Warhammer 40k General /40kg/

SniperGod
SniperGod

/fit/ edition

New Alaitoc Attribute
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/20/craftworld-focus-alaitoc-oct-20gw-homepage-post-3/

Daily Duncan Playlist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjZLVBtkpzQ [Embed] [Embed]

GW FAQ (1.1):
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Rules-Errata

FW FAQ (1.1):
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/15/new-and-updated-forge-world-faqs-july16gw-homepage-post-2/

Rules and such. Use Readium on pc/iphone, lithium/kobo on android:
Everything 8th edition in properly converted pdf & epub, fully bookmarked and linked with in-line errata annotations
https://mega.nz/#F!bF0ExS4D!_XaMECn0K9HiJKUFSopJLA

Other Megas
https://mega.nz/#F!64wmnBZR!rWcm37EkOOeToeueqhPjpA
https://mega.nz/#F!BxI1HSgI!0tKymKh9RZTzGpgIA5EyCg
https://mega.nz/#F!9NchGZyZ!-V1LhJALxDp9Tw97WzEQGA
https://mega.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ
Old Black Library Mega
https://mega.nz/#F!wx4BiKhD!YhnAf1BqSmAB8dO6xDM56Q

WIP Math-hammer doc (Thanks Chart-Anon!)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h0hk_IdJ7fivDEjMiIpKM5yMMB8HTm64lZHuKdLZCIU/edit?usp=sharing

All urls found in this thread:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/20/craftworld-focus-alaitoc-oct-20gw-homepage-post-3/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjZLVBtkpzQ
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Rules-Errata
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/15/new-and-updated-forge-world-faqs-july16gw-homepage-post-2/
https://mega.nz/#F!bF0ExS4D!_XaMECn0K9HiJKUFSopJLA
https://mega.nz/#F!64wmnBZR!rWcm37EkOOeToeueqhPjpA
https://mega.nz/#F!BxI1HSgI!0tKymKh9RZTzGpgIA5EyCg
https://mega.nz/#F!9NchGZyZ!-V1LhJALxDp9Tw97WzEQGA
https://mega.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ
https://mega.nz/#F!wx4BiKhD!YhnAf1BqSmAB8dO6xDM56Q
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h0hk_IdJ7fivDEjMiIpKM5yMMB8HTm64lZHuKdLZCIU/edit?usp=sharing
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/20/craftworld-focus-alaitoc-oct-20gw-homepage-post-3/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOT-PTzfFIA&t=602s
https://mega.nz/#F!bF0ExS4D!_XaMECn0K9HiJKUFSopJLA
VisualMaster
VisualMaster

Blood Angels are cool

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

First for sniping Commissars with autarch fusion/launcher spam

TechHater
TechHater

Play any fun games today or have any planned? I played a game with open play cards, weird deployment but the objective was to destroy 3 objectives in the opponents deployment zone, combined with bonus points for units killed. I ended up only losing a venom and 4 kabalite before nearing tabling him and destroying all the objectives. Was pretty fun. Dark eldar are great fun to play.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

Eldar Points changes

30 units have had points changes, all have gone down
17 ranged weapons have had points changes going down, 2 up
9 melee weapons have had points changes going down

Titanic Ghostglaive: -35 points
Dire Avengers: -2 points
Banshees: -3
Striking Scorpians: -4
Warp Spiders: -4
Crimson Hunters: -23
Crimson Hunter Exarch: -48
Falcon: -49
Farseer Skyrunner: -24
Nightspinner: -20
Spiritseer: -22
Vaul Support Battery: -47
Eldrad: -30
Baharroth: -10
Karandras: -18
Maugan Ra: -19
War Walkers: -11
Vipers: -14

Avenger Skurikan Catapult: -2
D-Cannon: -5
Scorpian's Claw: -8
Singing Spear: -8
Star Cannon: -15
Twin-Scatter Laser: -13
Twin-Shurikan Cannons: -7
Twin-Star Cannon: -32

whereismyname
whereismyname

Man, just by comparing voicework you can tell DoW 3 is a fart in comparison to its predecessors.

farquit
farquit

@whereismyname
DoW3 is the biggest insult I can think of in recent years. You could just Fucking tell that they really thought they could pull one over on us and Jew us like that. I could practically hear the hand rubbing in the first reveal trailer. I'm so glad it blew up in their faces

massdebater
massdebater

@whereismyname
Is is just bad instead of so bad it's good like DoW 1?

Methshot
Methshot

@massdebater
No it is just bland and boring, unfortunately.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@TechHater

Lost to AdMech on tactical objectives on Wednesday. He plans on bringing his Eldar next week...oh boy.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@farquit
Andromeda is a bigger insult desu.

Flameblow
Flameblow

Reposting.
So Chimera or Taurox for getting dudes safely into combat? I've never considered Taurox before, preferring the fire support, but Ogryn and now Crusaders have grown on me and I'm thinking of better ways to deploy them.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@farquit
@massdebater
If you don't even know what to do with the voicework for a 40k game, you shouldn't be doing a 40k game

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@TreeEater
your guard look bootiful user

whereismyname
whereismyname

@Flameblow
Chimera won't die as fast, slap either two heavy bolters or heavy bolter and twin heavy bolter on it and have fun (those las arrays can do some work). Heavy Flamer is okay on the turret but bolter is better, plus then you can throw on a heavy stubber or stormbolter and have all the dakka to offset their payload's melee.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@Flameblow

Taurox is better hands down at just about everything. It's a little softer, but not much, and it's faster, cheaper, and has better guns. Taurox Prime is even better. Chimeras kind of suck, and that's coming from a Steel Legion player. Only reason to take them over a taurox is fluff, aesthetics, or if the extra 2 capacity gets you another Ogryn or something.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@StrangeWizard
Star cannon affordable again

VERY NICE

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@ZeroReborn
I'm honestly saddened that any opportunity to have a chance for a new way to kill the frailest characters in the game has to be celebrated, especially when said characters provide a retardedly good buff.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@TechHater
Hoping for a game tomarrow, though no one's responded on the store's forum. I really want to fight death guard in particular.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@TechHater
Not playing any games today. Guard was banned in my store, so I'm finally selling my minis and making that eldar army I always wanted. Gonna be doing a lot of assembling this weekend to get it ready.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@VisualMaster
So what is the best of 40k voice acting.

King_Martha
King_Martha

Is natural to hit roll of 6 an auto-hit? or can negative modifiers still affect the result?

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Booteefool
3/10

@Boy_vs_Girl
DO YOU HEAR THE VOICES TOO?

happy_sad
happy_sad

@King_Martha
It's not, you can have automatic misses from modifiers.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@King_Martha

Nope, you can in fact become immune to shooting. Especially against Orks.

Except against stuff that auto-hits of course.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Booteefool
Guard was banned in my store
I love this meme

Techpill
Techpill

@Boy_vs_Girl
I was literally just listening to the GK in DoW1 and Lord Com in DoW 2 to get pumped to work on models

Methshot
Methshot

@StrangeWizard
Vaul Support Battery: -47
Holy shit, that's down from 77 to 70. That's insane.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@Raving_Cute
Yeah, it's a little funny. I'm reminded of that community post in the release of 8th saying they redid morale to make it more useful, lmao

Honestly commies aren't that bad, only thing I'd like a change is if they could only do one unit at a time or had a chance of failing. That would work, or making snipers aside from the Skitarii one actually be effective

Firespawn
Firespawn

@happy_sad
@SomethingNew
Acquire -2 to hit through bs eldar shit
Park unit in front of Orks

Top kek

RavySnake
RavySnake

@cum2soon
It's a great meme given Eldar are cackling at becoming top tier.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Methshot
yfw you can field D cannons for 120 points each

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@StrangeWizard
Didn't rangers drop a bunch too?

What tier does all this land the Asurianii (or whatever the fuck they are called now) on?

At a glance it seems they aren't getting much better, maybe about the same as admech, below marines and way below guard still.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@DeathDog
They'd be 80 points each, assuming the D-cannon stayed the same price.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@Flameblow
What.....am I looking at here?

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

Anyone doing anything 40k related for Halloween?

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Need_TLC
80 point d cannons

Oh shiiiiiii

King_Martha
King_Martha

@SniperGod
So, uh
Fire Prisms got the Leman Russ's ability to shoot twice. Source: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/20/craftworld-focus-alaitoc-oct-20gw-homepage-post-3/
I have a game against Eldar next week. Should I be concerned?

farquit
farquit

@Boy_vs_Girl
It's about what they should cost, being 24" range and on a t5 w4 4+ save platform.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Flameblow
I've run Crusaders and Bullgryn every game of 8th and I must say, Chimeras with 2 Heavy Flamers is consistently a useful way to use them. Obviously, I couldn't run Crusaders in Chimeras until the Codex, but I used Immolators before and that worked quite nice. Taurox is a decent idea, but the benefit for using a Chimera is that you can run 10 Crusaders with a Psyker and Priest and 4 Bullgryn instead of 3. Another thing to note is that taking 3 Bullgryn/Ogryn with an Ogryn bodyguard is also a nice way to run them in a Chimera.

As for the Chimera's guns, you can run double Heavy Bolter, or Heavy Bolter and Heavy Flamer as well. Those are okay, but double Heavy Flamer has given me by far better results. I personally think that Chimeras should be moving around constantly, especially if you fill them up with melee units like Crusaders or Bullgryn. Once they dump their payload, Chimeras should be eating Overwatch for your melee squad by charging in first, they should be burning things, grabbing objectives and being a pain in the ass for anyone to assault. 2D6 auto hits in Overwatch is fierce. Not to mention even when it's on 1-2 wounds, gimping around, it's still hitting at full damage in the shooting phase. Keeping a Chimera still so it can fire 1-2 Heavy Bolters is a big waste and having it move around hitting on 5+ and 6+ after a little bit of damage is a huge waste of potential in my experience.

Valkyries, especially with their point reductions, are another great way to transport Bullgryn and Crusaders. Probably the best way to be honest because you can move 20 inches, disembark 3, move 6 and then charge. That's an insane threat range and can definitely get you to the enemies lines turn 1. When you've dumped that kind of threat into someone's lines along with Scions you've given your long ranged guns free reign of the battlefield.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@Nude_Bikergirl
Looks like a poorly taken picture of Crusader conversions.

takes2long
takes2long

@Nude_Bikergirl
WHFB Chaos Warriors with Marine and Scion heads it looks like.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Flameblow
Why not Valkyrie? Seems like the obvious way to get up close fast.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@King_Martha
It makes them actually useful, so I guess so?

Playboyize
Playboyize

@Stark_Naked

I fucking laugh at guard now. Once I shit all over the officers and commissars its game over. I was already winning games with a high degree of consistency with CW:E and the new book just makes us better.

Techpill
Techpill

@Flameblow
The conversions look cool, get a non-shit picture and give a quick run down on bitz pls.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@King_Martha
unless your game is next saturday you have nothing to worry about, if they try pulling that shit before call them out and ask where in the index that rule is.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Raving_Cute
It's just the most CONVENIANT way of keeping the conscripts in line, though. Among our other options:

Valhallans Halving the Moral Casualties
Valhallan Relic Pistol turns Commanders into Commissars
Fight to the Death (1 CP)
Mordian Base-touching (+1 Ld)
Catachans in order range (+1 Ld)
Sargent Kell
Psychic Power: Mental Fortitude
And the Best one, because modeling opportunities!
Ordo Prefectus Leman Russ (2cp)

I mean, the Commissar is still the best, but its not like an army that isn't prepared to loose its officers to sniper fire can't staunch the flow.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Boy_vs_Girl
75 points, D-Cannon went down by 5

so 225 gives you a trio of D-Cannons in one slot

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Stark_Naked

Yeah rangers are down 8 points to 12 ppm now as well. I'll update the list.

Thing didn't mention them in his first non-tapping review so I didn't put it in there.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

Are faction traits killing Our Guy armies? Seems kind of WAACy if you bring an army and run it as whatever trait. I have my Orks painted as just a general warband and not in any specific Klan so when the codex drops I'm not sure which Klan I should pick.

Supergrass
Supergrass

Wave Serpents can Deep Strike now, in groups of 3, as a stratagem

HELLO SIR WOULD YOU LIKE SOME FIRE DRAGONS

Lunatick
Lunatick

@lostmypassword
Well okay.
I'm glad he's only got one at least and that I play Guard

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@BlogWobbles

There's a 60 man tournament in Queensland next Saturday.

Not that it should matter since they've already said the cut-off date for allowable Codices was 15th October.

girlDog
girlDog

@Garbage Can Lid
sounds like you will have 1 more chance to win against eldar then this edition.

farquit
farquit

@Supergrass
Im going to drop in 3 serpents loaded with d scthe wraithguard and suporting characters.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Supergrass
Finally, Eldar coming to me instead of flying around like faggots all game flying away from me.

idontknow
idontknow

Now that I can finally play Eldar without getting Lynched , what kind of units besides rangers would be fluffy for alaitoc to have?

hairygrape
hairygrape

Looking to get into Dark Eldar and the HQ all seem like garbage traps. Just seems like a tax on all your detachments. The Archon seems alright but everything else seems bad

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@idontknow

What do you mean? That book is going to shit on dudes.

Snarelure
Snarelure

my Wraithlords are basically the only unit in the codex that can't Deep Strike or move at sanic speeds

goddammit

Emberfire
Emberfire

GK and CSM are the only Codexes released so far without any way in book to gain command points during the game
What did GW mean by this?

Firespawn
Firespawn

@StrangeWizard
Could you give some source for that?

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Supergrass
what is that, 36 melta guns behind my lines?

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Techpill
It's pretty much what
@takes2long
Said
Just chaos warriors with cleaned up bodies and less fur. Shaved down shields with actual power swords and whatever heads I can find plus various purity seals and bits. It's all Blu tac'd at the moment so I can play around with trimmings and poses.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@SomethingNew
I dont think youll say that when you get hit with a 30 man bansheestar.

@idontknow
going straight in for the -3 to hit rangers

WAACfag detected.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@hairygrape
It's because they lost all their named characters.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Supergrass
Why learn to play when your designer is Phil Kelly

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Snarelure
T8 though now, substantially tougher.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@Carnalpleasure
That book is going to shit on dudes.

People were saying the same about IG, and yet so far you don't hear the amount of constant complaints and clamouring for nerfs like you had with 7th edition Tau, Eldar and fromation SM.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Methshot
To 30, derp. 80 points for a D-Cannon. That's... something.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@BlogWobbles
Sounds like a bunch of dead Banshees to me.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Emberfire
terrible commanders i guess. i mean abadon has had 13 failed crusades, and the grey knights boss thought it was a good idea to kill a bunch of sisters of battle and polish their armor with the blood, probably didnt inspire much loyalty, cause if an ally like sisters are so easily thrown away, how much more would it take for them to be discarded by the boss

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@Firespawn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOT-PTzfFIA&t=602s

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@RumChicken
Fucking named characters... Also seems dumb that it's like impossible to put squads and HQs in the same boat. I can do two 5 mans or a 10 man with Dark Lance in a raider. Or 9, no Lance and an archon. Maybe I'll put him in a venom with an entourage of bodyguards.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@RavySnake
chaos warriors and purity seals
triggered

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

Eldar getting all these buffs

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Stark_Naked
If Guard are tier 0 (which they may well not be, SoCal open this weekend will be the judge), then CWE will easily land tier 1. I could see them being as competitive as Ynnari. But even if the stratagems, traits and attributes aren't enough, Ynnari still get the same point decreases. They're gonna wreck shit, mark my words.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@Fuzzy_Logic
Cant overwatch banshees now m8 :^)

MPmaster
MPmaster

@BlogWobbles
the Codex review was really ambiguous, but it SOUNDS like Warlock Buffs (Enhance, Empower, etc etc) are no longer AoE, and are instead just pick one thing. Empower is confirmed one thing at 18", and Enhance was buffed to 18", so I seriously doubt it's a giant AoE bubble.

So only 10 Banshees at a time get to jump down someone's throat with +1 to hit, +1 to wound, 3+ armor, and a 30" charge radius

could just do it to Wraithblades instead though.

farquit
farquit

@Garbage Can Lid
Good luck m8.
Orktoberfest is shaping up to be mostly Guard at this point.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Lunatick
Yeah and I can make 15 for $40 instead of 2 for $15. Fite me

happy_sad
happy_sad

>>55979921
that pic
Guilliman, cawl and a daemon prince give you 1 point
somehow killing a full unit of TH/SS assault terminators gives you 3
gunning down some fucking conscripts or cultists gives you 7
Did FLG do this?

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Lord_Tryzalot
Don't really care about that. I intend to bash their skulls in with melee, which I've done many times.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@happy_sad
It's one of the situations where power points would be useful.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@StrangeWizard
I wouldn't be surprised if Chapter Approved had adjustments of comparable size for most factions. We've seen more and more points adjustments as the codexes have gone on.

WebTool
WebTool

@SniperGod
So if Ballistic skill modifiers take you past a 6 to hit, do you just auto miss?

I ask because many games have it where a 6 always hits, or in Bolt Action's case, you roll a 6 and then need to confirm it with another 6 if you need a 7+ to hit.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@hairygrape
Archon with a Blaster/Agonizer is an okay default. Succubus is good if you're taking Wych stuff she can hang with. Drazhar is good if you take a squad of nine Incubi.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@farquit

Yeah my Orks have an uphill battle that's for sure.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@WebTool

That is correct, you auto miss.

FastChef
FastChef

@King_Martha
Well let's see, the Fire Prism's AT shot:
2D3 shots =>4 Attacks =>2.67 Hits =>1.78 Wounds => 3.56 Wounds per turn.
Versus a Battle Cannon Commander (Catachan):
2D6 => 7 (8) shots =>3.5 (4) hits => 2.33 (2.66) wounds=>1.55 (1.77) unsaved=> About 3.1 (3.54) wounds.

So the Prism is slightly better than the battle cannon, BUT they can't take additional lascannons, plasma cannons, or machine guns. It's a pretty even fight. I'd put money on the Fire Prism, but who stacks the most buffs could swing things either way.

Now the Strategem: It's powerful, but using lower cost tanks instead of lords of war deminishes it's utility. To save on math, two Fire Prisms bouncing their shots will score about 16 wounds average. BUT, if the first Fire Prism kills the tank, then the second fire prism still has to shoot the dead husk because it already declared its target. Likewise, if the first Prism rolls low, then the player is forced to decide between adding a third fire prism to the CP, or trusting the second fire prism which CANNOT FIRE UNTIL THE END OF THE PHASE to kill the Russ. If it doesn't kill the Russ, then that's a wasted CP, as the techpriest heals the tank up and a little Jury Rigging boosts it's BS for a counterattack.

Killshot is honestly a better CP in my opinion because it turns Autocannon Predators into beasts at a fraction of the cost, and said predators don't have to focus fire and can instead target whatever they please.

JunkTop
JunkTop

@StonedTime
Yeah my Orks have an uphill battle that's for sure.
What are you taking?

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@WebTool
in the rulebook, a 1 is an auto-fail, but a 6 is not an auto-success

so if you have 4+ to hit, and get forced to suck on a -3, then you literally cannot hit your target.

Given that these are shenanigans rivalling the 2++ Dreadknight, there's a solid chance of Errata telling Altaioc to stop being invisible

whereismyname
whereismyname

@PurpleCharger
You can only do it to a single unit that's beyond 12". Strong we're not quite at game breaking level yet.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@PurpleCharger
@ZeroReborn
So invisible deathstars are back, got it.

I feel bad for Orks, at least my army has some ways to buff my accuracy up to where I can still hit some of the new Eldar stuff on 6's.

Granted I doubt the "invisible" stuff is really that crazy but it's still annoying.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@WebTool
I get the feeling this will be FAQ'd/Errata'd once the designers realize they made the Orks literally unplayable because of this.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

eldar artillery batteries dropped like forty fucking points
Yowza

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@whereismyname
Conceal is an aura. You can hide a LOT of Rangers if you want.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Supergrass
Or you could just roll the rangers over with boyz.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Supergrass
Why not give Orks specifically an auto hit on 6 ability?

King_Martha
King_Martha

@CodeBuns
Are faction traits killing Our Guy armies?
Yes, basically. I don't know why they didn't take the same approach as the dwarf sky sailors from AoS and have a build-your-own option for each army like the old doctrines system.

In fact, since it seems most of these traits are basically the same for each army, why not include the generic ones (6+ ignore wounds, -1 to be hit over 12", bonus advance distance) in the main rulebook, like the generic warlord traits?

Anyway, now that we've seen the pattern, which subfactions are likely to get the predictable bonuses?

For orks, I'm fairly sure blood axes are going to be -1 to hit, evils suns bonus advance, possibly snake bites for the ignore wound effect, re-roll 1 for shooting for bad moons, same but with fighting for goffs, which basically just leaves deff skulls as the mystery one...

For tau septs and tyranid hive fleets, I have no fucking idea.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@BlogWobbles
How does the Archon save work. Of he gets say 5 wounds, do I make 5 2++ or do I make each save individually and if the 3rd one fails, the rest are not 2++

farquit
farquit

@JunkTop

Pure Dread Mob. I tried putting together a list that I could both play to the time limit and could win, and it just couldn't be done. I tried a practice game and the time limit totally blew out, and on the Kill Points rules for the Tertiary, which is every mission, I just stood no chance

I fully expect to be completely slaughtered but I've got some cool conversions in there so I'm basically just planning on showing up, having some fun and not caring if I'm winning.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Spamalot
Each individually.

takes2long
takes2long

@whereismyname
It's also going to be VERY IMPORTANT to see if Avatars can take Relics

because the Altaioc Relic is "another -1 to hit you with guns"

so an Altaioc Avatar of Khaine can just sprint downfield while you have -2 to hit him (-3 when concealed) until he reaches optimal FUCK distance

I'm also interested to see how a Phoenix Gem interacts with The Avatar Resurgent

we may get super-fast invisible avatars who get to respawn TWICE if killed in melee

massdebater
massdebater

@King_Martha
But anooooooon. MY Guard got all unique and fluffy traits : ^ )

idontknow
idontknow

@FastChef
I would screencap this, but people won't let it stop them from autistically screeching about how fire prisms are the most OP tanks now.

And I play marines myself, so I don't want anybody to realize how good Killshot is so it never gets nerfed.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@takes2long
I very much doubt that they can and if not, it'll be fixed right quick.

Playboyize
Playboyize

@Illusionz
why would you feel bad for orks, they wouldnt hit in the shooting anyways, that buff for eldar affects them 0. orks are gonna run up and punch out their runty little teef anyways. orks always win baby, always

Methnerd
Methnerd

@Illusionz
So invisible deathstars are back, got it.
Currently the only unit capable of this is Aliatoc Pathfinders supported with a warlock/spiritseer.

TreeEater
TreeEater

Does anyone else not highlight? I think they'd make my models look a lot better but it'd just take too long/be too difficult to edge highlight everyone.

I'm always worried I'll mess it up, but I think I'll just do it anyway, starting from the most disposable guys and moving up slowly.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@hairygrape
They are, the best thing to do is take the minimum number of cheap ass archons you need for your detatchment and put them all in the same venom with a slyth or two. Makes your required purchase an acceptable horde thinner, which we have issues with anyway. I usually run a brigade with 3 Archons and 2 Sslyth at 2k points.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Illusionz
Not invisible Deathstars. The offensive out of these units isn't anywhere near Deathstar level. Ranger offense is improved, but still isn't that great, and the alternative is one Hemlock. Honestly a ton of Dark Reapers at -2 is probably scarier.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Alaitoc attribute was errata's to not stack with conceal kinda like how Ulthwe doesn't stack with Spirit Stones.

WebTool
WebTool

@TreeEater
Just drybrush

@Methnerd
I figured people were probably blowing it out of proportion, thanks. So it's going from "bullshit 7th edition all over again" to just "really annoying".

@Playboyize
Their whole bit is they can't hit shit. That's why they get so many shots. They really need some sort of "6 always hits" mechanic to help represent the fact that they create a literal wall of lead when they fire.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@kizzmybutt
As far as I know so far, the Phoenix Gem respawns the bearer with 1 Wound "The First Time" they are slain. The Avatar Resurgent respawns the bearer with 1d6 Wounds "If the Avatar is Slain"

so you could do one, and then the other. Downside is, I don't know if the Phoenix Gem prevents further attacks from your killer like The Avatar Resurgent does, so you may be forced to use them both immediately, but its still goddamned hilarious

I cant wait for the physical incarnation of WAR to be the scariest motherfucker on the table

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Supergrass
Take some fucking Kommandos and/or Stormboyz.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@CouchChiller
Yeah, having the most cost effective troops in the game and giving them half a dozen methods to ignore the one weakness of hordes in 8th was sure a good move.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@BlogWobbles

Nids don't suck, just take Flying Hive Tyrants

This is you last edition.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@TurtleCat
They haven't been able to take relics before, so I doubt that they will now.

Illusionz
Illusionz

What would be the cheapest and/or most effective way to bring smite spam as a support choice for my Witch Hunters?

Ideally within T3 master race

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@TechHater
My first game with open play cards my opponent wont in the movement phase of the first turn. He went first too.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Ignoramus
Who runs pure shooting orkz?

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Booteefool
Guard was banned
Please tell me this is just a meme. Is your LGS actually this retarded?

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Supergrass
Orks are a melee race, retard.

girlDog
girlDog

@WebTool
ork special rule wall of lead, for every (4)* 6's rolled in the shoot phase. before rerolls, the enemy unit suffers 1 mortal wound
i just put 4 as a number, maybe higher or lower depening on how % work out, would a rule like that make you happy?

happy_sad
happy_sad

@Illusionz
inquisitor
primaris psyker
astropath
grey Knights
That's really all you'll need

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Illusionz
Primaris psykers and astropaths.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Supergrass
Complains that Orks will be unplayable because they won't be able to hit something with their shooting

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA*takes deep breath*HAHAHAHAHAHAHA-

Inmate
Inmate

@whereismyname
Actually, hold on

you're probably right simply because

nearly every Craftworld relic specifies INFANTRY may take it, and nothing else. So the Avatar of Khaine cannot wear a sneaky ranger cloak.

likme
likme

@WebTool
I'd love them to just get a rule called "literal wall of lead" to be honest.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Supergrass
Pretty sure that the designers don't give a shit about orks being playable (see the 7th edition codex) and even if they did, they think that the one true way to play orks is as a goff melee horde so shooting is irrelevant.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@WebTool
"really annoying".
Pretty much. Rangers will be whittling down your exposed characters until you deal with them and you pretty much have to root them with assault.

Techpill
Techpill

@BlogWobbles
I still doubt Howling Banshees will be much good against anything with halfway passable defenses. S3 is just too pathetic, and they have only 2 attacks a pop. They need a psychic power to wound MEQ on 4s, for fuck's sake.

Their ideal target seems to be, like, flamer-spamming (they ignore Overwatch now) low T high save 1W infantry. Does anything like that even exist? I guess they can give Tau gunlines a hard time. You know, cause those guys were so oppressive.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@RavySnake
Those look pretty neat. I'll have to keep this conversion in mind if I ever want to make crusaders.

Evilember
Evilember

@PurpleCharger
so far you don't hear the amount of constant complaints and clamouring for nerfs like you had with 7th edition Tau, Eldar
You kinda do. Not helped by various guardfags being cunts about it all.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Techpill
Their ideal target seems to be, like, flamer-spamming (they ignore Overwatch now) low T high save 1W infantry. Does anything like that even exist?

Sisters of Battle.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Techpill
They are made to kill... Sobs?

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Garbage Can Lid

Nobody, but half the Ork index is shooting units, and there's currently no reason to take them, even without -1 to hit being handed out like candy. Taking some shooting units to round out a list should be an option for Orks, but for a whole plethora of factors, of which -1 to hit is just one, it's simply not viable.

eGremlin
eGremlin

@happy_sad
GK
Ignoring the inferior marines.
Beside feeling some Chimeras or Valkyrie with as many Inquisitors, Astropath and Primaris could there be a use for special weapon squad?

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@w8t4u
*cringe*

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Supergrass
GW
Giving a shit about Orks being playable

zogs me nog

whereismyname
whereismyname

@ZeroReborn
That's nothing new though, it's been that way since the SM codex.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@Flameblow
@DeathDog
Banshees vs SoB Catfight

Now that is something we need some lewd artwork about

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@Garbage Can Lid
Fluffy bad moonz (and arguably deffskull) players?

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Ignoramus
What? Not even remotely. Neither of those units is overpowered, Just solid useful units. Regular boyz are usually better, but those two are just the right tool for this particular job. Rangers get to shrug off shooting but fold immediately to an assault unit that can put a boot on their face. Kommados and Stormboyz can both do that in a hurry. Hell, "Da Jump" could probably do it too, but that's a bigger tactical commitment than I think they normally warrant.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@idontknow
It's almost like people don't consider the implications of gameplay rules in favor of pure math or something.

As a guard player I'm not exactly ecstatic to loose my "Best Tank in the Galaxy" status, but I'm not angry and I don't think the Russ has fallen from grace in any sense of the word. Odds are in a tank-heavy battle, I'll be able to devise a strategy to hold my own. Worst case scenario? I just go Tallern, throw my tanks in reserve, and let the enemy waste a shooting phase on chaff. Then walk onto my own side of the board and get the strike I need to break the inter-tank synergy of the Eldar Focus Fire/Predator Killshot/Tau Longstrike armies.

And that is the true strength of the Leman Russ: We don't need special synergy to fight: Our tanks, especially the commanders, are just as good alone as they are together. I can stop Killshot by killing one tank, or stop Focus Fire by killing or just heavily damaging each prism, and the Longstrike Strategy is very dependent on one particular thing not dying which is never a good plan in Warhammer 40k. But unless you take Pask, a Guard Armor corps is just naturally good.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@Poker_Star
Eh, if a guy has committed to a strategy that much to kill a couple commissars he's earned them in my opinion. I'll just move up and kill the rest of his army at that point I guess.

Eldar snipers don't have any crazy AT rifle they snipe with right? It's not like admech where you think

snipers
threat

Then realize they're S7 and do D3 damage a pop.

Because if they've just got regular sniper rifles that's not a big deal, annoying yes, but not invincible.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@King_Martha
Horde armies are highly unlikely to get the -1 to hit, or the 6+ FNP. I'd bet Orks and Tyranids will be fairly unique in terms of traits.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@WebTool
@Boy_vs_Girl
Foolish Ork, thinking it could ever hit a Ranger.

girlDog
girlDog

@Stupidasole
Hopefully the Armageddon rumors are true and they get a new model line and maybe rules that dont make me want to vomit.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Flameblow
SoB
spamming anything but meltas
Maybe in 7th, but in 8th it is melta all day every day.

The only reason SoB would bring flamers if they know the other player is bringing hordes

5mileys
5mileys

@whereismyname

It's been that way since the index dropped. Like I said, there are tons of issues with Orks outside of spamming Boyz, it's just that -1 to hit affects Orks disproportionatly highly and is one more nail in the coffin of non-monobuild Orks.

@Lunatick

Nids had a monobuild. It wasn't the best, but it was competitive. The rest of their units were deep-fried dog shit.

Orks have a monobuild. It isn't the best, but it's competitive. The rest of their units are deep-friend squig shit.

takes2long
takes2long

@Flameblow
@DeathDog
just like my fanfics

w8t4u
w8t4u

@farquit
That scoring system is retarded. I mean, I'd be down for giving elite armies a hand, but fucking snowflake unkillable characters have to ruin it all.

@takes2long
IIRC they said the Avatar of Khaine can only take one relic, which makes you deal d3 MWs (don't know the range) when you die and if it kills a model, you get back up with 1 wound.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@ZeroReborn
Big Guns and Dakkajets are already tourney viable. KMK Mek Guns are a bit worse than Kannons but are also okay.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@Illusionz
What does your army look like? Primaris Psykers and Astropaths are a good way of having tons of powers.

I want to do more of an Inquisition army, but my army is basically just Guard with an Inquisitor or two and some Scions that I consider to be her men.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Illusionz
Witch Hunters
smite spam
Fuck off, WAAC scum.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@Techpill
The main purpose of Banshees instead seems to be as a Super Tarpit Deluxe for any scary melee thing you want to accomplish nothing for extended periods of time

they cant be Overwatched, cant be fled from (fucking 22" charge radius on average), grant -1 to hit in melee, and with a couple Warlocks tagging along (who would likely need Jetbikes to keep up admittedly), you can up that to -2 to hit them, -1 to wound them, while they pack 3+ armor or potentially 5+ Feel No Pain if you have a Farseer throw them a bone

Guilliman himself can only peel 4 of the little bastards off of him a turn, and his sword's special tarpit-fucking ability literally cannot trigger.

Thunder Hammer terminators hit them on 6+. gigantic mobs of Boyz have to settle for hitting on 5s and wounding on 4s. etc

TreeEater
TreeEater

@Emberburn
issues with hordes
Splinter cannons in venoms seem decent

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Lord_Tryzalot

It is also less viable than a good ole warlord on a jetbike with a reaper launcher. Far more effective system of ballroom blitzing characters.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@TreeEater
they arent

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@kizzmybutt
Witch Hunters
as in Hunters of Witches
not as in retards that won't use proper magic to fight witch magic
Do you even Inquisition?!

RavySnake
RavySnake

@girlDog
@likme
Nah. Better take what some user was saying the other day:
Dakka dakka dakka: Units with this rule cannot have their chance to hit when shooting ranged weapons lowered below 6, eg, rolling a 6 will always result in a successful hit, regardless of any modifiers.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@w8t4u
So I assume you just never try Lootas, or Mek Guns, or Kannons, or Flyers of any type? I'm not complaining about not being able to hit much; I'm complaining about not being able to shoot at all!

Look, I like Boys as much as the next guy, but I'd like to have a little variety in my horde.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Deadlyinx
You can't charge more than 12". They're super reliable but not super fast.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Bidwell

Big Guns and Dakkajets are already tourney viable.

No, they show up in tournaments. That's not the same at all. Now, if you're thinking that's pure refined autism, hold your horses a moment. The reason I say that is because tournaments have time limits. Ork tournament lists spam Boyz, Kommandos (sneaky Boyz) or Stormboyz (fast Boyz). These are all varients on the Green Tide idea. But you can't spend all your points on that because you'd never finish a game. So you fill the rest of your list with small units that are easy to move and play with. Kannons and Dakkajets fill that position perfectly. But they're not actually very good. They're just leftovers you spend your points on.

TechHater
TechHater

Preorders are up for Oz.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Emberburn
After the last two Mass Effects, it was pretty clear what Andromeda was going to be like. DoW3 decided to go trail-blazing in new, retarded directions.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Sharpcharm
It is also less viable than a good ole warlord on a jetbike with a reaper launcher. Far more effective system of ballroom blitzing characters.

The what now?

Guard player here, I don't necessarily need my characters to win the game but since I bring a lot of guardsmen they definitely help.

What's it do?

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@Emberburn
Not fighting
Not even touching each other
No torn and rend armour showing juicy bodyparts

-3 to hit/10

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@CouchChiller
12"
15" they can declare against units 15" away.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@Lord_Tryzalot
Yeah. Just standard sniper rifles. Also the Hemlock needs to get within 16" to fire which pretty much mitigates the Alaitoc trait by itself.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@TalkBomber
You aren't fooling anyone.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@CouchChiller
8" move, can advance and charge, get +3" to charge distance, and EXPLICITLY in the codex may target charge targets 15" away. Even then, I was assuming an average roll of 7 for their charge and 3 for their advance.

So, 8+3+7+3(+1 because you only need to get within an inch) charge radius. Plus another 8 if you quicken them.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@Burnblaze
Boo. Do wyches tangle up hordes enough or is the game plan just to skirt around them?

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@CodeBuns

Eldar Warlord trait - you may target enemy characters even if they aren't the closest model. Pop that on an Autarch on a bike with a reaper launcher and you've got a lovely character killer - especially characters like guard.

MPmaster
MPmaster

@Illusionz
Primaris Psykers are the best Smite spammers in the game in points-per-MW after Malefic Lords. Interestingly, Spiritseers seem to be coming up hot in third after the points decreases (44 points to the PP's 40). Also, this makes Warlocks' Smite even more comparatively worthless.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@5mileys
Orks have a lot of play around the Boyz+Weirdboyz shell. Yes you aren't spamming Flash Gitz, But I'd hardly call it monobuild, particularly when the thing you must take is their core infantry unit.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Fried_Sushi
Fair enough. Can they stop stuff from falling back though? Because that seems like a problem for them.

takes2long
takes2long

@CodeBuns
Warlord Trait gives the Eldar Warlord the ability to target characters all day every day

Reaper Launcher is Heavy1 S8 AP-2 D3, or Heavy2 S6 AP-2 D2 (that's flat damge on both, not a roll)

and Saim-hann Jetbikes ignore penalties for moving and shooting heavy weapons. So a space elf commander can zip around 16" a turn firing krak missiles at commanders with 2+ rerolling 1s to hit

w8t4u
w8t4u

So do the Black Ships deal with blanks or does someone else scoop them up?

likme
likme

Played a game against an Eldar guy using all the new stratagems/attributes but not the new points costs as full codex isnt out.

I won still but once those huge points reductions come into play they're gonna be very very good.

Fire dragons using fire and fade all game to destroy a unit then run back into the wave serpent is insane. Dark reapers are already great and with a 25% points drop are gonna be even better The Avatar resurgent stratagem was especially tough for me as my only way to kill that thing is with my CC units.

I'm happy to admit I'm just salty. I wanted Eldar to be average for a while longer so there could be some variation around my area. I got pretty sick of everyone playing super strong Eldar lists during the last few years.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@girlDog
rules that dont make me want to vomit.
I hope you sell your Orks.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@PackManBrainlure
I thought we all agreed to tell him they were shit? Especially bib priest?

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

When it comes to Armageddon in the old lore, was the Third War meant to be like Stalingrad and the Season of Fire like the Russian Winter?

And what is it with a lot of Ork things like their bommas, helmets, stick bomms and what not resembling things used by the German military at some point?

I think the head Ork clan, the Goffs, even use black as a preferred color like the Nazis, not that it means anything.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Soft_member
Yet Kroot did well enough...

Evilember
Evilember

@Flameblow
@DeathDog
Wow, fuck, I described SoBs like perfectly and didn't realize. Well, if the concern trolling guardfags that kept insisting SoB were OP actually had a point, we're getting some counters at least. I can live with boob plate catfights being the future of the meta.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@ZeroReborn
autism
Yup.

WebTool
WebTool

@Nude_Bikergirl
Basically skirt around them. Wyches will tie them up but they are a waste of points. Better to pick your opponent apart with Darklight weapons and go in for the hordes last. Surprisingly, the only army I have problems with is Orks. I just can't kill 200 screaming green retards before I'm surrounded.

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Sir_Gallonhead
@takes2long
Ah, only one guy will be able to do it and he's gotta do a very specific build to do it, that's fair then.

Honestly as an IG player I kind of feel our characters are stupid durable already, kind of nice to finally see something that can drop them with some reliability.

This is also ignoring the fact that at best he'll get 6 or 7 of the entire game if he rolls hot and never fails. Even my 1000pts army has ways to mitigate that a bit.

Worst case scenario a guy tries to cheese me and tailor to my list and I'll just bring a few ogryn body guards to fuck with him.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Evilember
Except SoB do not spam flamers in 8th
Maybe Catachan?

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@CodeBuns
What's it do?
Warlord trait ignores charcter targeting rules

48" S5 -2 D2 Heavy 2
or
48" S8 -2 D3 Heavy 1
2+ to hit with rerolls.
on T4 3+/4++ that moves 16" a turn

Supergrass
Supergrass

@LuckyDusty
Don't trying to shoot the Rangers to death. Shoot other stuff. Other than Lootas the stuff you listed is BS 4+ which is the same boat as lots of armies.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@kizzmybutt
I did. My best friend had been wanting to get into 40k for years, specifically with Orks. I sold my 4000 some odd points to him a month after 6th dropped, by that point having finished my DE army and not planning on going back any time soon. I may start collexting them again if they get models that actually look nice, but I can't stand the current boy model with the ass sticking out.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@Sharpcharm
ork lore used to heavily reference WWI/WWII German aesthetics. Pickehaubes, Stahlhelms, potato masher grenades, jack boots, the entire concept of stormboyz, etc. That was part of their stick

5mileys
5mileys

@girlDog
Man, how hype would that be. If Ultramarines vs Death Guard was 2017's thing with Guilliman vs Mortarion, 2018 brings a souped-up Ghazgkhull, fresh from his hyperbolic time chamber training in Octarius with a Primarch statline (and new model to match), going to claim his rightful place in Armageddon as the new Beast with Angron and his World Eaters on one side and the Imperial Guard led by Yarrick on the other.

Will never happen because it features something without pauldrons, but a guy can dream.

Bidwell
Bidwell

Culexus or Sisters of Silence?

idontknow
idontknow

@Bidwell
Culexus and its not even remotely close.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

Is everyone here really not bothered by the obvious power creep we are already getting with 8th edition codex releases? I mean sure, it is great when your dudes get suddenly strong enough to beat other armies that were keeping you down in the past, but isn't it really bad for a game to have such fragile state of balance?

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

Will Guardians and Vaul's Wrath be viable with the codex? They get some decent toys, and can pull some shenanigains. Deep Striking Wave Serpent full of Guardians to dump 32 Shuriken shots on a target of choice for what, 210 points, maybe 210. Deep Striking Guardians, 75 point D-Cannon platforms, emergency 4++s, either FnP or free elf commissars, pretty damn strong psychic support

I have a real soft spot for Heavy Weapon Batteries and Support Weapon Batteries so I'd be tickled to see such things in high volume be viable, if not monstrous

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Bidwell
More like Cutelexus

TreeEater
TreeEater

@likme
I had problems with Eldar when they were just the index. I'm going to get stomped for sure when the Codex comes out. Mobility is so strong yet again.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@AwesomeTucker
Are you talking shit about ME2? Cause we don't hold with that talk in this household.

Evilember
Evilember

@Bidwell
Isn't the Culexus girl the one that swallowed the baby whole? So, uh, her, I guess.

Firespawn
Firespawn

Just started basecoating my Horus Heresy Novamarine Chaplain.
I know that there were no Novamarines then just yet, but I do enjoy the color pattern

SniperWish
SniperWish

@WebTool
Thanks user. I'm pumped to pick up DE as my second army. Seem very conversion friendly and <your dudes> - able.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@kizzmybutt
supposedly points tweaks will be coming in chapter approved around christmas. If that's the case the newest codex seem pretty balanced to one another. If GW tweaks the rest to fall into line with them (or vice versa) it wouldn't be too bad. Most issues are just points costs after all, there are few specific rules that break the game regardless of the price of the models they're on.

eGremlin
eGremlin

@eGremlin

It isn't the only method - I'll be running him, a farseer with mindwar and probably a unit or 2 of rangers. Eldar will have a pretty reasonably strong character removal tool kit. The nicest part is that none of those units are bad at other roles.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@happy_sad

Until they gave all that stuff to Krieg?

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@kizzmybutt
Once all the Codexes + Chapter Approved are out it will be stable for quite a long while.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Evilember
No that was a Callidus, the shape-shifting assassin. Culexus is the psychic null assassin that drains peoples soul and can't get cheesed by psychic shenanigans.

Nojokur
Nojokur

Can Guard take Rough Riders now that the codex is out and they aren't in it?

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@kizzmybutt
Power creep has been a thing since they unveiled the rip tide back in 5th.maybe even before then.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@kizzmybutt
Codex creep is definitely a thing, but I have *some* faith in Chapter Approved to keep things relatively even.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

My army is largely filled with deep striking nonsense like Paladins and Scions with backup Crusaders. Largely close range and in your face.

I want to include an Assassin for funsies.

Which is the best assassin for me?

viagrandad
viagrandad

@eGremlin
a farseer with mindwar
Did they buff it? Every time someone has tried to mind war me in the past I've won, IG character leadership isn't bad and I'm dumb enough to run standards so my guys normally have LD 9

@BinaryMan
Krieg is more a mix of everything from WWI, not just krauts. You see a lot of french influence in their uniforms in particular.

Not to mention the krieg have little in common with WWII Germans.

Let me get my phone, I'll see if I can find some of my saved rogue trader/2nd ed ork stuff, you'll see what I mean.

takes2long
takes2long

@Nojokur
Yeah you can take the index ones.

massdebater
massdebater

@kizzmybutt
It's most Codex vs. Not-Codex which is whatever. the IG book is better than CWE in my option and probably the weakest book, AdMech was the one before that. I don't see any real creep aside from the fact that the first couple books were clearly finalized before GW had any feedback from the wider playerbase during full release (Hence the smaller number of points adjustments). But that's what Chapter Approved is for.

likme
likme

@Nojokur
Yes, index rules still work. They are lots of fun, I use them a lot. They are great with Plasma guns since you can still get the BS4+ discount.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@Burnblaze
ME1->ME2->ME3 all set a trajectory that pointed exactly where Andromeda landed.

Methshot
Methshot

@takes2long
Cool. They can be in the same detachment as codex troops?

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@Methshot
Yep.

RavySnake
RavySnake

@viagrandad

Its just mindwar - 18", roll D6 + LD - if the Eldar player wins you take MW = to the difference. It isn't amazing but given that Eldrad will be the likely caster its not a bad option.

WebTool
WebTool

@Methshot
Yes. They still have the Astra Militarum and <Regiment> keywords.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@Methshot
They can. They can get the <Regiment> tag too, though it's not really useful for most of them. Tallarn maybe.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Methshot
Yes, although it's hard for them to benefit from Doctrines because a lot of them specify Infantry and Vehicles with nothing for Cavalry, but there are a couple that do affect them.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@massdebater
Grey Knights are definitely weaker than AdMech. Then you've got CSM, then Death Guard, then SM, then IG. CWE will probably fall between SM and IG, maybe behind SM (SM are funny to consider balance-wise because Guilliman is so hilarious OP)

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@CouchChiller
@PurpleCharger
@Stark_Naked
@Crazy_Nice
@massdebater
I hope you are right and Chapter Approved along with the rest of the book releases will set things on a more stable course. Thankfully, CA is supposed to come out at the end of the year so we don't have to wait too long.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@VisualMaster
@LuckyDusty
@WebTool
@Burnblaze
Thanks. I have a bunch of DKoK Rough Riders and was worried that they got squatted.
Seems like they're the cheapest Fast Attack choice for the 9CP detachment.

Inmate
Inmate

@whereismyname
SM are funny to consider balance-wise because Guilliman is so hilarious OP

True. SM both benefit from and are hurt be not having many points adjustments. That said I think you could make a pretty strong Ultra or Raven Guard shooting list without Rowboat if you had to.

idontknow
idontknow

@TechHater
Can't wait to play on Sunday, will hopefully have my bloat drone painted by then. Played a game last weekend of Thousand Sons vs Eldar and tied. We had lots of fun denying each other's psychic powers.

Techpill
Techpill

@happy_sad
At one point they even had swastikas.

Methshot
Methshot

@massdebater
AdMech is far from weak, I don't know why people keep spouting that bullshit.

GK is easily the weakest by far. Space Marines would be right behind them if it weren't for Guilliman, who is getting nerfed in CA.

AdMech is probably going to be smack in the middle of the pack for quite awhile, if the rumours of Tyranids being absolutely bonkers are true.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@viagrandad
Keep in mind singular Scout Sentinels are extremely useful for pushing back deep strikers.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@viagrandad
The Krieg Riders are a different unit entirely, they're only in the Forge World index with the Krieg rules and do not benefit from Doctrines because Krieg doesn't have any Doctrines yet until FW puts out their new 8th edition Codex.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

So, looking at the Spiritseer again, it got a points drop from 66 to 44 points, wargear included. This has several notable effects as I can tell:

- One, Warlocks are completely irrelevant now. They're 30 base + 7 mandatory wargear, and supposedly they said on stream they're now 35 points. If that means full and not naked model, then whoop de doo, a whole 2 point drop. For 9 -NINE- more points, a Spiritseer has twice the wounds, a reroll 1s aura (towards enemies around them) and twice the wounds (and a better WS/BS, not that it matters). It's not like a case of Astropath versus Primaris Psyker where the former can't Smite well but is really cost effective for support powers, Warlocks are very nearly a strict downgrade. So all four Warlock units go into the trash.

- Speaking of Primaris Psykers, they got some stiff competition for the most cost effective full psyker. Spiritseers are 4 points more expensive, but they get a 4++, which is worth the price of admission on its own, as well as slightly worse melee (1 attack and AP less, but 1 more BS and infinity more S) and the reroll ability. Both disciplines have some excellent powers, but the edge I think goes to Runes of Battle, with essentially double the pwoers and some extremely handy bonuses like Empower and Conceal. Let the smite wars begin.

- Fuck Malefic Lords. No seriously, why do these assholes exist?

JunkTop
JunkTop

@Harmless_Venom
Eversor.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@Inmate
That said I think you could make a pretty strong Ultra or Raven Guard shooting list without Rowboat if you had to
Yeah, second place at the GT was a Raven Guard Primaris list. It's a shame that GW hasn't given us any of the other lists; I really want to confirm that the unknown Chaos soup list wasn't primarily CSM.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@TurtleCat

The only Warlock worth looking at at that point would be a Warlock on Bike to keep up with certain units.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@TurtleCat
shhhhh dont let people know about spiritseer spam :^)

Illusionz
Illusionz

@TurtleCat
most cost effective full psyker
Still the Malefic Lord.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@Emberburn
I'll probably just use everyone as Valhallans, since the Grim Demeanor doctrine fits the character of the regiment.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@StrangeWizard
4 WUT FUKKIN PORPISE??

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@Sharpcharm
@Techpill
Blood axes in particular have a lot of that vibe if I remember right.

You still see influences today. Stikk bombs after all are just junky looking potato Mashers and you see a lot of orks with the old crusher caps and even officer hats in artwork.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@Nojokur
Cheap Psyker spam is not even remotely a secret.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Fried_Sushi
Fair enough.

If you do choose to use the actual Krieg rules though, Death Riders are far, far better than Rough Riders.

5mileys
5mileys

@TurtleCat
- Fuck Malefic Lords. No seriously, why do these assholes exist?
You can pry them out of cold hands as soon as GW makes Thousand Sons viable. As long as my Exalted Sorcerers are getting routinely upstaged by random schmucks that cost less than a third of my Exalted, I'll keep a Supreme Command or two of Malefics around.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Crazy_Nice

Because nearly every one of those things was heavily over costed?

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Spamalot
I've been running spiritseer spam since 8th hit, no one has caught on yet

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@5mileys
Enjoy their points skyrocketing upwards in Chapter Approved, faggot.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Illusionz
Point three was intended to cover it. Basically whenever I start analyzing psykers, or cheap HQs, or whatever, a caveat has to be added at the end: "...except for Malefic Lords, which are better".

They're 30 points! Thirty fucking points for a full smite and cast, a T4/W4/4++, and that stupid "survive Perils and turn into a Daemon Primce" rule. Like what the fuck.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@SniperGod
/fit/ edition
YEEEE BOIII

Playboyize
Playboyize

@Crazy_Nice
Balance?

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@Bidwell
That's just because people aren't playing CWE.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@kizzmybutt
Don't accept games with people who use broken Forge World shit.

It doesn't have to even be a blanket ban, just the obviously retarded OP FW shit.

Evilember
Evilember

@Evil_kitten
Is the FW index in one of the "other megas" section of the OP? I didn't think DKoK had rules.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Deadlyinx
which is why i want people to stay the fuck away from spiritseer spam

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@lostmypassword
They'll go up, but they aren't THAT much cheaper than other spammable psykers.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Spamalot
But Spiritseers just joined the ranks, at the detriment of the guys who are supposed to be battle psykers.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@kizzmybutt
The rest of the list sucks balls, they have to have something good.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Crazy_Nice
Eldar has a lot of garbage stuff. They buffed it. Dark Reapers, Wave Serpents, Hemlocks are such are NOT on that list.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Evilember
its in the main mega, you faggot.

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Boy_vs_Girl
Deathwing has excellent voice acting.

Shame the game was buggy dogshit on release. I hear it's gotten better, but I haven't gotten around to trying it out again.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@Evilember
https://mega.nz/#F!bF0ExS4D!_XaMECn0K9HiJKUFSopJLA
It's right there in the main Mega???

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

doesn't use the rules for his models because they don't "fit" or aren't "good enough"
I'M NOT WAAC GUYS

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

Does that Telemon Dreadnought do anything special?

And are Dreadnoughts nearly the size of Knights normal back in 30k's era?

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Emberfire
ust the obviously retarded OP FW shit.
such as?

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@VisualMaster
Hemlocks got nerfed actually. They can only cast the debuff version of Runes of Battle powers, so no buffing themselves with Conceal for -3 to hit.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@Fuzzy_Logic
Has there been any CSM list that isn't Chaos-soup that has performed well enough to be in top3 at any large event? Even Alpha Legion that is pretty close to Raven Guard hasn't been doing well, outside friendly games, at all to my knowledge.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@eGremlin

Marine voice acting is easy. Get someone to sound like a tough British or American action movie guy, and you're done. For an even easier time, run their voice through marine helmet voice modifier, or the Terminator/Dreadnought voice.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@Fuzzy_Logic
i'd say its a push, they got more powerful weapons.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@DeathDog
@BinaryMan
Just found it. Thanks!
[Spoiler]shitcocks

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@StrangeWizard
Malefic Lords, Superchicken, all the shit you see spammed in every top tourney list.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Fried_Sushi
user....please consider what the doctrine affects and what type of unit Rough Riders are...

Booteefool
Booteefool

@PurpleCharger
Depends on the circumstances. Is it a White Scars player using RG tactics to try to hang on in a competitive meta? That's fine. Is it an Imperial Fists player using UM tactics to curb-stomp newbs? That guys a dick.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@VisualMaster

Aren't their Titans also junk now?

The 1d4chan article was disparaging about them.

Spamalot
Spamalot

So much for the balanced codexes this edition.

Is chalking up to look like Eldar are going to be the "do not play with this person" army again.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@CouchChiller
Problem is, with 8th's absurdly permissive detachment system that is tailor made for soup lists, a faction having weaknesses doesn't matter as long as it has one other faction it can ally with that can cover it. Meaning that Supreme Command Detachments full of Malefic Lords can be taken with abandon while the rest of R&H is shite.

More broadly, it means that Imperium Soup is guaranteed to be top tier throughout the entire edition, Chaos just a little less so. Ynnari are essentially Eldar Soup with a broken faction trait as a nice little bonus, though solo CWE may compete. Nids can ally with GSC and IG if they must. Orks, Tau and Necrons will have to bear the weight of actually having to deal with their own strengths and weaknesses (which in 8th, means taking the 3-4 most cost effective units and spamming them while ignoring the rest of the army, because the detachment system does very little to encourage balanced lists.)

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Spamalot
They're on the same level as Guard and where Tyranids are soon expected to be. It doesn't sound like Eldar are WAAC so much as this is the new benchmark for balance and the early Codexes just got shafted because that always happens every edition.

takes2long
takes2long

@Spamalot

Been playing them since them 3rd and it is the one thing you can always count on. Its pretty wonderful knowing that your army will never been anything but fucking good.

askme
askme

@Fuzzy_Logic
-3 to hit/10
Love it

Inmate
Inmate

@Illusionz
Not that I'm aware of. We've got some cute stuff for more casual games (Slaanesh Oblits/Terminators), but nothing that really holds up against the big dogs.

idontknow
idontknow

@Crazy_Nice
Listen, I just want my expensive as fuck horsegermans to feel the wind on their gasmasks again

likme
likme

@Booteefool
Is it a White Scars player using RG tactics to try to hang on in a competitive meta?

How is this "fine"? Either try your hardest to make WS work or don't play WS. If you don't want to re-paint your whole army, fine, but don't try and pretend you're a "WS player" or are "playing WS" anymore.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@King_Martha
Wraithknights? Yeah they're kinda mediocre. Some of their guns got point adjustments though and they do benefit from most the Craftworld Attributes.

hairygrape
hairygrape

get excited about some models
buy a box
look over rules until your happy with a certain loadout
go to build but the kit doesnt support the models rules

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Spamalot
Based on what rumors are saying Nids will be at that level too. When everyone is the WAAC army than no one will be.

Techpill
Techpill

@Fuzzy_Logic
Why the fuck the Eldar have a PSYCHIC PLANE in the first place is what I wanna know.

That;'s not plane as in astral plane, that's plane as in airplane.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@Firespawn
Horus Heresy
Novamarine Chaplain
One of these things is not like the other

Firespawn
Firespawn

@Spamalot
I don't see it. CWE were starting from a pretty weak spot. They needed the buffs.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Techpill
Because it's a race full of psykers. And they have one of those psykers fly an airplane.

This isn't rocket surgery.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@cum2soon
It doesn't sound like Eldar are WAAC
You mean the army that makes it so every other powerful army literally can't hit them isn't WAAC? What are you smoking?

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

So why is there no Covenant of Undivided for renegades why must I make a commitment?

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Techpill

Its an aspect warrior - they're designed with pods to enhance their psychic powers.

WebTool
WebTool

@Supergrass
Flyers are BS5+

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Techpill
Elf souls are in rocks. If the Elf soul was psychic, the rock is psychic. Stick the psychic rock in a 15 foot tall mecha, get a psychic 15 foot tall mecha

stick the rock in a plane, get a psychic plane

imagine being a Warlock, dying, and then waking up to discover instead of being in mediation elf afterlife youre a FIGHTER JET

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@WebTool
Dakkajet isn't. Which is the one people take.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@happy_sad
If there's one thing GW should do in CA to drastically improve army composition, it's redraw the base CP and CP bonuses from detachments. At the very least, all of the HQ+3 non-troops should be +0.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@happy_sad
It's weird as fuck as a Nid player to now have more options for allying than some of the other races.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@RumChicken
youre a FIGHTER JET

Like a boss

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

Anyone ever use a Sicaran? Thinking about trying to fit one into my DG list, have some 500ish points to play with. I play mostly against the myriad flavors of Eldar if that makes a difference.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@Gigastrength
The problem I have is that they'll be broken even in casual games. You can make a casual army for SM/Guard that are actually fun to fight against. The leaks so far make it seem like that's not possible for Eldar without completely gimping yourself on purpose.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@VisualMaster
Wouldn't that lead to less diverse armies overall?

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@Supergrass
Honestly sick of everyone and their mum getting some sort of -1 to hit be it a trait, unit, or some sort of upgrade. I really love to run Loota Trukks but them hitting on 6s or even worse, not at all for most of the enemy is really just balls.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

ACCEPTING ELDAR CODICES: A TIMELINE
Follow these steps whenever a new Eldar codex is released. Repeat each edition, as needed.
Wah, unplayable crap
Specific builds within craftworlds are okay
These tanks are too strong!
Jetbikes/warlocks/Jetlocks are too strong!
Eldar are broken!

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@likme
How is this "fine"? Either try your hardest to make WS work or don't play WS. If you don't want to re-paint your whole army, fine, but don't try and pretend you're a "WS player" or are "playing WS" anymore.
Oh, you're one of those "muh faction loyalty" retards. How pitiful does your life have to be that you have to virtue signal about what <Wu Tang Clan> rules you choose to use?

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Firespawn

They actually weren't? The only thing they really suffered from was lack luster troops but Serpents with Wraiths was a solid place to play from. As were Fire Dragons and Dark Reapers - effectively they picked up a ton of buffs and got cheaper.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@RumChicken
Imagine being a line Guardsmen and taking a nearby shell, and then waking up to discover instead of being in Emperor blessed afterlife you're either a butter servitor, a service skull, or a goddamn guided missile.

We still do your schtick better Xenos scum

farquit
farquit

@TalkBomber
Because FW doesn't care about you. Same reason Renegades get fucked so hard in Codex: Chaos Space Marines.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@SniperGod
You mean the army that makes it so every other powerful army literally can't hit them isn't WAAC?
It's the same fucking bonus as RG, AL, and Stygies, who aren't exactly dominating.

The only ones that stack it are Rangers, who aren't good enough to spam as your entire army, and Flyers, who are nerfed by Boots on the Ground, and one psyker per turn can also use Conceal IF they pass the psychic test.

Disregard that they also have a 2CP stratagem which gives a -1 to hit for a phase to any Infantry or model with Fly

And two different Relics that give it to a Character

There is plenty of counterplay, you people acting like THE ENTIRE ARMY IS IMPOSSIBLE TO HIT are retarded, against most of the list it'll just be the usual -1 and that's only if you don't move up into range.

5mileys
5mileys

So how many editions now have Eldar been top tier?
2nd
3rd
5th
8th

takes2long
takes2long

@Flameblow
This isn't rocket surgery.
It's the next best thing bro, there's gotta be some neuroscience involved in there.

@RumChicken
Fuck, do Eldar take signups? Though it makes me wonder about the poor sod who has nothing better at hand and is interred into a wraithdildo or something

Inmate
Inmate

@Evilember
wait what

hairygrape
hairygrape

@5mileys

7th

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@Illusionz
No, it'll make it less advantageous to spam the powerful units without taking some tax troops.

Playboyize
Playboyize

@farquit
Jokes on them I kitbash all my models.

Methnerd
Methnerd

@Raving_Cute
Not him but you're not even referencing the Wu Tang Clan meme properly

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@cum2soon
Tau and DE are looking to be later and later codices
mfw thinking about what could be in store

Emberburn
Emberburn

@5mileys
Jesus. Fucking Veeky Forums.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@Need_TLC
It's amazing how from Monday to today the info we got changed the entire picture.

@Raving_Cute
He's got a point though. Why play WS if you, y'know, don't want to play WS?

WebTool
WebTool

@Poker_Star
So the exact same armies with maybe some token troops? I don't see how this leads to list diversity.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@hairygrape
Daemons were top in 7th, even before Magnus and Brimstone Horrors. As soon as Malefic Daemonology was printed, Daemons were the best faction in the game.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@5mileys
you got 4th and 5th confused.

4th continued the holofalcon rape, 5th they didn't get a book and were underpowered compared to leaf blower.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@kizzmybutt

I think they said the larger, true Titans all sucked too.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@PackManBrainlure
Don't expect the power curve to continue to rise, it will probably level out with Tyranids and then be more or less static, with the occasional shit book when the designers just don't give a shit.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@CouchChiller
Some armies need a lot more than points tweaks. Like Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors are both pretty fucking useless.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@cum2soon
and the early Codexes just got shafted because that always happens every edition.
Don't expect that to stop faggots from whining about marines getting their codex first all the time and being posterboys.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@LuckyDusty

Top tier
Only one army allowed

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@5mileys
Still can't presume about how they will compare in 8th. You lot just following a circle jerk bandwagon. Also forgot 7th which they were arguably THE best faction that edition.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@CodeBuns
As a non-Marine player I agree those guys are fags and I've never begrudged you guys getting the first book.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@Raving_Cute
Oh, you're one of those "muh faction loyalty" retards

Why would you buy a faction's models then paint that faction's colors if you're not going to play that faction?

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

Things that formations in 7th actually did right:
Character Sentinels that could Order other Sentinels

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

How do Daemon Princes look this edition.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@ZeroReborn
Who gives a shit. Essentially no-one plays with those. If FW makes any of them strong enough for competitive than they have fucked up and will get them banned by the ITC again.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

Wait, so do you need to put Nurgle Daemons in a seperate attachment from DG to retain faction traits while including them in a list? Or can you include them in the same formation yet just not benefit from DG traits?

Spamalot
Spamalot

@JunkTop
Yeah I'm leaning toward Eversor simply because everything else in my army sort of does the same job he does, except he explodes too. I thought about a Vindicare but they seem really lackluster. Same with Callidus, really.

Culexus though. That might be a chicken dinner. The always 6+ to hit can definitely come in handy, and he's by far the coolest looking Assassin model. Plus, he outright ignores armor saves. Only 4 attacks, though.

Tossup between the two, honestly.

girlDog
girlDog

@Raving_Cute
uses only the best rules available, even if they're not the right one for his faction
I'M NOT WAAC GUYS

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Illusionz
you could like the color scheme and fluff but despise the rules.

For example alor of the eldar chapter tactics are pants on head retarded for certain faction in regards to the fluff.

farquit
farquit

@happy_sad

The trouble is that GW are hamstrung by the excesses of 7th. If there was just a single Force Org Chart like there used to be back in 5th, 90% of the issues would be solved overnight. Couple that with the removal of only needing a common keyword to be taken together in an army and you'd deal with all the issues.

But because 6th and 7th brought in list building that essentially was anything goes, and the ally system, GW found themselves in an unwinnable situation come 8th. They had a pile of customers who had built armies under the old system that would be illegal if they were only allowed to use a basic FOC. Just think of Imperial Knights for starters. They could either allow those players to continue to use their armies as-is, which would doom any efforts to cut down the excesses, or they could tell them their armies were now illegal and they'd need some changes. They opted for the first choice, which is why we're here now.

TLDR: It's all Kirby's fault.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@PurpleCharger

Can the Iron Warriors take basilisks again?

Or is their trait still the fortress shenanigans?

I'm surprised they didn't get the ability to reduce or ignore cover on all their weapons or something.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@Firespawn
He's got a point though. Why play WS if you, y'know, don't want to play WS?
Because you like the paint-scheme and the lore behind them? A lot of these sub-faction bonuses are barely related to the fluff behind their sub-factions, and many can quite easily be seen as apt more than one sub-faction. White Scars are super fucking fast, so they're harder to hit at range (like Ravenwing were harder to hit in 7E via mega-jink).

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Raving_Cute
This is a word soup and I'm having a hard time trying to understand it and the point you're trying to make.

takes2long
takes2long

@Sir_Gallonhead
Servitors
having higher brain function and being aware of themselves and what they are

IS FUNNY JOKE. They cut up your meat and installed Windows Vista on you.

@takes2long
Though it makes me wonder about the poor sod who has nothing better at hand and is interred into a wraithdildo or something
jokes on you, that's my fetish

askme
askme

@Harmless_Venom
Good. I run mine around with duel malific talons and wings, jumping around the place, ripping up guys.

massdebater
massdebater

@Harmless_Venom
Good. Take three.

Inmate
Inmate

@PackManBrainlure
the AdMech treatment
Hey it's something, r-right

likme
likme

@Boy_vs_Girl
yes,yes

both your questions ask the same thing

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Evil_kitten
It's just a mere coincidence that all the super rabid IW and IF fans all of a sudden are quiet now right?

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Spamalot
Tons of people love spamming Psykers. If there was ever a time for the Culexus, it is now.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@CouchChiller
Oh you're right, I thought leafblower was 4th.

Evilember
Evilember

@happy_sad
@Evil_kitten
I "despise" my rules
basically because they're not the best ones
BUT I'M NOT A WAACFAG GUYS

Firespawn
Firespawn

@likme
For the second one I meant that just the daemons would not benefit but this reponse answers my question. Thanks, bummer though.

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Carnalpleasure
What's he do to psykers? I mean you still have to walk his bitch ass within 12" of them don't you?

WebTool
WebTool

@Boy_vs_Girl
Separate detachment or only summon them.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Inmate
assassin

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Harmless_Venom
honestly i dont know why but I think space marine fluff is gay.

@Harmless_Venom
they're good but have diminished returns after the first one.
Always take wings and axes are for hunting tanks and double claws is for blending people.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@BunnyJinx
You don't understand the power level difference at play. It was:
Daemons
Abrahamic God
Eldar, Space Marines
Everybody Else
Orks

Fucking nothing could touch full WAAC, min-maxed Daemons. It just wasn't super common because it's impossible to play in a timely manner and its impossible to actually transport all those models around. Magnus and Brimstones were just a victory lap.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

want chapter tactics for more """flavor"""
don't choose your chapter tactics because you don't """"like""" them
chooses the strongest CT instead, and make some bullshit about how they match better
I'M NOT A WAACFAG GUYS

CT were a mistake.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

Just curious to get /tg/'s opinion.

How many of you run an army because of its strength vs how many of you run it because of the lore/flavor?

eGremlin
eGremlin

@viagrandad
Their trait is to remove cover. The problem is their trait is extremely situational because the cover i
Mecha ic is pretty much nonexistent in this edition.

They can take Basilisks, but only if you bring a tratior guard detachment from Forge World.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@viagrandad
IF/IW trait is Ignore cover.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@ZeroReborn
I've played Tyranids since 2nd edition and never quit even through 3 fucking bullshit editions of Cruddace garbage.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@ZeroReborn
Flavor, lore, and aesthetics because my army has no strength.

Brownie points to whoever can guess what army I play.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@ZeroReborn
running an army because it's strong
I'M NOT A WAACFAG GUYS

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@ZeroReborn
Black Templar since 5th ed, Im fucking loving it.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@ZeroReborn
I've payed Thousand Sons since 5th edition. That should explain enough.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@ZeroReborn
I run mainly for flavor, and if something is broken I won't take it. (For example, I don't run tons of Conscripts in Guard because it's a douchebag move.)

The only time I WAAC it up is playing against the 2 people at my LGS who have no chill. (One brings stormsurges to low point games and the other abused the he out of bikes when they were broken.)

MPmaster
MPmaster

@Stupidasole
Inquisition.
@RavySnake
Changes his gun to Assault d6 if they're within 18", and causes any psychic tests to be at a -2. Plus he can target any Psyker even if it's not the closest model.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@ZeroReborn
Neither, I go full visual aesthetic.

And get annoyed when the things I like turn out to be unusable garbage or untouchable WAAC

farquit
farquit

@MPmaster
inquisition

Nah, but you're close. It's imperial flavored.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@girlDog
If the choice is between getting crushed or making a miniscule fluff concession in order to get a close game, I know which one I and most other players will take. How GW mechanically implements sub-factions has always been all over the place; it's asinine to pretend the current mechanical divisions are the holy writ of God and beyond question.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

What's wrong with being a waacfag
waac lives matter

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Lord_Tryzalot
Fucking Christ, a human advisor.

Times sure have changed.

Inmate
Inmate

@viagrandad
you will automatically lose if you play WS instead of RG

Okay WAACfag.

likme
likme

@ZeroReborn
I run it because of the models

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@cum2soon

Well, back in the day, the Blood Axes used to be hired by the Imperium as mercenaries so.

Techpill
Techpill

@cum2soon
They still have them, they just call them 'umie krumpvisorz now.

Methshot
Methshot

I wonder what the chances of Custodes/SoS getting a proper update are, or if GW just half-assed the Talons box and said "done".

It also seems like FW should be releasing the 40K rules for all of their stuff, but they're having an existential crisis.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@Evilember
i can only speak about the new eldar ones but

biel-tan is all about autarchs as HQ and taking aspect warriors. Their chapter tactic basically makes this redundant.

Iyanden is all about using ghost warriors due to not having alot of people left, but their chapter tactic makes them the spam living infantry army.

Ulthwe is all about psykers but their chapter tactic make them the multiwound faction

saim-haim becomes the melee faction, due to reroll charges

altiaoc is fine to fluff, oddly enough.

the rules are all over the place in terms of flavor. Not to mention its new so if you painted an army 10 years ago, its kinda a big pain to deal with it.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@viagrandad
I'm surprised they didn't get the ability to reduce or ignore cover on all their weapons or something.
You're in luck, the Iron Warriors legion trait is ignoring cover, plus re-rolls against buildings. It's both super fluffy AND powerful. Of course, in the spirit of their primarch, Iron Warriors posters have been extremely whiny about it.

RavySnake
RavySnake

runs across the table and chops your favorite model in half
nuthin' personal

WebTool
WebTool

@Crazy_Nice
mein neger

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@King_Martha
Have have that problem because I love chaos models of all factions and thus I play chaos-soup.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Methshot
Not for a few years at least.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@TreeEater
no Yme-loc for mechanized heavy eldar armored company

how dare you, GW

there are fewer playable Eldar factions than fucking ADMECH

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@Bidwell
Welcome to the Aedari mind-bullet hell

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@Inmate

a callidus assassin found out that a rebel governers weakness was his child.

so she disguised herself as a wetnurse, went into the kids room at night and swallowed him whole, then walked out presumably disguised as a pregnant woman.

this is canon.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@ZeroReborn

I've been running IG since the release of 3rd edition, and never even really considered starting a second army (excepts maybe some marines to mix in with them as support). I just love the way they look on the tabletop.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@BunnyJinx
anime only has hard difficulty bullet density

Lol elementary schoolers

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@WebTool
Not using the version with books in the background

Booteefool
Booteefool

@Methshot
It seems like FW is having an existential crisis

It's probably that and also them seeming to hate porting or adding things to 40k.
See the IA indexes, Fires of Cyraxus, and the Volkite kerfluffle.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@likme
Or maybe you like their archetype (bikes and shit) and paint style...but not the rules? It isn't like he would be using Khan with RG rules or shit.

I really fail to see anything wrong with this. Not like he's running guardsmen and saying "b-b-b-but they are eldar"

girlDog
girlDog

@Raving_Cute
That's one for the folder.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Ignoramus

There's also a story about an Eversor that was sent to a planet to assassinate some overlord, but by the time he got there the guy was dead and his descendants were running the show. So he killed every blood descendant of the guy with every weapon he could find, including a spoon.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Spamalot
What part of WS rules don't allow bikes?

takes2long
takes2long

@whereismyname
sometimes I like to win
I'M NOT A WAACFAG GUYS

Inmate
Inmate

@Booteefool
FW: Volkite will never appear in 40K, it's exclusively a 30K weapon type.
GW: That's cute.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@takes2long
sometimes I like to play with models that are not shit
I'M NOT A WAACFAG GUYS

hairygrape
hairygrape

@VisualMaster
@Evilember
@Inmate
You can just stop posting if you don't have a counter-argument. No need to fill the thread with shitposts.

@ZeroReborn
Started with CSM (mostly Tzeentch) for lore/flavor reasons. Started adding daemons in sixth (had a handful prior to that from when we could summon them in fourth) in order to compensate for my primary armies abysmal strength.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@Methshot
I assume you meant 97 down to 70

This was crazy needed. Shadow weavers in every other edition were 90 points for 3! the index tripped their cost!

Vypers, avengers, falcon all needed points drops badly. And scorps lost 50% of their attacks this edition so they needed to go down too.

Crimson hunters did NOT need to be cheaper however.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@takes2long
If you don't desire defeat, omae wa mou WAAC iru.

Techpill
Techpill

@Ignoramus
that is probably literally someone's fetish

TreeEater
TreeEater

@Inmate
Then cue FW throwing a bitch fit because 1 HQ model out of the entirety of the line was able to take a serpentia.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@Inmate
I don't know why they thought they could stop that from happening.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@kizzmybutt
I once beat my little cousin in a practice game while teaching him how to play
I'M NOT A WAACFAG GUYS

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@hairygrape
D-D-D-DON'T CALL ME WAAC
I PLAY CSM (TZEENTCH, THE WAACEST GOD) AND ADDED DAEMONS (TZEENTCH) DURING THE EDITION THEY WERE THE STRONGEST
I HAD TO DO IT BECAUSE MY ARMY WASN'T AS STRONG AS IT COULD POSSIBLY BE
B-B-BUT I'M NOT WAAC GUYS

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Techpill
I'm fapping to it right now and I'm not even memeing

StonedTime
StonedTime

@SomethingNew
At what point did I say they can't ride bikes. Are you retarded?

To clarify what I am saying: You like Whitescars cosmetically, their archetype, or whatever, but think the RG rules are nicer. So you just paint WS marines and use RG rules.

Its basically just RG painted another color. This is literally, every fanmade chapter ever. Take X rules, paint Y way.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

So I've been debating getting back into 40k recently after playing for a couple of years in college over a decade ago. I don't have any of my old models, and remember little to nothing of the rules. Is now a decent time to pick the game back up?

Furthermore are SoBs, Dark Eldar, and Orks any good? I heard Necrons had some kind of rework? Are they interesting now?

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Flameblow
I thought about winning a game once
I'M NOT A WAACFAG YOU GUYS

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Flameblow
I crowdsource the entire internet to try to improve my list instead of working it out alone
I'M NOT A WAACFAG GUYS

FastChef
FastChef

@SomethingNew
What part of RG rules don't allow bikes?

JunkTop
JunkTop

@Poker_Star
I assume you meant 97 down to 70
Not even dude. 77 to THIRTY. It's bonkers. D-cannon is 50pts.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@TalkBomber
What is the line between making an optimal army and being a WAACFAG?

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@StonedTime
You like Whitescars cosmetically, their archetype, or whatever, but think the RG rules are nicer.

And that's called being WAAC, dipshit.

This is literally, every fanmade chapter ever. Take X rules, paint Y way.

Then why the fuck didn't you do that instead of trying to pretend to be WS when you can't even commit to playing WS.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@CouchChiller
and remember little to nothing of the rules
This is a good thing because it's a completely new game and most of the rules mistakes people make are oldfags assuming things still work the way they used to.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@ZeroReborn
Inquisition/Guard since 2003. Always loved Inquisitors and their warbands, so I've taken one since then and always mixed it with a Guard force. I always fluff it as an Inquisitor with her entourage and an army she works closely with.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@CodeBuns
None. There is no difference. The moment you roll a dice with the intent to defeat your opponent, it is over. You are now a WAACfag, and you can never go back.

MPmaster
MPmaster

@CodeBuns
Trying to win already makes you a WAACfag. It's why driving enthusiasts can enjoy driving at the race track without trying to get 1st, because they actually care about driving and not winning.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Dreamworx
are all space marine fags this autistic?

Can't the guy play how he likes with his tiny plastic barbie dolls?

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@CouchChiller
@Raving_Cute
memorizing every single rule to try to get as much advantage as possible
I'M NOT A WAACFAG GUYS

takes2long
takes2long

@Lunatick
Literally am doing the same right now, but due to shittery in the Inquisition 'dex, I'm fluffing it around as the Inquisitor's private army. And also he called in some Grey Knights. Or Sisters. Depending on my mood.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Dreamworx
Okay. So by your logic:

This is WAAC:
Paint use RG rules (a marine faction) with spess mahreens painted as WS

This is not WAAC:

Paint my RG subchapter extremely similiar to WS.
Thank you, this makes total sense.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@ZeroReborn
I play Eldar, Nids and Sisters because I love them.

Eldar just happen to he butt-demolishers in sensible hands.

Inmate
Inmate

@eGremlin
I understand how the the rules work
I'M NOT A WAACFAG GUYS

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@TalkBomber
Have Tzeentch CSM ever been good?

Eldar were strongest in sixth (it was getting tabled by Eldar in sixth without inflicting a single casualty that lead me to start introducing more daemons); it was only once 7th redid the psychic phase and added summoning that daemons shot to the top.

Playboyize
Playboyize

@Lord_Tryzalot
This is why you use dice rolling apps. Pressing a button leaves much less time for the darkness of WAAC to develop in your heart compared to violent shaking of dice in your hands, while desiring your opponent's defeat.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@SomethingNew
I am @CouchChiller
and I have no idea what you're talking about.

Does showing interest in 40k make you a WAACfag these days?

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@CodeBuns
Are you trying to win when you play? Then WAACFAG. If you just made an optimal army then play for fun and pass over win at all cost methods to instead just have a more interesting match with the person across the board then you are not being a WAACFAG (though people will say you are a LAACFAG but fuck em, you know how to enjoy the hobby without losing your soul).

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@iluvmen
Curious, you use the old metal sisters still or homebrew? Was thinking of making my own but I'm not sure if I should wait for Daddy GW or not.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@MPmaster
So what if someone makes a soup army because he likes how a lot of the models in the faction and uses his fluff of his dudes to make it so. Example from my army I really enjoy rubric marines so I have some in my list.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@w8t4u
paints his models to get extra points on his tournament score
I'M NOT A WAACFAG GUYS

Evilember
Evilember

@CouchChiller
Great time to pick the game back up, 8th is a renaissance of sorts and the rules are much less bloated.

Necrons got turned from unfeeling machines into a fractured decentralized empire of machine warlords of varying sanity trying to conquer the galaxy more or less. You get a range of stuff from cold warlords to kooky collectors to robot Don Quixote.

Neither of those three have gotten codices (only indexes), but they're all rather decent. SoB are doing pretty well, but still have only old models. Deldar, pretty much same deal. Orkz suffer from being pretty monobuild, it's Boyz hordes or bust.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@CouchChiller
Pretty decent. The balance of the game is going to be volatile for a which as codexes for the new edition are being released. SoB, DE, and Orks are all pretty solid. Not top tier, but not bad wither. Necrons aren't particularly interesting. Their Lords just have individuality and personality now rather than everything being about the C'tan..

SniperGod
SniperGod

@Techpill
Hail Mork/Gork!

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Burnblaze
not going into every tournament with unpainted minis
Fucking WAAC cancer

StonedTime
StonedTime

@lostmypassword
Have Tzeentch CSM ever been good?

No. Closest they got is 3.5 and piggybacking the new Magnus.

TechHater
TechHater

@Raving_Cute
That's not really true. The notation has changed a bit, but the core of the game is pretty much that same as it's been since 3E.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@Deadlyinx
Sounds like something a WAACfag would ask.

FastChef
FastChef

@Deadlyinx
Showing an interest in winning does.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@PackManBrainlure
If you play games instead of forfeiting immediately and allowing your opponent to win, you're already WAAC, WAACfag.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@takes2long
@takes2long
Sounds awesome. I might try to fluff it as her personal army too, but I'm at a point where I don't know what lore I want to go with. I just kitbashed a bunch of different units that I think look cool and now I'm left with a weird looking army.

I don't use much of the Inquisition rules either since they are pretty barebones. I use her as a normal Psyker Inquisitor with Thunder Hammer and Plasma Pistol. Then sometimes I use a Terminator Inquisitor too as her mentor. Then I sometimes use a few Acolytes. Debating whether I should make 9 Acolytes to go with her in my Gatling Taurox Prime.

Supergrass
Supergrass

How does this list look against Iron Warriors?

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@Supergrass
asking for list advice with MT
against fucking IW

Let me guess, your next move will be to claim you're not a WAACfag.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@JunkTop
50points
Yeah that is what they have been for the last 3 editions.

Frankly I rarely ran them because 24 inches with their stats was easy to out range or to get close and annihilate.

Then again my main opponent was mech-guard and he just out ranged me all the time.

But they aren't terrible for sure.

MPmaster
MPmaster

@Burnblaze
I considered buying a model once
I'M NOT A WAACFAG GUYS

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Carnalpleasure
I picked up around 1k points metal sisters at a garage sale. I intend to collect more models eventually.

They look way better than the pictures and paint GW gave them. But they are basically single piece models so painting detail is a bitch

5mileys
5mileys

@Fried_Sushi
He just wooped my Cadian list earlier today and we decided to do a "They decided to blow the planet up game" figured suicide squad to kill the Daemon Prince that survived our game worked as an idea. But yeah we both are pretty WAAC

cum2soon
cum2soon

@whereismyname
Mine is Crusaders in Chimeras with priests and Psykers, a bunch of deep striking Scions, and either a squad of Paladins or a Handful of Sisters, usually Dominions and/or Seraphim. I usually take Celestine too, because fuck if this game isn't Herohammer nowadays.

I don't actually use my Inquisitor on the table aside from my converted GK Grandmaster as a stand in. I just say he's up in his Space Limo sipping expensive alcohol and being smug.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@MPmaster
literally paying to win

Disgusting.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@BinaryMan
Fuck.

@FastChef
So in all seriousness, I get that we're on Veeky Forums and just shiposting, but is this an actual prevelant attitude? Playing to win is seen as indistinguishable from Winning At Any Cost? I can lose and have fun (lord knows I lose a lot more than I win at most games), but when I play a game I will try to win, otherwise what's the point of the competition? Why not just design and play cooperative games instead at that point?

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Burnblaze
Nigga you ever been to a store? Literally none of the attitudes we have online exist IRL.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Burnblaze
No, it really isn't. Its a meme that takes a minority of all players and takes "I would like to not have a completely retarded army" as "suck my nuts, kiddo"

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Burnblaze
but when I play a game I will try to win, otherwise what's the point of the competition?

Wew WAAC as fuck

Why not just design and play cooperative games instead at that point?

That's literally what 40k was meant to be, from day one. Which is why until about 8 years ago with 5E, trying too hard to win was frowned upon by EVERYONE. They'd call you shit like beardy or cheesy just for taking multiple Leman Russes.

TechHater
TechHater

@Burnblaze
Veeky Forums is full of horse shit.

There is a difference in making a tourney list, a competitive list, a semi competitive list, and a funsie list, though. The differences are pretty obvious, since each army has a couple power combos that are easy as shit to exploit.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@Evilember
@Flameblow
Thanks, I'll need to chew that over.

If I were to dip my toes back in the water, what would be the best place to start? I did notice a few $90 starter sets on the GW website. Are those any good? Other than using proxies with a very patient stranger or borrowing someone's army, is there a cheap way to try before spending hundreds of dollars?

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@cum2soon
Very nice. Sounds like a fun list to fight and play. I too use Crusaders in a Chimera or on foot, Bullgryn in a Chimera or on foot, Scions, a bunch of infantry squads/sometimes Cosncripts, some tanks, Celestine too sometimes, Eversor, Rough Riders and Psykers.

Celestine is a great one to have for mobility. That's why I also like having the Inquisitor in Terminator armor. Deepstriking him down, using Terrify so the Eversor or Celestine can pop into combat all comfy, then the Scions and Rough Riders to harass or hit transports. I can see why you would leave the Inquisitor off the table. Both the Terminator one and my normal one are point sinks that rarely do much other than Terrify and occasionally Smite. Though every now and again they roll fire with their Thunder Hammers and do like 9-12 damage. It's amazing when it does happen, but it's far from consistent. Still, I will charge them into battle every game hoping for the glory.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@TechHater
making actual lists instead of just playing open play/unbound with your favorite models
I'M NOT A WAACFAG GUYS

whereismyname
whereismyname

@CouchChiller
They'd call you shit like beardy or cheesy just for taking multiple Leman Russes.
No they wouldn't you faggot, there was literally an army list designed around only taking tanks.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@Burnblaze
honestly the standard 40k player is autistic as fuck, you'd have to be for pushing toys across a table fore 3 hours at a time.

So you will get alot of people either REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE'ing about stupid shit or being a beta bitch and trying to form cliques to peer pressuring people into playing how they want to play.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@CouchChiller
8 years ago with 5E
Check out this new guy.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@whereismyname
That list wasn't even allowed because it was FW.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Ignoramus
I'M NOT A WAACFAG GUYS
Not using the power of imagination to play games with yourself without having to pay money to play/win

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@Raving_Cute
Forge World didn't even exist yet you fucking newfag, that was the original Chapter Approved

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Burnblaze
That's the thing playing the game itself is WAAC the only way to avoid it is to be one of those guys who only models.

MPmaster
MPmaster

@Garbage Can Lid
LITERALLY PAYING TO TRY AND WIN

Soft_member
Soft_member

@CodeBuns
I've got four detachment lists, Scions, Crusaders/Random Imperium/Sisters/Grey Knights and they're all around 600 points. I shuffle them around whenever I need a change. So I could do Scions/Sisters/Knights, or Sisters/Crusaders/Scions. Its fun.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Raving_Cute
He's talking about the leafblower list.

takes2long
takes2long

@PurpleCharger
The Dark Eldar "Start Collecting!" box is a good value money wise and a great start for DE. Two of those will get you on the right track. The Ork Start Collecting box is still solid value, but the units aren't quite as useful. I wouldn't recommend Sisters. They're still the same metal models, but even more expensive now.

Inmate
Inmate

@MPmaster
Right? Check out these losers.

Let's get out of here, babe.

likme
likme

@Lord_Tryzalot
hur dur I was referring to another all tank list

What, do you not know about ABG or something? A FW all tank list existed too, and guess what, was considered cheesy, mostly due to the special LR shells.

Methnerd
Methnerd

@Evil_kitten
leafblower wasn't hated and called cheesy

Well then he's retarded.

@Boy_vs_Girl

Good thing nobody on Veeky Forums actually plays :^)

Snarelure
Snarelure

@likme
That was editions later, christ you fucking children.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@CouchChiller
They'd call you shit like beardy or cheesy just for taking multiple Leman Russes.
You've put the image of a snarling bearded man with random Cheetos debris stuck in his beard as he is shunned from a store with his 2 Russes in my mind and I'm basically crying now. Thank you for this.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Snarelure
So? It still stands, so why are you getting so mad? Because you failed to prove anyone wrong? Then maybe you should save yourself some stress and just not post.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@TalkBomber
psh, nice post
nothin personnel

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@Raving_Cute
user, White Dwarf had an armored company list years ago. Which is the one most people played for quite awhile.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@StonedTime
Amazing, you managed to make a post without saying fuck.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@Nojokur
It feels positively delightful

Soft_member
Soft_member

>>55981501
tattoos
jesus, they let that around children?

girlDog
girlDog

@SniperGod
The Smiling Snotlings Pansykrumppin' division!

5mileys
5mileys

@Ignoramus
Is that like a specialty of Calidus assassins? To eat babies? Can someone give me a quick rundown on what each type of Assassin coven or whatever they're called specializes in?

takes2long
takes2long

@Nojokur
That wasn't even me, retard. Multiple people think your dumb ass is worth mocking, apparently.

Inmate
Inmate

@5mileys
Calidus are shapeshifters. Babyeating is more of a Ward specialty.

idontknow
idontknow

Want to run a paint scheme very similar to this on my ynnari wraith army, opinions?

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@5mileys
polymorphine doesnt just disguise you as the thing, it basically makes you that thing. So...she has a big tummy, of course.

hairygrape
hairygrape

>>55981501
NANI?!

Skullbone
Skullbone

@idontknow
Do it. Looking classy.

Emberburn
Emberburn

>>55981501
Please don't bring that here

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Nude_Bikergirl

Careful, if you browse Veeky Forums too much without venting the inevitable frustration you might explode and deal D6 mortal wounds within 6".

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@5mileys
callidus: infiltration, actual assassination
eversor: RIP AND TEAR!!!!
vindicare: snipin's a good job mate
culexus: psyker cockblocks
venenum: poison
vanus: information, more like an intelligence agency
the last 2 do not have models as they don't fit into combat properly, though vanus could be added as a stratagem for rerolling d3 victory point rolls

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@takes2long
one person agrees with me!
LOLOL FAG DUMBASS FUCKING CHRIST LOL FAG

You're fucking pathetic for mocking anonymous people over the internet to begin with.

Oh, and over some retarded seniority dick measuring contest, too. Having been around that long makes you well over 30+, so how huge of a disgusting manchild are you?

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@takes2long
Oh, so you CAN'T post without swearing.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@5mileys

callidus assassins don't usually eat people no, pretty sure this one was just a vorefag and/or had skipped breakfast.

the real talent of the callidus temple is to disguise themselves as other people, they're infiltration specialists.

Culexus assassins are blacksouls which are immune to warp powers and can turn invisible, they suck out peoples souls by touching them and can fire a mans soul out of their head cannons.

the eversor is the daemon spawn of a terminator, the koolaid man and the predator. it exists to break into a structure causing as much noise as possible and messily murder the target and everyone within a mile radius. if they fail to finish off their target they also explode.

the vindicare is basically a super sniper, its job is to assassinate targets from ridiculous distances with their exodus rifle, which is basically the 40k equivalent of an anti material rifle, it even comes with different ammunition that does different things.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@ZeroReborn
u disgust me
get off my anime imageboard
kid

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Raving_Cute
You are the kind of player who would be in a DND game playing a masculine male barbarian wearing +1 plate, then imediatley justify changing to +2 boob plate because of a power boost.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Lunatick
different ammunition that does different things

this'n's a long range round. Good for shootin things from far away.
that? headpopper. my personal choice for shooting folks from far away.
kiddie headpopper. fer kids. same as a normal one. funny how bullets work.

Methnerd
Methnerd

@w8t4u
Not what he's doing at all, but okay.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@BinaryMan
with the occasional ork book when the designers just don't give a shit.

Thats literally how I read that.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@Bidwell
well yeah
they have anti-vehicle rounds, penetrate armour to get to the target on the other side
they also have rounds to bypassing energy shielding
they probably have rounds designed to shatter on impact causing more internal damage rather than passing right through

RumChicken
RumChicken

Can Death Guard take Vindicators?

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@BinaryMan
Thats what the sisters codex will be for, user.

It will be dead last, and then herald 9th Ed.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@w8t4u
Magical armor in DnD reshapes and sizes itself to fit the wearer, and you'd best believe I'd rock some bitchin' nipple armor a la the sons of Baal.

Techpill
Techpill

@RumChicken
Can I take Commissar Yarrick in a Militarum Tempestus army?

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Inmate

Well I believe the answer is yes because they share the Chaos faction word but they gain any of the Nurgle benefits.

This is correct?

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Sharpcharm
If you take one, the whole detachment doesn't get their chapter tactic. But you can taake an allied CSM detachment and not lose your chapter tactic.

Also Vindies are shit this edition and are a downgrade from the plague crawler.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@CodeBuns

The plague crawler looks like total shit though.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@CodeBuns
What would it take to make Vindicators good? No -1 to Hit if moving?

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Spazyfool
Taking models based on their looks and not their rules
FUCKING WAA- Oh wait

5mileys
5mileys

@Spazyfool
then convert it
not that hard

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Booteefool
It lacks the fire power to match other in faction MBTs.

Double tap and price reduction would be a step in the right direction.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Techpill

Yes, he's a Commissar unit with no regiment. That means he can attach to any regiment, including MT. He cannot, however, use his own warlord trait, since without a <regiment> keyword of your own you cannot issue orders. GW can't into writing rules.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@w8t4u
Can we give the Flamestorm cannon on the Baal Predator Double tap also?

Firespawn
Firespawn

so Toughness 8 now, 151 points for 2 flamers, 2 shuricannons, and a ghostglaive, and we know the craftworld traits and psychic powers now.

Any tips on using a Wraithlord? I adore the absolute shit out of the model but it seems counter-intuitive when it's one of the only things in the army that cant deep strike or infiltrate or ride in a transport while being of mediocre speed.

How do I get one or two of these into the fight and watch it tear the living shit out of my foes

RavySnake
RavySnake

@w8t4u
It's already at 135. I could see doubling the RoF (probably with a slight price bump) or cutting the price a bit, but both?

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Firespawn
Might be worth shelling out for some heavier guns and using it as a backfield securer. I like to take a couple Helbrutes and leave one or two with CCW's.

JunkTop
JunkTop

@Firespawn
You dont, they're basically a firing platform. But if you are dead set on melee lords, you should spam them and saturate the field/

@RavySnake
I'd take it down to 110, most tanks are pretty gimped this edition.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@StonedTime
Feels a waste to take a Ghostglaive and use it as a more expensive War Walker, when I know it can pull silly shit like bump it's Attacks up to 8 once per match, and get full rerolls to hit in melee while wielding a Bright Lance shaped like a sword

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@StrangeWizard
I specifically said armor that retained boob plate. Not that you would care.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@w8t4u
@RavySnake

Another way to go might be allowing marine tanks to ignore the -1 to hit when moving their tanks. Astartes armor is smaller, lighter, and has generally lower-caliber guns than Guard armor, but is faster and more accurate with better gunners and targeting technology.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Spazyfool

Take a vindicator model and convert it somewhat, call it a plaguecrawler.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

NEW THREAD, MIGRATE!!!

/tg/thread/55981953#p55981953
/tg/thread/55981953#p55981953
/tg/thread/55981953#p55981953

Lunatick
Lunatick

do we know what the second half of Quicken/Restrain does? The codex review goes off on a tangent during Quicken and forgets to say anything about Restrain

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Bidwell
Because the following don't exist and are made up:
HE rounds
Incendiary rounds
Hollow points
Lead points
Titanium rounds
Shredder rounds

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

Squats

Snarelure
Snarelure

@hairygrape
FUCKING
TROUPES
HOW AM I DO CLOWN CAR DRIVE BY IF 6 KNIFE EARS ARE SHARING 2 FUSION PISTOLS

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@CouchChiller
9/10 bait

WebTool
WebTool

Any reliable info on what codexes are coming out after Nids?

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