ITT

Skullbone
Skullbone

ITT: Post an unpopular opinion you have about Veeky Forums related things

All urls found in this thread:
https://forum.rpg.net/forumdisplay.php?68-Roleplaying-Actual-Play
AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

I hate aliens in science fiction
I hate magic in science fiction
I hate teleports in science fiction
I hate FTL in science fiction
I hate AI in science fiction
I like science fiction

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

Being critical of games you like is a sign of actually understanding them. Zealous fanboyism and defence of your preferred games just makes you seem pathetic and childish.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@AwesomeTucker
You like your idea of what sci fi should be, but not what sci fi is.

Snarelure
Snarelure

I really do think quests should be allowed on /tg/again.

Evilember
Evilember

@Skullbone
Shadowrun has too many things throwed into the setting for it own good. A real-world cyberpunk with magic and fantasy races? Thanks, I'll pass. I hardly see any difference between it and CthulhuTech, setting-wise.

@AwesomeTucker
/thread

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Skullbone
I think a system should have ease of homebrew as one of it's core design philosophies.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@Ignoramus
Zealous fanboyism and defence of your preferred games just makes you seem pathetic and childish.
...and does a great disservice to your preferred games and their creators in many cases.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

We should have the same attitude to RPGs that we have to BGs. Which also means that yes, most games CAN have an "objective" value (or lack thereof), aside from personal preferences.

GM is everything but a god. Everyone should use more GM-less games, actually.

There is still a severe lack of "realistic" (no magic, no fantasy) settings, tough it's not really a RPG problem.

The focus on combat is a cancer in... well, not any RPG, but most of them.

L5R is beyond terrible. An insult to the intelligence of whoever plays it and has a cursory understanding of what it tries to emulate.

@Ignoramus

I agree.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@Snarelure
He said Veeky Forums related things, quests aren't Veeky Forums related.

@Skullbone
3.x is the worst version D&D.
BECMI is the best version of D&D
Race as class is fine
40k (both the setting and game) is shit

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

Classes are a gameplay abstraction
A multiclassed character isn't literally a Fighter who then spent 2 years in college to become a wizard, and then 4 years at a monastery to become a Monk; he's an adventurer whose abilities have manifested in a way that makes him somewhere between a Fighter, wizard and monk.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@SomethingNew

It's depressing that's unpopular as it is. It isn't really an opinion, either. It's a rational way of interpreting the abstraction a class based system presents.

Sadly, a lot of people are really, really bad at handling abstraction. Just look at all the idiots who insist HP is meat points.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@AwesomeTucker
The focus on combat is a cancer in... well, not any RPG, but most of them.
Not focusing on some specific asset is escapism and there's not a single reason to support a hobby for a bunch of omega-males and otherkins just how it always ment to be, "thank you" "nerdirasasion"

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

i hate xp points

everyone treats like they're fucking silver coins or some shit that you character can just aquire and is totally aware of this abstract representation of character growth

TreeEater
TreeEater

@PackManBrainlure
What is constitution, then?

RavySnake
RavySnake

@AwesomeTucker

Add some.

Classes are a fake necessity for bainlets without creativity. Races, even more, tough for other reasons.

Randomizers aren't that necessary either.

Worldbuilding in the vast, vast majority of cases is better when done at the table.

Cyberpunk, played straight, makes no sense in 2017. Zero, nada, nihil.

Call of Chtulhu has zero connection to HPL or to decent games.

Generally in a party is a good idea to have a woman at least.

@Evil_kitten

What?

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@New_Cliche
quests aren't Veeky Forums related
Hi newfag
Bye newfag

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@New_Cliche
3.x is the worst version D&D.
Unpopular
Nigga that is the most popular opinion of all time on Veeky Forums

Booteefool
Booteefool

I have met exactly two people who roleplay, and everyone else is playing an elaborate board game.

farquit
farquit

@TreeEater

An abstractws value of your general physical fitness and endurance?

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

I think that different roleplaying games often necessarily require different approaches and playstyles, and not there is no single universally correct way to play RPGs.

Just because Dungeon World's backpack works for Dungeon World doesn't mean that every game should do it, and likewise just because it wouldn't work in your favorite game doesn't make it a bad concept.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Gigastrength
I hate when players in the middle of a scenario start rising shit from 0, "because I have spare points".
GMs who allow this shit should stop running games.

How the fuck you suddenly learned "Lore: Legends (2)", aside the fact you had 30 spare points, so decided to learn the skill out of the blue, sensing legends might be useful in a campaign about fighting local ancient evil?!

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Skullbone
I fucking hate beyond all measure how people use magic as a fixall.
Moral ambiguity? Magic!
My waifu is an embodiment of evil? Magic!
Physical limitations? Magic!
Plot hole? Magic!
I should be able to study magic and do anything without any limits and do things better than the person who trained to do them because MAGIIIIC
Fucking end me.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Booteefool

And you know what is REALLY unpopular?

Saying that the game makes the roleplayer. Well, nudges toward a certain direction.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Booteefool
I never met a releplayer, period.

Maybe that comes from lack of experience (playing for just 3 years, two of which with the same grouo of people), but in all the following groups nobody roleplays either. It completely blocks me, because nobody cares when I even try and they actively give me shit for "wasting time".
Feels bad, man.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@farquit
fitness and endurance
So,abstract meat points.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@RavySnake

There is value in classes, IMO, but it's one most systems fail to make use of.

A class lets you define the parameters an ability or effect exists within, creating a closed system where you can be relatively certain of the relevant stat values and ability synergies.

This lets you give classes effects and abilities that, in a classless system, would require specific rulings that you can't combine x with y and various other unintuitive things, to the point that a lot of systems rightly avoid doing so.

Classes can also let you create complex, flavourful and fun sets of mechanics all designed to work together, as opposed to classless systems where, generally, you need to design with open synergy in mind.

I enjoy both, although as I said very, very few games actually make use of the advantages classes can provide.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@New_Cliche

...No?

MPmaster
MPmaster

I think that you don't have to be some obsessed method actor or purposefully make suboptimal choices to be considered a "roleplayer"; simply making decisions for your character is enough.

farquit
farquit

@Evil_kitten
I can't even tell what you wrote, let alone what you meant.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@MPmaster
But that's a widely accepted stance for past 20 years, user. 90s and goth fad are over for quite a while.

Evilember
Evilember

@Fried_Sushi
@Fried_Sushi

No, no, I'm not saying classes are a bad idea per se. Hell, I'm a PBTA fanboy.

I'm saying that if you as a player need classes stereotypes everytime... there is a problem.

and in general people should really play more diverse games in this regard, for example games where there are no real mechanical choices to do at character building

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@cum2soon
See I like you, you get my frustration with this asinine bullshit, its like that one skeleton Resurrection-crushing machine thing from that one supplement i can never remember the name of it just pisses me off thinking about it.

hurr durr xp points generator by turning a fucking crank on a box

@iluvmen
fucking too right mate, Limit your god damn magic otherwise there is no point to be anything but a fucking wizard

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

You can't have a good session without the DM as an adversarial player. There's a place for neutral GM referees too, but without that pressure the potential/weakness|peak/trough archetypes shit all over both the consistent archetypes and the game itself, you may as well do improv theater.

RavySnake
RavySnake

This board was better when it had Quests and Weekend Smut Threads/ Erotic Fiction General.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@kizzmybutt
I'm not sure what you meant to say there.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Skullbone
4e is my favourite system of all time and pretty much everyone I've ever played a TTRPG with thinks I'm a retard because of it.

They're not wrong but they won't even hear me out about why I enjoy it.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

I hope no one says that they like FATAL. Also, Drizzt needs more stories.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@RumChicken

It's just a generic 'My way of playing is the one true way' bullshit statement.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@RumChicken
Consider spending your time on ESL classes rather than Veeky Forums.

@Supergrass
20 years of "no we're not like Basic D&D this is collaborative storytelling remember you're there to adjucate and not hurt player fee-fees!" Ironclad Rules in manuals
"eh just an opinion"
marginal disagreement
"YOU ABSOLUTIST REEEEEEEEEEE"

t. power-fantasy snowflake

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Stupidasole
Drizzt needs more stories.

I won't argue with this, but at the same time I worry it might lead to a resurgence in Drizzt clones.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@VisualMaster
damned if you do...damned if you don't user

also fuck it, if people want to play drizzit well by all means let them play. if they are not being insufferable douche canoes about it then whats the problem?

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@Stupidasole
my nigga

@VisualMaster
It's been so long that coldsteel and sephiroth have surely saturated the niche?

likme
likme

@Snarelure
I really do think quests should be allowed on Veeky Forums again.

That's a pretty popular opinion, though.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@AwesomeTucker
I hate AI in science fiction
This seems out of place

RumChicken
RumChicken

Anime characters are often a pretty good concept, and people should fuss way less about them.
tough there are problems like originality and powers, but not as many with mary sues and magical realms

Speaking of Japan, it's a country with a good number of decent+ games, but you generally need to check out the most unusual ones.

Scifi is an sorry state in RPGs. Too many generalistic bullshit space opera that don't really even go to the origins of the thing.
there are many good scifi rpgs, but not played that much

Erotic themes in RPG can be done well.

@kizzmybutt

I played not only many games without "villains", but tons of GMless games, actually. And oddly enough, proper improv theater. Zero connection.

@VisualMaster

I dunno. Drizzt at this point is kinda of a thing of the past. Problem is he paved the way to the subversion of evil races as a good concept of a character per se, that might return, I guess.
mfw I actually like the orcs as PCs in 5th, the idea that they kinda have a voice in their head prompting them to be savages

DeathDog
DeathDog

@kizzmybutt
Sup gramps. How was your hibernation for past 40 years?

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@StonedTime
Exactly. Sometimes I think RPGS are actively designed to make roleplay difficult, as you are replaying a few pieces of fiction over and over again.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Dreamworx

...What?

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@MPmaster
You aren't playing a role though, you are playing a game at that point.

massdebater
massdebater

@haveahappyday

You can do both. They're called Roleplaying Games.

likme
likme

@RumChicken
What are some Japanese games that you recommend?

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@DeathDog
Blissfully "oh no casters are dominant because we hand out a full rest after every encounter, how do we fix this? I guess our only option is to make everyone a caster"-free. How about yours? Oh, full of that? That's too bad.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

Rolling for social interactions without even trying to roleplay through them and expecting from GM to flat-out cut the chase and just give you all the important details OoC is a huge neon sign saying "I don't really care about the scenario or the game itself".

Skullbone
Skullbone

@StonedTime
I love 4e, it is a great tabletop game and much more honest with its goals than most fantasy rpgs. It us kind of the Star craft 2 of board games, all of the focus was on balance and a clear aesthetic but it never really took off wits the imagination.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

STOP MAKING ME ROLE WHEN WE ARE NOT IN A STRESSFUL SITUATION

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Poker_Star

Wow. You really are just all the cliches, huh?

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@Skullbone
psionics or any sort of psychic ability have no place in a fantasy setting

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Poker_Star
The fuck you are even writing about?

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Poker_Star
oh lord that brings out all of my HATE I can not stand people who do that.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@RavySnake
i clicked an "unpopular opinions" thread
REEEEEEEEE SOMEONE DISAGREES WITH MY POWER FANTASY TIME TO WHINE

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@Boy_vs_Girl
Most RPGs are designed around fulfilling a few basic archetypes, and the prole I play with never get beyond them. One guy is always a sorcerer, another is always a fighter, and another is always a rogue. In sci-find you get the same "we are playing Dune, Star Wars or Star Trek" with no deviation.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Ignoramus
If only more people got this.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@Ignoramus
Complains about REEEE replies
By making constant REEEE posts

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@Emberfire
potential/weakness|peak/trough
This isn't english, user.

farquit
farquit

@massdebater
And you just happen to be playing the role of the nerdy kid playing a game.

5mileys
5mileys

@Skullbone
I think some people need to chill out.

takes2long
takes2long

@Snarelure
I agree. I rarely looked at quest threads, but I never understood why people hated them or why they didn't belong.

Methshot
Methshot

@likme

Tenra, Golden Sky Stories. Maid and Witch Quest possibly but I didn't play them.

on the contrary I'm astonished by how Veeky Forums seems to like Ryuutama. Seems really overbloated and unoriginal. I don't think Kamigakari seems that great either but I didn't even read it

@Fried_Sushi

It depends on the game tough (no, not on the setting, on the game). It's not really that hard do space opera with original motivations for the characters, for example.

WebTool
WebTool

@Poker_Star
Playing DnD this hard.

Spamalot
Spamalot

There's nothing inherently desirable about a bell curve, nor about having high-granularity for determining probabilities.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Skullbone
I wish people here were more chill or just aloof instead of the endless chorus of autistic sperging that's everywhere these days.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@Skullbone
Fuck coasters.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Poker_Star
1986+31
Still playing D&D at all

SniperGod
SniperGod

@AwesomeTucker
I agree on all points except AI, but I absolutely hate the AI turning evil and trying to kill humanity.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

I really don't like liches. I feel like they're overused, probably because they are NEETs of the undead world, so naturally Veeky Forums identifies with them.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Skullbone
I hate games that are just dungeons and dragons with different aesthetics. They claim to be a one setting, but once you start it is the same old shit you've seen a hundred times with all the flavor and uniqueness of the setting drowned out. And in a lot of cases, they are the only version of that setting anyone ever wants to play.

Deadlands
Gamma World
and chief among them, Shadowrun

I loathe these games, because they take a genre I love and drain everything I like out of it to be replaced with DnD crap.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@TreeEater
@farquit
We we take Constitution to its most literal definition, "the stuff you're made of", it can easily be interpreted to mean meat, but I like to think that definition also encompasses mettle.

JunkTop
JunkTop

I prefer AoS to WHFB...

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@RumChicken

...How is Shadowrun anything like D&D, beyond aesthetic? Like, there are surface level similarities, but in terms of how things actually work and relate to each other, as well as the intended role and playstyle of the PCs, is completely different.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@Ignoramus
I'd offer a second, related point: whinging endlessly about a minor issue in a game makes you look like a childish dipshit.

King_Martha
King_Martha

I unironically thing the fuss about the sexualization of gaming images is mostly right. Hell, I even think it means that it's difficult to portrary "evil" sex (which is a pretty huge thematic in fantasy)

@hairygrape

This I can't believe.

@TurtleCat

I always pictured liches having an intense unlife of studying, honestly.

@RumChicken

This. Tough it's more an inherent problem with mechanics.

5mileys
5mileys

@RumChicken
I remember when I heard about Deadlands for the first time. Then I've started playing it. Then to my horror I've realised it's D&D, but with different names and set in the Wild West. Never felt this level of disappointment when it comes to TTRPG.

idontknow
idontknow

@Soft_member
Me too user, me too.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

With a proper degrees of success/failure system, combat can and should be boiled down to a single roll and then just treated as another obstacle. This would clear out he most cancerous segment of gaming and make the notion of some people being good at combat and others not an acceptable option.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Nude_Bikergirl

But that's so subjective it provides no real value or basis for action, beyond giving people an easy way to dismiss criticism without actually addressing it.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@Raving_Cute
If you read his post carefully, you would realise his entire points is about aesthetics

Flameblow
Flameblow

@King_Martha
I think it's really rare for the right note (all archetypes need love, and tiddy is also an archetype) to be hit. The rest on all sides is "only what I like is good" autism, from any direction.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

old people, hipsters, and the people conditioned to agree with them make up enough of the tabletop RPG players that their collective "worse is better" mentality are the cause of the decrease in RPG publications.

Also, the effect that the above has can be described in a nutshell by the entire pathfinder development process.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@TreeEater

But that's my point. He claims Shadowrun is D&D with a different aesthetic, but the only similarity I can see is aspects of the aesthetic.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@kizzmybutt

This is just as dumb as the comment earlier. Badwrongfun arguments are always bad.

Having a playstyle and preference is fine, acting as though having one makes you better than people who disagree with you just makes you an asshole.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@5mileys
What do you mean?

@Raving_Cute
You play a group of species-mixed misfits, including a fighter, a specialist or two, and a magic user and enter what is effectively a dungeon full of traps and monsters to beat or sneak your way through it with the purpose of gaining treasure that you'll spend on better loot to do the same thing over again.

Imagine a D&D campaign where you're raiding noble villas and temples and such rather than shit out in the wilderness.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Skullbone
A sandbox is not necessarily the opposite of a railroad, and exists based on whether or not the PCs are primarily active as opposed to reactive, not how much choice the GM gives them. It is theoretically possible (albeit stupid) to have a sandbox-railroad game.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@TalkBomber

What is the worse is better mentality?

Also, are wer sure there are less publications now?

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@Spamalot
I actually agree with this. I particularly like the good ol' d20 or d100 because you can go way above or below what you 'should', which makes for interesting situations, be it great success or an unexpected challenge.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@Gigastrength
Life is full of subjectivity and uncertainty, being able to handle that is part of being an adult.

A person that criticizes their game is in the right, a guy that starts shit over minor points rather than actually trying to improve a game is an asshole.

girlDog
girlDog

@GoogleCat

...And none of that is anything to do with why the two games are completely different?

askme
askme

@Ignoramus
You don't have to agree with me, but it'd be nice if we can at least understand each other.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Skullbone
3.X and 5e are practically indistinguishable from each other they're so similar.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

Enjoyment and quality are not synonymous.

It's actually really baffling how people don't get this

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

I vastly prefer games where all the PCs are young or even outright children. I think coming-of-age stories are better than the gonzo shit I usually end up having to play along with.

I don't like lolis, though. But they're a net good, since they let me screen out the pedophiles more easily.

Techpill
Techpill

@girlDog
But they're not. They're the same basic shit with different gear and trappings.

Methshot
Methshot

@GoogleCat
That's only like the professional/legend runner starts. Most of the stuff that's written is aimed at street scum from a thematic point of view, where you're trying to be able to afford food and rent, not upgrading your shit. Thematically it -can- be like D&D, but most of the stuff that's written is for something very different.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@Booteefool
@StonedTime
@Dreamworx
D&D is unintentionally designed to make the RP an unintuitive part of the game for new players.
There are several other systems that actually does a good job at making the RP an accessible part of the experience.

Emberburn
Emberburn

GURPS is a very good RPG.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Skullbone
Whether referring strictly to Paladins or just Lawful Good characters in general, I hate the argument that "a true LG character always chooses to be Good rather than Lawful when they must make a choice between the two." It turns the LG alignment into someone who wants to play a Neutral Good character but with the assumed moral superiority that comes with being a LG. Defaulting purely to being Good every time the Law - whichever Law it actually is (law of the land, your oath, your creed, etc.) - completely bypasses the potential for deeper character building and growth where the person in question might have to face an actual serious moral dilemma by pulling some flowchart-esque response out of there ass where every path in question ends in "When in doubt Good it out". A Paladin or Knight who may have a crisis of faith when they have to decide between doing the action they perceive as good or the action they perceive as in line with their God's Holy Decree or their King's Royal Order who just shrugs their shoulders and says "nah fuck'em" has become the cliche equivalent to the "dickass rogue who's clearly just going to kill someone in their sleep and take their shit and ruin the game for everyone" to me, and it annoys me that people think it's the proper way to play LG, instead of trying to experience the potential for a different dynamic of character.
giving a shit about alignments
Yeah, I know, it's my fault.

eGremlin
eGremlin

@takes2long
I agree. I rarely looked at quest threads, but I never understood why people hated them or why they didn't belong.

The first few years, only a couple of dedicated trolls hated quests, mainly because other people enjoyed them and ignored the trolls when they tried to start shit. After the concept got popular and people on other boards started making their own quests, people on /a/ complained about them enough that moot moved all the /a/ quests onto Veeky Forums. Unfortunately, most of the /a/ quests were really, really bad and the influx caused a lot of /a/ssholes who didn't actually play Veeky Forums stuff to start spamming anime on this board. The typical /a/ quest was a railroad race to acquire the most waifus, and the "choices" the quest-runners gave were usually meaningless because of said railroad.

It was after all the shitty /a/ quests were pushed onto Veeky Forums that the antiquestfags really started making noise. Unfortunate, because now every quest gets strawmanned as Loli Harem Builder Quest #CVXMMMVI.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@Techpill

But they aren't at all.

In D&D you're heroes, going off on adventures. The goals are often personally or compassionately motivated, generally simple and not requiring that much in the way of prep or research. You just go in and do it because you're heroic types. You might bring a few items along, but legwork is not generally a thing in D&D.

Meanwhile, legwork is a huge chunk of the game in Shadowrun. It's fundamentally a heist game. The PC's are people who are fundamentally financially motivated, taking actions to advance the agendas of others with a certain expectation of professionalism and discretion.

The differences go beyond what you can quickly describe, to the point I find it difficult to understand the argument that they're somehow the same in all but the most gross, broad strokes.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@Snarelure
Thing is - I never played D&D in my entire life. I once saw people playing and that's my entire experience with D&D.
I've been through a rule-light with zero RP and I played FATE recently (since it's supposedly a game almost entirely going on roleplaying), instead getting one of the biggest grindfests I've ever experienced, with rolls for literally everything.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@Methshot
That's the thing, street-level has never worked in Shadowrun. Every runner starts out with enough resources to be top of their field, and with enough gear to be a bloody nightmare. There's literally no reason they should be spent on "street level" runs aside from some people's bizarre insistence on not actually looking at what the mechanics reflect.

Again, compare it to a strictly urban D&D campaign.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Stupidasole
It is theoretically possible (albeit stupid) to have a sandbox-railroad game.
Ever heard about West Marches?

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@StonedTime

I also love 4e, and there's a huge contingent here on Veeky Forums that still loves it as well. Actually, the community that plays 4e is largely the same as it was when 4e was "official." The offline builder still exists. Funin.space still exists. All the PDF's still exist. 3e was the game in which the play experience was dependent on new material constantly coming out and "changing the meta" of the character building experience. If anything, 4e ended at the perfect time, right when the feat-bloat and power-creep was starting to show, but before it got unmanageable.

Try running a game of 4e, but running it in a pulpy OTT setting instead of FR, with the explicit understanding that the players are the protagonists of the pulp novel being collaboratively written, and I've found that even the stogiest PF-fan can be brought around to understanding that 4e is good for the type of game it's designed for (which just happens to have very little intersect with the type of game that 3.PF is good for)

viagrandad
viagrandad

@whereismyname
What is the worse is better mentality?

balance is bad for the game.

we can justify poor design decisions by going for realism, but failing.

consistent presentation means everything is samey.

good editing removes the flavor.

if the text isn't templated poorly and laid out in clear terms, the game is dumbed down.

making a good system removes DM empowerment, the system SHOULD have flaws because muh good DM

As long as no player TRIES to break the game, there aren't any problems that will occur on accident. If anybody notices flaws, they are just a munchkin.

We cannot fix these flaws because it will result in every game being a whiteroom optimization exercise.

Again, basically everything Paizo did and said in response to the 4e backlash.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@BinaryMan
But they are. You're just dungeon crawlers by a different name. As I said, imagine a strictly urban D&D campaign.

D&D is rooted in sword and sorcery fiction, and there's no actual requirement that they be compassionately motivated. In fact most explorations of its basic premise point out that "compassion" doesn't really fucking fit with it, since you're effectively murdering scores of people to take their shit; they're just the designated ugly and evil people so it's magically OK.

Playboyize
Playboyize

@cum2soon

But you're not. If you try and play Shadowrun like D&D you will die like a bitch.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@viagrandad
Ohhhh, you're a butthurt 4rry. Makes sense.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@iluvmen
You've haven't toucher either if you think this is the case.

RavySnake
RavySnake

@viagrandad
@viagrandad
@viagrandad

I see. But I don't like DND (4e was maneagable, 5e I don't know) so the only thing I got form Paizo is that they're full of furries.

WebTool
WebTool

@Nojokur
Maybe this is some 5e autism, but in 4e street level mundanes do not have anywhere near what they need to be at the top of their field. They're speedballing 3+ drugs at once if there's a threat of combat just to not die. IP's and all that. A 4e street level mundane will be able to afford like one piece of bioware or two pieces of cyberware.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@viagrandad

Oh my god, you just summed up so many of the most annoying fucking things.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Skullbone
HP as grit, vitatility, and plot armor>Wound-points death spiral>HP as meat points.

HP make perfect sense, and are a great game mechanic, when done RIGHT, but nobody does them right, because of video games.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Deadlyinx
What about a coming-of-age story that takes place after adulthood, if that makes any sense?

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Playboyize
Again, strictly urban campaign. You'd absolutely be putting in legwork to figure out how that noble's villa was guarded, and you'd be doing your best to lay low to avoid getting ganked. D&D characters do not start out as big damn heroes.

JunkTop
JunkTop

@Snarelure
@BunnyJinx
I think this is either a function of you playing with the wrong people or you having too high expectations of what roleplaying is.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

Edition wars are dumb.
And this thread is dangerously close to turning into one.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@AwesomeTucker

Yes they do, unless you're only talking about old school editions for some bizarre reason.

I guess you could play D&D like Shadowrun, maybe? But I have no idea why you want to. The system is completely inappropriate for it.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@WebTool
With default 4e creation rules, I never had a runner that was less than top of their field at a single skill or less than 3 initiative passes.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

HP as Meat points is the only ways shit makes sense to me. HP as grit, luck, etc is lame as fuck. And if you feel like nitpicking it you're in the wrong fucking genre and game.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@JunkTop
user, like I've originally stated - I never meet anyone roleplaying anything. Everything is always handled out of character and/or in third person, as in "He walks there" or "She talks to him about X". And it never goes into any details, just a pure declaration of the action performed by character.
I fail to see how this is roleplaying at all. That just feels like bunch of people meeting to play tabletop version of Diablo.
At first I was sure that's just the fault of my first group, but compared with random people I just meet to play play with, they were at least declaring their action in first person.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

My biggest grit is when people like this @StonedTime
assume that HP is meat points. Even in D&D it's specifically stated to be plot armor, and I've yet to read a single system where it's anything but, unless they've split into multiple pools, like vitality and health.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Boy_vs_Girl

Yeah, since Gygax always said it was an abstraction. Meatpoints should get out of RPGs.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Spazyfool
yes they do

Not they fucking don't. They're a single critical hit away from being ganked, or just a couple regular hits away from being ganked.

old school editions don't count as D&D

Gotcha. It's not like OSR is one of the biggest forces in gaming currently.

Shadowrun is D&D for people who feel too sophisticated for D&D.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@StrangeWizard
The term "edition war" was never accurate. It was more like an edition attack.

Sonic 2006 was not very good according to a lot of people. But even /v/ and kotaku and the biggest shotholes in gaming never were so far up their own asses to say.
"sonic 2006 is literally NOT a video game."

Veeky Forums was.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Emberburn
There's a difference between not having touched either, and not having dove so deep into 3.PF optimization meta that the minutia of differences between different [genre]d20 games actually start to seem significant.

5e is about as different from 3.PF as any given [Insert Intellectual Property]D20 game, which is to say that while 3.PF optimization boards will write literal novels on the differences in the meta, casual players of the system will barely be able to distinguish the system has changed.

Yes I'm a casual player of 3.PF and 5e, because I never liked either system enough to dive head-first into the optimization meta.

TechHater
TechHater

@Carnalpleasure
Gygax said a bunch of contradictory things. But I guess you getting posoined by a blade that never touched you. Burned by fire that never burned you. And healing wounds that were never there in the first place.

He was probably just saying that to placate "muh realism fags". It wouldn't be the first time he did or said something just to please people.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Sharpcharm

...Dude. OSR is a cool little thing in and of itself, but calling it one of the biggest forces in gaming is fucking laughable.

I could maybe see a comparison between OSR and Shadowrun, although even then there are a huge number of distinct differences in assumption and playstyle that make the argument that they're the same very weak in my eyes.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@Poker_Star
Even in D&D it's specifically stated to be plot armor,
No it fucking isn't. Everything about the games. And the FUCKING FLUFF IMPLIES YOU ARE ACTUALLY GETTING FUCKING HIT!

IT"s NOT RESTORE FUCKING LUCK.

IT'S

CURE

LIGHT/HEAVY

WIOUNDS. Not luck. Not grit. FUCKING WOUNDS.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@StonedTime
As someone who could be described as a casual player of 5e, the differences are fucking massive. The game is vastly stripped-down, and the entire thing is less laborious to play.

For some reason people only evaluate these systems on character design (even here it's simpler) rather than the mechanical underpinnings, and compared to the clunky mess that was 3.5, 5e is pretty fucking different.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@TechHater

...Do you not understand what an abstraction is?

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Fried_Sushi
I suppose you built only one-trick ponies then, because being top of your field and having 3 IPs is at least 289 of your 500 karma by my count.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@StonedTime
So basically, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about so you write off both games as being the same.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Poker_Star
It's not the fault of the system doing HP wrong, it's the fault of shitty DM's doing HP wrong being in the majority, because they saw a guy in FF7 getting literally hit in the chest with a buster-sword resulting in some of his HP going away.

The system has indeed pointed out from day 1 that HP is grit and plot shield, but the community has actively put their fingers in their ears and started humming loudly to themselves.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@ZeroReborn
I honestly can't see the appeal.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Spazyfool

D&D contradicts the definition of HP it gives with the wordings of some of its spells and such, yes. It's stupid and needs to be fixed to make it clear that it's an abstraction.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@CodeBuns
OSR is bigger than Shadowrun these days. :^)

Also you're refusing to see the forest for the trees, you're so obsessed with making it seem as though Shadowrun is such a step away from D&D (because you don't want to be a D&D player, only plebs play it) that you can't see how similar they are for all the minutiae.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@cum2soon
Except it's not an abstraction. If something beats your AC, you got physically hit. It may not have been a fatal blow, but that sword did fucking cut you. All the other explanations exist to please hipsters and after a certain point, you have to consider maybe the statement that says HP is an abstraction is what is wrong as opposed to all the other sources that imply it is not.

Evilember
Evilember

@Boy_vs_Girl
Nah, I just built runners that were actually good for something.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Poker_Star

No? I enjoy playing D&D, just like I enjoy playing Shadowrun.

And it's because I play both that I'm aware that they're distinctly different games.

SniperWish
SniperWish

This thread is the biggest testimony people should do pic related.
Would solve 3/4 of issues brought up over past 150+ posts

RavySnake
RavySnake

its a meme but -4 str is almost completely ok
it can be argued between -4 and -2

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Spazyfool
I'm sorry about your terminal autism, but I'd suggest reading where it describes what HP is again. It's pretty specific.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Burnblaze

see

@haveahappyday

Even from the earliest edition, you're wrong.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@hairygrape
Ok. So you've got a shit group. You can still remedy that by being a good GM.
When you're talking to them as an NPC in-character and they start going "My character tells them blablabla..." you ask them to specify, forcing them to answer in-character. It doesn't take long to make talking IC the norm.
Also make sure each player gives their characters some sort of personality and backstory. Have them each think up a flaw or fear, a goal, and an associate from their past. Make sure to put something relating to one of these things in each session.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

I hate edition wars outside of their specific threads.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Poker_Star
Not him, but what are you smoking? OSR is literally "flavour of the season" type of deal and it already falling back.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@VisualMaster
the sword hit you
he got a nick
THAT IS FUCKING MEAT POINTS YOU TARD. THE FIGHTER THAT GOT DAMAGED GOT HIT.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@Flameblow
I play both too. They're not as different as you're trying to make them seem. But you're following a proud tradition in gaming of selling your game on "at least it isn't D&D."

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@hairygrape
Well NOW I am triggered.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Spazyfool
Restore luck actually makes a lot of sense for divine magic. HP needn't necessarily be luck, but many abstract things, like pride, can be wounded.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@King_Martha
Not being a massive optimization autist memorizing powerbuilds on the charop forums=you don't know what the fuck you're talking about
Sure thing bro.
@Crazy_Nice
Your play experience must have been vastly different to mine, because the play seemed damn identical to me. Yeah, the lack of save-or-die effects flying around, and the collapse of the fiddly +1's into "advantage" and "disadvantage" are both nice, but are at best window dressing on a still quite broken window.
For some reason people only evaluate these systems on character desig
I think that could be because, from what I hear, the true locus of the game in 3.PF is not in playing, but in character building. It's a lot like deck building for tournament-tier MTG games (complete with most people netdecking.) Playing is just a proof-of-concept run to prove that your deck... I mean character-build... works as intended.

Spamalot
Spamalot

Hitpoints as an abstraction crumbles when you consider falling damage.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

The board game community needs to stop the immense autism
40k is not cool, it's cringy poorly written 13 year old boy garbage
Dice as a substitute for skill is a shit mechanic

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Poker_Star
Even more widespread issue is people saying popularity and quality is synonymous
It's worse because even people acknowledge it will still use popularity as an argument

Inmate
Inmate

@King_Martha
I think that could be because, from what I hear, the true locus of the game in 3.PF is not in playing, but in character building. It's a lot like deck building for tournament-tier MTG games (complete with most people netdecking.) Playing is just a proof-of-concept run to prove that your deck... I mean character-build... works as intended.

I'm not sure on that one, I just always found it strange that most criticisms of 3.5 centered around imbalances in character design, rather than the fact the underlying system was complete ass.

Playboyize
Playboyize

@Spamalot
It crumbles when you consider everything else in the game aside from a one off paragraph. It's like people constantly trying to insist charisma is a physical attractiveness despite everything else int he game suggesting otherwise beyond one fucking sentence.

Techpill
Techpill

@Spamalot
Not really. Again, unless you have terminal autism you can come up with something. He grabbed shit on his way down, hit treetops, or something else to slow his fall. Hit snow, soft dirt, was able to do any number of things to slow his fall and get up with nothing but bruises.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@Spamalot
Not really. If it's an abstraction of luck, you can be "lucky" enough to not suffer much damage due to random factors and sticking the landing just right. The higher the fall, the less likely it is for you to survive.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Skullbone
Space Marines are my favourite part of 40k, super soldier Knightly Orders in Space just hits all of my buttons.

Anyone who actually thinks any faction in 40k even approaches good is retarded. The Imperium are genocidal assholes who would either work you to death or kill you outright, the Tau are communist brainwashing dickheads who view their population as tools, etc, and people should enjoy them for their over the top asshattery instead of trying to force their own ideologies into a rule of cool based setting.

The Age of Sigmar setting has potential, it just needs to fully embrace the crazy Spelljammer like elements instead of being as safe as possible.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Techpill
So how do you explain it if he lands on an open field with nothing to potentially slow his fall?

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Supergrass

...No? Go back and read it again.

Physical endurance is part of the abstraction of HP, but it's a relatively small part.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@DeathDog
I'm not a GM, I'm a player. And reading Veeky Forums usually makes me feel both salty and jelous. People are having fun games all over the world and I'm living in a 1 mil city and can't meet a handful of people to play with. The reason I even got into RPG was because bunch of people from university needed "4th guy for bridge", only it wasn't bridge and they've promised lots of fun and "game of pretend".
Took me over a year to realise it won't get any better beyond what they are doing, then I've finished uni and wasn't obliged in any way to continue playing with them, but the random people responding to adds or groups I join in local gaming bar are even worse.
I just don't believe everyone in the city who is into RPGs is unable to role-play at all.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Flameblow
He landed just right? His clothes caught the wind just right? Stranger things have happened in real life.

JunkTop
JunkTop

@VisualMaster
Even from the earliest edition, you're wrong.
I think you may be confused. I (@haveahappyday
@StonedTime
) am arguing AGAINST meat points and FOR HP as originally described and intended. I'm saying that HP as meat-points is stupid, and not the intent of the game, but for some reason, the community seems to be obsessed with it, and treat HP-as-plot-armor as as a house-rule, which is upsetting, and literally the point I was originally making.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@iluvmen
3.5 "Fighter": Warblade
5E Fighter: Battlemaster
indistinguishable

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Dreamworx

Again, I honestly don't see the similarity you're so obsessed with. They're two games with so different playstyles the only similarity that seems notable is the presence of fantasy cliches.

In one you're big damn heroes doing heroic adventuring things, in the other you're morally ambiguous operators needing to act with planning and discretion in order to avoid horrible, horrible deaths or even worse things.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@StonedTime
I'm not a GM, I'm a player.
Then be the GM.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@ZeroReborn
@AwesomeTucker
That's a complete asspull. There's no reason a 20th level fighter should be more likely to survive that without ill-effect.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@likme
Tenra Bansho Zero, Make You Kingdom, Ryuutama, Golden Sky Stories, Maid RPG, Tokyo Nova, Shinobigami

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Skullbone
pathfinder is fun and fine. Just play your own system, we will play ours.
GW aint as bad as we say they are.

for Veeky Forums as a whole
Reddit is fine. You dont like it? Dont use it.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@TurtleCat
No, it's a rather large part. Everything about the game implies that HP is how much physical punishment you can take.

farquit
farquit

@AwesomeTucker
I hate aliens in science fiction
I can understand. Firefly was awesome.

I hate magic in science fiction
I agree.

I hate teleports in science fiction
No need to specify. It's horrible in fantasy.

I hate FTL in science fiction
FTL can be done right, but yeah, most of the time it sucks.

I hate AI in science fiction
Why?

I like science fiction
How is that unpopular?

takes2long
takes2long

@StonedTime
@Poker_Star
@Spazyfool
@cum2soon
@Burnblaze
@VisualMaster
@Supergrass
@TurtleCat
@JunkTop
You know the obvious solution is that HP is meat points, it's just cartoon logic meat points rather than realistic.
For example, when samurai jack gets punched or mauled by a robot get gets shallow scratches rather than being turned into a bloody pulp. This is basically what is happening in D&D whenever you take damage.
YOU ARE LITERALLY IMAGINING THE GAME INCORRECTLY. D&D IS NOT REALISTIC AND WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE.

likme
likme

@Supergrass
And that's your opinion. I think he'd have the divine grace of gods, among other things.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@Spazyfool
But how do I play then? After all, GMPC is a big no-no. That goes without mentioning that I don't want to run games. I want to play them.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@King_Martha
This I can't believe.
@Raving_Cute
My friend has personalized coasters for us to use. the bottoms grab on to the table well, but the tops are super slippery and drinks are easily knocked off. It's a real pain in the ass.

And we've been going without coasters for 2 years because it's a junky table that he doesn't care about.

Methshot
Methshot

@takes2long
wew lad

Firespawn
Firespawn

@takes2long

D&D not being realistic makes perfect sense with abstract meat points.

RavySnake
RavySnake

@haveahappyday
@haveahappyday

You kow, the thing about wh40k is that as a parody it would be pretty cool. I'm not asking for something like Dredd, either.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

I don't get why people care so much about HP being meat points or some faggy narrative luck pool or whatever.

If your power fantasy is shrugging off arrows and swrods to the face like a physical god or narrowly escaping a blade that parts your hair, do that. Who gives a shit. The mechanical effect is the same at the end of the day.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@hairygrape
You play as ALL the NPCs. You get the most roleplay out of anyone. Make a fuckhuge cast of characters for the party to interact with.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@likme
Why does the fighter save every time a poisoned thing takes HP away? Why does he take energy drain every time a wight hits him?

TechHater
TechHater

@RumChicken
Because he has terminal autism, just like you.

FastChef
FastChef

@farquit
Not him, but I'm guessing his grief with AI is making it always rebellous, always murderous, always trying to wipe out humanity.
Shit's so annoying not having AIs at all is a better option, because nobody will end up tempted to play "this week, you fight against Not!Skynet, which rebelled against humanity and wants to kill everyone".

Daily reminder the only person who did AI in fiction right was not Asimov, but Lem.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@GoogleCat
As has been pointed out in several explorations of the subject, D&D characters are quite morally ambiguous. The basic dungeon crawl isn't actually that far off from the iconic heist of Shadowrun.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@RumChicken

Because he got nicked even if he evaded the worst of the strike? Because a supernatural effect like that might still have an effect, even if you deflect the blow with a shield or it doesn't pierce your armour?

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@TechHater
stephanmolyneux.jpg

Come on, try harder.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@takes2long
Using HP as plot-shield has nothing to do with realism, and everything to do with genre emulation. In action movie and novels, the protagonist and/or villain doesn't suffer TELLING blows until the end of the fight. Yes, they get knicks and scratches, and the system emulates this by using HP to turn what would be telling blows into glancing scratches and near misses.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@takes2long
Pro meat point guy here.
That's what I advocating for, honestly. And how I always imagined it.

If you want realism in your fantasy shit, go play something else. Like Song of Swords.

Soft_member
Soft_member

I really hate when bunch of idiots entrench themselves in their positions and turn decent thread into their personal battlefield.
Especially when it's edition war or some retarded argument about game abstractions.

farquit
farquit

@Gigastrength
Well if it works for you I guess, you heathen. I mean, whatever floats your boat you monster.

5mileys
5mileys

@Booteefool
I mean, that's exactly what he just said and the loner this goes on, the more I think everyone in this argument is operating off a different definition of "meat points".

takes2long
takes2long

@BunnyJinx

I think I've figured out what I consider the fundamental difference between D&D and Shadowrun, with dungeons vs runs.

In a dungeon, part of the experience is exploration and discovery, the various traps and encounters being surprises you come across and deal with in the moment.

It's completely the opposite in Shadowrun. Any half decent runner team will know the vague idea, if not the details, of everything they're going to be up against, and something you weren't aware of coming up is a massive oh shit moment you need to pull out all the stops to deal with.

It creates a completely different gameplay dynamic in my experience.

Inmate
Inmate

@Booteefool
As much as I'm ragging on D&D, this is spot on. Read the first Conan story, the one where he's ambushed in his bedroom by assassins, and you'll get a picture of what they were going for with HP.

My complaints mostly boil down to the abstraction not being applied consistently.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@FastChef
Not him, but I'm guessing his grief with AI is making it always rebellous, always murderous, always trying to wipe out humanity.

I don't get this complaint. There are tons of good or non-evil AI in fiction. They are also a common villain because they make good villains.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Booteefool
Is that supposed to be a picture of John Carter?

Snarelure
Snarelure

@takes2long
That's fair. But Shadowrunners are still expected to deal with surprises, and a good team of adventurers will typically do some scouting or scrying ahead of themselves to get advance warning.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@FastChef

I wanted to do an AI that might genuinely unite a notDune empire (nobles and whatnot, the setting was Fading Suns) by being its worst nightmare. The one most existentially dangerous menace to the system.

It was a planetary AI that managed a planet/solar system, full with humans.

The quirk? It enables "real" communism. The serfs have no class distincitions, and they're genuinely happy and satisfied.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@BunnyJinx
3.5 "Fighter": Warblade
Mostly does generic attacks every turn, but occasionally uses his VERY small pool of special slots to do special maneuvers that largely amount to a generic attack with bonus damage and a bonus effect. Still totally outshined by fullcasters regardless.
5E Fighter: Battlemaster
Mostly does generic attacks every turn, but occasionally uses his VERY small pool of special points to do special maneuvers that largely amount to a generic attack with bonus damage and a bonus effect. Still totally outshined by fullcasters regardless.

Fucking night and day, right?

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@LuckyDusty
Confirmed for never having played a Warblade.

They'll typically being doing most maneuvers (starting out with three of them, which will be enough to carry you through most combats) and then only do a basic attack when they replenish their maneuvers.

But yeah, they're still totally outshined by full casters (frankly, I say they sit at a sweet spot of balance).

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@Soft_member
I've always taken the reddit hate to be a joking meme, but recently I've realized most people here don't. Today the OP of a thread apologized for "considering [reddit users] to be human" with a straight face.

I worry this tribalistic jokey shit is being turned into legit bigotry by fucking Veeky Forums of all places.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@LuckyDusty
So yeah, you don't know what the actual fuck your talking about.

All RPGs are the same! You're rolling DICE to do THING! And sometimes these things can be described as similar. 4e is the same as 2e and 3e and Pathfinder. It's all the same fucking shit.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@LuckyDusty
@Fried_Sushi

Battlemasters are way worse than Warblades, although slightly better than Fighters.

And yeah, Tier 3/4 was really the only way to play 3.PF. Although even then you were still deal with the clunky mechanics underlying it all, which kinda spoils the fun most of the options present.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@hairygrape
The GM is also a player, numbnuts.

5mileys
5mileys

Most unpopular opinion:
Veeky Forums is full of self righteous dicks thst cant handle other opinions and preferences.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@5mileys

I think it's actually pretty popular... wait, you got me there. Bravo.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@5mileys

Honestly that seems like the most true thing anyone has posted this entire thread.

Then again, it can also be applied to pretty much anywhere, not just Veeky Forums.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@5mileys
Welcome to the internet, where the lack of face to face interaction makes it impossible to experience true empathy.

WebTool
WebTool

@Burnblaze
It describes the internet as a whole. Tribalism is king.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Snarelure

Yeah, but I still feel like the fundamental dynamic is very different. Adventurers are excited at the idea of discovering some lost, forgotten secret. Runners freak the fuck out at something they hadn't planned for.

Shadowrun also operates a lot more on spotlight balance than D&D does, in general.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@SniperGod

I wouldn't say it's impossible. It's just easier to dehumanise others without the immediate feedback and mental triggers we have from actually interacting with another human being in person.

5mileys
5mileys

All I've taken away from this thread is that HP is inconsistently described, and that you're free to interpret it how you will.

Personally I've always favored a combination of:
"You got stabbed but you're used to getting stabbed so you manage to not get run through the heart and instead just take a cut to the chest"
and
"You got hit but you aren't effected by the exhaustion and blood loss caused by the holes in you body because you are tougher than most people so you keep on fighting"

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@Crazy_Nice

mfw the web has done what every army commander always wanted to

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@lostmypassword
No user. They are common villain, because it's one of the easiest picks in sci-fi - a machne and rebelled against humans, because it no longer needs them. This is boring, over-done, over-used and back in fucking 50s was already a dead-horse cliche.
At this point it's so frustrating that just hearing "your enemy is rebellous AI" makes me roll my eyes.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@LuckyDusty
@SomethingNew
Playing characters that come and go. Having to endure players and their behaviour. Having to judge said behaviour. And worst of all, given shit, because they didn't have fun.

At this pace I'll rather drop TTRPG than get into GMing.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@Crazy_Nice
Sorta?

I think its just your not gonna get as much human satisfaction from sharing something you like with anonymous faces unless you become a hugbox. So the focus becomes on self gratification as you prove how "superior" your opinion is.

Booteefool
Booteefool

DanD wiki 5e homebrews has SOME good stuff

girlDog
girlDog

@TurtleCat
What about paper clip machines that are just following their prime directive blindly?

I'm personally a fan of General AIs as a justification for a setting looking like it does. I've run campaigns where metal was eaten by AI-generated plagues and everyone had to do enlightened caveman shit to maintain a civil society.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@CodeBuns
I think a comparison between Shadowrun and oldschool D&D is apt. Older D&D borrowed more from the sword and sorcery roots of the game, in which heroes tended to be morally ambiguous and primarily self-interested (later D&D would borrow more from high fantasy, which is quite the opposite).

Spotlight balance was pretty normal for old school D&D (the thief for instance was just expected to outright suck in combat, their domain was elsewhere).

I'll agree that modern D&D has a more heroic bent to it (though I think you overstate just how heroic they start).

Evilember
Evilember

@Illusionz
Playing characters that come and go.
There's no problem with having characters stay with the party. If the campaign is set in space or on the ocean they will need a crew for their ship, if they're mercenaries they may have someone to help them clean and cook on the road or a character that fills out a combat role they don't have covered.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@Skullbone
Numenera is a fantastic system, but the setting is kinda meh. So use The Strange or the superior base Cypher System.

Sorry back up a sec? Upgrade fantastic to one of the best games to go public. Keeps things crushy for the Players, and Smooth for the DM. SMOOTH FOR THE DM! That is more Important than ANY other aspects in all games! Only taking a back seat to the system needing to be enjoyable, which it is. So both huddles past.

And the Caster vs Material quik that keeps popping up on tg? are for people who've never made it past character creation. It really really is.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@Evilember
Yes, but none of them is mine. It's just a backdrop. A bunch of random names that can't even affect the story in any meaningful way. Also, it kind of defeats the purpose if I both run and play, as I'd end up knowing everything from the get-go. What's the point of chasing a killer in a criminal if you know who did it already?

happy_sad
happy_sad

@Dreamworx

You're probably just not cut to be a GM then. It can be an immensely rewarding, enjoyable experience in a very different way to being a player, but it also isn't for everybody.

takes2long
takes2long

@LuckyDusty
spamming far more powerful maneuvers until you run out and then refreshing them all in one round where you also attack is the same thing as spamming basic attacks with the occasional far weaker maneuver mixed in because you have a tiny pool and have to sit on your ass for an hour to get them back
Retard pls go.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@PurpleCharger

Can you give any details on what makes the system actually good? It just seemed kinda generic and bland to me.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@TurtleCat
No user. They are common villain, because it's one of the easiest picks in sci-fi - a machne and rebelled against humans, because it no longer needs them. This is boring, over-done, over-used and back in fucking 50s was already a dead-horse cliche.

I've seen plenty of different motivations for killer AIs. Being "over-done" is not a bad thing, they are "over-done" because they make good villains.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Skullbone
Magic is just fantasy science and can be explained like any other natural law through processes simplistic enough to write into an rpg supplement!

This shit is the worst

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@happy_sad
The main point is - I don't want to be a GM. So if I am or not cut for it is meaningless.
I just want to have at least once in my life a normal rpg game sessions.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

The autism this thread exhibits proves why tg shit will never be popular

Nojokur
Nojokur

@RumChicken
Not him, but are you just claiming it's good to have n-th story that plays exactly the same? What are you? Amnesiac?

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@VisualMaster
Then either go back to looking for another group online or just fucking quit already.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@CodeBuns
Like anyone cares

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Skullbone
That doesn't make sense in a sci-fi setting because of a <stated universal law>.
Seriously? a 1000 years in the future and you think any of our understanding in science will be EXACTLY the same. Fucking! Half of the most interesting shit in science is prefaced with "We hope this is right, we are just estimating after all" and a fucking college student thinks he knows it all because he read it in a book of someone else educated guess?
ugh.

On that note.
High level science is no different than magic
Fucking no.
Science is achieved by a question attitude and repeatable results in a lab. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean you don't question it. Before manned flight we didn't assume Bird flew on magic, we knew it had sometime to do with those wings.
Back to the first point: we DON'T understand some very big underlining things in THIS universe! Dark Matter, black holes, string theory. We don't call it magic!

Magic is when you KNOW the laws of physics (for instance) and a magical thing is just breaking them for no rhyme or reason. And when you dig into the question you find the answer an unsatisfactory "because magic"

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

"Actual plays" have ruined ttrpgs and the community, the average person theses days has two sessions under his belt and spams their favourite internet forum about the superiority of rules-lite.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

Classic tropes done well are a good thing.
Generic "d&d fantasy" is a problem that isn't really solved by "trying to be original"

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@iluvmen
Magic is when you KNOW the laws of physics (for instance) and a magical thing is just breaking them for no rhyme or reason
This. Jesus Christ, why people are so obtuse to not realise this shit and treat it as something obvious and common?

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Nojokur
Not him, but are you just claiming it's good to have n-th story that plays exactly the same? What are you? Amnesiac?

No, I'm saying basic elements tend to repeat a lot because they make good stories. Having lots of stories with villainous AIs doesn't mean they are the same stories, any more than stories with tyrants or crime lords or corporate bosses or any number of other common villains are the same just because they share that one element. It's the same reason not many stories feature Farmer Joe as the big villain. Some concepts just tend to work better than others.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@iluvmen
Historically, most mystical traditions were approached as a sort of half-baked science. In fact a field of science (chemistry) came out of a mystical tradition (alchemy).

There was an assumed rhyme and reason for magic too, hence its close association with metaphysics (Platonism in the west for instance).

King_Martha
King_Martha

@lostmypassword
I don't even know what "actual plays" are.

@ZeroReborn
Also different user, but what if the story is not good? I mean it's pretty common. And it's even less good when it's made out of easily-recognisable elements, as in the end it feels as if someone was unable to even assemble a half-decent scenario out of well-established cliches and tropes.
That makes not only the GM look pathetic, but all the elements he misused or failed to utilise.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Gigastrength
I swear to god settings attempting to subvert the "generic d&d fantasy" outnumber generic d&d fantasy 7-1 theses days, I've unironically heard somebody saying how refreshing it was playing in greyhawk recently.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@BunnyJinx
When people bring historical reference to a fantasy, invented world with barely any bearing to reality aside having humans in it
There is nothing worse and more autistic. Nothing

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Skullbone
Veeky Forums is shitty and cancerous as any other board on Veeky Forums

Playboyize
Playboyize

@iluvmen

It's pretty improbably we're gonna flip sceintific laws, tough. We MIGHT find interesting holes but...

@lostmypassword

implying actual plays are even connected to the complexity of rules

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@King_Martha
I don't even know what "actual plays" are.
Critical Roll, Acquisitions Inc, etc.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Sharpcharm
... still rings me nothing?
Those are some sites or something, like Kotaku for /v/?

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@King_Martha
Also different user, but what if the story is not good? And it's even less good when it's made out of easily-recognisable elements, as in the end it feels as if someone was unable to even assemble a half-decent scenario out of well-established cliches and tropes.

That's a problem with the execution, not those elements. And IMO, forced attempts at originality usually come out worse than stories which are just cliche.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@SomethingNew
It's funny, I ran a campaign filled with princesses to be saved, evil knights guarding bridges, etc. Pretty much based it off old knight tales, fairy tales, old fantasy books and whatnot. I had a few players praise the originality of the setting.

askme
askme

@RumChicken

https://forum.rpg.net/forumdisplay.php?68-Roleplaying-Actual-Play

It's when you describe your session. Nothing exactly esoteric.

massdebater
massdebater

@VisualMaster
I didn't said a word about originality. I'm explicitly talking about people being unable to execute one of the most cliche-driven scenario in existence, an AI rebellion. And if they do manage, it just usually Terminator rip-off.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@askme
Recordings are what the user was complaining about.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@massdebater
And what I'm saying is that if they didn't execute that right, they probably wouldn't execute anything else right either. It's not a problem with the idea.

TechHater
TechHater

@askme
AAR for game sessions then.

I'd have to be insane to write down entire list of events that happens during a single game session. People are actually doing this? I mean that feels like writing down a shitty fantasy heartbreaker book by the sole concept of it.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@ZeroReborn
But if they do execute it, it's still just cliche driven schlock. So from one hand you have inability to execute it and form another the final effect still being shit. A lose-lose scenario.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@DeathDog
@DeathDog

... and?

@TechHater
@TechHater

Read them. They're generally a sinopsis of the session, if they don't deal with a specific thing.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Spazyfool
But if they do execute it, it's still just cliche driven schlock.

No moreso than any other common idea.

WebTool
WebTool

@lostmypassword
Well then the basis of the genre is the absolutely most autistic and awful thing.

FastChef
FastChef

@Emberburn
generic and bland
If you are referring to the Numenera world/setting. It is, don't play it.
My preferred games have been running the Strange in a MiB style setting. Also I prefer the slight changes in Cypher Rules as compared to the basic Numenera ones (unpopular opinion).

Complex rules on the players side, and players handle all the dice rolling- which as a player I love.

Simplistic smooth running encounters, creatures, and NPCs on the DM side. Literally- literally is one (occasionally two) number(s) per creature for DMs. The simple difficulty scaling should never leave you unprepared for anything.

The DM intrusion mechanic is the Undo or Esc button for DMs. Forgot a key piece in your trap for the players? Or didn't expect players to do something? Intrude! and if a players still really want to hit that chinc in your armor, they can... for a point. You can inject dramatic moments with tension as you please! Very important.

Combat is seconds fast. Easily the fastest combat system I've used, and my players suck at taking their turns. Allows you to keep danger in the world, but not have all night eaten by combat.

Being able to spin things the way you want as a DM, allows you to engage your players more and more often. That alone with worth more than the some of the other things I've mentioned.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@TechHater
No, people, specifically comedians, are recording themselves playing DnD and making it into shows. The original user thinks this is bad because people who get into DnD through these things play the game like a stand-up routine, or at least that seems to be the complaint they're echoing.

I don't completely agree, but there's the explanation.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Gigastrength
You shouldn't be trying to subvert tropes for the sake of it. You should be trying to do what the originators of the genre did: create an original setting. This means rooting it in shit above the fantasy genre, like myth and history.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@CodeBuns

I see, but that's bullshit. I mean, I got into the hobby from fucking vidyas. Watching Will Wheaton playing Fiasco can't damage anybody.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@CodeBuns
Alternatively, anon's mad because people on Veeky Forums talk about roleplaying games without having played them enough, and thinks this is the reason they're for ruleslight games, which is really just a purity test.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Skullbone
DnD as a game is terrible. If it was a video game it'd be the shitty game you play only because your friends make the co-op fun and you got nothing else to play at the moment.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Supergrass
There's no reason a 20th level fighter should be more likely to survive that without ill-effect.
In real life, 0-level commoners have survived falls from more than a mile in the air.

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Garbage Can Lid
@Garbage Can Lid

I don't think saying "I don't like dwarves, want to use another race" is really a problem tough. Quite the contrary.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@SniperWish
In real life
0-level commoners
Pass the blunt, Caleb!

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@lostmypassword
Ugh. Agreed.

idontknow
idontknow

@CodeBuns
The original user thinks this is bad because people who get into DnD through these things play the game like a stand-up routine
@Sir_Gallonhead
/tg/ talk about roleplaying games without having played them enough
But both of theses are objectively correct, are they really opinions at this point?

Methshot
Methshot

@WebTool
I'm personally fine with historical allusions, but this boner for historical realism and "verisimilitude" Veeky Forums has, specifically, is a special breed of autistic

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@Harmless_Venom
Fiasco
Fiasco can, GOD that game sucks.

It really is more enjoy about to just doing a scene or bit as the case may be. Instead of sticking to the go around the table arbitrary rules.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@PurpleCharger
Numenera is a fantastic system
You fucking what m8, it was literally non-functional.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Skullbone
unpopular opinion
Heres one: I love threads like these. Even the complaint ones. Lets you see the real tg underneath the surprising the D&D hates D&D bullshit is a minimal. Lot of quirky ideas popping up.

Love it. Love reading these thread because you will always walk away with one or two new ideas for the game you are running or playing in.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

Having an antrophomorphic character doesn't make you a furry.
Constantly wanking how your character is an antrophomorphic animal and inabilit to contain yourself do.

StonedTime
StonedTime

I hate how few responses threads I make get compared to other anons'. I don't know if something has it out for me or what, but even when I do creative shit or run setting creation stuff like I did yesterday, it struggles to make it past 8 posters if it even gets going at all.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@StonedTime
It's probably because your first 5 words aren't very interesting.

There's a reason why single line of greentext threads get so much attention.

I'm gonna blindly guess that you start your threads with "Hey guys, I was making YADA YADA YADDA-"

If you want specific help, write.
"How/Why/When/What do I do ______?
I'm (insert details)"

Go really specific or really broad in general. People will respond when they need to think about something more than a second and need something clarified.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@RavySnake
I'm fine with -2 but giving like a +2 to like wisdom. Kind of like how elderscrolls had the stats vary between sex as well as race with woman usually being physically weaker but usually wiser or more intelligent. They stopped doing that with skyrim though and if they bring stats back with TES 6, I doubt they will keep that considering that some people even have problems with stat variations between races for some stupid fucking reason.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@kizzmybutt
Isn't it the other way?

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@Lord_Tryzalot
That thread was obvious bait and you and everyone that actually posted there is terminally retarded.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

General quality of posts has somehow decreased since banning of quest threads, despite the popular opinion of them being the cause of the cancer.

Can't even say anything without someone calling you a liar or a nigger like its /v/.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Skullbone
There's something to be said for having a cost barrier to a hobby, I prefer socializing with people who aren't desperately poor and or children

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Crazy_Nice
The problem here being that people with lives (which tend to take money to upkeep) will be less likely to join the hobby.

SniperGod
SniperGod

>>55488612
There is no singular "cancer"

Quest was one form of "cancer"
Drop in creative projects is another "cancer"
Level of unpleasantness is another "cancer"
/pol/ is a cancer but is completely irrelevant to quests.

I think the big flaw in the various opinion factions on Veeky Forums is that everyone sees the "THE CANCER" as a real thing and think there's a singular cure for it. Also things change. I used to like Quests because they were rare, had community pull like random drawfags and particularly fun ones going into meme status that the entire board could enjoy. In recent years, I've come to hate Quests because they were too impenetrable for people due to parts being over 10 full threads over and there weren't much, if any, secondary creative content being done.

My point is that things change and things aren't always so simple. I do wish that people would be bit nicer now and stop being so obsessed at telling people their opinions don't matter while doing nothing of their own. I really hate "depend on the setting" and "not an argument" posters for that kind of reasons.

idontknow
idontknow

I like 40K 8th edition so far and am cautiously optimistic that it will be at least decent.

I like the new Primaris model range.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@Skullbone
I think GURPS is shite.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Gigastrength
I don't use xp any more, personally. Usually just give everyone a level when they hit story milestones.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@New_Cliche
I started my tabletop career in 3.5, and even I think it's bad.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@PurpleCharger
@PurpleCharger

That's not unpopular at all, GURPS is autism made rules.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Garbage Can Lid
No. What is it?

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@FastChef
@lostmypassword
All that guy's complaints are a variant of "I hate magic in science fiction". He hates AI for the same reason he hates FTL travel - it's a technology that SF writers love and often take for granted even though it isn't a plausible extrapolation from the science we know and will never exist in the real world in the form depicted in fiction.

Which is an absolutely retarded stance to take, of course. It doesn't matter a damn for good science fiction whether the central idea or technology is remotely plausible.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

Yugioh is literally the best card game ever made.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@Skullbone
The GM should never bend the rules, especially in the middle of a play session.

t. Forever GM

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@TurtleCat

But AI is a perfectly plausible extrapolation from current scientific principles? That a computer system could run an intelligence in the same way as a meatbrain is pretty intuitive and logical, and nothing yet in AI research has given us any reason to believe otherwise.

Inmate
Inmate

@Skullbone

Some of the quest threads were fun
Stat me threads are cancer
I'm sick of little girl threads
D&d can be fun with a decent group

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@Spazyfool
Oh maybe, I don;t actually care. As depicted in SF they're often magical machine gods though.

idontknow
idontknow

@Methshot
Most of the stuff that's written is aimed at street scum from a thematic point of view, where you're trying to be able to afford food and rent, not upgrading your shit.

Food and rent is a speedbump that gets in the way of upgrading your shit, the ultimate objective of every player character.

And guess what? D&D works the same way.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Ignoramus
oh, that's a good one

DeathDog
DeathDog

I avtually don't mind the ultramarines that much. They're a little blamd for someone based off Rome, and sure a bit too noble and stuff but give 'em a break, they are legitimately one of the most effective legions. As far as spiritual leige and matt (malal) ward, he can suck a dick and take all his contributions with him. But if you just have the smurfs, as they were, pr guilliman with no plot related stupidity, and i dare say they're my 5th favorite legion of the 18 along with guilliman since he tries to relate to both people and his own sons. Unlike say, jaghatai or lionfucker, or lemon demon rustnuts. On the same note I hate russ and he'd be shredded by most primarchs given both are AWARE of a the fight. Fulgrim would split his furry ass right down the middle, horus would fucking peel his fursuit and skin off like a banana, angron DID kick his ass, mortarion would opperate like a blender on tank treds, and sanguinius could fucking smash his head with a wing, or just drop his ass from the air. Konrad could probably get him, lorgar no way, magnus might if he's not sobbing about how sad life is and how he deserves a gold plated ass spanking, and jaghatai is literally him without a fursuit, and a shit ton of ADHD

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Lunatick
Tokyo Nova
My fucking melanin-enriched brother.

idontknow
idontknow

@RavySnake
Cyberpunk, played straight, makes no sense in 2017. Zero, nada, nihil.
He's right, you know.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@DeathDog
Meant (actually) and (Bland)

TreeEater
TreeEater

@idontknow

Except that, y'know, it's a roleplaying game. It doesn't have to 'make sense' by the realities of the modern world. All it needs to do is be internally consistent. That statement is entirely irrelevant and no reason not to play and enjoy cyberpunk games.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@idontknow
Only in the sense that it's redundant because we're already living it.

Inmate
Inmate

Pathfinder is my favorite system.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

Another kinda weird 40k one, I think Abbadon can be a legitimately threatening character, had they not gone for the 13th black crusade. Afterall, he'd fought by horus for over a millenia, and proven to be worthy of so much that he became his preferred second in command, now for him to be incompetent would make no sense. Also why wouldn't perturabo just ask his fucking dad if it was wrong, or mention his complaint to the emperor, or even... I don't know challenge dorn to a non lethal siege simulation? Or maybe back up magnus at nikea, why would one of the most opinionated hard ass, objectivist, and strong primarchs NOT consider any of these options.

Also lorgar did nothing wrong, adopted dad and FUCKING EREBUS ruined everything, lorgar could have been a great border guard for the imperium

StonedTime
StonedTime

I honestly believe all combat encounters should be done within 6 rolls top. I hate tactical combat and like more abstracted styles like in The Sprawl, but I hate powered by the Apocalypse as a system. I wish there were more and better martial arts RPGs because all the ones we have now are pretty bad.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@Skullbone

D&D had it right the first time, AD&D was a mistake.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

tfw can't post my unpopular opinions because the thread is already at 300 replies

King_Martha
King_Martha

Drawfag opinion:

Character art requesters (read: ones with no intent of paying for art) are by far the most entitled fucking NEETs on the planet.
Commissioners on this board, by contrast, are an absolute pleasure to work with and it isn't just because they pay.
People who play ladyknights have got the thinnest skins in the entire hobby and can't take waifu criticism, let alone bantz. This cringey insufferability extends to free art demands.
Not having a cool helmet is for fucking plebs
Spouting communist rhetoric won't get you free art because they treated artists like shit.
There should be more threads about meatbread and interesting RP meals.
Regular Dagorhir has some of the dumbest rules in larping.
/tg/ is never as educated about history as its average user claims.
Realism threads as a result are exercises in the dunning-kruger effect.
The comics industry's decline in sales has a really annoying potential to hurt LGS if we don't support the hobby.
Tabletop is currently the atlas of local comic and anime shops.
Ethical roleplaying is better determined by character philosophy, social interaction, and consequence than by an alignment system and game rules.
DM's should make prospective players write a short essay about what they want out of rp and list credentials of other games they've played to get a feel for whether or not they'll fit.
Getting high is fine so long as you remember what's happening in-game.
Players should have small cheap notebooks for taking notes about stuff and the best kinds of games have some element where taking notes pays off.
Dark Age-inspired fantasy settings are the most fun.
It's not that people outright hate politics in a game it's that whoever interjected theirs into the game has awful politics, no subtlety, and even less imagination.

RumChicken
RumChicken

Raggi is super overrated
Stargazer is a bad dungeon

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@King_Martha
/tg/ is never as educated about history as its average user claims.
Realism threads as a result are exercises in the dunning-kruger effect.

What fallacy is it that because you know or believe to know that somebody else thinks they know more then they actually do, that somehow makes your opinion more correct then theirs?

Because I see that a lot. Like right now.

JunkTop
JunkTop

@Skullbone

Dice fucking suck.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Skullbone
The GM is absolutely not a player. The GM behaves in no way like any of the other players.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@Boy_vs_Girl
Make a new thread then. A part 2

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

I've liked pretty much every game I've played.

Being a moralfag is fun and rewarding.

Players who are dating playing characters who are dating is cute.

@hairygrape
have a nice darkwood table that's older than I am, no idea what it's worth but obviously a lot
like hosting at my place as a result, table is perfect for gaming and have good snacks and stuff
mfw people don't use coasters
user you monster. What's your CR so the party can attack you

I didn't used to understand the whole thing about parent making us use coasters until I became the owner/one responsible for the well-being of furniture. I'm sorry grandma, I didn't know what I was doing with all those cups.

MPmaster
MPmaster

@ZeroReborn
That's called being you. Telltale signs are impotent snark.

idontknow
idontknow

@Skullbone
4e was good for fantasy, but was even BETTER for Giant Mecha, Space Opera Action, and Tokusatsu.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@King_Martha
all these thinly-veiled jabs at the shittery that is the Veeky Forums art-thread
I love you. Especially because you appreciate bomb-ass helmets.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@Ignoramus
See that's all well and good until your realize that you actually just like bad things.

WebTool
WebTool

@Booteefool

Why would that be a problem? I love a lot of bad things. Bad movies are a favourite pastime of mine, particularly dreadful action and horror flicks.

When it comes to RPGs, some of my favourite games are bad, with various non-functional or badly put together mechanics and elements which sour the whole thing. I've fixed them up, of course, houserules and such that let what I like about them shine while diminishing the associated bullshit, but that I can fix them doesn't mean they aren't bad, and it's always worth being honest about such things.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Booteefool
And that's fine provided you don't confuse enjoyment = quality.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@TalkBomber
Not him, but if the product is a GAME, who's purpose is to ENTERTAIN, than what constitutes quality if not enjoyment?

Booteefool
Booteefool

@iluvmen
See, one of the things I like about the 40K RPG's is that magic (Warp-shenanigans, but it's basically the same thing from a practical standpoint) actually has side effects and is dangerous to use in-setting, and using it carelessly can and will punish not only you but those around you. This means you typically only use it in (proportionately) controlled amounts, or you run the big risk of burning your character up in hellfire and replacing them with Daemonic Rape Train Of Eternal Anal Annihilation.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@Dreamworx
clarity of rules, actual manufacturing of the components, the ability to provide adequate level of challenge, multiplayer balance if competitive, replay value are the things that come to my head immediately.

I fucking hate Infinity, I still recognize it as a good game due to the level of support that the company has put into it to make it playable in the latest edition.
I like 40k, it's better than what it was, but it's not a good game because the balance is bad, rules are open and needed FAQ.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Dreamworx

Personally, my standards are how well a game supports its premise and the GM.

A good game will be designed to make the job of the GM easier and to convey the intended tone and themes of the game, its mechanics intuitively supporting them.

As a less wanky example, if an action is totally in genre, and the system seeks to support that genre, then a player taking that action should find it functional, easy to do and rewarding in some way. A superhero game should support doing cool things you'd see in comicbooks, a camp spy game should support ridiculous James Bond bullshit.

A bad system, meanwhile, either fails to support its premise, doesn't provide structures to make the GMs job easier, or attempts those structures and fucks them up. The latter can be the most insidious, as a GM attempting to make use of the systems tools might end up in a worse position than one who just put in the extra work to do it all themselves.

Inmate
Inmate

@JunkTop
I don't understand what the functional difference between meat points and plot armor is.

Like what's actually the issue here? That some people are imagining things differently than you?

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

Specifically d&d stuff.

I hate magical healing, I hate magical resurrection, I hate magical disease curing, I hate magical curse removal. I hate how just by existing, classes with access to these spells completely negate any storytelling capability that these problems have.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@Lord_Tryzalot
You're victims of the curse of the babadingo guys!
Shit, use remove curse
The spell fizzles in your hand, thwarted by the potency of the curse, you'll need magic far more powerful to remove this

There you go, fixed your problem

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Poker_Star
by not following the rules of the game the game is made better
That just seems like bad game.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@ZeroReborn
any game explicitly states that you as the gm cannot alter rules to suit the kind of game you want to play

Don't be a fucking retard, user

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