Destiny Lore Thread 2

TreeEater
TreeEater

Solar a best, Arc a Shit, Void is meh edition
last thread
56330472
I got me a question for you, with that sea monster on Titan in the water, the one you can see its back in the waves and the CPU room during that one story mission, what do you think we'll be doing against that thing if the story leads us there?

All urls found in this thread:
http://db.destinytracker.com/d1/grimoire/allies/legends-mysteries/legend-saint-14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2avSq-82oI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHkLxzW4Sxw
eGremlin
eGremlin

@TreeEater
he appreciate the all consuming cosmic power that the Void encapsulates

the only thing you have right is that arc is the least cool of the three

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@eGremlin
from what i understand, these are all forms of different lights
Solar light comes from stars
Arc Light comes from Electromagnetic storms
Void light is nebulas and gas clouds

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@TreeEater
If MyNameisByf is right, it's a giant worm and therefore we're gonna go kill it.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

Only the Hive present a serious threat to Guardians, the Fallen likely know the ghosts are their weakness but don't have a reliable means of targeting them. The Cabal aren't even sure what is up with the ghosts but at least know they are involved with the process somehow. There is an intercepted comms from the Cabal where they are debating how to keep a guardian dead since even heavy artillery or disintegrating bodies isn't enough to stop them. The Hive though, they can target the light directly... at least when their upper management gets involved. Oddly enough the Vex are probably the worst when dealing with guardians. For masters of all time and space they get really messed up trying to figure out the cause and effect of space magic.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@VisualMaster
just watched the video on that, you think it could be Oryx's?

idontknow
idontknow

@CodeBuns
that's because Vex are pure logic and reason, space magic is beyond reasoning and logic. its anathema to them, that's why they call us "those that wield which we cannot simulate"

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@CodeBuns
Of course not a threat to Guardians isn't the same thing as not a threat to humanity.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@TreeEater
You've got LITERALLY backwards for Warlocks.
Arc >= Void >>> Solar

cum2soon
cum2soon

@TreeEater
with that sea monster on Titan in the water, the one you can see its back in the waves and the CPU room during that one story mission
Those are two different sea monsters. One is just a random sea dragon that may be related to The Nine and then the hairy turd looking thing in the CPU room is most likely Oryx's worm.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@CodeBuns
Only the Hive present a serious threat to Guardians
And yet they're the ones who have done the least damage. Fallen nearly razed the City and claimed the Traveler in the Battle of Six Fronts, Vex could simply delete us from reality if their experiments in the Vault of Glass were completed, and Cabal nearly drove Guardians extinct and turned the rest of humanity into worse off than the Fallen.

All Have have done is gnaw on some guardians and take our Moon.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@Nojokur
Really? Despite basically every video on it explaining in bullet point how there is no way it should be his worm? Like, it was turned to stone, fell *into* Saturn, not away from it, pieces that were left behind were used to make a sword and it's soul was used to power a rifle? All of which leaves very little left to be alive and well and on a planet is the opposite direction of where it's remains were last falling?

I think Myelin Games does a good vidoe pushing the theory that Savathun is using titan to try breeding new Hive morphs and worm types, that seems more likely.

Also, there seems to be two things in the seas of Titan. From the surface you can see coils in the waves more reminiscent of a classic sea serpent and on the golden age CPU quest you see the distinctly different shadow of a giant Hive worm. But yes, someday it will be killed by us because that's the difference between the dark and the Light; the dark demands one kills to prove strength while with those with the light just kill because they can... and maybe there'll be loot involved. But mostly because they can.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@idontknow
Except Guardian magic is shown to operate in a very logical and predictable manner.
The asshole with the flaming revolver will shoot bullets out of his flaming revolver, which might be a little more magically accurate, their trajectories more unpredictrable, but they are still bullets. That other asshole with the space gown has been known to shoot out disintegrating void orbs now and then, watch out for those.
Every time we kill one of the two the little floating geometrical shape does its lightshow and they are back up. I wonder what happens if we shoot it first?

I mean, maybe we aren't shown some forms of Guardian magic that go beyond what PCs bring to the field, but it's strange no NPC mentions them except the occasional references to oracular visions and Thanatonauts. No one ever mentioned Guardian magical rituals, for example, or real reality bending shit. The Traveler can do it, but not Guardians.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Dreamworx
That's why I made the post about threat to Guardians vs threat to humanity. The guardians could easily survive things that would wipe out the species. Cayde makes a point about how without the city though guardians would be stuck using pea shooters and sticks while sleeping in the mud. Obviously they want to guard humanity, greater good and all of that, but as an actual threat to their existence, the Hive are the greatest threat of true death for a guardian.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@Poker_Star
Most guardians are so stuck in the moment, just trying to get to the next day, that they don't take the time to experiment with what they can do. There is a throw away line about two titans who combine their add supers to blow up an entire fallen raiding party in one hit. I more powers up her melee ability to knock out a cabal gunship, Anna Bray created permanent fountains of light whenever she shot her golden gun. Didn't I more end up creating the arc subclass because she didn't fit with the solar or void users? Guardians seem to be able to actually wield their light however they believe they can, hence Kabr actually making his light into a physical shield dohicky. If they had a period to relax and experiment they could probably do some even crazier shot. As far as the Vex modelling that, it's basically add in unknown variables randomly to your simulation which isn't a finite number to work through, "account for unaccounted possibilities in reality." You know, right after they reticulant the splines.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Ignoramus
Fair points, I still think the Vex could get to shooting the fucking Ghosts.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Sir_Gallonhead
Savathun is using titan to try breeding new Hive morphs
This is already explicitly true, as your ghost will say when scanning the runic barnacle things. Not to mention those egg sacs are either new or have been more effectively hidden away before Titan.

And while it might not be Oryx's worm, it has to be the worm of something of at least Oryx tier strength to be that size. The only thing I can think of is of it's not one of the Hive Gods, then it could be a twisted experiment where Savathun is making a brand new Hive God tier abomination by feeding all the tribute from all the lightless Guardians slaughtered on Titan to a single worm.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Lunatick
I wonder if Savathun can exist physically separated from her worm? Or has taken the form of her worm in an attempt to grow into an amhamkara?

Bidwell
Bidwell

@StrangeWizard

Just because the Vex can't simulate our paracuals nature doesn't mean they can't hurt/affect us as evident by the fact that Asher Mir is dying. he's being turned into a Vex construct, he bleeds radiolaria and his ghost has become a full Vex construct and fights the voices in her head telling her to come home.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@Poker_Star

I thought they represented fundamental forces: Arc is Electromagnetism, Solar is the Nuclear Force, Void is Gravity or Dark Energy.

askme
askme

@TreeEater
why are you here? keep your shit on /v/

Lunatick
Lunatick

@askme
Because the setting is well suited to PnP. Guardians kill Gatekeepers.

askme
askme

@Bidwell
That in itself may be a huge what the fuck to the Vex. They seem kind of easily fooled into believing a thing is a vex, like it's just a yes/no recognition and there is no middle ground. I can't decide if they are actually way dumber than they first appear because of their lack of imagination or if it's all a ruse since they aren't actually machines at all. At least, that's how I understand them, they are tiny grains of sand like creatures suspended in the raduolaria that build brassy mechs to get shit done with.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@askme
Don't be like that. 1) the setting would make for a great table top. 2) would you rather see these precious electrons used for a quest thread or Stat Me! Thread?

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Deadlyinx
Kind of but maybe not? Light itself doesn't exactly bind to the rules of our physical, causal universe. So those fundamental forces provide us with the secrets to understanding Solar, Arc, and Void.

The universe is defined by fundamental forces. Energy is carried by quanta, tiny messengers of change. In the understanding of these messengers lies the secret of Solar Light.
. . . fundamental forces. Complex matter is bound together by deep forces - and in the study of this binding lies the secret of Arc Light.
. . . fundamental forces. Beneath the world of light and matter lies the vacuum, and the vast dark secrets that it contains. In the understanding of this vacuum lies the secret of Void Light.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@askme
I think it is more complex in regard to how it considers if something is or is not Vex. The cases where something poses as Vex there is involvement of spoofing their identity.

On a similar note, their singular mindedness meshed with being of different minds leads to some really complex considerations. Especially since they exist in an acausal form. One things current acceptance by the Vex may relate to an assimilation that has yet to fully occur.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Soft_member

I got it the wrong way around, but I still think these quotes are meant to represent forces of physics.

"Energy is carried by quanta, tiny messengers of change" = Radiation

"Complex matter is bound together by deep forces" = Weak/strong nuclear forces bind electrons and atomic nucleii

"Beneath the world of light and matter lies the vacuum" = Dark energy is invisible but appears to compose a great deal of our universe

I think of "Light" as hyper-nanotech that enables Guardians to wield these forces. "The secret of Solar Light" essentially means understanding how to use your Light aka your nanobots to manipulate Solar energy.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@StonedTime
I suppose that I just consider that too flat an interpretation of Light. A slice of mystery and esotericism is, to me, very important to the setting. It actually leads to more inexplicable issues with the universe than if you just accept it as being something that functions outside of our natural reason.

And for the most part, the game and lore supports that exterior interpretation. So in that same regard I think that those explanation of types of Light are limited in both scope and understanding, because we are trying to fit the fractal peg in a circular hole.

likme
likme

@StonedTime
i am not sure that would explain Ghaul being able to exist as a creature of pure light for the few moments before the Traveller blew him the fuck up in a massive show of force that within a few seconds was able to travel beyond the galaxy. or how a ghost is able to create a new body for its guardian with not just full memories intact but often with new insights or knowledge gained by being dead and that body is just spontaneously there. in fact, the paracasual nature of the light seems to be creating new matter/energy whole cloth rather than drawing in or turning one into another. all of which speaks to something more than basic natural forces. there is definitely some weird space magic shit going on.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@eGremlin
bah, as if SIVA could ever be as awesome as ,y crazy ass space belief magic powers.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@eGremlin
Nanomachines are a crutch. Destiny is beyond Nanomachines. We're talking smartmatter. Materials themselves programmable beyond your wildest understandings. SIVA mites couldn't save the House of Devils, and other than a neat oddity of the Golden Age run rampant in a red-goo horror story so long as a Guardian has their Ghost, I'd take Space Magic; Working As Intended any day.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

I have a theory that the Vex didn't make any of the foliage on Nessus, and that all those trees and shit are just SIVA terraforming the place after escaping the Exodus Black.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@PackManBrainlure
There's a dialogue bit though that shows a Vex node getting extra firewalls from the plants around it. Unless maybe they're cooperating/absorbing each other.

Also
311

I'm watching you...

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@LuckyDusty
Well there was a scannable in one of the Nessus lost sectors saying that the Vex were experimenting with matter replication...

RumChicken
RumChicken

@eGremlin
@Spazyfool
why not both?

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Burnblaze
I think the interesting thing about the Vex is that their existence hinges on experimenting. I think that is how they are most interesting as an antagonistic force. And they don't like Light because it more-or-less exists out of the realm of them to catalog.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@likme
full memories intact
Except it doesn't. Guardians have no knowledge of their previous life. The only reason Cause still writes to Ace is because he found a journal on him after he rezzed

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@Poker_Star

Arc is the light of life, Solar is the light of stars, void is shadows cast by the light.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@VisualMaster
It boggles me that the Golden Age Guardians would miss a Wyrm.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

please god let us ally with the Fallen soon

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@New_Cliche
This, it's kinda nonsensical that they aren't already a PC race. If one house just allied with the tower and the guardians they could easily become the most powerful, but they don't because ???
If I recall correctly they aren't even influenced by the darkness like the other races.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@BlogWobbles

They hate our guts because we "stole" the source of their Golden Age from them and now have spent countless decades murdering them en masse, to the point that the leadership of most Houses are dead at our hands.

farquit
farquit

@BlogWobbles
Well, they can't be revived by ghosts, so they won't work as PCs.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@RumChicken
I think that reference is not to reviving from their First Death, but the subsequent ones after they have become Risen.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@ZeroReborn
There were no "Golden Age Guardians." Ghosts were not released from the Traveler until after the Cataclysm when Rasputin grounded it.

@New_Cliche
@BlogWobbles
There are a lot of reasons in opposition to much of this. The only "friendly" Fallen is Variks. And he is only friendly so that Eliksni may continue. After the Whirlwind and the losses of the Houses and their crawl after their once gracious Machine God and the lives they lead feeding off their imitation Gods, they have become bitter. They are no longer the noble spiderfolk they once were. It would take a great change for the Fallen to ally with us. And with the rumors about The House of Dusk and the high chance of remnant Devil Splicers, well. It would be a time, and I doubt humanity would happily accept many of them under their banner.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@Stark_Naked
Smart matter? You mean engrams and glimmer?

5mileys
5mileys

@RumChicken
True, cayde doesn't seem to have any direct memories from before he was a guardian but he was worried about mindwipes/resets even before he became an exo and started making journals about it. One of his journal entries describes what it was like to be attacked by the darkness during the collapse so he both survived that and wrote it down... and I guess that means that he died of some other cause afterwords that resulted in him being rezzed into a guardian. Which is weird, you'd think the darkness would have actually killed him.

RavySnake
RavySnake

@5mileys
Exos fought the darkness before Guardians were ever a thing, yeah. They fought at least the Vex and might've even fought the closest thing to a physical manifestation of it. There's a grimoire card about an Exo who, inspired by the Thanatonauts, fires a positronic laser through his brain in an attempt to access his old memories and only gets glimpses of legions of Exos fighting and dying en masse in random hellscapes.

Of course, there's also the Deep Stone Crypt. The one "dream" all Exos have where they must kill everyone they've ever met in a maddened attempt to reach a tower.

5mileys
5mileys

@Evil_kitten
They encountered the Darkness, found it beyond their comprehension but their reaction was not to fight it, they started to worship it as something they knew they could never grasp, decode and contain.
They don't do the same with the Light because, I guess, they are already influenced enough to see it as antagonistic to their god and htey don't really care for a manichean belief system.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@RavySnake
fires a positronic laser through his brain
Damn that's crazy. How'd he feel after? Did he die and get rezzed by his ghost?

Playboyize
Playboyize

Are there Exos that aren't guardians?

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@Sharpcharm
The card ends with him repeatedly shouting "Ghost, take me out! Take me out!"
@Playboyize
I don't think Banshee is one and I know Lakshmi isn't. Lakshmi is especially interesting because she's only been wiped once and has lived longer than most Guardians

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

There's a broken Vex and an electrified wall in one of the Io lost sectors in a room off to the side, as well as a couple hiddenish rooms. No scannables, any chance this means anything or just a part of a quest that didn't make it to the game?

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Spazyfool
Part of a DLC mission maybe.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@Spazyfool
I noticed lots of small cubes hovering around that Lost Sector as well, you could shoot them and they fizzled out, but they didn't seem to do anything. I'm curious as to why that Vex is there and the electrified wall. Is it Malfunctioning? I figured the Vex were beyond electricity.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Nojokur
And ammunition blocks, and technically your weapons and armor and ships and sparrows etc. Basically anything you pick up while out in the world and likely almost all things that come from the City are manufactured through the use of programmable smart matter.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@5mileys
The ones who stopped to worship the Darkness found in the Black Garden are basically a Cult-Fragment of the greater Vex. While the Vex are technically of one minds they do not always agree with themselves.

However, it is possible that the only reason they engage Guardians is because they do not consider them sufficiently Vex not to engage, in the same manner they will fight Cabal, Fallen, and Taken. Oh, and fight Hive within the Ascendant Realm and then copy it to create the Vault of Glass, and likely other Vaults to experiment in unhindered.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Burnblaze
Don't forget they have no problem beseeching Guardians for help when the Taken infected the Vault of Glass. They allowed Praedyth to exist only in the same exact time and space as the Taken Hydra in order to bait you into hunting it and then "ended" him to give you no reason to stick around

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@kizzmybutt
I don't really think they ended him to give you no reason to stick around. Remember the Vex function acausally and Praedyth's bones were centuries old as we found them. Consider this quote from Praedyth:
So the Vex have predicted their own annihilation. When did they believe this would happen? Can the calculations of minds the size of planets be wrong?

Chances are Praedyth was dead long before the Vex showed us him, and the return of his bones was in ways a repayment for our help. They used him to speak to us but he spoke centuries before we heard it.

Consider that honestly the Vex do function more like Fae because their considerations are on an axis of reason and morality perpendicular and possibly never touching our own:
I had a friend back at the Tower. She used to say, "Praedyth, there's always room in the mind for hope. It's the crack lets the Light in." The Vex have no hope. No imagination, no drive, no fear. All they have is the pattern. Everything must fit. If it can be made to fit, good. If it can't, it gets cut away.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@Boy_vs_Girl
Or has taken the form of her worm in an attempt to grow into an amhamkara?
She *wpuld* try to do that, wouldn't she? After all, she's probably the most utterly insane amongst her siblings.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@RavySnake

Many Exos, the majority, perhaps, fight an army of everyone they've ever known.

But there are a few who walk freely upon an empty landscape, empty of people and built on good, fertile soil, a warm breeze at their backs. It's unknown why these Exos are different, or why everyone else fights while others walk in peace. Possibly it has to do with the circumstances of their creation as Exos.

I wonder what Cayde-6 sees when he dreams of the tower.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Fuzzy_Logic

Maybe the cubes are a code and you have to shoot them in the correct order to open a secret door?

Bungie has done this with the holographic rings in Halo 3. Do the cubes make different noises when they fizzle out, corresponding to notes of a specific song, or perhaps a mathematical equation?

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@Gigastrength
@Fuzzy_Logic
It's also possible someone nearby was doing an Adventure, and you just happened to wander into the same world iteration.

Alternatively, were these cubes more reddish than the surrounding Vex architecture, like pic related? In which case, they're part of the faction rally event, and can be destroyed to earn rep for New Monarchy/FWC/ Dead Orbit

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Raving_Cute
No, it's a room that is outside of the general playspace of the Lost Sector and no Adventure goes into it. They are also there regardless of events.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Raving_Cute
Nah, i've seen them as well. Tiny little things floating through the air. All over the place in the last room. I figured they were just set dressing, but like @Gigastrength
says, i wouldn't put it past Bungie incorporating them in some cryptic puzzle

idontknow
idontknow

So... in the collapse did we actually encounter the darkness itself or just another servant species similar to the Hive? Our records of previous conflicts seem to be limited to accounts from the Fallen and book of sorrows that makes it seem like it was just the Hive hunting the traveller for the last few billion years. You'd think the book of sorrows would have mentioned direct intervention from the thing their worm gods themselves actually serve... makes me wonder more about the black pyramids being Savathun's forces rather than an actual new species or the darkness incarnate.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@Fuzzy_Logic
Electricity, or arc power, messes with the vex, it does things to them like short them out and such.
Music also seem to be a good counter-measure against the vex if weaponized

Methnerd
Methnerd

Hey, you know that almighty, space bullshit ball that can create permanent gravity wells without altering a thing's mass and create tailored environments and that shit? Why did it arrange a God wave to purposefully genocide multiple sapient species when it could have literally lifted their habitats out of fundament and set them up in tailored paradises among the 52 moons it was already pimping up?

FastChef
FastChef

@Supergrass
I think the music was more of a theatrical thing to highlight just how powerful Rasputin has become. We are not going macross with this setting.

girlDog
girlDog

@idontknow
We basically have almost no information about the collapse. The implication is that it was capital The Darkness, but between the Golden Age and the City Age we really don't know what brought humanity to its knees. But likely The Darkness, as none of the modern forces are able to reliably hit us that hard.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@FastChef
But that wasn't Rasputin on Io.

@Methnerd
It is possible that it was too focused on the area it was already uplifting that it had a blindspot to the actual species on Fundament.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@GoogleCat
it had a blindspot to the actual species on Fundament
I don't think so, from what I can tell the Syzygy was brought about periodically to specifically wipe out lifeforms on Fundament to prevent them from learning the secrets of the Deep

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Methnerd
++Who made you monsters? Who summoned the wave?—
In counterargument, Auryx, we ask you this: what has the Leviathan done for your people?

It might not have been the traveler. The worms blame it at first but here the leviathan implies the worms/darkness did it, and they deflect instead of denying it.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@Dreamworx
Was there a card discussing anything to imply that the God-Wave was cyclical? I don't remember that being a thing. Simply that the syzygy of the moons happened to be occuring. Given how The Traveler basically idly wandered around Sol uplifting and terraforming before an implied escape from the system (thanks Rasputin) makes me feel like the Traveler is almost always pretty narrowly focused as it goes around.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@Fried_Sushi
But the Gift Mast feels like something entirely different from terraforming. I think the traveller tailored it's approach based on local life... except for those hive fucks, build the wave and fuck those overgrown shrimp.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@GoogleCat
Why do you think So? Rasputin was given the entire warsat network, system wide. There is a warsat launch facility and warming vault on Io, once powered up those became the property of Rasputin.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@TreeEater
buy expansion pack number #5 like a good goy to find out

Supergrass
Supergrass

@FastChef
What if they ARE going full Macross with the Vex?

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@hairygrape
In Arecibo the interactions with the [Warmind] don't match up with Rasputin's MO. The Music and quotes aren't in Russian and there isn't any Ballet. And I have no doubt that Ghost would recognize it as the work of Rasputin.

Additionally, we assume that Rasputin has control over the entire Warsat network and that he is the only remaining Warmind. But, going off of older info, there were seven. Arecibo also has a reference to happenings on Mars, and the Mars Warsats reference Charlemagne, while the Io Vault is JYS-2, likely referencing Joyeuse. Which may-or-may-not be a third Warmind or a subroutine of Charlemagne.

If the Adventure fit Rasputin then I'd have no problem accepting that as being something he did.

TechHater
TechHater

@Nojokur
When I read the Books of Sorrow my understanding of the Gift Mast was more that it was a monument that remained. It was not like terraforming, but the moons of Fundament were likely "terra"formed for the Harmony. But it obviously wasn't like a different Traveler because the Gift Mast didn't flee and the Harmony resorted to deals with Ahamkara to fight the Hive.

I don't really feel like we have a solid grasp of what the Gift Mast was or what its capabilities were.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Supergrass
Autism personified defeated by an angry roboslav with cheeki breeki tunes
Seems legit

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@Nojokur
except for those hive fucks, build the wave and fuck those overgrown shrimp.
See @RavySnake
The worm gods made the Syzygy, the Traveler just failed to stop it or help the protohive.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@FastChef
@Supergrass
Well, we already have deathsingers.

they go full Yoko Taro
the darkness boss fight is a six person rhythm game

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Garbage Can Lid
I wish this didn't explain why we have so many different dance emotes :(

Methshot
Methshot

Is it just me or does failsafe look like a giant ghost?

King_Martha
King_Martha

@TechHater
Delicious apparently. At least according to the Hive. Something like a giant Belgian waffle suspended above a black hole...

Playboyize
Playboyize

@King_Martha

And then "Surpise Niggas!" The Quria makes itself known and tries to jump Oryx

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

I wish I could do a lap through D2 just to check out the environments but damn, Bungie has turned into a bunch of assholes these days.

Is there anything new about The Nine?

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@haveahappyday
Huh, that's an interesting way of seeing it. And yes, by "ending" him I meant they just shunted back into your relativistic past, but I think your interpretation has more merit.

In fact, thinking along your lines, them even allowing him to die in any sense would be payment (he's probably still rattling around the Vault in some fashion, though, or at least a form of him) since the Oracles had managed to delete everything about him from existence save a sniper rifle bearing his vengeance and some Warlock texts that somehow survived the Vex writing him out of existence (Kabr forgot he ever brought anyone other than himself into the Vault, after all), so by returning his bones to us the Vex were giving not a peace offering but allowing one of our fellow Guardians to finally die in peace. Hell, those few surviving texts that mentioned his name may have only done so because the Vex rewrote him into existence to entice your Guardian, either that or thanks to his involvement with FWC and their own time fuckery. Vex shenanigans can get real chicken/egg conundrum when you try to trace their effects.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@BunnyJinx
There was an event or something, and some new flavor text that implied that the Nine are actually ghosts.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@Sir_Gallonhead
What? Source that shit, nigga. I hope you ain't talking about the new Trials because all that implies is that they're an agent that operates sidelong of both Light and Dark.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Need_TLC

The lore tab for the Trials Sniper rifle seems to imply as such. It depicts someone talking to nine ghosts and them asking what happened to their Guardians and where they have been.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@Garbage Can Lid
Yeah, it is one guardian talking to nine ghosts who have lost or given up on their guardians.

JunkTop
JunkTop

@Deadlyinx
Well, in order to be unwritten from the fabric of the universe you must have at one point existed within it. I actually think that is in part the Paradox of the nominal mission. That no matter what the Vex attempt to remove to better seat themselves as universal law they are still bound by that universe. That is, unless they finally figure out how to harness actual paracausal forces.

@Garbage Can Lid
It is actually really interesting to consider if the Ghosts are even Ghosts as we understand them. Obviously The Nine are well beyond our regular understanding of capability. The question becomes are they actually Ghosts, or is that simply a form they chose to present to be more easy to interact with?

askme
askme

@JunkTop

Perhaps. For all we know when we do the Trials we don't really go anywhere even though we visit the Third Spire which is all kinds of crazy. It could be that the 9 are super psychics who can fuck our minds in ways we can't understand.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@askme
Are you suggesting that The Nine might have their own alternate Realms? /thinkingface

idontknow
idontknow

@TurtleCat

Maybe, when you're tripping dicks on whatever psychodelic you're using couldn't you say you went somewhere? Now imagine someone can do that to you on a whim?

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@idontknow
I meant much more in the literal sense that Destiny currently has with the Hive Ascendant Realms/Throne Realms/Netherworld and the Vex Vault(s), not to mention the Calus' Shadow Realm. I would not suppose that what we know of The Nine now really covers most of what can be expected of them.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@kizzmybutt
Getting a flawless run in the trials does get you some odd dialogue about how the nine are closer than you think unless they are further away, some crap like that. But it would be fitting if they are in their own version of an ascendant realm. Would also explain the giant emissary and star horse you see on a perfect run too...

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@kizzmybutt
That's also possible. It's heavily implied that the Vex Gate Network and the ascendent Realm may well either: A. Exist in the same plane of existence or B. Be one in the same place.

It's not an unlikely idea that some other group has carved out their own little place in some extra dimensional space.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@Garbage Can Lid
Keep in mind that the Vex/the Dark Heart they briefly worshipped spoke to a Guardian in the form of a dead ghost trapped in a rose in the Black Guardian. The Nine are, amongst other things, dragons found in the moons of Titan and Europa and humanity trapped in the Jovian Rim come the collapse

Snarelure
Snarelure

@TurtleCat

I think Crota was tricked into cutting into the Vex network. I think it's their gate network that runs through it, which would suggest that the Vex travel such distances instantaneously via their extra-dimensional gates. Crota could probably have cut into it from our dimension as well, but he was tricked into opening it to his ascended realm because that's a more serious threat and the more trollish thing to do.

likme
likme

Was the VoG fireteam just the named three, or were they a full six?

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@likme

Could be there were three others, but who were erased from existence. The evidence just points to three, though, as we have no hints of any others.

whereismyname
whereismyname

So who's going to be the new speaker, Cayde?

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@BinaryMan

What about Alemyr?

hairygrape
hairygrape

@whereismyname
I hope not. He has enough speaking roles as it is.

whereismyname
whereismyname

I'm thinking of Homebrewing a Starfinder campaign where some new Guardians help with a new offense to reclaim Earth after the events of 2.

Thoughts or ideas?

Booteefool
Booteefool

Take it to /v/

farquit
farquit

@whereismyname
Could work without much major revisions to the rule set... interested in what you come up with.

FastChef
FastChef

@farquit

Well, I'm mostly gonna ask my players try to keep to the established setting for their "classes" (its not hard to fit the classes into meeting one of the 3)

Right now I'm just trying to figure out the best way to make Handcannons be seperate from Sidearms.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@FastChef

I've been scoping out FFG's Genesys system for a framework. It's not out yet, but it looks like a promising system for a Destiny build.

It's just FFG's Star Wars but setting agnostic sci fi. It's driven more narratively, which I think would help build on Destiny's own mythic/mysterious feeling setting, rather than just the gameplay from the FPS.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@whereismyname
Failsafe

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@RumChicken
Only guardians that were dead before they were razed for the first time have no memory from before they were a guardian. The second owner of the last word still had his memories after he became a guardian with the ghost of the first owner.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@TreeEater
Rasputin grounded it
There is no evidence to validate that theory other than pointless conjecture.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Nude_Bikergirl

I was not aware FFG was coming out with a setting neutral system. I'll have to check this out. In a way I like a lot of the ideas from the starwars system so I wouldn't mind using something like that.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@iluvmen

Rifts might also work, if you're willing to brave Palladium Books, as it seems to have enough stuff to fill in most conceivable Destiny equipment and powers.

WebTool
WebTool

So Wei Ning had a lesbian lover, right? Meaning Guardians aren't necessarily celibate (and we haven't heard of any rules or anything like that anyway). This begs a few questions:

can guardians have children?
do they?

Then:

can children "inherit" the light? Can they be granted it after their parents die (see TLW)

JunkTop
JunkTop

Why get invested in a game you can beat and qualify for the (single) raid in literally four hours?

Nojokur
Nojokur

@WebTool

There's nothing to say Guardians are or have to be celibate and can't have lovers. That said, when you're functionally immortal who attached do you want to get to non-immortals?

And as for if children can inherent light the answer is no. only the Travler can bestow light on whomever it chooses.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@WebTool

Light looks like it's a property of an individual, rather than an inheritance. Otherwise it would mean that the dwindling number of Guardians is not that big a deal, rather than an irreplaceable loss. They'd also need a Ghost to get the full functionality.

@Nojokur

It's a good point that attachments like that probably don't happen often or at all. Guardians have to be battle-ready and are sent out to hunt to keep the city safe, which would make for a very absent parent. That and they're probably assuming a larger role on a cosmic scale as Guardians, and unconsciously or simply as a matter of form, they're probably mantling a role that leaves little room for families.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@Stark_Naked
It's a good point that attachments like that probably don't happen often or at all. Guardians have to be battle-ready and are sent out to hunt to keep the city safe, which would make for a very absent parent. That and they're probably assuming a larger role on a cosmic scale as Guardians, and unconsciously or simply as a matter of form, they're probably mantling a role that leaves little room for families.

That said, not all Guardians are beholden to this idea or feeling. They still have free will and the ability to choose to fight for humanity/travler or not. It was the Iron Lords who pretty much established most of the traditions and customs now associated with Guardians and nothing stops them from defecting other than peer pressure (and bullets maybe if you piss them off enough).

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Ignoramus

Also true. There's even Guardians who are pacifists, which might possibly be explored later.

As it stands, Humanity lives mostly within the Last City, and humans generally aren't safe or can't travel easily outside it, as they lack the equipment like Jumpships and Space Armor to survive out there, not to mention that most other planets and moons are controlled by aliens.

The could live outside the City, but again it's not safe for them outside because they don't come back from the dead. Having a weirdo faction inside City limits is generally difficult unless they can justify their place/get along with the others/provide a valuable service.

There's still nothing keeping Guardians from interacting with regular humans, but it would be more common for them to partner with other Guardians since they live and work alongside each other more often. Plus, they have mutual interests, life (and death) experiences, and can actually keep pace with each other.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Boy_vs_Girl
Ghost Fragment: The Traveler 3 says otherwise. Not definitive proof, but what else could have brought the Traveler low like that?

Illusionz
Illusionz

@Boy_vs_Girl
The traveler left every other time. What else could have kept it here? And why else would it be damaged and silenced?

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@TalkBomber

The Knife, it's referring to, seems to have inflicted the damage before it fled to Earth. It makes many references to fleeing, or being pushed, long before the events of the Fall.

Also the references to "Knife" are quite common to the Darkness, especially prominent for the Taken. Rasputin references Aurora Knives once as one of the weapons in its arsenal, but makes no mention of setting those off against the Traveller, only attempting in vain to use them to fend off the Darkness before it shut itself down.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Illusionz
This

@JunkTop

Also this

FastChef
FastChef

@JunkTop
That's like saying you shouldn't play Super Mario World because you can speedrun it in <10 mins.
Sure, you CAN complete it in that time, but if you want to take your time looking for scanables, exploring the world, and doing side missions, you'll get much more milage.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Nude_Bikergirl
Glad to see I'm not the only person who thought of this.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@TalkBomber
The whole thing with a "Knife" is something the Darkness constantly mentions, especially in regards to those who end up getting Taken. It's likely that not only is a "Knife" some philosophical concept that The Darkness uses to twist beings into its service, but it's also likely that it's some manner of weapon against the Light itself, that is used to "cut" it away and reduce it.

iluvmen
iluvmen

New Destiny lore thread
Fuck yes.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Bidwell

It was mentioned before when anons were scoping out systems to run Destiny in, and it got a little discussion in that regard in the Genesys thread a day or two ago.

So we've got both sides scoping out new territory or new setting fodder to play with. I think if someone could build a killer Destiny hack for Genesys, we might have a solid game on our hands. Could also see if FFG and Bungie might want to play out a licensing deal, and that'd give them a new outlet for lore (although Destiny as its own thing is probably what Bungie intends, so they can control the lore for their story).

Also, at least one user is working on a Destiny skirmish wargame, naturally one that uses d12s because they look like engrams.

girlDog
girlDog

@VisualMaster

I doubt Bungie would go into the TT side of things.

That said, if we have to build the game ourselves out of this system then on to more lore/setting discussion!

I wish they would explore more of the city especially when you see how fucking big it is. It seems like the city extends to a natural mountain range and the walls cover a significant portion of the open section.

That said, I can't help but wonder what the cultural make-up of the City is like. In the game it kind of has this eastern/middle eastern look to it but I imagine parts of the city having been built up over the last few centuries have little cultural fine points to them

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

So for a Destiny RPG, what sorts of options would you allow that aren't available in the game?
Dual wielding, scavenging weapons from enemies and not having your own loadout limited by some of the bizarre design choices of the games seem like a good start.
More depth and variety in the PCs Ghosts is another one that would be almost required for an RPG, I can barely stand one Nolan North or Dinkelbot I don't need multiple ones in the party.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@WebTool
Why would a Guardian interact with mortals? Other than Devrim and the faction leaders, they don't drop loot and if shooting Hive Worms is any measure, neither do kids.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@Lord_Tryzalot
The Knife is also the central conceit of Sword Logic, as per SL you are trying to carve yourself into reality's Final Shape

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@girlDog

From what we get in snippets of video, it's taken a few hundred years, but the City has evolved from a huddled group of skin and hide tents to a city full of industry and amenity.

There's numerous corporations that work out there, producing goods and providing services the run of human needs, plus whatever the unique needs are of Awoken and Exos. Also a number that build for the Vanguard, manufacturing weapons and armor for the Guardians. And quite a few are deep into Golden Age research, trying to uncover what was lost, or possibly inventing brand new things from what was left over, turning once peaceful research into weapons of war.

It's likely to contain districts, each depending on societal class and possibly place of origin and language, although this is still Humanity as touched by the Traveller, so it'd reach a more ideal form in this setting. That doesn't mean there aren't criminals or isn't criminal activity out there of course, it's not exactly a utopia, but few places ever can be perfect.

Evilember
Evilember

@Fried_Sushi

Nothing says they can't. How do you suppose Guardians get involved in the factions? Fenchurch regularly goes out to find shit and sends it to his niece to sell in the Eververse. Hell I would totally go to the bars in the city and fuck around with the normie humans.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Gigastrength

Not only that, especially post Red War where they arn't trying to keep humanity from leaving the city you have humans branching out into the world again.

I could see it as an option to play as humans in a Destiny TT game either during the Post Collapse, Warlord Age, or the City Age

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@lostmypassword

Ghost could be the GM's own character when stuff needs to be laid out, capable of little more than narrative and utility as the player sees fit.

It'd basically just be a floating toolkit companion, and players can interact with theirs if they want. Or do what that one Guardian did and make plans on how she can use resurrection to her advantage in an ambush. Otherwise it can be treated as if it's not there for every other purpose.

FastChef
FastChef

@lostmypassword
Meticulous crafting system using <insert exotic materials here> that you have roll based effects in 2-5 trees offering different buffs/effects.
Like an exotic weapon will have an ammo type, sight, mechanical augment, offer a bonus to exp and a light/dark based ability that fits wthe weapon. oh and 4 sided dice roll to determine what element.
1: solar
2: arc
3: void
4: roll twice again. Deals both types of damage. If 4 is selected again, roll once more. If the third roll is 4, you get all three damage types rotating every time you reload the gun.
also, the system is variable enough currently that you can let them design the weapon's look for added fun.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Evilember

The Vanguard would look down on Guardians fucking with the locals. Still, a number of them do just walk the City for some reason or another, maybe to buy goods, maybe just to take a good look at what they're fighting to protect and help center themselves after being confronted with all this alien bullshit. Maybe to sell or trade a few trinkets they've found on their adventures, provided they've cleared an inspection for contaminants and potentially hazardous effects.

Saint-14 walked through the City sometimes, and that's where we have the tale of him and the singer, his reasoning as to why he fights and asks for nothing in return. Guardians might have an opportunity for that and much more mundane encounters, or maybe they just want to grab some noodles at the noodle bar after a long mission. Possible that even Guardians head to city squares to issue public challenges to other Guardians for Crucible matches, and play up the theatrics for the crowd.

@GoogleCat

"One day the Last City will be known as the First City." - Twilight Garrison armor

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

I didn't watch the live stream for the Curse of Osiris stuff but have seen the prologe with Osiris and his Ghost. he chucks her into a Vex Portal after saying the Vex can see her Light.

Does this mean that the Vex are starting to get some inkling of an understanding about Light?

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@BlogWobbles

Possibly, or at least understanding it. They might be mapping the Guardians by observing their paracausal effects on the universe around them, like watching a bird by the shadow it casts or seeing tiny water skimmers by looking at the ripples they create when they move.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@haveahappyday
In Canon there are Risen who follow the the path of Dredgen Yor with a hope that they can follow his dark path without falling into its depths. Additional the followers of Osiris, including the Sunbreaker Titan Order acted purely external to the city.

Efrideet, who gave up her mantle as an Iron Lord is part of a pacifist community, exterior to the City. In that same regard Lord Saladin does not perpetually reside in the city but only visits.

That is before you touch on Frontier settlements (i.e., the Farm), the Concordat (Lysander keeps coming up in lore), the Reefborn Awoken, The Stranger and her associations, and any number of other non-city bastions of humanity. Honestly, Dead Orbit has the largest human fleet and as a faction they aren't composed entirely of Risen.

Really, we have only seen a narrow slice of the setting with how the cookie crumbles.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@Stupidasole
@Illusionz
@TalkBomber
@Boy_vs_Girl
Ghost Fragment: Rasputin 5
While we have no records of the actual event, it was literally his main goal once he entered MIDNIGHT EXIGENT.

Stand by for ABHORRENT IMPERATIVE:

Activate LOKI CROWN
Perform deniable authorization: full >caedometric and noetic release
Prevent [O] departure by any means available

If you want to say something else did it, w/e, but that was what Rasputin was doing.

@AwesomeTucker
Regarding 757 is dem art styles and dat core gameplay loop. Thankfully now you don't have to invest 40 hours a week to really feel like you are accomplishing stuff so I can hit up my backlog while still finding time for PnP

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@FastChef
Man there was this Kickstarter RPG called Purgortia that had some kickass weapon generation systems. The dev sadly deciding that using his 30k to actually finish the game was too much work and shystered everyone by running off to China, but man if I could find that beta PDF for the game I bet I could hack it into some prime Destiny material.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@New_Cliche

It'd be fun to play with, especially by expanding the roles of the factions. Dead Orbit could rope you into exploration missions in Jump Ships, mapping our sections of the Reef or strafing enemy territory for some pictures and intelligence. Also possibly flagging space-borne debris and junked ships for salvage and recovery, even landing on old space stations to have a look around.

Another aspect a TTRPG can help you explore is ship and Sparrow combat and movement. A chase across the Martian dunes or the dust seas of the Moon would be excellent, as would Jump Ship combat, chases, and exploration.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@Evilember
Nothing says they can't.
Guardians are driven by two things:
1. Loot
2. Finding funny new places to dance
And arguably jumping off of random high up cliffs just because they can. If it's not one of those two things then Guardians don't give a shit about it. Observe as your own podt proves me right
How do you suppose Guardians get involved in the factions?
They offer Guardians loot
Fenchurch regularly goes out to find shit and sends it to his niece to sell in the Eververse.
He finds rare loot and repackages it for resale to Guardians who want the loot without fighting for it
Hell I would totally go to the bars in the city and fuck around with the normie humans.
You'd dance in a funny new location.

Case and fucking point muh Woken or as I call them, space niggers

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@VisualMaster
naturally one that uses d12s because they look like engrams.
This brings such warm feelings to my heart.

Definitely looking at using FFG to set up for a PnP if I can ever find a willing group. I did some home brew systems to establish methods for ability recharging during combat on my own, though. The sort of thing where you have a decay and on an initiative pass if that decay hits 0 your ability is available to use that turn.

@lostmypassword
Only [Player Ghost] is Nolandroid. Curse of Osiris has our first interaction with a separate named Ghost. So I would include them more as familiar and avenues for a GM to provide insight the Risen would not themselves have.

My initial list of things for inclusion:
Modular Class Abilities - so you aren't set with a single subclass
Size-based loadouts, so that you won't be carrying 30 guns, but you aren't limited to 3 at any given moment
Enemy weapons can be picked up, but would require a separate skillset to use
Found gear is broken down and components are used for crafting to improve your existing gear - this is not necessarily a cheap process
Your jumpship is your home-away-from-home - you can store extra things there and use some sort of rest action to switch out your gear, like a mobile vault

Methnerd
Methnerd

@iluvmen
Maybe to sell or trade a few trinkets they've found on their adventures
There's also the Tower staff doing things like smuggling Wormspore into the City, so I imagine if anything concerning extra fucky like that - or even just simple crime - gets to be too much for normie law enforcement to handle, they just call in a fireteam (or Shaxx's warjacks) to settle things.

Which you could use for some kinda crime drama arc where a human gets himself infected with Wormspore and starts going Hive/Taken or a Fallen slipped through the cracks in the City wall and assumed control of a local thug gang, rocketing them into the big leagues. Or remove outside threats entirely and force your players to be non-lethal and try to pacify things.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Sir_Gallonhead
Modular Class Abilities - so you aren't set with a single subclass

This is the important bit I feel. You don't technicaly have "Subclasses" You could Fist of Havoc just as easily as you can Go Captain America.

Then again i would have it to where you could "focus" on a particular skillset so even though you have access to all the supers you were trained to use the particular special abilities you ahve to focus on the to exclusion to the others until you change that.

I would also add stuff to it that wouldn't work in game, like learning how to use your Arc energy to short out or charge machines or how to be a vampire with Void energy

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@New_Cliche
Sunbreaker Titan Order
They're dead, Jim

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@WebTool
Here's something I've wondered

Save for live-fire training, what do Guardians do in their downtime?

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@iluvmen
Prior to the Red War there were the Peacekeepers. A Titan Faction which literally protected the Last City in some regards more like a benevolent Police Force/Defenders of the Wall. So I have no doubt that Risen are simply a part of every day society, for the most part. Even if most of the wandering ones wouldn't be prone to do much outside of the tower.

Not all of them are good at fighting aliens

@BlogWobbles
@Raving_Cute
They know what it is, in the context of it existing. But they do not understand how to simulate it and it does not fit within The Pattern.

massdebater
massdebater

@Sir_Gallonhead
@TurtleCat
For the FFG system I think sticking with Subclasses would work better with the system, they already do a fairly good job of it with the SW RPG and they're even laid out similarly. Hell, they even have the equivalent of Supers built in with the Signature Abilities.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@massdebater

Once it drops we'll have a lot of work to do seeing what it has to offer. While I like a lot of the aspects of StarWars I feel a more narrative system truly fits Destiny but I'd be willing to settle

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@SniperWish
In the same regard with DO sending you out to explore and collect, NM would be prone to supply collection for redistribution and anything that can support their future isolationist ideals and FWC likely would want you to continue to hone your skills and find better weapons and anything to help fight the inevitable war. And those are just the core Factions of the Consensus. Suros or Omolon could have missions for you, much in the same way the Vanguard would have missions for you. There are a lot of stories one could tell.

And yeah, speeders across dunes or over glaciers, firing hand weapons at enemies in pursuit or light space engagements could be fun. Albeit I don't really think Guardian Jumpships are suited for any major combat.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@TurtleCat
@massdebater
I like the idea of signature abilities and in general having a class-like or class-light system. However, the purpose of Modular Class Abilities is allowing you to perhaps have a style of grenade in a element not regularly available, or the effects of one style of melee on a different one.

So, not that a Titan has 100% of all Titan abilities available to them, but instead has the ability to have a set of abilities selected out of all of the Titan abilities and possibly even more than exist in the Bungie games. You know, going beyond the things that exist for gameplay balance.

I would also add stuff to it that wouldn't work in game, like learning how to use your Arc energy to short out or charge machines or how to be a vampire with Void energy
Things like this fall into that same catgory. Imagine having a pulse grenade that deals void and sucks out health for your nearby fireteam members.

massdebater
massdebater

@Evil_kitten
A lot of them study stuff. A lot of them probably collect stuff or just wander. A great many of them in the context of in-game lore seem to be seeking their place in the world - a family of sorts - or trying to discover who they were before becoming Risen.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@StrangeWizard

Jumpships might skirmish with recon pickets and light fighters, but in a heavier engagement they are outgunned. They're really all for mobility, and it means the Solar System is your playground so long as you can move around it undetected.

@TurtleCat

I'd be tempted to throw in draining Super energy to help boost other abilities or do things they otherwise can't with their basic powers. Hunter wants to Blink to a high vantage point? Let them drain some Super energy for the jump. Want to use Arc to power up an old piece of tech? Use some Super energy and roll relevant tech and concentration skills so you don't cause a short. Trade utility for firepower.

But I like the idea of playing with the setting that way, albeit you'd have to reign it in a bit to keep them from just wizarding everything. One of the biggest issues with Destiny is that they give you such a neat setting to play in, and you have little in the way of interacting with it save for bullets.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@Booteefool
@Fried_Sushi

yeah, I agree, it would be easy to let them go wild with abilities and basically become DnD wizards. But then again could you use your Arc energy to power some Golden Age tech you barely understand? That's where your Ghost comes in I imagine or having the relevent skills. Someone earlier mentioned about having shared skills or whatever between the Guardian and ghost which makes sense. I don't believe the Ghost should do everything for you but it makes sense that it can do stuff like acting like an interface for you to do things with.

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Firespawn

Ghost could be considered a piece of equipment with a few basic abilities. Every Guardian gets one. If they want more abilities, they would have to acquire pieces of tech, cyphers, data, and artifacts that their Ghost can use. Some might be usable just once.

Turns your Ghost into "Plot Thingy" that lets the GM narrate to you directly and also is a basic toolkit that allows Guardians to fight without worrying about staying by the "Plot Door" to keep hacking it. Also means all Guardians have a few basic tools available to them, but if they want anything more, they have to work for it.

Want to build a Fallen translation matrix so Ghost can translate in real-time for you (so you can shout insults at them), well, you're going to have to team up with a exo-linguist and record the Fallen chattering amongst themselves, then study some samples of writing where it can be found (got a Fallen technical manual lying around?), and then possibly infiltrate one of their ships to grab some raw data to feed to our analysts.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@Booteefool
@Fried_Sushi
I like both these ideas. I'd offer some kind of unique modifier for the Guardians super of choice at a certain point too, like Ana Bray and her eternally burning Golden Gun nonsense.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Fried_Sushi
@Firespawn
@RavySnake
I would be super on board for the players' primary interaction point to still be bullets, grenades, and knuckles, from a mechanical perspective. And then allowing for the more nuanced aspects of play to more narrative than crunch.

Allowing for your standard array of skills for the players and then having our Ghost be our non-combat world interaction is a neat solution to that. So dealing with people to get info is all narrative, but opening locks or hacking into a Vex network is definitely outside of Guardian purview.

And in regard to using super energy to boost other abilities, I'd only do that for damage dealing abilities. Some sort of "Light" stat that provides your limitations on non-damage dealing actions, and then you can draw on your super to get bonuses to your damage dealing ones.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@RavySnake
Want to build a Fallen translation matrix so Ghost can translate in real-time for you (so you can shout insults at them), well, you're going to have to team up with a exo-linguist and record the Fallen chattering amongst themselves, then study some samples of writing where it can be found (got a Fallen technical manual lying around?), and then possibly infiltrate one of their ships to grab some raw data to feed to our analysts.

Yes, this is the sort of thing that needs to be translated in game

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Snarelure
Definitely. The customization of how a Guardian shapes their light over time should be the real growth point.

Though I do think that it gets mechanically complicated when you start bringing in the elemental types, as I think shielded enemies need to still be a thing. It is an interesting question, and maybe the solution is to allow a player to either specialize and invest all of their time in honing one subclass (not necessarily a raw power curve increase) or if they should be picking up a second and third subclass.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@StonedTime

Instead of recharges, there could be a Light stat that recharges per round, and abilities require you to dip into them to use abilities (plus, perhaps, a limit on how often they can be used consecutively).

I'm wondering how it would play with other narrative effects, where Light can be drained from an area and hinder resurrection. Possibly your have Power (fuel for abilities) and Light (narrative fuel). Now Guardians have a resource for quick power to spend, and also a resource that effects them narratively, although they could draw on this Light for extra Power and effects, but it'd be at a big detriment because it could make them more vulnerable and get them killed.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@w8t4u

You could buy into the reqs for one subclass, but at each advancement (set number of levels or something) you have the opportunity to spend some levelups advancing that class further, or investing into a different class at a penalty. Basically like a more restrained multi-classing system.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@Snarelure
That is actually a really interesting idea. It opens up scenarios like sacrificing yourself so you can go Super Saiyan for the greater good, etc.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@Evil_kitten
Hunters
Play hide and seek, gamble, spy on Warlocks to learn how to Blink, squirrel away exotics for the Fallen to claim, knit capes
Warlocks
Read floating books, study obscene relics, get corrupted and disfigured by forbidden knowledge, teach guns what it means to be hungry, fashion ahamkara bones into fashionable ensembles
Titans
Punch mountains, headbutt missiles, lift tanks, make shitty grenade launchers
All of the above
Sparrow racing

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@Need_TLC

Saint-14
using the last of his Light to smash the Fallen Kell's helmet

Kabr
using all of his Light to create the shield

Eris
dampening her Light by absorbing Hive essence or something

Dipping into Light could offer a powerful modifier, but it's a highly risky thing to do. Possibly, Guardians who do so lose their ability to self-resurrect until they get that back, or Light itself is resurrection fuel, and the more you lose or tamper with it, the more vulnerable you are because you have that many fewer Get-Out-of-Death-Free cards.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Lord_Tryzalot

Saint-14 didn't loose his light. He basically played dead (literally, a 15 foot tall Fallen was choking the shit out of him) and told his ghost to revive him when the Kell picked up up so he could brain him

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@TalkBomber

http://db.destinytracker.com/d1/grimoire/allies/legends-mysteries/legend-saint-14

Sounds more like he was in desperate straits, and used the last of his strength, or Light, whatever it means in the opening sentence, to bash the 'ell's fookin 'ead in.

Inmate
Inmate

@idontknow

Brah the Vex have plenty of magic, it's not like magic is some sort of Mystical, unknowable thing in Destiny. It's just another form of science, it has laws and rules and can be understood.

Also we have no idea what the Vex do and don't know. I mean they've nailed time travel and based on some of the Destiny 1 lore we've never actually seen a combat model Vex, the only things we've come up against at all are worker bees, no soldiers, no leaders, just the drones.

Methshot
Methshot

@Dreamworx
I would actually think that pushing to multi-classing is a better fit for Destiny as a setting. At whatever fork you have to make those choices, you can specialize and improve existing abilities further, at a greater cost, or diversify at a lower cost. Sticking with a "long-rest toggle" sort of action to go between subclasses allowing you to mix it up if you know one set of abilities is better suited to this or that faction or location.

It would also avoid the power creep of specialization many games suffer from when they penalize you for multiclassing.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Lord_Tryzalot
@Snarelure
Totally down with having a Paracausal effect pool. But I don't think I'd have it tied to any specific mechanic. It would be for the "here, hold my Ascendant Beer" moments. Though I would accept revives as a thing for it as that it totally the sort of thing that breaks normal processes. Make it so your Paracausal Pool refills overtime normally, but when you enter a Darkness Zone it stops refilling automatically and becomes a much more finite resource.

Let it be your ability to influence the luck of your play experience or what not. Let you reroll something you failed at or to amp your damage up for a possible finishing blow. I should find the text file I had that went over my thoughts for crunch of Destiny PnP.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Inmate
The only problem with that is that in the context of Space Magic; Working As Intended is /explicitly/ something that the Vex don't get. The Paracausal nature of The Light and The Darkness are both non-conducive to The Pattern, even within the acausal nature of the Vex.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@Boy_vs_Girl

And they can't simulate it, nor can they truly destroy it, so they either have to accept that the pattern needs to be changed, or they have to eliminate these variables from the universe. The Vault of Glass was their attempt to do so, but it was thwarted by the very thing they sought to eliminate.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@LuckyDusty
Given that they won't change The Pattern, their solution is to eliminate those variables. The VoG was an attempt to do so, not their only attempt.

Curse of Osiris stands poised to explore them in more depth. I am looking forward to it more for that than anything else. I don't imagine it is going to be a crazy departure from our existing understanding of them, though.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@PurpleCharger

I'm wondering if we'll see enemy species in a more sympathetic light throughout this game series. We have sympathetic moments throughout the grimoires, and even general understandings of their motivations and conclusions about the universe, but nothing that puts them in a really positive light. Well, save for a few moments where you spare a Fallen Captain, the Vex possibly giving Praedyth's bones back, or Cayde-6's story about fighting back-to-back with a Fallen against a ton of Hive.

Methnerd
Methnerd

@Poker_Star
I think in order of most to least likely to become more sympathetic/tone down the sheer cuntishness its probably

Cabal
They're just space Rome going through a period of warmongering leadership. Calus isn't a saint, but he's not a total asshole and seems interested in some kind of alliance.
Fallen
They do have the most cooperative moments so far, and now a chunk of them serve the prince, but man, there's an ocean of bad blood to get over.
Vex
Not much about them yet, but they like gardening and at least they're not the
Hive
They're just too far gone.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Poker_Star
I think we'll see instances of sympathetic individuals. Variks, for example. But I don't think we'll ever see Fallen Guardians, no matter how many people in the community want it. It doesn't fit the combination of HFY and reclamation that Destiny is built upon. I do think we'll see more friendly Fallen, but given they appear to be unified as the House of Dusk (short Devil Splicers, likely other splinter factions) and their general history... I just think it would take a lot to convincingly have them be an actual friendly faction. Calus just wants to use us, and Hive/Taken/Vex want to eat us. So, yeah.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Methnerd

I mean, the players are technically Hive Ascendant after stealing Crota's soul remnants, and probably a Hive God for killing Oryx, although you don't take up the mantle.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@VisualMaster

Forget Fallen Guardians, but Fallen as allies would be awesome.

C'mon four-armed buds, let's walk under the Great Machine together, there's room in this City for an embassy at least. You can get your own office in the Tower with a Traveller-side view, and start giving orders to Guardians instead of getting shot by them.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@SniperWish
You can get your own office in the Tower with a Traveller-side view, and start giving orders to Guardians instead of getting shot by them.

Look man, Six Fronts and Twilight Gap wasn't that long ago....

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Supergrass

And the Great Machine hangs there still. Shed the skins of what you once became and walk as exalted underneath it as you once were, or break against these Titan walls and be crushed by the Light's Champions.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@Harmless_Venom
We killed Oryx outside of Sword Logic, which is why we didn't take up his Mantle. Which was in part by his design.

@SniperWish
I wouldn't be surprised by a small group of House Judgement, but I don't think they would ever be accepted into The Tower, let alone The Last City. Just remember @Supergrass

I mean, literally, the Titan Crest (pic related) literally is illustrating the 4 Titan Orders defending The Last City from Eliskni at Six Fronts.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@BinaryMan
Oh, really? That's cool. Is there any lore behind the other class's crests?

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@Soft_member
Not that I am specifically aware of being public. Though I am sure that it exists. I main Titan. Not always the best at keeping Hunter and Warlock lore readily accessible in my brain.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Soft_member
@LuckyDusty

It's speculated that the new DLCs will focus on the specific classes (first being Warlocks the next with Hunters) so who knows, we may actually find out.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

Would you guys think kitbashing Imperial Guard, Eldar, and Space Marine parts would make good Hunters or Titans?

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Crazy_Nice

That's a pretty good image.

I'd say you should contact a shapeways designer to make your own, but if you have the skills, time, patience, and the pockets deep enough to get yourself all the bits, you could do something really cool with it.

Even if you don't get quite the intended result, I suppose you still have some neat characters to play with for Inq28 or other skirmish game.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Crazy_Nice
I'd rather scratch build this, but I guess I could try to find someone on shapeways.

Also, is there anything I should know about shapeways or any legal thing if I do this?

iluvmen
iluvmen

On a side note, if I end up doing a decent job kit bashing a Destiny themed mini, should I keep photos or notes handy to make into a tutorial?

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Soft_member

Cops aren't going to come break down your door, but artists might get C&D'd.

You can send some artists some messages to see if they're down for customizing their stuff for whatever scale/loadout you want. Scratch building is fun, though. Pick a look you want to go after and build towards that.

@iluvmen

If you want. A parts list is generally a good idea, but a tutorial is nice if anyone else wants to see the step-by-step.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@iluvmen
I’m not a minisfag but yes, because there’s always a need for DIY kitbashing tutorials

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Spazyfool
Well it CAN infect Ghosts, so...

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Evil_kitten
So how would I go about asking someone on shapeways?

5mileys
5mileys

@whereismyname
I want a sitcom about one of each as roommates.

idontknow
idontknow

@iluvmen
Funny thing, Sloane has fucking purity seals on her armor.

Playboyize
Playboyize

@BlogWobbles
It's probably also worth noting that symbol on the JYS-2 vault monitors isn't Rasputins. The little floaty diamonds have his symbol, though I'm inclined to blame reused assets like how some of the Exodus Black computers show the Chinese Moonbase logo instead of the Cosmodrome's.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@BlogWobbles
@Playboyize
Isn't the lore that Rasputin has access to all the dead Warminds and all their weaponry and systems after we hooked him back into the system in D1?

massdebater
massdebater

@Soft_member

Through the messaging system. Send the designer a message asking if they do customization on their models.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@idontknow
Everyone knows that, first thing I thought about Sloane was that her armor had to be a nod to GEEDUBS

Bidwell
Bidwell

Genesys launches on the 30th.
Soon™ I'll be running a hopefully not shit Destiny campaign.
Quick Anons, I need plothooks and ideas to not fuck this up like Bungie would.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@DeathDog
I know that The Last City only knows that Rasputin is alive, and the Vanguard assumes he has control over everything in system. But I don't recall anything confirming that the other six Seraphs weren't still around and kicking.

@Playboyize
Reused assets occur a lot, but it's also possible that not all of the Exodus program ships were launched from Old Russia. And it is possible that the floaty diamonds are derived from Rasputin or whatever group that symbol originally comes from.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Bidwell

I don't have any plots I can think of. Definitely don't set out to try and top or be on-par with what the player character in Destiny does, and maybe instead focus a little on smaller but nonetheless still disastrous plots against the City, Traveller, and other Guardians.

A Fallen Kell has been moving his forces stealthily into a more uncharted area for unknown purposes. What's this one after? Is it a threat to the City, a relic that could benefit the City if you possess it, or both?

The Hive hunger, but with the City defended, they don't seem to be able to get many kills in. A Hive character seeks to attack a more vulnerable Fallen ship, carrying untold numbers of Fallen civilians, which would certainly feed this Hive dude's hunger and boost his power. Do you find a way to alert the Fallen and allow themselves to fight to mutual destruction, ignore this threat and face a stronger Hive creature later, or swoop in and save the Fallen without their knowledge or thanks?

The Vex have been sighted on a planet they're not normally on. What are these fuckers up to, and what kind of timey-space-bullshit are they attempting to pull? Battle through a Vex vault in another dimension that has you thinking with portals, and uncover whatever the fuck it is they're doing (and possibly shoot it), if you can even understand it.

Methshot
Methshot

Maybe I'm biased because it's my main class but damn Titans seem like the best archetype.

Fun Class
Great look
Best characters

How can hinters and warlocks hope to compete?

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Methshot

I always feel they're a bit vanilla. I mean, being the strong-man and paladin, they're pretty badass. I just prefer Hunters, with their eccentricities and highly practical mindsets.

Also, they get Cayde-6.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Methshot
My favorite thing about them is how badass Sunbreakers are. Exploding and then pulling a flaming hammer from the fire is fucking metal.

Otherwise I prefer Warlocks simply because I enjoy mad-wizard classes.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@Methshot
How can hunters and warlocks hope to compete?
Stormcaller nigga.

likme
likme

@Bidwell
Plothooks in a general sense:
the Fireteam comes upon a Vex Goblin who is no longer connected to the Vex Network
a Hive Seeder has landed from the Moon, but Vanguard scouts found no sign of anything getting off of it
a small band of Newly Risen have decided not to side with The Last City and have been sewing terror in the local system
A golden age AI has hijacked a Fallen Servitor and is just trying to figure out what is going on

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@Methshot
There are a lot of opinions that come about for and against each class. I think in general you run into a slew of valid considerations on each side. I main Titan because that fits my aesthetic. But I also really appreciate Warlocks (Void a best, Arc/Solar a bust) for their sometimes abnormal pursuits and Hunters for their wanderlust.

It's funny because normally if we are going by PnP I'd be running Hunter as a main but man, if everything-is-punches isn't so much damn fun.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Bidwell
Vex shenanigans lead the party to travel back in time to kill their past selves before they can accidentally travel back in time.

RavySnake
RavySnake

How far are you all willing to either break lore or expand on some of the speculation and fan theories for your games?
Fighting a rival Fireteam of Dark Guardians as an endgame encounter sounds pretty legit to be honest, even though all the evidence we have for them is a bunch of Destiny lorenerds on Youtube speculating.

askme
askme

@RavySnake
I want more than anything to take the conflict with Oryx to its logical conclusion and replace him as the dominant metaphor for conquest. Let me sit the thrown, dammit.

The darkness is probably a top-tier waifu but NO, you have to run back to that little city. Just let me embrace the damn sword logic and take the fucker's place.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@RavySnake

I'd keep it pretty tight to the game lore and Grimoires, but I'd also throw in a few other things that fit. I mean, with ONLY game lore and locations to build off of, it'd be pretty small in scope, but expanding off of what can be but isn't ever mentioned would be interesting.

What's happened to Mexico City in this time, or maybe Beijing? Are there some frozen research bases in the Antarctic? And there's the few and far-between human settlements, although they're very rare and always at the mercy of the Fallen raiders.

Could be some Corps in the city are hunting for tech companies out in the wilderness to scavenge from, and you and a fireteam can take a trip to Silicon Valley to pull what you can from a research facility... And its automated defensive AI.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@askme

user, you don't take his place, he takes yours. Oryx is rebirthed when someone takes his place because Oryx isn't the king, he's also the title and the throne.

He left his sword behind as a trap. His goal was to trick you into following Sword Logic, and using it to kill him so he could gain your strength. By confounding his own Sword Logic by defeating him outside of Sword Logic, you actually deliver a defeat that's fucking inconceivable to him. You defeat the God of Sword Logic without Sword Logic which proves Sword Logic wrong, disproving Oryx from existence and making his own death a truth by his own machinations.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@askme
I'm reminded of the autism of /wodg/ and them wanting to romance the Lonely Exarch.
She's clearly Best Girl, but still.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@LuckyDusty
Let's be honest here, is it really wrong to want to fuck the Darkness?

Like, seriously. Pretty sure its a top-tier waifu.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@RavySnake

I'd be willing to break some lore and add my own stuff. Definetely more groups for people to join and more humans who refused to stay in the city or left the city inking out a living for themselves in the wilds.

That and just coming up with what I imagine the rest of the world looks like so definetly a lot of travel around Earth.

Inmate
Inmate

@askme
@Supergrass
user you can't just go tryin' to fuck primordial and malefic manifestations of Darwinism.

Methnerd
Methnerd

@Inmate

You wake up on a comfy couch but everything else looks like an abyssal void. There is a figure standing with an Apron that says "Kill the Cook" and she's watching over some cookies being baked

"Oh user! I didn't expect you to wake up so soon. While we're waiting for the cookies to be done how about we chat a bit about the useless illusions of culture and their insepid struggles for survival and meaning ?"

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Inmate
In a single instant at the beginning of the universe the atom won the first battle over what shape reality would take. This was the first victory.

My conquest of her heart will be the last.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@Inmate
My time playing Mage says that I can and will fuck primordial and malefic manifestations of any kind provided she's cute.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@RavySnake
It is important to remember that the most rational conclusion is that Destiny is actually players experiencing infinitely converging timelines and thus literally whatever you want to do in your PnP game is simply a separate timeline which may or may not be a successful timeline.

And given that, I wouldn't jump any sharks, but totally willing to explore things that aren't yet confirmed as canon for the sake of an interesting story.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@Inmate
Not with that attitude you can't.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@girlDog
@idontknow
Cayde-6 remembers dying to a dense poisonous fog that seems to be incarnation of the Darkness.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Methnerd
I don't know why people trust Calus so much.
He won over the players with his gifts and honeyed words, and promise of peace with Empire he doesn't even fully control.

I guess that's charisma, but given his connection to the Ahamkara (or he's straight up lying and is connected to the darkness), it's sketchy as fuck.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

If they were ever to add another element, what would it be? I would think something ground/planet aligned.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@happy_sad
Warlocks so salty they aren't cool they copy the titan solar class

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

Are there books about this thing? I like the words you're using but do not want to play video games to understand them.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@TalkBomber
You can take a look at the Ishtar Collective and other lore-collating sites to get a lot of the good lore. However, like anything you miss a lot of context and 'world feel' if you don't play the games

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Sharpcharm
I'd expect ice.

@TalkBomber
Playing the games gives you a better "feel" and visualization of the things you read about, but the meat is in grimoire cards (which aren't even readable within the game) and item descriptions (which were expanded in the second game, to replace the cards). Its similar to how the Souls series did it except bafflingly incompetent.

Ishtar Collective is one option, or you can comb through the cards and items themselves at Destinytracker, or watch this guy's videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2avSq-82oI

Methnerd
Methnerd

@Dreamworx
and take our Moon.

wut

Playboyize
Playboyize

@Methnerd
What's there to explain? They took the Moon.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Playboyize
But where? and why? and how? The moon is really big you cant just pocket it!

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@CouchChiller
'took' in the sense of capturing, oh user mine. Not stealing, or Taking.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@CouchChiller
Took as in conquered and dug in like ticks, not carting it off. Though it wouldn't have been odd for them to do that too. Planet-scale fuckery isn't uncommon in this setting.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Dreamworx
@Harmless_Venom
Then take the moon back! How hard could it be?

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Crazy_Nice
The whole thing is pretty much a giant fortress.

iluvmen
iluvmen

Where's the game?

Or is this all just /v/ shit?

farquit
farquit

@iluvmen
There are 2-3 people working on systems for it, and some others trying to adapt existing ones to run a game for it. Mainly it's for the lore. You try having an in depth lore discussion on /v/. See how that goes for you

Emberburn
Emberburn

@farquit
Completely this. The setting is actually pretty vast and reasonably developed, but the Destiny General threads are trash for just about everything.

@iluvmen
the game is in your mind

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Emberburn
The game is in the mind of a you in a Vex simulation

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@cum2soon
There's a thing in the CPU room? In that one mission I presume? Never noticed.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@GoogleCat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHkLxzW4Sxw

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@GoogleCat
Sometimes you have to wait around for it. Do note it isn't Oryx's Worm because that makes no physical/spacial sense.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Carnalpleasure
Implying the Vex simulation isnt a simulation of a simulation within our mind that is being simulated

RavySnake
RavySnake

@PurpleCharger
Oryx
Caring about normie things like distance, time or logic

happy_sad
happy_sad

@RavySnake
Well, when you are a worm riding a corpsicle I think it is fair to assume it didn't change course immediately and sunstantiall the minute we hopped jumpships back to the tower to dance around Guardians without Raid gear.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Methshot
How can warlocks hope to compete?
By being better melee tanks than Titans and having a more varied toolkit that actually impacts the way you play the class (mostly just Voidwalker, but there's a little bit of it in Dawnblade too).

Plus, our Arc class can summon lil buddies that shoot arc bolts with us. Can YOU summon lil buddies?

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@Burnblaze
Sunsinger so broken that Bungie has no idea what to do with them but mash together the other two solar subclasses together
Sunsinger so broken that Bungie invents three new subclasses just to justify it's removal
FTFY

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Crazy_Nice
We killed their demigod that took it, at least
@VisualMaster
It's more than that. Crota shoved his throne world in there via the Hellmouth

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Skullbone
needing little buddies
For the melee build you really have to push to a specialized build and to actually tank it suffer for not having grenades reliably. Titan can keep their Meta tree and double grenades and still melee tank.

Personally I use Attunement of Chaos and not Hunger for my Voidwalker, and run Sunbreaker as my Titan primary subclass.

Though ThicK-Thighs-Save-Lives Hunter builds are great. Like. So much fun.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Need_TLC
It wasn't that it was somehow broken in power. Sunsingers were pretty easy to deal with excluding peak Ram, but at that point we had Peak Sunbreaker Titans.

No, Sunsinger became a "donMt ever use your super" problem because it destroyed player engagement with their supers. It was counter to design goals so they changed it. Was revive a crutch for some? Sure. But it wasn't even the best Sunsinger build. But that and Tlaloc just made so many kids never touch their super.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Deadlyinx
Void is Gravity or Dark Energy
But those forces literally go against each other.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Flameblow
would you rather see these precious electrons used for a quest thread or Stat Me! Thread?
I have to agree with you on that.

Methshot
Methshot

@TreeEater
The heroes are literally immortal god-beings who can never lose
this somehow creates a compelling narrative

Why is Bungie so bad at writing stories? They ruined Halo with their "mankind are the chosen ones" but they dialed that up to 11 with this.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Methshot
literally immortal god-beings who can never lose
Except for all the times Guardians die and fail

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Methshot

Die to tactically superior space rhino romans
Die to a race of literal space pirates
Die to a race of time/reality fucking cyborgs
Die to a race that eats the light
Die to each other

For immortals, they die an awful lot.

idontknow
idontknow

@Methshot
So what you are telling me is you don't understand the Destiny Universe OR the Halo Universe.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@Methshot
user, just about all the races save the Fallen have a method of permanently killing you.

Admittedly the Cabal method(pre-Destiny 2) isn't something they can just pull out whenever so you can assume they don't count, but still.

5mileys
5mileys

@New_Cliche
wait, the Cabal had a permakill strategy pre-2?

Emberfire
Emberfire

@5mileys
"The Ghost can't rez him if we carpetbomb the area and set everything on fire"

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@5mileys
@Emberfire
If you kill a Guardian's Ghost then they can be killed. Most cases the Ghost is not able to be targeted until you down the Guardian.

So you kill them and then bomb the area where the Ghost is. One of the reasons The Reef and The Last City don't get along is because Petra Venj did a bombing run on the Twilight Gap during that conflict which meant a Final Death for a number of Guardians.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@Harmless_Venom
No, Sunsinger was literally broken. Every single Raid had a glitch centered around Warlocks rezzing at the perfect moment. Or chasing Vex off ledges with Void bombs. Crucible hardly mattered in D1.
@BlogWobbles
You don't NEED lil buddies, they're just fun and adorable and everyone in your Raid/Strike/public event loves you.

And Hungry Slaps is not that bad of a specialized build just kinda gimmicky, plus it's lots of fun against Hive. Though yeah, I completely agree that Chaos is more enjoyable for me and Sunbreaker with Hallowfire Hearth is how I run my Titan. Haven't got too much time or good exotics on my Hunter yet to develop a favorite style but I've been enjoying Gunslinger

hairygrape
hairygrape

@Emberfire
Ah. Not sure what I expected from the Cabal.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Booteefool
Broken in systematically flawed leading to glitches, sure. But usually that term is used to imply poor balancing. Bungie has gotten better about glitches in Raids as they have made more of them.

Also, CruCru was great in D1. Individual skill actually mattered and you could wrangle a 1v3+ and come out on top. It was substantially better than most modern PvP shooters for most of its run.

And the only way I run a hunter is with Orpheus Rig. Unless I'm trying to do daily Strike challenges I am never off Nightstalker. It is just too good.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Lunatick
@Lunatick
CruCru was great in D1
I agree, but even with Trials there was just less support and emphasis put on it.
And the only way I run a hunter is with Orpheus Rig
So I've seen. Still haven't gotten it yet though. Or celestial nighthawk.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@New_Cliche
The Fallen, at least the skilled ones, probably use the same method Felwinter used pre-Traveller.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Skullbone
Except that it fleshed out the end game experience. There was a reliable push to keep PvP on a similar level of benefit. 99% on average Iron Banner vendor rolls. Some of the best weapons being limited to Crucible drops. So when you had done your Nightfalls and don't have time for a Raid (or you've already run them all that week) you still had the Crucible.

Des2ny Crucible is rubbish trying to capture the worst of Halo 3 while also sucking a lot of the fun out of PvE for the sake of balance.

speaking of CruCru, it definitely needs to be an identified portion for any PnP, given the in-universe reason for it to exist.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@VisualMaster
while also sucking a lot of the fun out of PvE for the sake of balance.
Because having gear and abilities be stated differently in PVE and PVP is such an out there and hard concept to implement, user. It's not like MMOs have done that for years or anything.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@5mileys
Yes, and it was literally orbital bombardment.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@haveahappyday
Inactually am fully behind their intended goal of consistency in feel across all modes. They have established that and I am fine with it, because it logically follows that damage values against a Guardian are different than other targets.

The fun sapping is part of the core design change to make it a gun-oriented, competitive experience. In D1 I could chuck a grenade at least every 25 seconds without sacrificing anything major excluding melee and super cooldowns. And as a Titan I could keep two at any time and I could have extra heavy ammo to boot.

Now I have to sacrifice a mod slot for cooldowns to get one grenade every 68-or-so seconds and only one subclass tree lets me rock two grenades.

Abilities gave Crucible life, as well as empowered players in PvE. In Des2ny that character of gameplay is gone for boring plinking.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Stark_Naked
For example, Variks constantly asks to see your ghost and ship. They know, they just have trouble getting their hands on the damn things

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@New_Cliche
Which is actually an interesting problem to provide players with if you wanna bring such things into PnP.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Stupidasole
Players have to complete whatever they're trying to do before the bombardment is engaged.
The bombardment itself could release some ancient evil for the next quest.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@Skullbone
Alternately, using an incoming bombardament to their advantage to take out a harder target.

Evilember
Evilember

@StonedTime
@viagrandad
You getting shot by Fallen #47293783936 and having 0 health isn’t dying.

You come back within seconds and that’s canon, not a gameplay mechanic

TechHater
TechHater

Anyone else absolutely despise the D2 PvP?

It’s literally sprint around and hope you see someone before they see you. And also stick to teammates like glue (if they scatter—you’re absolutely fucked).

Like Titans aren’t tougher than others, Hunters aren’t faster than others, Warlocks don’t regenerate faster than others, your gear doesn’t matter, strategy besides clumping together is null.

Basically just wait for your Super or Power Weapon to one shot someone with twitch reflexes and then go back to sprinting around hoping you’re not seen, but you see them.

whereismyname
whereismyname

Does anyone watch the Pro Bowl? Why?

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@VisualMaster

Crucible games could be where players can officially PvP, given the lower loss stakes and the higher prestige rewards for winning.

Also, it could be a way for Guardians to fight other powerful Guardians with player abilities, allowing a GM to kick players into playing tactically to survive. A game could start in a Crucible game, with the players being taught how to play right off the bat. After their training session, they're now mostly familiar with live-fire gaming, and can rest up by exploring their social abilities as they brag about their wins or suck up their losses.

I know some GMs have a Session 0 where they start them in an arena with a large wooden constructed dragon and a metal pipe. How they interact with the wooden dragon can be explored, like hitting it or trying to pry it apart. This gives them a familiarity with both mock-combat and skill checks and interactions.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@Deadlyinx
It also let's the GM show players what they themselves are capable of since they're facing other Guardians using the same abilities as them. Maybe have your enemy team pull off some group tactics like a Titan hurling another Titan at the players at the cost of both of their Fist of Havoc in exchange for greater damage and AoE

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Evilember
That mainly applies to fights with cannon fodder, and even they can get lucky from time to time. Tons of guardians have been permakilled, the only reason players don't have to worry about it is because permadeath is a bit of a niche mechanic.

Lorewise, anyone that wiped in VoG got kicked out of existence, anyone that wiped on Crota/Oryx had their light eaten, and any wipe in a darkness zone could probably be considered a ghost kill.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Stark_Naked

Also a good idea, a demonstration of the kinds of shenanigans players could get up to, GM willing since he's making the demonstration.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Skullbone

227 Vex simulations running simultaneously within a single artifact the size of a trinket.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

How many ghosts are there? Are more being made?

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Gigastrength

Unknown, but no one has seen new Ghosts come into being, though dead Ghosts have been seen around quite a lot.

Same with Guardians, it seems rare that Ghosts choose Guardians, and rarer still for a Ghost to choose a new Guardian when their previous owner has been perma-killed.

It leads a number of characters to ponder, rather troublingly, as to whether or not Guardians and Ghosts are finite resources, and that every loss is irreplaceable.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@StrangeWizard
I'd say that previously. Ghosts weren't getting replaced. It was mass creation and then they all set out to find their Guardian. With the Traveler 'awake' that might change.

It also leads me to wonder just how those ghosts whose Guardians were on other planets got there....

As to your other point, I've always been curious as to just how a guardian could be killed permanently if their ghost still exists. Does it take completely disintegrating the body? Simply killing them in an area where there is so much Darkness the light can't reach them? We know the Hive can perma-kill them with some spells/rituals.

But it brings about the questions like. If a guardian dies where their ghost can't safely rez them, or while separated from the ghost. What happens if someone brings the body to a safer place? (assuming their is a body left)

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@Deadlyinx

Dredgen Yor killed a Guardian by shooting him, and that Guardian's Ghost seemed unable to revive him, instead choosing a new Guardian.

Ghosts themselves can be killed if you bombard the area, and, yes, the Hive can drain the light out of someone to make them vulnerable. The Vex can also delete Guardians, which eliminates the ability to revive them.

Assuming there's a body left, a Ghost could probably revive them. Ghosts do that during raids, sticking around until a Guardian buddy can revive their teammate through... some means? I think the Ghost of the dead guy is holding their pattern in place or something, and the teammate is using their own Ghost to revive their buddy. Or something.

Skullbone
Skullbone

Thoughts on the traveller? Is it actually benevolent? Or usiing humanity as a shield like it did the Fallen?

Emberburn
Emberburn

@viagrandad

DYING IS A VITAL PART OF THE CRUCIBLE, GET BACK IN THERE GUARDIAN

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Nude_Bikergirl
Yeah. The ghost reviving thing gets tricky, specially when comparing the world and strikes when compared to the Crucible. Given that some attacks actually vaporize bodies.

We see in the Zavala trailer that the ghost doesn't have to wait for someone else when there is a body and a safe area. In the world, it could be the ghost is waiting to be signaled that it is safe to rez a Guardian, or that they will be protected while they do their work.

Another question I've got now with the Red War is what happens to those Guardians who might have had their ghosts killed but they themselves survived. Are they still able to channel the light just with no do-overs unless a ghost chooses them again? Odds are we probably won't get a real answer, but it's still a curiosity.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Skullbone

Seems benevolent, but decided to stop running and instead stand and fight. Otherwise it seems to have held out as long as it could against the Darkness, until the situation becomes untenable and it gets threatened directly, since it appears to have no offensive capabilities. Well, I guess it did finally, but that put it into a centuries-long coma.

It's obviously not using Humanity just like the Fallen, because it didn't do whatever it was that it did to the Darkness when it was hovering above the Fallen. It chose to stay, or was perhaps coaxed into staying by Rasputin's own action or perhaps just the preparation for action, although the Traveller Card seems to suggest that not even the dimmest sense of the outside world remained to it.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@Deadlyinx
It also leads me to wonder just how those ghosts whose Guardians were on other planets got there....
The Ghost just flew there, I imagine. One ended up on Mars and, running low on power, realizing it will never find a Guardian, instead used its waning life to spy on Cabal.

Which brings up an interesting point as well, it seems like Ghosts need a Guardian to live. I imagine they create a positive feedback loop of Light to sustain each other

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@Lord_Tryzalot

Possibly, the Ghosts are imbued with a spark of Light, but it's actually the Guardians that generate new Light which keeps them powered.

Basically, the Ghosts are jump-starters who find those Guardians who can start generating their own Light, and perhaps establish a two-way connection to the Traveller between them.

Also makes sense why the Traveller went dormant after it did its thing, it had literally spent its most precious, powering resource clearing the area and putting what was left into the Ghosts. Also why the Speaker was possibly after the Motes of Light, he wanted to stuff them back into the Traveller to replenish its lost energy and power up again.

I mean, it makes sense that the Traveller, with its last act, would create a place for and the creatures who could generate more Light for it. A selfless act that didn't create an end, but instead opened the way for the possibility of a future should those imbued with Light survive and thrive under it. This would mean the Traveller is actually a whole fucking lot wiser than we give it credit for, thinking of a solution this long into the future. Then again, that's exactly what it seemed designed to do.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@TechHater
While I agree that the PvP is kinda shit, the class differences do exist. Max any class can get in its non-dominant is 8 (I don't have the reference on my telephony device) and max for their dump stat is 6 (5 for Hunters until they get unbroken) and while a lot of people will act like they make no difference, they do in notable but minor ways.

Most people playing don't chase he meta anyway, so in most cases a Hunter will outstrafe Titans and Warlocks, Titans will take one more crit over a body shot or sometimes an extra shot over the other two with certain weapons, and Warlocks who are able to disengage will recover their health first. A 10 recovery fully recharges health and shields before a 3 recovery even starts on the shields.

But yeah. Crucru in d2 a shit.

@Deadlyinx
I like the idea of using it as a Food Fight of sorts. It would make for an interesting framing device to start up games in striking opposition to "you are all in a tavern" as is that fun fantasy cliche.

Though I've never heard of a session 0 with a wooden dragon. In 25 years of TT. So that is a new one to me.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Deadlyinx
The lore almost contradicts itself, ghosts certainly seem to hide in an extra dimensional space most of the time but some cinematics also make it seem that they are always around, just maybe hiding in a mundane manner while there is fighting going on. There are plenty of guardians who shoild still have ghosts but we dont ever see them. The lore also flat out contradicts itself on resurrection. The Cabal state that guardians come back after complete disintigrations, we see it happen in the crucible and some PvE scenarios but then we see lore cards and videos about the ghosts needing to have the dead body to raise. Maybe the full rezz is a new function ghosts have learned? It seems like the need to have a body is mostly mentioned in earlier stuff during the age of warlords.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@kizzmybutt
ghosts needing to have the dead body to raise.
Yeah, our ghosts needed to find our body in order to resurrect us and couldn't just create us a new body out of thin air.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@New_Cliche
This was just a theory of theirs and it may not work. They used targeted bombardment in a world event in D2 Which has a good chance of killing some guardians but doesn't perma kill them. Actually the cabal drill could very well be a field test of that theory from D1 since it also tends to attract groups of guardians. That is something else the cabal want, getting a lot of guardians in one spot. Then they bombard from their ships. But the guardians still rezz. Basically, if ghosts really do hide in some other dimension or chill in some state of energy instead of matter than the bombardment strategy wont do much. In play it doesn't work. In lore I bet we'll see mixed results.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@BlogWobbles
Only for that initial rez and scraps of bone seemed to be enough to work with. After that it is explicity stated both ways, rez from nothing left and needs a body.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@BlogWobbles
our ghosts needed to find our body in order to resurrect us and couldn't just create us a new body out of thin air.
Shaxx says differently. One of the crucible bounties in D1 said something to the effect of "Don't like crucible? Spend less time as disassociated atoms and force your enemies to suffer instead!"

So either ghosts can do without anymore or what counts as an intact body is pretty damn generous.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@Nude_Bikergirl
Dredgen's kills were probably because of Thorn doing the same thing Hive can.

@Lunatick
@LuckyDusty
Considering the tech level, the ghost being able work with atoms isn't a stretch.

It might work like this. Ghosts hide in the guardian's inventory, but need to come out when the guardian dies, either because it just doesn't have the space without a guardian or because it needs to keep track of the body. This creates an opening, but they're a little too hard for most infantry to nail. If that's the case, bombardment would be effective, but it would still have to be done carefully. One boom to kill the guardian, then another boom (or a lingering effect) on the same spot to catch the ghost after it comes out, but before it can revive the guardian and hide again.

Inmate
Inmate

@Spazyfool
It is also important to note that any in-universe explanation is prone having an unreliable narrator. How many things work are less explicit due to that fact. From a mechanical standpoint for PnP, regarding Ghosts and revival, I think it drawing from your overall Light while taking a short span of time, and shorter the more available Light, is the way to explain it. Space Magic; Working As Intended. So when the Ghost has a direct line to the stores of Traveler Light it is easy and never ending revival. When that connection is severed it is not only slower but a finite resource.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@TechHater
Warlocks don’t regenerate faster than others

Methshot
Methshot

@Booteefool
That's actually really cool. Are there equivalent videos for the other stats?

Evilember
Evilember

@Methshot

Not really, at best, High mobility will help you strafe faster but doesn't do more for you than that and Resiliance is Resiliance

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@Methshot
Not really, as that is the only one with an easy visual. You can find videos comparing strafe speed and jump height for Mobility. And for Resilience just remember that at 0 you have 186 "health" (70 red, 116 shields) and for 1 to 5 you get +2 shields, and 6 to 10 you get +1 up to 201 (70 red, 131 shields), and your goal is basically to keep your health "above meta" anyway. Which for most folks is 4, as MIDA goes from 2crit2body to 3crit1body at 194 health with rounding.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

destiny
lore

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@Skullbone
There might be multiple Travelers.
This one might be unrelated to the Great Machine of the Fallen.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@CouchChiller
Deepest Lore.

@PurpleCharger
I am pretty sure ours is directly related, as they've been chasing it since they "recovered" from the Whirlwind.

Now, the suggestion there are other Travelers is super interest. Albeit likely outside of the scope of anything we will learn soon.

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