There had to be some state that wasn't something people could just change

idontknow
idontknow

There had to be some state that wasn't something people could just change. My solution? Beards. The original card was named something like Hairy Beeble, and it had Beardwalk, which meant it couldn't be blocked by someone who had a beard. I figured that wasn't something people could easily change. Would someone somewhere shave off their beard to block? Maybe, but hey, not often, and it would make a funny story.

Then one day, Elaine Chase (vice president of global brand strategy and marketing) played in a playtest. One of her notes was that beards were a bad thing to reference as for the most part only men could grow beards. I pointed out that having a beard was a negative thing, so it could only hurt you—meaning that not having a beard would never create a drawback in the game—but she made the strong note that it made women feel unwelcome, as it wasn't something they could interact with, even if it was only a negative thing. That was a really good point, one I was frustrated that I had missed, so I changed the card from caring about beards to caring about glasses.

This, by the way, is an important reason why you want lots of different people playtesting your product, because it's essential to get many vantage points. Things that aren't apparent to you can be very apparent to others, and it's key that you get that insight. I would much rather realize my mistake in playtesting than after the product has shipped.

All urls found in this thread:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20378106
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1751-9004.2010.00320.x/full
Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@idontknow
TALKEN ABOUT BERDS MAEK PEOPLES UPSET 'CUZ DEY DON'T HAVE BEARDS CUZ DEY CUNNY!!!
I don't have a degenerate vision so I don't use glasses, I now feel excluded from mtg along the grand majority of people, whom are not born with damaged eyes and don't require glasses.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@idontknow
This is a legitimately good point that she made. If you had cards referencing football stuff, it would make people who weren't familiar with football feel unwelcome. I agree with the decision. It's best of all cards are capable of being fully utilized by all players.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@idontknow
Should've been hair that goes past your shoulder.

With Magic's demo it's equally likely for male and female players and would include beards

JunkTop
JunkTop

does hanging sunglasses on your shirt collar count as "wearing glasses"

hairygrape
hairygrape

women can't grow beards

What kind of misogynistic shitlord would say something that ignorant?

StonedTime
StonedTime

@hairygrape
as for the most part

viagrandad
viagrandad

@idontknow
What a retard.

RavySnake
RavySnake

@idontknow
most part only men could grow beards

Wow what a sexist thing to say.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@idontknow
it’s a fun edition with rules that don’t take the game serious
sjw filth naturally take it serious and have to bitch and complain until it is changed

Skullbone
Skullbone

I like how people are bitching about MUH SJWS when having a beard was a BAD thing for the original version of the card. Women would have had an inherent advantage playing Unstable.

@Evil_kitten
Also most people aren't born needing glasses. There are a lot of causes for poor eyesight that can be fixed with glasses, and there's also people who have poor eyesight that don't wear glasses because they either wear contacts or had laser surgery. Or just don't wear glasses when they should.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@PurpleCharger
it’s a fun edition with rules that don’t take the game serious
playtester says something isn't fun
REEEEEEEEEE

SniperGod
SniperGod

@Skullbone
I like how people are bitching about MUH SJWS when having a beard was a BAD thing for the original version of the card. Women would have had an inherent advantage playing Unstable.

People are bitching about SJWs because every decision re: this card was an SJW decision. Quote:

she made the strong note that it made women feel unwelcome, as it wasn't something they could interact with, even if it was only a negative thing

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@BinaryMan

By that logic, doesn't it now make "people without glasses" feel unwelcome?

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Fuzzy_Logic
Nobody cares about the "people without glasses" demographic because it's not explicitly gendered.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Fuzzy_Logic
"glasses matter"
no cards with 3D print
talk about missed opportunity

JunkTop
JunkTop

@idontknow

Wear glasses
Have a beard

Fuck me, right?

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@haveahappyday
I am not wearing glasses, the card is not fun to me... now what?

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

I don't get this. Jokes like beardwalk have existed in games since forever, and this is a clever one. If someone says "Women can't interact with this rule" the response is "Yes they can, they can tease their opposition for playing a card that doesn't work on them, just like any other equal human without a beard."

If someone says "women gain an advantage with this card" the response is "So? Children also gain that same advantage."

Is Wizards of the Coast prejudiced against children...?

Spamalot
Spamalot

@Skullbone
I like how people are bitching about MUH SJWS when having a beard was a BAD thing for the original version of the card. Women would have had an inherent advantage playing Unstable.
That's kind of the whole reason people are bitching: It's a shining example of how utterly batshit crazy SJW logic is. This woman bitched about the card giving women an advantage, *on the grounds that it was unfair TO WOMEN*. On what fucking planet does that even begin to make rational sense?

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@Fuzzy_Logic
Anyone can wear glasses, not everyone can grow a beard.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Need_TLC
People who lack ears through injury or deformity can't wear most glasses, throw in a missing nose and they are fucked.

Imagine some horrible burn victim playing M:TG only to be fucked by this card at an event because he physically can't wear glasses.

How is this better than most women getting a pass on a card that punishes beards? Hell, many women DO have facial hair, they just find it unappealing and remove it.

w8t4u
w8t4u

I honestly wish more of these joke cards mentioned physical traits like beards, nose lengths, hats, dumb stuff like that. Un-tournaments would be filled with people wearing silly disguises. It would be great.

DeathDog
DeathDog

I don't blame SJWs for this

I blame soulless corporations trying to make a safe, bland, lowest common denominator product

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

This is a change that took zero effort, takes nothing of value away from the card, and will cause a very small number of people to enjoy the game just a little bit more.

Of course Veeky Forums hates it.

farquit
farquit

@w8t4u
This is what they should have hoped to inspire. Phrase it in a way that encourages even more fun.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@Deadlyinx
It's not about the change itself, it's about the toxic culture that led to the change being made in the first place.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@idontknow
Is there a more non-falsifiable statement than "it made [Protected Group] feel unwelcome?"

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

Jesus fucking Christ, you people will find literally anything to complain about, won't you? Sure, it's a stupid-ass reason to remove beardwalk, but winging and crying about The SJWs over literally every small fucking change made to your pieces of cardboard makes you all come off as a group of fucking six-year-olds afraid of getting cooties. First the art, and now this.

Grow the hell up you whining, idiotic, gaping cunts.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Evil_kitten
Hello, I have what you refer to as damaged eyes and I am not offended by your accurate assessment of my inferiority, because I am a goddamn adult.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Carnalpleasure
Sure the decisions are stupid and the art sucks, but you're all whiny children for refusing to buy our garbage.
Whatever you say, Elaine.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@GoogleCat
Jesus fucking Christ you people are so insecure.

likme
likme

@Skullbone
Complain about the actual problems with Magic, like the fact that the game's been shooting itself in the foot over and over again since BFZ if not earlier in terms of actually /being fun/.

All this focusing on 'muh SJWs' is drawing focus away from the fact that the current /mechanics/ are garbage.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@likme
I think we all agree the game is bad right now for a variety of reasons, whether you want to blame the poor choices on political ideologues encouraging nepotism or a soulless corporate machine demanding sanitized pablum. If the mechanics suck and the art sucks and the card quality sucks what's left?

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@CodeBuns
@likme
The game has been doing better every year, both their diversity marketing strategy and the mechanics seem to be well liked, regardless of what dumbasses on Veeky Forums seem to think about the company "shooting itself in the foot over and over again".

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@BlogWobbles
Stop insulting your customers, Elaine. Veeky Forums is where your customers go speak their minds.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Poker_Star
Veeky Forums is where insecure neckbeards go to pretend they're an oppressed minority whenever they're reminded non-white, non-male, non-cis, non-straight people exist.
A story that amounts to "hey, this mechanic highlights that you don't think women play the game" has you people gnashing your teeth at ess jay doubleyus like it's the Two Minutes Hate.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@DeathDog
Calm down, Elaine.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@idontknow
Can't just buy a fake beard and wear it to handicap yourself.
I wonder what this play tester thinks of the old Unhinged card that gave you bonuses for wearing women's clothing?

Bidwell
Bidwell

@BlogWobbles
Standard has been losing more and more players as time goes on, people are movong to pauper, modern or commander. This isn't good for business at all

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

Yeah no, if you're outraged at this change, you're a triggered MAGAfag that thinks everything should be your hugbox.I look forward to exclaim "In response" and put on shades.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@Deadlyinx
Why not make both cards for beeble tribal?

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Sir_Gallonhead
Because this set is the shadow of what the former UN-sets were, and that making more than one beeble would get in the way of "muh worlbuilding wacky but not too much playtest set".

Just because I don't mind the change doesn't mean I don't think as a whole, unstable is super bland compared to Unhinged and Unglued.

massdebater
massdebater

@w8t4u
do I wear the swirly goggles and investigator cap combo for my m'lady deck, or go capless in case my opponent plays a hatwalk card?

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@Carnalpleasure
grow the hell up
Oh shit son! You gonna tell me I'm fun at parties, I get lots of women like that? Or maybe you'll tell me to man up? How fucking ugly are you lmao

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

not just going with denimwalk
Why

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@w8t4u
It would have been as easy as swapping the clause to be unblockable to people who WEREN'T wearing glasses as it was cast.
And then you do similar things that trigger off of other clothing (hats, shorts, ascots, etc). Have one that gives a bonus of the opponent doesn't have an eye patch. Do you tech against the glasses? The eye patch? Or do you go for the sick "myopic pirate" look to cover your bases?
Fuck, now I'm actually upset.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@TurtleCat
That sounds like such a good time. Goddamn. Take some risks wotc.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@BinaryMan
Agreed. Veeky Forums spergs out over the most basic human decency.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@idontknow
so instead to be politically correct they made a card that is only effective against the the visually impaired and out right makes fun of them

Oh Tumblr. look what this ablist asshole did

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@Poker_Star
nows the chance Veeky Forums throw them to the dogs, let wotc get a taste of their own medicine as the SJW menace cannibalizes them you could save all things Veeky Forums just by letting pointing the SJWs in the right direction

cum2soon
cum2soon

@LuckyDusty
Hurloon Wrangler was a fun idea, but the problem was it wasnt very hard dor peo0le, if they were serious about it, to take off their pants, which is not something wizards wanted to feel like they were encouraging. So they made a card that captured the fun part of wrangler with less removal of pants

Soft_member
Soft_member

@LuckyDusty
More men than women wear jeans. Sexist.

Emberburn
Emberburn

Then one day, Elaine Chase (vice president of global brand strategy and marketing) played in a playtest. One of her notes was that beards were a bad thing to reference as for the most part only men could grow beards. I pointed out that having a beard was a negative thing, so it could only hurt you—meaning that not having a beard would never create a drawback in the game—but she made the strong note that it made women feel unwelcome, as it wasn't something they could interact with, even if it was only a negative thing. That was a really good point, one I was frustrated that I had missed, so I changed the card from caring about beards to caring about glasses.

How petty and insecure are american women that a reference to a beard makes them feel unwelcome?

Nojokur
Nojokur

That's the thing. Take a survey of female mtg players and like 5% might have any issue with beardwalk. That's 5% of 10% of players affecting design decisions. That's the problem. Not oh no swj ruined it, but Hasbro catering to tiny demographics just for the optics of it.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Nojokur
It's how liberal-leaning people operate.

The problem with the Democratic party every election is that they had a separate platform for each demographic and minority. They had a different message for each group designed specifically for them. The Republican party on the other hand had a single message for all Americans. And it's strange how that works out because the Democrats typically are mostly about "we're all in this together" except their message was so focused on how we're so different.

The right thing to as people is to do the best thing for most people then focus on the details.

The best thing was to implement @TurtleCat
And then when the topic of whether women would feel excluded by it comes up, you ask yourself if the people who are drawn by the love of the game are repulsed by one small detail that holds so much more power than everything else that's good are worth caring about. Because they're not. They're sensitive babies. Because the liberal dream of a sanitized environment where no offense is made is a barren shit environment that is neither fun or funny.

I agree with Chase's idea that beards aren't neutral enough. However, her reasoning that it offends and excludes is the worst fucking reasoning imaginable, it's like saying that women are offended that they are NOT 100% of the population every time they walk down the street. And that women are so petty to be offended by simple biological differences between men and women.

Techpill
Techpill

There had to be some state that wasn't something people could just change.

Here is a better card:

Good Boy - 1B
Creature - Rogue
Good Boy can't be blocked except by black or artifact players.
2/2

TreeEater
TreeEater

@Techpill
What counts as an artefact player? Does a pacemaker let you count as a cyborg and hence artefact? Do spectacles?

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Techpill
Better:

Black or equipped players

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@idontknow

This is a travesty of flavor and mechanics. Elaine Chase is an idiot, I'm not explaining why.

Evilember
Evilember

@TreeEater
Bots, if you play online

Nojokur
Nojokur

I never thought I'd see the day where I would enjoy seeing nerds seething over something as insignificant as a children's card game.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@DeathDog
Calm your tits Elaine, it's just a game

idontknow
idontknow

MaRo is constantly virtue signalling over how mtg ackchually has so many female players
his subconscious makes a mechanic on the presupposition that Magic is pretty much a male game

Watch what they do, not what they say.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Poker_Star
you're actually at a disadvantage if you don't wear glasses when playing against the beeble

Emberburn
Emberburn

@LuckyDusty
Maro described his feelings about the Unglued release event as "Oh god, what I have done" specifically because of this card.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@GoogleCat
Reaching pretty hard my guy

Playboyize
Playboyize

not even the old un-cards are safe. pic related from the rosewater's blog.

what is it about transsexuals and MTG anyway? whenever i hear about some woman or female player in magic, 90% of the time, they turn out to be a tranny. does the game attract them somehow, or does it turn men into chicks with some weird estrogen magic in the card ink?

@Nojokur
seething over childrens games is literally the defining trait of a nerd

Methnerd
Methnerd

@Raving_Cute
Complaining about a culture being toxic
On Veeky Forums

DeathDog
DeathDog

@BinaryMan
feel unwelcome
fuck off with your infantile fee fee mindset

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Playboyize
does it turn men into chicks with some weird estrogen magic in the card ink?

it's dietary

Techpill
Techpill

@Playboyize

How would we prove that at least N people in the room arent just still in the closet in terms of gender?

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Playboyize
@Techpill
that's a pretty good point. how do they imagine the games to play out like that? one person going from person to person, asking each one "excuse me, what gender do you identify as?"

gender theory was a fucking mistake

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@eGremlin
What if you have to deal with one of those extremely rude "everyone is a little bit gay. I get to tell you what you are." scumbags?

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@StrangeWizard
do specifically magic players eat more soy than people with other hobbies? what is it about magic in particular?

MPmaster
MPmaster

@GoogleCat
Everyone eats soy. It's a protein, filler and stabilizer in so many processed products it's not even funny.

idontknow
idontknow

@SomethingNew
i mean, you're reaching pretty hard too if you're saying people will feel bad just because they can't have a creature become unblockable against them

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Playboyize
Only guys really get into this game on its own merits, it is a game fundamentally about collecting things (male trait) and then a direct competitive conflict (females tend to shy from this) using some basic mathematics and mechanics (working out how things work is usually a male trait)

Women are primarily social, so they will tend get into it to be around their friends/partner, maybe they will keep going as long as they like the people around them, for them its not really about the game (its mechanics and collecting aspect) more about the social aspect

The only people who will properly stick through a mediocre social experience but will stay for enjoyment of the ACTUAL GAME MECHANICS is men... have you noticed the trannies are generally of the male to female variety? ie. they have brains that developed as males (I'm not aware of any FtM players myself)

Hence the "prevalence" of trannies, the (few) women in the hobby just leave because the actual game is boring to them and the social experience will inevitably change when people leave/new people turn up, leaving only the trannies as the face of the female gender

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Spamalot
Pretty much this. Having a beard would have been a disadvantage and would have been funny to see the bullshittery at play. It would have been even more funny to see who would shave just in case they came against this card.

FastChef
FastChef

@Spamalot
The point wasn't that it was unfair to women, but that the joke excluded them and thus made it feel like "yeah, this is a game for boys."

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@idontknow
Man, I'm glad I don't have to deal with people constantly bitching about the stupidest shit.

eGremlin
eGremlin

@FastChef
Again though, does it exclude children by that logic? Women are included in that mechanism by default as being non-bearded. They ARE included.

A lot of people get off on being offended these days. It's not good.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@eGremlin
does it exclude children by that logic?
The game is marked 13+, user.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

Maybe it's just because I, as a man, physically can't grow a beard but the idea that beardwalk tangibly would effect any woman is pretty laughable. It's just corperate bullshit happening for corperate bullshits sake and some Woke Ally HUMBLY AND BRAVELY sharing his story (making sure to put himself down during). Let's see some cards that do give advantages to beard havers, it doesn't state that is needs to be a real beard. Fake beards also have the advantage being toggle-able, essentially. You can state "fake beards count" and there. Problem solved. This proverbial unwelcome woman is now included and the joke is improved. But of course, this this is ritual public Ally maturbation everything before it must burn. How else will people know you listened and believed? It really isn't a big deal, just a bit disappointing and pathetic. I do want to see a fancy dress expansion though that gives bonuses and negates depending on what your wearing
when this card is played pick top hats or smoking pipes
come in with a beard/glasses deck and get your ass handed to you by a red/black anti glasses vampire teeth deck

Methshot
Methshot

@idontknow
@hairygrape

it wasn't something they could interact with, even if it was only a negative thing
it wasn't something they could interact with, even if it was only a negative thing
it wasn't something they could interact with, even if it was only a negative thing
it wasn't something they could interact with, even if it was only a negative thing

Techpill
Techpill

@Playboyize
Whelp, time to remind people that I identify as a A-10 Thunderbolt.

WebTool
WebTool

@CouchChiller
it is a game fundamentally about collecting things (male trait)
i thought in the hunter/gatherer dichotomy, the gatherers were the women. and it's called magic the gathering. hmm.

TreeEater
TreeEater

this card will never be reprinted because manlets might be triggered

Booteefool
Booteefool

@TreeEater

4UU for a Brown 6/14

meh

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@Booteefool
size 14
fucking bigfoot

Soft_member
Soft_member

@TreeEater
UU for a 6/12? Sounds reasonable.

Playboyize
Playboyize

@Soft_member
Oh no, it costs more the older I am, not the other way around. Then meh.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@TreeEater
This card will never get reprinted because silver border doesn't get reprinted

Techpill
Techpill

@idontknow
she made the strong note that it made women feel unwelcome, as it wasn't something they could interact with
And I'm sure there was a huge outcry from r/redpill about SJWs ruining their card game in between fishing leftovers out of their neckbeards and lodging another piss bottle under their panniculus.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@Soft_member
@Playboyize
I was about to ask if you were a time traveler who will be born in 20 years.

And if so, please tell me things get better ;-;

viagrandad
viagrandad

Holy shit. When did Hasbro's designers go so far off the deep end? At least nipponese card games don't have to deal with this made by committee socjus bullcrap.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@viagrandad
Yeah too bad they're all shit

FastChef
FastChef

@Evil_kitten
Stuff like Wixoss is still leagues better than anything Hasbro does these days which is the sad part.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@eGremlin
I think the fact that it's a game about demon murder and eldritch horror should exclude children, user.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@PurpleCharger
No, I think it's legitimately a good point. It's a very small rules tweak which allows more the playerbase to engage with the card. I think it was a good idea.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Emberfire
Pretty much everyone can reasonably engage with the current version of the card. There is a fairly large amount of practical and humorous glasses that can be used: prescription glasses, sunglasses, reading glasses, Groucho glasses, X-ray specs, googly-eye glasses, etc. If someone really wanted to be goofy they could even (some how) wear drinking glasses.

Beards are far more rare and exclusive. You either have grown a beard, have access to a fake one or be a gay man and married/engaged to a female friend.

WebTool
WebTool

@idontknow
This is particularly funny because two years ago GW put out joke rules for warhammer, dwarves got bonuses based on facial hair, things like gunner re-rolling if your moustache is more impressive than your opponent's

So the female gamers bought giant fake moustaches to wear whenever they needed the reroll.

It followed with great pomp and chutzpah, she actually said, "Why four score and seven year ago we began marching to bring about our guns to bear down these ponce-elves and so I sayeth by my moustache thou shalt fire"

And I remember it vividly because it was fucking funny.

Evilember
Evilember

@ZeroReborn
This would have been heckin brilliant.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Techpill
You best girl.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Evil_kitten
To be fair, it IS physically possible for you to put on glasses anyway.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@Spamalot
@iluvmen

The whole reason you think it's crazy is actually logical.

It's rational because they don't want there to be advantages or disadvantages for being one sex or the other.

If you think this is "SJW nonsense" then you're a fucking moron who will reach for any excuse to get angry at people who suggest that social inequality can exist.

@Raving_Cute
Funny, I thought Veeky Forums laughed at the idea at calling something 'toxic'.

@Evil_kitten

1. A single message that ignored issues that different groups of people faced and excluded people anyway
2. Here is a fun numbers game regarding the 'this doesn't even offend a significant portion'.
There are two hypothetical designs for this:
Design A will make 50% of the magic population laugh, but of the 50% that don't, 5% of that will feel left out by it.
Design B will make 50% of the magic population laugh, and won't make anyone feel left out.
Why would you NOT pick the second one?

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Emberburn
Maro is a complete retard. If what he publishes on Twitter is what he consider the epitome of comedy then please, don't ever let him get close to a set ever again.

Flameblow
Flameblow

Women are already 35% of the playerbase, we shouldnt make it a 0% even if it means changing a thing or two

takes2long
takes2long

@Soft_member
Beards are just as gender neutral as jeans

girlDog
girlDog

@Evil_kitten
Yeah, also, as someone who needs glasses, if this means there’s cards that fuck me over because I can’t see shit without my glasses, I’m gonna be pissed. What do they expect me to do, take them off? That’s a great trip to a headache.
Beards is way better for the function he was going for, since as he says, it can’t be changed. Glasses can just come off. (Not for me though.)
It’s lame and I feel discriminated against.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@StrangeWizard
The people who told you that soy will turn your feminine and gay also sell you snakeoil that has soy as an ingredient.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

Just disregarding the gender issue, I don't see why this would bother anyone. Beardwalk would be a much less fun ability because having a beard is a much more permanent state than wearing glasses. And the default better position is being clean shaven, which is less humorous than beards. This card will encourage optimizing gamers to either bring fake glasses for play, or play the game with an outlandish pair of fake glasses if they're creative. Seems like a more amusing experience to me.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Sir_Gallonhead
And if so, please tell me things get better ;-;

That depends, how do you feel about violence, low trust social norms, and racial tension?

Emberfire
Emberfire

Should have stuck to denim related puns. At least then I can attempt to take my pants off in response to the denim related keyword spells

Evilember
Evilember

@Ignoramus
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20378106

this anti-soy idea is bullshit.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@LuckyDusty
It's rational because they don't want there to be advantages or disadvantages for being one sex or the other.
It would be nice if that were the case, but it's *explicitly* not.
The reasoning is explained right there: The problem is not that men are (potentially) disadvantaged, but rather that WOMEN might feel excluded for the fact that they aren't subject to that disadvantage.

It takes some pretty advanced mental acrobatics to feel *excluded* by something that *benefits* you, and frankly any ideology that validates that sort of convoluted self-victimization (and indeed actively promotes it by training people to find such "microaggression") is far more harmful than the prejudices it seeks to fight. I'd call it "cancer", but really it's more aptly comparable to an autoimmune disorder: it takes a defense that in general is good, and hypersensitizes it to the point of self-destruction.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Booteefool

4UU for a Brown 6/14

Under the classic colour borders we would rule it as an ARTIFACT CREATURE.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

All they had to do was supply stores with fake beards, moustaches and various other wearable accessories.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@Carnalpleasure
Giving women handouts for being women makes them feel lesser and excluded

Booteefool
Booteefool

@cum2soon
Why would you ever want less removal of pants.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Carnalpleasure
Beardwalk does treat players differently by sex. The women can't grow beards, so they have less interaction with the game.

Mind, guys don't have that much interaction with that card either. Dudes with beards just get to choose weither they want to keep their looks at risk of giving their opponents for the day an upside or not. And considering how much time and work can go into a decent beard it's fucking stupid design. The glasses thing is still stupid, but if you need them you can at least take them off during your opponent's turn.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

I'm going to wear like 4 pairs of glasses tomorrow.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@ZeroReborn
And considering how much time and work can go into a decent beard it's fucking stupid design.

Stop shaving? It ain't hard

FastChef
FastChef

@Emberfire
Stop shaving? It ain't hard

A *decent* beard, user.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@ZeroReborn
@ZeroReborn
I didn't say it doesn't treat players differently by sex, I said the sex discrimination *per se* is explicitly stated not to be the reason it was shot down. It wasn't simply that it impacted the sexes differently, but rather that the differential treatment was taken to be a slight *against women*... Which is patently ridiculous by any rational assessment.

Not being subject to an opposing creature's conditional unblockability is not reducing your ability to "interact with the game". In fact, unblockability is typically considered to *reduce* interaction, since it removes one of the major ways you can affect an opponent's creatures. Besides which, even if we do consider it a potential "interaction" that women would be "missing out on", it's nonsense to be upset about that if you're a woman because it's a *purely negative* interaction. It's not something any player would *want* to be subject to.

Beardwalk is reasonably objectionable insofar as it is sexually discriminatory, but not insofar as it is discriminatory *against* women. It would be one thing if it were reversed -- making the creature unblockable so long as its *controller* has a beard -- as this would obviously disadvantage women. But it's simply absurd to claim that an effect that can only work in a woman's favor is *excluding* her. It may be factually accurate that some women may feel that way (especially in today's age of microaggression hyper-awareness), but it's not doing them any favors to validate that perception by catering to it. It's not compassionate to endorse a paranoid person's irrational perceptions of persecution.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@ZeroReborn
The glasses thing is still stupid, but if you need them you can at least take them off during your opponent's turn.
Other way around -- if you don't need glasses, you can wear some during the opponent's turn. The joke is that you need glasses to see it clearly in order to block it, not that it's too blurry for people with poor eyesight to block it.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@CodeBuns
Fuck you why did you bump this thread

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@idontknow
women can't have beards
Not very progressive.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@FastChef
Grizzly man>Your dainty little oiled up goatee

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@CouchChiller
collecting things (male trait)
[Citation needed]
direct competitive conflict (females tend to shy from this)
[Citation Needed]
basic mathematics and mechanics (working out how things work is usually a male trait)
[Citation Needed]
Women are primarily social
[Citation Needed]
they will tend get into it to be around their friends/partner
[Citation Needed]
for them its not really about the game (its mechanics and collecting aspect) more about the social aspect
[Citation Needed]
The only people who will properly stick through a mediocre social experience but will stay for enjoyment of the ACTUAL GAME MECHANICS is men
[Citation Needed]
the actual game is boring to them
[Citation Needed]

askme
askme

@BunnyJinx

The things/people psychological split along gender lines is well documented and huge.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1751-9004.2010.00320.x/full

Playboyize
Playboyize

@DeathDog
This

While I completely believe Maro would want to make everyone happy, the real reason these decisions stick is because the company thinks it will make more money.
Risk takers and boundary pushers be damned, gotta make sure the product suits everyone.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@JunkTop
from what I can tell it is a good thing if you are wearing glasses when it is cast

eGremlin
eGremlin

@w8t4u
this
beardwalk on its own would have been problematic in the sense that you need some way to measure it

massdebater
massdebater

@Ignoramus
@Evilember
yes, basically soy won't affect you in any significant way, even flax which has the highest concentration of phyto-estrogens of any oft-consumed plant won't do much
the drugs trannies take are 1000x strength of any diet

SniperWish
SniperWish

women do not deserve rights, and they can't comprehend playing magic at a high level. women corrupt anything they touch, keep them out of magic.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@SniperWish
Have you heard of voat.co?

I think you'd like it

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