EDH/ Commander General /edhg/

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

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Thread question
How important is hate in your group? How much slots dedicated to hate, is too much?

All urls found in this thread:
http://www.mtgcommander.net
http://www.tappedout.net
http://www.edhrec.com/
http://manabasecrafter.com/
http://gatherer.wizards.com/
http://magiccards.info/
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/budget-karametra-enchantress-2/
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/sen-triplets-from-breya-precon/
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/164331905138/would-having-the-yearly-commander-product-be
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/saskias-big-balls/
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/gay-brotendo/
Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@Garbage Can Lid
How important is hate in your group? How much slots dedicated to hate, is too much?
I guess that depends on the definition of 'hate'. We all pack reasonable things where possible- your Disenchant effects, Beast Within, Wraths, some graveyard hate. "Broad" stuff. But I don't think anybody plays cards that are specifically to thunderfuck one strategy or deck, beyond "graveyard", but that's because it's such a common thing that I think basically any deck needs a Relic of Progenitus at minimum.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

What are the most fun monocoloured generals?

I already have monoblack (Toshi, might get turned into big mana bloodchief drana eventually), and I'm enjoying it. Figure I might as well have my next decks follow in a logical series.

w8t4u
w8t4u

How do you feel about dedicated hate cards? If the majority of players in your group are running black decks and someone casts Celestial Purge, how would you react?

Emberfire
Emberfire

last time i went to my edh group, one of the guys in my pod brought his girlfriend and gave her his high-powered animar deck to play. he scooped after missing a land drop on turn 5, pulled his chair right behind her, and told her what to play for the rest of the game.

they lost, but that's still kind of a shitty thing to do. guy is already kind of an asshole so that's not helping matters.

would it be a dick move to request not to be placed with that guy again?

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Emberfire
Is this a sort of store-level "event", or just your group having fun?

If it's an 'event', next time it happens say "Yeah, you can't give her advice. She's playing, not you." and if it persists, call the TO.

If it's just for fun, say "Fuck no. Go sit back in your god damned chair and let her play." If he doesn't, continue the game without them.

iluvmen
iluvmen

So nim's deathmantle and peregrine drake, is that an infinite with a sac outlet? I only just purchased deathmantle and didnt realize it was another method at infinite mana beside deadeye nav

Methnerd
Methnerd

So i want to make werewolf tribal with ruric tharr as the commander because ulrich sucks but werewolves on their own don't seem like enough to win a game. What are some other wincons/powerful cards to use in gruul for a werewolf deck? Nothing too expensive please i am trying to keep it cheap

Skullbone
Skullbone

@iluvmen
It can be, assuming you have 4 mana to pay for the first Deathmantle trigger.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Skullbone
peregrine drake etb untaps 5 mana, a.altar pay 3, sac drake and get 2 mana, and you have 4 mana avaiable to pull off the combo. nice unless i fucked up somewhere

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@StonedTime
No yeah you're right. For some reason I was thinking the Mantle had to be equipped to the Drake in the first place, that was my fuckup.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Methnerd
dragonlair spider's a good yet cheap card in gruul commander

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@Methnerd
Make it group slug and win through combat.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@Harmless_Venom
Ooh nice forgot about that one. I wanted to run triumph of the horde anyway so the spider is in for sure

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

That feel when no Sigarda Voltron GF who sits on your face while calling you a naughty Tribal player

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@haveahappyday
I'll be a boy n do that 2 you

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@LuckyDusty

Gross.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Garbage Can Lid
Thread question
Not very. I run the usual suite of removal and Wraths for the colors I play, but I don't build stuff that will buttfuck one player.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Garbage Can Lid
Thread question: we usualy have 4 players in my group. Me and one other guy play a good bunch of hate, the third mostly does Johnny tryhard combo or copie stuff but runs not that much hate and allways neglects his mana base. The other one is the timmiest of all Timmys, there is only ramp and big boys in his decks. I'd say there can't be too much hate in a deck if you don't mind beeing the first target on the table.

Also what's your opinion on pic related for multi colored decks ?

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Garbage Can Lid
How important is hate in your group? How much slots dedicated to hate, is too much?

When you start getting into a lot of dedicated color hate thats a bit much. When large chunks of your decks are dead cards because someone that you wanted to hatefuck isn't playing, thats probably when you have done too much. If you are talking about just running more graveyard or artifact hate because theres a lot of it in your meta, those cards are never really dead, since I haven't seen an EDH game without some of those.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@Garbage Can Lid
I have a deck that is specifically dedicated to hating one of my friend's Norin chaos deck, because fuck that noise.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@StonedTime
Unless you have something to do with the token, it is just a shit sorcery speed 3 mana kill spell.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@w8t4u
It also does some colourfixing. And it's *exile* removal, which can be important.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

Should I make Saskia Ball Lightning or Vanilla Creatures?

massdebater
massdebater

@StonedTime
I prefer pic related.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Sir_Gallonhead
Patron of the moon, in which the main goal is to kill people with a draft chaff card from Amonkhet. Killing people with it is so satisfying.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@TurtleCat
What's your wincon?

Mine is getting a bunch of sphinxes out and defending them.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

What is a good commander that is fun to play against? I have casual meta while I am more victory driven and I want my friends to have fun while still not goig group hig retarded.

farquit
farquit

@Ignoramus
Doesn't matter for my group. My friends get pissy at me no matter what I play.

I counter spells? I become archenemy.
I cast a board wipe? I become archenemy.
I use spot removal? I become archenemy.
I exile graveyards? I become archenemy.
I attack for a lot of damage? I become archenemy.

takes2long
takes2long

@TurtleCat
kill people with a draft chaff card from Amonkhet
What the fuck card are you talking about

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@massdebater
Sweet. I didn't knew that card yet. It's perfect to fuck with Zur players

Inmate
Inmate

What colors attract what people?

I think blue attracts turbo autists and "too be fair you have to have a pretty high IQ to understand x" types

tfw my favorite general is Teferi

Flameblow
Flameblow

thread question
Hate of all kind is important none more so than stuff like sadistic sacrament, bitter ordeal, jester's cap, etc. Building a deck to hate on one deck in particular is also fine especially if they stack which some do or go for the same shit every game.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@massdebater
In multi-coloured decks, it can get a little black.

That said, as a mono-black player, I love it so much.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

Say, /edhg/, in mono-blue is this card playable? You can basically turn dead cards into Harrow which is something blue doesn't normally have access to.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

If i use this to get a creature back from my graveyard and i sacrifice a creature with persist, will i still get back the creature in my graveyard?

happy_sad
happy_sad

@Inmate
honestly the most fun deck i've ever played is kefnet

you just play kefnet turn 3 and then draw-go, countering everything that threatens you and dumping your remaining mana into drawing cards with kefnet.

you'd think the deck would just be a worse version of thrasios, but kefnet being indestructible is like... really good.

plus being monoblue lets you get more value out of high tide and caged sun.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

0-2 Wort, the Raidmother
3-6 Chainer
7-8 Rakdos the Defiler
9 Phage

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@w8t4u
Know your meta. If someone in my meta played Kor Castigator (where there are no eldrazi at all) for whatever reason, I'd be confused.
If the white player casts Mass Calcify (as he does), I wouldn't bat an eye.
Likewise, we all ran black and the white player decided to run Celestial Purge, my only question would be why he's not shooting for more card advantage with something like Cleanse or Fumigate

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@Fried_Sushi
yes

Skullbone
Skullbone

@farquit

It is not that they gang up on me or complain, but I am way more into MTG than they are and put more thought into my decks, so if I'd go all out, I would make the games unfun for them.

@Inmate

I think that is an unfair and a real low-hanging joke. Of course blue attracts turbo-autists, because it is the most versatile color, which allows the largest possibility to brew. Blue can do anything other colors can, while 90% of red cards are burn spells or "goblins".

WebTool
WebTool

@CodeBuns

Spamalot
Spamalot

@CodeBuns
Chainer it is
@WebTool
Sorry I didn't do the greentext, must've triggered your retard button

happy_sad
happy_sad

Is this a Fuse card? Or is it one or the other?

Snarelure
Snarelure

@happy_sad
One or other, fuse cards will have the reminder text

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Fried_Sushi
It also brings your commander from the command zone if you sacrificed them.

likme
likme

Anything similar to this? I'd be using it to bounce and recast my own stuff for benefit

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@likme
If blue, Equilibrium and Cowardice

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@likme
@ZeroReborn
and crystal shard

Firespawn
Firespawn

@Spazyfool
@ZeroReborn
No blue, unfortunately.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Firespawn
what colors and what are you bouncing?

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Firespawn
theres some in white but it gets harder if blue isnt the color. stonecloaker and dust elemental for white

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Firespawn
if you're abusing ETB triggers that's one thing, but if you're after cast triggers it's a whole different thing.

what's your plan?

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Gigastrength
@Flameblow
Just repeatable ways to bounce/flicker Saskia in order to choose a new target. I should probably look at white

farquit
farquit

@Spazyfool
Mass Calcify isn't really a dedicated hate card. It's like a colorless player using All is Dust or an Artifact player using Scourglass. It's just an asymmetrical card the player knows they'll be on the long end of and other players will usually be on the short end of.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@eGremlin
conjurers closet

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@eGremlin
in that case, flicker stuff is way better than returning to your hand. you've only got three opponents so the max number of times you want to flicker her is like 2, so repeatable stuff isn't all that important.

really good options would be flickerwisp and restoration angel because they're creatures attached to a flicker effect, but you can also play cloudshift.

why do you need it to be repeatable?

Firespawn
Firespawn

@likme
You can always come out of the closet.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Poker_Star
I like having things be repeatable as opposed to one-and-done

Effects on a stick, I guess

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@RumChicken
but you only need it like two times. that's a lot of wasted mana, and it's not even really that good.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@RumChicken
Hey kid, ya ever get your dick sucked by an eldrazi?

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Sir_Gallonhead
I've built a deck for each monocolor, here's my favorites:
W: Sram, Senior Edificer
U: Teferi, Temporal Archmage
B: Liliana, Defiant Necromancer
R: Zada Hedron Grinder
G: Yeva, Nature's Herald
If you like Stax, Teferi and Lili are fun. If you like drawing cards Zada and Sram are great (or any of them really, fuck I love drawing cards). If you're a Timmy tired of getting board wiped then go Yeva.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@RumChicken
you really don't want erratic portal in your saskia deck. it's way too slow for an aggressive deck. flickerwisp and restoration angel should be enough flickering for the entire deck and they're both aggressive creatures.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@happy_sad
I look at him, and then I look at erebos or thrasios, and I just can't figure out why I'd want to.

Methnerd
Methnerd

@Dreamworx
i like him more than erebos because i like monoblue more than monoblack

i like him more than thrasios because he's indestructible and wraths don't affect me at all

SniperGod
SniperGod

So what's the win condition of Teferi? Looking at EDHrec and I don't see what his wincon is.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@SniperGod
which teferi?

TechHater
TechHater

@Garbage Can Lid
not black
not also the color of money

you had one fucking job

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@RumChicken
toss in alot of o-ring bodies like fiend hunter or angel of condemnation. protects from wipes and neat tricks with flickers. for reusable stuff, you are barking up the wrong tree

Spamalot
Spamalot

@StonedTime
Temporal Archmage

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Spamalot
mana rocks and the chain veil, get infinite planeswalker activations for your turn and infinite mana, draw your deck, jtms ult or labman

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@Spamalot
Teferi is all stax all the time. And the wincon is what @Sharpcharm
said

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@Spamalot
He often goes infinite with the Chain Veil and draws his whole deck.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@Sharpcharm
How do I infinite mana though?

@BinaryMan
teach me your secrets user I don't know what stax is. if I post my deck list i cobbled together can you help me?

Skullbone
Skullbone

@whereismyname
Stax is misery with a side dish of pain. It's based around resource denial and making things more expensive to play

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Spamalot
something something deepglow skate

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@whereismyname
you do teferi's -1 over and over again on the chain veil and some big mana rocks until he dies, then recast him with all the extra mana you made. chain veil is kinda fucky in how it works so you immediately get all the extra activations of teferi from before added to the "new" one. just keep looping this with teferi dying over and over and eventually you'll have a million mana and a million extra planeswalker activations for the turn. you then use teferi's +1 enough times to draw your deck and cast the wincon of your choice.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@Garbage Can Lid

My decks are made around hate simply because my playgroup just runs the same decks again and again. I'm currently changing out my swamps to Snow-Covered Swamps just because the Ob-Nixilis landfall deck runs them + Extraplanar Lens.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@whereismyname
Say you have The Chain Veil, Gilded Lotus, and Teferi. Activate the chain veil, then -1, untapping the TCV, GL, and two lands. Activate the chain veil again, then -1, doing the same thing. Do this until Teferi runs out of Loyalty and dies.

Now, when you cast Teferi again, all those chain veil activations apply to the new instance of him. He can activate his abilities probably 5 or 6 times, depending on how much loyalty you had to work with earlier. Use his untap ability enough to generate the mana you'll need to cast him next time, then keep doing Chain Veil activations or drawing cards. The next time you cast Teferi, he should be able to activate his abilities like 12 times. It just keeps on going like that.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@whereismyname
@Nojokur
this guy explained it better than i did, listen to him

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Fuzzy_Logic
Anyone??

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@VisualMaster
i'd rather just run walking atlas and have a good amount of draw unless i was going for some kind of big reanimator thing

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

Kefnet or Kami for mono blue card draw action

viagrandad
viagrandad

@TalkBomber
kefnet: indestructible, cheap, good blocker at all stages of the game, can draw multiple cards per turn when you get enough rocks out

kami: cheaper by 1, but helps everyone, only gets you 1 card per turn but does it free

kefnet is probably better in this comparison unless you're actively trying to build group hug

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@viagrandad
@Methnerd
@happy_sad
You guys are actually making kefnet sound really awesome.

iluvmen
iluvmen

Fun old cards you've never seen anyone else play.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@iluvmen
cause you lose out on the good half of your reanimation targets.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@Raving_Cute
Not like you have a ton of reanimation effects in mono-white or most nonblack white color pairs.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Raving_Cute
If you have two different creature combos in your graveyard, you can split both of them up and win either way.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Raving_Cute
You make the piles, so you'll always end up with something desirable.

Inmate
Inmate

@Fuzzy_Logic
It ain't bad.

SniperWish
SniperWish

why is heroic intervention so expensive? rotation and fumigate in standard?

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

I'm trying to help my friend make his budget enchantress deck playable. He're the current list I've come up with for him - any obvious suggestions ($5 or under) or cuts to be made before I send him the list?
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/budget-karametra-enchantress-2/

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

I want to build a creature centric deck but I'm having a hard time choosing between Ezuri, Claw of Progress and Selvala, Heart of the Wilds

hairygrape
hairygrape

@SniperWish
You got me excited. I have a foil. 5 bucks isn't expensive.

Skullbone
Skullbone

1-3 Kefnet
4-6 Zada
7-9 Kruphix
0 idk man, maybe a +1/+1 counter commmander?

DeathDog
DeathDog

Any other creatures to keep attacks at bay? This seems good already.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@Skullbone
Truly you have been blessed by best god! I hope you like drawing tons of cards and slamming fatties.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@BunnyJinx
wedge and shard gods when

hairygrape
hairygrape

@DeathDog
Having a Stuffy, Reck, Spitemare, and Furnace in play and slapping down a Blasphemous Act might be legally defined as a sexual experience. 156 damage coming someone's way

JunkTop
JunkTop

will ABUR duals ever be reprinted?
I want to use a tryhard manabase without spending like a tryhard or using a piece of printed out paper in a sleeve like a dork

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@DeathDog
Letting your opponents attack at all
Poor form desu

viagrandad
viagrandad

@hairygrape
And then you flash in Dictate

Inmate
Inmate

@JunkTop
will ABUR duals ever be reprinted?
They are on the reserve list, which is a list wizards has sworn they they will never reprint cards from.

But you can believe what you want

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Inmate
I had not heard of that list before.
and boy is it long

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@TurtleCat
first time hearing about the reserved list
Buckle up, it only gets worse from here.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@GoogleCat
Shit, forgot to uncheck private. Deck should be visible now. My bad.

eGremlin
eGremlin

So, I decided it was time to remedy never having built a mono green EDH deck, so I decided to put together Sasaya.

Anyone got some good Sasaya tech? I think I got most of the best cards covered, but I'd love to see some stuff that isn't necessarily on EDHrec

FastChef
FastChef

@StonedTime
Good with Mazirek

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@Garbage Can Lid
Everydeck I build I want it to be able to address all threats. This started with my first from scratch deck which is Queen Marchesa. Mardu is spoiled for removal. Nothing is safe.

Ever since then I'm trying to do better. Need to get my Sultai and Grixis decks in shape but they are such whacked out messes with bad decklists I may just gut them.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@eGremlin
Forests.

I think she's cool, and was considering her.

I'm just worried that she goes all-in on her schtick too hard, and I might be better off with selvala or something.

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Soft_member
trying to run a fairly low forest count, mostly trying to instead run stuff that either tutors for forests to my hand, or draws and replaces itself, so that I either draw more draw, a forest or a forest tutor. It keeps the deck flowing much better than flipping Sasaya, having 200 mana and nothing but 8 forests in your hand.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@GoogleCat
@RumChicken
Is Karametra set in stone? While thematic, it doesn't do much with such a low creature count. Remember it's a cast trigger, not etb. If you can negotiate on the commander, consider Selvala or Dragonlord Dromoka if you can splurge. Krond if you want to be flavorful and on-budget, though a bit crappy.
I don't see an Argothian Enchantress even though they're just under 5 bucks and well worth it.
I notice you've committed to the Wild Growth suite of enchantments. Consider slotting Arbor Elf, Voyaging Satyr, and particularly Krosan Restorer to really capitalize on the ramp.
Also consider a Cathar's Crusade and Sacred Mesa.

Snarelure
Snarelure

all my commanders are gods
rhonas, iroas, kruphix, erebos

I need to pick something else

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Snarelure
Karona

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@happy_sad
There are inklings of some great bat god on Ixalan. It might just end up being a demon though.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@GoogleCat
where?

SniperGod
SniperGod

What's the wincon in a Sisay deck?

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@Snarelure

Do it!

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@SniperGod
Tutor out planeswalkers

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

tfw your first commander is super op
every other deck you build feels lackluster

Methshot
Methshot

@Methnerd
Ruric Thar is fucking busted

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Snarelure
You need Scarab and Locust God still

SniperWish
SniperWish

I think I have a deckbuilding problem. Just threw together lists for Kynaios, Elesh, and Damia. 7 decks already seemed like a lot

DeathDog
DeathDog

@GoogleCat
I like to go for Stormtide Leviathan + Archetype of Imagination

TechHater
TechHater

@DeathDog
Windborn Muse?

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

0- Sasaya
1- Vial Smasher
2- Experiment Kraj
3- Kefnet
4- Ludevic + Kraum
5- W Bruna
6- Hapatra
7- Ishai
8- 8 1/2 Tails
9- Sram

Snarelure
Snarelure

@Supergrass
If I remember, it was hinted at in one of the Uncharted Realms stories, but this might be the only appearance of it on a card. There's a Bat Imp creature that could be related to it as well.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Snarelure
And here it's actually described on the back.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@DeathDog
en-kor creatures can dump their damage onto another creature you control (e.g. Stuffy). don't forget Guilty Conscience and indestructibles (Boros Charm works wonders).

SniperGod
SniperGod

@Snarelure
this
@kizzmybutt

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

Best duo to match with vial smasher? I want to keep the Grixis colors

TreeEater
TreeEater

@Need_TLC
Kraum is a decent beater who draws you cards fairly frequently. Silas being the same CMC as Vial smasher is a detriment and he's very build-around. Ludevic is just trash.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@Methshot
How so?

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@likme
Cloudstone Curio

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Need_TLC
Kraum lets you do zombie storm, which is fun.

Illusionz
Illusionz

I want to sacrifice, I want to reanimate, and I want to win through beatdown and control.

What's my commander?

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

Wizards most recent attempt at Commander is in shambles
they've left you in charge as a hail mary/scapegoat and want you to "fix" what they've already started on instead of working from scrap since they already got the art
2018 is focused around the Tyrant/Dominance mechanic, a keyword for when you have more of any kid of permanent or life than any other player
There's an artifact heavy esper deck with a sacrifice theme and a soldier token subtheme
a rakdos deck with a hellbent commander and a mass discard and groupslug theme
an abzan deck with taxes and land themes
a mono green centaur/druid deck
and a gruul/naya deck in dire straights with a token theme
What's the first thing you do?

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Illusionz
Vish Kal is pricy mana-wise but he's a self serving instant speed sac outlet that can either swing tall or snipe opponent's creatures

idontknow
idontknow

@Illusionz
Marchesa, the Black Rose fits what you want to the letter.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@Illusionz
any BUG commander should do the trick
UB for the control, GB for the reanimate, and GU for the beatdown

Emberfire
Emberfire

@BinaryMan
Print Greater Good on a body, but activatable from the command zone.

Watch format combust into flames.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Illusionz
?

Emberburn
Emberburn

@PackManBrainlure
Sidisi, Tasigur, Mimeoplasm already taken in my group
O-okay

SniperGod
SniperGod

@BinaryMan
Commander products are going to be only four decks from now on. Apparently market research showed most people consider four players to be ideal.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@Garbage Can Lid
Someone saved my OC

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@BunnyJinx
I save all the OC, no matter how bland.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@kizzmybutt
Did you catch the bad translation threads?

hairygrape
hairygrape

@StonedTime
I think they're great and all but saving them is a no-go, besides a handful for the memories.
Reposting them would make them go stale real quick, and posting them outside of those threads will require an explanation.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@hairygrape
I guess.

TechHater
TechHater

@hairygrape
Nah

FastChef
FastChef

@Firespawn
See, even the translator knows Planeswalkers are just merchandising.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

Reminder that if you're not playing card advantage in EDH you're literally playing at a huge disadvantage.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@StonedTime
Tried to make my own. Not sure what languages they used to get their results. I just used a bunch of random ones.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@Dreamworx
Talk about /pol/ approved translation.

RumChicken
RumChicken

game knights is sponsored by WotC

welp i guess there is no hope for redemption for this show

Illusionz
Illusionz

@Garbage Can Lid
How important is hate in your group? How much slots dedicated to hate, is too much?
grave hate and artifact hate is a must in my group usually 4-5 slots for both combined is good enough sense im probably going to be tutoring for them

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@RumChicken
You didn't realize that after the horror that was the episode with the screeching cunts from MTA?

hairygrape
hairygrape

@Garbage Can Lid
How important is hate in your group? How much slots dedicated to hate, is too much?
There is no such thing as too much hate, this summer there was a board game convention in my city and people came from around the country to play MtG, yet many of them refused to play EDH with us because our meta was "too oppressive".

Skullbone
Skullbone

@hairygrape
To this day people at my LGS still don't understand why I run Relic of Progenitus, no matter how many times I tell them that at worst it's 2 mana draw a card, and at best it's 2 mana eliminate a player.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Nude_Bikergirl
i figured they were but now its official and beyond saving

Spamalot
Spamalot

so i have all the c17 decks sealed and ive decided that they are not worth keeping around. is now a good time to sell sealed c17 stuff?

Supergrass
Supergrass

got paid today
bought 4 vedalkin orrarys
this is probably a good way to spend my money

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Illusionz
meren or marchesa

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@Supergrass
Wishing I picked up more when they were still $5

Supergrass
Supergrass

@BinaryMan
Damn the reserve list and print cards anyways except dual lands

Booteefool
Booteefool

What are the best ways to tap down your own Howling Mine in an artifact-heavy deck? Clock Of Omens and Inspiring Statuary? Anything else?

cum2soon
cum2soon

@BinaryMan
Probably just use it as an excuse to reprint stuff. All the ideas sound generic as fuck.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Booteefool
Mm?

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/sen-triplets-from-breya-precon/

Where the fuck do I take this deck? Can I get some feedback?

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Supergrass
I have two of them and don't use either. I only use one Leyline in my Memnarch, which is strictly better anyway, save for it being blue.
Only use it has is to being able to spend your mana you saved for counterspells, I just don't find it useful

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Gigastrength
Hmm, sorry, it does look a little useless unless I can reliably pump out a million artifact tokens. I'll put it on the list but I don't think it'll stick.

Fwiw I'm drafting a Jori En deck with lots of instants and mana rocks

eGremlin
eGremlin

@cum2soon
Everything is generic at this point, it only matters if it's fun.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@eGremlin
it only matters if it's fun

I love how people say this as if this isn't completely subjective. You can't make a sealed product that everyone will think is fun. Better off filling it full of value and needed reprints along with a decent commander then letting players build their own decks they think are fun.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@Lord_Tryzalot
I disagree. You can try to make a product that "enough" people will find fun. Do not let 'perfect' be the enemy of 'good'. It's much more important, in my opinion, to put out decks that serve as good skeletons for new players to build around, than to cram them full of "value", because then they just get snapped up by people wanting to gut them and sell the singles.

girlDog
girlDog

@Stark_Naked
because then they just get snapped up by people wanting to gut them and sell the singles.
Print more then. Not a hard concept.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@Booteefool
clock of omens

@Emberfire
not tapping one artifact infinite amount of times
not making a bajillion myrs

there are like three other cards that work like myr retriever.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@girlDog
And then the people just buy those, until the singles inside are not worth buying and reselling. It could be weeks or months before it hits that point, and the people who actually want to PLAY with the decks are able to get ahold of them.

If you want a 2 dollar Mana Crypt, just write "MANA CRYPT" on a bulk rare, you cheap fuck.

Evilember
Evilember

@Emberfire
Options are limited. It is just the first thing I thought of.

And awesome. She's the best.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Lord_Tryzalot
I love how you take a subjective situation and apply a subjective counterpoint.
Decks usually come in a series of themes, which consumers can easily grasp the general picture of and choose between.

Comparing the decks poised and previous commander products, I think those are right in line. Half the Commander products pushed are pretty god awful and only good for scalping, but the other half are incredibly fun when you pit them against other sealed products and only take a handful of swaps before you can comfortably sit down at a normal EDH table.

farquit
farquit

You think any of the big counterspells and instant effects like Aethersnatch, Gather Specimins, Counterlash, etc. are worth running? Have they worked for anyone?

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Fuzzy_Logic
Pretty good card. He's underrated and very playable as long as you're not "cEDH".

Firespawn
Firespawn

@farquit
Gather Specimens is great if effects like Genesis Wave or 'huge ass White Sun's Zenith' are common enough, because you can slam it out in response to those spells and just get huge value, but if you can only ever 'reliably' steal like, one big creature with it, it's probably not worth the cost.

Counterlash is iffy, because ideally you want to have something that costs at least 6 to get out of it. Again, meta-dependent.

I like putting in Aethersnatch just for the occasional times it's a blowout.

FastChef
FastChef

@Snarelure
I'm looking forward to this creature in the next set.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@Flameblow
people buy up the sealed product for singles implying there wont be enough sealed product for playing
printing more single handedly solves this issue and brings the price of singles down
literally a win win and what every single other TCG does to great success
somehow think this is a subjective solution when its been proven successful multiple times in the past

You are an idiot.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@SniperWish
I use Mogg Infestation.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@Spazyfool
printing more single handedly solves this issue and brings the price of singles down

You say that like Wizards has the power to just print up, package, and ship-to-store new Commander decks at the drop of a hat. There's a reason they usually only do one or two print runs for supplemental sets.

Methshot
Methshot

@Stark_Naked
Fun doesn't sell. Because there isn't a single archetype in the game that most players find fun. People don't think that having a good skeleton is fun, even if someone have fun with a shit deck, he won't have as much fun the moment someone mentions that he basically lost money buying a shit precon with almost no value.

And you talk as if filling a precon with value makes it shitfest with no winning condition. Just adding in moxes already gives a shitton of value to the decks without changing how the deck works. And if you are talking about how the precons would fly off the shelves, it is a good problem for wotc, since they just need to print it until they realize that moxes are now worth less than a commander precon msrp.

Emberfire
Emberfire

I need to take a big steamy shit all over Bruna.

What cards help me achieve this?

Firespawn
Firespawn

@Spazyfool
I'm not exactly following.
What are you mad about?

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Methshot
fun doesn't sell
Then why are the Tribal commanders so popular?

WebTool
WebTool

@Methshot
NOBODY CAN HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION THAN ME
FUN IS SUBJECTIVE SO IT SHOULD NEVER BE A FACTOR
I WANT CHEAP CARDS REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Emberfire
Killing her before combat. Back to Nature. Rest In Peace.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Lord_Tryzalot
There's a reason they usually only do one or two print runs for supplemental sets
It is because supplemental sets barely sell after people who wanted their singles already got that. It is not because it's hard to print and ship more of the same product.

TechHater
TechHater

@RumChicken
Also Wing Shards.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@DeathDog
It's not that it's "hard", it's that it's time consuming and costly. To WotC, it's not worth the time and effort to print up multiple 'smaller' print runs until the shit starts stagnating on shelves. They'd rather do one print run, send the shit out to distributors, and be done with it.

They've also repeatedly said that they do not want to use things like Commander and Planechase and other sealed deck products like that to reprint 'chase' cards, specifically because they want those products to end up in the hands of people who will actually play them, rather than people buying the 30 dollar box to gut for the 60 dollars in singles inside it. So, you can "want" them to put 200 dollars worth of staples into a 35 dollar deck until you're blue in the face, and say that it's the "smartest" option, but they have been very clear that they don't want to do that.

MPmaster
MPmaster

@SniperWish
Target yourself with this while playing Purphoros. Had it done once on me and thought it was clever

Methshot
Methshot

I NEED PICTURES

PICTURES OF REPEATABLE GRAVEYARD RECURSION

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@whereismyname
@BinaryMan

It's not going to be as good as Stax but if you like the people you play with and want to build teferi you can always use his -1 to ramp out fatties too.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

In general, should I go with Chord of Calling or Tooth and Nail?

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@Methshot
No

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@Flameblow
In the context, fun is meaning that the deck will be fun for a small portion of the players, because it would be focused towards them, and somehow they would buy it even if it was shit and basically money lost. But it doesn't happen like that, even wotc knows that if they don't put in value inside precons, they don't sell. This is one of the biggest reasons why they are selling planeswalker decks with exclusive cards that can only be obtained in the precon instead of the usual intro packs.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@CodeBuns
Depends on what you're wanting.

Chord is better for if you can reasonably have dudes to help shrink the cost via Convoke, and/or if what you want is something to tutor silver bullets or specific cards (IE, if you want Chord to be a 'second' copy of a very specific card)

Tooth and Nail is for ending the game. Full stop. Chord can sometimes find the one combo piece you're missing, but usually you're gonna use it to find a specific creature-based answer to something. Tooth and Nail is what you use to find 2 creatures like Kiki and Conscripts to end the game.

Techpill
Techpill

@Nude_Bikergirl
In the context, fun is meaning that the deck will be fun for a small portion of the players, because it would be focused towards them, and somehow they would buy it even if it was shit and basically money lost.

Please tell me where I argued for the decks to be shitty.

I said that the *primary* focus of these products should be making something that casual players want to buy, play with, and modify. I never said it can't have good cards, I never said it has to be 'shit' or 'value lost', and I never implied people would still buy it even if that was so. I said that it's more important for the deck to be cohesive and enjoyable and a good "jumping off" point for a wide swath of players than for it to be crammed full of 30 dollar cards.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Stark_Naked
it's time consuming
Wotc and hasbro aren't doing charity. They would be literally printing money.

they said they do not want to do X
Don't give me this bullshit, the whole point was that you would be in charge to fix it. Otherwise the question would be "You are in charge of this shitshow, how fucked are you?"

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Nude_Bikergirl
This is one of the biggest reasons why they are selling planeswalker decks with exclusive cards that can only be obtained in the precon instead of the usual intro packs.

Wrongo. Every one of those "exclusive" cards is fucking terrible. On purpose. They underpower those cards by design because they don't want anyone to HAVE to go buy those precons to get specific singles for competitive play. Those precons are intended for new and casual players, and the 'exclusive' cards are shitty, by design, so that they don't have to worry about people snapping them off the shelves because they need 4x Nissa's Encouragement for Standard.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Techpill
I'm still lost.
What are you argueing for, no one said they wanted a shit load of staples thrown into the deck.
I can't even tell *who* is saying what because everyone's basically saying the same thing.

FastChef
FastChef

@Emberfire
Wotc and hasbro aren't doing charity. They would be literally printing money.
First, never said they are a charity.

Second, disagree that this is a good venture. It might make a surge of sales at first, but it'd have diminishing returns, and it would piss off players.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@RumChicken
no one said they wanted a shit load of staples thrown into the deck

@Lord_Tryzalot
You can't make a sealed product that everyone will think is fun. Better off filling it full of value and needed reprints

Nojokur
Nojokur

@Techpill
It would actually be harder to make deck filled with value a bad skeleton, than making a good skeleton deck without being filled with value.

Staples are expensive, and by default filled with value. Unless you are talking about filling a deck with staples, we are basically saying the same thing, and I have no idea what you are trying to argue here.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Nojokur
What I'm arguing for is that I feel the "best" strategy for Commander precons is to be primarily concerned with them being fun to play, having interesting new cards, and being a good springboard to build from while having a solid 'base'. I think casual players have the most fun when they can buy a precon, play it for a weekend, then start slotting in cards from their collection and powering that precon up over time.

I disagree with the idea that "because fun is subjective, and you can't make a deck that literally every single person who plays EDH will like, fun shouldn't ever factor into your decisions, and the best option is to just print decks that are basically nothing but reprints of expensive, valuable staples for people to gut".

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@Nojokur
What if
Instead of making precons
They just push out Commander sets with boosters?

Nojokur
Nojokur

@RavySnake
wrong
they are shit
Quote me exactly where i said that they were strong. I said that they would sell, and they do. Look at Nicol Bolas from the precon, it is worth $5, much more than whatever bulk rare they used in the past. Only maybe Wolfir Silverheart and Blade Splicer managed to get values like that.

The whole point of the planeswalker decks would be to give more value to the precons, without making them hard to find for new players.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@Nojokur
Look at Nicol Bolas from the precon, it is worth $5, much more than whatever bulk rare they used in the past

Do you think that might have something to do with the fact that it's Nicol Bolas, rather than the fact that people are falling over themselves to buy a super expensive planeswalker that sees play in zero formats? I'll grant you that Bolas is the strongest one of the PW deck planeswalkers we've seen, but he's still not very good, and they flat out said that they design the cards in the PW decks to not be 'viable' for competitive play in other formats specifically because they can only be obtained in the precon, and they want those precons available for new players to buy and play whole, rather than people buying them for singles.

The whole point of the planeswalker decks would be to give more value to the precons, without making them hard to find for new players.
Objectively fucking false.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@FastChef
piss off players
Yeah, making the competitive scenario more affordable really fucking pisses off people.

Remember that Wotc and Hasbro gains no direct benefits when an old card jumps to $100. The only ones gaining anything from it are the investors, that makes the game harder to enter for new players, since they basically turns the game into a stock market. Wotc and Hasbro gains the most when people buy their sealed products from the stores.

Also, if the investors wants to something to get money from, stuff like expeditions and masterpieces were the right call. There are a lot of people willing to pay more to bling out their deck, and those prints barely have any impact on the non-bling version.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@VisualMaster
When I have to wait 3 months to buy a precon because people are snatching them up to gut for singles to sell, I don't really care that Modern is getting cheaper, because I don't fucking play Modern. I play Commander, and I have to get lucky or wait 3 months to buy a fucking precon in this scenario.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@VisualMaster
I haven't seen a single precon in any store so your opinion is invalid.

RavySnake
RavySnake

@LuckyDusty
It is true. The whole intro pack changes accelerated with the Wolfir Silverheart fiasco. Where they decided to add one extra booster packs in the precons so that would be less likely to happen. And after that, they would try to make it so it doesn't happen again.

Also, Nissa is $4. The card isn't an exception because it is Nicol Bolas. All the other shit planeswalkers from the planeswalker decks have been like this. For some good time right after they are out, they have a decent value.

StonedTime
StonedTime

Anyone have any banned cards specifically at your kitchen table, and if so which card(s)?

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@RavySnake
It is true

Each Planeswalker Deck will have a brand-new planeswalker card, obviously of the Planeswalker the deck is themed around. These cards are being designed to be fun and flavorful but not pushed for tournament play. The idea is we want new players to be excited by them and for them to have a big impact on the game, but we don't want established players to feel obligated to buy the Planeswalker Decks. As a default, the planeswalkers will be expensive to cast and splashy.

girlDog
girlDog

@Ignoramus
They are being snatched up mostly because people know that wizards makes a limited print on them. So if they monopolize on the good cards in it, they can make a good profit out of it, since shit like Teferi's Protection are almost a limited reserved print.

If they knew that the product would be printed as long as there are buyers for it, they wouldn't be so eager to clean the shelves, it might be a race in the beginning, but it would make the product better and more accessible in the long run.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@CodeBuns
That's a direct quote from the article introducing the decks.

Tell me what about that wording implies that these are intended to be "valuable" cards that'll see play anywhere but the kitchen table?

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@CodeBuns
Are you a broken record? You keep insisting on a point that I never presented. The sets have value, not power. Although they may have a correlation, they are directly linked to one another.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Gigastrength
The sets have value, not power
Fucking what

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

autists who've never taken a business class in their life REEEEEEEEEEEing about how PreCons should have valuable reprints the thread

I haven't seen a single precon across two towns and a city. If they put shit in it like Tarmogoyf I'd especially never see them. Wizards can't "print these into oblivion" like autists in these threads like to say they have limited resources and they're not going to devote a shit ton of them to commander precons.

MPmaster
MPmaster

@PurpleCharger
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/164331905138/would-having-the-yearly-commander-product-be

If you want them to try it, show your support.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Emberfire
Look at the fucking prices on Nicol Bolas and Nissa from the planeswalker decks yourself. They may be shit as fuck, but they are worth some dollars. They are worth more than a lot of regularly printed planeswalkers better than them.

Flameblow
Flameblow

I need a good Penguin themed commander deck

FastChef
FastChef

@StonedTime
Yeah I allow griselbrand because the only edh deck using it says spending 21 life to get 21 cards that you might dump most of it is dumb. In a kaalia deck no less.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@Soft_member
$5

WEW SON WE GOIN' TO VALUE TOWN! WE'S GONNA EAT MC'DONALDS TENDIES TONIGHT!

King_Martha
King_Martha

@massdebater
Definitely one of the most metal cards from the past 4 years

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

I made that Ball Lightning tribal deck as promised

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/saskias-big-balls/

I'm ready to be eviscerated, lemme know what I should swap/cut/add

DeathDog
DeathDog

@SniperGod
4 is the ideal number for a pod. Its a shame that there is about 40 less reprints, but if the 56 new cards we get are on the same caliber as the 2017 edition, then I'm OK with it.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@StonedTime
My playgroup allowed one person to play Panoptic Mirror, because they were only playing Copy effects and had no extra turn cards for it.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@Dreamworx
I feel like I'm doing something wrong here.

Skullbone
Skullbone

decks all in shambles as part of massive tear-down/rebuild
friends want to play yesterday
Throw together some half-assed Purphoros deck
slaps the shit out of the table
I forgot how good Purph is, fuck.

FastChef
FastChef

@Flameblow
Partner Ishai with whomever you feel best represents your waifu

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Skullbone
I know that feel
took apart kozilek artifacts
throw together breya in one night with leftover cards from binder
turn 7 table lockdown with mycosynth lattice, darksteel forge, clock of omens and Nev's disk
Thanks kuldotha forgemaster and mirage mirror you fucking broke ass shits

idontknow
idontknow

@Soft_member
Man, you're right, spending 15 dollars on a precon to get a 5 dollar unplayably shit foil and 2 dollars worth of bulk commons is V A L U E

Skullbone
Skullbone

@StonedTime
We ban Omen Machine simply because it slams the game to a grinding halt.

JunkTop
JunkTop

autismo builds deck entirely about ramping up and playing new Emrakul several turns early
gets ass-blasted when I fauna shaman up Kiki-Jiki and win

Play stupid games win stupid prizes

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@JunkTop
playing overcosted, shitty mindslaver in a multiplayer, board wipe centric format
some faggot just tutors up kiki jiki combos all night
really makes your brain work

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@CouchChiller
Being Mindslaved to death is OK
Kiki combo isn't

What kind of game are you playing where being Mindslavered doesnt kill you or knock you out of the game? Spellskite, Necropotence, Unspeakable symbol, Lim duls vault, etc. Will all kill a guy that gets mindslavered.

I think the joke is that if you make a deck with only ramp and emrakul though, you miss out on playing normal disruption that stops other people from going off earlier than you.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@Snarelure
You need three colors in your life. Tell me your favorite trio.

MPmaster
MPmaster

@TalkBomber
I believe he's saying that tutoring up Kiki combos is a disproportionate response to Emrakul, because unlike regular Mindslaver it's a lot fucking harder to use Emrakul to permanently mindslaver lock someone.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@TalkBomber
Because it's one autismo being locked down in case of a mindslaver lock and there are possibly 2 other people at the table to push your shit in. Plus not everyone is running U/B/X so there's always an easy out to instantly murdering a player. In the case of emrakul, the body is almost a non issue and you can't recur her.

takes2long
takes2long

@SniperWish
Keep four. Dismantle the rest.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Harmless_Venom
I guess Hapatra isn't the worst of these option.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Emberburn
Jund 'em out then.

JunkTop
JunkTop

@cum2soon
There's more than one way to Mindslaver lock an entire table

whereismyname
whereismyname

@JunkTop
Tell me how you can do this with emrakul, the promised end. inb4 apply infinite mana

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@whereismyname
Oh, fuck that. I just meant for actual mindslaver.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@farquit
@Firespawn
Don't forget Desertion and Spelljack!

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@cum2soon
Plus not everyone is running U/B/X so there's always an easy out to instantly murdering a player.

Those were just examples. You can play stuff like phyrexian processor in any colors. And even if mindslaver doesn't kill you, it should royally fuck you up by destroying your board and hand, and in the case of a combo deck getting rid of your combo pieces.

You would have to be in a craw wurm meta (which the guy clearly isn't) to have no chance of instantly killing a player or essentially knocking them out of the game.

Techpill
Techpill

@Emberfire
Kalemne's Captain and/or Merciless Eviction

WebTool
WebTool

@SniperWish
I fucking love this art.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@whereismyname
Not him, but you can do it with seedborn muse, a flash outlet, and something like crystal shard. You will control everyone elses turn for the rest of the game.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@Evil_kitten
Arc Runner
Butcher of Malakir
Hellspark Elemental
Impetuous Devils
Dictate of Erebos
Dictate of the Twin Gods
Furnace of Rath
Grave Pact
True Conviction
Whip of Erebos

King_Martha
King_Martha

@kizzmybutt
@SniperGod
scarab is $40
play group already has a Locus player

@Sir_Gallonhead
sultai, esper, abzan

FastChef
FastChef

@King_Martha
My recommendations?

Mimeoplasm
Sydri
Karador

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Evil_kitten
Claim // Fame?

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@King_Martha
Scorpion, then.

idontknow
idontknow

@Nojokur
@idontknow
This is exactly what I was talking about. They don't want another Wolfir Silverheart. But at $15, including 2 boosters and a $5 card, it is decently cheap, and nets some decent value for beginners.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@idontknow

I honestly just miss the theme decks. I thought they were better at showing mechanics and they seemed more interesting deck building wise too. The forced Planeswalker stuff is going to get old fast.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@idontknow
I know that when I have 15 dollars, I consider buying 59 uselessly terrible singles, 2 booster packs at MSRP and then some, and a terrible, unplayable foil for 5 dollars to be great value!

JunkTop
JunkTop

@DeathDog
15 dollars, sorry.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@StonedTime
You mistake what the function of the decks are. These are meant for new players, and new players love the idea of getting a planeswalker.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@New_Cliche
I like most of these, I just dunno where I'd put them

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@JunkTop
@DeathDog
yeah but at least they are getting something they'll think is cool and if you take cost of the packs at msrp out it's only 7 bucks
@Spamalot
this, it's also a good way to introduce them to how planeswalkers work, since before they were off limits to regular ol' precons

Techpill
Techpill

@Deadlyinx
Please tell me all the decks running phyrexian processor along with their 3 turn combo decks.
Best case scenario for a single mindslaver is attacking unfavorably into the creature deck and mindtwisting them for like a few random removal spells. The shit will not knock anyone out of the game unless they're running like one solitary combo as a wincon and in that case just run fucking disallow or something. Plus we weren't even talking about mindslaver specifically, just the effect off emrakul.

@Gigastrength
That's definitely true, I might have to stick emrakul into my artifact deck now so I can slap people around with her with unwinding clock out.

Methshot
Methshot

@Spamalot
100% this.

The 'function' of the deck is something that a new player can buy and begin playing with immediately, as well as having a Planeswalker as the central focus because apparently they decided that's the best option for casuals.

In no universe is it intended to be "value" the way you're framing it. That function is filled by the Deckbuilder's Toolkit.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@lostmypassword
So they're "only" paying 7 dollars for a shitty card that's 'worth' 5 dollars.

Such. Value.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@DeathDog
And you prefer the old ones? That had 60 terrible cards with no value whatsoever and 2 boosters at msrp? I'm not saying that planeswalker decks are perfect, but it is a damn of a boost from the old intro packs.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@viagrandad
I'm not huge on Combat Celebrant or Mycoid Shepherd

Supergrass
Supergrass

@Carnalpleasure
Beginners were already buying the intro packs, at least they are getting 5 out of "7" dollars spent, instead of $1 if they were really fucking lucky.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@CouchChiller
I have Celebrant as a way to get more oomph out of all those cheap creatures, and Shepherd is there as a sort of pillowfort-y strategy to keep me alive when my board gets light. Forced sac is probably better though. Maybe I'll drop Seize the Day too

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Snarelure
Actually, I personally preferred the original theme decks that were 10 dollars, had zero boosters, and while they had some chaff (mostly so players could easily cut it as they powered the deck up), they had unified 'themes' to be built from and served their role perfectly: Giving casual players an easy way to jump right in by having a fully built, playable (not necessarily strong, but playable and theme-focused) deck for 10 bucks.

I feel the later decks and the Planeswalker decks aren't as good at that, since the 'focus' is less on neat themes of the set and more on the face characters, but the starter decks have never been about giving someone 30 dollars of singles for 10 bucks. They've always been "Here is a deck that you can begin playing with immediately, go have fun". That's what they've always done, that's what they still do.

You're getting mad at a toaster for not washing your clothes.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Booteefool
Keep me alive
"Dying slower" is not a good strategy. If you need tools to 'stay alive' when your board is light, pack wraths.

massdebater
massdebater

@Spamalot

Sure, but Planeswalker design space is already pretty narrow (although I guess if you make them shitty enough it doesn't matter) so it feels unwise to have to make two per set forever. I also wish that they would use not the gatewatch or enemy of the week for once too. It boggles my mind that there wasn't a Saheeli deck in Kaladesh.

Speaking of that, did she even do anything? at all?

I just remember being excited about intro packs sometimes. It was a fun start to building some of the decks I enjoyed the most (like U/R Burning vengeance).

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@massdebater
It does help that they don't put a lot of effort into making them interesting or unique. It's not like they're stealing design space- the Gatewatch ones were just "DURR HURR BURN" or "DURR HURR ZAMBOZLES"

Skullbone
Skullbone

How faggy am i for playing this?
Any ideas for maximize hugs?

Also rate my crap
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/gay-brotendo/

Flameblow
Flameblow

@massdebater
@Carnalpleasure
(but I 100% agree that I preferred intro packs. Time Spiral intro packs having things like Thallid decks were super great, I preferred that)

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Harmless_Venom
Value is something inherent to almost anything. I would be fucking mad if I paid $30 for a $10 toaster.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@Carnalpleasure
@Flameblow

I suppose I wouldn't mind if the decks themselves were more interesting. They could do some neat things, especially in a tribal set like Ixalan. Something like the original Nissa, but for not elves seems like it'd work well here. but there won't be.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@haveahappyday
Well that certainly makes more sense. Time for more edits.

takes2long
takes2long

@CouchChiller
It was 1v1 dipshit

TreeEater
TreeEater

@massdebater
I just wish the planeswalkers in the planeswalkers decks were more supportive of a specific strategy. This way, even a newbie could understand what is the point of the deck just by reading the abilities of the planeswalker, instead of "Oh, these cards do a bunch of things."

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

How do I hose atraxa super friends in mardu?

Evilember
Evilember

@takes2long
I'm the op faggot and it was multiplayer

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Evilember
No I'm the OP who posted about Emrakul

@JunkTop

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Carnalpleasure
It's better than getting a shitty intro pack rare, and as an added side bonus, shitty intro pack rares also clogged up the rares of the set and we're better off being rid of them entirely.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@SniperWish
No, that's me. It was 1 v 1, I just forgot to mention it.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Skullbone
Anvil of Bogardan + Weird Harvest + Tempting Wurm
Charmed Griffin
Hired Giant
Hunted Dragon
Hunted Lammasu
Hunted Phantasm
Hunted Troll
Hunted Wumpus
Indentured Djinn
New Frontiers

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@SniperWish
Why would you people come on here and just tell lies, it's clear that you're just bullshitting

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@Burnblaze
Merciless Eviction

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Burnblaze
Star of Extinction, In Garruk's Wake, Fated Retribution, Merciless Eviction.
Hero's Downfall and Dreadbore for single targets.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@Dreamworx
I forgot that was a card.

@SomethingNew
I have those single targets I can put those in the deck.
Have you played with star of extinction?
I haven't played with any Ixalan cards yet. How has it performed for you?

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@CodeBuns
I'm also playing with pic related but he dies literally after all people read his 3 ability. Played a lot but never ulti.
Is he any good? Sounds fokin' hilarious

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@massdebater
Speaking of that, did she even do anything? at all?

She apparently made Hope of Ghirapur and used it to blow up Tezzeret's planar portal. She also told the Gatewatch to eat a dick, so no Oath of Saheeli.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Fried_Sushi
I like star of extinction, but you have to be aware of land removal like ghost quarter, because if Star of Extinction loses target of the land, it fizzles.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@RumChicken
That is tricky. I will have to remember that. I picked up planar cleansing and hour of revelation as all purpose boardwipes but I am having trouble getting enough mana in mardu to cast them.

Techpill
Techpill

@VisualMaster
You're misconstruing my analogy.

I'm saying you're upset that the decks aren't "providing" something they were never intended to provide.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@TreeEater
They did that with Huatli, at least, but her problem is that she literally does nothing if you don't already have dinosaurs on the board.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Techpill
Buyer's remorse is a thing, and intro packs and planeswalker decks aren't supposed to make the player feel this way.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@New_Cliche
I wish more Planeswalkers were designed like Huatli, rather than just being general goodstuff.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@Techpill
@King_Martha
I also agree. I would feel bad if I knew that I could buy the exact same game for 1/10th of the price, or even have it given to me from a friend because of how cheap it is.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@Evil_kitten
still waiting for Huatli to go down so I can get a foil for Licia
Is she actually seeing play?
I don't want to dish out a dime more than $20 for it.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@Evil_kitten
I second this.

5mileys
5mileys

@Illusionz
She's not actually good, I just like the ability design. Don't know if she's seeing play, not as far as I know.

Evilember
Evilember

I love how lost you guys got in that argument. It didn't lead anywhere. Both of y'all agree on the purpose of these intro decks.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@5mileys
She's not actually good
I wouldn't say she's bad, either.
She's flexible as fuck and can provides some sicknasty lifegain when you channel your inner Timmy hard enough.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@CouchChiller
tfw dropping a wurmcalling for 17 with panharmonicon and trostani and huatli, then +1ing and populating

eGremlin
eGremlin

@CouchChiller
1v1 Emrakul is busted senpai

It's not just a mindslaver it's a mindslaver that kills with commander damage that can't be killed with instants and even if your opponent has a journey to nowhere/oblivion ring/cast out you can cast it on their creatures when you take control of them and wreck their shit.

If some neckbeard asks you to 1v1 and their commander is Emrakul tell them to fuck off because they'll just mulligan until they have enough ramp in their hand and the game will be the same every single time unless you do some busted shit in response.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@farquit
Spelljack is great in normal EDH. Gather Specimens is a crazy blowout in certain situations but it also wastes a lot of time sitting in your hand. If a deck can justify leaving 6 mana open for the slight chance of a blowout then it's very fun. You need lots of flash and instants to take advantage of this though.

askme
askme

@Stark_Naked
They are literally about to do this with Explorers of Ixalan though. It doesn't have Goyf and Liliana but it has multiple 10$+ cards and even a 20$ card Shared Animosity.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@ZeroReborn
calls other people idiots with no business sense
doesn't even consider supply and demand and that supply could be increased

The C17 precons have been much easier for me to find than C16 was. Wotc doesn't reprint tons of super expensive cards because THEY DON'T HAVE TO. They reprint just enough value to sell the precons and they want to maintain the prices of things like Goyf so that printing Goyf as a mythic rare in a Masters set can sell a bunch of packs. The idea of precons being impossible to buy is nonsensical mental gymnastics. It is an argument pushed by wotc apologists (ie Tolarian Community College) because they don't want to acknoledge the realistic and slightly cynical business reasons for wotc's choices.

You say that wotc doesn't make money off of a card's secondary market price going up but it does provide them with an avenue to make money. If Liliana of the Veil wasn't 70$ then they wouldn't have been able to sell quite so many packs of MM17, if Thoughtseize wasn't expensive they wouldn't have sold quite so much Theros, etc. Expensive cards give them a simple way to sell many boosters in the future.

Flameblow
Flameblow

New Thread

/tg/thread/55851006#p55851006
/tg/thread/55851006#p55851006
/tg/thread/55851006#p55851006
/tg/thread/55851006#p55851006

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@Evil_kitten
Cloudstone Curio would be great tech to let you reuse Ball Lightnings. Cast a non-haste creature after combat and recast the haste creature next turn.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Burnblaze
Who's your commander? Zurgo can just grab his worldslayer. Otherwise, @Dreamworx
and @SomethingNew
are pretty good but I should also recommend Apocalypse and All Is Dust.

I can think of very few decks that couldn't use All Is Dust as an ultimate panic button.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@askme
Yeah, but they're stabled to a board game, so it'll be a lot harder for people to scalp it.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@SniperGod
having trouble getting to 6 mana
Are you running 20 lands or something?

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