/swg/ Star Wars General

massdebater
massdebater

Legitimately Badass Phantom Menace scene edition

Last Thread: /tg/thread/56976439#p56976439

Post about FFG, WEG D6, Saga/d20, Lego, X-wing, Armada, Legion, and anything else SW Related

Fantasy Flight Games’ X-Wing and Armada Miniatures Games
http://pastebin.com/Wca6HvBB

Fantasy Flight Games’ SW RPG System (EotE/AoR/FaD)
http://pastebin.com/wCRBdus6

Shipfag's Starship Combat Fixes for EotE/AoR/FaD
http://www.mediafire.com/file/y9w713etmckbs98/Shipfag.JPG
Other FFG SW Tabletop (Imperial Assault, Destiny and the LCG)
http://pastebin.com/ZE4gn0yN
FFG Dice App (Works with X-Wing, Armada, the SW RPG system and Imperial Assault)
http://www.mediafire.com/download/64xy3uy6vepll8v/com.fantasyflightgames.swdice.ver.1.1.4.build.9.apk

Older SW Tabletop (d6, d20/Saga, etc.)
http://pastebin.com/wXP0LdyJ

Reference Materials & Misc. Resources
http://pastebin.com/AGFFkSin

All Canon Novels and Comics (via /co/)
https://mega.nz/#F!kJtCTR7Q!HNUwVc1B8KB2FrD4Twmb7g

The Clone Wars Viewing Guide
http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1442/36/1442364889994.png
Writefaggotry
https://pastebin.com/Un1UhzZ4
Shipfag's hangar
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0ByhAdnTlOKOeQnA4SFByUC1aQWM&usp=sharing

Heroes of the Aturi Cluster, co-op X-Wing campaign
http://dockingbay416.com/campaign

Without insulting each other, what are your thoughts on The Last Jedi?

All urls found in this thread:
http://pastebin.com/Wca6HvBB
http://pastebin.com/wCRBdus6
http://www.mediafire.com/file/y9w713etmckbs98/Shipfag.JPG
http://pastebin.com/ZE4gn0yN
http://www.mediafire.com/download/64xy3uy6vepll8v/com.fantasyflightgames.swdice.ver.1.1.4.build.9.apk
http://pastebin.com/wXP0LdyJ
http://pastebin.com/AGFFkSin
https://mega.nz/#F!kJtCTR7Q!HNUwVc1B8KB2FrD4Twmb7g
http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1442/36/1442364889994.png
https://pastebin.com/Un1UhzZ4
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0ByhAdnTlOKOeQnA4SFByUC1aQWM&usp=sharing
http://dockingbay416.com/campaign
https://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1513556943057.webm
https://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1513541365386.webm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV_rfbnEzjk&t=600s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgRFQJCHcPw
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Clone_assassin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRgcC9eqEJg
https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/fb/b4/fbb4f847-b3f8-4fcd-8724-cb03f67c26b5/swx36_learntoplay.pdf
https://youtu.be/GF0rqlgdaHM?t=24s
Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@massdebater
I've not seen it and I refuse to speak on the matterrace until I do.

That said I do want to see more battle droids, I figured that post TFA the resistance would be looking for mothballed seperstists hardware to shore up theit forces with.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@massdebater
Without insulting each other, what are your thoughts on The Last Jedi?
Some good melee fights and space battles (although Kylo apparently inherited his grandfather's liking for unnecessary spinning), pretty much everyone has character flaws this time around, a couple cohesive themes, good music (although for SW that's usually a given), a couple instances of annoying plot-armour, some good jokes

takes2long
takes2long

/tg/thread/56976439#p56982280
Alliance Privateers, I shouldn't have to say anything more.

Also, when it comes to the Force you can do many things with it if you remember that there's more to it than just the Jedi and Sith. Make up as many new Force traditions as you want, go crazy with the powers as long as you don't go too OP with them.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@King_Martha
SPINNING
IT'S A GOOD TRICK

StonedTime
StonedTime

@massdebater
so /swg/, what are you flying for X-wing?

I'm flying Optics+VI Quickdraw and 2 HLC/Crack/LRS/Linked Gunboats, and need to get top 8 at the IL regional for dice.

I went undefeated and beat some good players yesterday, but I didn't fight more than 1 ship that has a win condition of "Always kite, never engage" (A Nym who died in the opening engage)

How would I go about being able to beat ships like Dash, Miranda, Nym, etc?

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@massdebater

Without insulting each other, what are your thoughts on The Last Jedi?

I really liked it. I would say that it was crazy dense, to the point where I feel like a couple of the storylines could/should have been cut, but I can see why they did it the way they did since they wanted their entire ensemble cast of Main Characters (Po, Finn, Rey, Luke and Kylo) to all have a meaningful journey.

It suffered from Multiple Endings Syndrome, which isn't my favorite thing, but every ending pretty effectively raised the stakes so its better than a lot of movies that suffer from it.

People seem very upset about Luke, but I honestly think he was perhaps the best part of the movie. Seeing him so broken down and his training with Rey to illustrate exactly WHY he's lost all hope and written off the Jedi and the Universe was really effective, and it made his return and his fantastic final confrontation with Kylo that much better.

Overall I'd give it a solid B+. Big step forward from Force Awakens, and a welcome one. It didn't need the STAR WARS IS BACK hype to cover its flaws the way that movie did, and it didn't rely on being a soft reboot or any other of the lazy shit we were afraid of.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@massdebater
Without insulting each other, what are your thoughts on The Last Jedi?
Some individual good scenes, a lot of pointless scenes, not enough to tie the good scenes together into a coherent whole. It looked and sounded great, though, and the good scenes were enough to make it watchable. It was a decent movie, worth the price of the movie ticket, but nothing special.

MPmaster
MPmaster

@massdebater
Without insulting each other, what are your thoughts on The Last Jedi?
I thought the point by point plot was kind of stupid, but thoroughly enjoyed the character and emotional arcs. Rey and Kylo Ren were redeemed as characters in my eyes. It wasn't the best Star Wars movie ever, but it pushed it in a bold direction, with some incredible high points. The movie was packed full of great little character moments, even Hux gets a fun moment of characterization. I particularly liked how much character they conveyed without dialogue.

I thought I'd hate what they did with Luke based off spoilers, but ended up really enjoying it. Hamill is an underrated talent.

5mileys
5mileys

Brainlet here. Is the hyperspace kamikaze actually plausible in the lore?

idontknow
idontknow

@5mileys
it's an object moving at relativistic speeds so sure, why not

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@5mileys
NU-lore, yes.

EU-lore, no.

Nearly every ship in the entire galaxy came standard with tech that prevented that exact scenario from happening as early as KOTOR, so long, long, long before the GCW.

Methnerd
Methnerd

I do think a bit of the backlash is because the movie wasn't the one anons had built in their heads more than the movie itself being bad, if they weren't going in ready to despise anything 'Mouse Wars' from the get go. The fact it does have some glaring weaknesses gives people already in a negative frame of mind something to latch onto and get really fanatical about.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@5mileys
Not in the old lore but now it apparently is. It's probably a huge war crime so that's why they didn't do it before.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@5mileys

Sure.

Assuming she hits the ship before entering hyperspace, rather than having entered.
At that point its just a very massive thing going relativistic.
Which is perfectly plausible.

Used to be that shields stopped that from being a thing.
So i mean, you couldnt hyperspace kamikaze a TIE fighter if you were really fucking insane.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Emberburn

Logically speaking, very few battles in Star Wars take place in random deep space. They're always fighting around something of value, which makes sense of course. Considering the scale of the damage when she did the ram, you could devastate multiple planets with EASE. So yeah, SUPER War Crime.

Also, I thought the only thing that stopped you from ramming things with hyperspace in the old canon was a safety shutoff if the sensors detect strong gravity. Surely it's not difficult to shut such a thing off?

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Emberburn
a huge war crime

No one would give a shit if you could literally destroy any ship of any size by sending a tiny fighter into hyperspace after it. The Empire and Rebellion should've been fielding nothing but AI-piloted speed vessels to hyperspace into each other.

NU has completely ruined the concept of naval warfare in Star Wars.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@Stupidasole
You're assuming size isn't a factor in the destructive potential of a hyperdrive kamikaze.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Stupidasole

So you say that the only reason it worked is because she was using a capital ship and anything smaller the ship's shields can take it. It's not like technology in Star Wars isn't pure fantasy bullshit anyway, as long as the logic follows on a basic level (smaller ship = no work, big ship = work!) nobody will care.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@5mileys
Not in the old EU, where if you hit the mass shadow of a realspace object in hyperspace you were toast and it wouldn't even notice. You also couldn't hyperspace into or out of gravity wells
Also ships going to hyperspace *didn't* actually do any accelerating to get there, it was a dimensional shift, not actual FTL travel

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@massdebater
Without insulting each other, what are your thoughts on The Last Jedi?
- The Character Assasination Of Luke Skywalker By The Coward Mouse
- Introduces a literally universe-breaking weapon technology that invalidates any and all past and future fleet engagements AND superweapons as retarded
- Superleia
- Dropped plotlines everywhere

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@SniperGod
A loosely related thought, but one of my biggest gripes with the EU was efforts by some writers to bring more hard science into a space fantasy franchise.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@massdebater
Very inconsistent as a movie, plots than could be trimed enterily, derivative desings than look worse than the originals (gorilla At-ats or the super star destroyers of the FO), Rey mary suism was explained in a way than couldn't be stupider (she is a counter balance to Kylo, but beats him even when the later has been trained be the two best masters of the force alive?), marvel humor, the porgs didn't bother me tough, the legacy characters misused, Hamill hobo ways was fun but they destroyed Luke characters for me.
Also embarassing memes like Milkies luke or Carrie poppins will haunt this movie forever.
Good points perhaps the visuals were stuning, the music was okay but I really don't remember any piece in particular than it's new, Kylo actor is pretty good tough he is ugly as sin, if it wasn't for the end than goes again retard evil it would have been a stellar perfomance, Fin moments were wasted, specially the last one, Phasma was a meme again without consecuences, Rey wasn't as grating as the first one but still doesn't click to me, Poe it's mixed to me,I don't care for the humor, but the character is endearing, tough his plot was superfluos.
Tl:DR, Mixed as a movie, horrible SW one for me, if it was a parody I would have believed it.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@StrangeWizard
That's not a bad thing to do though.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Fuzzy_Logic
she is a counter balance to Kylo, but beats him even when the later has been trained be the two best masters of the force alive?
The movie went out of its way to tell you why she beat him.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Sir_Gallonhead
A single cruiser destroyed an entire fleet with the most massive ship in the universe already super populated with stupidily hugh ships, any corvetter could destroy entire fleets of ISD, and a space fighter kamikaze rune would beat any capital ship.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@Boy_vs_Girl
That's not a bad thing to do though.
No, it is, it really is.

It goes hand in hand with turning Star Wars into a purely military sci-fi franchise instead of a fantasy one, which makes it that little bit more generic and ignores the best qualities of the films.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Carnalpleasure
That's an assumption based on nothing.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@SniperGod

We've always see ships accelerate and decelerate into/out of hyperspace in the Main Series though.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Firespawn
Star Wars doesn't have to be 100% fantasy though. Nothing is lost by adding science. If anything, it adds to it. Nothing takes you out of immersion faster than an explanation to something being "uhhhhhhhhh space fantasy roll with it".

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Firespawn
That's fucking BS. The only thing that they tried to explain is why you can't hyperspace ram a planet. Even the original movies explained why you had to punch in coordinates before you went into hyperspace.

idontknow
idontknow

@haveahappyday
It did? When?

likme
likme

@Garbage Can Lid
Yes, the movies did the bare minimum. We don't need autistic details that turn the book into an essay on fake science.

@Lunatick
Because midiclorians were a great idea. Plenty is lost when you start getting caught up on the science of the thing rather than the romance of it.

Techpill
Techpill

@idontknow
When Snoke is giving Kylo Ren shit.

Its like you guys don't pay attention. Same with the 'Luke burned the books' group.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Lunatick

I really love the Star Wars EU and have for more than 20 years, but I have to agree with that guy to a point, especially since a lot of the complaints about the new trilogy and canon is related to perceived "betrayals," of that tradition of harder science and military fiction taking precedence over fantasy elements.

You're right that more reality and rules and focus on the human element over the more airy things can help ground the fantasy and make it better, it certainly did in the Thrawn Trilogy and many other great EU materials. But on the other hand an excess of reality and rules and the human element over the fairy tale can also get you Medichlorians and Schmi Skywalker's death by implied rape.

Maybe the Nucanon is going too far the other way, but I would question strongly if I believe that because I literally grew up on the EU rather than because the EU is the objectively better way to go about things.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@DeathDog
Based in how fucking powerful the hyperspace kamikaze atack was, destroying an entire fleet of giga-ships (seriously, the smallest one was several km long here), the Raddus is about 3-4 km long, and apart of destroying a 50km ship, mauled all the other around him. It's very stupid to think than people like the separatist or the rebels wouldn't use that kind of power before, if only you need a space ships with a hyperspace drive. Heck, it makes any owner of a space ship the equivalent of a nuke, after the filmd do you start to wonder why doesn't any isis tier group go wild destroying everything.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@massdebater
It just felt small and largely inconsequential. The only new things we learn are the answers to why Luke fucked off and who Rey's parents are. Barely anything is expanded upon from TFA and very little is set up for 9. And on top of that it really doesn't stand on its own for me.

Also the scale is utterly fucked. I get wanting to make them the underdogs, but having the entire resistance being able to fit on the Falcon while the FO completely conquers the galaxy off screen is pretty stupid.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@Techpill
Er, Snoke just berates him for being pathetic. That's not an explanation you Muppet.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@massdebater
This thread has been taken over by /tv/

When will the normal discussion resume?

RavySnake
RavySnake

@massdebater
It's one of those films than the more you start to think, the more stupid it all seems. Even if the first impression is great because it has some good moments.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@TalkBomber
? We are answering the Op, no one is insulting anyone and at least they put (half backed some) arguments about why they didn't ir did like the movie.
Unless you are paid be disney I don't see why would you say that honestly.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@GoogleCat
I don't give two shits about the EU, most of it was hot garbage anyway. The movie was bad because it was a incoherent mess of random scenes, incongruous character development and behavior and grinding, clashing tonal misteps. It's soulless, bloated and poorly written.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@kizzmybutt

Why is it whenever characters in a fantasy/scifi movie do something incredibly desperate and crazy the first question nerds always as is "Well why don't they ALWAYS do that?"

The answer is because it was desperate and crazy, and normally circumstances are not so desperate/crazy as to require it. The Rebel Alliance was never literally 10 blaster shots away from being erased, or maybe they would have rammed Home One right through the Executor and her escort fleet. And the Seperatists were being actively controlled in such a way so as to NOT win the war because, in case we've forgotten, their leader was a Sith Lord apprenticed to the Sith Lord controlling the Republic, and the entire Clone War was a meaningless farce.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Emberburn
@CodeBuns
war crime
That's a bad excuse and you know it. The first movie of the series had the bad guys build a planet-destroying superweapon and use it on an inhabited planet, they clearly didn't give a shit. You're telling me the Empire, the First Order, whatever previous assholes and not even some random terrorists never did it? Instead of wasting money on the Death Star they should've just made a huge stockpile of droid-piloted hyperdrive torpedoes, or picked up a bunch of asteroids and built hyperdrives and navigation systems on them. Enough firepower to destroy every inhabited planet in the galaxy several times over, with an uncounterable weapon and much lower budget.

@DeathDog
If you look at what the collision does, it looks like the impact zone disintegrates straight into plasma or something, and showers the entire fleet with junk moving at high enough speeds to do the same thing to anything it collides into. You have to be going at relativistic speeds to do that, and that would be extremely painful beyond anything that's reasonable in a sci-fi setting like Star Wars.

Inmate
Inmate

@Supergrass

...okay, but we were specifically talking about the balance between science fiction and fantasy and hard military fiction vs romantic fantasy in the story structures of Star Wars, so what you just posted was a total non-sequitur. Thanks though?

likme
likme

@haveahappyday
"War crime" is a terrible excuse. Ever military and their mother would be using that tactic with AI fighters if they could spend 1,000 credits to take down an entire capital ship instantly.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Techpill
Luke (and the audience at the time) didn't know Rey took the books when he went to burn down the trees. He wanted to destroy them, but chickened out. Yoda did know that Rey had the books, but decided to fuck with Luke instead. The audience doesn't learn what was really going on until the end of the movie.

Also, to be fair, you only see the books in the drawer for a second or two. It's not terribly unreasonable to miss it.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@massdebater
It was painfully forgettable. I'd rather have a garbage fire like The Holiday Special than the forgettable stuff Disney's been putting out

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@haveahappyday

The Death Star's purpose was more than blowing up planets, it was intimidation. Also the Empire didn't fucking want to blow planets up, they wanted to exploit them.

The First Order has less of an excuse, but unless I'm mistaken they ALSO wanted to exploit planets rather than blowing them up. Going on a mindless crusade of blowing up as many planets as possible doesn't actually get you anything, using a Super Weapon as a symbol of fear and absolute destructive power at your whim does.

The Vong were a lot closer to the mindset you're talking about, and they more or less DID destroy planets whenever they came across them, just in a productive way.

Ramming star destroyers into planets just to watch them burn is not a productive enterprise. It doesn't require a huge justification as why it was not done.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@haveahappyday
or picked up a bunch of asteroids and built hyperdrives and navigation systems on them

Din't some book or video game actually do something like this? I could have sworn this was a plot point of some significance.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@GoogleCat
Star Wars was and is deeply rooted in the pulp heritage of Space Opera. Good people getting swept up into big, galaxy-spanning events against powerful evil with strange, often mystical powers at play.

Pulp is founded on telling exciting, crowd-pleasing stories, so familiar archetypes rooted in ancient myth work as excellent shorthand.

The Best of the EU embraces that (the Zahn, Stackpole, Allston trinity along with others) to its benefit.

Even the Prequels, as broken and awkward as they are, work as Space Opera at the basic, gut level where your mind can fill in the blanks of Anakin & Padme's badly-written romance.

In "overturning every cliche" of Space Opera in the name of being modern and clever, The Last Jedi ends up being a smug rejection of everything that made Star Wars work in the first place.

This is also why the grittiness of the Vong turned so many people away. It didn't fit with the themes of high adventure and heroism innate in Space Opera.

But even the Vong didn't feel nearly as insulting, because in the end, we all knew they would be defeated through determination and heroism.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@haveahappyday
In "overturning every cliche" of Space Opera in the name of being modern and clever,
I don't feel it did this at all. If anything I felt it re-embraced the genre after JJ's cynical rehash of a New Hope.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Soft_member
I might be completely misremembering and making this up, but didn't they do that during the attack on the Maw Installation? They rigged up some of the asteroid facilities to ram into the attacking ships or something?

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@massdebater
What do you guys think of star wars Legion?
Are the rules too simple?
Will it be properly supported?
How popular will it be?

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@massdebater
The last jedi was terrible. They completely shit on Luke and his entire character progression over 3 movies.
Worst star wars movie ever.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@haveahappyday
It didn't fit with the themes of high adventure and heroism innate in Space Opera.

But many people loved the Vong for that exact reason.

Not everyone sees space opera the same as you do, and not everyone sees your idea of space opera as a good or bad thing, depending on the person.

It's a very vague and intangible genre with so many different ways of execution that many people have different ideas on how it should be, and I don't feel it's fair to lock it down to one specific way of executing a plot and saying everything else beyond that is bad.

If anything the new movies are closer to your definition of space opera than the OT was, and quite a few people hate the new films while loving the old ones.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Emberfire
The idea I'm remembering was using asteroids as artillery, and basically using a fuck huge mass driver to accomplish it. Does that ring any bells?

massdebater
massdebater

@Garbage Can Lid
the lengths people will go to to defend TLJ

Inmate
Inmate

@haveahappyday

I don't agree that Last Jedi is overturning every cliche or abandoning the core elements of Space Opera at all. It certainly plays with them, it certainly toys with our emotions and expectations a ton (the criminal betrays the heroes for money and gets no comeuppance even after he returns the beloved heirloom struck me as a big one). But the core of the movie is very much the redemption of a broken hero, another hero learning an important lesson about leadership and why he was wrong about things, a third hero learning things he didn't know about the plight of society at large, and the Main Hero and Main Villain going through an emotional clash of personal feelings and ideals. All against the backdrop of a powerful, implacible evil relentlessly chasing our ragtag heroes to the point of exhausting every single resource they have and leaving them on the brink of defeat, only for them to rise up using cleverness, love and hope.

If all of that isn't Space Opera, I don't know what is. Did they "modernize," it? Yes. Did they "Marvel," it up? I might be willing to say they did, and even went too far in doing it. Did they betray everything that made Star Wars, all the goodness of classic pulp fiction? Not on your life.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@Garbage Can Lid
Implying Saw Gerrera wouldn't have been all over that shit

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@Inmate
implacible evil
Are you on drugs?

farquit
farquit

@Inmate
How much do they pay to post this garbage user? You can tell us.

askme
askme

@farquit
Not enough.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@Snarelure
Heroism is actively and repeatedly punished at every turn in this movie.

Every time anyone tries to do anything heroic, they are either slapped down by somebody else, it ends in failure, or it seems to work, only for it not to and a whole bunch of people end up dying anyway.

@Inmate
Redemption of a broken hero
There was nothing telegraphed in TFA about Luke being broken and out of character in any way. And what redemption is there for him? The movie tells the audience that his heroic legacy is a fraud.

an important lesson about leadership and why he was wrong about things
Holdo lying to Poe and constantly berating him for wanting to take action while his comrades in arms are dying all around him would only work if Holdo was a FO spy. Poe's mutiny is totally justified thanks to her incompetence.

Plight of society at large
Finn grew up in literal slavery as a child soldier with a serial number instead of a name, but yeah, don't treat animals badly, or something.

Sorry Rian, I'm not buying it.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@farquit

If they were paying me I wouldn't tell you to go fuck yourself with a rake.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@TreeEater

Heroism is actively and repeatedly punished at every turn in this movie.

No, Heroism is redefined. Finn trying to be "noble," by running into the superlaser wasn't heroic, especially when you can compare it DIRECTLY to the kamikaze attack that happened just minutes earlier. He was throwing his life away because he was desperate and hopeless, where as Holdo sacrificed herself to keep hope alive. Po's mutiny was stupid, he was basically throwing a tantrum because he was being kept in the loop and personally placated. People in this movie are not punished for being heroic, they're punished for being faux-heroic.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@GoogleCat
@Techpill
Wait, what? Did she take the books? I missed that, too

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Snarelure
They were on the Falcon at the end.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@TreeEater

So because Luke's being broken wasn't telegraphed it was bad? Also, his legacy was a fraud? Did you watch this movie? Rey spends the entire time telling him his legacy WASN'T a fraud, he is lying TO HIMSELF with all those "lessons," because he made a huge god damn mistake (giving in to instinct and thinking of killing Kylo) and was punishing himself for it.

I could keep responding to more of your points but like, holy shit, why bother if you're going to be so ignorant of even basic text in the film.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Spamalot
No, Heroism is redefined.
they're punished for being faux-heroic.

Ah, good. The mask slips.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@Spamalot
This pretty much. I am fucking sure this thread is invaded by a mix of RLM /tv/ fags and spacebattle fuckers at this point.

massdebater
massdebater

So, was thinking to make a space opera game based on d6, but before starting the autistic task to port stuff, what are the more glaring faults of the system?

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@TreeEater
Finn being an indoctrinated child soldier is easily the most glossed over element in these movies. You could tell me he was just a random dude who got shanghaied by the First Order a bit before TFA starts and I'd have no reason to disbelieve you. In fact, it would make significantly more sense all things considered.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Fried_Sushi

It's not like being intentionally obtuse to justify blind hatred of the NuCanon (or "rethinking," of the Prequels) is anything new to this thread. Though there are definitely /tv/ fuckers around, and they're not helping.

Emberfire
Emberfire

The F&D beginner module seems kind of lame. Should I use the AoR one instead?

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Fried_Sushi
@Carnalpleasure
stop disliking what i like you *insert buzzword here*

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@TreeEater
Holdo did nothing wrong and only an inebriated hick who has never had a strategic thought in his life would think otherwise. He was a massive fucking risk, considering the moment he doesn't agree with his superior's plans he just fucking ignores them (IE refusing Leia's order to fall back).

whereismyname
whereismyname

@kizzmybutt

I don't think I've ever seen any media do "child soldier grown up," particularly well. Finn's past works by allowing his ignorance of the world at large, which they've used in both movies to at least make some kind of point (and a better point than I usually see in random/shoehorned Fish Out Of Water subplots)

Nojokur
Nojokur

@BinaryMan
It's not even out yet

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@SniperWish
The lady doth protest too much me thinks.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@Supergrass

He also only had a couple small snubfighters.
And if he allahu ackbars them, he cant do anything anymore becuase now he has zero ships.

Inmate
Inmate

tfw franchise isn’t over

Skullbone
Skullbone

@VisualMaster
Holdo did nothing wrong
Holdo did everything fucking wrong, and her own plan ended up getting more transports destroyed because the First Order realized what she was up to when the transports launched.

Her one redeeming act was to take actual initiative and ram her ship into the Freudian Nightmare instead of waiting for it to run out of gas, which saves the rebels.

Also, what kind of self-respecting admiral doesn't wear a uniform?

Emberfire
Emberfire

@whereismyname
I don't think I've ever seen any media do "child soldier grown up," particularly well.
tfw Kojima will never be handed a blank check, the Star Wars license, and a command from on high to go absolutely nuts

SniperWish
SniperWish

@VisualMaster
If he was that much of a risk they should have put him in the brig. Also notice how they didn't say shit to him after the mutiny was over so obviously they didn't care about 90% of the resistance being killed because of it. Poe was retarded for getting the bomber squadron killed but Holdo was fucking worse.

FastChef
FastChef

@Skullbone
because the First Order realized what she was up to when the transports launched.

BECAUSE THE FUCKING HACKER GAVE AWAY THEIR POSITION AFTER SHE ABANDONED SHIP, WHICH WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED IF POE JUST FUCKING SAT ON HIS ASS AND DIDN'T SEND FINN ON A WILD GOOSE CHASE.

JunkTop
JunkTop

@Emberfire
Psycho mantis wasn't a child soldier. He was a criminal profiler for serial killers.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@Skullbone

General Dodonna never wore a uniform. Old man robes all the way.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@kizzmybutt
That’s a weird thing. On one hand, he’s supposed to be indoctrinated yet he acts no different from anybody else. He does defect for killing innocents but he’s perfectly alright with blowing stormtroopers and other FO people in the tower without the slightest attachment to what were former allies.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@SniperWish
Fucking see: @FastChef

Did you literally miss the entire reason the hacker got to fucking leave unharmed and payed?

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Emberfire
Anyone know a good way to start a beginner campaign that mixes F&D, EotE, and AoR?

MPmaster
MPmaster

@JunkTop

MGSV showed that he was a child soldier.

Now that that guy mentioned it though, Raiden and Liquid are both really cool Was Once A Child Soldier characters. Although I shudder to think what Kojima might actually do with the Star Wars universe...

Spamalot
Spamalot

@Need_TLC
Implying Saw wouldn't or couldn't just hijack a civilian freighter to do it

Rebels is still going. I wonder if Saw trying to orchestrate space 9/11 is going to be a plot at some point.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@BunnyJinx

It was a uniform and had his rank badge on it.
More than Holdo does.

Which is a shame, because i wanted to like her.

5mileys
5mileys

@CodeBuns
I basically echo this entire post.

It had pacing issues and inconsistencies that prevent it from being great, but the Luke/Rey/Kylo core of the movie is really good, it had cool visuals and used music much better than TFA, and all the performances were rock solid.

A lot of people seem burned that it's not the movie they expected/wanted more than anything.

@Methnerd
People that don't watch a lot of movies (most people) tend to be far more distracted by plot holes, and TLJ has a lot of those.

@BinaryMan
I'm cautiously excited

@Fried_Sushi
people who like thing I don't I like are either paid shills or from another board

takes2long
takes2long

@FastChef
And if Tumblr Admiral told Poe Leia's plan he never would have had to send Finn on a "wild goose chase" dumbass. When Leia revealed the plan he agreed it was a good idea. Why should he and his men trust a purple haired bitch that doesn't wear a uniform. For all he knew she could have been a spy giving away their location to Hux

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@FastChef
So why didn't she pull him into the hallway and just fucking say "I know you want to do something, but I have a plan, and I need you to sit tight. Leia trusts me. I need you to trust me too."

Then we could've avoided an entirely pointless half hour running around Space Monaco and we could actually feel bad for Holdo when she dies instead of thinking she's a spiteful bitch.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@MPmaster
MGSV was a shit show with good gameplay that retconned Psycho Mantis completely

Methnerd
Methnerd

I'm still mad how they killed admiral Ackbar.
He should have been the one to do the suicide run.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@MPmaster
Although I shudder to think what Kojima might actually do with the Star Wars universe
Finn and Poe get a secret handshake.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@takes2long
" Why should he and his men trust a purple haired bitch that doesn't wear a uniform. "
tumblr

Nice buzzword. And why was Poe entitled to that information exactly, when he showed that he wouldn't follow orders if he disagreed with them?

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@5mileys
It had pacing issues and inconsistencies that prevent it from being great, but the Luke/Rey/Kylo core of the movie is really good, it had cool visuals and used music much better than TFA, and all the performances were rock solid.

It's especially aggravating that the entire bad B and C plots could have been avoided if that useless bitch with the purple hair had told Poe they were making their way to an old Rebel base.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Supergrass

They don't indoctrinate them into total robots. We see a fair share of personality from other Stormtroopers, including good old TR-8R. The implication is his loyalty got snapped by seeing his buddy die at the start of TFA.

Which isn't unreasonable, real reports of Child Soldiers mention those that occasionally break free of their conditioning because of particular trauma. They're a minority but... hey, Finn is just one trooper.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Stupidasole
My bad I'm getting paranoid with /co/ and this thread with all the movie arguments

Tbh any efforts to talk about the thread's topic is snuffed by the film but it's to be expected. Similar thing happened last year with R1.

I confess that I actually like Rogue One much MUCH more than TLJ

Supergrass
Supergrass

@5mileys
I literally didn't accuse you of being a shill, lel.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@AwesomeTucker
There is nothing wrong with that. The only people that dislike R1 are dishonest RLMdrones and salty empirefags

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@LuckyDusty
And why was Poe entitled to that information exactly
He's a Commander (Leia seems to backtrack immediately on his demotion when they get attacked) and the ranking starfighter officer. which makes him part of High Command by default. So yes, he is entitled to know.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@AwesomeTucker
I was initially lukewarm, grew into bitterness about TFA. I despised RO day one. But I will admit that both, particularly RO, are better than TLJ. As bad as I found those films, they at least had a basic structure, the bare minimum of writing and script direction, and a vaguely cohesive story. TLJ is all over the place and it seems more obvious than ever that Disney threw shit at the wall and whatever stuck they took it with the intent to just remake ESB even more than TFA remade ANH.

TFA and RO are shit, TLJ is a shit taken by a shit.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@lostmypassword
In all honestly I kinda agree with you, but my main problem is that seeing her as a bad commander/ "spiteful bitch" is completely forgetting the fact that Poe was already a loose canon. Besides, I think Holdo was definitely more of an boardroom commander who was promoted past her usefulness in the emergency, and wasn't really suited for the job. Basically I'm defending her actions but not really condoning them either.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@LuckyDusty
I don't know how about the being the person responsible for the resistance current existence?

TreeEater
TreeEater

@haveahappyday
Shit, I'm an EUfag and thought R1 was the only good Disney Star Wars movie.

New TIEs
New Stormie variants

As a sourcebook of shit to loot, its great.

The sequel trilogy is a vast wasteland.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@takes2long

When her name gets said as the next in the line of succession, Poe immediately recognizes it as the name of a war hero. He cites to a famous battle she won. Also he and his men are not fucking entitled to have the plans of the top brass explained to them just to soothe their egos. They're job is to protest orders they think are bad all the way to the point of insubordination, and then when their objections are rejected to carry them out without question.

The fact that you think "a purple haired bitch that doesn't wear a uniform," should have to hand-hold a soldier under her command through her stratagems shows your laughable ignorance of proper military conduct. It's also why Poe got shat on by the narrative: he was being a shitty soldier, and was karmically punished for it in a way that ought to make Lucas proud.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@haveahappyday
disliking a bad movie makes you a *buzzword*

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@AwesomeTucker
TLJ is an actually good movie and Rogue One is an actually bad movie, though

@Dreamworx
It's crazy how many people are complaining about plot holes that aren't plot holes. It's not like the movie doesn't have plenty of real ones to complain about.

For example, not plot holes (explained in the movie):
why the First Order didn't call in reinforcements to head off the Resistance
Holdo's plan being a good one

Genuine plot holes:
Leia sensing Kylo's reluctance to blow her up yet later saying she's sure Ben is gone
in space, being "faster" apparently means "maintaining a constant but long distance"
Holdo not just telling Poe the plan

TechHater
TechHater

@TreeEater
This is my major grip with the disney films.
I can endure shitty writing, plot holes bigger than the star killer base, Tumblr mouse shenaningans. But give me cool desings at least. Give me something where is it possible to build something. The prequels, for all they flak they got (lot of it rightly so) were full of new imaginery, machines, alien species, space ships and whatever. NU canon time skip is bare as fuck and incredible boring.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Bidwell
TLJ is much better than TFA. TLJs rehashing of ESB is not nearly as obvious and hamfisted as TFA rehashing ANH.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Emberfire
Poe got shat on by the narrative because He's A Fucking Man.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@Gigastrength
These would be excellent story points and in a better script would have been made clear.
Also, I thought Poe & Holdo actually had some chemistry together, which could've added some needed romantic tension, especially when she makes the choice to ram the ship,
which would've helped Poe become more thoughtful about his actions.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@ZeroReborn
That doesn't really justify him acting like a completely normal dude. Almost nothing about his actions or mannerisms say "child soldier" or even "guy with a fucked up upbringing".

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@SomethingNew
It really wasn't a backtrack of the demotion as t was a delay to it, considering being under direct fire is not really the time to restructure command.

takes2long
takes2long

@Need_TLC
Because he's there for the black audience. If he's not a Tyler Perry-tier black guy then it's all for nothing.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Emberfire
Yeah and if the R1 crew listened to the top brass we would still have a Galatic Empire. Fuck off they are a rebellion and following orders blindly is what the Empire/FO does.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@TurtleCat
Why didn't the First Order have an Interdictor? Shit, why doesn't the Supremacy have its own gravity well projector built in?

Why didn't they scramble their fighters immediately when they dropped into the system?

Why is their big "base-killer" ship equipped with absurdly few point-defense guns when Rebel/Resistance doctrine is famously built around snubfighter operations?

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Bidwell
following orders from your superiors is something only one military does!

wat

WebTool
WebTool

@takes2long
Most black people myself included don't actually like Finn all that much. A lot of my normie friends felt kind of shafted when he ended up being lame comic relief instead of a Jedi that gets to be trained by Luke.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@PackManBrainlure
Why didn't the First Order have an Interdictor? Shit, why doesn't the Supremacy have its own gravity well projector built in?

This is my biggest problem with the film.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@WebTool
Well yeah, he's there for the black audience, according to (((Disney))).

Supergrass
Supergrass

@StonedTime
If your problem with the film has nothing to do with the film itself, you're not really giving it a fair chance, are you?

I mean, if you tell me this is a sushi restaurant and then serve me a hamburger, I'm probably gonna be unhappy. But that doesn't mean it's a bad hamburger, it might be a fantastic hamburger if given a chance.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@Garbage Can Lid
Institutionalized suicide attacks are fairly common, from kamikazes to the Tamil Tigers and ISIS. It absolutely hurts the SW naval paradigm unnecessarily, retroactively putting all sorts of plotholes into the past films.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@TechHater

There are tons of new aliens in the Nu trilogy, to the point that it kind of felt obnoxious to me, like they had to have a Cantina Scene once per hour. And there are plenty of cool new vehicles, the fact that some of them are marginal upgrades to existing designs rather than something radically different doesn't make them bad.

If there's one thing the Prequels are bare on, it's cool new planets. We either see too much of them or not enough of them to spark the imagination. Jakku we basically got everything cool that could be mined from such a backwater, Ireland Island Planet and Monocco Planet and Bar In A Forest Planet we just didn't get to see enough to imagine much in the way of possibilities.

Thankfully other parts of the Disney Canon like Rogue One and Rebels have picked up a lot of the slack there.

girlDog
girlDog

@New_Cliche
I utterly despise your ship.

Yeah. I do think that the script they had was hinting at some deeper conflict, IE there being chaos on board after Leia, the person holding everything together, gets knocked unconscious. It needed better fleshing out.

Overall, I think the rebellion got the short end of the stick though. Akbar being killed off still fucking enrages me.

massdebater
massdebater

@Supergrass
dumb shit happens in a movie full of plot holes
"J-just give it a chance, it's not bad you're just being unfair!"

Holy shit. I've never seen this level of straw-grasping to defend a bad movie.

idontknow
idontknow

@girlDog

GOTTA KILL OFF THE OLD
ACCEPT THE NEW
CLAP WHEN YOU SEE SOMETHING

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@massdebater
The good:
The throne room fight
Opening straight to a space battle. That entire battle was pretty great.
Old curmudgeon Luke (I actually liked it for some reason but I think that's just because I like cynic characters)
The visuals of the salt speeders
Costume design
Music
The cat-horse animals looked cute I guess
Almost every scene with Kylo Ren
Green milk
Benicio Del Toro
The pull of the dark side on Rey - tempting her the answer to her question about her parents rather than the light side option of her simply moving on. Feels very Force and Destiny.

The bad:
Astral Projection Luke
Finn and Rose's complete waste of time onscreen.
Vice-Admiral Horseshit. Everything about her. Why not just recycle Ackbar if he's going to die anyway?
Obligatory 2 Chinese hero actors so they can show it in China.
The Porgs in all of their comic relief scenes.
The BB-8 Walker.

The Ugly:
SuperLeia
Tracking bullshit (A setting must adhere to the laws of its own universe. Creating a problem with the laws just to right them again is dumb.)
"Pull back the fighters." Since when do you guys care about your TIE fighters?
3 ships left in the entire Republic? I thought you guys were the ruling faction. How the fuck did you lose a galaxy's worth of ships?
As cool as the hyperspace collison was, if it was that effective why isn't this the primary way of combatting fleets and capital ships?

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Bidwell

The Rogue One crew were paralyzed by political leaders, not military ones. The military leaders (Blue Leader was a general, Raddus was the fleet's top Admiral) were both behind the plan and went right in after them. Also Mon Mothma, the actual civilian Commander-in-Chief, also agreed with the attack and was only acting like she didn't to placate her chickenshit council who didn't REALLY have the authority to stop her.

So nice try, but NOPE.

Evilember
Evilember

@massdebater
How is that a plot hole?

Interdictors are never mentioned in the film or any of the previous films. You're bringing something from outside the movie into it.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Fried_Sushi
I'll take /tv/ memers over unfunny spacebattles realismfags any day.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@SniperWish
I would too, but..../tv/ memes are kill by mods.

TechHater
TechHater

@Lunatick
I agree that R1 and Rebels did add some cool source material, but both of them are pretty terrible in terms of what they bring to canon. Rebels makes Thrawn into an idiot and R1 nukes the Imperial Army and turns stormtroopers into literally braindead and infuriatingly incompetent assclowns.

BUT THERE WAS AN AT-ST AND THE ROBOT MADE A QUIP AND VADER MADE A QUIP CLAP CLAP BECAUSE IT'S MARVEL WARS AND YOU RECOGNIZE IT

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@Evilember
Yes, but unlike the old days, interdictors are fully canon now, so why not have Pablo or Leland speak up during the story meetings and go "hey, how about the Resistance can't jump to hyperspace since the FO have a ship that can prevent that?"

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@whereismyname
The Starship Troopers movie has an interesting take on it

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Need_TLC
Because his upbringing, outside being taken from his parents, probably wasn't fucked up. Harsh, spartan, and strenuous perhaps, but would be more akin to an old-school military academy than being given a handful of amphetamines and being told to machete people to death.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@TechHater
Rebels makes Thrawn into an idiot
How? Thrawn constantly wins in Rebels

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

Guys, I fixed the movie.
https://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1513556943057.webm

Techpill
Techpill

@lostmypassword

It's not three ships left in the Republic, its three ships left in The Resistance. Remember, The Resistance is basically a PMC under Leia's ownership/leadership that served as a successor to the Rebellion and went around doing Hero Shit when the Republic Fleet wasn't around. Now that the Republic has all-but-folded because a large percentage of both their fleet and government fell when the Starkiller went off, The Resistance is the FO's main threat because they can rally the people into a new rebellion at a time where the FO is trying to consolidate control over key systems (Rey says they're still weeks away from doing this).

They're trying to snuff out opposition because, as we see when they send out their radio call, the nature of the FO's attack on the Republic wiped out most hope among the general populace. Only the "legend," of the Rebels and the Jedi can bring it back, which is what we see happening in the stinger.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@idontknow
This triggers the mouse.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

The Last Jedi draws more from Return of the Jedi than ESB

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Poker_Star
Shit, that song really DOES go with everything.

TechHater
TechHater

@Poker_Star
Fucking beautiful

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

So how is edge of the empire to play?

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Poker_Star
boku no jedi academia

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@TechHater
R1 nukes the Imperial Army and turns stormtroopers into literally braindead and infuriatingly incompetent assclowns

Just like every Star Wars movie that's had Storm Troopers? The movie has plenty of huge, glaring faults. Why make one up?

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Harmless_Venom
Nani?
https://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1513541365386.webm

Methnerd
Methnerd

@cum2soon
This is comedy gold

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Burnblaze
The first half is the second half of ROTJ, then there's that one Battlestar Galactica Episode everyone remembers in the middle, then the second half is ESB.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Techpill
It seems crazy to me that a republic would allow a collection of heavily armed vigilantes calling themselves 'The Resistance' to go around picking fights with ideologically opposed groups in their territory, regardless of whether they were the ones that helped install the republic in the first place.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@lostmypassword
As cool as the hyperspace collison was, if it was that effective why isn't this the primary way of combatting fleets and capital ships?

fucking this^^
Everything else just fucks up the story for this particular movie, but this actually breaks the setting.

Imagine if the death Star could have been destroyed by simply setting some cruisers to autopilot and jumping to light speed targeted at it's core.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@Stupidasole

The Republic heavily demilitarized after the Empire went down, and the First Order was considered a non-threat to the point they were barely being hunted. Also most of these clashes were happening in the Uncharted Territories and/or the very fringes of the Outer Rim.

I mean, the Resistance did NOT have a ton of resources. That one Mon Cal seemed to be their only capital ship, and they only had one base. The average Crime Boss has access to as much if not more firepower in Star Wars. They probably weren't even on the New Republic's radar despite their fame and vigilantism.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Poker_Star
@cum2soon
Where's the edit that uses GIGA DRILLU BREAKAH

Spamalot
Spamalot

@SomethingNew
I sincerely doubt that the First Order treats its child soldiers well enough to call it not fucked up. Regardless, I still don't see how he'd come out of it as such a profoundly normal dude.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@whereismyname
yup, sounds retarded

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Stupidasole

Do you know how stupid the shield technology is in Star Wars? All they have to do is bullshit some reason that it only worked because it was a Star Destroyer-sized ship, and the Death Star could have even shrugged that off because it was the size of a fucking planet. It's not like the rebel alliance had a bunch of Mon Cals to fucking spare.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@cum2soon

It seems retarded that the New Republic didn't expend more resources hunting down one of their heroes going around helping people than they do for equally armed criminals?

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Snarelure
the whole premise

eGremlin
eGremlin

@whereismyname
Yeah that seems fair enough. Is this actually written in some lore somewhere or is it just a logical conclusion and I'm a brainlet?

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@cum2soon
Fist of the North Star Wars

Booteefool
Booteefool

@eGremlin

The top part is from a NuCanon novel, the bottom part is just me drawing from the on-screen evidence and existing knowledge that it's not uncommon from private citizens and organizations to have significant military resources in this setting.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@lostmypassword
The BB-8 Walker.
Astral Projection Luke
i loved those, i thought they were super cool

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Booteefool
Yeah I meant the top bit. Cheers.

idontknow
idontknow

@eGremlin
No it's canon. In Disney EU everything that comes out cartoons, comics, games and novels are all canon with a few obvious exceptions.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@w8t4u
It's not like the rebel alliance had a bunch of Mon Cals to fucking spare.

Then slap some hyperspace drives pn sn asteroid field and save/doom the galaxy in one wild night.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@w8t4u
I'll give you Luke. I just sighed when I saw the walker though.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@whereismyname
The opening crawl of TFA says the Resistance was backed by the Republic. Also,

First Order
Has resources to build a giga Death Star
Has dozens of Star Destroyers and multiple giga Star Destroyers
Openly opposed to the New Republic
Led by a known dark sider
Non-threat

eGremlin
eGremlin

@lostmypassword

The "win immediately with a stupid and crazy plan or literally destroy all civilization in the process of failing," mindset never fails to boggle my mind.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@w8t4u
and the Death Star could have even shrugged that off because it was the size of a fucking planet
You might think planets are pretty big, but a planet isn't big enough to shrug off a space ship colliding into it at relativistic speeds.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@lostmypassword
Did you notice how the entire way space combat works in Star Wars is hilariously suboptimal? Suboptimal ship designs fire suboptimal weapons at each other at suboptimal ranges. Rule of cool is the only glue that holds it together.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@massdebater

How much work would it be to create a clone wars era campaign using the current stuff available in FFG systems? Can I reskin FaD and AoR and do a decent job?

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Evil_kitten
The OT was never as bad about it as RO.

In ANH our first scene with them is them mopping the floor with a superior-numbered and entrenched rebel force down a narrow corridor. They can't shoot the heroes for shit but we realize that was a plan by Tarkin and the troopers to make them think they were legitimately escaping in order to lead them to the rebel base.

In ESB they curbstomp the main rebel stronghold on Hoth and later do muck up with the heroes again, but it's pretty obvious that was Vader's plan. Can't convert your son if he's dead and Palpatine wanted to bring the bulk of rebel leadership into one place, Endor.

In ROTJ they do lose initially to the Ewoks in a bad writing decision that has been lampooned and mocked for decades and rightly so, yet even still they begin winning and winning pretty hard after the fact, injuring the heroes, and originally killing Han.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@Garbage Can Lid

The answer is because it was desperate and crazy, and normally circumstances are not so desperate/crazy as to require it.

Desperate and crazy is sending 20 stub-fighters against a starbase the size of a moon and trying to hit a ridiculously small target after flying down a trench filled with point defence guns. You absolutely only do that as a last resort when you have no other options available, because it's both dangerous and extremely likely to fail.

Finding a random old freighter and aiming it in the general direction of the enemy and having a non-sentient droid activate the hyperdrive is neither desperate or crazy; it's in fact completely safe and easy to do, with guaranteed results. Hell, even if you miss, you just turn around and do it again. It's not like you're risking anything here.

What would have achieved the same effect, but not blown the entire premise of the universe apart, would be if Admiral Tumblr turned the ship around and used the sub-light engines to kamikaze into Snoke's Compensation. The cruiser bursting into flames as she desperately tried to get close enough and then finally crashing into the enemy ship would save Rose and Finn from being executed (unfortunately) and have xer go out in a blaze of glory AND buy time for the transports to escape.

farquit
farquit

@ZeroReborn

They didn't build the Starkiller, it was yet another Stupid Imperial Superweapon that got left behind after they fell.

"Dozens of Star Destroyers." is literally a joke level of war power compared to the entire Galactic Republic. Thinking this is a large number is like thinking that a million clones would be enough to fight the Clone Wars.

Are you George Lucas?

Bidwell
Bidwell

@ZeroReborn
Expanded material says that the FO had spies and sympathizers in the NR that made the NR incompotent and filled with red tape and bureaucracy. Not to mention the Emperor set up a bunch of facilities and factories in the Unknown regions in order to prepare for an invasion after the rebellion has been dealt with

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@farquit
starkiller was an imperial weapon

Are you fucking serious?

How fucking awful does nucanon have to be?

Snarelure
Snarelure

@PurpleCharger

Which is why I was specifically talking about shield strength. Planetary-scale shields in Star Wars can deflect extinction-level asteroids numbering in the hundreds.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@CodeBuns
Yeah definitely agree, but you can't argue that colliding a freighter at faster than the speed of light into a dreadnaught and taking out a fleet isn't optimal.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@Garbage Can Lid
their leader was a Sith Lord apprenticed to the Sith Lord controlling the Republic,

Yes and we all know there's no-one more loyal than a Sith apprentice.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@farquit
The entire Galactic republic than decomisioned 90% of his fleet, and than lost the rest in a lol worthy atack done be the starkiller? Nu Canon is a joke in all the meanings of the word.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@Gigastrength

As awful as 20 years of Star Wars stories running on that premise, including ROTJ?

FastChef
FastChef

@farquit
it was yet another Stupid Imperial Superweapon that got left behind after they fell.
What the fuck, when did they say that?

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@farquit
They didn't build the Starkiller,

Hux literally says
this great weapon, that you have built
when giving his Hitler speech

Supergrass
Supergrass

@massdebater
Without insulting each other, what are your thoughts on The Last Jedi?

Would have been a whole lot better and made more sense if Rey had fallen to the Dark Side and Kylo went Light Side.

But of course that would involve Disney's female darling being evil and we couldn't possibly have that.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@Gigastrength
@farquit
That isn't true. There's been nothing saying it was an Imperial weapon. It was created by the First Order, not the Empire.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@Stupidasole
See, but don't the Storm Troopers end up wrecking the rebels on the ground in Scarif after the initial sneak attack? You're giving extra credit to their victories in the OT while underplaying their victory in R1.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@farquit
That's completely incorrect, it was the work of the FO.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@RumChicken
given that the empire was created by abuse of a giant army created to fight the evil CIS, it makes sense to rapidly demobilize your giant republic fleet as soon as the war is won to prevent someone from creating the empire 2.0 using that giant fleet

they were stupid in allowing the FO to grow to empire size on the outer rim, but this isnt the weirdest thing to go unnoticed in star wars

Firespawn
Firespawn

Why is it so fucking hard to put point defense on capital ships?

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@eGremlin
The "win immediately with a stupid and crazy plan or literally destroy all civilization in the process of failing," mindset never fails to boggle my mind.

The civilization in question in the Empire, I sure hope.

It wouldn't end galactic life, just Imperial infrastructure.

TechHater
TechHater

@w8t4u

Yes, if only Snookle's 50km long ship had had some kind of shield technology, it would have been saved.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@TechHater

Im sure we'll get some justification like 'its shields have to be down for those inexplicably-arcing mega cannons to fire'

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Firespawn
it supposed to be similar to WW2 era AA
can deter attacks if focused and ready to shoot down prioritized targets, but if attacked by a concentrated and determined attack force, they wont be able to do more than stall for time

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Snarelure
So why not go beneath it's shields like the xwings did and then jump?

Even a fighter sized ship would crack that thing open at those speeds.

Inmate
Inmate

@Firespawn
In theory they carry a hugh amount of space fighters for that role.
Why they didn't use them is another reason.

Playboyize
Playboyize

@Dreamworx

Hmm, if only there had been an entire sub-plot involving the two worst characters in the movie and a casino full of people who are evil because they're rich about trying to find someone who can hack through the ship's shields.

Of course, I look forward to an expanded universe comic where it's revealed that whatever his name was actually had a change of heart and disabled the ship's shields as he was leaving to leave the ship open to attack oh and he also disabled the shields on all the star destroyers nearby just because he's that good.

Methnerd
Methnerd

So, I've been kicking around ideas for a FaD game with Knight level players, where the players are sent undercover into a prison to try and root out a Sith/Dark Jedi who's using it to build an army/kill off potential Jedi in the nearby area.

What I'm stuck on though, is how well does this idea work with the Morality and general quest ideas to build towards reaching the bad guy. Any suggestions?

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@Firespawn
If you watch Rogue One, a ton rebel fighters are taken out by turbolasers on Scarif Station. Why Star Destroyers and Death Stars have so much trouble can only be explained by dramatic license.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@massdebater
The only part of the movie I genuinely found myself in the theatre actually thinking that I don't like this is the first half an hour after the whole Bombing scene which was pretty cool, though still a bit shitty to see how easily Super Star Destroyers are to kill nowadays. But in that first half hour or so the pacing was really off and everything seemed to move way too fast. After that though I really thought it was incredible. It has problems for sure but I really enjoyed it.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Methnerd
Seconding this and any other tips on running knight level games. Looking to run a one-shot as a prequel to the campaign I'm organising.

Inmate
Inmate

@Bidwell
Don't tractor beams prevent a ship from entering Hyperspace? So I would think anything small enough to be caught in a tractor beam isn't really a viable choice, and the cost factor of using a flagship is untenable.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@StrangeWizard
though still a bit shitty to see how easily Super Star Destroyers are to kill nowadays
well, the B/SF-17 carries dozens of bombs, whereas a Y-wing would only carry a single pair, and was dropping it directly on its hull rather than its shield
so its more of a case of "this ship was purpose built to destroy big ships" then a case of "Big ship is weak"
you would think that after the empire spammed star destroyers like how a CnC player spams tanks, people would choose to make a hard counter to shut this tactic down

Soft_member
Soft_member

@girlDog
Ackbar's voice actor is fucking ripped in potatoes, what else do you expect

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@cum2soon
Thrawn over Coruscant, maybe?

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@massdebater
Without insulting each other, what are your thoughts on The Last Jedi?

Really liked half of it, hated the first half.
Fucking quality review right there!

My life is shit though as I'm surrounded by in laws for the next month, the time of the nailed gods birth is upon us for the giving of presents, my dog thinks its a cat, the firstborn doesn't sleep so therefore I don't sleep, we're in the annual TV migration period to /swg/ making it suck and even if I run away to town to go watch a movie I half hate. Its a good time.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Gigastrength
@New_Cliche
Poe did nothing wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV_rfbnEzjk&t=600s

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@Poker_Star
You'd think they'd made bombers able to move more than 1 mile per hour in space.
And would make them more durable than the wet toilet paper they were.
And make them able to deliver their bombs other than an idiotic gravity drop. In zero gravity.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@Firespawn
Protip: Its not, across both the old and nu canon, there are fireships dedicated to this role but let's do a sort of study on one of the most popular ships that sucks at point defense. The Imperial-1 Class Star Destroyer.

Its got a simple design that is often thought to help it focus fire. However in RotJ we often see that fighters approach from an angle that keeps the ships from bringing their heavy lasers to bear against them. This is relatively easy to do as a fighter in space can come at it from an angle of choosing as opposed to a capitol ship which is both easier to detect and harder to move.

What is hard to do, is put effective AA coverage with this vessel. Its often thought of to be a mere wedge but if you take into account that the bottom and top of an isd also have bevels and sideways sloping sections you would see that the surface area that your point-defense weapons would have to cover in order to be a full screen in and of themselves would be HUGE.

Furthermore, as a ship of that size its goal for the empire was to act as a psuedo fighter base, foothold for planetary invasion and ship of the line. It not only has been mission creeped to all hell but also has many other mission uses for the resources and manpower that would be spent defending against fighters. Even considering that it carries a full damn Wing of fighter craft specifically to perform AA duties.

/autismo rant

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Playboyize
I'm pretty sure an explanation that elaborate wouldn't happen in this climate, it'll more than likely be something to do with how hyperdrives accelerate something to ridiculous speed on their way to hyperspace and as such the shields wouldn't have been able to dissipate that much sheer kinetic energy.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@Firespawn
Its the FO's fault for still having problems that already have solutions.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@TurtleCat
That wouldn't be worth it either.

EU-wise at least I'd rather an Imperial victory.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@idontknow
Snoke says that killing his father was so taxing on his spirit that it effectively broke him.

Think of it like being such emotionally straining it debuffed him, like "burns all Kylo's stress points" in FFG terms, so he can't use a lot of his abilities, whereas Rey still had a lot of hers to buff her (extremely limited) lightsaber abilities.

@Poker_Star
I'm not convinced Rey's parents were nobodies. remember the mind link- it's entirely plausible that Kylo could only see into her mind, and what she feared. Rey saw Kylo as wanting to see Snoke, but being scared, and Kylo saw Rey wanting to learn about her parents, but being scared of being "no one", which is EXACTLY what she saw in the Obligatory Dark Side Force Cave.

@TalkBomber
if TFA was any indication, about 1 week after release, or the release of a new book/game/comic/tabletop game supplement.

@Illusionz
He wants Carrie Fisher to sing again while Harrison Ford maintains a big goofy smirk for 30 solid minutes, to the point you can hear his face muscles shriek in pain.

@Soft_member
Thrawn set up a bunch of asteroids with cloaking devices on them and dropped them into Coruscant airspace to fuck with trade. Brought the planet to a halt because the Republic now had to go out of the way to effectively De-mine their orbit.

@Inmate
Comeuppance I bet will come in IX, or they'll kidnap him or something. Just imo

@Skullbone
Technically they are the Resisty, so they may not have as formal a rank structure, being a paramilitary force and all that. Osama and Che Gueverra never really wore a standard uniform, even if they had a particular "look" that was uniform-esque.

@Emberfire
Battlefront 3 license between Kojima and EA
10 missions, with 20 minute unskippable cut scenes between each mission, and unskippable 15 minute scenes within each, discussing the merits of arms trade, child soldier storm troopers, cybernetic enhancements, hyperspace rams, nazi gold, and nanomachines

Eh I'll buy it.

TechHater
TechHater

@lostmypassword
Lancer-class frigate

My competent amounts of melanin comrade.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@ZeroReborn
So what superweapon will the First Order have in Episode IX? The Galaxy Gun but with the new effect that hyperspace projectiles will destroy any target with the speed of the projectile instead of the projectile being huge?

Also, why didn't the transport going into hyperspace that rammed into Devastator in Rogue One destroy the Devastator?

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@Fried_Sushi

They're not gravity drop, they're impelled.
Official artbook says so.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@Fried_Sushi
as the name B/sf-17 implies, they are supposed to be big and slow, and moving slightly slower wont sell the impression well to the audience, so they deliberately move at a snails pace so that it tells us "these ships are slow"

yes they look not very tough, but then again, the "super tough and durable" Y-wing is often destroyed in one hit, and the X-wing is often destroyed just as quickly as the fragile TIE
Star wars has a bad problem with super tough ships dying in one hit in general
as for free fall dropping, its meant to look like a B-17 dropping its payload over germany

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Nude_Bikergirl
So what superweapon will the First Order have in Episode IX?
Starkiller Base mk.2, uses black holes instead of stars as fuel

Emberfire
Emberfire

How is Star Wars: Destiny? I see it all the time at my LGS and it looks interesting since it uses dice I guess? I've been looking for a new card game to play

Flameblow
Flameblow

@kizzmybutt
unlikely, if it uses black holes they can't use the light=hope metaphor

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Spamalot
as for free fall dropping, its meant to look like a B-17 dropping its payload over germany
Yes, we know. It's WWII in space.
They CAN be less obnoxiously obvious about it.
But they don't even try.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Flameblow
What if light escapes the black hole in the finale ?

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Flameblow

Ah but they can use the 'darkness is all consuming' to bring Kylo back from the dark side.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@TalkBomber
its been this way since episode 4, why stop now if its so cool?
the X-wings targeting computer is pretty much just a WW2 gyroscopic sight, complete with adjusting for the enemys range every 10 seconds

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

Aftermath of Episode IX
[The First Order] were also left with a heavily diminished starfleet, Vice Admiral Holdo's sacrifice having destroyed their flagship and many escort cruisers.
Literally genocided millions of children and teenagers
Our heroes.

The tale of Luke's stand against the First Order quickly spread across the galaxy, inspiring many to support the Resistance and stand against the First Order.
By who? The 15 or so "Resistance" fighters who escaped the battle? Because we know from how they're portrayed that the First Order forces are essentially battle droids with no existence beyond fighting to conquer the galaxy.

Before his death, Luke also acknowledged Rey's position as the last Jedi, giving birth to new hope for both the Order and the galaxy.
So Luke's whole existence can be summed up as a failure. All he managed to do was cause the Jedi Order to adopt the Rule of Two.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@massdebater
It was okay. Not my fav or the worst.

kinda wish that Luke died in battle with dignity instead of alone on an island but I mean, I guess it fits his character.

What is pacing?

Also, best scene in the whole thing was when Laura's character Admiral Akbar'd the super super snoke destroyer via hyperspace travel I have never heard a theater so quiet for so long.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Spazyfool
how is pushing yourself to the limit one last time to save your friends and then peacefully merging with the universe not dying with dignity?

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Emberfire
Holdo should have lived, Leia should have allahu ackbarred with admiral Ackbar becuz pun.

@TurtleCat
I can justify the "faster" by "we can temporarily use bursts of speed to stay ahead of the FO, but it would burn too much fuel to get too far ahead. Just my head canon.

@PackManBrainlure
It may be that the "Base killer" ship is explicitly supposed to be escorted by others, and the escorts completely fucking failed at their job, as mentioned by the frustrated captain of who said "we should have launched TIEs 5 minutes ago".

@girlDog
Ackbar's voice actor is dead
An admiral on a desperate mission dies when a logical attack on the bridge succeeds
Color me shocked, an admiral in space who dies in space when severely outgunned and attacked by a major PC with character shield. For the future, whenever two characters go toe-to-toe, ask yourself "who has the better plot armor" and that'll usually tell you who is going to die.

@lostmypassword
I liked astral projection luke. Very Jedi Master.
Fuck porgs though.

tracking bullshit
This confuses me. It seems that in SW you can track something entering and exiting hyperspace, but maybe not THROUGH hyperspace? This was mentioned in the OT a few times, and R1 mentions detecting the Death Star emerging from hyperspace (though maybe that was just becuase it's fuck-huge).

3 ships left in the Republic
They are the resistance, not the Republic. These are effectively a terrorist cell. As far as we know though, they may have MORE ships, just ones that are unfueled and thus useless.

I agree, Kylo Ren was the star here in terms of development.

@Stupidasole
The Republic doesn't seem to be in a position to stop them, and as far as the Republic and Rump empire is concerned, the First Order isn't any more of a threat than say, Al Qaeda. Enough to stage one big attack on a rare occasion, but realistically isn't ever going to be an existential national threat (though FO winds up being just that). It's an Intel fail from start to finish.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Spazyfool
Also, best scene in the whole thing was when Laura's character Admiral Akbar'd the super super snoke destroyer via hyperspace travel I have never heard a theater so quiet for so long.

Why didn't the Rebels just do that with a Mon Cal to blow up the Death Star?

Techpill
Techpill

@massdebater
This thread is full of people who misss the point of star wars.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Techpill
That's because The Last Jedi is a Star Wars movie made by people who hate Star Wars

JunkTop
JunkTop

@massdebater
I really enjoyed Luke, and I feel like they addressed Rey's problems well. Kylo is great, and I'm extremely excited to see him more in the next movie. BB-8 might have actually been too badass, and while I like Finn's arc from someone that worries more about his immediate friends to someone that worries about the broader galaxy I think it was badly done. Rose doesn't get me excited but fuck it, she's not awful by any stretch. Holdo and Poe feel like they got a whole bunch of their discussion and conflict cut for time. Next movie is gonna have to do some weird fucking shit to make how they ended this one work.

I will say, I didn't expect a fucking metal gear character to show up in Star Wars. Fucking talking about the war economy had me wondering if Luke and Kylo were gonna spar on the new AT-ATs. Hope we get more of DJ.

Also yeah, hyperspace kamikaze looked fucking amazing but it brings up so many fucking questions about why warfare isn't done more in that manner that I'm sure we'll get an answer to but its not gonna be very exciting to hear. (fully expect to be told its because you need a ship above a certain mass, and it only worked because the mega destroyer was so fucking big, and yadda yadda yadda bad excuses.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Techpill
Moy-chandaising?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgRFQJCHcPw

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@Techpill
Merchandising

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Techpill
Space adventure films with a poorly-read Buddhist moral message.

massdebater
massdebater

@Stupidasole

About the Ewok thing, those dudes were hunters and that was their home turf. You also forget they managed to capture a smuggler, a wookiee veteran and a Jedi padawan all at the same time and planned to cannibalize them.

likme
likme

@ZeroReborn
He still has enough indoctrination to show no guilt whatsoever killing former allies who he’s aware have been raised just like him. Does he even think anything about this random stormtrooper who called him a traitor? About his dead friend at the start of TFA or anyone else?

SniperGod
SniperGod

@w8t4u
@lostmypassword

astral projection Luke

"tch, nothin' personal........... kid...."

FastChef
FastChef

@JunkTop
I didn't expect a fucking metal gear character to show up in Star Wars
Star Wars and Metal Gear have a lot of overlap already.
Daddy issues
Superweapons
Dorky, morally conflicted superweapon scientists
Cyborg ninjas
Heaps of melodrama
Memorable music
Beards
Clones
Quirky boss battles
David Hayter
Paul Eiding
Cute robots
Tragic supervillains
Government conspiracies
Metal Gear characters would be right at home in the galaxy far, far away.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@VisualMaster
As opposed to C-3PO's head being on a battle droid? Or opposed to all the times droids are told to "ready the ship"? Why couldn't droids pilot stuff?

@Poker_Star
Dozens of bombs
Nah, that looked like hundreds, easily. I think Incredible Cross Sections may have said something like 1,000.

@Fried_Sushi
Eh, i don't think it's an issue of being made of toilet paper so much as "tanking a turbolaser round". I doubt that a TIE would have found them as easy to kill, seeing as they are literally B-17s in spess.

@lostmypassword
I put one of these in my AoR game, warned the players in game that they were fighter killers, and they chose to attack thinking it was just another Dreadnought or something. They got party wiped in 3 rounds.

@TalkBomber
The millenium falcon's cannons are literally WW1 pom-pom guns, and the heavy storm troopers are rocking like MG42s and nazi helmets with a mask, and the rebels at hoth are using STG-44s and shit. I'm not sure what you could expect at this point.

@Spazyfool
My theater cheered and stuff. A lot. Those people loved it. Laughed at every porg, every joke, the yo mama joke, everything.

@Soft_member
This. Kylo hinted that it would kill Rey if she had the mind-link thing on her own the first time it happened, that was the foreshadow. Astral projection across the galaxy (not to mention dueling, if that costs extra) is a pretty big deal, especially for an old guy who may have flat-out cut himself off from the force for years.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@Techpill
Space opera based on everything Lucas loved?

MPmaster
MPmaster

I wanna try SW d6 REUP since it's free and looks simple. What should I look out for?

Inmate
Inmate

@FastChef
Its one thing to have the broad strokes be similar, its another to have a hackerman show up, babble about the war economy and how the good guys and bad guys are the same, steal and wear a uniform to infiltrate an Imperial installation, then wink as he wanders offscreen with his money and promise to show up in the next movie. I hope he has a ridiculous mech in the next movie or some shit.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Evil_kitten
They are the resistance, not the Republic. These are effectively a terrorist cell. As far as we know though, they may have MORE ships, just ones that are unfueled and thus useless.
Nah, it's made very explicit in the Visual Dictionary and the canon reference material that essentially the entire Resistance was on D'qar. Their evacuation took their entire battlefleet to do.

They are literally just the people on the Falcon at the end of the movie. That's The Resistance.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Supergrass
Why couldn't droids pilot stuff?
They can, I just thought that bit was lame.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@massdebater

SWLCG= dead
SWCCG=dead
SW ARMADA=dead
SWXWING= dying

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Nojokur
hasnt played legion

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@Fuzzy_Logic
if it was a parody I would have believed it.

Honestly, I couldn't agree with you more. The scene that really sealed the deal was when Luke decided to drink from the teet of a weird lumpy wale thing.

Captain phasma was a real shame, I wanted to take her out of the trash and love her, but back into the trash she goes I guess. Poor Brienne of Tarth.

TechHater
TechHater

Is there a good way to play FFG online?

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@TechHater

Roll 20 if you've jewed out for it.
Failing that, Tabletop Sim works really well

girlDog
girlDog

@Raving_Cute

I have jewed out for roll20, but how do you do the dice rolls on it. Do you just convert numbers?

w8t4u
w8t4u

@lostmypassword
Rey, did I ever tell you about breasts? Breasts were the mammary glands of mammalian species and some reptomammals, and were normally a distinguishing feature of the female of the species. Males did have breasts, but they were far less developed than their female counterparts due to the sexual dimorphism.

It was a good taste.

Methshot
Methshot

@Spamalot
I wonder if Saw trying to orchestrate space 9/11 is going to be a plot at some point.
JUST LIKE THE GOOD OL' DAYS AFTER ORDER 66!

Snarelure
Snarelure

@kizzmybutt
Well shit, they barely have enough people for a typical high school english class.

@lostmypassword
I dont know why the hell they keep bringing back Phasma given that she's a notable actress unless they plan on her getting the Greivous treatment for IX and being an absolute kickass murder machine with a hate-boner for Finn larger than an ISD.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Methshot
DON'T FUCK WITH THIS SENATOR

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Lord_Tryzalot
Probably because the prototypes were flawed to the point where they simply would not be worth the time nor money to invest in, if I had to guess. Not to mention the level of clearance required to need to know

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Lord_Tryzalot
An easy excuse would be that the First Order badly mismanaged its naval budget and spent all of its money on Tarkin Doctrine dickwaving, setting aside insufficient funds to pay for practical shit like expensive Interdictor tech.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@Harmless_Venom
Wasn't that either, logically, they just lost all their starfighter forces anyway, so his previous rank had no purpose beyond his new one. Nothing actually changed.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@girlDog

Nah there's a script you can run to actually do the ffg rolls.

WebTool
WebTool

@5mileys
Considering the movies define the lore, the only correct answer is yes.

Although to be fair TFA gave us hyperspeed through shields so it's not like this comes as a real surprise.

(My character in FFG actually blew up a Star Destroyer by going to hyperspace inside it. Thanks, Disney!)

Illusionz
Illusionz

to me, Yoda’s line about the books wasn’t really about Mary Sue-ism. It was about “I’ve had plenty of time to reflect, and The Jedi Order was ultimately arrogant and we were the creators of our own downfall. Those books are dull, and full of our mistakes. But we can guide her to other information, other Force attuned locations, teach her the ways of the Force. From there, our mistakes will be her true lessons. And the Jedi will be born anew, and more balanced.”

Added to my assumption from TFA, her already blooming abilities come from her accidental viewing/experiencing of Kylo’s memories, allowing her to get a crash course of some of his training

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

WHEN IS IT COMING OUT

I WANT MY U-WINGS

farquit
farquit

@Supergrass
My theater cheered and stuff. A lot. Those people loved it. Laughed at every porg, every joke, the yo mama joke, everything.
Mine cheered when snoke got smoked and when Kylo did the quick-kill on/off. A few people also clapped when finn beat up phasma, but it didn't catch and they stopped quickly.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Illusionz
I agree that it was a reflection thing, but not so much about "other" opportunities. I feel like it was more that, Luke had surpassed Yoda in wisdom greater than us line, and both of them would show Rey the way to even greater heights. The traditions aren't important, its what they learned from them that were.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Nude_Bikergirl
is this a AoR supplement? or is it a full core rule book?

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

so what if the only reason the kamikaze worked was because it hit the same spot DJ hacked in and turned the shields off at? Dude never says he likes the first order, just takes a deal when he's offered one.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Illusionz
I’ve had plenty of time to reflect, and The Jedi Order was ultimately arrogant and we were the creators of our own downfall
Didn’t they have that already at the end of EP3?

DeathDog
DeathDog

@SniperWish
It's a suplement for the whole system, focussed on content from Rebels and Rogue one

It's supposed to be agnostic, but it will probably be of the most interest to the AoR people

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@lostmypassword
Benicio Del Toro was awful. Just awful. I feel like they let him ad lib too much and the result is a garbage character with garbage motivations that should stay in the garbage and definitely not appear again in Episode IX. DO YOU FUCKING HEAR ME JJ?

I actually really liked Rose as a character, but the entire Finn/Rose/DJ plot arc was utterly disposable trash.

Luke was cool as fuck, although the motivation for both Luke and Kylo could have been much stronger if Luke had simply murdered Ben's friend for going over to the Dark Side.

Star Wars physics all fucked up again.

BB-8 walker wasn't really offensive.

Not even mad about Leia using the Force.

Hyperspace collision does seem like something that would be a more common tactic if it's that effective.

Holdo was a dumb character and Laura Dern is not a national treasure.

Salt planet was amazing filmmaking from a visualization perspective. The shots were excellent for drawing your eye away from the flaws and onto the action.

On the whole this film could have done with more shirtless Adam Driver especially because Kylo seems uncomfortable about it.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@Illusionz
I like to think about it as an honest answer about how fucking dull a lot of academic texts can be, even about topics you are interested in. Ever go to school for something you found really interesting, only to have to read so much on the topic that it sucks the passion out of it? Imagine that x900 years.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@Burnblaze
Last half of ESB (outside help, casino planet, scoundrel "helps" and betrays) and select scenes from RotJ.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@VisualMaster
About the order itself? Yes. About their understanding of the Force? Probably not.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@AwesomeTucker
On the whole this film could have done with more shirtless Adam Driver especially because Kylo seems uncomfortable about it.
I found it funny that he was clearly irritated by the timing. Made me wonder if they linked at all when either was in the bathroom or bathing.

farquit
farquit

@DeathDog
ah, it seems like a good mix of F&D (high-jedi fantasy) and AoR (low/nonexistant jedi fantasy).

@AwesomeTucker
Kylo is uncomfortable about it
I think you mean Rey. Adam Driver was a Marine iirc, the dude was jacked from the start and I bet there are plenty of people who have seen him shit in a bucket/walk naked around the shower in the Middle East.

5mileys
5mileys

@Ignoramus
Art and coding. Though art history is fun. It’s art theory that reads like Ben Stein.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@lostmypassword
yeah but the Lancer is a Marysue ship designed specifically to kill Wedge Antilles and Luke Skywalker.

Why would the FO have/use them? The only threat is Poe Dameron.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@farquit

You seem to be confusing the actor for the character

Emberfire
Emberfire

@lostmypassword
I misread that, my bad. maybe i wasn't paying attention so much to his reaction as I was Rey's much more obvious reaction, since Kylo just stares at her while she talks about him getting dressed for their skype call

Firespawn
Firespawn

@Booteefool
If their misunderstanding of the Force was wrong, what does it say about all their teachings in the original trilogy?

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Harmless_Venom
Made me wonder if they linked at all when either was in the bathroom or bathing.
This is why he feels so betrayed when Snoke reveals he was the one connecting them.

"I WAS POOPING!" battle cry was cut in editing, though.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

convince me to see TLJ please

Spamalot
Spamalot

@Boy_vs_Girl
Lando cameo

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Bidwell
How is a dedicated AA platform even remotely mary sue? That doesn't even make sense. You're just throwing out words. That's like saying the Arleigh Burke-class destroyer is a mary sue ship because it can load up a fuckton of SAMs.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Boy_vs_Girl
Did you ever like the action/adventure genre?

massdebater
massdebater

@Stupidasole
snoke connected them
Considering that they connect after he is gone, that may not be the case

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Spamalot
Dick move.

@Boy_vs_Girl
There is one absolutely badass lightsaber scene and a gorgeous scene of rebels defending against a FO ground assault. Lando's cameo in the casino is pretty sweet tho.

Methshot
Methshot

@Spamalot
Why you have to lie?
It honestly annoys the fuck out of me that he wasn't the hacker they that CGI Goggles knew. They could have played it 100% the same, with them not getting to recruit him, if they were worried about action scenes, but apparently he was never even approached.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@massdebater
None of the characters are reliable narrators.

Hell, it's even implied Rey is lying about what happened in the Dark Side Nexus. Or not revealing the whole truth.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Spamalot
My favourite part was when he asked Rose if she wanted to wrap her lips around a tall frothy one

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@kizzmybutt
Lando's cameo in the casino is pretty sweet tho.
Are there any screencaps of this?

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@ZeroReborn
I was being a dick user.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Firespawn
That it was flawed, and needs honing. That in their arrogance the order and it’s teachings they allowed themselves to dull and chip away at the individual principle of keeping a questioning mind that is always seeking out truth

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@Emberfire
It would imply that many parts of their scenes at Dagobah and more were inaccurate. Those were some of the best scenes.

5mileys
5mileys

@BunnyJinx
The truths of the past being partial does not take away from the underlying principles

Emberfire
Emberfire

@5mileys
Hera did something similar in the latest season of rebels with hyperspaces
I also recall mostly from reading saga d20 edition books that it wasn't that it was impossible tp jump into or out of hyperspace wells, just incredibly dangerous, because things could happen like happened in tlj. I thought it was pretty fucking sick and the shot with the black and white and the silence was fucking dope

TreeEater
TreeEater

@BunnyJinx
The OT never pretended Yoda was all-knowing or 100% right about everything.

The Jedi and Sith are monastic orders with monastic teachings. Yoda wasn't reading the script and telling Luke what's what, he was teaching him the principles of his monastic order.

Whether he was right or wrong depends on how you view the Jedi, Sith, and the Force itself, because Yoda was never made out to be objectively correct.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@BunnyJinx
@TreeEater
I mean, wasn't there a big whole thing in 6 about how Yoda said the only option was to kill Vader? And then lo and behold there's another option?

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

got some creative questions, one of the factions in my game is using a clone army but not only one template, any specific specialties to pick in different kinds of clone templates for a semi-pragmatic army? open to suggestions

askme
askme

@Booteefool
important distinction, Yoda says confront Vader. Obi-Wan says kill Vader. If I'm remembering right.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Boy_vs_Girl
Well, who is making the clones and how are they being funded?

takes2long
takes2long

@askme
You do remember right. Yoda said that Luke’s final test is to confront Vader. Obi wan was the one who thought the Emperor already won when he said he cannot kill Vader.

Methnerd
Methnerd

Is TLJ the Clones of NuWars?

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@TreeEater
Yoda’s teachings about how the Force works were thought to be very close. Just about everything he described, the Force being everywhere, about how the only difference between a rock and an X-Wing is in the mind & everyone agrees that hate & anger leads to the dark side. It’s closer to Yoda being a magical math or physics teacher.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@SomethingNew
its based on the battlefront II concept of the anti-trooper army made on Kamino to fight the empire, difference is they never got off the ground before the destruction of Deathstar two and now there's bigger fish to fry, so the idea is that they widened their scope a bit.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Boy_vs_Girl
For starters, your clone masters will want to acquire the DNA of the most autistic stealth expert they can find.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Garbage Can Lid
autistic stealth expert

I'm sure there's a /k/ommando somewhere who qualifies. But the clone will only talk about nuggets and fucking deer on leave, so there's that.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@Garbage Can Lid
at which point we get rivalries between different lines of clones "BROOOTHER!"

though I'd imagine also wanting to clone some wookies for brute force or some Termites for pure undoctored dilligence

SniperWish
SniperWish

@BlogWobbles
Sure, if that's how you see it. Others had greatly different views.

Kreia is an obvious example, and Sith counterparts like Palpatine and Plagueis also held different views on the Force. Palpatine believed there was no true "side" to the Force and that it manifested based on your emotions, which you could harness for any intent without it being objectively negative to yourself, including perceived dangerous emotions of the Dark side and perceived stagnating restraint of the Light side. This isn't something he really "teaches" in the film, it's more of an EU thing, but still yet.

Yoda could've been completely wrong for all we know. At the end of the day, even powerful Force users like him aren't guaranteed to be correct on it. Even Palpatine, widely considered the strongest Dark (if not strongest in general) sider of all time, was likely not correct on his interpretation of the Force, and he was as close if not closer to it than Yoda.

The Force is so much bigger than every mortal being that tries to harness it, and to me, that's what makes it a mystery. You can seem all-powerful, but even you are so overwhelmingly insignificant to the Force as a whole, and you can't comprehend its true nature or true existence.

And it might be best that way.

I like to think some Lovecraftian brainmelt shit would happen if you actually understood the Force in its entirety.[/spoiler[

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@Methnerd
high critical score
poor initial audience reaction
if anything, its more like the ESB

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Burnblaze
You'll also want at least one martial artist clone on the list.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@LuckyDusty
people forget that ESB was very divisive until the emotional payoff of RotJ turned some soap-opera shit into a legitimately engaging character arc about love and redemption.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@SniperWish
The issue is, we’ve seen it work in practice. Yoda’s teachings actually worked and nobody on either side denies the existence of the dark side. There wasn’t even a light side originally.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@Evil_kitten
got the perfect line to use such a man for
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Clone_assassin

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Sharpcharm
We know Yoda lifts an x-wing, and that's it. We're not shown proof of anything he philosophically teaches. That's up to you to think on.

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Evil_kitten
@Garbage Can Lid
@Burnblaze
Any uses for female talent in the clone forces? I mean I've heard the memes about girls being better snipers or pilots but that's all I know of

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Sharpcharm
Yoda’s teachings actually worked
So did the teachings of every force organization/religion. None of them are/were all encompassing or had the whole picture, but pretty much all of them were functional.
Yoda realizing, post death, that tradition isn't whats important, and that wisdom is better gained from experience and experienced teachers is a slight growth from his pre-death "he is too old" traditional thinking.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@eGremlin
Any uses for female clones
You know the answer is obvious, user. Other than that, it's probably too much logistical and financial hassle if your clone masters are operating on a budget.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@eGremlin
Best snipers and pilots are all men, although whether that's because of history or biology isn't as cut and dry. That being said, clones don't grow up with the urges to protect women, so there isn't the inherent negative to it either.
Female clone spies should 100% be a thing, and mixed special forces groups, especially those who go under cover long term, make sense.
Just make sure to weed out the biological instincts to protect/nurture/breed.

w8t4u
w8t4u

So, how do your reward your medic/doctor players? There is not a ton of medical gear you can give them.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@SniperGod
Fast Bruce Lee assassins
Is there anything that could stop a Cloneshiro army?

eGremlin
eGremlin

@SniperGod
Destroying the clone facility and then waiting.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@haveahappyday
clones would be made sterile for sure, any protective urges are purely person to person, so ladies would be like the Black Widow's and such as well as secret insert groups.

@eGremlin
I feel like nonhuman clones do have a lot of potential but run the risk of complicating things

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@w8t4u
Sexy nurses, favors from the injured, better treatment during relatively civilized engagements if captured, connections in higher places from education and patients, droid or non-drioid assistants, an apprentice, a miniaturized lightsaber scalpel, all kinds of drugs.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@LuckyDusty
I thought critics hated ESB
I wasn't born then so I don't know

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@VisualMaster
It’s him putting his teachings to practice. He demonstrated that an xwing could be lifted just as easy

RavySnake
RavySnake

After a riveting bout of X-Wing, I have found:
Ello Asty + Flight Assist Astro + Outmaneuver = Rape

WebTool
WebTool

@Fuzzy_Logic
a miniaturized lightsaber scalpel
Well, mine does want to start doing melee. so a vibroscalpel could be a cute reward

But I do like these social perks, I'll keep them in mind.

Thanks user

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@massdebater
Just saw it again today and I actually like it more. I got over the Luke being a crazy hermit and not getting an action scene even if I am a little disappointed. I still won't excuse that retarded ass capital ship chase scene. I counted 5 SDs in addition to the Supremacy. Between them they had to have 100s of TIEs if not more. They could have easily swarmed 3 small cruisers and blew them to kingdom come. It's a huge plot hole that can't be filled.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@Fried_Sushi
It can be patched over, it just requires a lot of liquor.

Inmate
Inmate

So, what do you guys think about modding the shit out of a speeder bike, like a Joben T-85 with a lot of HP, give it legs, shields, and guns, and just calling it a basilisk droid?

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@SniperWish
I like to think some Lovecraftian brainmelt shit would happen if you actually understood the Force in its entirety.
How can you when the creators of the material have such varied ideas?

this retard fuckin red tails shit

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Harmless_Venom

MULTI-ENGINE DRIFTING

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Harmless_Venom
That was cool dickhead

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Harmless_Venom
Did he just fucking space drift?

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@massdebater
Snoke connected them and never stated nor implied that he undid it before his death. They may or may not still remain connected in the next film, but either way it was a good(and suitably mystical) way to have your important characters interacting together.

JunkTop
JunkTop

@Harmless_Venom
@Emberburn
@TurtleCat
DEJA VU

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@SniperWish
Rule of cool needs to have limits to support internal consistency.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@Methnerd
Self-bump

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@Fuzzy_Logic
Oh fuck off SWs has had sound in space since the 70s. It has always ran off of rule of cool.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Fuzzy_Logic

The only set rule is that it's gotta be cool

iluvmen
iluvmen

@JunkTop
I'VE JUST BEEN IN THIS PLACE BEFORE

Spamalot
Spamalot

@Lord_Tryzalot
@Bidwell
The only thing dumber than that was this. Why has every big ship ever not been killed this way?

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Harmless_Venom
is this an on screen segnor's loop?

Snarelure
Snarelure

@Spamalot
I literally laughed out loud when I saw this in the theatre

FastChef
FastChef

@Spamalot
Eh, starfighter drifting I can maybe excuse on account of modern jets being able to pull that stuff off. If a Raptor or Flanker can do it in atmo, why not a starfighter in space?

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Soft_member
Tallon Roll.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Crazy_Nice
damnit I got my moves scrambled.

that's the one I meant

Techpill
Techpill

@FastChef
because the starfighter has no atmosphere to slow it down, no lift or drag or anything that makes a jet fighter work

but star wars throws any kind of actual physics out the window already so it's a moot point

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@Soft_member
two talon rolls, one before and one after the enemy movement

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Techpill
@FastChef
Also x-wing engines don't have engine nozzles for thrust vectoring, but whatever, man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRgcC9eqEJg

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@StonedTime
Legends X-wings had "etheric rudders" in their engines that allowed for thrust vectoring, so there's at least precedent for that in old lore. Handwave the rest with retrothrusters (the frontal vents on X-wing engines are sometimes described as such) and you could maybe half-assedly justify it with some technobabble bullshit.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

What would a copy of the old WotC SW rolepaying game signed by young Anakin, Chewie, and the designers be worth to somoene interested?

Skullbone
Skullbone

@5mileys
@Emberburn
@Gigastrength

I figured she overrode the safety system stopping her, or set it to exit hyperspace just as she was exiting or hit just before the change over to hyperspace.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

I figured the whole hyperspace thing only worked because Hux is an idiot and wanted to shoot down defenseless transports rather than a capital ship, no matter how dead in the water it looked.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Dreamworx
Why didn't they just scramble fighters at them?

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Evil_kitten
Because Hux is an idiot
I think that's one of the recurring themes in this film

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@iluvmen
@Evil_kitten
The man is a general not an admiral.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@TurtleCat

They let Tagge command starships, and he’s a general.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Dreamworx
@iluvmen
Hux was a somewhat useful idiot and I liked that Snoke was fully aware of this.

Firespawn
Firespawn

So the Hyperspace Tracking thing was actually foreshadowed in Rouge One

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Firespawn
Should've just said kylo could sense leia.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@TurtleCat
Watching the Resistance and First Order navies in battle is like watching Luigi Cadorna do battle against these guys. Can anyone do anything right in the ST without wasting ludicrous amounts of manpower and highly expensive equipment?

iluvmen
iluvmen

A friend of mine just got out of X-Wing and gave me his entire collection. The game looks like fun, although I have no idea how to play.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@iluvmen
Sell the figs on ebay.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

What dumb little bits of EU lore do you love or refuse to forget despite being inconsiquential?

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Gigastrength
Press F to pay respects

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@iluvmen
https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/fb/b4/fbb4f847-b3f8-4fcd-8724-cb03f67c26b5/swx36_learntoplay.pdf

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@Gigastrength

One time Mon Mothma got poisoned by nanomachines that no medicine or tech could deal with, and a Jedi Healer was able to slowly, painstakingly use her powers to isolate and remove each and every nanorobot in her body. Because "Size Matters Not," works both ways. It was mindblowing in 8th Grade.

happy_sad
happy_sad

I'm taking a break from DMing my pathfinder game, and I was thinking of running a Star Wars campaign, but I've never used any of these systems. Can someone give a brief rundown of the strengths and weaknesses of some of the systems?

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@happy_sad
The FFG system has special dice pools which are really good for determining degrees of success or disadvantages but sometimes a nigga just needs a yes or no, it also has really bad vehicle combat. Never played d6 or saga.

Spamalot
Spamalot

What should you do if someone in FFG stabs an unconscious person with a lightsaber? I mean, even with a high vicious quality you're looking at pretty low odds of the person dying.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@Spamalot
Houserule in coup-de-grace if the stabber is looking to kill. Role play the injury given to the victim if not.

Inmate
Inmate

@Emberburn
I love that he was almost made canon as an iron knight

likme
likme

@Spamalot
Unless they're in some sort of mega super suit or they have vital organs in a super unusual place they should die.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Gigastrength
The fact that General Grievous had a fuck ton of wives and children before he got the metal gear rising treatment always tickled me, just the image of this kaleesh murder machine as a guy with family seemed to jarring

Supergrass
Supergrass

@Sharpcharm
Seeing as their species are reptilian, I'm hoping the Kaleesh were heavy meat eaters.
Now with that I'm reminded of that quote from Men in Black. "Good, war. That means more food for my family."
Grievous is a good family man.

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Supergrass
tfw Grievous will never teach you how to ride a bike
https://youtu.be/GF0rqlgdaHM?t=24s

Firespawn
Firespawn

@CouchChiller
What WAS his legacy, then? His students were either killed or turned to the dark side, and the government he helped establish through years of struggle was overthrown in the span of a day. Even Rey didn't need his teaching. Luke's heroism amounted to nothing.

Yes, it was due to his error, but that error was unbelievably out-of-character and not a natural consequence of his arc. That arc was finished in Return of the Jedi: he turned his father to the light, thus vindicating his optimism and idealism.

Nuwars demolishes Luke's character, and, in doing so, attacks the ideas he stood for. Make no mistake: it's not a result of the writers misunderstanding the originals -- the people who wrote Nuwars hated Luke. He embodied the simple truth. He struggled for his beliefs with goodness in his heart, and his reward was justice. The writers at Disney (i.e. their ideology) couldn't abide such ideas in a world where the reward for hard work is continued wage slavery, where nations are no more than bundles of laws, and where the only acceptable thought is policed by corporations.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@SniperWish
hurr. I liked when the space ship did a skid, like in fast and furious. I clapped.

Evilember
Evilember

@Ignoramus
Ever go to school for something you found really interesting, only to have to read so much on the topic that it sucks the passion out of it?
My 11th and 12th grade history teacher almost killed my love for ancient civilizations, the only good part about it was that I never would have known how much of a baller Crassus was

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