being good, ways to convert 40k models to fit better.
Got a whole thread and community, have to be able to find something you all can discuss that isn't ADB or Inferno.

...

Might buy these to use for deathshroud, have to remove most of the tentacles however.

...

Summing up the armies I play or play against a lot
>Emperor's Children: Strike hard, strike fast, and pray to Slaanesh that they kill their opponent in the first turn of an assault. They are generally an assault unit that has a lot of advantages to combat resolution and reserves timing. If you want to pull off a flawless victory this is the legion to try, although if you fail you will probably get raped horribly.
>World Eaters: Just like the EC except you should run on the assumption that you will take losses. They aren't as mobile with as many reserve shenanigans as the EC but they are more survivable and hit hard, against guard style armies they are the hardest hitting army by far.
>Alpha Legion: Your army has access to a ton of special rules such as infiltrate and scouts which makes them extremely flexible, especially when combined with veterans' special rules.
>Iron Hands: Their tanks can buy autosimulcra and their infantry count enemy shooting a -1 strength making them essentially T 5 when being shot at. Seriously these guys are annoying to shoot at.
>Mechanicum Cybernetica: Lots of big scary monstrous creature robots with big guns or bit fists to punch things.
>Mechanicum Ordo Reductor: Crappy overpriced infantry but they can take 4 heavy support and 2 lord of war choices making them THE army of massive war machines and artillery.
>Imperial Militia (+1S, +1T, -1I): A massive horde of shitty space marines in armour worse than flak armour. Also their Ogryn are S/T 6 and the guy who plays this army gives them power mauls making them strength 8.
>Solar Auxilia: A lot of volkite weapons, also BS 5 tanks that can pump out 5 Str 7 and 6 Str 6 shots

Luna wolves here (yeah I know sons of Horus but prefer Luna wolves colors).

When pulled off correctly they're one of the best, when not they are quite average. Great terminators, great special rules.

Basically the gist is this: surprise, speed, aggression. Never forget those three things and you'll do better than worse.

Death dealers makes them effectively BS 5 at 12ish inches. This makes specia weapons very powerful up close. Merciless fighters means you'll be getting a lot of extra attacks in.

I really dig using a somewhat expensive reaver squad with jump packs, volkite chargers, and chain axes. Basically an insane number of st5 shots and attacks. I use them to hunt thallax, ursarax, vorax, scyllax, vanilla marine squads and support squads.

Make sure whatever your pointing you guys at they can over power. If it's "even" or a tough fight you're sending your guys into, don't do it. It will be a waste. You want to bully your opponent like a night lord but with better shooting better flexibility and better reserves.

Why do so few people go full beakie force? Is Mk VI not as popular at it once seemed?

In HH setting only raven guard and alpha legion had them.

BS. There is art of Iron Warriors and blood angels using MK VI.

I'm just going by what the forgeworld books say. A lot of players try to keep their army thematic and "historically accurate" and therefore don't typically include mkvi unless they're raven guard or alpha legion.

Nice. Dare I assume you're the Emperor's Children?
I ask for general overviews because sometimes you see just the individual rules and then don't necessarily see how they tie together into a playstyle. At least I do.
SoH/Luna Wolves were one of the forces I considered, how viable is it going with loads of Volkite? And do Tartaros Terminators work well with them?
I quite like MkVI, I would probably use a few suits for well equipped Vets or something, maybe some assaults.

They're okay at running volkite. The half range bs5 means you'll get a crap ton of hits but ails means you have to be CLOSE and ready to assault.

I think Tartaros could be quite good. I haven't used them but their relative speed as terminators could make them quite good up close.

Veterans and reavers are the soh bread and honey.

Very powerful pride of the legion org chart.

>talks mkvi
>posts mkv

a shit, A SHIT!!

Imperial Fists also obtained huge portions of MKVI after raiding the Mars armories, but are only really known for fielding MKVII en masse at the Siege of Terra.

Finally got around to painting my Caladius' Heavy Arachnus Blaze Cannon turrets so I could switch up my options.

Happy to be done with them since they were sitting on my desk for so long.

>Nice. Dare I assume you're the Emperor's Children?
EC and Solar Auxilia. Allied they provide a good hammer and anvil with the enemy breaking against the auxilia and attacked from the flanks by the EC.

However IMO the best way for you to choose a legion is to tell us what interests you the most (eg. tactics style, aesthetics, or fluff) and tell us what you would like (eg. fast and hard hitting or slow and nigh impossible to break for tactics). Also if you already have a 40k army you could always try test games with different rules. If you have Imperial Guard you can easily enough port them directly into 30k as Imperial Militia, or using some count as try out Solar Auxilia rules. If you have a space marine army you could field a practice army by reshuffling some squads (eg. combine two tactical squads and remove all special and heavy weapons and you have a 20ish man tactical blob).

So since SoH interest you if you have a 30k community in your area or even if a friend who is also interested you can play a game where your 40k Lamenters or whatever count as 30k SoH. If after a game or two you realize you don't like SoH and want to try them as say Imperial Fists just count them as Imperial Fists. One of the nice things about 30k is because the only factions are Guard, Guard +, Marines, Marines+, and Mechanicum, if you have a guard or any space marine army you can test out the game without proxying too much.

>I'm just going by what the forgeworld books say.

At the onset of the Heresy a ton of the suit and their production materials were evacuated from Mars to Terra, where production and development continued, culminating in the MkVII by the end of the Heresy. Alphas also evacuated some suits from Mars and through them some of the traitors got their hands on them.

There is nothing saying only RG and Alphas used them.

Might as well post my experimental Fulgrim bomb list

Emperor's Children 2500 Points
The Maru Skara
HQ
3x Champion: 85
>Tartaros Terminator Armour
>Phoenix Spear
>Sonic Shrieker
130*3=390 Points
_________________________
Elites
6 Phoenix Guards
>Grenade Harness
>Sonic Shriekers
330 Points

2x 10 Veterans (Weapon Masters)
>2 Heavy Chainswords
>5 Power Swords
220*2=440 Points
_________________________
Troops
20 Tactical Marines: 225 Points
>Swap bolters for chainswords

20 Tactical Marines: 225 Points
>Swap bolters for chainswords
_________________________
Fast Attack
2x 6 Outriders
>Sergeant
>3 Power Swords
>Meltabombs
255*2=510 Points
_________________________
Lord of War
Fulgrim: 380 Points

This is very much a test list since I rarely field death stars at this point level and never this big (almost half my points). Basic strategy is outriders and tacticals start on the table with everything else in reserve, Phoenix Guard is joined by the three champions and Fulgrim. Basic idea is everything rushes up the table turn 1, turn 2 the Fulgrim bomb and the vets outflank. Fulgrim gives +2 to combat resolution and being close to the phoenic guard increases that by +1 meaning the combined Fulgrim bomb should be able to inflict about 6 wounds on WS 5 3++ terminators on the turn they charge, combined with the +3 to combat resolution means they should be able to win the combat and break the terminators, and probably sweep them. The vets and outriders should likewise be able to deal with any 3+ units they encounter as long as they get the charge. My tactical marines should be able to deal with their counterparts outside of some exceptions even if they don't get the charge.

My main worry is that my only real anti-tank is my meltabomb outriders and if I am lucky with his attacks Fulgrim.

Thats clearly a beakie head with Mk V legs champ.

Ye, your anti tank is really weak. You should add a missile or lascannon team. Drop one unit of veterans maybe? Also, you should give your tac marine sergeant meltabombs.

What are UMs good at?
I'm all about having an even mix of tools on the field, all comers lists are my jam.

>You should add a missile or lascannon team
HWS are really overpriced. I was considering taking some real anti-tank but am unsure what would be better. My main three considerations are
>Cortus dreadnoughts with chainfists
>Sicaran battle tanks
>Sicaran venators
I would naturally lean towards the dreads since the list is already extremely melee oriented but I would prefer to be able to start killing tanks turn 1 if at all possible. Overall I think the sicaran battle tanks are better since they can provide some AA, are cheaper, and are better at killing light vehicles. Of course I always could go one battle tank one venator.

Since my outriders are already more expensive than my vets I think that I should probably drop a unit of outriders and maybe drop the heavy chainswords on the vets or something to free up some more points. If I drop both units of outriders I could buy three sicarans or more likely could buy two sicarans or a sicaran and a venator and give meltabombs to my tac sergeants and modify my veteran squads so I can have three vet squads with like 3 power swords each.

UM's basic rules focus more on cooperation than flexibility really, so if you have three units shooting at the same target they will do more damage than identical units from another army, the same is true of assaults. Their rite of war however gives you tactical flexibility during battle (as opposed to EC or Alpha Legion who give you options but they need to be selected before the battle). Their units don't have much in the way of a common theme but could often be considered knock offs of other legion units
Suzerains are your elites equivalents to palatine blades really, except while palatine blades hit really hard and die horribly in turn 2 of an assault Suzerains lack the same offensive capabilities of palatines but are always AP 2 and have an invul save. Overall they make a good unit it capture and hold objectives since they have implacable advance and charging them is an unpleasant proposition.

Locutarus are like templar brethren who give up WS 5 for jump packs (honestly a pretty good deal), and are pretty much 40k vanguard veterans with artificer armour. Overall a good unit but keep them away from elites with AP 2 weapons because any true elite units will kick their teeth in.

Fulmentarus are overpriced siege tyrants with BS 5 and more heavy weapon options. One thing to note the red book seems to imply (probably unintended) that the unit can all exchange their combi-bolters for combi-meltas for 5 points for the whole unit. So BS 5 combi-meltas for relatively cheap could make them worthwhile as a unit assuming that the assumed typo hasn't been FAQed somewhere.

As for wargear they are pretty standard, they can buy artificer armour that gives FnP and they have AP 2 power swords that wound on HIT rolls of 6. Despite all the talk of legatine axes being OP they are pretty run of the mill legion special weapons honestly certainly nothing compared to power glaives (which can be given to sergeants) and perdition blades.

>regular bodyguards
>more than two at any time
>more than 49 paces away from their Primarch
>they talk

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Look, I'm just trying to help answer the question and why players don't typically field mkvi. Because they were most commonly fielded by Raven guard and Alpha legion. Not because other legions didn't have examples.

So I'm thinking of starting a Word Bearers army with Betrayal at Calth for obvious reasons, but I'd like to jazz it up a bit with Chaos bitz. I was thinking of doing some themed squads of Terminators/Gal Vorbak and using the new 40k Nurgle Marines, assorted spare Tzeench bits and whatever Slaanesh stuff I can greenstuff up to make four squads of GV for each god. What would go well with that if I was to keep the symmetry going? Couple Vindicators and melee Dreadnoughts because I like the look of those, plus Tactical blobs. Feels like I should make some Chaotic apothecaries too.

Book 3, page 95.

Apparently at the time of istvaan the only legion listed as having units of mkvi (it was so new it wasn't even called mkvi yet) was the raven guard and the alpha legion.

>"The new armour, later dubbed 'Corvus' armour in honour of the Raven Guard, was placed into full scale production only a few months before the outbreak of Horus' rebellion"
-Book 3, pg. 95

>"Mark VI, which at that time was only just entering service across the Legions."
-Book 6, pg. 83

>"In the aftermath of the fall of Mars, during which the Imperial Fists were able to extricate stockpiles of the new Mark VI Legiones Astartes power armour, the Knights-Errant were equipped with the very finest examples of this class of armour"
-Book 6, pg. 212

And of course there's sources outside of FW.

It goes Speed Aggression Surprise. SAS.

This discussion has been had before. Forgeworld states that all legions have access to all marks. And mIII could be equipped with jump-packs

So contradictory evidence. Hence nobody wants to really commit to mkvi unless they're alpha legion or raven guard.

And just entering service across the legions probably meant not many deployed. Civil War breaks out early during production, I bet it interrupts production/distribution, again making it uncommon.

I'm not arguing it didn't exist in other legions. I'm just trying to explain why players are reluctant to field it if they're trying to keep their armies within a certain scope.

It's only contradictory if you take one throwaway line about Isstvan as gospel and ignore everything else.

I thought HH players were suppose to be old grognards who were really into the timeline and all that shit. Now it seems like they're all just kids who only know the FW books and are really carnac about them.

>the evidence I like is real while the evidence I don't like is throwaway

carnac/10

Solid counter point there.

Imagine if there was 2 Carnacs and they were have an argue.

>line line of fluff trumps everything else, even newer sources, so much that you can't even consider them
>not carnac

Emperor's Children 2500 Points
The Maru Skara
HQ
3x Champion: 85
>Tartaros Terminator Armour
>Phoenix Spear
>Sonic Shrieker
130*3=390 Points
_________________________
Elites
6 Phoenix Guards
>Grenade Harness
>Sonic Shriekers
330 Points

3x 10 Veterans (Weapon Masters)
>2 Power Swords
>Phoenix Spear
195*3=585 Points
_________________________
Troops
2x 20 Tactical Marines
>Meltabombs on Sergeant
>Swap bolters for chainswords
230*2=460 Points
_________________________
Heavy Support
Sicaran Venator: 190 Points

Sicaran Battle Tank: 165 Points
_________________________
Lord of War
Fulgrim: 380 Points

I've modified my list to give it more anti-tank and I feel like what I have is mostly adequate. Venator can kill heavy vehicles and more importantly keep stuff like super heavies from shooting my army while they charge up the table, the Sicaran should be able to deal with light vehicles and transports well enough and tactical sergeants and Fulgrim could act as anti-tank in a pinch and him or any of the champions could split off from their unit to take out a rhino or something weak like that.

Since I now have four units that I would like to outflank my thoughts were to leave one of the veteran squads on the table at the start and have it rush up the table. My other ideas were to start with Fulgrim and co. on the tabl and put all the vets in reserves or to just scrap a veterans squad, buy another sicaran and give my remaining vet squads more power weapons (I could give each squad five power swords).

As for Fulgrim's warlord trait my main considerations were Night Attacker, Princeps of Deceit, and Child of Terra. Paladin of glory while nifty is probably excessive considering I am already getting +2 to combat resolution army wide and +3 within 6" of Fulgrim's escorts and I don't see much threat of losing combats so horribly that I need +4 to win.

Anyone used regular speeders? I was thinking 3 with HBs and havoc launchers.

Sounds like a good idea, just don't use them in a pure infantry list or they will get shot down before they can actually do anything.

They are very popular with Graviton Guns. A squadron is a decent alternative to Lightnings for dedicated Spartan-hunting.
Difference is obviously that the Lightning blows all it's power in one attack run while the Speeders can chip away every turn, at the expense of being more exposed to firepower.

Biggest turnoff is the lack of 30k models, as your pic highlights.

Even if they had access to them it doesn't mean they were widespread and it is largely inaccurate to field large amounts of specific armour in the "incorrect" legion. FW constantly emphasizes how specific forces had more widespread access to certain equipment.

Unless each legion had fewer than, like, 50 of the mark in question it doesn't matter on our scale. It's not like you have thousands of marines on the tabletop.

So, what constitutes as "large amounts"? Give us a number. Stop beating around the bush for the sake of shitting on someone doing something you don't like, and give us the amount of "wrong" suits in the "wrong" legion. I'm dying to hear.

Continuing this conversation, what's a way to get people interested in HH with the hopes of making a community for the game if there's not one around?
I imagine the game doesn't really work at kill team level?

The Raven Guard and Alpha Legion are the only legions that used them _in large quantities_. Most of our armies are small enough that you can use them elsewhere.

The Visions of Heresy art had an Iron Warrior in Mk VI because no one really thought about armor mark distribution at the time (2004 or so, shortly before the Black Library series and 8 years before Forge World jumped in). FW came up with a solution by saying that every legion got some examples for testing, and the Iron Warriors got a fairly large number (more than most, it sounds like). As a whole, they didn't like them. Doesn't mean they threw them out. And if another legion only received 50 to test, well, it's easy to make a 3000pt army with fewer than 50 power armored dudes.

There was also a lot of looting during the Heresy.

The Imperial Fists recovered a lot of Mk VI armor from Mars before it fell, and gave a lot of it to Corax when he visited Terra after Isstvan V. What does "a lot" mean? No one knows, so feel free to pass it out to the Fists, Scars, and Blood Angels for the Siege.

No one's going to let chainsword-weilding tactiblobs get within charge range. I worry about your veterans too, despite Outflank.

You may need anti-air and more anti-tank, too. Could one veteran squad have melta-things?

There's no contradiction. The legions were starting to receive Mk VI suits but hadn't formally re-equipped any units with them yet, other than the RG and AL.

If we're winning the current war (the Great Crusade), everything's looking positive, and I'm starting to get a new experimental suit, I'm going to wait until I have a lot of spare parts and some dudes have trained on it before telling those dudes to swap out their current gear for the new stuff.

>no one really thought about armor mark distribution at the time

Even in RT it said that MkVI was pressed into service early in the Heresy and that traitors got it through Alpha Legion.

>every legion got some examples for testing

Before the Heresy, though large scale testing was conducted by RG, and they made such good work of it that the suits were put into mass production before the outbreak of the Heresy.

This whole thing is like people losing their shit if someone runs an Iron Hands recon army, DG assault marines or terminator and tank heavy RG. Nobody can come up with a reason why those legions couldn't have those things (or why FW hasn't seen fit to deny those units), yet have to object to it because "muh feels" or something. It's like being in a cult.

The podcasts suggest that it's going pretty well. 30k events are still growing, especially those that are 'narrative' events.

I haven't seen 30k Kill Team sort of games, but a lot of people play Zone Mortalis at 750-1250 points (there are podcast episodes dedicated to creating boards on the cheap - the Eye of Horus had one about terrain, for example) and Centurion (infantry and dreadnoughts) at ~1400 points.

Betrayal at Calth gives you at least 1,000 points and you can probably stretch it to nearly 1,500 with some effort. Burning at Prospero is 600 points in the worst case (if you don't use the legion-specific characters or Talons of the Emperor) but you can get close to 1,500 points out of it iirc.

Mechanicum don't do well in Zone Mortalis do they?

So how long were you planning on sitting on those suits? How many years into the Heresy can we expect to start seeing MkVI in such numbers that people won't "REEEE" when you field some? Can we have more than a unit by the time Horus is nuking Terra?

>This whole thing is like people losing their shit if someone runs an Iron Hands recon army, DG assault marines or terminator and tank heavy RG. Nobody can come up with a reason why those legions couldn't have those things (or why FW hasn't seen fit to deny those units), yet have to object to it because "muh feels" or something. It's like being in a cult.

I get why it happens - legions DO have preferences and predilections, and most of us will only build one army for any given legion so we don't want to do the weirdoes doing their own thing. You miss out on the overall character of the legion, not to mention their special rules.

But you're right, every legion did have to do a little bit of everything. They also had inductees from a wide variety of places. Chris Wraight just wrote a short story, Restorer, in which a Chogorian travels to the homeland of a Terran WS and starts to understand why that guy's philosophy of war was so different from his own. (I can't say that it's worth the money given how short it is, unless you're a big fan of that story arc like me.) The legions weren't monolithic.

Zone Mortalis is a good shout.
Alternatively, could look into an Escalation campaign. Start out at 500-1000pts with some houserules about army composition, and slowly grow out. Split a BaC or two between friends and it's easily affordable.
I think Book 3 has a 'Victory is Vengeance' campaign which might be appropriate as well.

I think there is justification to run almost any army for any Legion. Rites of War are generic for a reason. Even if they aren't the standard approach, every Legion could and should engage in any theatre of war with a full armoury at their disposal.
I find it particularly irritating that the Raven Guard have a limitation on vehicles for exactly this reason. It doesn't fit the fluff of Pre-Istvann, and it's not really a balancing factor because nobody would use RG to run a tank list.
It just serves to limit what I can play with. I understand the need for a Legion drawback, but limiting unit access is a mistake.

> Blood Angels: 36%

Is this some kind of meme? What the fuck is going on to make them so popular?
I can easily imagine Alphas and Iron to be at the top, but that whole chart looks totally fucked.
Funny that the bottom 6 are all Loyalists though.

During the late Great Crusade I'd probably sit on them for a while. Maybe just give them to Seekers. But as soon as I hear about Isstvan V (assuming I wasn’t there), it’s time to activate *everything*.

So yeah, a little surprised we haven’t seen more Mk VI in the black books. Though only Books 4 and 6 have taken us beyond the start of the Heresy, and Book 4 wasn't really about space marines.

>what's a way to get people interested in HH with the hopes of making a community for the game if there's not one around?
Assuming the people you are trying to get already play 40k let them use their current army for practice games while they build their heresy army. Marine armies keep the same core units and Imperial Militia is just guard with 4th edition style doctrines except more excessive and with access to super heavy tanks.

However kill team should still work as the core system is the same as 6th and 7th edition 40k and the core units are mostly the same as those found in 40k.

>we don't want to do the weirdoes doing their own thing

They're not there to appease people's autism. If it's fluffy, then let them do it. Legions might have had their preferences, but they don't conquer the galaxy with an army that can only do one thing. They're not the Imperial Guard. Even the dumbest primarch must know that neglecting your recon elements, armoured support, artillery, etc. will not bode well on the long run.

>You miss out on the overall character of the legion, not to mention their special rules.

Maybe someone just likes different elements of the same force. You already showed how there's even official fluff supporting divergent things. Surely people like to explore those more than just making another poison huffer DG, full daemon WB, or memetic AL army?

The tac blobs have a bit of extra forward movement due to open blade which gives them +1" to move and run distances on turn 1 plus they roll 2 pick highest for run distances helping them out a bit. Statistically speaking my tactical squads should be able to move up to 14" on turn 1 or more likely about 10-12" on average meaning turn 2 they should move another 6 inches plus have the 2d6 for charging. Assuming averages for distance rolls they should be able to reach units 25 inches away by turn 2.

As for the outflanking units I've never had trouble getting into charge range with the outflanking units especially when I take three so that odds are at least one will end up on a favorable table edge. However, Fulgrim does allow for some tactical flexibility so I could give him the void walker warlord trait and give a veteran squad deepstrike to increase the odds of a turn 3 assault. Also consider the fact that I get +2 to combat resolution across my army and an extra +1 (or 2 if I want to give Fulgrim a specific warlord trait) and I strike first on the charge and add d3 to sweeping advance rolls. Pretty much anything my vets or terminators charge will die that turn if it isn't fearless since I get +2 to combat resolution and am pretty likely to sweep them.

I doubt meltabombs would be feasible for my vets due to the cost and I tend to dislike meltabombs for anti-tank especially on dedicated melee units who I would rather have charging infantry that wasting time killing tanks and transports. As I said if I need more AT I would rather just drop a vet squad and buy another vehicle such as a sicaran or venator I would lean towards the sicaran since they are better for eating transports and are cheaper. The only reason I see a need to use a venator is against spartans or land raiders, krak grenades should be enough against most conventional tanks as should 6 str 7 rending shots.

>During the late Great Crusade

You're an optimist, if you think your troops will last for years without bad enough losses that you need to break the seal on those MkVIs. What about MkVs? Are you going to break in those over MkVIs?

These new models make me glad that I stopped with 40k alltogether after the gathering shitstorm.

Mk VI wasn't THAT widely produced during the Heresy though. Sure it existed, and sure it was produced but most units didn't have a bunch of Mk VI suits sitting in storage nor did they find a warehouse of them sitting around. The way I do my EC
>Elites get Mk IV (they get dibs on the new shit)
>Grunts get Mk II (they get the leftovers)
>Anyone with hardened armour gets Mk III (since Mk III is the heaviest)
>Scouts prefer Mk VI but my army doesn't have any so moot point (Mk VI is one of the lighter models and has a better sensor suite)
>Mk V is used as a last resort armour and while canonically I probably should have some suits I haven't made any yet since Mk V doesn't feel very EC
>Mk VII would just be generic armour for regular marines but my army doesn't have any so moot point

Hey guys, how much do Chainaxes cost for World Eaters?

0 points, the rulebook is pretty clear on that.

A Despoiler is already charging you down with 5 S6/AP4 attacks. Is the Bolter really worth arguing about at this point? In what situation is firing a Bolter worth not-Running or Charging?

RaW it's probably still free, but FWs response to this stuff is normally 'Stop being a cunt, of course not'.
Alternatively, just field Veterans and dodge the question entirely.

>wasn't THAT widely produced during the Heresy though

What was? MkIV stopped being made prior to the Heresy and the MkVI (and VII) were planned to replace it. MkII was way too time consuming to make and maintain and MkIII was a specialist suit. MkV was mostly made when no other option was available.

>Mk V doesn't feel very EC
>mfw they're not breasts, they're molecular bonding studs

Where is his head from user? Looks great

If only we'd realized that 'joke' episode was actually a mission statement.

>If it's fluffy, then let them do it.
That's what we're debating, isn't it - what does fluffy mean? It's reasonable to assume that the White Scars had techmarines, praevians, and attached cybernetica maniples, but is it fluffy to make a WS army full of them? It almost certainly happened at some point during the Heresy, but it doesn't portray the general preferences of the legion. Which is more important?

I was thinking combi-meltas, but point taken. I just wish the open blade movement bonus was better. The Space Wolves get a better one.

I'd only start taking Venators and other tanks if you also put your marines in Rhinos. Then you've got enough vehicles driving around that some of them will survive to fulfill their mission.

What do you guys think of Betrayal at Calth? I bought it just for the miniatures first but looking at the rules and trying a bit of it, it seems pretty fun

I think you are literally the first person to even read the BaC rulebook rather than use the box for FW-fodder.

It's standard procedure for new equipment. Even during the Battle of the Bulge, the Allies didn't have access to their newest tanks that had just entered production because crews were learning how to use them in England. You don't do what Hitler did when he rushed Panthers to Kursk and most of them broke down.

The legionnaires were all talking about the Great Crusade as something that was winding down, all but won. It wasn't high-intensity enough that you'd want to rush training and not wait for spare parts to pile up.

We don't really have details. All we know is that a small amount went out before the war started, and Mars did have stockpiles for the Imperial Fists to recover. Maybe the only facilities that had built thousands of Mk VI suits were on Mars and wherever the Alpha Legion was getting them, so other legions had only a company's worth of suits or less. That's what I assume happened.

Even the Raven Guard didn't start with a very large number... but most of those suits ended up in Traitor hands after Isstvan V.

Most people around here require you to actually take a chainsword/close combat weapon before you can upgrade it to a chainaxe for no additional cost (as opposed to "having access" to a chainsword without exercising that option). That means that they're not free for tactical support marines, who have to pay +2 points for the chainsword/ccw. Same if you want to keep the bolters on your tactical marines and also take a chainaxe (but it would be free if you're willing to swap your bolter for a bolt pistol).

...

see

>What was?
MK V mostly. During Heresy there were problems with supplies and Legions must somehow replace their losses.
Also they just repair destroyed armours.

>what does fluffy mean

It's in the fluff?