Can fascists be Lawful Good?

But a moral relativist cannot define a law as good or evil, and a moral absolutist is, as we know, a sith, and sith are definitely fascists. Therefore only a fascist can define a law as good or evil.

Checkmate commie.

Why not?
Fascist implies lawful.
And Good is subject to perspective. Or Depends on what God they follow.

And yet you'll find no end of people who say that communism can be good because "real communism has never been tried XD", yet anyone who claims to be fascist is indisputably and irredeemably evil because that one fascist country one time killed a bunch of political dissidents (something that no non-fascist country has ever, ever, ever done).

Not all fascists were nazis. Fascist Italy did things pretty differently.

Yes but a fascist state doesn't necessarily have to be gobbling up jews in furnaces.

If you consider a pre-war Germany pre final solution there was certainly persecution but there was no laws forcing a person to attack jews. A 'character' who is just a butcher or candlestick maker minding his own business, looking after his family could still be considered LG imo.

I'm a fascist but let's keep politics out of games, alright?

Neither did Nazi Germany, only a small amount of Jews went to the furnace, the rest died of other causes

Report, ignore, hide

The ethnic cleansing

It was an argument against the position that living in accordance with your societies' laws, regardless of whether those laws are good or not (as defined by D&D), is lawful and good, because that's not how the alignment is defined by D&D.

Why can't they? Fascists basically believe in a totalitarian form of governance by a strong leader who unites the people based on hypernationalist principles. The only flaw in this system (and boy it's a big one!) is that there's no limits on the leader. Technically if the leader is good and flawless this allows for limitless good to be done on the part of the leader. The entire system of fascism is as good as its leader, the problem is that power corrupts very rapidly and consistently.

Theoretically a fascist France led by Saint Louis would be a pretty Lawful Good country. Ironically France's National Emblem still very prominently features the fasces, though admittedly the symbolism behind that is more republican than anything given its roots in the Roman Republic.

This is the early 1930s, when Mussolini laughed at the idea that those who wore bearskins and shat in mudhuts during the age of Caesar were somehow superior. During the late 1930s he did a full 180 and not only claimed the Nordic race was superior, but that the very shortlived Langobard regime had somehow made Italy Nordic but the almost entirely Frankish upper class of France somehow had not made France Germanic.

Nordicism is one hell of a drug.

Why? Does the very concept of fascism trigger you so much that you can't even look at a faggot without tearing up like a little leftie baby bitch?

Found the JIDF.

Fascism != totalitarianism, my man. It refers to a very specific type of totalitarianism that defines itself as a mix of left and right, is at once revolutionary and traditionalist, attempts to make the people and the state synonymous, and follows a collectivist economic policy that rejects class struggle and encourages identification across class lines based on nationality and common history/culture. Often but not always it emphasizes race as an essential part of this nationality, but Italian fascism rejected antisemitism until it came under German influence, and Brazilian Integralism rejected racism altogether.

Yes, but they can never fit comfortably into a fascist system.

Alignment is just garbage anyway. So a Lawful Good goblin would have to slaughter all of his friends and family because they are Chaotic Evil

>Technically if the leader is good and flawless this allows for limitless good to be done on the part of the leader.

Nah, even if you want to be a good guy leader, you have to keep the people in your court happy, which generally costs resources, which generally aren't being spent on the people.

Just because someone says something at one point in their life, does not mean they held the view indefinitely.

Saying that, Fascism is not inherently evil. Just very hard to do in a reasonably moral manner. Like all forms of governing

>Nah, even if you want to be a good guy leader, you have to keep the people in your court happy
In a monarchy yes, especially with nobles being around for their entire lives and their heirs after them. But in a totalitarian fascist dictatorship where you can dismiss your staff and advisors at a whim, I think that becomes less of a problem. The risk does exist of some kind of Valkyrie like attempt on your life, but that always exists no matter what kind of form of governance.

Oh wait, you meant in terms of keeping them paid and stuff! Yeah, that kind of comes with the profession. That's a literally unavoidable cost unless you somehow manage to create a caste of slave-administrators (who generally aren't exactly motivated, creating its own problems).

>This is the early 1930s, when Mussolini laughed at the idea that those who wore bearskins and shat in mudhuts during the age of Caesar were somehow superior. During the late 1930s he did a full 180 and not only claimed the Nordic race was superior, but that the very shortlived Langobard regime had somehow made Italy Nordic but the almost entirely Frankish upper class of France somehow had not made France Germanic.
That was less because he believed it and more because he didn't want to get on Hitler's bad side

All these people that say no to LAG fascism need to explain why autocratic monarchies get a pass.

What alignment would Evola be?

I don't think so. I don't see what's good about coercing people to follow what you say.

Then again, alignments are shit, so..

Lawful Neutral (lawful as in cosmic law).

...

Yeah, I'm gonna assume Mussolini was being more honest when Italy seemed like the preeminent power in Europe than when it looked like Germany was on the verge of taking over the world. Up until the mid 30s Italy was openly hostile towards Germany and Mussolini saw Hitler as just another barbarian badly aping Roman glory. He even stole the salute and everything.

>That's a literally unavoidable cost unless you somehow manage to create a caste of slave-administrators (who generally aren't exactly motivated, creating its own problems).
Janissaries seemed to work pretty well for the Ottomans.

The divine right of kings

Nice strawman, but no one is saying that in this thread. In fact, D&D alignments probably support the notion fascism is LG (or at the very least could be any of the three lawful alignments) while a modern liberal democracy would fall on the chaotic side of things.

>Does the very concept of fascism trigger you so much that you can't even look at a faggot without tearing up like a little leftie baby bitch?
>faggot

Was that supposed to say "fascist?" Because that's hilarious if so

Just how much of Nazidom is based on co-opting other people's stuff?

>Alignments
If you're a cuck because you want someone to tell you who you can breed with, what you can say, and what you can think; then sure, facism is LG.

>a modern liberal democracy would fall on the chaotic side of things
it's a society, so no, it wouldn't

>Janissaries seemed to work pretty well for the Ottomans.
You need to read up more on the Janissaries. Further along in their history they freely deposed of caliphs and sultans as they wielded enormous political and military power. They were a more ruthless version of the Chinese eunuchs that dominated many Imperial courts.

No, it was supposed to say faggot, you faggot! Go ahead and google the original meaning of faggot.

Living outside of society is what neutral characters do, user.

Likely not
Bundles of sticks (or rods) known as fasces are a prminant fascist (and authoritarian) symbol
strength together and all that

>what is the MSM and Hollywood

Depends on how dumb they are.

Personally, if they are retarded then yes.

Universally, no

thatsthejoke.jpg

Or at least I hope. There's no way someone can be that hypocritical

Nah, democracy is the best way to do it. You just gotta make sure everyone is voting.

So if 51% of the population voted "we should kill the natives" then that's proper and good to do because it was democractically decided?

Most people are idiots tho
pure democracy is a meme that always devolves into a half anarchy half plutocracy mix

> There's no way someone can be that hypocritical

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

I'M LAUGHING AT YOU

youtu.be/4zPF_aroodw?t=12s

Depends on the setting

No, he definitely meant that. Most people don't realize how bad it is.

This is one of the cringiest rap songs I've ever heard in my life.

>Most people are idiots tho
It's called a 'good public education'. Something the US has actively destroyed over the last couple of decades.

>let me create a strawman argument

Cmon dude, if you are going to argue with people then learn the basics.

>Most people are idiots

I agree, a strong democracy needs a strong education system.

That's nice.

Why the fuck is this thread here?

No, it's an honest question. If democracy is the highest ideal then that seems like a completely valid position to take.

>a strawman argument is the best argument because that is the best one I can come up with

...

>trying to redpill Veeky Forums
You're talking to people who routinely live in fantasy worlds, user.

Because nu/tg/pol/.

If you look at the US's symbology it's also pretty facses-heavy, for similar reasons.

Also worth noting that Roman dictators (in the original sense, which is a guy with unlimited authority for the duration of a crisis/6 months, whichever comes first) had having a large number (24) of fasces (with their axe blades kept on, which they wouldn't usually have in the city) as a symbol of them having overwhelming power - and that, until the last century of the Republic, they actually released the powers every time, which is pretty Lawful if nothing else.
Pre WWII then, "dictator" and "facses" had much less nasty connotations.

>No, it's an honest question.
Ask it somewhere else then.

>but nazis can't

youtube.com/watch?v=vMGbZswSz_w

LE vs CE. No one is LG in that video.

A better question: can a lawful good ideology not be fascist?

Yup.

WTF? I love America now!

>implying they cant

The SS fags that seep into this site are hilarious. Actually thinking facism is a legit good way to run a nation is absolute delusion. A good state is a free one that works for the many not the few

>implying that the jews didn't deserve it.
Look up what they did in Germany. The German's didn't hat them for no reason.

Cowards are the ones who provide no proof for their argument. Go back into your hole where it is safe.

Yeah, but do you know who are even more hilarious? Triggered lefties who start flapping their armfat in rage whenever they read even a single word that "triggers" them to the point of losing all reading comprehension. Allow me to quote MYSELF to show how fucking retarded you are.

>The only flaw in this system (and boy it's a big one!) is that there's no limits on the leader.
What I was saying here is that a system that allows unlimited power to a ruler is only good if that ruler is the ideal man. Outside of left wing echo chambers that's not a controversial opinion (yet at the same time the left will claim that Papa Stalin did no wrong).

LMAOing @ ur life, homo.

Not that guy and I do not support the genocide of the Jews, nor the idea that all Jews in Germany collectively bear responsibility for this, but all leaders of the 1918 communist uprising in Germany (the most notable among those being Rosa Luxembourg) were Jews. Then there's also the Frankfurter school, whose founding members were mostly Jews. When Hitler believed the Jews and the socialists were in cahoots it wasn't entirely without precedent.

>Nah, democracy is the best way to do it.
Lol no.
Parliamentary democracy is fucking shit tier form of governance. It absolves the leaders of all actual burden responsibility for their actions or consequences for their failures (no, not getting re-elected is in no way, an actual significant consequence), delegating this burden to the "people" who in turn, cannot be held accountable for the failures of the leaders in any reasonable form of way.
It also grants power to the people who are the best at lying to the masses and manipulating them, instead of the most competent leaders or the most honest and honorable.
The true power within the democracy also is not with the people, or the elected leaders, but with the people who control the media which manipulates the public opinion, and the international financiers, who basically own the nations trough debt, because basically no democracy has an actual state owned central bank.

In short, parliamentary democracy is nothing more than a disgusting puppet theater trough which the people are fooled into thinking that they have any say in anything, while the fucking media owners, big business and bankers run the show.
The sooner we stop revering democracy the better.
Hitler was right.
youtube.com/watch?v=kzIRG525l6s

@56826550

You are supporting crazy logic by a crazy man for no reason but to be controversial. Assuming the claim is true, then look up what caused this coincidence to occur. Spoiler, it will be because the country was in the shitter and these guys happened to be in close contact with each other.

> It absolves the leaders of all actual burden responsibility

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

They don't get re-elected and they get crime time for when they really fuck up. Try again, kid.

>It also grants power to the people who are the best at lying to the masses and manipulating them

I agree that a strong democracy needs a strong education system capable of training its citizens to think logically and be able to look through lies when presented with facts. Also they would be empowered to find the facts themselves.

This.
Jews overwhelmingly supported communism across Europe and the Bolshevik revolution of Russia was led by Jews. They also inflicted untold horrors on the native Russian peoples during the Red Terror.

Jews were in no way, innocent. They brought the wrath of Germans upon themselves trough their own actions.
The communists jews waged massive terrorist campaigns in Weimar Germany against all those who opposed them. Antifa has it's roots in Weimar Germany's Communist party; it was the militant wing of the commies and they used ruthless violence against EVERYONE who opposed them, not just the National Socialists. The brownshirts were organized in the first place in order to protect the party members in their events from these communist militants.

I have zero respect for anyone who marches under the flag of antifa or soviet union. Two days ago during my homeland's independence day those worthless commies tried to attack and agitate against people celebrating our independence via a torch march. They do this shit every fucking year. Those people are the scum of the earth and I'd rather side with the fucking Nazis than them. Coincidentally, this is why Hitler rose to power in the first place

You are correct is saying that modern democracy has not transparently conveyed the money that is flowing. Democracy needs the public servants to be completely transparent in the funds that they receive and also the businesses therein need to be transparent with the funding they receive as well.

>The true power within the democracy also is not with the people, or the elected leaders, but with the people who control the media which manipulates the public opinion

I believed this up until Trump got elected.The media doesn't control shit, americans are wild untamed animals that hurt themselves in their own confusion.

>yet at the same time the left will claim that Papa Stalin did no wrong
Very few people on the left actually say this, or talk much about communism at all. Its most often brought up by alt-right far more often, and usually with an implication to excuse the Nazis and other fascists.

Yeah, sure.
When are Clinton's gonna get prosecuted for all their corruption?

The problem is that the leaders in democracy have no fucking insentive to maintain a good education system because it hampers their powerbase.
Also, modern education was never intended to make people into smart and critically thinking people. It was intended to make people into good factory workers.
Most people who only go trough primary education and a vocational school are not trained to think, they are trained to do a job.
And increasingly, the "higher education" also completely fails to teach critical thinking, as universities are teaching people to become activists, rather than teaching them to view the world trough reason and thinking.

>They also inflicted untold horrors on the native Russian peoples during the Red Terror.
Compared to the White Terror during Civil War and pointless WWI started by dumb tsar who sent millions to death and destroyed his country which lead to all other disasters?

>The Jews, the Jews, the Jews

christ, it's like you actually don't know that communism was a thing all over the world. Personally I'm shocked that you don't relate communist activity in 1918 Germany with the fact THEY ARE RIGHT NEXT TO FUCKING RUSSIA

The reason fascists fundamentally cannot by LG is because fascism demands blind obedience to the state embodied in a single man. Lawful Good requires a character be able to question law to judge whether or not it is also good, a fascist lacks that required analytical ability.

For all the alt-right's belief in freethinking, they operate in the same manner of the cult, demanding unquestioning obedience to the accepted dogma, and reacting violently toward any deviation from their internal norm.

But this is just a /pol/ bait thread, so who cares.

The media is entirely responsible for getting the Trump president. They are the ones who brought publicity to the man. Their failure was in thinking that they could shame the people into disliking Trump. If they were actually smart, they would have just ignored him entirely but they were too greedy for the spectacle that Trump was.

As I am not even murrican, I enjoy Trump's presidency for the sheer butthurt it causes.

>When are Clinton's gonna get prosecuted for all their corruption?

On a beautiful day herr comrade deflection. I understand why you would want to change the subject, since you have no ground to stand on.

>belief in freethinking,
purported belief.

(samefagging here)

The alt-right aren't freethinkers, they're mainstream contrarians. They will tell you red is blue so long as it contradicts the mainstream definition of blue. For all their talk of mass media manipulation and censorship, their own movement is repleat with doublethink and policing thought crimes.

>nu/tg/pol/.

I ain't defending the tzars. Russia has always been a shithole.
I am just stating that the Bolsheviks, whose leadership was full of jews, committed heinous crimes against the Russian people as well.

Yeah, it was. And it was overwhelmingly spread and supported by Jews.
Even the fat fuck Churchill wrote about that.
en.wikisource.org/wiki/Zionism_versus_Bolshevism

And after the Bolshevik revolution, Russia was basically led by jews.

I ain't deflecting. I am just pointing out a real world example of an utterly corrupt politician who has failed at her duty as a public servant multiple times, facing no punishment for her crimes.

>Zuicide Manifesdo
Gets me every time

>The problem is that the leaders in democracy have no fucking insentive to maintain a good education system because it hampers their powerbase.

The leaders are elected by the people, not by magical fairies. The people want better education. It's exhausting to have to explain all this stuff to fascist brainlets.

>hurr durr the education system now is shitty

Then we fix it. How is this such a hard conclusion to reach?

>people in a time of anti-semitism blame the jews for everything

Shocking!

No, you are deflecting. A clear counter argument was presented and all you could come up with is "b-b-b-b-b-but what about X???" You are a baby who wants others to think for you because you don't want to think about any solution aside from lulnazi