/ccg/ Custom Card General /cct/

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

Big ol' titties edition!

To make cards, download MSE for free from here:
http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/
OR
Mobile users might have an easier time signing up here:
https://mtg.design/

Hi-Res MSE Templates
http://pastebin.com/Mph6u6WY

Mechanics doc (For the making of color pie appropriate cards)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgaKCOzyqM48dFdKRXpxTDRJelRGWVZabFhUU0RMcEE

Color Pie mechanics
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/mechanical-color-pie-2017-2017-06-05

Read this before you post cards for the first time, or as a refresher for returning cardmakers
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Jn1J1Mj-EvxMxca8aSRBDj766rSN8oSQgLMOXs10BUM

Design articles by Wizards
http://pastebin.com/Ly8pw7BR

Primer: NWO and Redflagging
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/creativity/custom-card-creation/578926-primer-nwo-redflagging

Q: Can there be a sixth color?
A: http://pastebin.com/kNAgwj7i

Q: What's the difference between multicolor and hybrid?
A: http://pastebin.com/yBnGki1C

Q: What is precedence?
A: http://pastebin.com/pGxMLwc7

Art sources
http://www.artstation.com/
http://drawcrowd.com/
http://fantasygallery.net/
http://grognard.booru.org/
http://fantasy-art-engine.tumblr.com/

Stitch cards together with
http://old.photojoiner.net/

/ccg/ sets (completed and in development)
http://pastebin.com/hsVAbnMj

OT: /tg/thread/56360807#p56360807

All urls found in this thread:
http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/
https://mtg.design/
http://pastebin.com/Mph6u6WY
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgaKCOzyqM48dFdKRXpxTDRJelRGWVZabFhUU0RMcEE
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/mechanical-color-pie-2017-2017-06-05
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Jn1J1Mj-EvxMxca8aSRBDj766rSN8oSQgLMOXs10BUM
http://pastebin.com/Ly8pw7BR
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/creativity/custom-card-creation/578926-primer-nwo-redflagging
http://pastebin.com/kNAgwj7i
http://pastebin.com/yBnGki1C
http://pastebin.com/pGxMLwc7
http://www.artstation.com/
http://drawcrowd.com/
http://fantasygallery.net/
http://grognard.booru.org/
http://fantasy-art-engine.tumblr.com/
http://old.photojoiner.net/
http://pastebin.com/hsVAbnMj
http://www.mtgvault.com/mtgblackman/decks/yidris-negru-triblar/
https://twitter.com/RumLockerArt/status/922780481275404289
http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/apostro.asp
http://pastebin.com/hsVAbnMj
http://pastebin.com/Ly8pw7BR
http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/12518
RavySnake
RavySnake

/tg/thread/56360807#p56401142
My fallout effects aren't usually that strong. That card is an exception, because its both rare and has no regular way to get to your graveyard (if you put it on the battlefield, it will just lay there doing nothing)

Playboyize
Playboyize

/tg/thread/56360807#p56401375
I'm looking at the Declare Blockers step in detail and it seems that you first declare what creatures will be blocking, run through a checklist to see if you have to do anything regarding any of the blockers, check for legality, etc. Then you assign creatures as blockers to attacking creatures as you wish. Now, the thing that I'm confused about is once you declare a creature is a blocker, is it blocking? Or does 'blocking' specify that it has to actually be blocking another creature, and it's not actually blocking till that substep of the whole thing. I think Curtain of Light does what it does because you have to cast it after blocking is all set up, but before the end of the Declare Blockers step.

I might be wrong here but I think it works as intended?

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@Playboyize
Bah, nevermind, I missed a step in all that; creatures become blocking pretty early in the process; I skimmed over it when I was looking for the terminology I needed. I should use ctrl+f when I search Comp Rules that are this verbose.

I'll just switch it to static then.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@TechHater
Okay this is pretty great. I wish there were a zoomed out image of Lancelot's charge; that'd make great art too. Also those mountains have huge nipples Jesus Christ.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

Hey Veeky Forums, I've been trying to concept a card for a while and i was wanting some help
concept:
Look very far
XGG
Rare
Sorcery
Search your library for X basic lands and put them onto the battlefield tap, then shuffle your library. You gain X life,

Is this card busted? unplayable?

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@Sir_Gallonhead
Checking costs on cards that tutor X lands, most of them cost a lot; 5-7 mana. And they usually have caveats like X equaling the highest power among creatures you control or something, so it's not a variable. So I have to say that yeah, what you have there is probably too good. If it saw print it might be XXGG.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@Sir_Gallonhead
Like @Need_TLC
said, this is very strong. Land tutors should at least cost XX. I have included one in my colorfuck set.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

Going for a cycle, but haven't come up with an idea for blue yet.

likme
likme

@Burnblaze
learn a lesson from devoid and do not use this mechanic

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@TurtleCat
Whenever enchanted creature deals combat damage to a player, you may draw a card. If you do, discard a card.

Fallout -- blah blah graveyard draw a card.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@likme
learn a lesson from devoid and do not use this mechanic
My set also features Devoid. But in my defense (if that even makes sense), I chose to include Devoid in my expansion before it was released as a real mechanic.

@Gigastrength
There's two reasons why I don't think this would be a good choice:

1) My set has a mechanic called Curiosity (Whenever this creature deals combat damage to an opponent, you may draw a card), so I shouldn't really put another sort of draw-on-damage that is similar but different from that.

2) I have another blue aura that gives the ability mentioned above. So I don't really want to roll with with two auras giving the same ability. Also, I would like if it was a bit different than just giving a keyword, like Warbanner.

@Flameblow
Immunity
This seems a very specific keyword. I could see 1 card with this ability, but making a whole keyword for it is weird. Also, when I first started reason the ability, I was expecting something like "Prevent all combat damage dealt to this creature". I was honestly disappointed.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

For the thread edition, decided to go back to some CO stuff. These are both mostly done, I just have a few minor concerns to address before I call them finished.

She-Hulk: I actually really like how this works, but I'm a bit afraid I might've made it too busy. Should I take off one of the last two abilities?

Power Girl: The pump is a vestigial mechanic left over from a previous design. I'm thinking I should just remove it, as it doesn't really serve a purpose here, but the part of me afflicted by Complexity Addiction says it doesn't do enough otherwise. Should I just take the ability off, or change it to something new?

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@TurtleCat
I feel like these are all too disconnected to be a cycle. Sure, they have Fallout, but other than that, what they do to the enchanted creature is so different that I wouldn't have even thought of them as a cycle if you hadn't said they are.

Oh, and Fallout's wording shoudl be
When ~ is put into a graveyard [...]
Since it's only going to happen once. Oh, and you forgot "from anywhere" on the B one. Additionally, your wording isn't always consistent, as sometimes the Fallout ability uses the name of the card twice (W and G) but other times uses the name once and "it" later (B and R).

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@Playboyize
Seems pretty cool, though I'm not sure how to cost it, since this basically makes it unblockable.

@Flameblow
Incredibly narrow. I realize it can be tempting to do stuff like this though, which is why I had a problem throwing Indestructible on all of my CO cards for a while, because why should this robot die from a Scorpion sting? But it just doesn't create good interactions when you do stuff like this.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@kizzmybutt
I feel like these are all too disconnected to be a cycle
I actually like the cycle like this. I think it makes it less predictable. Also, take a look Rancor's original cycle, or the similar cycle on Urza's Legacy. They were all quite different from each other.

Oh, and Fallout's wording shoudl be
Since it's only going to happen once. Oh, and you forgot "from anywhere" on the B one. Additionally, your wording isn't always consistent, as sometimes the Fallout ability uses the name of the card twice (W and G) but other times uses the name once and "it" later (B and R).
Thanks for pointing these out! I wasn't sure about the "When" vs "Whenever" thing, and the inconsistent of name vs. "it" was just an attention mistake. I've corrected them all now, thanks to you.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@Gigastrength
@kizzmybutt
I think I will settle for this (pic related) to close @TurtleCat
's cycle.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

I really like Thing in the Ice

whereismyname
whereismyname

@BinaryMan
I think you've done a Carol card already but I'm gonna toss my hat into the ring. I wish I had better art but I haven't hit up a /co/ art thread in a long time.
Shulk
Yeah she's too busy. I'd nix the draw.
Peej
You know, I've given you input on this card pretty much since you started working on it, and it just now dawned on me: why not give her "attacks each combat if able" to represent how she tends to punch first and think later? Not many of your cards have downsides and I feel like you could cut out the pump and just tack on a clause on the last ability that puts a +1/+1 counter on her when she does get through? That might be a bit much.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@whereismyname
Shulk
Got it.

Peej
I'll try out the attack each turn bit. I actually did something similar on Big Barda, where she had Vigilance and attacked and blocked each combat.

Carol Danvers
Didn't know she's a Skrull. Though I've honestly never been very interested in this character anyway. Our designs share a few similar traits which is interesting, probably because we both incorporated her vague "manipulates energy" counters as spell triggers and buff. Here's mine for comparison. Hmm, that target-change ability is kinda interesting. I think I'll try to incorporate that into Moonstone.

girlDog
girlDog

@StrangeWizard
*"manipulates energy" powers
Why did I say counters?

@whereismyname
BTW, any particular character/concept from comics you'd like to see me adapt? I think a few challenges might help me get back into the CO stuff.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

Was checking Sankaku Complex for big ol' titties art for cards, for some reason decided to search for succubus/demon girl art for cards.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@TurtleCat
@Raving_Cute
@Sharpcharm
@Evilember
Fallout is too cheap given how comprehensive the trigger is. Fallout on instant/sorceries will trigger just from it resolving.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@Fuzzy_Logic
I think it would be more fitting if it was:
[...] with toughness less than Enslaving Succubus's power [...]
Because the power of the succubus is charming and seduction, so it should "fight" the creature's will rather than strength (toughness is not exactly will, but its closer than strength).

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@Burnblaze
You know, I was actually thinking of doing that. Thanks.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@w8t4u
Fallout on instant/sorceries will trigger just from it resolving.
I wasn't supposed to put it on non-permanents. Forgot about that when I did Call of the Claw.

Techpill
Techpill

I have no idea what I'm doing

TreeEater
TreeEater

@Techpill
I'd say overcosted. Conceptually cool, though.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

Wanted a R and U effect because of the artwork. But for some reason this design feels very familiar. Is there a previous card very similar to this I'm forgetting?

@TreeEater
I think it's OK. Screams aggro.

@Techpill
I actually think this could be pretty cool. Maybe have the opponent sac at random? But would that be too strong as-is?

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@StrangeWizard
Oh yeah, and I just realized that the order of the abilities should be flipped around. Whoops.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@StrangeWizard
OK, last one for tonight. Ability is supposed to be a bit of a throwback to Guardian Beast. Flash so you can fuck over your opponents if they try to take your stuff.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@StrangeWizard
Skrull
WHERE? She's part Kree in one arc or something; I forget. They've done so much goddam off the wall shit with her that I don't even know anymore. Your Carol seems as I remember it.

@girlDog
Hm. It's been a while since you asked. What about Section 8? I don't think you've done them yet.

@TreeEater
Ayo Timeanon. I see a rework has occurred. Looks good. I like that it's a 1-drop now; I have a thing for 1-drops. You still super-busy with work or will you be stopping by more often?

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@Booteefool
WHERE?
Meant to say Kree. Fuck, what's wrong with me?

Section 8
Aw fuck. ...No. I'm sorry, I can't do these guys, pick someone/something else. I never intended to do these guys because their entire concept is a stupid joke. The only one I could even consider doing is the welder. He would somehow create Hound creature tokens, then sac them for Murder.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@Fuzzy_Logic
I can dig it. I'd play it in EDH. Actually a shame it's not Legendary. I like the suggestion about P v. T too.

@StrangeWizard
She looks a bit too... young girlish to be a Grixis Succubus. But maybe that's her trick? I dunno. I dunno if I'd want this at uncommon; would you want to stare two of these down in a draft?

@Nojokur
Seems really off in black, even with its avaricious themes. I feel like this would be in green nowadays or something. Maybe I'm wrong.

@Deadlyinx
AWWWWW. I love Section 8. Oh well.

I'll throw ALL the demonic bewbs on the fire!

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Booteefool
I see a rework has occurred. Looks good.
Thanks! Glad you like it. Think it's common material?
You still super-busy with work or will you be stopping by more often?
First year teaching has me swamped, but I lurk every thread and post when I can. I'll definitely be around, I'll just be slow about actually making cards.
Gryfflet
That's adorable. I love it. Good way to make flying men marginally more useful, too.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@viagrandad
Think it's common material?
Hm. Yeah, I think so. It self-targets, and costs you a card every time, so unless your set is rife with recursion mechanics it's actually sort of a steep cost. I think that might be one reason why Spellshapers fell out of favor. Well that and they make for a repetitive board state and PWs killed them. I do still love them though.
Gryfflet
I purposely nerfed the gustcloaking to not untap it so it wouldn't be too good.

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Booteefool
Seems fine, though I've always not felt right about the combat-fleeing effects being in W instead of R.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@RavySnake
I dunno if the wording on that is right. There aren't many cards that discount equip costs to compare to though.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@Lunatick
Yeah, I felt that too when making it. I first thought of writing it as:
"Abilities of Equipment that target ~ cost 1 less." but that felt awkward.
Maybe, "Equip abilities targetting ~ cost 1 less"?

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@Spazyfool
I can dig it. I'd play it in EDH. Actually a shame it's not Legendary. I like the suggestion about P v. T too.
Well, I could easily make it legendary.

She looks a bit too... young girlish to be a Grixis Succubus. But maybe that's her trick? I dunno. I dunno if I'd want this at uncommon; would you want to stare two of these down in a draft?
Good point on rarity. I said Grixis just because it's the biggest thing related to UBR. What else is there, the Nightscape stuff from Dominaria?

Seems really off in black, even with its avaricious themes. I feel like this would be in green nowadays or something. Maybe I'm wrong.
I don't really know where this ability would go. I guess G would be one of the obvious answers. For some reason I like Guardian Beast though.

AWWWWW. I love Section 8. Oh well.
I'll see about doing the Dogwelder then.

Not entirely sure on costing this, but it seems OK right now.

@RavySnake
I think this should be something like
Equip abilities you activate that target ~ cost 1 less to activate.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@TreeEater
From my own recent experiments with Equipment tokens, I'd recommend just replacing this with an Equipment itself.

W
Artifact - Equipment
Flash
When ~ enters the battlefield, you may attach it to target creature you control.
Equipped creature gets +1/+1.
Equip 2

Either way, feels a bit too complex for common.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@w8t4u
I dunno how I feel about doing just a 1 of colored artifact at uncommon. I'm already using Weapon tokens, so I felt it would be fine to make another source besides the current.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@New_Cliche
Eh, OK, use the tokens then. BTW, why name the tokens?

Emberburn
Emberburn

@TreeEater
A friend brought up there wasn't any precedence for an equipment token, or any non-creature artifact token for that matter, without a name. I think the reasoning is Artifact tokens all survey some kind of general purpose, but different ones.
Clues got their own name, Gold did, Treasure does, so it's probably the safe bet that an equipment token needs one too.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Emberburn
Serve some kind*

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Emberburn
First, Gold is a name. Clue and Treasure are types. But they're also names, because, just as with creature tokens, the subtypes of artifact tokens also set their names.
110.5c A spell or ability that creates a token sets both its name and its subtype. If the spell or ability doesn’t specify the name of the token, its name is the same as its subtype(s). A “Goblin Scout creature token,” for example, is named “Goblin Scout” and has the creature subtypes Goblin and Scout. Once a token is on the battlefield, changing its name doesn’t change its subtype, and vice versa.
Notice how this doesn't specify creature token.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@TreeEater
@w8t4u
Or just make it an Aura with "2: Attach to target creature. Sorcery only etc."

Techpill
Techpill

@Spazyfool
Lifelink puts it over the top at that mana cost since you could suicide one a turn to offset the life cost.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Soft_member
Good point. I'll change em to just Equipment.

TechHater
TechHater

@Stupidasole
In your defense, they only changed that rule somewhat recently. Before Shadows, it only affected creature tokens.

card
Prevent all combat damage that would be dealt to ~ by token creatures.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@Stupidasole

Makes an interesting counterpoint to something I made ages ago (Since Fighting a creature isn't combat damage)

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Spamalot
This is very cute. I love the effect. I'd really like to see it in a Planar Chaos kind of set, where all these little niche exceptions really mater.
Truesteel is only here sense Sultai has so many token creatures.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@viagrandad
... costs 2 less TO ACTIVATE if ...

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

Someone a long while ago pointed out the first version was too strong, bringing up the comparison to fateseel. I figure this is weaker sense it provides more information to everyone, and gives you less control.

Bidwell
Bidwell

An over coasted Man-o-war that turns into an over costed flash-backed Unsubstantiate

Emberburn
Emberburn

@viagrandad

It was made alongside this when I was dicking about with fight stuff.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@Emberburn

Oh and this.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Ignoramus
I don't see what this is white

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Soft_member

Investigate. Mind you, it was made back when we only had spoilers for the set (So that green got investigate wasn't known).

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@w8t4u
This effect has only ever been seen in Blue through Shared Fate, so I don't really feel it would be right outside of the color. This also really doesn't fit B sense I don't think B would ever want to try and take your opponents strategy like this.
UR is the home for this.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@Harmless_Venom
Not him, but B already has a number of cards that allow you to play with your opponents' cards. This fits BR pretty well because it's R for wheel, B for stealing cards. Though it should allow players to spend mana like it's any type to cast the cards.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@lostmypassword
B wouldn't let your opponent play with yours though is the issue. Also B has always been selective about it, so at most I think R making it less controlled would justify it, but not letting your opponent draw as well takes it out of B.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@SniperWish
This is a very easy 2-for-1 at instant.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@Stupidasole
The flavortext agrees with you.
I'll make it 4 mana how about that? It's stil super combat and creature dependent.

Evilember
Evilember

@happy_sad
This is way too cheap for free repeated token generation.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Evilember
Woops that was the wrong card. I scrapped that forever ago.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

Do templates exist for contraptions? I like the full-art-but-with-a-text-box look even outside of making stuff like this

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Evil_kitten
There's the M15 Clear template

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

Making a dream-based set, and have come up with my dream mechanic. Thoughts? Enchantments that are relatively strong for their cost, but you can only have one dream out at a time, which kinda makes them beyond legendary I guess? So if you have out Dreary Village, playing Dead World kills it. If you already have a Dreary village and you play another one then nothing really happens, the old one goes to the grave and your opponent's monsters stay at -1/-1.

With that in mind, please tell me if anything is broken for their cost regardless, as it's something I've always had a bit of trouble with

takes2long
takes2long

@Raving_Cute
Feels like a very clunky mechanic, that forces decks to play a very select few of these dream cards or else they'll get punished for having to sac resources.
I think it would be better if the Dreams all had a charge counter system and once used up you "Wake up" from the dream and then they get sac'd or shuffled into library or something.
Themes aside, lets actually talk about the cards.
Dead World
Feels alright. it's a big mana investment at sorcery speed, but sense it's an entry trigger I'm not sure why Dead World isn't just a sorcery instead of an enchantment.

Spirit woods
Seems fine though a little strong for a common.

Aether Train Stop
Doesn't feel very U. I also don't really see why you should reward yourself for playing defensive by getting to play more defensibly. Even control decks need to try and kill their opponent at some point.

Dreary Village
A generally better, commmon rarirty, Night of the Soul's Betrayal definitely shouldn't be a common or cost 2 mana. Definitely needs to be redesigned or scrapped.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Sharpcharm
There is one too many X here imo.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@Nude_Bikergirl
Gotta love me some Moomin.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@takes2long
I have plans to add more stuff interacting specifically with dreams, such as fetch and destruction, though I'm not sure how much would help.

Dead world is an enchantment for the sake of interaction. You can bounce it to play it again, though it could also be seen as an additional casting cost, since by that point in the game you almost certainly have a dream out already.

Spirit woods is now uncommon

Yeah, that's probably the third or fourth attempt to come up with something for that image and nothing seems to quite work out. The problem is that I want to make something with a "patiently waiting" feel to it, but waiting isn't very interesting

How about just -1/-0 so it doesn't kill 1/1s?

I also need to make a red dream

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

They never turned up in the same set but they'd be fun to see together.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Raving_Cute
send this card to the graveyard
Should be: "sacrifice this enchantment". Also Dream should be capitalized since it's a subtype.

target any number of creatures in your graveyard and return them to the battlefield tapped.
Should be "return any number of target creatures cards from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped". There are no creatures in your graveyard, and the target wording was awkward.

Also a bit OP on the balance side.

Landfall: Put a 1/1 green spirit token with "Sacrifice this creature: Add {1} to your mana pool" onto the battlefield.
Landfall is an ability word, meaning that it is practically flavor text.
It is not followed by a colon (:) because it's not a cost to pay.
It always needs its condition in its text (because the word Landfall has no bearing on the rules): Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, ...

Also, "Put a (token) onto the battlefield" has been changed to "Create a (token)".

Also, Spirit should be capitalized since it's a subtype.

creatures you control that did not attack
"that did not attack THIS TURN"

Dreary Village
A much cheaper Curse of Death's Hold. Scrap this idea.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@Dreamworx
I think it should investigate on combat damage to a player. But otherwise, really cool.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@Deadlyinx
...and to finish my thought, detain when you sac a Clue

Methshot
Methshot

@Deadlyinx

I'd considered that but I was a bit worried that as a 3/3 for 5 with no real evasion, she'd rarely make it. Still, not like I'm making a full set or something where balance needs to be perfectly tuned.

Tinkering with it along with a bit more stuff playing in the space.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

This is not here yet?
Gonna post a card or two about the combinations I got.

5mileys
5mileys

@Boy_vs_Girl
(...and I meant the 6-7 option.)
Combination:
Orc - Insect

TreeEater
TreeEater

@Playboyize
I have two issues with this card:

1) I don't really the artwork style. I know its about boobies, but it doesn't really seem the sort of artwork a MtG card would have.

2) What if this copies a goblin? Will it be a hot female goblin? How does THAT works out?

@Stark_Naked
Seems pretty cool, though I'm not sure how to cost it, since this basically makes it unblockable.
I think the cost is fine. There's about 7 cards that have "protection from creatures", I think most of them are costed 4 or less.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Harmless_Venom
You may put an Aura or Equipment card from your hand onto the battlefield attached to target creature you control. If you do, return that Aura or Equipment to your hand at the beginning of the next upkeep.

5mileys
5mileys

bleh

Emberburn
Emberburn

@AwesomeTucker
I get what you're going for, but Magic's comp rules don't define what a detained creature, so I highly doubt this works as-is.

Also, wording should be
its owner's hand.

JunkTop
JunkTop

Rolled 159 (1d238)

@Boy_vs_Girl
I'll have a go. Let's see if I can incorporate the thread theme, that was fun last time.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Emberburn

Hmm...you are right. It defines what detaining a creature means but not that the creature IS detained. Bother.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@JunkTop
159. Pirate
Pfft, that's lucky. Anyway, here's the card. I don't like how MTG.Design autocrops from the image URL, but I'm not at my comp right now, and it's close enough for now.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@TurtleCat
Yeah, sorry about that. I guess you could try to trigger off detaining though.
Whenever you detain a creature, [...]

Supergrass
Supergrass

@hairygrape

Could work, yeah. Turning a detain into an unsummon.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@Fuzzy_Logic
I would make it in a way it can't exchange itself.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@whereismyname
I think its unnecessary to have the "[removed]". Cutting the word is already enoug-

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

Trying to work this card out as a mythical. Added the last ability. What you guys think?

I'm also considering replacing it with "Whenever ~ is targeted by a spell or ability controlled by an opponent, it deals 3 damage to that player.". Would that be better?

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@Sharpcharm
Creatures spells cost 1 less to CAST

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@Spamalot
I think this would probably work a lot better if you just checked for the number of Chant cards in your graveyard.

Burning Chant deals damage to target creature or player equal to one plus the number of Chant cards in your graveyard.
etc

askme
askme

@lostmypassword
That removes proliferate and spell-copy synergy though.

massdebater
massdebater

@SniperGod
Not enough flavor for so much power.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@askme
But adds self-mill and similar synergy. Also, has sort of precedence (see the Burst cycle from Odyssey).

The reality is that these cards are trying to pull off a mechanic that requires a new special player counter for only 5 cards. And note that never again these counters can be used because any further cards meddling with these counters would make these cards even more dangerous. So unless your set features proliferate or any other change related mechanic and that is a desired interaction, I don't think its a good idea to go for "chant" counters for only 5 cards. Also, spell-copy isn't usually really that much frequent to make a decent synergy out of this. (if they were instants, at least you could Isochron Scepter them)

Emberfire
Emberfire

@lostmypassword
That actually seems kinda interesting. Kindle cards that not only stack with themselves, but other cards too.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@Nojokur
Yeah proliferate interaction was in my mind when creating them.

It's also a huge difference in EDH, going from "Probably Useless" to "Versatile Finisher"

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@massdebater
Every time I do worldbuilding I get talked shit

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@TechHater
Is this a yfm reference?

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@TurtleCat
Super trample for one mana
Nigga wut?

MPmaster
MPmaster

@5mileys
Yesssss

Techpill
Techpill

@Ignoramus
The only reason that cards is OP is because is based on Rancor, which is also OP compared to any cards of its cycle.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@Emberfire
That actually seems kinda interesting. Kindle cards that not only stack with themselves, but other cards too.
Seemed to me a more acceptable way to deal with it. I really think player counters that are used by only 5 cards are a dead-end design.

@Booteefool
Yeah proliferate interaction was in my mind when creating them.
Problem is that you are still creating a player counter, which is not something used much, for just 5 cards. If you create more cards with chant counters, this mechanic will probably be unbalanced, unless you reshape it. If you have your mind set in using counters, I would recommend doing it differently. Try making it an action keyword:

Chant (Put a chant counter on you.)

then use effects like this:
~ deals 2 damage to target creature or player. If you have 3 or more chant counters on you, ~ deals 4 damage to target creature or player instead.

Then you can have multiple sort of chanting, even creatures or other permanents that give a more solid source of chanting. Finally, you add a cycle of rare spells that have an X effect based on the number of chant counters on you.

Though I don't think Proliferate is much of a nice interaction for this. Maybe for an off-set thing that someone one day will try, but I wouldn't include Proliferate in a set with chant mechanic.

It's also a huge difference in EDH, going from "Probably Useless" to "Versatile Finisher"
If you want to design cards with cool interaction to EDH, maybe try not to use mechanics that are based on casting many copies of a card.

@Burnblaze
Every time I do worldbuilding I get talked shit
What exactly you mean by "worldbuilding"? Adding flavor text to a card?

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

The goal here is to have a big time pay off for all your retrospect cards, such as @StrangeWizard
, or the other entry-matters effects in UW.
It's suposed to do this by re-triggering all their entry effects, and also being a very slow but repeatable ability.
Is this worded correctly?

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

I'm looking for a name for this ability that came up in a previous version of this thread. The ability works like this:

<keyword> <cost> (<cost>: Return this permanent from your graveyard to the battlefield, then exile it. <keyword> only anytime you could play this card.)

So far, I have only 3 options for names, but I'm open to additional suggestions. Here is what I got so far (pic related):
Reminisce
Reberverate
Recur (my current favorite, because its simpler)

Any other suggestion? Which one you guys think is more fitting for the ability?

Firespawn
Firespawn

@ZeroReborn
This is pretty much just @TurtleCat
's Retrospect keyword.

5mileys
5mileys

@TurtleCat
Just use Panharmonicon's wording, just make it apply to all permanents that ETB.

TechHater
TechHater

@Firespawn
This is pretty much just @TurtleCat
's Retrospect keyword.

Uh, that is awkward. Its exactly the same.

But if I remember correctly, user said that he wasn't sure he would keep it, and even if he did, people were free to use it. I just had to happen to have to throw off the core keyword of my set so I need another graveyard-related keyword, and this one just feels quite nice.

@TurtleCat
, would you mind if I use your keyword? Also, do you think I should pick another name for it, or should we just roll with the same? The latter could be interesting since we came up with it together in these threads, but i'm in for it if you like the idea. If you prefer, I can just pick my own name (when making my list on @ZeroReborn
, I purposely left your original name out of it)

Let me know how you feel about sharing a keyword.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@TurtleCat
@ZeroReborn
Wait, I thought one of you based your mechanic on the other.

FastChef
FastChef

@PackManBrainlure
This set (@TurtleCat
)'s user posted a card with that virtually did that but was worded a lot differently, so I suggested to word it like this. When I mentioned I was actually thinking that maybe I could use my version for myself, he commented that he wasn't sure he would use it himself or not, but even if he did, anyone was free to use it.

Moving forward a few days, I've been posting cards with my mechanic Fallout (@TurtleCat
), and it was mostly received with negative feedback. This made me rethink it, which eventually convinced me that it was indeed a bit off for a mechanic, specially a core mechanic as I was trying to go for. So I became in need of a graveyard-related keyword with plenty of design space. Which is why I remembered this keyword, and after some thought, decided to go for it.

Then I posted it here and someone pointed out that user was using it as well. That is how I recall the events concerning the keyword. I helped created it, but can't say its mine because I had the idea from anon's mechanic, which was virtually quite similar.

likme
likme

@Stupidasole
I don't like Second Chance. Seems too much about hope for my taste.

@AwesomeTucker
Ancestral is a lot more interesting for a name, but I'm not sure it would fit my set's flavor. If the name had anything with soul or spirit, I would rather have it to be something like "all spirits are leaving the world of the dead and appearing in the world of living for a moment before going into eternal oblivion" sort of deal. The set is based on a plane that has its mana balance fucked up, so if the name of the keyword could anyhow relates to that, it would be great.

Also, I intentionally chosed "<keyword> only anytime you could play this card" over "<keyword> only as a sorcery" because I'm intend on doing some fun interaction with Flash on one or two cards.

farquit
farquit

Looked at Dodecapod and had an idea. Probably far too detached from Dodecapod to be considered a true throwback, but I still kinda like it.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@ZeroReborn
Yes, you are correct. I wasn't sure on keeping it, and gave my blessing for others to use it. it kinda just turned into the only fun thing for WU to do without it being some toxic control theme.
Same name?
I think the name for the keyword should be based on your set. In mine, it's in reference to how permanents past work/effect is being emulated again, much like a student taking notes from a great teacher.
If your set has a G focus, I think a term like, Renew, would fit better to reflect nature.
One major thing to note though, my keyword is still instant speed, which I feel allows for more crafty interactions like pic related.

Evilember
Evilember

@likme
How about Resound?

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

This looked better before Captivating Crew was released. Idea is this guy, who's a ghost, possesses people and takes control of them.

@MPmaster
Well, glad you like it.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@lostmypassword
and gave my blessing for others to use it.
I will go for it then! I'm finding it a lot better than my previous mechanic.

it kinda just turned into the only fun thing for WU to do without it being some toxic control theme.
That is probably a good call. Not sure if it was yours (and maybe it wasn't), but someone posted a UW bundle with 12+ cards and they all had toxic control, which was heading to a really bad path. People need to be extra careful when designing mechanics for UW so you don't run into this toxic control theme.

I think the name for the keyword should be based on your set. In mine, it's in reference to how permanents past work/effect is being emulated again, much like a student taking notes from a great teacher.
I guess I'll be rolling solo on the name thingy.

One major thing to note though, my keyword is still instant speed, which I feel allows for more crafty interactions like pic related.
Like I commented before, I'm wording it with "Activate this only anytime you could cast this card". That way, I usually have sorcery speed, but if I throw some flash in the equation, the ability will also have it.

@Evilember
How about Resound?
Hmmm, I think so far the best one with the Re- suffix was Recur. Its simple, short, generic and fitting. What you think of it?

Treetop Swindlers
If that is the symbol of your set, I recommend changing it. Waaay too similar to the expansion symbol of Alliances.

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Flameblow
Recur
A bit flavor anemic for my taste, but if it works for you, I say go for it. Reminder text says reminisce, though.
Set symbol
Thanks, but I'm aware of the similarities, and the current symbol fits my themes well enough that I'm okay with them. The differences between the two are enough to differentiate, I feel.

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Flameblow
Your keyword's reminder text seems to be out of date. It say "Reminisce only anytime..."

Besides that, I would just say it's important to treat the Recur effects like over costed spells. Generally the creature should tend to be more costly then the trigger.

Bunch of toxic WU effects
I generally have been posting with my keyword on, and also avoid hard control, grindy effects sense I'm a draft player and know very well how unfun those games can get.

Cards
Prodigy feels a little pushed. Maybe make it's Recur cost be UU?

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@RavySnake
A bit flavor anemic for my taste, but if it works for you, I say go for it. Reminder text says reminisce, though.
@eGremlin
A bit flavor anemic for my taste, but if it works for you, I say go for it. Reminder text says reminisce, though.
Yeah, I noticed. Fix it already! :)

@RavySnake
Thanks, but I'm aware of the similarities, and the current symbol fits my themes well enough that I'm okay with them.
Its similar not just because it is a flag, but because the type of flag it is and how it is pictured. How about something more like a banner? See this link for example: https:// d30y9cdsu7xlg0.cloudfront.net/png/38446-200.png

@eGremlin
Besides that, I would just say it's important to treat the Recur effects like over costed spells. Generally the creature should tend to be more costly then the trigger.
I think its fair to cost it as flashback, because the Recur basically works like flashback. You pay the cost and do an effect. Since flashback has a lot of reference, it will be a lot easier to balance.

@eGremlin
I generally have been posting with my keyword on, and also avoid hard control, grindy effects sense I'm a draft player and know very well how unfun those games can get.
Yes. Toxic control leads to toxic boredom.

@eGremlin
Prodigy feels a little pushed. Maybe make it's Recur cost be UU?
He is supposed to be a bit pushed. That is the only reason he is a rare card. Its a 1 colorless mana cheaper than Rethink, which is common. Seems like a fair push.

@eGremlin
You need to word it with flying commas thingy
[...] and has "All creatures able to block enchanted creature do so."
Or just break down into two abilities.
Enchanted creature gets +1/+1.
All creatures able to block enchanted creature do so.

Also, a lot of complexity for a common aura. I would boost it to uncommon. Consider the fact that Lure, that has only a part of this card's effect, is already uncommon for it.

happy_sad
happy_sad

I'm fucking love this Recur mechanic. Its awesome!

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

going-to-bed bump

Lunatick
Lunatick

Saw the art, decided to make a card. Hopefully this reads well enough. Basically Massive Raid, but it deals more damage for each Archer you control.

w8t4u
w8t4u

Had an idea to use counters to create a growing effect. Not entirely sure what it should be though. Just a growing +X/-X?

Another idea is to incorporate coinflips. Maybe... flip, creature damages itself or its controller?

@Lunatick
Another one.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@w8t4u
Last one for now.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@Firespawn
OK, I lied. Here's the last one. Now I'm going to bed.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@happy_sad
This is quite flavorful, but it feels like it could be cheaper to cast initially. Pretty cool card.

@Stark_Naked
I feel like the token should be ETB but I get that for mechanical and balance reasons it can't be. It just seems like there'd be more rats living in a slum that's still around than one that's been destroyed.

@Lunatick
What's the green for? It's a neat card aside from the odd tribal thing, though it does make sense. I feel like it needs flying hate in there somewhere because green, but that might overcomplicate things.

@w8t4u

I feel like this would be more red if it was "noncreature spell".

@Firespawn
Draft functional/10.

@Supergrass
Hm. This feels green on initial viewing. I'm just not sure about it. What's it based on, if anything?

farquit
farquit

@Supergrass
4 mana Emrakul.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@VisualMaster
his or her
change that to "their". Its shorter and more descriptive.
Like the effect though

SniperGod
SniperGod

@cum2soon
Go home Kazy you're drunk.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Fuzzy_Logic
Yeah, I think so t-

Snarelure
Snarelure

Inspired by this deck:
http://www.mtgvault.com/mtgblackman/decks/yidris-negru-triblar/

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@Snarelure
for as long as it is your commander

can it stop being my commander mid-game?no.
i am not sure if it's the best wording for it.

farquit
farquit

I didn't realize how difficult it is to find good art for this card.

@Skullbone
Focus Fire
I feel like I needed it because Archers are a G tribe. And I feel the same way about Flying hate. I'd actually really like Archers as pure pingers, but instead they tend to be just creatures with Reach.

Random Mutation
OK.

Boarding Action
Thanks.

Strange Summons
Uh, Polymorph. I thought that would've been kinda obvious. True, it doesn't have the sac of Polymorph, but I liked the idea of being able to get something at random.

card
Seems... actually, I'm not sure. It seems pretty good at first glance, but looking at it some more, I'm starting to question it. Tapping creatures can be used her to prevent creatures from blocking when you attack. But the problem with this is that you need to have your own creatures tapped in order to really use it, so already you don't have as many creatures to attack with.

@farquit
6 mana then?

@Spazyfool
Not him, but what better wording is there? The idea is that you can only have infinite Gray Ogres if that thing is your Commander, but not if you just shove it into your deck as one of the 99, or even if you play in a non-Commander format with this included.

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Skullbone
I feel like the token should be ETB but I get that for mechanical and balance reasons it can't be. It just seems like there'd be more rats living in a slum that's still around than one that's been destroyed.
Actually, my idea for the card's flavor is that the rats live there while the slum is around, but when you demolish, all the rats and other pests run away from their hiding.

Obeisance Angel
How about adding flash to this guy? I feel like an angel should be usually more defensive than offensive, and being able to only tap enemy creatures during your turn means its would be either useless, or used offensively. (though if you have already tapped all your creatures, there's none left to attack). Also, with flash it has a lot more synergy with vigilance (which is a white's evergreen). You might need to adjust the cost a bit, but I think its worth it.

Playboyize
Playboyize

Not even entirely sure how I came up with this.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@Playboyize
Just noticed now that maybe this whole set super-heroes set could have transform representing alter ego.

farquit
farquit

@happy_sad
I've had people suggest this to me many times over the years, but I've always thought it would just make things overly complex. I do use DFC at times, though that's usually used to mark an extreme charge in a character. This is usually physical, as with most of the Hulks, but sometimes psychological, such as with Two-Face and Mister Negative. I remember there was another guy making CO cards based on Batman Beyond who used DFC a whole lot, but I haven't seen him in a very long time.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@farquit
Then I personally find it weird to name all cards "<Name>, <Superhero Name>". Seems like all your cards end up being with an extra wordy title. For instance, I would call Daredevil just... Daredevil.

@SniperGod
Fucking WotC, always stealing my card ideas.

5mileys
5mileys

@SniperGod
@Nojokur
kek

JunkTop
JunkTop

@Nojokur
You have to consider legacy characters, where different people have the same superhero name. I currently have three cards for people named The Flash, and two cards for people named Spider-Man. I try to use different aliases for characters so this doesn't happen (eg. Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson have both been Batman, but the latter is Nightwing for my cards), but sometime you don't have that option, like with Jay Garrick and Barry Allen, who've both always been The Flash. And I don't plan on doing them anytime soon, but you'd have the same problem with the Green Lantern Corps or the Nova Corps, where everyone is a Green Lantern or a Nova, respectively.

@5mileys
Reminds me a bit of Footsteps of the Goryo.

WebTool
WebTool

First time posting a card, be gentle

@farquit
Seems odd that blue gets a flying while green gets reach which is just worse

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@JunkTop
You have to consider legacy characters, where different people have the same superhero name. I currently have three cards for people named The Flash, and two cards for people named Spider-Man. I try to use different aliases for characters so this doesn't happen (eg. Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson have both been Batman, but the latter is Nightwing for my cards), but sometime you don't have that option, like with Jay Garrick and Barry Allen, who've both always been The Flash. And I don't plan on doing them anytime soon, but you'd have the same problem with the Green Lantern Corps or the Nova Corps, where everyone is a Green Lantern or a Nova, respectively.
Oh, I haven't taken that in consideration. But again, seems weird to include all of them on the same set. Correct me if I'm wrong (not a big comic fan here), but most of these cases don't happen simultaneously, does it? Is there 3 Flashes at the same time period on the same timeline, or are they from different time period/lines? Also, you could come up with creative ways to deal with -- for instance, instead of just calling him Spider-Man, one could be "The Incredible Spider-Man" and the other could be something else in that line.

Or at very least, only do this extra wordy names for these cases that need it. For instance, if there's only one Daredevil, I would just call him Daredevil.

Reminds me a bit of Footsteps of the Goryo.
Didn't know this one, but mine is a bit more specific than that, because on Goryo's, the creature lasts until the end of the turn, so static abilities are more relevant and, if it has haste, it can attack. On mine, is sort of a 1-second reanimation, just enough to trigger abilities related to entering the battlefield or/and dying. Though If Footsteps of the Goryo didn't had such lore-specific name, I perhaps would consider just reprinting it on my set instead of making a new card.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@WebTool
First time posting a card, be gentle
Here are my notes:

Its interesting to give prowess to a creature with negative power, like WotC did with Char-Rumbler.
Though I think this idea would be more fitting for a true Prowess card, blue/red style.
In addition, the only true white part of it is the life gain, which is already sort of meh (and could be replaced by Lifelink).
Also, toughness too high for my liking.

But again, I think this would be more kick-ass in blue/red, specially if the effect was something like this:
Whenever ~ deals combat damage to a player, draw that many cards and ~ deals that much damage to target creature.
Because something that makes me feel your card is off is that it sort of sells itself of having an effect that is blue and white, but in reality the card is a lot more blue and the blue effect is a lot more stronger than the white one. If you still want to stick with it, I would change the cost to something like 1WUU, to make clear the card is more blue than white.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

I know Investigate exists, I'm going out of my way to not use it.

@BlogWobbles
But again, seems weird to include all of them on the same set.
I guess I should clarify that this isn't a legit set, this is never going to be drafted. I'm just converting CO stuff into cards for fun.

most of these cases don't happen simultaneously, does it?
Usually, no. And again, this doesn't happen a lot, usually I make cards with different aliases. But then we go back to Jay Garrick and Barry Allen. The only alias they've ever had, AFAIK, is The Flash. And they've both existed in the same time in the same universe for a very long time.

Also, you could come up with creative ways to deal with -- for instance, instead of just calling him Spider-Man, one could be "The Incredible Spider-Man" and the other could be something else in that line.
But that only works if those characters have adjectival titles. There are plenty in Marvel, but what about DC? The Fast Flash? The Speeding Flash? Besides, wouldn't this also make the name wordy? I thought you were trying to get rid of that.

Or at very least, only do this extra wordy names for these cases that need it.
But then it would just be inconsistent.

@WebTool
Well, the U token was based on something Wizards made and it had Flying. I don't really know what else I could do to differentiate U and G though. Ranger is a pretty iconic class, and bows usually are represented with Flying. I guess I could change the U one. Hexproof?

card
Take off Prowess, make the power 2, possibly lower toughness, and make it more expensive. Compare/contrast Drogskol Reaver.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Sir_Gallonhead
Whoops. This card is supposed to creates Clues that scale with its power. Though that was a holdover from an older design, so maybe it's better this way?

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@SniperGod
This was the original design but I felt it was kind of lacking, and since it was supposed to be an Innistrad spirit I went with adding white. I considered red but thought it wouldn't fit the flavour. I'm thinking mono-blue is best now but I would like some other ability to replace the lifegain (and perhaps to let me reduce the toughness, since I only made it so high to make it baseline playable in a vacuum)

@Sir_Gallonhead
I'd like to preserve the negative power gimmick if possible since it's from a negative power/toughness contest. I think I'd rather remove white than make it too similar to an existing card

You could make either of them hexproof, though it's a lot stronger than reach. Prowess for blue maybe? It fits a Wizard better than flying imo

likme
likme

@Spazyfool
This was the original design but I felt it was kind of lacking, and since it was supposed to be an Innistrad spirit I went with adding white. I considered red but thought it wouldn't fit the flavour. I'm thinking mono-blue is best now but I would like some other ability to replace the lifegain (and perhaps to let me reduce the toughness, since I only made it so high to make it baseline playable in a vacuum)
I like this version better, though I would still roll with lower toughness. What about -1/4? Because I right now also feel that -2 means that you need at least 3 spells to draw 1 card. I think -1/4 would be more balanced/playable.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Spazyfool
Replace Prowess with something similar that uses +1/+1 counters then. Do you really want to cast three noncreature spells every turn to draw a single card?

Adventuring Party
Eh, I was thinking of Prowess, but I'm kinda unsure about it. I think for now I'll give the Wizard Hexproof.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@farquit
A party full of humans
BOOORRRRIIINNNGG

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

New set symbol. Not exactly the same as the last, but this was a lot easier to make, so yeah.

Added reminder text to this. Protection covers any sort of attachment, including Equipment and Fortifications, not just Auras, even though Wizards never gives Protection reminder text that mentions non-Aura attachments, for some reason. So I threw in a mention to Equipment. Not very common, but still.

@BunnyJinx
Three Humans, one Orc, one Elf. I'm still looking for good art for this, so I might actually change the race types later. I'd prefer to keep the race types and abilities as-is though. (Except for Wizard, already changed that from Flying to Hexproof.)

card
Whenever another creature dies, exile it. If you do, its controller gains 1 life and you put a +1/+1 counter on ~.
Seems OK I think. Also
it's
is a contraction of "it is".
its
is the possessive form of "it".

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

Had an idea.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Crazy_Nice
Sorry for insisting on the issue, but this would be a lot better if your super-hero cards used transform, or if you simply had a different card for the super-hero and his alter ego (for example, having a card for Spider Man and one for Peter Park). Since most of your set is already legendary, it makes hard to pull off a card like this.

Also, this card is OP as fuck. I think the first ability should be:
As additional cost to cast ~, return a nonlegendary, nontoken creature you control to its owner's hand.

takes2long
takes2long

@BlogWobbles
Dude, seriously, I've heard the argument for DFCs for years now. It's going to take a lot to convince me to change my stance on it now.

a different card for the super-hero and his alter ego
God, that sounds even worse.

card
OK, changes made.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Booteefool
Why would anyone ever use this over Evolving Wilds? And why is it uncommon?

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Emberfire
It taps for colorless, silly!

whereismyname
whereismyname

@Booteefool
I've always liked the idea behind fetches that give you mana but cost more to fetch

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Emberfire
Jeez, calm down satan.

idontknow
idontknow

@TalkBomber
And? It doesn't make up for the severe downgrade from Wilds. Doing a search, it turns out the Panorama lands from Alara are strictly better than this. They're common, tap for C, and tutor for basic lands of three types with an ability that only costs 1.

card
Should be discard, then draw.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@Emberfire
Why would anyone ever use this over Evolving Wilds?
The problem with lands like Evolving Wilds is that it has no other option but to fetch a tapped land. Cards like mine, give you the option to add colorless if you don't feel like fetching right now. The difference between a land being able to add mana when it enters the battlefield and not is huuuge. Yes, the fetching isn't that great, but it doesn't rely only on it.

And why is it uncommon?
For reference, see Terminal Moraine. Its very similar to my card, though the difference is while my card only fetches Plains and Swamps, it doesn't restrict to basic lands, so you can get rare dual-lands with it.

@whereismyname
Me too. It could for a nice cycle, though my card is a stand-alone land.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@idontknow
They're common, tap for C, and tutor for basic lands of three types with an ability that only costs 1.
tutor for basic lands
basic lands
basic
There is the difference.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@Firespawn
A standalone fetchland? So it's a land cycle like future sight where each land is different? Do you have the other lands?

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@Firespawn
Cards like mine, give you the option to add colorless if you don't feel like fetching right now.
That's a big "if"

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

Reposting from last thread. Essentially a first attempt to translate Necrons on Mtg, with focus on energy counters.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Deadlyinx
A standalone fetchland? So it's a land cycle like future sight where each land is different?
No cycle, just this card.

Do you have the other lands?
Yes, but nothing remotely similar to that one.

@Raving_Cute
That's a big "if"
That is a really common case. For instance, if you just drew this land or for some reason is just playing it now and need exactly all your lands to make your play, is preferably not to fetch on that turn and do your play. Cards like Evolving Wilds fuck this up because you are forced to wait 1 turn to use it.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@VisualMaster
Unless you're going to use energy counters for other tribes in WH40K, I recommend not using it.

Reactivate
Corrupted
???

Biosurrection
Not a great name. And I have to question why you're using both Devoid and Tribal here. The reason MTG made Devoid was so it could track colorless things without having to say Eldrazi.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@farquit
Strange Summons
The sac is a big part of it, and even though red gets Polymorph effects now, green is still the predominant color for digging for creatures like that I'm pretty sure.
Party
I like this version better.
Angel
It was suggested to add flash, which I'm going to do. The idea was that white usually has the most creatures, so the mass tapping doesn't affect you nearly as much as it would your opponent except maybe in a mirror match. But Flash does add some oomph to the card and I like that idea. I just didn't do it because I don't like adding flash to things outside green and blue if it's not necessary to make the card play well.

@eGremlin
Going with your flash idea, thanks.
cards
Why the tribal requirement on the Spirit? I assume it's to help mitigate the fact that it's actually an otherwise efficient body but it doesn't really work; a 3/3 for 4 is always efficient and anything it has beyond that is gravy. This probably should cost 4W and not have the restriction. The Doppelganger would be way more hilarious with the old Legend rules but it would also be way too good. Witch might be too good as well, especially since your set has a ton of "black" cards. I feel like the reach anthem on the hive is too good too, looking at Spidersilk Armor. The +0/+1 isn't much of anything, so essentially the anthem is worth 2G. Yours is way, way better. Convoker is probably fine, and Goliath probably shouldn't have Hexproof in addition to the really great counter effect.

Every color is getting one of these Convoke creatures; here's black's. I may have overdone the casting cost on it by 1. Thoughts?

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@RumChicken
Cards like Evolving Wilds fuck this up because you are forced to wait 1 turn to use it.
It's also been reprinted numerous times (along with the card it's a functional reprint of) and included in countless decks (tens of thousands of Commander decks at least, according to EDHRec). Apparently most people don't mind.

I actually decided to look at bit more into cards similar to yours and found two, Terminal Moraine, and its functional reprint, Warped Landscape. I'd say see if you can find out how those did then use that as a basis to work on your card.

Soft_member
Soft_member

Why the tribal requirement on the Spirit? I assume it's to help mitigate the fact that it's actually an otherwise efficient body but it doesn't really work; a 3/3 for 4 is always efficient and anything it has beyond that is gravy. This probably should cost 4W and not have the restriction.
I'm using Restoration Angel as reference, and it targets a non-Angel creature. I guess the reason for that is because, if you have two of it, its an infinite loop for white creatures entering the battlefield, which can easily lead to easy win combos.

Witch might be too good as well, especially since your set has a ton of "black" cards.
I've based it on Nightshade Assassin, which has a similar ability. But the idea is that this works nicely because of the fact there's extra black cards around.

I feel like the reach anthem on the hive is too good too, looking at Spidersilk Armor. The +0/+1 isn't much of anything, so essentially the anthem is worth 2G.
The +0/+1 is actually quite relevant, but I think you are right nevertheless. I will increase its cost to 3.

Goliath probably shouldn't have Hexproof in addition to the really great counter effect.
Ridgescale Tusker is an uncommon 5/5 that has the same ETB effect for 3GG. I want the beetle to be a strong rare. Though I'm seriously considering removing the hexproof and raise the P/T to 5/5, to look more like Deadbridge Goliath.

Bloodtithe Demon
Its nice when you get an art that fits so well with the card's mechanics/flavor. Also, differently from the white one, this makes more sense because you don't give a fuck whether the sacrificed creatures were tapped because you are sacrificing them. (on the white one, tapping your enemy's creature was a bit dull since you also tapped yours).

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

Repost with new art, which I like a bit better than the last art, since it shows what are supposed to be the tokens and even some gold in the corner. For those who ask, the creatures are Allies because that's the first thing that jumped into my head for standard RPG adventure parties, which the tokens are supposed to represent.

@Lord_Tryzalot
Strange Summons
I'll just add G then. But what about the cost? Another user said it was too powerful. It's sitting at 4RR right now. Jeez, but then I might was well make it an enchantment with a sac clause. Yeah, I think I might do that actually.

Party
Cool, though I did change the Wizards to Hexproof instead of Flying.

Angel
I was kinda thinking that too. Seems like a good decision.

card
Very nice. Though I don't think you need the "then" in there.

Evilember
Evilember

@Burnblaze
It's also been reprinted numerous times (along with the card it's a functional reprint of) and included in countless decks (tens of thousands of Commander decks at least, according to EDHRec). Apparently most people don't mind.
Basic lands have more reprints and feature in almost deck but doesn't mean they are the top choice for lands. There's a reason why Evolving Wilds cost like 5 cents, while fetchlands like Marsh Flats cost 24 dollars. Again, for a land, entering the battlefield tapped or not is a HUGE turning point. Its what makes the difference between a common land and a rare land. If there was an Evolving Wild that brought an untapped basic land, I'm quite sure it would be one of the most used lands ever. In addition, the fact it only brings basic lands is also a huge turn-off because makes it unable to work with high-tier lands like shock lands and the original dual lands. Out of the reasons why Marsh Flats costs roughly 400+ times more than Evolving Wild, the it can generate mana on the first turn plus the fact it doesn't limit to basic lands is definitely the two main reasons.

I actually decided to look at bit more into cards similar to yours and found two, Terminal Moraine, and its functional reprint, Warped Landscape.
Yes, I did my card based on Terminal Moraine, because I used to use it when I was younger. Its nice when all you want is a tiny splash.

likme
likme

@Soft_member
Feels way too good for 4 mana. The fact it hits non-basics is why.

takes2long
takes2long

@likme
Feels way too good for 4 mana. The fact it hits non-basics is why.
Yes, but at the same time, it doesn't let you choose what lands. I thought about limiting only to basic lands, but I concluded it would be either too strong or too weak depending on how much your deck relies on self-mill. If your deck has only a handful of basic lands, this card could easily eat up 10 to 20 cards of your deck, which is a huge boost for graveyard-oriented decks. Hitting any land guarantees it will have a less swingy effect, working sort of similarly on decks with a high amount of nonbasic lands and decks with only basic lands.

I might be wrong, though. But I do think that hitting only basic lands would make it a way too strong source of self-mill.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@likme
(forgot to comment the card)
I just can't pass that art. Seems like a joke art. The effect itself is cool, but the artwork totally ruins the card in my opinion.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@RumChicken
That's because the last time he posted it, it was way more gay.

@likme
Source on image? Tried searching myself but I couldn't get anything.

card
Reminds me of Duskmantle Seer. Not sure if this should be so cheap. Though it does impulse the card rather than draw it.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@takes2long
In your set, I think it needs to cost 5 to put 2 nonbasics in play and mill X. If this was a set that didn't care much at all your yard interaction, 4 would be fine.
I think a side thing to consider is, why does your set need an explosive vegetation effect? Does your set have very extreme multi-color themes?
I bring this up, because in design we don't see ramp effects, or any theme for that matter, randomly. We got EV in the Khans block because it was so color intensive, not because they just felt like slapping it in.

@RumChicken
I'm sticking to the art for personal reasons.
I'm surprised by take of the art being a joke. Is it like, the fact it's a minotaur?

@Stark_Naked
It was way more gay
Sadly unnecessarily lewd cards only get replies if they got girls with big ol tibbles, so I recropped it and such.

Source
Lemmy dig through some chat logs to see if I can find it...

Not sure if it should be so cheap
I figured this would come up. I wasn't sure either. We rarely see bobs from Wizards now that don't have some big hoop to deal with, so I figured it's effect not being true draw, and being for all players would make it be fine. I might make it a 3/2 for 1RB.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@PurpleCharger
Unless you're going to use energy counters for other tribes in WH40K, I recommend not using it.
It references their peculiar economy system in DoW1 - they use power as their only resource (the secondary one, to boot), whereas all other factions have to use requisition as well.
To be honest, I didn't plan to make a real set at all in the first place - just making some spooky skeletons and some, but don't worry I'll make sure to make other power themed cards for other sides as well.
Reactivate
Is the closest thing I've found to make Necrons function with energy counters instead of mana costs. Again, another reference of their economy system on DoW1. Note that they never hit the field if their Reactivate cost is not paid (they are exiled instead), to prevent ETB abuses. The "turned face-up" clause is aganist manifestation mechanics, as it would be too easy to cheat them otherwise (they still cost 0 mana!)

Lore wise, Necrons are Living Metal units. They are in an eternal slumber, and you must "feed" them with energy to reanimate them.

Corrupted
Supposedly new keyword, prevents permanents to be sacrificed (eg. Assault Suit). Lore wise, it references things too impure to be qualified as gift to gods, hence not worth to sacrifice.

Biosurrection
I'm aware of that, it's a name adopted only because it's part of a cycle of Necron support cards. Infact, one of them is called Biotransference (their process that transformed them from humanoids into horrible machines of destruction), the other one Biocycling (mass Entomb for artifact creatures, also you get same amount of E). I can change them in the future in case of better suggestions.

Devoid is here because of their nature, they do not belong to any ecosystem. Also comboes with Metal Life, a support aganist Infect (Necrons are immune from poison, another reference of their resistance vs Tyranids) and Solemnity (which would single-handlely destroy this tribe otherwise).

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@Firespawn
Is the closest thing I've found to make Necrons function with energy counters instead of mana costs.
Seriously?
As an additional cost to cast ~, pay EE.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@Nude_Bikergirl
As an additional cost to cast ~, pay EE.
You can still cheat them with Manifest this way
Turn it face up any time for its mana cost if it’s a creature card.
Those EE aren't tecnically part of mana cost, nor they never will.

MPmaster
MPmaster

what is the least amount of text needed to make a creature completely unable to be killed/dealt/interacted with, BUT still function as a normal creature (i.e. not just uncounterable norin) ?

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Emberfire
Sadly unnecessarily lewd cards only get replies if they got girls with big ol tibbles, so I recropped it and such.
Probably, but at the same time, you only posted it once. At least, one time that I could find. Cards don't always get feedback, let me tell you. Don't get discouraged.

card
Seems cool, but since it triggers for every creature, I'm wondering if it should be rare.

@PurpleCharger
Does Manifest exist in your set?

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@MPmaster
That's a fool's errand, and you're better off not pursuing it. There's always an answer to everything, even Norin, even Progenitus. But if you want to get this flavor of "untouchable" across, give it Indestructible and Hexproof.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@Firespawn
All existing energy cards have both ways of generating energy and ways of using it. Making a separate category of cards for each of those purposes results in a sort of parasitic two-part mechanic, like the exile-matters shit from BFZ.
I don't think you can get away with a category of cards that literally can't be cast by themselves, especially at common. I'm not even sure such a card in magic exists - Wizards could've done this with Madness, Emerge or Arcane spells, but they didn't, which is probably an indicator that there's a problem.
Also if you're still set on this mechanic, use "Reactivate EEEE" rather than "Reactivate 4E"; the latter in extremely counterintuitive given how we read mana costs

Supergrass
Supergrass

@MPmaster
@BlogWobbles
Oh, another suggestion: Make it cast from the graveyard or exile. Sure, it still dies, but it can always come back. Oh, but don't combine these two suggestions, because that would be a pain.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Spazyfool
"Reactivate 4E"; the latter in extremely counterintuitive given how we read mana costs
Just throwing this out there, yeah, I totally thought that thing wanted 4 mana and one energy just glancing at it.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@Spazyfool
I'm not even sure such a card in magic exists
I think the only thing like this is Evermind.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Emberfire
In your set, I think it needs to cost 5 to put 2 nonbasics in play and mill X. If this was a set that didn't care much at all your yard interaction, 4 would be fine.
I've decided to go for a more modest ramp, reducing the cost to 1G and ramping only 1 land.

I think a side thing to consider is, why does your set need an explosive vegetation effect? Does your set have very extreme multi-color themes?
I bring this up, because in design we don't see ramp effects, or any theme for that matter, randomly. We got EV in the Khans block because it was so color intensive, not because they just felt like slapping it in.
Ramp is not only about fixing your mana, but also about increasing your mana pool. I want players to have enough mana to both player their normal cards, and also have mana left to use their Recur cards (which some have it at an extra costy mana cost). Also, I have one or two effects that require a large number of lands. But I do feel now that maybe a Rampant Growth-like effect might be a better call here.

I'm surprised by take of the art being a joke. Is it like, the fact it's a minotaur?
A very muscular minotaur wearing nothing but a hood and that thing on its crotch. Its simply not an image to be taken serious.

Disorienting Terrain
An interesting card.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Snarelure
Whoops, I stand corrected

Spamalot
Spamalot

@haveahappyday
It was less of a "I'm discouraged" and more "I'm not surprised" but yeah I feel you. The fact he's slipped into my current set with how much he synergies with BR's keyword is great.
Found the source also
https://twitter.com/RumLockerArt/status/922780481275404289

Feels like maybe a rare
I was thinking that too. Honestly I bet if we ever see propaganda printed again it'll be rare anyway.

@Firespawn
I feel a whole faction's theme being you can only cast them with energy is going to go very poorly and restrict design in toxic ways.

@TurtleCat
My set got big land count matters
Then that is a plenty good reason.

Call
I feel the flavor text could be shifted to better reflect the land count matters. Maybe,
"As my first act as king, I demand each village sends us their strongest warrior to join the guard."

Tarrasque
Sense he isn't doing anything till you hit that big number, maybe he has some over costed Lay of the Land ability to make it less frustrating to achieve?

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

Still looking for a neat idea for the black card of this cycle. So far the best I got is 1BB, "Nonblack creatures get -1/-1 as long as there are no cards in your graveyard."

@Spamalot
My set got big land count matters
Then that is a plenty good reason.
Well, it doesn't have thaaat many cards for this. Hence why I decided to shrink Rake into 1G-one-land-fetch.

I feel the flavor text could be shifted to better reflect the land count matters. Maybe,
"As my first act as king, I demand each village sends us their strongest warrior to join the guard.
The idea on the lands are not villages, but actually vassal nobles that will gather their own army when called to arms. But the flavor also helps building the fanaticism and hatred for the separatist that this Quersmo character has.

Sense he isn't doing anything till you hit that big number, maybe he has some over costed Lay of the Land ability to make it less frustrating to achieve?
My problem of having any effect like this is that doesn't really reflect well the monster. He is supposed to just be sleeping until the land count goes to 15, so that is why he's doing nothing. My original ideal was that he also can be used for effects like fighting (which my set features quite a bit). Maybe I should also throw some "where X is the highest power among creatures you control" effect and make him more useful.

Also, I've considered dropping his cost, but I'm afraid that would make him waaay too strong for 3+ players.

takes2long
takes2long

stupid word limit, couldn't fit my whole reply
@Spamalot
Arachnid Assistant
I think the second ability is waaay too specific. I would rather go for something like:
CARDNAME gets +1/+1 and as long as you control a Wizard or a Druid.

Basically, the overall idea is that effects like the one you chose makes it in a way that you need the maximum amount of druids/wizards, because it only works for them. I would avoid this kind of effects at all. Effects that goes "(if/as long as) you control a Wizard or Druid" like the one I suggested requires less druids/wizards, because only having 1 is already just enough. You can't take extra value out of it. Having 5 wizard/druids is the same as having 1, so this gives the player more flexibility to play with more non-druid/wizard things.

@AwesomeTucker
Since this is clearly a reference to good ol' Darksteel Colossus, it could simply costs 11.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@Spamalot
Found the source also
Thanks!

card
Common 1/3 with two upsides? Feels like it should be 2G. Also, why Druid? I know it's a set thing, but I've never understood it.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@Ignoramus
He might get too good for multiplayer
I think you should really consider your cards in the vacuum of how you intend the set to be used.
Is this a bunch of cards you just would want to draft? Or are these all things for some fictional standard release? If the concern of multiplayer isn't realistic, the effect it has on it shouldn't be a problem.
Also for the art, if you found something of a giant elemental it would fit a land collecting theme better, as a thought.

Utopic
I think hard- "You can't lose" effects need to be reserved to really big cards. Worship is fine becuase you can still die, but only in specific ways. Make this only deny one form of death, like from damage.

Library
Seems a bit strong. Maybe make it UU.

Inferno
fine.

Beneath
Fine.

I think this cycle needs to share a naming convention. Maybe *blank* Idealism?

@takes2long
a 2/4 with reach for 2 is too good. I think the upside being so limited is necessary sense it's already a fine card without the ability.
Sometimes cards aren't as practical or perfect as you want in a draft, and that's this card's spot.

@Nojokur
As I mentioned above, I feel only sometimes being able to use the second ability should make it fine. a 1/3 with reach can't do much but stall fliers, and will struggle to kill the 2/2 Familiar Bird tokens swooping around.
Why Wizards OR druids
I wanted to make Sultai witches, and a nature oriented witch felt more akin to a druid then to a wizard. That's why the Witch creatures that seem more concerned with nature are Druids, while those concerned with the knowledge to get are Wizards.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Soft_member
Spirit
That makes sense; didn't consider that.
witch
Recursion is a huuuuge deal and I think you are undervaluing it here. Cards that feature it are always costed with that in mind in terms of taxing the utility. It might be okay but your set is going to have a lot of black so you should be very mindful of it in playtesting.
+0/+1
In terms of costing it's not even a half a mana when pricing an ability. If you made a +0/+1 cantrip it'd be terrible. So combined with the reach there is some relevance sure, but it's the reach that's the feature and where the predominance of the cost comes from.
goliath
And
Ridgescale Tusker doesn't have hexproof, which is one of the most powerful keywords. Also CMC5 and CMC4 and very different costs in terms of tempo; CMC5 is a 'finisher', whereas CMC4 is not going to have as powerful of an effect on the board, typically.
rake
I agree that this hitting nonbasics is strange and feels a bit too good. Maybe make it cost 2GG at least to compensate? Also maybe limiting the number of revealed cards to be a fairly high number but not undefined, would be a good idea.

@PackManBrainlure
Summons
CMC6? Gamekeeper is CMC4, and requires a sac outlet or to be killed somehow, so I'd say CMC6 is good for a reliable version of that effect.
Party
I noticed. Probably a decent change, though Flying was okay too.
Angel
Great.
Demon
Changed, thanks.
Dragon
How many Ally tokens? I assume three? I agree with the flavor, by the way. Costing is... hm. I might say 5/5 here, but 6/6 might be okay.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

Going to be posting some art I found on art station, that according to the post was commissioned by WoTC.
Would like to see everyone's personal takes on what they could be as cards.

askme
askme

@Boy_vs_Girl
pic 2

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@askme
Final commission.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Boy_vs_Girl
@askme
@Burnblaze
Cool pics. I always appreciate having more art for my cards

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Ignoramus
how about an entomb type effect to search your library for a card and put it into your graveyard if it's empty during your upkeep? Or some other tutor effect

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Boy_vs_Girl
This one looks like it would have been in Tarkir. It also looks like the most likely one to be on an actual card. I'll take a crack at it.

@askme
Fucking weird looking. Eldrazi maybe?

@Burnblaze
Also smacks of Eldrazi to me.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@askme
@Burnblaze
Art in use. First is Thrull, second is Eldrazi (Spawn, I think).

Spamalot
Spamalot

@askme
@Burnblaze
@Dreamworx
Oh right, art in use on tokens, not on cards.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@happy_sad
I think you should really consider your cards in the vacuum of how you intend the set to be used.
Is this a bunch of cards you just would want to draft? Or are these all things for some fictional standard release? If the concern of multiplayer isn't realistic, the effect it has on it shouldn't be a problem.
I might actually play this as a draft, but I'm making it as a fictional standard release. That is why I don't want to completely ignore multiplayer

Also for the art, if you found something of a giant elemental it would fit a land collecting theme better, as a thought.
Tarrasque is a huge monster that eats everything. Its a monster from DND that I wanted to bring to MtG. That is why I can't go for an Elemental-looking art

I think hard- "You can't lose" effects need to be reserved to really big cards. Worship is fine becuase you can still die, but only in specific ways. Make this only deny one form of death, like from damage.
The idea here is that its unstable. Anything your opponent destroys will go to your graveyard and take away your immortality. Also, the fact it doesn't prevent damage or life loss means that you can still be dropped to 0 or less. Then all your opponent needs to do is kill 1 card and you instantly lose the game.

Seems a bit strong. Maybe make it UU.
I'm trying to avoid many colored cost on blue/green/red, but might be necessary. 3 mana seems to much, but 1U seems indeed too strong.

@RumChicken
Recursion is a huuuuge deal and I think you are undervaluing it
Right now I'm valuing them mostly on what I think should be, but I will eventually revise their Recur cost using flashback spells for reference.

+0/+1
I've increased the cost of the card (and its Recur) to 2G.

goliath
I think I will leave hexproof out then. Though I liked hexproof on him, makes him a reaaally solid drop.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Dreamworx
Son of a bitch

Spamalot
Spamalot

@hairygrape
recursion
Well playtesting will tell you for sure.
+0/+1
Yeah I saw that. I was just pressing my point I guess.
Goliath
I think he'll play fine without it. If you need to give him something else, give him Daunt.

Blue Convoke rare.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@happy_sad
I wanted to make Sultai witches, and a nature oriented witch felt more akin to a druid then to a wizard. That's why the Witch creatures that seem more concerned with nature are Druids, while those concerned with the knowledge to get are Wizards.
If you're going to have different tribes like this, I think they should be distinct from each other and not use the same stuff.

@RumChicken
Summons
So, 4RG for the spell? OK.

Dragon
Damn. Yeah, three. I'm actually pretty confident about where it is now since I've gotten a lot of feedback for it already that makes this look like it's in the right place.

@Boy_vs_Girl
What does everyone think?

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@Nude_Bikergirl
Summons
Yeah sure, though maybe, MAYBE you could get away with 2RGG.
Shimmerwing
Costing and everything seems fine.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@Nude_Bikergirl
You shouldn't have stuff that cares about multiple tribes
I really don't think this will be an issue sense the Familiar creatures and the few non-creature effects caring are the only instants of a tribal theme. I don't feel like trying to slice my current card base for it into two distinct factions.

MPmaster
MPmaster

Original idea was each player chose a creature card in his or her graveyard that you recurred to your side, but that seemed kinda weak, so now you choose.

@PackManBrainlure
are the only instants of a tribal them
*instances
But now I'm starting to wonder why you're doing it at all.

card
Art reminds me a bit of Sword and Sworcery. But the -3/-0 isn't G. And it feels weird for a Wizard or Druid to Fight, but that could just be me.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@MPmaster
But now I'm starting to wonder why you're doing it at all.
Have you heard of fun?

idontknow
idontknow

@Ignoramus
You're making a set. There's a bit more to set design than what's fun. I think it would be in your interest to create a few more cards that contribute to this Wizard/Druid tribal. Though it is pretty hard to judge without seeing more cards. Wait, why do you and the Futureshifted guy not post a bunch of cards in an image? It's really hard to judge cards in a set when we only see a few at a time. Do like Time user does, get all your commons of a color, make them a single image with PhotoJoiner, and post that.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@idontknow
I think it would be in your interest to create a few more cards that contribute to this Wizard/Druid tribal
I already have a decent number of cards for the faction.

@idontknow
why do you and the Futureshifted guy not post a bunch of cards in an image?
I can't speak for him, but it's because I don't feel I have enough cards yet to justify big posts at once.

massdebater
massdebater

@idontknow
set collages
Yeah I can't wait to really kick out my commons so I can do this. Now that it seems my mechanics are set, I can really start working on cards. That's usually the only reason I'll post singleton commons when making a set; to check my keywords and mechanics and make sure they are good to go, and actually work on commons to begin with. After that, as a rule I'll only post uncommons and up singleton style.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@RumChicken
Minotaur
That's a fucking human don't you lie to me.
Besides that, it feels a little too strong with haste and trample. I'd drop one of the keywords.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@massdebater
Besides that, it feels a little too strong with haste and trample. I'd drop one of the keywords.
Yeah, thought so. I think I'll drop the Haste.

card
Wait... how about changing it so that if you tutor two lands with the same land type, you put both of them onto the battlefield tapped? I'll understand it if you think that's too strong though.

@massdebater
Oh yeah, I forgot about you. Er, sorry about that, kinda hard to keep track of three different sets. So, what should we call you? I don't know enough about your set to make that a name for you, and I can't make a name out of your set symbol either. What's it supposed to be anyway?

card
Reverse millstrike? Seems OK, I suppose.

@Poker_Star
And what should we call you? Druid user? And what's your set symbol?

w8t4u
w8t4u

@massdebater
@Supergrass
Oh, and kudos for actually using a set skeleton. No idea why the others aren't.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@Supergrass
What's it supposed to be anyway?
It's the main glyph etched into the artifact that's the crux of all the events in this set but which only has a working name at the moment: the Truthstone. Fun fact: I'll have to modify existing art with my mad shooping skills to add it since I'm too poor to commission something. You can call me whatever you want; the set is based on religious themes. I wanted to explore what religion might look like in all five colors. White and Black are obvious and will be nothing terribly new. Red and Green have a bit of precedence but there are new things to explore too. Blue's going to be the untreaded ground; it should be fun. We'll see if the flavor comes through or not. Kinda like how you're not allowed to choose your own callsign, I'd be loathe to choose my own 'name' as it were. I've been around and worked on sets before but I don't think I'm remarkable enough of a poster to deserve some kind of ongoing identifier. So just tack something on me I guess, if you feel the need to.
Mage
Pretty good. I don't really like the RRRRR cost on the recursion though; I realize it screams to be played in monored but playability is also a concern. I'd make it cost 4RR myself. I know that's a higher CMC but making it easier to use would also up the cost slightly.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@w8t4u
Thanks. As I said, old hat, so it's the very first thing I do when starting a set. Tedious as hell but worth it. I used to have a bunch of premade skeletons but with the shift in set sizes putting them at almost 300 cards each now, I had to change them to accommodate the new set composition standards. Wasn't too bad since I already had skeletons that were in the 220 card range to work off of.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@Lord_Tryzalot
Well, sounds interesting. And I could definitely see the different colors looking at religion. Blue especially could be interesting, focusing on the knowledge religion tries to teach, then maybe some of them reject it, perhaps because they can see it's not reflective of reality. R and G I think would be more about emotion, though G could also be togetherness. I think W would be the same, with both W and B focusing on the social/political aspects.

Mage
Sounds good.

@PurpleCharger
Just curious, has the three-and-one model changed how you approach set design? How do you feel about it?

Bidwell
Bidwell

@New_Cliche
Just curious, has the three-and-one model changed how you approach set design? How do you feel about it?
Not him, but shouldn't that only matter if he's designing blocks or whatever the equivalent is now? And no one here's designing blocks.

5mileys
5mileys

@Bidwell
whatever the equivalent is now
There is no real equivalent of blocks now. Wizards has said future sets could have a few released consecutively that have the same setting and mechanics, but nothing's set in stone.

And no one here's designing blocks.
Time user called. He says he wants you to look at the two two-set blocks he's made.

hairygrape
hairygrape

new to this. thoughts?

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@New_Cliche
sounds interesting
I hope that's the case.
three-and-one
I honestly like it and hope it does well. I think allowing themselves plenty of time to tell the stories they want will make for better sets overall, and I think their stepping back from the Gatewatch a tad was a good move too. Thanks for listening, WotC. I also think it will improve draft overall, since you won't have weird little vestigial sets that need support from the other sets in the block to draft well. That just makes things feel better. I also welcome the return of Core sets.

For us as custom card makers, if we choose to do sets, and we choose to do sets the same size as WotC is doing, it really doesn't change too much I don't think. A lot of us are blessed if we can even make a small set, let alone a full-sized one, so managing a single 270 card set is an achievement, and managing another one to continue the story? That's an even bigger deal. But we're not really bound to how WotC does things, though most of us here seem to at least pay heed to the status quo. Still I think it does change how we can look at the initial task of setmaking; before you had to think "oh man, if I do this, and I want to do a block, which is the standard, I have to do ANOTHER big set and then a small set... holy shit!" but now we can just worry about everything standing relatively alone in terms of mechanics and story. That's relieving, to be honest.

Personally, I'll be ecstatic if I manage to finish this; I'd be my first full-size set completed. But I'm gonna give it a go, and take it slow. I've learned a lot about failure from my previous tries, and a lot about picking the thread's collective brains before striking out on the design path by ironing out my mechanics and stuff first so I don't have issues cropping up when I'm 100 cards deep (this has happened before).

Knight
Vigilance in monoblack?

likme
likme

@hairygrape
Whenever a creature dies, its controller creates three tapped 1/1 black Zombie creature tokens.
Seems like too much for the cost. Zombie tokens are almost always 2/2. You're using the color indicator (the black dot on the left), but that should only be used when the color of the card doesn't match its mana cost (the Pact cards from Future Sight have mana costs of 0, the backside of Transform cards have no mana costs).

Inmate
Inmate

@likme
How about?

FastChef
FastChef

@BunnyJinx
Yeah, I'm looking forward to the new sets too. And especially the new core sets. Most people don't really care too much about them, but I've always liked them, and was disappointed when they retired them with M15.

Vigilance in monoblack?
Damn, can't believe I didn't see that earlier. Holdover from a previous design. I think I'll just remove it, then change the activated ability so it doesn't tap, but you can only activate it once each turn.

@Inmate
Even worse. Make it create a single token. Oh, and it should only trigger off nontoken creatures dying. Otherwise, refer to the wording I gave you previously.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@hairygrape
If you are ever not sure on a card, it's good to just open google and search a basic idea of the card. I usually do, "mtg ..." and the effect I'm trying to do to get a realistic base in my mind.

card
If you want it to make 3 1/1 tokens, I think you should have the tokens be worms, not zombies.
The wording is quite off. It should be phrased like,
"Whenever a creature card is put into a graveyard from anywhere, its owner creates three tapped 1/1 black Zombie creature tokens."
Sub types, like Zombie, need to be capitalized in the card. Player's create tokens now, not put them into play. If you want the card to trigger from creatures being milled or discarded into the yard, the phrasing needs to be "Whenever a creature card ..." and not just creature. If you intend for it to be only from creatures dying, it should say, "Whenever a creature dies, ..." . Your current phrasing of not excluding token creatures allows this to make infinite tokens for any player that has a free sac outlet. I assume that isn't intentional. Zombie tokens are always 2/2.
Phrasing and little information about wording aside, this card seems very powerful and easily made broken for what I explained earlier.

You might want to download MSE (link is in op) and use that for editing.

@Inmate
This still has the issue of allowing it to work when a token dies, and would frankly still be really strong even if it didn't.
Tokens still enter graveyards when they die, they just stop existing right after that.

idontknow
idontknow

@Dreamworx
Player's
http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/apostro.asp

create tokens now, not put them into play.
I'm sorry, but I find it kinda funny how you're telling this guy about new syntax for tokens while at the same time using the old syntax for "battlefield".

JunkTop
JunkTop

@Dreamworx
thanks. I will see if MSE works on my mobile

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@w8t4u
Do most people not use a set skeleton? The set i had been/am? working on hasnt really gotten out of I suppose the equivalent of vision or exploratory design I suppose (top down so I have a setting idea, but not sure the exact mechanical focus I want and of the two im mostly focusing on, I haven't thought of any main mechanic Id love to be the focus, and a marquee mechanic that you solidly identify with a world is super important to me) but a set skeleton is like... a huge boon. Its practically a cheat sheet. Dont know why you wouldnt use one. The main thing I wish we also had was a list of absolute staple effects all sets need to have. Theres some obvious ones like giant growths and a black kill spell and etc. but itd be nice to see a solid list.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@JunkTop
Don't bother, it doesn't.

card
Maybe it's because you're new, but I don't get why you aren't copy-pasting the wording we're giving you. This card should say "dies" instead of talking about being put into graveyards, since "dies" is shorthand for that. You have to specify the P/T of the created tokens. It should trigger off only noncreature tokens dying. And it should say "controller" instead of "owner" because the two aren't necessarily the same.

@Dreamworx
Well, it's not like everyone makes a set, but most of them I've seen have you used the set skeleton. Which is why I'm so confused as to why Future user and... that other user (Crossbow user for this set symbol? Or is it an anchor? Apostrophe user for his misuse of them?) aren't using it. Hell, I think one of them even said he split his set into different MSE files to make it easier to sort, which makes no sense to me (admittedly I do the same, but that's because I'm not making a legit set, and instead separating cards by what comic book company they come from).

Firespawn
Firespawn

@5mileys
New to these threads, who's Time user and why should I care?

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@Firespawn
New to these threads, who's Time user and why should I care?
One of the best designers these threads have ever had, he's already finished four sets, two for two blocks, and is making a fifth, though he's currently busy with real life stuff so he isn't here very much now, unfortunately.

You can download the MSE files for his sets by going through this linke
http://pastebin.com/hsVAbnMj
which is included in the OP.

Inmate
Inmate

@Firespawn
He's probably the most prolific setmaker we've had. Not everyone likes his stuff but he's a decent dude and knows enough about cardmaking to do decent work. We've had several anons that successfully finished sets (Timeanon, Pirateanon, Savageanon,.. there's a list in the pastebin in the OP) but he's probably managed the most. He's done two two-set blocks and is on his third set, which will probably also be a block knowing him.

likme
likme

I figure sense we've gotten black doing drain effects, as well a

@idontknow
Oh woops lmao my bad.

@SniperGod
I wasn't aware there were any skeletons readily available, though I didn't really look for one to be fair. Is there some in the OP or should I google for one?

why isn't new-guy copy pasting
Well he is on mobile. I personally hate having to do it on my phone for some reason.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@likme
Mark makes one in a nuts and bolts article

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Nude_Bikergirl
Thank you for pointing me in the right direction, my dude.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Inmate
Wait, Savage user actually finished a set? I don't think I have a link for it.

@Evil_kitten
http://pastebin.com/Ly8pw7BR

5mileys
5mileys

@likme
sense
*since

card
Unfortunately, I have no idea how to word this correctly. I've been trying to find an effect that would cover this, but I can't find any. Specifically, I'm not sure how to word a single ability that does something, but does something more if an ability word condition is met. And going by Chart a Course, I'm starting to think an ability word shouldn't be used in this case.

And specifically, I'm talking about this kind of effect on a permanent. This wording, which is basically one ability split into two, one with an ability word, works perfectly fine on an instant or sorcery.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@5mileys
Well, sense there is no precedence it might be good for us to agree on a proper way to format it then? Nothing set in stone, but something that for now will work. I dislike the idea of just dropping the keyword.

Here are all the ways to format it I could think of. I'm honestly the biggest fan of the original, sense it's just like for instants and sorcerys, like you mentioned. Technically v4 works legally sense it's two triggers, but I feel that it misses the goal by instead giving you a black twin bolt instead of a black shock.

happy_sad
happy_sad

I love using weird art for cards.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@VisualMaster
v3. v1 and v2 feel like they should be on spells, not permanents.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@Supergrass
I liked Apostrophe user. It was funny and a fitting jab at my poor grammar.
What's that set symbol
I have no clue. I just threw something together that was distinct after MSE ate my old symbol. I'll try making something less ugly in a bit.

@happy_sad
This has a super high variants. I feel it's fine sense it only gets out of control once it has enough equipment to shoot anything down, and if you managed to suit any creature up with 3+ equipment it should just kinda win honestly.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@LuckyDusty
Readied
Could you please explain this wording to me? I've asked you about it two or three times already and you've never responded.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Carnalpleasure
Alright. I apperciate your feed back.

@kizzmybutt
Whoops, I thought I went through and fixed all the readied card's phrasing. My bad.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Skullbone
[...] Activate this ability only if ~ is enchanted or equipped.

@farquit
Just seems like a very slow draw, which I guess is OK given the cost. Name reminds me of the Armoire of Invincibility.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Stupidasole
Too cheap given how easy it is steal most creatures.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Lunatick
4/4?

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Spamalot
It's adorable. Love it!

askme
askme

@PackManBrainlure
I agree with you.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@JunkTop
Hello dredge.

@Supergrass
Repeatable upkeep trigger pushes this over the edge. I like triggering whenever you recur her though.

@Poker_Star
Rejuvenate is already a card name.

takes2long
takes2long

@likme
Do you have the art for that card anywhere, o Apostrophe user?

Might as well give you some feedback while I'm at it. It's an upgrade to Festering Goblin but not strictly better than Festering Mummy. I feel like it's okay. Also, one mana black creatures that serve their purpose when they die, is one of my favorite black things in Magic.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@Spamalot
Blue Convoke rare.
Each time I see another one these cards from you makes me think the white effect is shit. Though I was under the impression you were going to add flash to it, which could make it a lot better. This guy seems pretty strong... with 3 creatures he's already a concentrate + a 4/4 flying. Also, the fact all of them count any tapped creature, not only the ones that paid for his convoke, is quite interesting.

Please post the entire cycle together once you are done, so we can see them all side by side and compare a little better.

@Nude_Bikergirl
Interesting. Though I personally feel a bit off having two effects for the same cost and one of them being just a part of the other (both changes the target). I know it works completely different and each would be good on a different situation, but it feels off when I read the card.

@PackManBrainlure
Like I said, I prefer "if you control a Wizard or Druid" effects rather than something like "-X/-0, where X is the number of Wizards and Druids you control". I think that is the way to go for your tribal theme.

@MPmaster
But the -3/-0 isn't G
That is where the soft splash comes in action. Its a blue thing (though it has been used once or twice on green cards like Shrink).

And it feels weird for a Wizard or Druid to Fight, but that could just be me.
Not him, but I think the idea is that if a wizard/druid would fight, he would do it smartly (thus using magic to reduce the power of the enemy).

@Ignoramus
If all your tokens are going to be Familiars, maybe I would go for "Whenever a Familiar enters the battlefield under your control".

Firespawn
Firespawn

@Spamalot
Well playtesting will tell you for sure.
I think it needs a lot more playtesting than I can get to make sure a card is unbalanced (unless its really off, but I don't think that could happen because either I would noticed it, or one of you guys would). I will just try my best to look for references and compare many cards.

Yeah I saw that. I was just pressing my point I guess.
Since we are on this matter, you should note that static +0/+1 is completely different than temporarily +0/+1. It doesn't exactly translate equally. Static toughness bonus means that your creatures are always harder to kill. Yes, an instant that gives +0/+1 is hardly useful, but a static +0/+1 is something to consider. Also, it let's you use Force of Savagery :D

I think he'll play fine without it. If you need to give him something else, give him Daunt.
I think he might be OK at 4/4 for 2GG, since it already has that ETB effect.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

Some sort of green draw.

FastChef
FastChef

@SniperGod

thoughts?

cum2soon
cum2soon

@FastChef
Necrotic Worms
Enchantments shouldn't be common, unless its a very specific case like an enchantment-based set or something.

Shackled Corpse
Wording is all wrong. Check for reference, but it should be something like this:
CARDNAME can't block.
Pay X life, Sacrifice CARDNAME: Put target creature card with converted mana cost X from a graveyard into play under your control. That creature becomes a black Zombie in addition to its other colors and types.

Reanimator
Pay X life: Regenerate target Zombie creature with toughness equal or less to X.
Though I really don't see why restrict it to its toughness. I think this card would be a lot simpler if you just give a specific fixed life cost, something around 2~4.

And again, please do some research if you are unsure about the wording. Your Shackled Corpse has SEVERAL wording problems, including major problems that make the card not even work.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@FastChef
Necrotic Worms
Good. But I'd make it uncommon.

Shackled Corpse
The can't block ability seems kinda useless, pretty much the only time you'll use this is for the recur ability. Which should be worded
Pay X life, Sacrifice ~: Put target creature card with converted mana cost X from a graveyard onto the battlefield under your control. That creature is a black Zombie in addition to its other colors and types.

Reanimated Corpse
Could reduce cost of ability to B. Though I do want to point out that Regeneration was phased out a while ago. Indestructible is used in its place now.

Reanimator
Pay X life: Regenerate target Zombie with toughness X or less.
Seems kinda bad. I think I'd make it a flat 2 life.

@cum2soon
into play
Outdated wording.

equal or less to X.
Just plain wrong. I guess you wrote this off memory.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@BlogWobbles
into play
Outdated wording.
equal or less to X.
Just plain wrong. I guess you wrote this off memory.
Yeah, it was all off memory. It would take waaay too much time to search for proper wording before commenting each card in this thread. That is why I began with "Check for references, but it should be something like this...". After all, all that zombie user needs to do is search the proper wording for his own cards.

Bee-Bee Gunner
not sure how to comment on this

likme
likme

@cum2soon
@BlogWobbles

Thanks. Will make edits. I used to play a long time ago so a lot of my knowledge comes from old verbiage and abilities.

Indestructible seems a lot better than regenerate?

I gave it no block to prevent it from stopping an attack, but sacrificing before damage resolution to make it not as good (and lower it's mana cost).

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@likme
I had four more to post.. but let me see if I can research the wording better first lol

girlDog
girlDog

@likme
Indestructible seems a lot better than regenerate?
Not in my opinion, but WotC has indeed started to avoid regeneration due to the fact it sort of works in a non-intuitive over-complex way. Giving temporarily indestructibility is a lot more simple, and new players understand it exactly as it works. For black, however, you could go somewhere like Reassembling Skeleton.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@likme
Indestructible seems a lot better than regenerate?
Yes, but Indestructible is a lot easier to understand. Wizards had said for quite some time that the only reason they kept Regen around is because they hadn't found a suitable replacement for it and it had already been around so long. But the thing is, Regen is incredibly clunky and unintuitive, which is why they axed it.

I gave it no block to prevent it from stopping an attack, but sacrificing before damage resolution to make it not as good (and lower it's mana cost).
Fair enough.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

One more card for the thread edition. Surprised we're nearly at the image limit. That almost never happens.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@girlDog
@Flameblow
I took your suggestion and replaced regenerate with the Reassembling Skeleton language.

Methshot
Methshot

@Spazyfool
@SomethingNew
@Spamalot

Redone the faction addression the above points. Now they have an high CmC, which can be bypassed via their Reactivate (now called "Ancestral") costs. Also rewrote energy costs to Kaladesh standars, I admit they are more intuitive now (when it comes to 10 or less E, that is. I use numerical words otherwise - for the sake of costincency, see Nightbringer.)

JunkTop
JunkTop

@Raving_Cute
Reanimator
Catds in graveyards are referred to as cards. This should say "Zombie permanent card" or "Zombie creature card".

Also, this card is far more powerful than it was previously, way too good. I realize I recommended making it cost 2 life, but that was when it was just regenerating Zombies, not recurring them. Make it
Pay 2 life: Target Zombie you control gains Indestructible until end of turn.
or up the costs and rarity.

Shackled Corpse
Replace "into play" with "onto the battlefield"

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

Image limit reached, nearly at bump limit. Next thread edition? Zombies? Energy counters?

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@SomethingNew
Zombies
No thanks. (I say this as the designer of a monoblack set.)

Energy counters
Sure.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@TurtleCat
Energy counters sounds good. Though I want this thread to hit the bump limit before making a new one.

And does anyone have the add-on to MSE for energy counters? People might ask for it, and I'm phoneposting.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@Nude_Bikergirl
Here:
http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/12518

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@SniperGod
Thanks!

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Methshot
Reminds me a bit of the Dark Eldar cards I started a while ago. Might get back to that.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@SomethingNew
Image limit reached, nearly at bump limit. Next thread edition? Zombies? Energy counters?
Energy counters seems like a better idea. Zombies are way too specific, and likely boring.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

making a Zombie energy token card now lol

Methnerd
Methnerd

@SomethingNew
New thread posting?

JunkTop
JunkTop

@Methnerd
OK, hold on.

Snarelure
Snarelure

NT: /tg/thread/56451650#p56451650
NT: /tg/thread/56451650#p56451650
NT: /tg/thread/56451650#p56451650
NT: /tg/thread/56451650#p56451650
NT: /tg/thread/56451650#p56451650

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@hairygrape
I like it.

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