/HHG/ - Horus Heresy General

>Rending is both too much and overused.
While I agree with this sentiment overall, I'd like to take this space to argue that the game as a whole needs more CC weapons with Rending to form another alternative to AP2 weapons (Both unwieldy and at initiative.)

>Rending is both too much and overused
Isn't Sniper even worst ? Auto-wound on 4+ and AP2 on 6 is brutal.

>super-Rending
Yeah I know, but having too much special rules on a basic weapon isn't a good thing IMO. And Paragon spears can benefit from the rule when Piercing Cut would actually be useless, so there is some kind of continuity.

>that means Hetaeroi and Aquilon need something to increase their value, then.
True. Aquilon (Aquiloi ? Argh !) may have +1 Attack if the Misericordia is treated as a CCW. Hetaeroi could be CC6 or have the Fearless USR for only a few more points. Idk.

*WS6 (Frenchfag spotted)

Piercing Cut is fairly elegant alternative, I think.

Hetaeroi - Preferred Enemy (Everything)
Aquiloi - Rampage

>Isn't Sniper even worse?
True enough. 48" S5 AP3 Salvo 3/4, Ignore Cover, Precision Shots?

Well, there are a bunch of choices already. FW just needs to use them.
>Rending - AP2, autowound and +d3 Pen on a to-wound roll of 6+
>Piercing Cut - AP2 on to-hit rolls of 5+
>Flawless Strike - AP2 and autowound on to-hit rolls of 6+

>Hetaeroi
Preferred Enemy is nice, good idea user ! How would you price them accordingly ? 75 points ?

>Aquiloi
Rampage would make them far too powerful against hordes (even if we know Custodes need some anti-hordes stuff). What about 1d3 Hammer of Wrath attacks instead of one ?

>Adrastus
48" Salvo 3/4 is a bit too much desu. 36" 3/3 seems good for a 65 points model.

Flawless Strike isn't a real rule however, I made up this one as an enhanced (and uninspired) version of the Cutting Strike rule from the Legatine axe (to-hit rolls of 6 = autowound).

Updated list from last thread. Changed the sisters for a tank. I could switch the Hetaeron guard for a regular squad but it leaves me with an awkward amount of points.

HQ
shield tribune - 275
paragon spear, cyber familiar, digital lasers, shield

Elites
Achillus Dreadnought - 240
dreadspear

Hetaeron Guard squad with Grav carrier - 515
5x guard with one solerite gauntlet and Arae Shrikes. Extra armor for the tank

Troops
custodian Gaurd squad- 310
5x custodians with Teleportation transponders, Magisterium, and Arae Shrikes

Sentinel guard squad - 245
4x sentinel gaurds

Heavy support
Caladius Grav tank- 215
Illastus Accelerator cannon and extra armor

Caladius Grav tank -200
extra armor

>Flawless Strike isn't a real rule however
It isn't? I felt like I had read this before somewhere, but I guess I got things mixed up then.
It'd be a neat rule though.

Drop the Digital Lasers and Arae Shrikes. Take one more model on the Sentinels.

Anyone ever tried a Victory is Vengeance campaign? They look kinda fun, even if they are slightly easy to break with Mechanicum Secutarii throwing infinite ammo Haywire around.

I like coming up with restricted-points lists, it seems like more of an interesting challenge than just tossing down units I like and adjusting the odd wargear choice.

> Rate muh list

Cadre Tactics: Infiltrate for all

Jenetia Krole
Excrutiatus Cadre- Power Fist, Stake Crossbow (Black Judge)
Excrutiatus Cadre- Stake Crossbow (Black Judge)

Oblivion Knights- 10, Power Axes, Raptor Guard
Oblivion Knights- 10
Oblivion Knights- 10

Prosecutors- 10
Prosecutors- 10
Prosecutors- 10
Prosecutors- 10
Vigilators- 10
Vigilators- 10

Kharon Acquisitors- 11, 3 Multi Meltas

> No anti-air
> No anti-tank outside of my own tanks
> 11 Infiltrating doomtubes
> 3 Scouting Tank Shocks first turn

This actually looks super fun.

Personally I would take an Oblivion Knight Centura instead of the second Excrutiatus Cadre; that way you can take Breaching Charges on a few units to save your ass if needed

The trouble with Salvo at range 36" is that it'd mean 18" range on the move, where the desintegrator almost kicks in.
It's a really weird spot; 48" when stationary is too much, 18" when moving is too little.
>Hammer of Wrath
I guess that'd be something ...but I'm not sure making Custodes even more charge-dependant is the right idea.

How about a dual profile Heavy 36" and Assault 24"?

Christ guys, I'm trying to start blood angels, rules looks neat, cool colours and my best friend is playing sons of horus so it's cool thematically.

But I've played dark angels since 4th edition and it's pretty fucking hard to break away from my favorite grumpy bois.

Haven't bought anything that designates legion yet, or painted that much, feel like I should wait and see if my erection caused by the lion's model is enough to make me choose, because his art on the book covers makes me want to kill myself.

(Also checkerboard looks fun to paint)

naw, go with your preferred legion. forcing yourself to play something else will kill your moto.

>DA carrying a wounded guardsman

Ha, nice try. We're more likely to see an IW caring about collateral damage than something like that happening.

What new meme is this?

DA only turn into quasi-traitors when the fallen are on the line.

Blood keeps you Blood Angel

Is it just me or are Shield Custodes more generally useful than Spear Custodes? The army doesn't really have issues clobbering people, but the Spear dudes seem a lot more fragile relative to the Shield Custodes. Not that they're not beefy but I really appreciate how beefy the Shields are.

And Ab-humans. Fucking muties and the scum that enable them.

Honestly, user, you'll probably prefer Blood Angels. The First's rules in 30k are lackluster to say the least.

Anyone have the tier list of BL HH books?

>It's a really weird spot
I agree, but they are supposed to be a Heavy Support unit, they shouldn't excel at everything. Their biggest problem now is the caliver being AP4 Heavy 3, turning it into a AP3 Salvo weapon mitigates their absence of mobility without making them a swiss army knife. Anyway, 18ps is still better than any Rapid Fire weapon, you will be safe for one turn unless your opponent is going full jetpacks/bikes or is a lucky bastard when rolling for charge distance.

But yeah, they really are a weird unit to begin with. I feel like FW should have give them some long-range special weapons as options.

>I guess that'd be something ...but I'm not sure making Custodes even more charge-dependant is the right idea
I see the paradox... But the thing is, Aquiloi are still lethal if they get charged, it's nothing like the Custodians and their shitty spears. They are supposed to be the Legio's line breakers so I think something agressive would suit them well.

Hammer of Wrath is great against lightly-armoured infantry (read : that FUCKING HORDES we struggle to kill) but not so much against TEQs and MEQs, so it's fine. Rampage would be broken as hell against any unit, that's 5 attacks on average per Aquilon (6 if the Misericordia is CCW).

Which one, and both aren't very good.

Any podcast fags here? The Exitus Americanus 30k / 40k series is QUITE GOOD.

Does FW hate Iron Hands?

> No SC model for both 30k and 40k
> Iron Fathers build fake undead version of their Primarch using skeletons and broken body parts. Only his 2 arms were what's been real of him.
> Said Iron Fathers practically friendly fires Meduson to death because "that fucking Terran will doom the Legion."

You're gonna have to sell me on it, because everything about them looks absolutely gay as fuck.
One arm, and they didn't blue on blue him, they abandoned him to be killed by the enemy.

Speaking of Terran Marines, did the majority of them remain in service to the Emperor, or did they majorly side with Horus since he was found when they were first serving?

For IH? I bet you the vast majority were absurdly loyal to the Emperor. Most view rebellion as weakness, regardless of who it is.

The only attempt we know of to suborn the Iron Hands was Fulgrim's fuck up. Apparently Horus and the Word Bearers didn't make an attempt to seed lodges in them because Fulgrim was convinced he could handle it.

So to most of the Iron Hands Horus is the guy who fucked them up the ass and killed their leader. While there must be some Iron Hand traitors, it is likely a very small number.

The 'non-loyal' Iron Hands we've seen so far are dudes off doing their own shit, like the guy who made all the cyborg zombies, and now the Iron Fathers withdrawing the legion from the Heresy to go all techno-cult. Added to that, we have Moon-man being a rampaging mentalist.
So the IH have fallen apart into internal division and factionalism without a Primarch leadership, rather than turn to Horus.

>Iron Fathers build fake undead version of their Primarch using skeletons and broken body parts. Only his 2 arms were what's been real of him.
> Said Iron Fathers practically friendly fires Meduson to death because "that fucking Terran will doom the Legion."
That's BL, though, not FW.

But yes, GW hates the Iron Hands. FW generally chooses to crap on the DA, however.

Just put a helmet on him if they go with the new NECKBEARD JOHNSON look.

Otherwise, yeah, roll with what you know you enjoy. And you've got a bonus because you can incorporate a metric shit-ton of GW bits

>GW hates the Iron Hands
>mfw they included every single loyalist homeworld in the 8E galaxy map except Medusa

Thanks for the info on the IH, what about the rest of the legions?

I do remember that one terran contingent from from the WS that 'rebelled' during Scars, as well as Terran RG being more friendly with Horus than with Corax and ended up being sent off to do their own thing, and the terran DA getting shat all over by the caliban marines and eventually going fallen, but is there a sort of general 'consensus' on who supported who?

They also only have their initial RoW so far. For all we know they'll get quality units and a second RoW that is solid.

Not really honestly. Terrans usually sided with Terra, but some exceptions were to be had. Men who were handpicked or recruited mostly during their Primarchs crusades usually sided with them.

Obviously this isn’t everyone but it serves as a weird standard of sorts.

Is it even around? It's right next to the Cadian Gate, after all.

They'll still have a shitty LA benefit coupled with a game breaking drawback and specialist equipment which is mostly meh.

>tfw night lords can actually beat dark angels

Unfluffy

Hello. I am Alpharius.

Laurie Goldberg says you are dead.

how do you beat jetbike spam?

40k DA player, been thinking about playing them in HHG. Do they live up to the knightly theme back in the day with Caliban knightly orders and stuff?

They only have their legion rules and wargear, which the gear makes up for lackluster rules. No special units and characters yet. They're focus is on being the first legion and having RoWs that focus on a specific tactics, e.g. Raven wing and iron wing. It'll be the best book they get anything so gotta hold out.

For which faction?

Largely S10, Seekers, Veteran Marksmen, and most AT weaponry will end them.

>For which faction?
Dark angels with land speeders and bikes

Anyone run a Land Raider Achilles? Tempted to pick one up but would love to know peoples experiences with it.

Youre thinking of BL, who absolutely shit all over IH every chance they get.
FW on the other hand gave them pretty great rules and models but like most people they generally forget about them

Moon-man did nothing wrong

DA rules are currently kind of meh. Our Legion benefit is hitting on a 3+ when we have equal WS and are wielding a sword. Our drawback is that the enemy gets d3 VP if they have more units than us at the end of the game.

We get some sweet wargear to compensate, but most of it is really nothing to write home about. One is a salvo 12" platform that can be taken in only 2 units, neither of which have relentless. We get strictly superior power swords, which are available to any characters you'd ever take a power sword on (apothecaries, a single chaplain build.) And we have a two handed greatsword for HQ's that causes ID but only has AP3.

But more importantly we get stasis grenades and missiles that lower a units WS and I. And even more importantly the best heavy bolters in the game, wounding on a 2+ and with AP d6.

Our unique rites are extremely restrictive, but correspondingly powerful.

Yes, this comes up a lot. Guardians need a charge to make the most of them, otherwise they are just inferior Sentinels. The sentinel blade could be said to be roughly equivalent or even slightly superior weapon to the guardian spear already by itself, but the addition of the excellent praesidium shield turns it into a non-contest.
Same in 40k, where Guardians have a slightly stronger gun and +1S, but Sentinels can shoot in melee and have a 3++, which is strictly superior.

...

Normie achillies is a bit overpriced. Alpha is better but still overpriced because its still a land raider

Like the entirety of the Talons list they are a victim of shitawful internal balance.
At the top you have the Caladius, the Telemon and the Agamatus (and arguably the Tribune, but let's not open that particular can of worms here), while the bottom rung is occupied by Sagittarum, Guardians and large swathes of the SoS stuff, with everything else somewhere in between.
Guardians in particular are outperformed by their direct counterpart in every situation as long as you don't spend 600pts for an assault transport, at which point they get one good turn of melee somewhere around turn 3 or so. Meanwhile, Sentinels don't really give a shit about charging or being charged, have Rending at all times and are way more durable to boot.
It doesn't help that one of the guardian spear variant options, the melta spear, is fucking worthless due to its garbage range.

>Sagittarum
Honestly, I think they should just become Troops alongside their bolt caliver becoming 24" Assault 4 and maybe getting Pinning. There is just too much competition in the Heavy slot, plus the anti-infantry shooting angle is also kinda crowded at this point. I'd rather see +6" range on their death rays and play up the versatile angle, allowing for a decent tank-busting and fire support unit in the Troop slot.
And make the Misericordia a actual thing (powerdagger?) so they can finally do something once they inevitably get stuck in melee.
>Aquilon
A buffed Hammer of Wrath would be neat, but I'm not okay with them using a Misericordia, if I'm honest. Terminators should be limited that way, since their hands are always full with their gun and their gauntlet/talon, wielding a dagger alongside those just feels odd.

>The trouble with Salvo at range 36" is that it'd mean 18" range on the move, where the desintegrator almost kicks in.
>It's a really weird spot; 48" when stationary is too much, 18" when moving is too little.
It's not like weapons have to be ranged at 12" intervals, maybe 20/40 is a good middle ground.

>Ravenwing
>Ironwing
Both the DA RoW's are solid.

>we get stasis grenades
Worth noting that these are once per game shot upgrade for combi-grenade launchers

Not a fan, to be honest. Nearly all weapon ranges are in multiples of 6", save for strange shit like volkite. A bolt weapon like the Adrastus Caliver should not deviate from that.

Speaking of Custodes, I finally found a reasonably cheap Ixion Hale on ebay. €55 for a model still in the original box is pretty good after a year or so of nothing below €90.
Pretty happy right now.

I need some help /hhg/
I have a small army of Word Bearers that currently has 40 tactical marines, a plasma support squad, a rhino, 5 tartaros terminators, a command squad, Erebus and Kor Phaeron.
I don't play so I'm all in for fluffy armies, what should I buy next? I was thinking about a box of BaC to use some upgrade kits that I have lying around or a spartan. I also thought of a couple of land raiders

Any ideas?

>I don't play
Go with your heart then.

My heart tells me to buy 20 breachers but they are really expensive and I already have some numbers in infantry.

But breachers look cool!

I know user...

Did you buy it already? That's still pretty expensive.

Breachers.
Buy them from a recaster if you're a bit short on money.

Apparently the advent calendar story for today is about Thunder Warriors. Thought you fags should know, since some of you have a hard on for those generic failures. It's written by Kyme though.

>Did you buy it already?
Yes, snapped it right up, €55 is super-cheap, considering the damn thing alread costs £45 stright from the store.

If you were playing loyalists, I'd recommend kromlech shields, but they're a little too eagle-y for WB...

Breachers then. Maybe 10 from mirandairene and a land raider proteus? I really want to paint a pretty tonk

I mean, I was going to gove you a link to a recaster, but I haven't got my stuff from them yet so I can't confirm their quality. At least yours will be genuine.
If he's good, I'll soon be rolling in Deimos pattern tanks everywhere, they end up being the same price as normal plastic rhinos/predators

cheap-n-fast.com/models

You might want to look into this as well. Can't confirm their quality (yet) but it seems like they're good, they just take a long time for stuff to arrive. I hear my stuff is nearing the western border of mother russia.

I appreciate the sentiment, but I'd rather not have a model at all than use a recaster.
Not begrudging you your models, mind you, it's just not for me.

Those are more expensive than mirandairene but quality might be better. Tell us when your stuff arrives!

We're starting a HH campaign at the store, so I guess I'm now into 30k.
I choose to go with Thousand Sons because warrior-wizards get me rock-hard. I got a box of Betrayal at Calth minus the Contemptor and the marine parts of Burning of Prospero minus Gregor and the tartaros.
Now, a couple of questions:
- How viable are infantry forces? I'm not much into painting vehicles, to be honest.
- Are tectical squads useful? The idea of two blobs of 20 tactical marines is neat.
- What is a sensible loadout for the HQs here? The dude in catphract armor and the chaplain both should be easy enough to convert, so the sky is the limit. Or should I just bring Ahriman?
- Cataphractii as regular terminators or exchange arms to make Sekhmet?

1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Space_Marine_Legion_List_(30k)#XV_Legion:_Thousand_Sons

Yes, I read that and they *are* pretty good by 1d4chan tactica standards, but I'd still prefer some advice on those questions, since they aren't really covered by the tactica.

Anyone got any info on the symbols for the various DA wings? Ironwing, Firewing, etc. Thanks. Have a fat dogge

Anyone read this? Did you like it? I'm no fan of Nick Kyme, but thunder warrior stuff is always neat.

The thunderwarrior crowd will probably wank themselves silly over this.

Why wank to thunder warriors when you got golden boys?

The symbol for the Dreadwing is said to be the same symbol as the Star Phantoms chapter.

No idea, I guess some people just like outdated materiel.

The plot thickens.

Yes at least FW did them justice, Meduson was cool until they fucked him completely. Moon-man is cool too.

Cool. Any other ones? Is ravenwing and deathwing the same?

I'm almost positive it's only one, maybe two anons. The vast majority of the time no one else gets whipped into a frenzy when Thunder Warriors are mentioned. Are Thunder Warriors interesting? Sure. Are they playable? No, because with about 3 exceptions they're all dead. If you're looking to create a snowflake force, there are tons of options that'd still be following canon.

ML Shields on Facebook are stunning.
Prices around £2 each from memory but he has a December catalogue.

The viability of infantry forces depends on what other people in your store's campaign are bringing. There are army builds in 30k (multiple medusas backed up with a load of quad mortars, for example) which will make footslogging infantry completely useless. But if nobody in your group is building their army with a lot of artillery, you should be fine taking a lot of tactical marines.