What's the quickest way for chaos cultists to take over a hive?

There are four things that dominate life in an underhive, and therefore the hive as a whole. Water. Food. Drugs. Weapons. Control two of those and you're good to go.

I think you mean "eagle-tarian" democracy.

No, I'd prefer to think of it as a /pol/yp evolving; it's developed enough to seek a new home, but hasn't managed to change enough to leave the old behaviours behind as no longer appropriate...

This combined with "progressive"/SJW movements. Play both sides.

>blaming Rome's fall on Empire
>when Rome persisted for another five hundred more (or a thousand five hundred depending on your view on Byzantium) years after becoming an Empire
Seriously this is the laziest way of viewing the decline of Rome. It's not even close to the mark.

Democracy is the means by which those dictators took power. They had the support of the masses. You cannot solve dictatorships and social collapse with democracy.

Egalitarianism is a lie told by people looking out for their own interests most of the time, and equality is never something you will find in nature. Man is not above that. There is no such animal in this fallen world.

Its true, humans are not equal. Heres the thing though, if you have anything but a meritocratic society (not one which rewards merit with power, but at least rewards it in some meaningful way) combined with the assumption of equality of each citizen until proven otherwise, you disincentivize the best of society by not providing a stimulus to prove their worth (and hence provide to society).

I'm not saying that individuals are all equal, or that demographics are. Just that every society that hasn't treated them equally before the law has ended disastrously.

>Egalitarianism is a lie told by people looking out for their own interests most of the time, and equality is never something you will find in nature. Man is not above that. There is no such animal in this fallen world.

OK MEIN FUHRER! You have convinced me, now let me join the droves of your subhuman supporters!

Here's how you do it.

First, acquire the vestaments of the fools who worship the false emperor. You kill a lot of them, just raid their wardrobes.

Go to a hive dressed as a priest of the imperial creed, ready to bring the faith to these godless heathens.

Preach some false emperor bullshit for a while to establish cred.

Start talking about the little-known Imperial Saint Korna, who was so blessed by the emperor that no matter how much of her blood was shed in battle she could not be killed until her enemy had fallen first. Obviously, worship of her involves a small amount of ritual bloodshed in the emperor's name.

Anyone who questions you on this is flogged to death for questioning the church. This is totally normal, no one will question it on a hive world.

Slowly ramp up the blood stuff a little at a time. Start to sneak in more specific praises to Korna herself and less and less to the emperor. After a point, its basically a full on chaos cult operating in plain view but claiming to still be part of the imperial creed.

Start indoctrinating an inner circle into the heavier stuff, getting them good and cultisted up so you can start expanding the faith to more of the hive.

This is a plan that works pretty reliably, because only a select few organizations know enough about Chaos to spot the warning signs, and the standard imperial citizen is programmed to never, ever think about what they are being told and to obey without question or face a brutal death.

Its almost like suppressing all knowledge about an active and insidious corruptive force makes your worlds more vulnerable to its infiltration or something.

Real talk, it would be extremely easy.
Just point out how abusive, wasteful and uncaring the imperium is. the whole system is pretty much set up to shit on citizens as much as possible.

>Just that every society that hasn't treated them equally before the law has ended disastrously.
Every society will always end disastrously.
Our universe is a entropic shithole

>play both sides
That is the best way to so chaos.

The Imperium needs a Ghandi/MLK Jr./Nelson Mandela on metaphorical steroids to unite the galaxy in peace.

Plagues. It's a hive and most underhive dwellers are already diseased, a bit of Nurgle's power and everything will become a rotten carcass

Chaos is made from mortal imaginations, the imperial truth actually was a good way of dealing with it.

It's funny because this is what happened the first time and they just keep doing it.

The Imperium would have just let Gandhi die on his hunger strike.

Its simply really inefficient. The reason we see a lot of egalitarian societies today is because they outcompete the ones that still heavily discriminate.

If your sexist society says women can't work, guess what? You have half the workforce of societies without that hangup. Repeat for every other subgroup you deny.

On top of that, the more blatant and defined your inequality is, the more internal strife your nation has and the more resources you have to devote to maintaining that artificial segregation. Because you have demographics that are understandably super not okay with the situation, and they are never going to stop being unhappy about it. So you can either treat them like everyone else, which costs you nothing, or discriminate against them which costs you time, money, and votes.

True equality is a lie because the fact is we dont all start off with the same level of support and we dont treat each other the same, but its one of those good lies that benefits a civilization that pretends its real anyway. Justice is a lie, honor is a lie, the value of money is a lie. But if you ditch those concepts, you end up worse for it.

Two words:

Bake.

Sale.

You think chaos cultists are normal or exceptionally exceptional? I imagine only the most ambitious, ruthless and capable people are attracted to chaos and the power it brings.

You can't really protest the imperium, not with the inquisition around any sort of protest will be put down fast and the instigator flogged and the accomplishes sterilized and put into labor camps. And no one will bat an eye.

...

Well obviously, the Imperium would let whole planets starve if need be. I guess in a setting without empathy peace is impossible.
What if the person was someone extremely influential? Is there anyone who would be immune to this kind of jackbooted thuggery?

The lure of Chaos can tempt any man, but only the most ruthless are able to capitalize on it to gain any significant power.

Right? The Emperor tried the ignorance approach. It cost him his empire, half his space marines, and his life. And the Imperium just did not learn from that mistake somehow.

No way, dawg. You can't resist corruption from a force you are not aware of, because you don't know to be cautious. A lot of chaos cultists who help perform a ritual to summon demons to their world don't know they are summoning demons, or don't know they are going to be slaughtered along with everyone else, because no one ever told them that chaos are lying fucktards and helping them almost never benefits you directly. The guy leading the cult sacrifices you, your friends, and your world to fuel his own ascension through the ranks, and you helped him do it because you were dumb enough to think you were on the same team all because he recruited you.

Look at Fulgrim. His grand sin was no knowing enough about Chaos to recognize what, to us, is an obviously demon possessed sword. But we know Chaos exists and he didn't, so he got BTFO without any hope of resisting it. And he was a primarch. Most people don't have his advantages.

The Primarchs and Big E himself are about the only ones. Any High Lord can be killed and replaced easily, there are like 3 other high lords dedicated to that very job. The Marines have better things to worry about than how the citizens feel. And in these dire times any waves in the fragile imperium would mean death for us all.

Down there are people who will follow any dragon, worship any god, ignore any iniquity. All out of a kind of humdrum, everyday badness. Not the really high, creative loathsomeness of the great sinners, but a sort of mass-produced darkness of the soul. Sin, you might say, without a trace of originality. They accept evil not because they say yes, but because they don’t say no.

Literally Guilleman, and no one else.

The Lords of Terra can't act against the Primarch openly without bringing down holy hell from a majority of the space marine chapters. But, in the past, everyone else has been fair game if they step out of line. Planetary Governments, Inquistors, heads of the church, other High Lords... anyone who threatens the status quo gets assassinated.

>True equality is a lie because the fact is we dont all start off with the same level of support and we dont treat each other the same
And because we are not all physically or mentally equal from birth. No amount of support or equal treatment could have turned you into Albert Einstein, or Bill Gates, or Tom Brady, or Michael Jordan.

Daemons are always shown as perfectly capable and all-corrupting. I wonder if only the most capable daemons (assuming they are not all equally created) get to appear in realspace or a chance to corrupt a psyker.

>so

Both true and not true. I was never going to be a star athlete, and I doubt there was a path for me to be a genius either.

But at the same time if Einstein was raised in a third world shithole where he was never taught to read, he would never have become a world renowned genius. Michael Jordan doesn't become a superstar if he gets falsely accused of a crime because he is black and rots in prison under unjust laws.

The truly exceptional, the ones that make the headlines of history, do so because of a combination of talent and opportunity. Talent is usually wasted without opportunity, but good opportunity can benefit anyone. Just some more than others. So the optimal solution is to make opportunity available to as many as possible, and let talent make itself known without filtering them out for dumb reasons.

You sometimes can't even write off people for seeming obvious reasons. Stephen Hawking should have been dead years ago, and somehow has not only lived despite his condition but continued to push forward his field of science. Writing him off early for the obvious impairment would have been a major mistake.

Sorry, sew. Its been a long day.

Why the hell are you answering for me? Although yeah it's been a long day.

It's sow, you know.

I'm curious if the Chaos gods could be "defeated" through massive social engineering that undermines the psychic zeitgeist underlying them.
But I suppose asking Eldar and Orks to abandon their core beliefs is going too far.
But if the Big E said no more fighting, would the Imperium listen?

Orks do empower the gods so they are a non-issue, I think the Eldar have leaned from their mistakes and are trying to fix the issue, and Yes as long as he is enforcing it which would be a bit of an oxymoron.

There's actually a funny supply-and-demand scenario for psyker corruption. More powerful psykers are more rewarding for daemons to possess, so stronger psykers (somewhat intuitively) have worse results if they fall to Chaos. On the other hand, stronger daemons won't bother with the odd Astropath so the one who gets to possess him is typically the strongest/luckiest of a swarm of daemons vying to be the one to get into realspace.

What movement are you talking about in case of Russia? There was century long history of anti-tsarism movements before the revolution.

>I'm curious if the Chaos gods could be "defeated" through massive social engineering that undermines the psychic zeitgeist underlying them.
Presumably that's why the Emperor promulgated his militant atheism during the Great Crusade. It seems to have failed.

Source for all that?

Anti-tsarists destroyed the rightful bloodline of Romanoffs and led to Stalin and Lenin destroying the glorious Russian Empire while genociding millions of their own people. Communism is never the answer, comrade.

Asking nicely.

The inquisition is nowhere near that ever present.

Russians are Asiatic and regularly die by the millions.

Fuck the Romanoffs anyway, Germanic scum have no right to rule a Slavic nation.

Yeah but someone at Ghandi/MLK Jr./Nelson Mandela levels would be very noticeable.

I'm confused is that pro or anti Russian?

Secretly contaminate the water supply with warp/mutative chemicals.
Soon enough they'll all be mutants, or pliable enough to willingly join Chaos.

Kiev is true capital of Rus.

Well not really, all those people were influential in a single country, what is one continent country compared to say, an entire sector of worlds? Look at Vraks for example, no one intervened until it was too late.

The original post implied a galactic scale not planetary.

>he judges society based on material output alone
Neglecting the relevance of the vital role of the mind and spirit in the health of a nation is a common mistake now unfortunately.
>he thinks that people we now call oppressed were "super not okay with their situations" and yet continued like that
You misunderstand how societies worked before the french revolution entirely. Being a peasant means working with the land, being raised with the notion that it's fulfilling right work for you, having a community to support you, and more often than not would be a safe comfy gig with the occasional opportunity to travel. Being a housewife is only difficult if your husband is an ass which is funny because that's true of all marriages, and ambitious women or non-nobles could often became powerful wealthy individuals through various channels, particularly the church. The notion that anyone should have more than they do is, most of the time a cultivated one. It's the kind of desire that is now taught and nurtured, just as the idea that one deserves nothing more than one has, was taught. If you aren't kept in a hell of stress (a rare state historically), you'd probably not act.

It's not a solution to the dissolution of society. It doesn't even slow it down, since it doesn't even approach the problem. I'm not saying to adopt its antithesis even, since you're right that now, in this time their counterparts would be insufferable to a people raised on the myth of those kind of ideals being the end of all social issues. Just don't be mistaken. Rapid collapse of society usually comes from men's willingness to submit to darkest parts of their Jungian shadow, the aspect of us which goes all the way down to hell, the aspect which allows us the ability to create all manner of atrocities and tragedies, and which is born from our inability to integrate those elements into us productively. It comes from nowhere else but the inevitability of that failure on the part of men's hearts.

thats not what destabilizes and destroys the society, thats what makes it strong enough to the point that everyone declares war on you and THEY destabilize and destroy your society. thats what happened to rome, and germany. Russia was simply communism being 10/10

>he thinks women actually add to the workforce and make it stronger

If your perfect authoritarian utopia can't survive reality... I don't know what to tell you. Fucking Saudis can make it work.

nothing is perfect, I was merely correcting you as to why those societies fell.

...

>he can't cope with the idea that woman can do things

Become bee keepers

>he can't accept the fact that only a few of them can actually do things and the rest need special privileges to compete

They fell because they were bad at it. If you can't keep other nations from zerging you, you're a bad ruler.

Who knew that being openly genocidal and betraying alliances would screw you in the ass? Not germany, apparently.

no one can keep other nations from zerging them, not pre nuke era anyways.

Hey now, no need to overreact.

I don't remember Britain being conquered in the past 500 years or so. Or Switzerland. Or just about any other stable country that didn't start shit, upheld diplomatic agreements and wasn't a failure.

>he's never worked a job other than retail

Britain got bombed to shit first of all, and they've been one of the main causes of world conflict for the past 500 years.

any sort of extreme is ultimately going to lead to the downfall of civilization, be that extreme intolerance or extreme leniency. Germany and France got shit on because they tried to rule with an iron fist, Rome got shit on because of its own decadence. There needs to be common ground in order to have a thriving society, and that means that we need to allow certain things while condemning other things. Appeasing the masses has always and will always be the key to long lasting periods of peace.

Introduce Skub.

What do you think keeps the Emperor alive?

Something better than that shit Skub.

Sorry, it's been a long day.