/STG/ - Star Trek General

Which ones?
The most we get of his physical capability is that he can keep up with Vulcans while playing space racketball, and he actually still says that he lost to them.

As much I'd like this to be true, this would have been something they detected when they scanned the Baku and Son'a the first time.

Well, Julian was "upgraded" at age seven. Khan and the others were upgraded as embryos. The major thing is that although Julian is superior to a human being, he wasn't made using the same process that made Khan, so he lacks the outrageous ambition that the true Augments have. But Bashir is also a fluke - he didn't end up extremely messed up due to the illegal and very experimental nature of genetic augmentation.

Keeping in mind what full blown augments were capable of.
youtube.com/watch?v=cPcVf-qQzxM

See; that's what I mean.
Bashir was extremely gifted, but Augments are so completely beyond what normal humans are physically capable of that no human could ever physically match one.

Except Kirk.
youtube.com/watch?v=B_c1Odol9xw

Lets be honest, no one can prepare or defend themselves from Kirk's crazy brand of circus wrestling

Or Riker, what with him manhandling that Klingon during that episode where he takes over the Klingon ship.
With Kirk though I'm not even sure it was decided that Klingons were any stronger then anybody else yet.

That and Khan is so up his own ass about his own superiority that he doesn't just stun Kirk after taking the phaser, just ruins it with a show of force.

Klingon strength is something you just have to take with a grain of salt. They tend to get their asses kicked even by regular folks, and poor Worf is a magnet for every tough guy looking for something to prove.

No one was Kirk's match in hand-to-hand combat, though. That's not a fair comparison, since nothing is a fair comparison to Kirk's two-fisted flailing.

I thought his loss to them came from before he was outed, as part of a deception to make himself look highly athletic but still within natural human capability.

>Or Riker, what with him manhandling that Klingon during that episode where he takes over the Klingon ship.
He was using ju-jitsu, strength doesn't matter quite as much.

And we have no direct evidence of him being superior physically to Vulcans after that deception is dropped. Hell, he plays baseball against them and gets *completely smoked*. He isn't physically superior to Vulcans.

Space: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Delivery. Its continuing mission: to explore strange new foods, to seek out new toppings and new recipies, to boldly go where no one has gone before.

>Hell, he plays baseball against them and gets *completely smoked*.
Overall I agree with you, but Bashir's mental capabilities are demonstrated as being super-human on numerous occasions, and he has a similar amount of natural dexterity.

youtube.com/watch?v=ZP1VoH_0l-E
youtube.com/watch?v=yujyd22CGM8
youtube.com/watch?v=4hnBp7x2QAE

>to boldy deliver in 30 minutes or less where no one has delivered before

The argument was that he was physically the superior to a Vulcan. I showed he isn't. Mentioning his mental abilities is irrelevant to that argument.

Also, while his mind is clearly super-human, it probably isn't any sharper than what we've seen Vulcans do. Likely, he's closer to Vulcan than human mentally, which seems fair.

>youtube.com/watch?v=4hnBp7x2QAE
Ok, that is actually completely fantastic. Well played, sir.

What's the Delivery's prime directive?

That is totally not how jiujutsu even works and I have a belt to prove it.

>What's the Delivery's prime directive?
The Delivery has a strict policy of non-intervention when it comes to other civilizations menu choices.

But user, spacejutsu can involve anything. How dare you claim you know better than Will Riker, who manages to defeat Klingons twice his size and defeated the Borg!

Not gonna lie, I snickered sincerely at the bridge crew all just goofing off in the mess getting Bortus to eat a cactus. Feels like completely believable bullshit that Starfleet crews would do in their spare time.

They never really specify the exact definition of the word. It might refer specifically to the sub-species of human created by late 20th century genetic egineering. In which case Bashir isn't one because he doesn't that those particular genetic modifications. Or it might be a general term for anyone who's genetically enhanced. Which would mean Bashir is an augment. In either case the term seems to have fallen out of use after the 22nd century.

NEW SHIP ALERT!

>a captain actually expressing concern and fear before going on an away mission in enemy territory
Thank you, Orville. Even when you pull the same shit of sending the Captain and an officer away alone on an away mission, you manage to make it actually make sense and also feel more human.

>Thank you, Orville.
Hearing this a lot. Glad to know there's at least one decent Star Trek show on TV these days.

I don't know how much of it is legitimately good, and how much is just being better than literally any official Trek for over 15 years, if not longer.

It being better than STD and ENT is probably helping it a great deal, yeah. Shame that the two most recent Trek series have both been so mediocre to bad.

So how much physical augmentation does a normal human have access to in DS9/VOY era? Like on a scale of 1 (Nothing) to 10 (Adeptus Mechanicus Magos), how impressive could someone get by adding on or replacing limbs/organs/etc?

Pretty godlike.

Imagine Khan. Now give him telekinesis, telepathy and longevity.

Generally speaking, unless it is medically required, the Federation seems to completely disregard augmentation tech. So, probably, very little, maybe a 2 (since stuff like the VISOR and Picard's replacement heart exist).

There's a difference between what's allowed and what's possible. What's allowed are corrections for defects or injuries which we understand to be generally designed to replace missing functionality rather than enhance it. As to what's possible, well, we get glimpses of all kinds of things, but since they're unsanctioned we can't really say what the state of the art is.

Oh, if we're talking about what is *possible*, then the sky's the fucking limit, literally, since you'll have to do it all in space probably. Replicator and holodeck technology combined can probably produce just about any upgrade to the human form anyone ever wanted and given that the Federation is a heavily scientific place, the knowledge to attach said upgrade to the body certainly exists somewhere, probably for the asking. All it would take to be some kind of cybernetic god is access to the right tools and some dedication.

For fuck's sake, the most complex artificial lifeform in the Federation, Data/Lore, were made by a lone dude in his fucking garage. If he can make insanely complex *life* in his free time, I bet someone else could become a cybernetic god to make JC Denton jealous.

I wasn't even thinking in terms of cybernetics, just on genetics alone there are extreme possibilities.

Dude asked about physical augmentation, which is why I went there. If you want genetics, we have evidence that they can do some fairly good things, but not insanely complex stuff like new limbs or body functions or anything, just enhancements. Still, possibilities are there and I trust that if the Federation cared to do the research, they could probably do some insane things. The will just isn't there though, so practically speaking, there is little access or possibility for that kind of genetic enhancement.

Follow-up question: At what point do you think Starfleet would turn away an augmented individual? I know they're super against people like Bashir because of Khan, but would that same fear extend to a dude (or chick) with Doc Oc arms (for example)?

If they were a Federation citizen before getting their augmentations, then Starfleet would turn them away and probably arrest them for their trouble.

Starfleet and other Federation agencies (but not all, it's not like they're forever jobless) turn away anyone who has even the slightest bit of augmentation, on the grounds that it would encourage parents to augment their kids so they can get the prestigious jobs.

Absolutely it would. Starfleet does not engage in these kinds of experimentation because of the potential for abuse that has been shown on occasions in their history. I imagine other member races of Starfleet have had this issue as well, which reinforces their fears.

Look, I like experimentation and alteration of the human form too, but Star Trek is not the place for this. They have the tech but are fundamentally opposed to the practice on a deep and base level. I recommend you find a second sci-fi universe to satisfy this impulse as, while you *can* force Trek to do it, everything in the setting doesn't want you to.

Nah I just find it funny that Soong-type androids are fine, but for some reason if you start with something living and augment until they're similar it's forbidden. I didn't have any plans to actually indulge that impulse, as you say.

Sorry, most people who ask about this generally insist in crowbaring it into the setting, despite it being so grossly opposed to the setting's fundamentals.

I do wonder if there's some room to work with the idea of someone being body-dead but with a living mind and copying the mind into a device. I don't know that we've *really* explored this aspect of Federation ethics. Does the benefit of saving their consciousness (and so a form of life) outweigh the issues of creating a cybernetic entity that may set a bad precedent? I feel like there is room there for a really good Trek episode with a strong exploration of morality, especially if there's a downside to be found somewhere.

The Maquis on the other hand seems a lot more egalitarian, if only out of practicality. If you live on a planet outside the Federation's protection, you're also out from under its laws and being able to replicate this scene against the spoonheads is definitely a worthwhile talent.
youtube.com/watch?v=K0cFLb-JmaQ

Wasn't that the plot to the TNG episode with Data's "mother?" You know, Juliana Tainer? Granted, that episode was more about "Do you tell a machine they're a machine" than "do we save a dying mind by creating a cybernetic copy?"

Artificial life is different from an in-universe standpoint because the Federation at tht time is only on the precipice of regularly creating artificial life, to the extent where they seem unconvinced that any mortal could create a sufficiently intelligent program until proven wrong. Data and Lore (and later B4) were oddities that nobody else could replicate, the EMH wasn't designed to be independently intelligent until circumstances forced Voyager's to be, same with the exocomps gaining sentience. The Federation has a blind spot where they assume that new life will be naturally occurring, primarily organic, and that machines are just machines and not intelligent beings.

Yeah, but that distinction changed the entire tenor of the episode. I am more interested in the act of creation and what that means for Federation theories and morals than what we do with one once we have it. The act of creation seems to be where the Federation's issues lie, not with what they do with the things once they exist.

While an interesting point, that video doesn't really support your point, being from Into Darkness and having nothing to do with the Maquis. Did you miscopy your link?

>The Federation has a blind spot where they assume that new life will be naturally occurring, primarily organic, and that machines are just machines and not intelligent beings.
I think it is more that the Federation doesn't seem to want to have the discussion about the ethics and responsibilities of creating life from nothingness. They were happy to have the occasional surprise but if people are gonna go around doing this on the regular, it will open up some areas of discussion that need to be had about the morals of said behavior and what rights said life forms have and all that jazz and frankly, this is a tough discussion to have in a small group, much less a Federation composed of possibly quadrillions of life forms. I kinda understand their concerns, it's a very human thing to try and kick the can down the road until you can't anymore, which is what they're doing. It's a reminder that the Feddies are still quite fallible which is refreshing to see.

Fantasy Trek guy from the last thread here, done up a quick list of rough equivalents for converting the trek species into a fantasy planet-base setting.

Alpharia

>United Federation of Cities
Humans - Humans
Vulcans - Elves with little Maenad
Tellarties - Dwarves
Andorians - Frosty High Elves/Eldarin
-Aenar - Dromites
Betazoids/Deltans - Xeph
Benzites - Undine/Merfolk
Bolians - Tall blue gnomes.
Caitians - Catfolk
Saurians - Lizardfolk
Trill - Noral joined with Erliss

Bajorans - Halflings

Ferengi - Kobolds / WoW Goblins

Tzenkethi Coalition - D&D Troglodytes

Breen - Masked Gnolls

Cardassian Union - Lizardmen/Hobgoblins

Na'kuhl - Hobgoblins/Goblins

Betarix

>The Romulan State Empire
Romulans - Dark Elves / Drow
Remans - Duergar

>Klingon Empire
Klingons - Vikings / WoW Orcs
Gorn - Dragonborn
Nausicaans - Ogres/Trolls
Letheans - Ophiduan
Orions - Nymphs

Tholians - Shardmind

Kinshaya - Kenku/Griffins

Gammanon

>The Dominion
Changelings - Changelings with a bit of Illithid
Jem'Hadar - Tiefling/Dragonborn with a bit of Githyanki
Vorta - Deva/Aasamir/ with a bit of Githzerai

Deltarus

Borg - Undead Horde ruled by a Lich Queen
8472- Extra planar entities
Kazon - Goblins
Talaxians - Ratfolk
Ocampa - Some Fae race?
Hirogen - Bugbears
Vidiians - Lepers
Voth - Lizardmen(Warhammer)

I've updated the OP in order to include the released material for STA and tweak some things to satisfy my own autism. Make sure to make use of it next time around.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

A thread for discussing the 'Star Trek' franchise and its various tabletop adaptations.

Possible topics include Modiphius' new rpg 'Star Trek Adventures', WizKids’ miniatures game 'Star Trek: Attack Wing', and Gale Force Nine's board game 'Star Trek: Ascendancy', as well as the previous rpgs produced by FASA, Last Unicorn Games and Decipher, the Starfleet Battles Universe, and the Star Trek universe in general.

Game Resources

Star Trek Adventures
-Official Modiphius Page (Rules, FAQ and Player Resources)
>modiphius.com/star-trek.html
-PDF Collection
>mediafire.com/folder/0w33ywljd1pdt/Star_Trek_Adventures

Older Licensed RPGs (FASA, Last Unicorn Games and Decipher)
>pastebin.com/ndCz650p

Other (Unlicensed) RPGS (Far Trek + Lasers and Feelings)
>pastebin.com/uzW5tPwS

Star Trek: Attack Wing
-Official WizKids Page (Rules, FAQ and Player Resources)
>wizkids.com/attackwing/star-trek-attack-wing/

Star Trek: Ascendancy (Rules and Player Resources)
-Official Gale Force Nine Page
>startrek.gf9games.com/

Lore Resources

Memory Alpha - Canon wiki
>en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Portal:Main

Memory Beta - Noncanon wiki for licensed Star Trek works
>memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

Fan Sites - Analysis of episodes, information on ships, technobabble and more
>pastebin.com/mxLWAPXF

Star Trek Maps - Based on the Star Trek Star Charts, updated and corrected
>startrekmap.com/index.html

/stg/ Homebrew Content
>pastebin.com/H1FL1UyP

Anyone else have a favorite minor alien species that was never named?
Pic related.

Honestly, not really. If they didn't get a name, I generally didn't notice them enough to give a shit about them. Maybe I'm just lame like that though.

There was also when Dr. Ira Graves transferred his mind into Data. In that case it was wrong because of the theft of Data's body/life. So again they didn't really address the morality of mind uploading in general.

The rulebook is already gone. Nice try, user.

Dunno, I just really dig their species look, uniforms and their ship was neat too.
(Even though it was a modified version of an earlier).

Also, the members of the race we saw were all space miners, with their faces looking somewhat rock-like, it's a neat correlation.

Why change them into standard fantasy races? Why not just have the Star Trek races in a fantasy world?

Fennim's species looks pretty neat too.

>happy arbor day

Not changing them into fantasy races, list is more for the aesthetic / cultural analogies of what each race's fantasy-era thematic vibe I'd aim towards.
Andorians donning the same civilization aesthetic and armor style as arrogant high elves albeit a little more frosty themed for example.

Probably the only real replacement would be the Borg into undead.

>Anyone else have a favorite minor alien species that was never named?
I liked the guys from Voyager who were constantly checking with "the hierarchy" before deciding anything. Apparently the script referred to them as "Overlookers", but they were never named on screen.

I do like the overlookers, they remind me a lot of Sontarons.

You can make them in STO. I have one in the KDF

Maybe I'll have a try at making Nocona's race in STO later.

At the end of the episode they kept his mind in the computers memory banks. And as you said uploading your mind into digital form wasn't the issue there , it was how he did it. The whole episode would have been solved if Graves had just asked the crew to help him with the mind transfer bit.

It seems there is shaky line what you can do. Upload your memory to computer system or robot you build just for that pursose, seems to be grudginly accepted. Augmenting allready excisting physical body there we hit a line which seems to hang on the setience and self-awereness of the person or thing you are messing with.

I nearly couldn't watch that EMH daydreaming episode, it's literally my worst nightmare.

Which, when you think about it, makes sense if you take into account the Federation's view of the Borg as horrific. Still, what with STD's multiple augmented characters (from the very little I've seen/gathered) we may very well see such drama unfold.

Oh wait, that would mean STD would have to follow canon and actually be a decent Star Trek show.

Is it a bad sign that I see and hear Chang's torpedo buzzing up into her saucer when I look at this image?

That's about the only time we see a classic Excelsior in action though.

We do see them in action again in DS9, in the Emissary, an Excelsior is one of the ships that the Borg are allready attacking when Saratoga is making it's attack. And then they are used Maqui hunting and finally we see Excelsiors being part of the fleets in Dominion War.

I was assuming they'd all be of the refit variety, looks like I was wrong. I never noticed the Excelsiors doing much in the war shots, but those sequences have so much going on I'm not surprised I missed them. That said, I can't find an episode where they're being used to hunt Marquis, though I certainly could have missed it.

The USS Malinche was an Excelscior class, sent to assist the Defiant in capturing Micheal Eddington (For the Uniform).
The Maquis lured the Malinche into a trap using the distress call from a Cardassian freighter.

>DS9, The Visitor

Fuck, wasn't expecting to get hit this hard.

Would you believe it got snubbed for a Hugo.

Babylon 5 got it instead, which was very well deserved.

If a Starfleet captain breaks the prime directive by giving primitive aliens a cure for their equivalent of the black plague, does the Federation have to undo the "damage" of this crime by killing the same number of people as the plague would've killed? That is the only effective deterrent, since there are people who would gladly face any punishment if it meant saving millions of lives.

Sitting around being disabled isn't exactly what I had in mind when I said 'in action'....

I don't think there's any clearly established deterrent, beyond punishing the captain/crew responsible.
And I suspect that the idea exists that more interference is not the solution. The damage is already done and any attempt to fix it by meddling more is only likely to make things worse.

Or, you know, you could relieve them of command and then they won't be doing that again. Because, you know, you removed their ability to do so. Becoming a captain is hard work and you risk losing the ability to save lives many times over just to do so in this one instance. Also, I'd like to think that Starfleet is effective at preventing people who are going to go around breaking the prime directive from becoming captains in the first place.

Starfleet is stupid, not maniacly evil.

In the 2290s they set codified a new punishment.
Captains get dishonourably discharged and put in a penal colony.
Crew gets reassigned onto a Crossfield class without chance for promotion or reassignment.

There were no problems for over 70 years.

btw, dilithium weekend is around.
Thought id come around to let you guys know.

youtube.com/watch?v=ULeDlxa3gyc

>Crossfield class

Not heard of this one, isn't it usually an Oberth for that kind of thing?

memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Crossfield_class

You get reassigned to work with Captain Warcrime.

Also, you're quarters are in the spinning part of the saucer.
The spinning never stops.

Going by the precedent of "Homeward", probably not. While Nikolai Rozhenko was chewed out by Picard for saving the Boraalans, no one ever raised, let alone seriously considered, the possibility of just dumping the surviving Boraalans into space or beaming them back to their now-uninhabitable world or something.

In your particular case, certainly something that Starfleet would do is try and remove any traces that the captain had been involved. Like, if he just dispersed the cure into the atmosphere with no one on the planet the wiser, then Starfleet would appreciate that.

If he showed up and presented himself as The Great Healer, well, that would have to be dealt with somehow.

Don't be stupid. The Federation isn't some kind of True Neutral "everything must be balanced" robot, moron. They would not condone murdering people because they saved some other ones. That you even asked this shows how little you understand the Federation or its principles.

Fuck you, your bait got me, I'm angry that you are so stupid. Argh.

>74992
>PIZZA in phone-keypad

The USS Hood is an Excelsior Class keeping up with the Defiant and kicking serious ass in the Battle of Chin'toka.

Wait, discovery is set in 2256? I thought all the promotional material said 20 years before Kirk? Shouldnt it be 2246?

Nope, 10 years.

So what do you think is Discovery has in store for captain Lucius Malfoy ?

Hopefully death and replacement with a real captain.