Mediocre games with high production values

Emberfire
Emberfire

Mediocre games with high production values.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@Emberfire
high production values
Could you rephrase this in simplified English?

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@Emberfire
Is Scythe actually shit? I'm a huge fan of this guys artwork but 94 euro's is a bit too steep for a game I know nothing about....

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@BunnyJinx
Lots of flash, very little substance. Shit like pic related (kinda).

Firespawn
Firespawn

@New_Cliche
from what i know it's not really all that great. The art style is awesome but even on the polish market it never cought on

Flameblow
Flameblow

@BunnyJinx
high production values
Good art, good page/board/art layout, visual design.

In movie terms, good special effects, actors, sound & music.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@Poker_Star
sarcastic answer: AoS
honest answer: Bloodrage

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@BunnyJinx
Pretty art, good components, nice miniatures, shitty rules.

askme
askme

@Emberfire
Pretty much everything CMoN produces.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@New_Cliche

There's a lot of hate for it online which I don't understand, a lot of it seems to be people who were expecting a wargame.

Maybe it just appealed to me, but I love it. The systems in the game are very slick and elegantly designed, and I find the mix of eurogame economy building and a light area control/wargame consideration very enjoyable.

MPmaster
MPmaster

Literally every game with miniatures
dude I can't enjoy a game that doesn't ship with fancy toy soldiers

likme
likme

Kingdom Death: Monster

TechHater
TechHater

Eclipse

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@RumChicken
elegant

It's a boardgame homo, not a piece of jewelry.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Raving_Cute

And? Mechanical elegance is still a thing, and it's something that it's always nice to see in design.

massdebater
massdebater

@LuckyDusty
I like Bloodrage. I like it better with house rules (eg, whoever wins the battle wins the token, unlike the original rules, which states only the instigator of the combat can win the token).

Makes it play much faster.

Playboyize
Playboyize

@Emberfire
Degenesis

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@TechHater
I don't think you've ever played Eclipse if you think it's a mediocre game.

JunkTop
JunkTop

@PackManBrainlure

While I enjoyed Eclipse when I played it, I can see it. Mechanically it's a very deep and interesting game, but it's rather lacking in theme compared to some of the other sci-fi 4x board games available.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@cum2soon
whoever wins the battle wins the token, unlike the original rules, which states only the instigator of the combat can win the token

Uh, that kind of discourages pure aggressive play and "I lose all my fights" victories.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@JunkTop
I guess I feel differently, it's as close to MoO2 as you can reasonably get in a boardgame.

What 4x scifi board games have more theme? The alien races in Eclipse seem pretty thematic without pigeonholing your play style.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@PackManBrainlure
@Evil_kitten

Eclipse is too random for a euro and not fun or thematic enough for me.

Random VP, Random Tech, Random Exploration, Pointless diplomacy, Random Combat.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@TechHater
eclipse is fucking awesome. It's twilight empirium when you dont have 8 hours to spend

hairygrape
hairygrape

@Evil_kitten
What 4x scifi board games have more theme?

Literally anything labelled SciFi 4x

Twilight Imperium. Proxima Exodus Centauri. Starcraft TBG. Eminent Domain even. Sid Meiers Civilization is better 4x than Eclipse. Warrior Knights is better 4X than eclipse.

And most of those games are only 3X since none of them really have "explore" options. It's just the exploration in Eclipse is a potentially wasted move, or gets you the best gear in the game.

FastChef
FastChef

@Flameblow
Random VP, Random Tech, Random Exploration, Pointless diplomacy, Random Combat
I think you're bad at the game.

Methshot
Methshot

@viagrandad
No it's not. It is nothing like Twilight Imperium.

It's way more random than Twilight Imperium. In TI3, all information is known, except for a few action cards and secret objectives.

@FastChef
I've played it about 8 times. I've won 6. I've played TI3 about 30 times and won maybe 4? So I'm probably worse at TI3 but I like it a lot more.

Anyway, enjoy managing your science & build and then inevitably sending your entire fleet into the galaxy centre for the final round, as you spend 45 minutes figuring out who pinned who and then determining the winner of the game from random VP chits.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@Methshot
The random VP chits are to reward early aggression, as the higher point ones are gone by the late game.

Random Tech is meant to place more value on establish turn order and rewarding players for passing.

Exploration is random, but it's weighted towards better tiles in the center, making players chose between better tiles with less interaction with other players or worse tiles with more.

Diplomacy has decided all the games I've played, the 3 point swing from losing diplomacy and getting the traitor card can decide close games. Shakey alliances stop the big stack from running away with the game.

Combat is a little random in the early game, but later it's very much decided by your ship design choices. Randomized combat is great in my opinion, since it means you can't tell at a glance whether you'll succeed or not and adds an element of risk.

I take it back. You might be alight at Eclipse, but I get the feeling the people you play with aren't. Most of the balance comes from player interaction. Because of the nature of the game, even the biggest stack can't really hope to take on two other players, forcing players to pit themselves against each other in tense cold wars.

It's honestly, one of the best board games I've ever played.

WebTool
WebTool

@likme
This. 5e is a nice game with a lot of good ideas but when you take into account the sheer volume of knowledge they have from years of D&D's existence, and their past mistakes, the mediocrity of 5e really truly hits home. The resistance / vulnerability rules, the size-based hit dice, and the action economy, are the only places it really shines. Character customization is lacking, character creation is inelegant, damage and hp scaling are fucktarded, Power Attack is still a non-optional feat, the ASI structure is retarded, feats are slightly better but retarded, and Mearls is so bad at designing feats that he directly contradicts his own game design philosophy by adding a literal weapon focus clone to the game in UA. Also guaranteeing the best accuracy in the game can be achieved with bows, only closely followed by hammers. What the fuck, Wizards? And, since D&D's cultural niche had changed a lot in the six years between 4e's release and 5e's release (six, maybe five, I can't remember. Next was coming around in '12/'13 for playtesting but I didn't actually play it until 2015), the new edition was well received by a rapidly-expanding RPG market, which meant that the game had very good sales due to a larger market, and the developers attributed this to rules quality (as did most of /tg/) and used it as a argumentum ad populum to shut down most criticism of the game. Not to mention that the idiocy of the ASIs is actually defended for being "instant gratification" proving that D&D really has entered a new era, an era where its fanbase is made up of spoiled vidya-playing twats who expect to "level up" right after the tutorial.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Emberfire
Scythe
high production values
It's above average, but not high. While the artwork is literally what sells the game along with minis, the board itself along with mecha minis are shit-tier.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@WebTool
I don't disagree with you. Honestly, I don't think the point of 5th was to be good.

It was to try and undo 4th. They might have wanted to make all sorts of changes to the game to make it better, but there is only so much they could do without angering the already perma-rustled jimmes of 3.PF grognards.

5th was designed to attract people who were playing 3.5 still and people who had jumped to Pathfinder, not reinvent the wheel.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@MPmaster
tfw nobody bites your bait

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Firespawn
It never caught on Polish market, because it has absurd price for Polish standards. Nobody is going to shell out 350 złotych think as if it was value in dollars, because that's how it relates with Polish wages on a game that offers really poor gaming experience, is niche by itself (worker placement game with weird elements satelliting around it) and simply doesn't appeal with said aesthetics and gameplay to anyone in particular (this is Poland, so go figure)

Inmate
Inmate

@massdebater

Wouldn't that discourage aggression as well as Loki plays?

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@Inmate
I haven't played BR in a while, but it worked well for us. I don't remember the Loki cards off the top of my head. Are they the ones that let you steal rage?

viagrandad
viagrandad

@New_Cliche
It's not shit, but it's definitely meh. For about two hours you are going to play with few other people as if each of you was playing singleplayer game about performing own moves and turns in a perfect vaccum.
It gets a lot of flak for not being a wargame that everyone expected, but the real issue comes from how poorly balanced it is and how many things ended up superflous in the end. Considering how expensive the game is and that price mostly covers for the artwork, it's simply not worth it.

tl;dr overpriced eyecandy

likme
likme

@Firespawn
even on the polish market it never cought on
Not with that price tag. You can get 2-3 great eurogames for what Scythe costs. The plastic pusher market isn't really here compared to the States, most are perfectly content with cubes and meeples if it means a lower price.
And honestly, while I like the art judging strictly by its quality, the fact how it screams "Chełmoński" to me makes me think more of all the soul-crushingly boring required reading I had to do in school than awesome battle mechs.

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Soft_member
It never caught on Polish market, because it has absurd price for Polish standards
This.
The game costs a tonne. If you want to peddle tabletops in Poland, good luck if you cross the 100 zlotych mark. If your game is really good or some sort of classic, you can try to push for 150 (like the big box set for Carcassonne or the super popular Polish-made Magnates), but that's all.
So when you can buy 3 other games for Scythe's price, no wonder it barely sold in Poland.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

Pic fucking related

@New_Cliche
Yes, it is pure dogshit that is very cleverly disguised.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@iluvmen

What isn't there to like about the board? It's a nice compromise between colourful and interesting and being easy to read. The mechs aren't super great, but they still have distinct silhouettes and identities, which is all they really need.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@askme
I just buy them for the minis

SniperWish
SniperWish

@TechHater
Pleb detected

TechHater
TechHater

@Spazyfool
Ive heard good stuff about TI, whats wrong with it?

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@Need_TLC
Considering the other minis are quality stuff and mecha ones look like someone printed them in his garage using low quality 3D printer... yeah

Methshot
Methshot

@eGremlin
Magnates
Translation when?
I know this game is very Polish in the subject it covers, but it still has great atmosphere and is fun to play, even if you don't exactly grasp the historical context. Still remember how my lecturer for Polish early modern history openly asked how many of us played this game, because it's the gameplay is the perfect illustration of what happens when powerful people have zero interest in working for common goals.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@Methshot
*because its gameplay

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@askme
I heard their pirate game that is basically a dota2 in a box was actually good but I haven't played it so what do I know

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@TechHater
It's a bad game.

The very thought of playing it again makes me want to throw up. It is my number one most hated game of all time.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Nude_Bikergirl

Do you have a more comprehensive answer as to what aspects of the game make you think it's the worst game of all time, or are you just mixing up 'I hate it' with 'it's bad'?

takes2long
takes2long

@TechHater
Nothing, he is just butthurt I crapped on Eclipse. He has probably never played TI3 because he is afraid of how amazing it is (or can't justify spending the $200 on all expansions and then never being able to find anyone to play it with).

viagrandad
viagrandad

I'll crosspost a bit with another thread, but go figure... anyway:

By the end of this month my pack will pretty much split up, at least physically. Each of us will start our student grant in different country, and even if I and another guy will be both in China, we could be on the other edges of the planet, that's how far we are.
Anyway, we stay more or less in similar timezones, so we figured it will be possible to still play boardgames via net.
Thing is, we don't know any pages nor soft for this. Any ideas?
And no it's no piracy bullshit, we can even pay the fee it that what's it takes, but genuine question - what are the tools and/or places to play boardgames online?

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@viagrandad

There are a few more basic ones, but the fanciest/shiniest is Tabletop Simulator. It has a buy in and official DLC, but the workshop is huge and you can find basically all the DLC games as compatible files elsewhere online.

FastChef
FastChef

@viagrandad
@BlogWobbles
This is your best option.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@viagrandad
Boardgamearena
Boiteajeux
Brettspielwelt
Vassal
Bunch of game specific sites like Snellman for Terra Mystica

Or Tabletop Simulator if you need shiny animations. It's paid though, unlike the rest.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@Poker_Star
Doesn't even have a lot of flash, since the art and and effects are shit.
Should have used shadowverse.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@New_Cliche

I enjoy it, and so do my friends. The action system is decent, and there's always a mandatory warmongery guy who fucks everything up instead of just building up points optimally, so there's plenty of amusement I've found.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

As much as I would like to play it to make sure it seems like degenesis falls under thing but it seems like its bigger in the EU?

iluvmen
iluvmen

@likme
I'd guess a third of the player base would disagree, but that isn't exactly inaccurate. There are nuggets of enjoyment which keep me playing, especially colony building and the voyeurism in how their lives play out, and I'd assume everyone who bought in has some mechanism they really enjoy repeating.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@Ignoramus
Rum and Bones 2nd Edition? It is pretty darn fun, just sucks that I have to invest heavily since post kickstarter product is not only scare but scalper heaven.

5mileys
5mileys

@Poker_Star
High production values don't necessarily mean lack of substance.

Methshot
Methshot

@Poker_Star
That's not what high production values means, you fucking penis.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Soft_member
really poor gaming experience

How so? I've only had the opportunity to play it a few times, but the gameplay itself seemed totally fine. The action boards have a really tight design, and all the different mobility tricks each faction gets make positioning your workers and resources fairly important even if you're not fighting all the time.

I feel like most of the hate for Scythe comes from people who were expecting it to be a giant robot fighty game instead of a resource management thing. And people who think it's overpriced, but a friend bought it so idgaf about that.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@Evil_kitten
2 am, too lazy to type up a rant about it again. I should save it next time so I can post it

@takes2long
Lmao what pathetic cuck logic is "he hates it because he wants to play it"

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@w8t4u
For starters it's imbalanced as fuck

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@WebTool
Mmmm. Fresh copypasta.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Emberfire

Bro of mine bought the game, loves it. I think the hate for it comes from people with different expectations of what it was going to be.

eGremlin
eGremlin

All hatred of scythe is perfectly justified. Game presents itself as focused on war and mechs. And then you get solo farm sim the game.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@eGremlin

I've never understood this argument. It only makes sense if you only look at the artwork rather than reading any of the description of press materials.

Fuck, 'Don't judge a book by its cover' is a saying for a reason.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@iluvmen
Not that user, but I played it and it is 100% a mediocre game at best, behind high production values. It even became so easy to break before the update we kept going only to see how it finished. In he end we didn't even want to finish a playthrough so we ended 3 years before the last fight.

I guess it was thanks to the fact that we played a print and play copy a friend did, so we didn't have any eyecandy to justify the rules.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Dreamworx
Get out of here Jakob

TreeEater
TreeEater

@Stupidasole
It was to try and undo 4th. They might have wanted to make all sorts of changes to the game to make it better, but there is only so much they could do without angering the already perma-rustled jimmes of 3.PF grognards.
True. Overall, I liked 5e. It was just full of so many inelegant flaws and crap that it will still not unseat 3.5 as my favorite edition.

@Carnalpleasure
People like you are the reason Veeky Forums is shit.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Dreamworx
Sorry if art is what most people's first impression of a game, is based on.

massdebater
massdebater

@Emberfire
Kemet will always be better than that overpriced, overhyped and unbalanced piece of shit

SniperWish
SniperWish

@eGremlin
If I was sold on "this game is epic space battles and giant convoys of epic mining ships, ruthless pirates vs law and order, exploration" stuff and it turned out to be "microsoft Excel, the game" i'd be pissed too.

In fact, that's why I stopped playing EVE Online. Because what it's sold as sure as hell isn't what it's like 99% of the time.

Playboyize
Playboyize

@WebTool
I think it helped undo a lot of the bloat that 3.5 had accumulated. You could practically fill a book case with nothing but 3.5 splat-books. At this goal, I think 5e did a decent job. That being said..

1- I'm disappointed they didn't go for greater innovation. 4e had some pretty decent things, and people flipped the table and ragequit because it was "too different". That's a load of shit for a lot of reasons, and it really just stiffles all innovation due to WotC 4e Traumatic Stress Disorder. I can only imagine that if the internet had been as universal as today during the 2e --> 3e transition, we'd still be playing Super 2E instead of Super 3.5E. I also think they did a good job of expanding some monsters; adding things like lair-traits with special abilities and descriptors really can help with designing encounters by giving you ideas. Not necessary for experienced DMs, sure, but for new people it's not bad.

2- HP bloat is still a thing, and that is one of my main complaints with modern D&D. How hard is it to make armor damage reduction or something?? Or just give higher level people the ability to shrug off blows (make an instant miss or take half-damage) at the expense of some action points/times per day?

3- Character creation is still inelegant, I concede, but I think it does do a good job of helping people who haven't played an RPG before get into the mindset. they have a number of options for players to consider, though I prefer FATE's style of "phases" of life.

3.5 seems more flexible in some ways, if only due to the absurd number of splat books. BUT if I was playing with a group of TTRPG virgins and I was picking a D&D edition, 5e is probably the one I'd go to.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@StonedTime
What you carefully forget to mention it the game being extremely unbalanced and often forcing you to pull military actions, which the game can't support properly, since it's worker placement game about harvesting.
As in - you start the game and are already fucked.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@PackManBrainlure

Can you explain this? Because having played the game I have no idea what you're talking about.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@Emberfire
7th sea, 2e.

Hey, let's have a motherfucking pirate game with no rules for dueling or to ship combat, rolls are impossible to actually fail (you just add more complications), and if you kill anyone except in immediate self-defense you stop being a hero and become an NPC.

Good fucking job tricking everyone out of their money, Wick.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@Emberfire
Local Game store finally are selling theses on the shelves been thinking about getting it, what's the down sides to the game play?

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Nude_Bikergirl
The price itself. You can get two other good games for that pricetag. It's been statistically proven Rusviet (red) wins more often than other factions, no matter what. Objectives are often impossible to meet due to your starting position alone. Combat was most likely just to push mechas, but serves zero purpose gameplay-wise (you are in fact going to lose if you are planning to start war).
And this could all worked out somehow (maybe, I know enough people who are into masochistic games), if not the biggest issue the game has: it's a solo builder game. There is pretty much zero interaction between players, you can hardly affect someone else (since combat is shit and other options are even more lackluster) and in the end everyone just performs their actions separately, as if other players weren't even there.
In the end it feels more like a poorly optimalised PC singleplayer game released as a boardgame due to no coding skills than actual boardgame.

@King_Martha
Read above

Oh, and Jakob, stop furiously defend your game. It's a given you will pop-out each time there is a Scythe thread during CET daytime, but seriously, stop. It already reached the point of meme.

idontknow
idontknow

@Firespawn
and if you kill anyone except in immediate self-defense you stop being a hero and become an NPC
Say what
I was actually interested in playing a swashbuckling RPG but this sounds fucking retarded, as does the rest of it

King_Martha
King_Martha

@idontknow

Yeah, he's right. There a section in the GM part that does say that no PC can kill except in self defence, or they stop being a PC. It caused a fair shitstorm in 7th Sea threads during the beta release.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@iluvmen
In the end it feels more like a poorly optimalised PC singleplayer game released as a boardgame due to no coding skills than actual boardgame.
damn

hairygrape
hairygrape

@hairygrape
If it helps, an RTS game (Iron harvest) using the same setting was already announced.
And I think it's the right direction. Don't get me wrong, Scythe is not as horrible as people make it most of the time, but the extremely limited interaction is just awful. When a single game takes between 1.5-2.5 hours, it kinda sucks you are just sitting around the board and the interaction boils down to casual chatter you can have about the weather outside, but not in-game.
So it's a product as described by OP. Looks pretty, is really well crafted when it comes to aesthetics part, but gameplay is simply mediocre. Half of it is Frankensteined from other games, so if you play a lot of euro, you can even pin-point what was picked from where.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@likme
It's nothing special, but it serves it purpse.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Need_TLC
but it serves it purpse.
Causing brain cancer?

Snarelure
Snarelure

Someone make a "Virgin Eclipse vs Chad TI" pic.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@TechHater
TI is an amazing game, but the fun increases linearly with number of players and it requires literally 8-24 hours to get to completion with 6 people. The game sucks because of the logistics it expects from your group.

RavySnake
RavySnake

Post 10/10 games with mediocre production values

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@lostmypassword
@Need_TLC
@Emberfire
Dohohoho
GeeDubya ams eye rite guies! Ams eye funnies yet?!
Fuck off.

farquit
farquit

@RavySnake
Are 10/10 games with shit production values allowed?

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Nude_Bikergirl

I'd seek second opinions elsewhere. Veeky Forums is a weird outlier to the general consensus.

5mileys
5mileys

Really disappointed by the system. The setting and the art is great in It's conception. But the rules are bad, combat is broken with player's easily becoming invencible just by wearing armor (forcing the game master to create encounters where It's obvius every enemy will have amor pearcing or do corruption damage to be considered a thread do the party.) Later adventures are pretty much copied idead from other sources. I don't really care if you take inspiration or take some parts of other places to make a adventure, but blatantly using Princess Mononoke Iron Box, to keep the forest spirit head is too much for me. I paid for the books, at least they could make some effort in keeping the adventure quality.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@Lord_Tryzalot
t. redshirt.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@5mileys
I didn't know that it was that bad. I kind of wanted to try the system because GMs don't have to roll too.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@Stark_Naked
I agree with @5mileys
about characters become OP so easily that combat is not fun anymore. In this game, even with with medium armor, you are nigh unkillable. In addition, with 13-ish attribute and proper boons, it's impossible to fail a check unless GM goes full autistic and impose like -5~-7 penalty.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@SniperWish
Go home, Jakob. Nobody likes your overpriced plastic pusher

Methnerd
Methnerd

@Emberfire
That picture is exactly what's wrong with it. It's a visual mess on top of everything else

Evilember
Evilember

@likme
I lol'd.

takes2long
takes2long

@RavySnake
I think TM looks pretty good. I wish power bowls didn't look like 3 cancerous testicles strung together

5mileys
5mileys

@RavySnake
I feel like TM would be a god-tier game if it had a better theme and threw in a few Ameritrash elements. It's a solid game, but it's nigh impossible to sell it to anyone that isn't diehard into eurotrash games already.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@5mileys
Ameritrash elements
diehard into eurotrash
do you talk like this IRL? jesus dude you sound autistic as fuck

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@PurpleCharger
They're common terms in the online board gaming community to describe different styles of board games. Get that stick out of your ass.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@lostmypassword
user said "nice miniatures".

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@PurpleCharger
People say butthurt IRL

Get with the times gramps

hairygrape
hairygrape

@Lord_Tryzalot
I mean the mechanics of all of the games are legit mediocre now that FFG isn't doing the RPGs.

But the production values! Actually they've taken a pretty significant nosedive too.

You may have a point, user.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Harmless_Venom
"""""People""""" say butthurt IRL
ftfy

Spamalot
Spamalot

@Emberfire
Scythe is really, really mediocre.

askme
askme

@TechHater
The only bad thing about TI3 is that it's fuckhueg.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@New_Cliche
I think is a mix between eclipse and terra mystica.

I like it represents very well its theme.

Don-t play it if you dislike euros.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@TechHater
Eclipse does not have high production values, the space ships were made with other game molds...

StonedTime
StonedTime

@BunnyJinx
It means that despite all the money that went into the development of the game, the final product still ended up shitty. I'm still new to the hobby so I can't point to any examples that haven't been stated already, but in video games it would be things like Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, and Battlefront 2015

Inmate
Inmate

@farquit
Even with the lavish praise it's received, even with the lofty BGG ranking it has, I still thought Castles of Burgundy was going to be as dull as its artwork.

Boy was I wrong.

It's clever, tight, quick, rewarding and very tense towards the last few turns.

More than any other game I've ever played, it just seems like every single mechanic fits together seamlessly. Other games might have something clunky or something that may be improved upon. They're developed in a way where mechanics are added to each other over time and then attempts are made to harmonise them and trim the fat. But Castles of Burgundy is more like the goddess Athena, emerging fully formed from the head of Zeus.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@Inmate
That said, there are three shortcomings with the game, all in the components:

- The vacuum tray is shit for storing and dividing the components
- The green (pasture) and pale green (technology) tiles are way too similar in colour.
- The player boards would benefit from being made of thicker card

Firespawn
Firespawn

@WebTool
Not to mention that the idiocy of the ASIs is actually defended for being "instant gratification" proving that D&D really has entered a new era, an era where its fanbase is made up of spoiled vidya-playing twats who expect to "level up" right after the tutorial.

wat?
also the 5e xp curve is steeper than 3.5's so i'm not sure what this means

@Playboyize
i would argue 5e chargen is elegant and just fucking bland
it's done a great job of making chargen and levelups much easier to handle than previous editions and giving you more structured choices than previously so you can make decisions about your character's story and past while you're picking your mechanical options

but it's bland, because your choice between fighter subclasses is "have more options in combat" and "have no options in combat" and barbarian is similar enough it could be a berserker subclass and ranger is just fighter plus not enough druid spells and every magic user is a wizard with a different spell list.
certain race + class combinations are objectively better than others and if you don't pick them you'll be fucking over one of your few +1s, so most goblins are wizards and most half-orcs are barbarians and most elves are rangers.
whatever you build in 5e, it will be a Dungeon-Ready Adventurer with practiced skill at murder and suicidal curiosity, because 5e has one game experience and it's Spellcasters Getting Into Fights.

and at that point you might as well play video games, cause they're a damn sight better at it.

girlDog
girlDog

@RavySnake
I like TM, but if you play it repeatedly or look up statistics, you soon realize that what at first looked like a balanced game with difficult decisions at every corner really isn't. And that's a shame.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@hairygrape

8e was a big improvement over 7th, but I guess I don't really disagree that it's mediocre.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@girlDog
Explain. I've been thinking about purchasing Terra Mystica and now you're spooking me.

idontknow
idontknow

@StrangeWizard
Don't play it if you like euros, dislike euros or simply have any form of self-respect
Here, ftfy.

Methnerd
Methnerd

@LuckyDusty
bloodrage

Literally my favourite board game, fite me irl nerd

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Methnerd
I see blood rage getting a lot of hate over in the board game general. I'm not sure what to think.

WebTool
WebTool

@TalkBomber
A Terra Mystica game
In other words, it's just a reskin of an already existing game, in case you were one of the 3 people that plays euros for the theme and didn't like that particular one.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Stark_Naked
It really depends on who you're playing with. Like all classless games, there's problems with balance if your players are always picking only the most optimal abilities. But if your players are picking their abilities to be thematic to that character it can be pretty fun to play. Our group spent a few months playing it and had a pretty wide range of effectiveness from the characters we built.

We never ran the prebuilt modules, so I can't attest to how much they lift from other sources.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@haveahappyday
@Methnerd
I rarely play a bg i own more than 4-5 times, but i would say the following about BR:

- Great theme and well integrated into rules
- Great minis
- Fun Gameplay
- Swingy as fuck.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@WebTool
AAAH USE PARAGRAPHS CUNT

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