Destiny Lore Thread 2

Solar a best, Arc a Shit, Void is meh edition
last thread
>56330472
I got me a question for you, with that sea monster on Titan in the water, the one you can see its back in the waves and the CPU room during that one story mission, what do you think we'll be doing against that thing if the story leads us there?

>he appreciate the all consuming cosmic power that the Void encapsulates

the only thing you have right is that arc is the least cool of the three

from what i understand, these are all forms of different lights
Solar light comes from stars
Arc Light comes from Electromagnetic storms
Void light is nebulas and gas clouds

If MyNameisByf is right, it's a giant worm and therefore we're gonna go kill it.

Only the Hive present a serious threat to Guardians, the Fallen likely know the ghosts are their weakness but don't have a reliable means of targeting them. The Cabal aren't even sure what is up with the ghosts but at least know they are involved with the process somehow. There is an intercepted comms from the Cabal where they are debating how to keep a guardian dead since even heavy artillery or disintegrating bodies isn't enough to stop them. The Hive though, they can target the light directly... at least when their upper management gets involved. Oddly enough the Vex are probably the worst when dealing with guardians. For masters of all time and space they get really messed up trying to figure out the cause and effect of space magic.

just watched the video on that, you think it could be Oryx's?

that's because Vex are pure logic and reason, space magic is beyond reasoning and logic. its anathema to them, that's why they call us "those that wield which we cannot simulate"

Of course not a threat to Guardians isn't the same thing as not a threat to humanity.

You've got LITERALLY backwards for Warlocks.
Arc >= Void >>> Solar

>with that sea monster on Titan in the water, the one you can see its back in the waves and the CPU room during that one story mission
Those are two different sea monsters. One is just a random sea dragon that may be related to The Nine and then the hairy turd looking thing in the CPU room is most likely Oryx's worm.

>Only the Hive present a serious threat to Guardians
And yet they're the ones who have done the least damage. Fallen nearly razed the City and claimed the Traveler in the Battle of Six Fronts, Vex could simply delete us from reality if their experiments in the Vault of Glass were completed, and Cabal nearly drove Guardians extinct and turned the rest of humanity into worse off than the Fallen.

All Have have done is gnaw on some guardians and take our Moon.

Really? Despite basically every video on it explaining in bullet point how there is no way it should be his worm? Like, it was turned to stone, fell *into* Saturn, not away from it, pieces that were left behind were used to make a sword and it's soul was used to power a rifle? All of which leaves very little left to be alive and well and on a planet is the opposite direction of where it's remains were last falling?

I think Myelin Games does a good vidoe pushing the theory that Savathun is using titan to try breeding new Hive morphs and worm types, that seems more likely.

Also, there seems to be two things in the seas of Titan. From the surface you can see coils in the waves more reminiscent of a classic sea serpent and on the golden age CPU quest you see the distinctly different shadow of a giant Hive worm. But yes, someday it will be killed by us because that's the difference between the dark and the Light; the dark demands one kills to prove strength while with those with the light just kill because they can... and maybe there'll be loot involved. But mostly because they can.

Except Guardian magic is shown to operate in a very logical and predictable manner.
The asshole with the flaming revolver will shoot bullets out of his flaming revolver, which might be a little more magically accurate, their trajectories more unpredictrable, but they are still bullets. That other asshole with the space gown has been known to shoot out disintegrating void orbs now and then, watch out for those.
Every time we kill one of the two the little floating geometrical shape does its lightshow and they are back up. I wonder what happens if we shoot it first?

I mean, maybe we aren't shown some forms of Guardian magic that go beyond what PCs bring to the field, but it's strange no NPC mentions them except the occasional references to oracular visions and Thanatonauts. No one ever mentioned Guardian magical rituals, for example, or real reality bending shit. The Traveler can do it, but not Guardians.

That's why I made the post about threat to Guardians vs threat to humanity. The guardians could easily survive things that would wipe out the species. Cayde makes a point about how without the city though guardians would be stuck using pea shooters and sticks while sleeping in the mud. Obviously they want to guard humanity, greater good and all of that, but as an actual threat to their existence, the Hive are the greatest threat of true death for a guardian.

Most guardians are so stuck in the moment, just trying to get to the next day, that they don't take the time to experiment with what they can do. There is a throw away line about two titans who combine their add supers to blow up an entire fallen raiding party in one hit. I more powers up her melee ability to knock out a cabal gunship, Anna Bray created permanent fountains of light whenever she shot her golden gun. Didn't I more end up creating the arc subclass because she didn't fit with the solar or void users? Guardians seem to be able to actually wield their light however they believe they can, hence Kabr actually making his light into a physical shield dohicky. If they had a period to relax and experiment they could probably do some even crazier shot. As far as the Vex modelling that, it's basically add in unknown variables randomly to your simulation which isn't a finite number to work through, "account for unaccounted possibilities in reality." You know, right after they reticulant the splines.

Fair points, I still think the Vex could get to shooting the fucking Ghosts.

>Savathun is using titan to try breeding new Hive morphs
This is already explicitly true, as your ghost will say when scanning the runic barnacle things. Not to mention those egg sacs are either new or have been more effectively hidden away before Titan.

And while it might not be Oryx's worm, it has to be the worm of something of at least Oryx tier strength to be that size. The only thing I can think of is of it's not one of the Hive Gods, then it could be a twisted experiment where Savathun is making a brand new Hive God tier abomination by feeding all the tribute from all the lightless Guardians slaughtered on Titan to a single worm.

I wonder if Savathun can exist physically separated from her worm? Or has taken the form of her worm in an attempt to grow into an amhamkara?

Just because the Vex can't simulate our paracuals nature doesn't mean they can't hurt/affect us as evident by the fact that Asher Mir is dying. he's being turned into a Vex construct, he bleeds radiolaria and his ghost has become a full Vex construct and fights the voices in her head telling her to come home.

I thought they represented fundamental forces: Arc is Electromagnetism, Solar is the Nuclear Force, Void is Gravity or Dark Energy.

why are you here? keep your shit on /v/

Because the setting is well suited to PnP. Guardians kill Gatekeepers.

That in itself may be a huge what the fuck to the Vex. They seem kind of easily fooled into believing a thing is a vex, like it's just a yes/no recognition and there is no middle ground. I can't decide if they are actually way dumber than they first appear because of their lack of imagination or if it's all a ruse since they aren't actually machines at all. At least, that's how I understand them, they are tiny grains of sand like creatures suspended in the raduolaria that build brassy mechs to get shit done with.

Don't be like that. 1) the setting would make for a great table top. 2) would you rather see these precious electrons used for a quest thread or Stat Me! Thread?

Kind of but maybe not? Light itself doesn't exactly bind to the rules of our physical, causal universe. So those fundamental forces provide us with the secrets to understanding Solar, Arc, and Void.

>The universe is defined by fundamental forces. Energy is carried by quanta, tiny messengers of change. In the understanding of these messengers lies the secret of Solar Light.
>. . . fundamental forces. Complex matter is bound together by deep forces - and in the study of this binding lies the secret of Arc Light.
>. . . fundamental forces. Beneath the world of light and matter lies the vacuum, and the vast dark secrets that it contains. In the understanding of this vacuum lies the secret of Void Light.

I think it is more complex in regard to how it considers if something is or is not Vex. The cases where something poses as Vex there is involvement of spoofing their identity.

On a similar note, their singular mindedness meshed with being of different minds leads to some really complex considerations. Especially since they exist in an acausal form. One things current acceptance by the Vex may relate to an assimilation that has yet to fully occur.

I got it the wrong way around, but I still think these quotes are meant to represent forces of physics.

"Energy is carried by quanta, tiny messengers of change" = Radiation

"Complex matter is bound together by deep forces" = Weak/strong nuclear forces bind electrons and atomic nucleii

"Beneath the world of light and matter lies the vacuum" = Dark energy is invisible but appears to compose a great deal of our universe

I think of "Light" as hyper-nanotech that enables Guardians to wield these forces. "The secret of Solar Light" essentially means understanding how to use your Light aka your nanobots to manipulate Solar energy.

I suppose that I just consider that too flat an interpretation of Light. A slice of mystery and esotericism is, to me, very important to the setting. It actually leads to more inexplicable issues with the universe than if you just accept it as being something that functions outside of our natural reason.

And for the most part, the game and lore supports that exterior interpretation. So in that same regard I think that those explanation of types of Light are limited in both scope and understanding, because we are trying to fit the fractal peg in a circular hole.

i am not sure that would explain Ghaul being able to exist as a creature of pure light for the few moments before the Traveller blew him the fuck up in a massive show of force that within a few seconds was able to travel beyond the galaxy. or how a ghost is able to create a new body for its guardian with not just full memories intact but often with new insights or knowledge gained by being dead and that body is just spontaneously there. in fact, the paracasual nature of the light seems to be creating new matter/energy whole cloth rather than drawing in or turning one into another. all of which speaks to something more than basic natural forces. there is definitely some weird space magic shit going on.

...

bah, as if SIVA could ever be as awesome as ,y crazy ass space belief magic powers.

Nanomachines are a crutch. Destiny is beyond Nanomachines. We're talking smartmatter. Materials themselves programmable beyond your wildest understandings. SIVA mites couldn't save the House of Devils, and other than a neat oddity of the Golden Age run rampant in a red-goo horror story so long as a Guardian has their Ghost, I'd take Space Magic; Working As Intended any day.

I have a theory that the Vex didn't make any of the foliage on Nessus, and that all those trees and shit are just SIVA terraforming the place after escaping the Exodus Black.

There's a dialogue bit though that shows a Vex node getting extra firewalls from the plants around it. Unless maybe they're cooperating/absorbing each other.

Also
>311

I'm watching you...

Well there was a scannable in one of the Nessus lost sectors saying that the Vex were experimenting with matter replication...

why not both?

I think the interesting thing about the Vex is that their existence hinges on experimenting. I think that is how they are most interesting as an antagonistic force. And they don't like Light because it more-or-less exists out of the realm of them to catalog.

>full memories intact
Except it doesn't. Guardians have no knowledge of their previous life. The only reason Cause still writes to Ace is because he found a journal on him after he rezzed

Arc is the light of life, Solar is the light of stars, void is shadows cast by the light.

It boggles me that the Golden Age Guardians would miss a Wyrm.

please god let us ally with the Fallen soon

This, it's kinda nonsensical that they aren't already a PC race. If one house just allied with the tower and the guardians they could easily become the most powerful, but they don't because ???
If I recall correctly they aren't even influenced by the darkness like the other races.

They hate our guts because we "stole" the source of their Golden Age from them and now have spent countless decades murdering them en masse, to the point that the leadership of most Houses are dead at our hands.

Well, they can't be revived by ghosts, so they won't work as PCs.

I think that reference is not to reviving from their First Death, but the subsequent ones after they have become Risen.

There were no "Golden Age Guardians." Ghosts were not released from the Traveler until after the Cataclysm when Rasputin grounded it.

There are a lot of reasons in opposition to much of this. The only "friendly" Fallen is Variks. And he is only friendly so that Eliksni may continue. After the Whirlwind and the losses of the Houses and their crawl after their once gracious Machine God and the lives they lead feeding off their imitation Gods, they have become bitter. They are no longer the noble spiderfolk they once were. It would take a great change for the Fallen to ally with us. And with the rumors about The House of Dusk and the high chance of remnant Devil Splicers, well. It would be a time, and I doubt humanity would happily accept many of them under their banner.

Smart matter? You mean engrams and glimmer?

True, cayde doesn't seem to have any direct memories from before he was a guardian but he was worried about mindwipes/resets even before he became an exo and started making journals about it. One of his journal entries describes what it was like to be attacked by the darkness during the collapse so he both survived that and wrote it down... and I guess that means that he died of some other cause afterwords that resulted in him being rezzed into a guardian. Which is weird, you'd think the darkness would have actually killed him.

Exos fought the darkness before Guardians were ever a thing, yeah. They fought at least the Vex and might've even fought the closest thing to a physical manifestation of it. There's a grimoire card about an Exo who, inspired by the Thanatonauts, fires a positronic laser through his brain in an attempt to access his old memories and only gets glimpses of legions of Exos fighting and dying en masse in random hellscapes.

Of course, there's also the Deep Stone Crypt. The one "dream" all Exos have where they must kill everyone they've ever met in a maddened attempt to reach a tower.

They encountered the Darkness, found it beyond their comprehension but their reaction was not to fight it, they started to worship it as something they knew they could never grasp, decode and contain.
They don't do the same with the Light because, I guess, they are already influenced enough to see it as antagonistic to their god and htey don't really care for a manichean belief system.

>fires a positronic laser through his brain
Damn that's crazy. How'd he feel after? Did he die and get rezzed by his ghost?

Are there Exos that aren't guardians?

The card ends with him repeatedly shouting "Ghost, take me out! Take me out!"
I don't think Banshee is one and I know Lakshmi isn't. Lakshmi is especially interesting because she's only been wiped once and has lived longer than most Guardians

There's a broken Vex and an electrified wall in one of the Io lost sectors in a room off to the side, as well as a couple hiddenish rooms. No scannables, any chance this means anything or just a part of a quest that didn't make it to the game?

Part of a DLC mission maybe.

I noticed lots of small cubes hovering around that Lost Sector as well, you could shoot them and they fizzled out, but they didn't seem to do anything. I'm curious as to why that Vex is there and the electrified wall. Is it Malfunctioning? I figured the Vex were beyond electricity.

And ammunition blocks, and technically your weapons and armor and ships and sparrows etc. Basically anything you pick up while out in the world and likely almost all things that come from the City are manufactured through the use of programmable smart matter.

The ones who stopped to worship the Darkness found in the Black Garden are basically a Cult-Fragment of the greater Vex. While the Vex are technically of one minds they do not always agree with themselves.

However, it is possible that the only reason they engage Guardians is because they do not consider them sufficiently Vex not to engage, in the same manner they will fight Cabal, Fallen, and Taken. Oh, and fight Hive within the Ascendant Realm and then copy it to create the Vault of Glass, and likely other Vaults to experiment in unhindered.

Don't forget they have no problem beseeching Guardians for help when the Taken infected the Vault of Glass. They allowed Praedyth to exist only in the same exact time and space as the Taken Hydra in order to bait you into hunting it and then "ended" him to give you no reason to stick around

I don't really think they ended him to give you no reason to stick around. Remember the Vex function acausally and Praedyth's bones were centuries old as we found them. Consider this quote from Praedyth:
>So the Vex have predicted their own annihilation. When did they believe this would happen? Can the calculations of minds the size of planets be wrong?

Chances are Praedyth was dead long before the Vex showed us him, and the return of his bones was in ways a repayment for our help. They used him to speak to us but he spoke centuries before we heard it.

Consider that honestly the Vex do function more like Fae because their considerations are on an axis of reason and morality perpendicular and possibly never touching our own:
>I had a friend back at the Tower. She used to say, "Praedyth, there's always room in the mind for hope. It's the crack lets the Light in." The Vex have no hope. No imagination, no drive, no fear. All they have is the pattern. Everything must fit. If it can be made to fit, good. If it can't, it gets cut away.

>Or has taken the form of her worm in an attempt to grow into an amhamkara?
She *wpuld* try to do that, wouldn't she? After all, she's probably the most utterly insane amongst her siblings.

Many Exos, the majority, perhaps, fight an army of everyone they've ever known.

But there are a few who walk freely upon an empty landscape, empty of people and built on good, fertile soil, a warm breeze at their backs. It's unknown why these Exos are different, or why everyone else fights while others walk in peace. Possibly it has to do with the circumstances of their creation as Exos.

I wonder what Cayde-6 sees when he dreams of the tower.

Maybe the cubes are a code and you have to shoot them in the correct order to open a secret door?

Bungie has done this with the holographic rings in Halo 3. Do the cubes make different noises when they fizzle out, corresponding to notes of a specific song, or perhaps a mathematical equation?

It's also possible someone nearby was doing an Adventure, and you just happened to wander into the same world iteration.

Alternatively, were these cubes more reddish than the surrounding Vex architecture, like pic related? In which case, they're part of the faction rally event, and can be destroyed to earn rep for New Monarchy/FWC/ Dead Orbit

No, it's a room that is outside of the general playspace of the Lost Sector and no Adventure goes into it. They are also there regardless of events.

Nah, i've seen them as well. Tiny little things floating through the air. All over the place in the last room. I figured they were just set dressing, but like says, i wouldn't put it past Bungie incorporating them in some cryptic puzzle

So... in the collapse did we actually encounter the darkness itself or just another servant species similar to the Hive? Our records of previous conflicts seem to be limited to accounts from the Fallen and book of sorrows that makes it seem like it was just the Hive hunting the traveller for the last few billion years. You'd think the book of sorrows would have mentioned direct intervention from the thing their worm gods themselves actually serve... makes me wonder more about the black pyramids being Savathun's forces rather than an actual new species or the darkness incarnate.

Electricity, or arc power, messes with the vex, it does things to them like short them out and such.
Music also seem to be a good counter-measure against the vex if weaponized

Hey, you know that almighty, space bullshit ball that can create permanent gravity wells without altering a thing's mass and create tailored environments and that shit? Why did it arrange a God wave to purposefully genocide multiple sapient species when it could have literally lifted their habitats out of fundament and set them up in tailored paradises among the 52 moons it was already pimping up?

I think the music was more of a theatrical thing to highlight just how powerful Rasputin has become. We are not going macross with this setting.

We basically have almost no information about the collapse. The implication is that it was capital The Darkness, but between the Golden Age and the City Age we really don't know what brought humanity to its knees. But likely The Darkness, as none of the modern forces are able to reliably hit us that hard.

But that wasn't Rasputin on Io.

It is possible that it was too focused on the area it was already uplifting that it had a blindspot to the actual species on Fundament.

>it had a blindspot to the actual species on Fundament
I don't think so, from what I can tell the Syzygy was brought about periodically to specifically wipe out lifeforms on Fundament to prevent them from learning the secrets of the Deep

>++Who made you monsters? Who summoned the wave?—
>In counterargument, Auryx, we ask you this: what has the Leviathan done for your people?

It might not have been the traveler. The worms blame it at first but here the leviathan implies the worms/darkness did it, and they deflect instead of denying it.

Was there a card discussing anything to imply that the God-Wave was cyclical? I don't remember that being a thing. Simply that the syzygy of the moons happened to be occuring. Given how The Traveler basically idly wandered around Sol uplifting and terraforming before an implied escape from the system (thanks Rasputin) makes me feel like the Traveler is almost always pretty narrowly focused as it goes around.

But the Gift Mast feels like something entirely different from terraforming. I think the traveller tailored it's approach based on local life... except for those hive fucks, build the wave and fuck those overgrown shrimp.

Why do you think So? Rasputin was given the entire warsat network, system wide. There is a warsat launch facility and warming vault on Io, once powered up those became the property of Rasputin.

buy expansion pack number #5 like a good goy to find out

What if they ARE going full Macross with the Vex?

In Arecibo the interactions with the [Warmind] don't match up with Rasputin's MO. The Music and quotes aren't in Russian and there isn't any Ballet. And I have no doubt that Ghost would recognize it as the work of Rasputin.

Additionally, we assume that Rasputin has control over the entire Warsat network and that he is the only remaining Warmind. But, going off of older info, there were seven. Arecibo also has a reference to happenings on Mars, and the Mars Warsats reference Charlemagne, while the Io Vault is JYS-2, likely referencing Joyeuse. Which may-or-may-not be a third Warmind or a subroutine of Charlemagne.

If the Adventure fit Rasputin then I'd have no problem accepting that as being something he did.

When I read the Books of Sorrow my understanding of the Gift Mast was more that it was a monument that remained. It was not like terraforming, but the moons of Fundament were likely "terra"formed for the Harmony. But it obviously wasn't like a different Traveler because the Gift Mast didn't flee and the Harmony resorted to deals with Ahamkara to fight the Hive.

I don't really feel like we have a solid grasp of what the Gift Mast was or what its capabilities were.

>Autism personified defeated by an angry roboslav with cheeki breeki tunes
Seems legit

>except for those hive fucks, build the wave and fuck those overgrown shrimp.
See The worm gods made the Syzygy, the Traveler just failed to stop it or help the protohive.

Well, we already have deathsingers.

>they go full Yoko Taro
>the darkness boss fight is a six person rhythm game

I wish this didn't explain why we have so many different dance emotes :(

Is it just me or does failsafe look like a giant ghost?

Delicious apparently. At least according to the Hive. Something like a giant Belgian waffle suspended above a black hole...

And then "Surpise Niggas!" The Quria makes itself known and tries to jump Oryx

I wish I could do a lap through D2 just to check out the environments but damn, Bungie has turned into a bunch of assholes these days.

Is there anything new about The Nine?

Huh, that's an interesting way of seeing it. And yes, by "ending" him I meant they just shunted back into your relativistic past, but I think your interpretation has more merit.

In fact, thinking along your lines, them even allowing him to die in any sense would be payment (he's probably still rattling around the Vault in some fashion, though, or at least a form of him) since the Oracles had managed to delete everything about him from existence save a sniper rifle bearing his vengeance and some Warlock texts that somehow survived the Vex writing him out of existence (Kabr forgot he ever brought anyone other than himself into the Vault, after all), so by returning his bones to us the Vex were giving not a peace offering but allowing one of our fellow Guardians to finally die in peace. Hell, those few surviving texts that mentioned his name may have only done so because the Vex rewrote him into existence to entice your Guardian, either that or thanks to his involvement with FWC and their own time fuckery. Vex shenanigans can get real chicken/egg conundrum when you try to trace their effects.

There was an event or something, and some new flavor text that implied that the Nine are actually ghosts.

What? Source that shit, nigga. I hope you ain't talking about the new Trials because all that implies is that they're an agent that operates sidelong of both Light and Dark.

The lore tab for the Trials Sniper rifle seems to imply as such. It depicts someone talking to nine ghosts and them asking what happened to their Guardians and where they have been.

Yeah, it is one guardian talking to nine ghosts who have lost or given up on their guardians.

Well, in order to be unwritten from the fabric of the universe you must have at one point existed within it. I actually think that is in part the Paradox of the nominal mission. That no matter what the Vex attempt to remove to better seat themselves as universal law they are still bound by that universe. That is, unless they finally figure out how to harness actual paracausal forces.

It is actually really interesting to consider if the Ghosts are even Ghosts as we understand them. Obviously The Nine are well beyond our regular understanding of capability. The question becomes are they actually Ghosts, or is that simply a form they chose to present to be more easy to interact with?

Perhaps. For all we know when we do the Trials we don't really go anywhere even though we visit the Third Spire which is all kinds of crazy. It could be that the 9 are super psychics who can fuck our minds in ways we can't understand.

Are you suggesting that The Nine might have their own alternate Realms? /thinkingface

Maybe, when you're tripping dicks on whatever psychodelic you're using couldn't you say you went somewhere? Now imagine someone can do that to you on a whim?

I meant much more in the literal sense that Destiny currently has with the Hive Ascendant Realms/Throne Realms/Netherworld and the Vex Vault(s), not to mention the Calus' Shadow Realm. I would not suppose that what we know of The Nine now really covers most of what can be expected of them.

Getting a flawless run in the trials does get you some odd dialogue about how the nine are closer than you think unless they are further away, some crap like that. But it would be fitting if they are in their own version of an ascendant realm. Would also explain the giant emissary and star horse you see on a perfect run too...