/5eg/ Fifth Edition General

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

Unearthed Arcana: Three Subclasses
https://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/UA-3Subclasses0108.pdf

Trove
https://rpg.rem.uz/Dungeons%20%26%20Dragons/D%26D%205th%20Edition/

5etools
https://5etools.com
latest update-https://mega.nz/#!pQURTRDD!D0_R4jIXvN_wTZ1z-clszujTR3vVYaHYHXO1XnAzNrI
Use the Readme to get it working if you're computer illiterate, or ask for help ITT.

Resources
http://pastebin.com/X1TFNxck

How do you feel about science fiction elements in your games?

Previous bread /tg/thread/57399886#p57399886

All urls found in this thread:
https://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/UA-3Subclasses0108.pdf
https://rpg.rem.uz/Dungeons%20%26%20Dragons/D%26D%205th%20Edition/
https://5etools.com
https://mega.nz/#!pQURTRDD!D0_R4jIXvN_wTZ1z-clszujTR3vVYaHYHXO1XnAzNrI
http://pastebin.com/X1TFNxck
https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/936045559026028544
https://twitter.com/Zephid11/status/936019037838020610
http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com
https://thegiddylimit.github.io/variantrules.html#action%20options_dmg
Skullbone
Skullbone

@Lord_Tryzalot
Magic is indistinguishable from even modern day technology.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@Skullbone
What if said technology is deemed anachronistic?

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@SniperGod
Then it's even more so the same. It's just magic by any other name.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@BunnyJinx
So the issue is really a non-issue and and also bullshit,

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

Whats the objectively most fun class

Methnerd
Methnerd

@Boy_vs_Girl

wizard

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Boy_vs_Girl
Bard. Singing and insulting people is always fun.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Lord_Tryzalot
I like at least small amounts of magitech gobbledygook. Spooky abandoned magic mad science, that sort of thing.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Boy_vs_Girl
Bard probably

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Boy_vs_Girl
Any class you find fun.

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Boy_vs_Girl
Depends on:
1. Your system knowledge
2. What you've already played before
3. What other teammates are playing
4. What kind of campaign is being run
... And numberous other factors.

It's impossible to make an objective measurement without a large-scale survey or you being more specific.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Sharpcharm
Some of my players are for it, some others are adamantly against it's inclusion.

JunkTop
JunkTop

@Garbage Can Lid
I can see that, my own opinion's gone both ways on the subject before. Too much of it just raises a lot of questions, with the "vaguely middle ages anachronistic time period" most fantasy games take place in relying on technology staying at a certain point. But I definitely don't mind the old cliche of old wizards with time and resources to spend on vaguely bullshit-alchemy-science-stuff.

5mileys
5mileys

@JunkTop
Good points, I do agree. How do you feel about the inclusion of futuristic technology in a high fantasy game? Does that still cleave to "sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic?"

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Boy_vs_Girl
Depends. On the ideal campaign, Bard and Paladin, on a munchkin terrible DM probably a divine or Draconic Sorcerer to fast forward through combat

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Lord_Tryzalot
Anyone have anymore of these fun cheat sheets, I'm playing with some new folk who might need the help.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Bidwell
You're gonna have to explain this one to me. How exactly do Draconic Sorcerers "fast forward" through the combat. I played one awhile back, and at the low levels before you can reliable spam Fireball they're pure torture. None of the versatility of the Wizard, none of the reliable damage output of the Warlock.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@CouchChiller
It is more of a long term strategy, indeed.
I had a tortorously bad DM for over a year whose idea of combat was running masses of bags of HP against our hypnotic pattern Bard have the party pinata the crap out of it.

So the maximum amount of damage in the shortest amount of rounds.

TreeEater
TreeEater

Which barbarian path makes most sense for a barb who is actually just an insecure coward pretending to be a fearless warrior? I play rage as being a rush of adrenaline and fear

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

57383075 #
All three are really really good, depending on what you pick. I hate sounding like an MMO-fag but Tundra Herald and Ancestral are both good tanking options, the other two storm heralds have excellent damage for their action economy (and CON casting), and Zealot hits like a train and never stays down.
Ancestral has a nice fluff option, but the damage mitigation coupled with a 4th edition style mark mechanic makes yo actually put in work with that D12 and weapon resistance, and that's a very good thing.

TechHater
TechHater

@Bidwell
@CouchChiller
@Bidwell

Want to play a Red Draconic Sorcerer for FIREBALL EXPLOOOOSIONS
DM makes the first 4 levels go slow as fuck
Finally get to level 5
Awwyeah, I finally have fireball unlocked! I get to EXPLOOOOSION things now!
DM proceeds to make half the combat encounters against fire-resistant enemies or enemies with fire resistant gear.
DM says I have to pick out a new feat when I told him I picked Elemental Adept (Fire) as my free human feat.
Also says I have to center the fireballs on enemies instead of casting it behind them (to avoid hitting my own allies).

Dunno, felt like sharing my experience with Sorcerer. Never had any of this bullshit happen when I picked Wizard, not sure why.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@TreeEater
Ancestor's maybe? Could make it so the spirit that helps in his rage is an ancestor who actually was a great warrior, and leads enemies to attack him in hopes he'll get brave.

5mileys
5mileys

@TechHater

Its because your DM is retarded

cum2soon
cum2soon

@TreeEater
Which barbarian path makes most sense
Berserker. And i firmly believe it is only only that makes sense in general.

Well, actually, i am willing to consider totemic barb as well, but it think it is pretty narrow archetype.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@TechHater
Fireball is kinda super overpowered for it's slot level. No spell of it's level (except lightningbolt) does nearly as much damage, and no lower level spell can be scaled up to do nearly as much damage. I wouldn't blame a newer DM for not knowing how to deal with it.

That being said, he should have discussed it with you so you could both reach a agreeable solution instead of building all the encounters to counter you specifically.

Then again DM's talking to their players is the answer to like 80% of the problems in the game.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@Boy_vs_Girl
WOT4E Monk. Who doesn't like being the underdog.

WebTool
WebTool

@TechHater
If a DM said I had to center fireballs on creatures I'd consider walking out.
At the very least I'd respec. It's like saying clerics can only heal downed allies

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

Given Divine Souls ability to grab any cleric spell from level one, would it be balanced to remove the requirement for Theurge to grab all their domain spells before grabbing other spells from the cleric list?

Playboyize
Playboyize

@Raving_Cute
No.
Divine Souls have very few spells known. Wizards are in best 'spells prepared' tier and already have arguably best selection of spells. Also, they can just learn spells from scrolls, which sorcerers can't.

TechHater
TechHater

@Raving_Cute
Only if you remove the Wizard's ability to learn spells outside of the level ups, such as from scrolls and stuff.
Honestly this rule should be enforced on all Wizards anyway, not just theurges.

Kinda just leaves you with a shitty cleric with less HP and Armor, assuming the player didn't multiclass for those things. Healing in combat is generally a waste anyway, and out of combat you might as well leave it to the Bard or real Cleric or whatever.

Nojokur
Nojokur

I'm pretty sure most of you hate Critical Role, but I wasn't able to watch most of the premiere. Can I get some spoilers for their new races/classes?

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Nojokur

Sure bud


Travis = Half-Orc Hexblade
Sam = Goblin Rogue (Female)
Laura = Tiefling Trickster Cleric
Liam = Human Abjuration Wizard
Ashley = Aasimar Barbarian
Talesin = Tiefling Blood Hunter (One of Mercers OC classes)
Marisha = Human Monk

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Nojokur
Didn't watch it but an image of character stuff was posted a bit back. Liam is an edgy wizard, Taliesin is a jovial blood hunter, Travis is a Warlock, Marisha is a drunk monk, and still an idiot who cant read flurry of blows any more than spells, they have a tiefling cleric... And i forget the other details. I wanna say they rolled stats and Marisha obviously had nothing below 10

Emberburn
Emberburn

@TechHater

In all honesty, I'm the player in this instance. We're planning ahead for next game as the current one is due to come to an end and Theurge seems really crap themetically when it plays exactly the same as a wizard prior to level 10 for the most part.

Plus, no domains get Zone of Truth

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Carnalpleasure

Marisha actually has one of the worst stat pools, along with Ashley

Laura has total modifiers of +13, at level 2. Ashley has +5

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Boy_vs_Girl
@Carnalpleasure

Thanks anons

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

Has anybody made any homebrew for 5etools or knows what format it would need to be in?

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@Boy_vs_Girl
Sam's character Nott is great. I'm not really interested in Fjord, Travis' Hexblade, yet - but I expect good things from how much I liked Grog.

Ashley's Aasimarbarian and Laura's Tiefling Cleric are kind of annoying. Hope they get better.

farquit
farquit

@Stark_Naked

I have high hopes for Jester, trickster clerics are my fetish

But 5eg isn't the place to be shitting up with CR talk that most people don't care for

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Emberburn
Theurge isn't crap, it's one of the more powerful wizard archetypes IN THE RIGHT PARTY.

Access to healing is super huge for wizards. Especially in a party without any healers already. It's just that if you're in a party where there's already a dedicated healer, the value drops off dramatically. A regular cleric will fill the role better and do it with more durability.

If your DM is letting you find/aquire spells to copy into your spell book easily, however, and you just wana nab an entire seperate class' spellbook, fuck you, you are being That Guy.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@SomethingNew

Judging by the current campaign (level 19), the current wizard has found a single spellbook in the entire campaign and already got two new spells from it

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@Illusionz

only got*

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Emberburn
With the exception of Abjuration and Divination, MOST wizards don't play like anything special until level 10+. You're trading meaningful class features for a huge versatility of spells. Play Warlock or Sorcerer if you want a caster with lots of class features.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@SomethingNew
Why would you allow a wizard *more* Utility? They already make every other class useless in comparison

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

So let me just make sure I get this straight:
Wizards are dudes who worked hard the honest way to learn magic
Sorcerers are undeserving talentchads
Warlocks are sluts

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@VisualMaster
Pretty much, except wizards are virgin, friendless losers who got too bullied by the martials.

hairygrape
hairygrape

A new player is potentially joining my group today. They won't know any of the rules. They want to play a magic person. I was just going to make a quick character for them, and later, if they stick around, they can make their own.

What's the best magic class to put them as? I was thinking arcane trickster rogue, but we already have a rogue, so there might be some overlap there.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@hairygrape

Warlock

SniperGod
SniperGod

@hairygrape
Ironically the paladin.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@hairygrape
Warlock maybe? They wouldn't have to worry about preparing spells, and cantrips are easy to get your head around.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@hairygrape
Give them a magical monster stat block to play, with a brief character description. Have them be the parties escort side quest, don't bother with a real character with pc stats for a potential one off. Monsters are easier.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@RumChicken
Because Theurge is still a shitty cleric with less durability.

Bidwell
Bidwell

how do I bully my dm

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@Lord_Tryzalot
I like that sheet, but can't you use your reaction on someone elses turn?

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Bidwell
heat metal and fog

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Crazy_Nice
You seemed to miss the part where theurge is also wizard.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

If I hold both ends of a rope, and then cast rope trick on it, does it just lift me as high as I want?
The spell says one end of the rope rises into the air until the whole rope hangs perpendicular to the ground, but if I hold the rising end so that it carries me with it, and hold the other end of the rope up with my other hand, that will never happen.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Crazy_Nice
Its got mage armor, access to shield, and potentially every cleric spell, on top of booming blade with a quarterstaff if you pick a domain with divine strikes, or god help you if you take Zeal from the Amonkhet PS, and then slapdash EK on top of it.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@PackManBrainlure
Two actions are possible:

Your character is instantly acclerrated beyond light speed, becoming pure energy and dying, as the rope trick spell travels an infinite distance in 6 seconds. You have to make a new character sheet, who will be introduced sometime in the session.

Or the rope trick spell rises until the rope COULD be perpendicular to the ground.

Your choice.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@VisualMaster

potentially every cleric spell

Clerics only have 18 spells?

SniperGod
SniperGod

@PackManBrainlure
@w8t4u
Or the rope extends to its full length anyway, ripping the character in half.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@w8t4u
Your character is instantly acclerrated beyond light speed, becoming pure energy and dying, as the rope trick spell travels an infinite distance in 6 seconds.
I got a good laugh out of that, thanks user.
It's always fun for ambiguity exploits to be thwarted with more outrageous ambiguity exploits.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Emberburn
If you want to steal the best cleric spells then you have to put the dedication in and focus on cleric spells rather than stocking up on the best wizard spells.
It's simple enough.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

What would you say to someone saying "that's not how I DM"?

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@SniperGod
That actually couldn't happen, since the spell explicitly states "one end of the rope rises."
Nothing pulls on the other end of the rope.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@AwesomeTucker
A player to clarify.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@AwesomeTucker
I would tell him that it's fine to discuss it after the session, where his opinions will be considered, but in the interest of time, let's move on for now.

5mileys
5mileys

@AwesomeTucker
"OK."

And then either deal with how they DM, or pick my things and go home.

Is there anything else to it? I sense story.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

I'm going to have a high level bad guy wizard use Dream on my players. How can they block it (beyond being an elf or not sleeping)?

Supergrass
Supergrass

@Stupidasole
What level are they?

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Supergrass
7th level; a ranger, a wizard, a rogue, a paladin, and a bard. They have some slightly higher levels NPC allies, as well.

askme
askme

@Stupidasole
Actually, it's utterly harmless. But it is a phantasm and mind effecting so it won't work on mind barred people, nor will it work on the dead or undead.

Most importantly, the recipients can't question the bad guy, and he can't learn anything from them. It's literally harmless.

idontknow
idontknow

@Boy_vs_Girl
DM

Oh I thought you said worst.

Techpill
Techpill

No casters or healers
How fucked is my party

Evilember
Evilember

@Techpill
Very. /5eg/ memes don't actually work.

WebTool
WebTool

Thoughts? I ported the Voldur from 3.5e homebrew to 5e. Wanted to replace the Savage Strikes with a version of Resilience.
If you hit 0 HP but aren't killed outright, you can make a Constitution check (DC10) to stay fighting until the end of your next turn.

StonedTime
StonedTime

What's generally better: an archer with sharpshooter, a GWM with GWF, or a PAM with GWF?

eGremlin
eGremlin

@King_Martha
At that level there isn't much they can do, they and the paladin could sleep in turns, and get his CHA mod as a bonus for their saves
@askme
If you fail the saving throw against Dream you don't get the benefit of the rest.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@StonedTime
What's generally better: ranged, melee, or melee?

Nojokur
Nojokur

@Stupidasole
Mask of many faces / disguise self / endless applications of fog cloud. If you never knew the creature properly in the first place you can't target them.
Or any form of the swampman philospihcal debate may work where a completely identical creature appears just as the old creature dies.

In theory, a deaf and blind creature that can't dream sufficiently may not be affected as they neither take the message nor notice the whole horror ordeal.

Contingency with dispel magic or a friend using dispel magic should be able to undo the dream spell before the end of 8 hours.
Antimagic effects, too.

Leomund's tiny hut is the most likely possibility.
Mind blank would block it.
Rope trick, mordenkainen's magnificient mansion and any form of not being on the plane while sleeping would block it.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@StonedTime
Archer for DPR, PAM and Sentinel for mini battlefield control.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@Lord_Tryzalot
Would you allow disarm as an ability contest even with a battle master, and related maneuver, around?

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@StonedTime
Archery+CBE+SS is the strongest unless you have a feature that specifically requires melee. It does almost the most damage yet has extreme flexibility and runs off of dex, which is all great.
Shillelagh+quarterstaff+duelling+shield+PAM is best on a paladin but you should keep an ranged option.
GWM+PAM is best on a barbarian though you should keep a ranged option.

Really, it depends on class.

farquit
farquit

@StonedTime
PAM lets you get an extra attack in while still holding a shield. Its leagues better than anything else if you have on-hit bonuses.

happy_sad
happy_sad

My players. Could not. Break out. Of jail.

Not even after I gave them a hole in the floor in one of two cells. Party of six, one a CoM druid. A tabaxi rogue.

Level 2.
No guards.
They had all their stuff.

Jesus Christ

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@askme
The bad guy is attempting to bother them from hiding, trying to force them to act before they're ready! He wants them to come after him, especially now when he believes that they're ready for them.

However, Dream is an illusion spell; would it not work on someone, for example, who's mind can't be read, such as with an amulet of proof against detection and location?

@eGremlin
That's the big kicker, not getting the benefit of a rest. They're in the city, now, relatively safe, but the bad guy is pushing them on, almost taunting them with his power in the hopes they'll march off and get themselves killed before they can stop his plans.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Fried_Sushi
Nope, that would be like giving wizards or bards the chance to cast a spell unnoticed while there is a Sorc with silent spell in the party

Snarelure
Snarelure

@BunnyJinx
Fireball is intentionally OP because it's iconic, but Erupting Earth actually scales better when upcast (higher average damage at 6th level or higher) unless your Fireball AoE is completely full of enemies.

SniperWish
SniperWish

In addition, the players are going to get a "care package" from a lawful good-aligned secret society, mostly of healing items and similar sorts of things; suggestions for what's in the care package?

Make it interesting things!

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@SomethingNew
I would allow mind blank or any magic which brings the party to a new plane to make them immune from dream

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Boy_vs_Girl
I'm potentially building either a barbarian (zealot) or a blood hunter (lycan or ghost slayer). The blood hunter could be any weapon build but the barb would be a minotaur or goliath with some fuckhuge weapon and take absurd advantage of my DM's crit rules (max dice then roll and add).

JunkTop
JunkTop

@SniperWish
In addition to what?

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@JunkTop
I'm the guy trying to screw my players with Dream.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@SniperWish
A diamond for resurrection, magic ointments, some healing potions of varying rarity, an amulet or a periapt, each PC could get a different one, it could be an amulet of health or a periapt of proof against poison at that level, or maybe a periapt of wound clousure or even an amulet of proof against divination if you want something less powerful.

This way they can decide if they want to share and on who gets the stronger ones.

FastChef
FastChef

For a druid player I have who wants to make healing potions for the party; poke holes in it anyone?
Your "Sacred Plant" when collected in quantity, in combination with certain other mysterious herbs and roots, can be alchemically treated and refined over the course of one long rest to create a simple rejuvenating tincture.
Requires four successful dc14 nature checks (while traveling the relevant terrain) to collect materials and one long rest to make the tincture.
A tincture can be consumed as an action, any creature who does regains 1d6+1 hit points or 1d6+3 if it is being consumed by the tincture's original creator.

Soft_member
Soft_member

A player elected to play a temporary character because his current one has been captured and the party make take at least 2 sessions to rescue him.

It'd be fair to give his actual character any xp the temporary guy gains, right?

happy_sad
happy_sad

@FastChef
Downtime of a year = hundreds of potions
I mean, sure, if your DM is fine with it. Or you could just take the damn healer feat.

askme
askme

@FastChef
Druids have Herbalism kits, so they can actually make potions of healing by downtime rules.

Inmate
Inmate

@Boy_vs_Girl
A tie between Light/Tempest Cleric, Evoker Wizard and Draconic Sorcerer

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@Soft_member
From a gameplay perspective I'd say yeah. I assume all the other party members are same level?

hairygrape
hairygrape

@Soft_member
Sure.
The character is gaining the experience of being a prisoner, after all. That's something new.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@lostmypassword
They're the same level, with a slight xp difference on two of the characters (around 300 or so, those players both missed a session).

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Lord_Tryzalot
I've run stuff like Temple of the Frog before, as well as adapting ideas from it for 5e and adding other stuff.

Always a good time.

askme
askme

@Snarelure
Erupting Earth actually scales better when upcast (higher average damage at 6th level or higher) unless your Fireball AoE is completely full of enemies
Cone of Cold deals more damage than both with a 5th or 6th level slot

idontknow
idontknow

@StonedTime
Crossbow expert with sharpshooter, then GWM PAM, then longbow sharpshooter, then GWM

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@askme
@happy_sad
I am the DM; wasn't worried about downtime much but in game. He's already made a character but doesn't yet do much with it. He seemed keen for some kind of druiding around looking for herbs in between towns and fights and anything else, so I wanted to make him a microsystem where he can get that seek and craft need met.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

So who else likes the new Plague Mon- I mean Spore Druids?

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Garbage Can Lid
Meh. It's the least shitty design out of a trio of shitty designed subclasses.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@happy_sad
how can these people not see the obvious solution when I, who designed the challenge, can?

Fuck off.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Lord_Tryzalot
I'm down with scifi in fantasy, In fact I'm running a scifi campaign in 5e now, magic and stuff is still a thing but the players have guns and stuff now.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@Sir_Gallonhead
Level 2
no guards
all equipment
party includes a rogue and a druid
No, you fuck off. Even without the DM giving them extra options, escaping those cells should have been trivially easy.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@haveahappyday
i hate sci fi in fantasy, or at least guns.

why use melee at all other than super close quarters combat if you have guns?

RavySnake
RavySnake

@VisualMaster
The brute is the best design, actually.
Braindead simple for new players
Allows new players to use any weapon and get a bonus - even their fucking fists if I recall right.
Bonus to damage has anti-synergy with SS and GWM but also works well if they crit to make their crits feel relevant
Being good at saves means they're punished less for the inevitable stupidity they'll do when they can't work out how to avoid the saves in the first place and they can spend more time whacking things
Two fighting styles for more versatility
Later ability is distinctly quite nice and gives them tankiness to let them do more stupid things

It's the perfect new player class champion was supposed to be.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

Reposting from a previous thread: Looking for something in the way of potion-crafting rules, official or homebrew.

I'm familiar with the general "Catch-all" crafting rules in the DMG, but they feel like an odd fit for potions. For instance, a magic item of common rarity costs 100g to craft in a process spanning four full days of downtime. Your basic healing potion is a common magic item...which you can buy from virtually any store for 50g. Immediately. So yeah, I understand these crafting rules for more permanent magical objects, but not for common, quick consumables like low-level healing potions. Or for that matter, uncommon potions. 500g over 20 days to make a single potion of water breathing? Seems to shortchange anybody who want's to play an alchemist on the fly.

But anyway, yeah, any worthwhile revisions?

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@Burnblaze
What did they come up with that was so wrong?

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@BlogWobbles
people will defend rolling for stats

whereismyname
whereismyname

@RavySnake
Champion was already fine for new players user. We don't need to reward braindead players by making them twice as good as slightly less braindead players.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@whereismyname
Champion is shit, we need a GOOD braindead class

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Emberfire
Not them, but guns might be limited in shots.

Myself I prefer a Clarkean approach. If running an Expedition to the Barrier Peaks in 5e, I'd make the technology count as magic items. Such as the Mirror of Magic Missiles (blaster pistol)

And of course, there's aliens in Volo's guide.

askme
askme

@WebTool
When will Of Two Bloods come up?

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@RavySnake
new players should only be able to interact with the game via combat
It's shit for new players because they can't do anything other than fight. It's just an excuse for WotC to slip into the old mindset of "Fighters should FIGHT, nothing more."

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@whereismyname
Champion was hardly fine.
Doesn't work well with low damage dice weapons
Synergy with GWM seriously encourages feat taking
Weird level 7 ability that nobody realizes gives them a boost to initiative and, uhh, maybe gives them a small boost to a couple of other things but that's not why you pick champion
Isn't actually any good in the first place unless you do weird funky barbarian multiclass builds taking advantage of the fact barbarians are mostly frontloaded

Brute actually promotes a player who goes 'okay I'll pick up this mug and attack with this' because he's doing +1d4 or whatever the heck extra.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@Garbage Can Lid
Champion is shit, we need a GOOD braindead class
On one hand, i am inclined to agree. On the other had, i am pretty sure i don't want my game to have two classes with same niche where one is clearly and undubitably better.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@askme
It's more of a flavour thing. If there's specific magical items, potions, feats, or whatever else the DM thinks of that's limited to specific races ("Only Elves can enter this magical forest" "Only Orcs are able to lift this stone").

Has no use unless the story or DM calls for it.

TechHater
TechHater

@Garbage Can Lid
@kizzmybutt
Champion was fine. It dealt as much sustained damage as any fighter, and even offered a small bit of utility. The fact that you're arguing champion was bad because it had at least one thing it could do slightly better out of combat is laughable. Brute is terrible design because they took the one out of combat ribbon and doubled damage for it. Fucking brainlets, I swear.

@Deadlyinx
For skilled players there will never be a good champion type class. It's too boring. But brute is a step in the wrong direction in every aspect of its design.

FastChef
FastChef

@whereismyname
i don't wanna say champion was underpowered, but it didn't feel strong either. for the most braindead subclass ever, it just feels kinda there. Like just pick this if you don't know what you want and it's just serviceable

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@Evil_kitten
@Emberfire

I am him, and guns have limited ammo before needing an action to reload, unless it's made by a certain company where's a bonus action. Also since they are from a fantasy setting starting out they don't start out with proficiency in guns

Spamalot
Spamalot

Are there any good magic item creation rules?

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@lostmypassword
You have to appreciate there are people who don't want specific abilities for out of combat. It's a class for both braindead people (who aren't going to use those abilities and it'll just confuse them) and for people who don't know enough about the game to know how the heck they're supposed to use Pass Without Trace or Minor Conjuration or Detect Magic to their fullest and instead it teaches them the most important thing that applies between all characters they'll play in the future - actions every character can take out of combat.

askme
askme

@FastChef
don't wanna say champion was underpowered
Thing is, if you compare extra damage you get from crits on 19 and extra damage you get from Superiority dice... Battlemaster comes on the top.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@FastChef
it's just serviceable
it's not "serviceable". Last time I played a Champion I never rolled a 19, it's just a badly designed subclass

Emberfire
Emberfire

@PackManBrainlure
exactly, it's a class where you're good in combat 10% of the time.

SniperGod
SniperGod

Any ideas for homebrewing up a system that returns magic to a universal magic type thing instead of just being the Sorcerer's schtick?

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@VisualMaster
For a "Common Magical" item, consider that the retailer and original crafter of a potion must both expect to make a profit on their time and effort. Divide retail price by 4 to get cost price for the manufacturer, except in certain case:. Time to make, ingredient and supply rarities etc- these would make the cost lower, as every other alchemist faces the same costs and charges retailers accordingly for the product.
No need to thank me, Citizen
t. Freemarket Paladin

DeathDog
DeathDog

@PackManBrainlure
@FastChef
It's not even just that champion isn't strong. There are good weapons to use with champion and bad weapons to use with champion. That fucking sucks for a new player who doesn't understand what weapon they're supposed to use with champion.

FastChef
FastChef

@haveahappyday
People can simply ignore abilities they don't like. This has always been the case, and frankly, wizards should stop balancing the game for people who are so braindead or autistic that a single ability on a class not for combat in a game that is supposed to be 2/3rds not combat, would ruin the experience for them. That's bad design, because that is designing around mental illness.

@askme
Short rest abilities versus constant abilities. Your damage calculation is true in the short term, but not over a longer fight IIRC. Either way, the difference wasn't so absurd that doubling the champion's damage is appropriate.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@DeathDog
Agreed, Champion is only good if you're playing a Half-Orc with a greatsword

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@FastChef
if you don't like what I like you are retarded bwaaaah
kys

Your damage calculation is true in the short term, but not over a longer fight IIRC.
Not even long term

Either way, the difference wasn't so absurd that doubling the champion's damage is appropriate.
You could triple Champion's damage and it would be barely better than BM

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@SniperGod
Okay, let's try that again.
Any ideas for homebrewing up a system that returns metamagic to a universal magic type thing instead of just being the Sorcerer's schtick?

WebTool
WebTool

@BlogWobbles
Thank you Freemarket Paladin.

May the Invisible Mage Hand protect you.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Evil_kitten
if you don't like what I like you are retarded bwaaaah
user, I don't like the champion. Our differences in preferences have no bearing on my assessment of your mental illness. It's literally because your entire argument relies on saying that a level 7 feature that can be used out of combat and in is too much for new players and grogs to handle (what new player starts at level 7 anyways?).

Not even long term
Yah long term. You have a limited number of superiority die.

You could triple Champion's damage and it would be barely better than BM
prove it.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@Boy_vs_Girl
Cult of extacy

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@FastChef
You can ignore abilities
I mean, we could have a long list of abilities that most people ignore (and we kind of do in terms of tool kit proficiency and the like) but we don't need to throw even more of that shit at new players on a new player class when it's things like 'you can jump further' when they don't even know how far they're supposed to be able too jump in the first place.
Background and skills are all the ribbon ability that's needed. If you give anything beyond ribbon abilities then it's just empowering the experienced players over the new players in using the new player class archetype.

They don't need 'to be able to eat fish raw without vomitting' to be able to do things out of combat. They can talk, they can use items, they can create shit with their bare hands. I could possibly agree with a slight boost to skills to make it so they're more likely to succeed at these out of combat ideas but one of the alternative 'new player class' which is a little trickier is rogue which focuses on skills anyway and they could pick that if they wanted good skills.

None of the fighters are really built for out of combat utility, really, but they get ASIs which can be used for out of combat utility feats if they feel they need any.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@kizzmybutt
see the first third of @ZeroReborn

The champion ability is a small boost to skills user. Further, it happens at level seven. It isn't going to confuse the vast majority of new players because:

1. most players are far smarter than you are.
2. most players start between 1 and 3, meaning they won't be new by the time they get this ribbon
3. It's a really simple stat boost.

FastChef
FastChef

Alternatively we remove every class except for bard, wizard, cleric and druid because other classes can't do enough out of combat.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@ZeroReborn
It's a really simple stat boost
Most players have no idea how to use their extra jump height and usually it just comes down to 'roll athletics and you either succeed or not' anyawy
Not even the DM tends to know that you can add the bonus to initiative
The player probably took proficiency in at least two of any of the four skills that it gives +half your initiative on
Until level 9 the boost is literally only fucking + fucking 1
Giving new players these barely noticable boosts when other classes are getting shit like level 4 spells or battlemaster gets a slight boost or whatever is going to make them happy
Most new players will never even get to this level but they'll be turned away because they have no idea why they would want to be slightly better at sleight of hand when they didn't pick up proficiencies for that anyway
The rogue could just do it 10x better anyway
The only time it's ever likely to come up ever is when making straight strength checks if your DM doesn't do athletics for everything

At the very least give a proper yet simple fucking ribbon like battlemaster gets a tool kit proficiency alongside their usual feature at level 3. Fighter doesn't have time to waste getting nothing on level ups.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Spazyfool
crit with greataxe is 3d12, coming to 19,5 on average
crit with greatsword is 5d6, coming to 17,5 on average

Are you fucking retarded anon-kun?

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@FastChef
You might have had a point if Brute had ANY abilities that mattered out of combat. It's not and argument of "what it has isn't enough," it's an argument of "IT DOESN'T FUCKING HAVE ANYTHING."
That's just poor design.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@StonedTime
Oh, I see the problem. You think everyone is as retarded as you are.

Thanks for the anime girl concession though, now fuck off.

5mileys
5mileys

@Raving_Cute
user, you're dealing with someone who thinks the peak of 5e design is a class with 0 out of combat abilities.

Techpill
Techpill

@TechHater

Wait, what the fuck do you mean "told you to pick out a new feat?" Did he communicate that to you before the game started? No? Then she can go fuck herself with the business end of a shovel instead.

There are few things that piss me off more than DMs arbitrarily deciding shit. You either:

establish it at the start of the campaign
leave it open-ended
discuss it with the player and work out a solution

DMs that just randomly decide that should have their fingers shoved into a garbage disposal

Flameblow
Flameblow

@PurpleCharger
Op jail here.

They rolled bad, forgot about skill d4 from cleric and didn't work together. Nothing was set up for them to discover, I didn't even consider how they would do it before, I just put the hole in one cell floor and left them in two. One of them, an hour later, long after jail, goes, oh, I had a crowbar. Shit like that.

Basically they thought a commoner level str check could bend the bars or I'd just leave a key.

But their biggest problem was they each tried something serially, individually. Once four pulled a single bar, two to a side, with cleric die on top, suddenly they were able to bend the bars. But I basically did have to say, "well why don't you work together"

Good times

TechHater
TechHater

@FastChef
Short rest abilities versus constant abilities.
Correct me if i am wrong, but i don't think that is the case.

Premise:
========
8 encounters in adventuring day, with 2 short rests in between.
Every encounter takes 5 rounds. (That is roughly 40 rounds of combat.)
Battlemaster uses all his Superiority dice between short rests for maneuvers, that add damage.
[W] means weapon damage (for example 2d6 for greatsword).

Champion's extra damage
=======================
3d level
In 40 rounds of combat, chamipion does 40 attacks. About 5% of them (i. e. 2 attacis) benefits from the Improved Critical.
Thus extra damage champion deals is 2*[W]. (14 for Greatsword.)

5th level
Number of Champion's attacks (and thus his extra damage) doubles.
Extra damage is 4*[W]. (28 for Greatsword)

11th level
Number of Champion's attacks increase once again, and with it the extra damage from crits.
He now makes 120 attacks in 40 rounds of combat and he will benefit from Improved critical 6 times on average.
Extra damage is 6*[W] (42 for Greatsword.)

15th level
Champion's crit range increase, meaning he now crits on 18 as well, doubling extra damage he gets from this subclass.
Extra damage is 12*[W] (82 for Greatsword.)

Battlemaster's extra damage
===========================
3rd level
BM uses all of his 4d8 superioriy dice, for 18 total of 18 extra damage... per short rest. Meaning with effective usage of Superiority dice and proper resting...
BM will do 54 extra damage.

5th level
BM's extra damage stays at 54.

11th level
Battlemaster now have 5d10 superiority dice (average 27.5). They still refresh on short rest.
BM who uses all his Superiority dice effectively will be able to deal 82.5 extra damage.

15th level
He gains one more superiority dice, for dicepool totaling 6d10.
BM does one average 99 extra damage.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@Raving_Cute
Remind me why any class other than the major spellcasters exist again when having out of combat abilities matters so much?

To bring up a point I made earlier again, it's the training wheels class. Anything that class can do out of combat they can also do out of combat on any other character, which makes the skills more transferrable, and when you throw someone into D&D they go from video game 'you're restricted by the game' to 'you can do anything you could in real life in theory' and that's already more than enough of a jump for people without tacking on extras.

idontknow
idontknow

@5mileys
It honestly is when 30% of 5e players don't even use their abilities at all in the first place.

Playboyize
Playboyize

My biggest issue with brute is that even by average on the rolls, it outdoes Rage damage at all levels, not counting action surge or the level 11 meme
IN ADDITION to the extra ASIs fighter getz

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@CodeBuns
Are you fucking retarded anon-kun?
YOU are retarded if you can't see why you should wield a greatsword instead of a greataxe

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@idontknow
First: [citation needed]
Second: balancing for the lowest common denominator is never peak design, almost by definition.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Burnblaze
balancing for the lowest common denominator is never peak design, almost by definition.
Not him, but what is, then?
What's wrong with that?

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@TechHater
8 Encounters in a day
The fuck kind of game do you play that involves that many encounters? I'm guessing there is little to no roleplaying involved in your games user.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Need_TLC
The fuck kind of game do you play that involves that many encounters?
Read the DMG

happy_sad
happy_sad

Can I get some PHB reaction images?

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Playboyize
Barbarians have more HP, resistance to damage and at -will advantage

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@BlogWobbles
You end up with brawl instead of melee, SC2 instead of broodwar, Super Mario Sunshine instead of Dark Souls, and Checkers instead of Chess.

The lowest common denominator still wants to improve, and do more fun stuff. But if you balance the game for them, they won't have that option, because there will be nothing past them to get to.

Instead you should balance/design for a more middle ground, erring on the side of your more experienced and interested players. Let the lowest common denominator ignore without cost what they don't understand. That's fine. It's a lot harder for the more interested players to create what isn't there, if you balance for the lowest common denominator.

Or to put it more succinctly: you make the most people happier by treating your players like not-morons.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@Need_TLC
DMG states 6-8 encounters as standard. I opted for higher number, since it benefits the underdog (and he STILL looses).

Methshot
Methshot

@happy_sad
What we really need are XGE and DMG images

TreeEater
TreeEater

@Sir_Gallonhead
What kind of fucking retards do you play with where they can't handle having more than one option at a time? Sure some people forget their bonuses here and there sometimes, but how do you honestly believe that newer players should not have anything to experiment with?

If you're so worried about a player freaking out about having to (god forbid) read the rules of a class and use their brain to apply those features, then why not just make them play a fucking commoner with all 10s in their stats?

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Boy_vs_Girl
No, you read the DMG. Nowhere does it state that you should be facing 8 combat encounters a day.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@lostmypassword
Thanks for your explanation.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Flameblow
Not a very experienced party then? I mean they'll learn from it, you have too - start dropping hints sooner. Did they not even notice a hole in the floor of the cell while walking around it looking for keys?

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@Boy_vs_Girl
I know the DMG says it, but that doesn't mean everyone follows it & besides won't the champion & battlemaster get bored of fighting & give up if they have to fight that many times in a day. Thereby reducing both averages to 0 & making them both realize they are actually inferior to the CHAD casters because they have actual social skills.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@SniperGod
It's still incorrect. The DMG lists the maximum a party can handle, not what it should be expected to face each adventuring day.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Methshot
I'd gladly take those too

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Need_TLC
Encounters in this context means "situation that requires the use of resources." Nobody has 8 combat encounters per day unless they're on a dungeon crawl.

askme
askme

@Boy_vs_Girl
I'm pretty sure this is a load of bullshit.

likme
likme

@SniperGod
The average party should be expected to see at best three to six encounters per long rest, eight is an absolute meatgrinder where you're attempting to drain everyone's resources to nothing

eGremlin
eGremlin

@askme
I'm pretty sure it's from one of the lead designers of 5e.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@Boy_vs_Girl
Interesting... What does it mean that character is tuckered, though?

@askme
https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/936045559026028544

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

GM decides to let us split our exp however we want
We get a pool of exp based on our accomplishments and encounters, and then we do whatever we want
He is surprised when we suddenly one shot an encounter with a fireball when he expected us to be level 3 at most
Yeah we are pooling a lot of up front resources into this guy, but so far the GM cannot touch us with CR6 encounters with a group of 4 people, levels 2/2/2/5. Next step is to get the rest of us to 4, before powerleveling the wizard again.

I am not sure what he expected us to do when he gave us this option, but he sure is adamant about saying "That was never the intention!" But without actually taking away this option.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@askme
He was trying to justify Healing Spirit, Crawford never admits mistakes

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@eGremlin
Who is known to lie and make things up in order to deal with complaints.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@askme
https://twitter.com/Zephid11/status/936019037838020610

Here's the whole chain.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@SomethingNew
Please explain to me where the user meant encounters as in:
situation that requires the use of resources
Because by the looks of it he was referencing combat only abilities (& he directly mentions that the 5 rounds for each is about 40 rounds of combat altogether).

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Boy_vs_Girl
CR is designed around a PC party at their net
Jesus wow, you would think the lead fucking designer played his own fucking game. This is so blatantly wrong, and never holds true in actual play, that I have a hard time believing this is even real.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@viagrandad
Crawford, Mearls AND Perkins don't use CR in their own games. The CR system is busted.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@DeathDog
have new player
picks champion
protection style
longsword

Players are so cute when they're new

FastChef
FastChef

@PurpleCharger
Tuckered = worn out, though I'd have gone for the synonymous yet more powerful adjective "Fucked"

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Fuzzy_Logic
Next step is to get the rest of us to 4
Why not 5th, though? That is significant power-leap.

Soft_member
Soft_member

What would be the save for correcting yourself from a deathspiral when skydiving, Dex or Con? I need this for a bossfight.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@StonedTime
The hole was there but I left them in separate cells with no master plan because giving them the hole into the sewers was railroady enough and I didn't want to remove any more player agency than necessary.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@Soft_member
CON to not pass out from the air resistance, then DEX to twist yourself into the right position and work your chute right. Can't be as easy as just one, it's a boss fight

SniperWish
SniperWish

@lostmypassword
You mean it's an approximation.
Sometimes, I wonder how you idiots function.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Snarelure
Doesn't help when the pre-made from WotC site is lietrally this

DeathDog
DeathDog

@SniperWish
An "approximation" that falls apart after 5th level.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@Nude_Bikergirl
Best virgin Chad pic ever

happy_sad
happy_sad

@DeathDog
If you're just going to exaggerate, all I have to do is say "Nuh uh" and you end up looking like an idiot when you keep pressing forward with your exaggeration.

askme
askme

Could someone bring me up to date on why everyone hates CR apparently? not looking to start a big discussion I'm just curious, seems to me like they've done a lot of good in making the hobby more popular.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@happy_sad
I'm not, though. The Challenge Rating system falls apart after 5th level.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@askme
It's just a shitposting troll. Ignore the cunt.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@StonedTime
Took protection for roleplay reasons, but yeah. And let's not forget when I asked 5eg you're the ones who recommended my new player take champion in the first place.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@lostmypassword
sitll trying

Trip up so people can filter you.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@Burnblaze
implying they have parachutes
implying the boss doesn't have the potions of levitation that they need to reliably save the entire party which she is playing keepaway with
the boss could just let them fall and shoot the party if they try to levitate or something but she just wants to kick their ass while they're falling
So Dex to correct themselves? Got it.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

Drinking or even smoking at the table?
What are your guys experiences with it?
If a player or DM gets too intoxicated and derails the session or even causes character deaths, how do you handle it?

Player is hosting session
Goes through quite a bit of bourbon
Starts trying to roll other people's dice
Thinks its funny to attack everything in character
DM goes with it
At one point a different player's character gets knocked unconscious by a crit
Drunk player yells out "NAT 20!"
Stands up and slams his palm on player's mini
Demolishes mini
Other player looks like he's about to cry
Was a custom kitbashed, painted mini
Shit got awkward fast

hairygrape
hairygrape

@Illusionz
But how fast are they falling? I'd make them make CON saves at least once to not pass out briefly if they're falling at freefall speed.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@StonedTime
literally whats wrong with this? it's hardly a compelling character but nothing wrong with it mechanically

FastChef
FastChef

@SniperWish
If the all the game's fucking designers ignore their encounter creation system, that is a pretty compelling argument towards it being a waste of time for everyone else too except as a very rough guideline

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@askme
Probably because:
a) it's popular and draws in casuals
b) tumblr loves it
c) a big serving of "you're having fun the wrong way!"

Supergrass
Supergrass

What are some tips for a transmutation wizard

takes2long
takes2long

@Supergrass
Remember your that you have your magic stone thing

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@haveahappyday
what the fuck, I mean I'd be hesitant about even 1 or 2 bears, but spirits? that's just asking for trouble.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@haveahappyday
I know some people like to play like that, the point of game night is to get drunk, but I don't game with drunks. Gaming is my only social time with adults, if I wanted to hang out with shit faced chads I'd go to the sports bar instead.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@FastChef
You mean they don't pay attention to a general approximation because they have a more complete understanding of the nuances of the creatures and their relative strength in comparison to the particular make up of the party?

CR is an at-a-glance way of gauging a creature's power along with rough estimates of how combined creatures might challenge a party. The book explains all this, if you had bothered to read it.

Now, be quiet. Adults are talking.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@PackManBrainlure
bears are notorious gaming distractions...but real talk my DM had a couple of beers and was just a little more relaxed it was alright but also he knew when to stop

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Lunatick
It would delay the wizards spell progression too much.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@BunnyJinx
tumblr loves it
Source?

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@PackManBrainlure
DM brings out spirit bears
gonna need a drink for this encounter

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

How does that spore circle work? Are you just covered in mushrooms?

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Harmless_Venom
Just eat the spirits. And then maybe a dead god for dessert.

likme
likme

@Stupidasole
just go on tumblr and search it, there's loads of fanart, don't really see how that's a bad thing but there you go

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Burnblaze
listening to anyone who says Champion is for new players
The only people who recommend Champion are the kind of people that hate new players and don't want to deal with the newbie asking "can I do this?" every five minutes so they just say to play a class where that answer is always "no."

DeathDog
DeathDog

@haveahappyday
Your player in question is a dick. I've never seen problems with drinking or smoking at the table if you can still conduct yourself well enough to play, it's more a problem with him (and his problems with alcohol) than an innate problem with D&D&Drugs

TechHater
TechHater

@likme
I think he's talking Challenge Rating not Crit Role...though that may have just been my reading

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Emberburn
So what's the best class for a person who is completely new to the hobby?

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@BinaryMan
There is an amazingly functional drunk in my board game group, we're talking hard core alcoholic, peach schnapps dragon breath drunk. It pisses me off, but at least at my table I can boot them.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@TechHater
original question poster here, I was talking about Crit Role, though I admit I picked a bad time to ask.

likme
likme

@hairygrape
enabling the possibility of TPK off bad luck
I wouldn't rule that you could wake someone up if they the reason they fell unconscious in the first place (air resistance) was still being inflicted upon them (i.e. still falling, same speed, same air resistance if not moreso due to increased air pressure of falling further), and because of that, placing who is able to fight the boss on a single batch of rolls is bullshit. It's common that people fail saves, and making it easier doesn't eliminate the rational possibility that they might not get a chance fight the boss. This is why I'm opting for gaining control of yourself while falling being the thing to roll for, because you roll for it every turn, perhaps other party members can help with it at the cost of their own turns, and it can be reapplied during the fight with special moves that send them spinning.

Also, if you couldn't tell, this isn't exactly a simulationist campaign, so some things that might happen have been left out for rule of cool and playability.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@haveahappyday
Kick him. Getting drunk and destroying someone else's property--especially with that much time and effort involved--is beyond unacceptable.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@Stupidasole
A rogue is pretty simple at early levels, learn your way up in the game without having paragraphs of spells and nuances to sift through by level 3

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Nude_Bikergirl
Then kick the problem player and carry on man

eGremlin
eGremlin

What was the bullshit with the aasimar racial feat? Wasn't it advantage on all magic related rolls?

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@Fried_Sushi
Yes, at least other fighters. Battlemasters not only make it a save DC rather than opposed check (which you could homebrew adding their superiority die to as well) but their attack deals damage while disarming while a regular one still has to hit just to remove a weapon.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@viagrandad
Ah gotcha, I was mistaken. CR isn't my cup of tea, what with multi hour episodes only available on streaming and I think Youtube(?) I prefer Dice Camera Action, I like and know the players there, but even then I prefer podcasts because I can consume them on my own time

whereismyname
whereismyname

@Stupidasole
Really depends what that person is going to enjoy, its hard to tell when they haven't played at all.

I'd say bard though because it lets you try a little bit of everything, good skill checks and expertise, full spell casting that's just spells known and eliminates the confusion around preparing them, extra attack if you want, and it even allows you to try out spells you wouldn't normally get if there's some you really like the look of.

Not to mention the support they bring doesn't require them to focus on it so they won't feel like you suggested it just to be an "Inspiration bot" or whatever.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@Stupidasole
Warlock. Simple introduction to spells, you don't have a huge list to comb through for any given situation, lots of custimization with invocs/pacts/spells, they get their spells slots back on a short rest so it's fine if they're bad at resource management, it's easy to swap out things they don't like on level ups, and as lng as you tell them to pick up Eldritch Blast at level 1 they'll always have something to let them contribute.
It's a class with a built in safety net so you can experiment to your heart's content, and having a patron means the DM has in character way to direct them.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@CodeBuns
CR has a podcast version, though. Cuts out all the sponsor shit and fanart shit.

All 115 episodes are up as of Thursday.

MPmaster
MPmaster

@Lord_Tryzalot
Use an Object doesn't include magic items. It would be nice if it did, as it would makes thief a better option.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Lunatick
I might check it out then

5mileys
5mileys

@CodeBuns
Crit role has podcasts, the first campaign is fully up as podcasts and the second will have the previous episode the morning of the following Thursday (i.e. campaign two episode one will be up this Thursday).

massdebater
massdebater

@askme
I don't hate it.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@eGremlin
Gnomes already get advantage on all magic saves for WIS, INT and CHA so it's not totally unprecedented, I dunno how base Aasimar measures up though so...

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@askme
@viagrandad
Same reason people usually hate e-celebs, it's not actually relevant most of the time in the discussion at hand. I don't care what people watch, but it's annoying when we have a thread derailment to talk about some talking heads instead of the game they're playing.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@Fried_Sushi
Read the dmg.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@haveahappyday
Work fifo
Get drug tested for job
Inform table of this
Go take a piss
Come back to a player blazing up
Ask player to stop or I won't keep DMing
She pretty much goes "Nah man, it's cool! It's not even a drug, it's just been misclassified"
Leave
Fucking stoners.
I know second hand smokes has a lower risk of being detected, but I didn't want to risk it. Heavy machines, liability and drug tests are not a good mix.

Methnerd
Methnerd

@kizzmybutt
Not saves, any roll. Like even spell attacks.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@Methnerd
@eGremlin
What racial feat? I'm looking and can't find anything about advantage on magic stuff.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Deadlyinx
Give me a few hours to get back to my home PC but I got some homebrew saved that was good for herbalism.

Methnerd
Methnerd

@haveahappyday
Thats not drinking, thats alcohol abuse.

I frequently smoke pot prior to or during sessions. At worst it makes me slightly slower on intake and response, but as a player, i trust my ability to play, i never get high enough that I cant play. Use your substance of choice correctly, dont abuse it, and you'll enjoy dnd like any other time

If your players are incoherant like in your story, they are problem individuals. Crushing minis, what kind of asshat does that, even if they are drunk or high?

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Sir_Gallonhead
IIRC it was in Xanathar's Lost Notes to Everything Else, so it's just shitty homebrew. I think someone put it somewhere in the trove if you want to take a look.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Sir_Gallonhead
It's in here

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@SniperWish
Oh, so it's shit.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@Nojokur
I'm a stoner and i find that shit rude. Always ask if its chill to smoke if you're not alone, dont just assume. if someone has mentioned some kinda thing like a drug test where one person minimum cant smoke, ask.

Lady sounds very thoughtless.

cum2soon
cum2soon

I need some input. My group finished LMoP recently, and I'm prepping Curse of Strahd now. I've done Death House once as a one-shot, and liked it, but it's very long. The one-shot lasted 10 hours and we didn't even do the living-house escape scene at the end. Now I am wondering if I should include Death House for my new campaign. I'm afraid it'll just murder them outright; the place is pretty tough and they are new players still. LMoP is very forgiving compared to CoS. They will probably quickly feel attached to their own PCs, and getting murdered a few hours later may feel bad. On the other hand, starting at level 3 might feel awkward too.

What do you think? To Death House or not to Death House?

w8t4u
w8t4u

Why does everyone who wants to homebrew a barbarian Path want to give them fuckin' spell slots?

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@PurpleCharger
I think it's technically official shit too

WebTool
WebTool

@haveahappyday
I would say that you could make a whole thread about this, but we all know how autistic those always turn out to be. Really the most important things about any kind of drugs at the table are:
1. Make sure everyone present is okay with it and you aren't hampering their fun.
2. Follow the host's rules especially closely.
3. Know your limits, and don't go overboard.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Stupidasole

Fighter, Rogue, Barbarian. You have a few fun abilities and there isn't too much like spells and the like to keep track of.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@w8t4u
Because Homebrews are universally shit.

JunkTop
JunkTop

@Gigastrength
Nah, it was made by the D&D beyond people, not the D&D design team itself. It's homebrew, and lousy homebrew at that.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@w8t4u
I miss the Bloodrager.

@CouchChiller
It's funny, the DMG even has a bit encouraging you to do it as long as you don't overshadow the base classes.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@Need_TLC
Bloodrager?

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@Spamalot
@Nojokur
I’m also a smoker and/or a drinker (Yeah, I’m a fucking degenerate. It helps me get lost in my character and we only play on the weekends anyways).

That shit is rude and you were in the right to leave. Potheads forget smoking is still illegal and smoke is really irritating. You have to be considerate of others. Frankly, I don’t even smoke around strangers because it’s beyond rude to assume they’ll be okay with you even asking if you can.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@lostmypassword
Bloodrager is a PF class, it's basically a hyrbid of Barbarian and Sorcerer. It's really fun, but I don't think anyone has managed to do a good job of recreating it in 5e.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Emberfire
Board game group owner is too much of a pussy. I even offered to do it. All I can do there is not play at the same table, and I decided I would leave rather than endure another game with him.

JunkTop
JunkTop

@w8t4u
They see barbarians as having a sort of druid ritualistic backstory. Less about protecting nature and more about being in touch with nature spirits since they have to live in harsh environments. I could see some arguments for a barbarian that mostly gives himself buffs through magic, and rarely, but giving them slots, or a smite of some sort is just asking for trouble.

RavySnake
RavySnake

@JunkTop
@Burnblaze
See I'm good with stuff like Storm and Zealot, things that are magic in nature because barbarians are pretty in touch with natural primal magics or their god specifically bless them it's when they get SLOTS that's when I draw a line.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@RavySnake
Same. I don't mind martial being able to channel magic or having support stuff, but gishes in general are a bad idea, and nobody has ever done one well.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@GoogleCat
What's wrong with valor bards?

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@RavySnake
@GoogleCat
I Third this. Barbarians are the one class that absolutely shouldn’t have spell slots. They’re the quintessential meathead

Flameblow
Flameblow

@GoogleCat
See I don't mind gishs, a study of magic and swordplay is find but barbarians are warriors that explicit carry raw emotion and strength into combat, barbarians don't go to a fighter school.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@PackManBrainlure
Enlighten me.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Flameblow
4e Barbarians were better. They were primal warriors that called on the powers of the ancestors, the spirits and the elements.

askme
askme

alright lads I'm DMing for the first time after playing on and off for maybe 4 years. My group are all first-timers that I've known since high school (24 now). Starting at level 1 and running Lost Mines of Phandelver. Any tips for first time DMing or the module itself specifically?
also, how do you deal with covering up the pre-made maps from the module? it seems like a good idea to stop them seeing the whole layout of the dungeon. I have a bigass tv. should I put the maps, pictures and initiative order up on that via roll20/fantasy grounds/windows picture viewer instead of printing it? I'd still print character sheets and bring the books, but it seems like a good method of presentation. What do you think?

Snarelure
Snarelure

@SniperWish
Hey, another opportunity for me to shill my shitty homebrew.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@ZeroReborn
No, I mean that almost the entire CR system is effectively useless and best ignored. You don't need to have worked in the game to eyeball more accurately than CR would tell you.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Snarelure
I didn't make this, it was D&D beyond pre order and people were asking about it

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@askme
Actually read the book cover to cover. Don't be afraid to improvise though, also relax you'll do fine

Emberburn
Emberburn

@RavySnake
Playing a storm barb is fun, especially because it can give some out of combat utility. My character (Desert) has a tendency, whenever the nobles we have to deal with get dismissive of us, to leave scorch marks on their carpets or curtains with the “set things on fire” action.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@askme

Be descriptive. Attempt to give them a mental image of the dungeon. Only draw out parts if they have tools (Cartographer's Tools) for it, or if they get into combat.

Playboyize
Playboyize

@Snarelure
https //pastebin.com/gMDS2u5j
rip posting

WebTool
WebTool

been mad at myself i haven't worked on my homebrew in months
take the time to make a proper mega folder then organize everything into smaller folders and individual files

At least I did something, now working on my half-dragon race

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

What the hell is wrong with a Paladin who's also nice?

girlDog
girlDog

@StonedTime
Rogue is a my go-to for new players.
You learn a decent amount of skills right out of the gate so you're not limited to being combat only.
You deal a decent amount of damage from sneak attack. And depending on the archetype you choose, the class rewards you for being a sneaky rogue - which is usually pretty satisfying to newcomers.
Between each of the archetypes you'll likely find something that suits the kind of character you want to create.
Good class. 10/10 would bang.

massdebater
massdebater

@Lord_Tryzalot
Nothing, and anyone that says that is probably some form of edgelord who's not out of high school yet.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@Playboyize
the fuck is this?

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

friendly reminder that 5E is going to become more like 3.5 every day and there's nothing you can do about it

MPmaster
MPmaster

@WebTool
Godspeed user.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@Snarelure
My shitty homebrew.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@ZeroReborn
k, I mean that's what happens when an RPG get a billion fucking splatbooks and that's just the nature of games.

Inmate
Inmate

@Lord_Tryzalot

They tend to attract waifus, which makes the edgy death warlock ninja master jealous.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

Polearm Master gives you +2 AC until the beginning of your next turn when you attack a target 10 feet away.

Thoughts on this as a house rule?

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@happy_sad
http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com

Here you can make it look nicer and it'll be easier to read.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@ZeroReborn
oh i know it, but at least it seems like some of the more bullshitty parts of 3.5 will be kept at bay.

be ever vigilant, make sure you never give anything to the wizard class, ever.

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Gigastrength
There's zero reason to buff PAM to begin with.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@ZeroReborn
Friendly reminder that people who say like this never actually played 3.5e and thus don't understand just how different 5e is from it.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@Lord_Tryzalot
Character is a Niceadin in Ravenloft
I'm doing everything I can to keep them from giving in and upholding their morals at every turn

It's tough, but it's oh-so-satisfying to play.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@RavySnake
This would be a replacement to the current PAM, sorry.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@Sharpcharm
It would need to be good enough mechanically before I care to make it look nice and about halfway through making it ages ago on 5eg i stopped getting criticism on it. Ain't gonna polish a turd and I don't know if its crap or chocolate.

farquit
farquit

@Lord_Tryzalot
So you're not looking for notes? Got it.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@farquit
Only if you care enough to do so.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@Gigastrength
eat shit

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@VisualMaster
Casters are the best class in the game by far because they can interact with the story in more ways while also being good at fighting
Martials can still do fuck all besides damage and skillmonkey stuff that is generally better solved by spells
Martials used to have cool stuff and wizards weren't quite gods but then they rolled back most of the playtest stuff to be more like 3.5 on purpose after fan complaints
Every single splat powercreeps casters while giving martials gimmicky shit
The skill system is still stupid

the only real changes are that magic items and feats are way less key, hybrid casters don't suck ass, they solved save or die with all the elegance of a video game by introducing monsters that get to just go "no it didn't count" like an anime villian, and the HP bloat is a little less absurd

it's still a war game pretending to be a weird medevial simulation game, and you're still a sucker if you can't cast spells.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Snarelure
OH GOD AN UNOPTIMISED CHARACTER WHAT HAPPENS NOW

SniperGod
SniperGod

@Carnalpleasure
Literally all of this is solved by banning Wizards from play though.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@viagrandad

They fight bad guys, save the kingdom, marry the princess, and live happily ever after, user.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@SniperGod
then instead of wizards you have bards, sorcerers druids and clerics running wild on everyone

Firespawn
Firespawn

@Sharpcharm
How do I make bullet points in this shit?

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@SniperGod
Some of the most fun games I've had have been martial-only, purely because problem solving involves more than "Ok, everyone check their spell list for something that will fix this", you can't just dominate person your way past door guards and shit etc etc

Nojokur
Nojokur

@SniperGod
With an * astrix before you type there's a side bar when you first start out to help you see what you can do

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@Carnalpleasure
It was 10x worse in 3.5 even only using the core rules. A specialist wizard could easily have 6 9th level spell slots, and was assumed to have access to magic items that let him quicken spells of any level for free and recover spell slots of any level. Not to mention because of the caster level system their lower level spells would keep getting stronger. 20d6 fireballs and those weren't shit compared to the other stuff they could do.

It was a whole other world of imbalance and shittiness. I haven't even mentioned the lack of 5e's concentration mechanic, or how spells with saves usually only had one save before they would last their entire duration. It was a bad scene.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Carnalpleasure
@Booteefool
Cut down the spell lists. It solves most of those points without really messing with any important mechanics. A lot of people in this general may cry that you're taking away choices from players, but if you make it clear upfront that you're nerfing casters and the players still complain, that's not your fault

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Nojokur
Sorry that was for
@Firespawn

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Booteefool
Bards are less of a problem if you also ban the Wizard spell list and Sorcerers/Druids/Clerics are more or less balanced in comparison to Wizards since their spells are more utility based and they have fewer spells that explicitly sidestep the narrative.

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Lord_Tryzalot
I like Concentration when it fucks over the smug wizard in my group. I don't like it when it prevents our buff-focused Sorcerer from putting out fly *and* haste on my Barbarian.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@Techpill
Fix both at once: celestial patron warlock with healer feat. Cure Wounds every short rest, drop 5sp for 1d6+4 every rest (healers kit with healer feat) and a pool of bonus healing dice every long rest. I'll have to a full comparison to the cleric, but I think it might work out better.
Or someone else did the math already.

whereismyname
whereismyname

What spells are so gamebreaking that you guys feel the need to complain about wizards like this?

I've been making a list of spells that might be abused and while a lot can create problems if you want to run a specific campaign, the only one I have banned outright is simulacrum.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@Lord_Tryzalot
All of this is true, but also irrelevant. My original post was that it was becoming more like 3.5, not "5e is EXACTLY THE SAME as 3.5"

5E has the same issues, they just aren't as extreme as 3.5 was and the game is better about it. Except that opens up the argument that it's actually WORSE than 5E, because while 3.5 makes a pretty great system for comic book superhero wizards with infinite options doing dumb shit, 5E instead has handicapped wizards that still do everything better than everyone else. Martials lose in all cases (except they get to roll more dice in 5E) and casters have less fun.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@SniperGod
I really wish WOTC would treat Wizards like FFG treats Jedi.

Jedi are explicitly balanced different than other careers, they are *meant* to be more powerful especially later in the game. But the nature of the rulebooks means that it's very highly recommended that you don't throw Jedi characters into campaigns that focus on smuggling/piracy/criminal etc.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

Wizards isn't going to risk another 4e so don't expect them to start culling the 3.5 sacred cows anytime soon. Especially since they apparently want make the next edition compatible with 5e

The options are to homebrew or switch to a different system.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@whereismyname
it's not nessicarily about them being game breaking, the simple fact that spells exist at all in the way they do is fundamentally the problem

the only ways a martial can solve problems are with physical violence/force, using one of their skills (which all have spells that do the same thing but better while being tied into a single casting stat vs using every stat for skills), or just making a bunch of shit up and hoping the DM lets them do it

meanwhile casters have a bunch of hard coded in the rules options that let them effectively go "ok, the story will be going in this direction now", to the point where 5E needs to include a bunch of equally hard coded magic that goes "that other magic doesnt work now, sorry". Even something as simple as create water has dozens of ways that can change things that martials straight up can't do and that means that they fundamentally just can't interact with the story and events in the same way, and that's just one of dozens of spells casters have.

If D&D tries to sell itself as being some kind of group narrative adventure experience thing, having one person in the group that can interact with the world in a lot of hard coded ways that nobody else can seriously throws off the dynamic

If D&D is just a game about murdering things and taking their gold, casters are still better because they never really solved the fact that casters can do stuff like kill an entire army in one move, or instantly put a bad guy to sleep and then curbstomp him, ect ect. They just made it so wizards can't do all of these things at the same time.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@TreeEater
Berserker

Only totally flipping out and killing people frees you from your paralyzing terror.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

if you want a game with actual caster v martial balance where everyone has options and can do cool stuff with a lot of the same focuses that D&D has, play anima instead

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Lord_Tryzalot
a friend showed me his homebrew PDF for his magitech setting, it had high level magitech armors with force fields and the such. gave me a science fiction vibe just reading it.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@Dreamworx
Anima? More like ANIME.
checkmate bb

massdebater
massdebater

@MPmaster
thank's satan

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Dreamworx
anima
If that's the system I think it is, for that level of crunch you're better off switching to GURPS Dungeon Fantasy and adding stuff from other sourcebooks as needed

Other viable options for heroic-ish fantasy are Shadow of the Demon Lord which is 5e meets WFRPG, and a fantasy themed low PL M&M game

GURPS and M&M may suffer since point buy systems don't tend to do character progression very well, though

FastChef
FastChef

@BinaryMan
or switch to a different system.
Which one, though.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@happy_sad
the whole gag of anima is that it's a very silly and anime setting that has everyone in charge trying really hard to trick most of the population that it isn't

you can absolutely run a super gritty campaign where a single good sword hit can instantly kill you and learning even a low level spell is an arduous process that requires weeks of time

@Flameblow
the problem with anima isn't so much that it's super crunch heavy as it's arranged in kind of a confusing manner and also has a shoddy english translation. once you actually understand what the fuck is happening it's pretty easy to automate.

it also avoids the point buy issue you were talking about, character progression is maybe the best part of animas entire system in terms of hitting all the right sweet spots

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@FastChef
@BinaryMan
I recently switched to Blades in the Dark and I like it a lot.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@kizzmybutt
I recently switched to Bleach and it's a marked improvement tbvhfampai

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

I haven't played 5e in months

whereismyname
whereismyname

@BunnyJinx
fuck living

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@Lord_Tryzalot
@Lord_Tryzalot
Is there a pdf of the op somewhere

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

how to make 5e good?

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@SomethingNew
Play it

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

does mobility affect all speeds? cause it just says speed

meanwhile, the squat nimbleness feat from xanathar's specifically mentions walking speed

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@SomethingNew
Have a good group

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

Can anybody think of a less killable build than a zealot barbarian with relentless endurance?

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@SomethingNew
It's already good and flexible enough that you can fix what you personally don't like about it.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@PurpleCharger
It just says speed, so presumably it also applies to any swim/fly/burrow speed you get in addition to walking speed.
@Harmless_Venom
long death monk, just save all your ki to deny death several times per short rest, plus temp HP

TreeEater
TreeEater

@Harmless_Venom
a Bear totem barbarian with relentless endurance for all levels of play that matter

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

Why does forcecage fucking exist?

StonedTime
StonedTime

So does Hexblade's curse and Champions Improved Critical stack? I'm assuming they don't given both are worded to reduce a crit from a 20 to a 19, not reduce crits by 1 wholesale.

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Harmless_Venom
Brute Fighter/Bard

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@TurtleCat
the devs needed something for you to be salty about.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Poker_Star
@TreeEater
Ok, I guess I should have said immortal. That free res is dumb.
@TurtleCat
Because fuck martials.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@Sharpcharm
literally whats wrong with this?
It's bad, Standard Human, Protection is barely useful and Battle Master is just better than Champion

They should've made a Half-Orc with GWF instead or a Human BM with Dueling

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@StonedTime
no they don't stack.

@CodeBuns
Ok, I guess I should have said immortal. That free res is dumb.
that free res doesn't mean shit unless you know someone capable of casting it.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Harmless_Venom
Long Death Monk. You can just no-sell going unconscious until you run out of Ki.

Add to the fact that Monks are innately more survivable against most things that aren't just pure damage.

massdebater
massdebater

@SomethingNew
It is as good as DnD can at the moment.

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Need_TLC
Two party members with various forms of it.
@Garbage Can Lid
You can do that on a barb too, not necessarily as many times but then again not dropping at 0 or even dead (while still surviving with a single heal) is pretty damn good.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@whereismyname
With GWF a Greatsword has 8.333... average damage, while the Greataxe deals 7.333...

Even when you factor crit damage the Greatsword deals more damage on average (and more consistently as it relies less on criting than the Greataxe)

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@SniperGod
Would Wizards be more balanced if spells known cost +1 if they were from a different school to the one selected: So a transumation wizard could learn "Shield" for the same cost as "Pyrotechnics"? I realise this isn't ideal at all and probably gutting to all but Evocation Wizards (especially to non-arcane school wizards).

Inmate
Inmate

@haveahappyday
Wow that's fucking obnoxious.
My group will usually have 2-4 drinks each throughout a session, one guy goes overboard on occasion but the worst he does is make a lot of dick jokes.
I also went a little overboard once and stubbornly stuck to a plan once it was clear it had gone sideways but that was totally in character for my PC anyway.

JunkTop
JunkTop

@GoogleCat
this is bad design because there's not enough spells for each school at each level. this doesn't force wizards to specialize as much as it just punishes them in general. wizards don't have too many spells, wizards just break encounters when they have the exact spell for the situation.
@haveahappyday
never drank more than one drink at a session, we've smoked before though. just don't do a pre smoke cuz then you might get stuck watching a shitty resident evil movie instead of preparing for the session (like I did)

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

I want to make a Brute/Monk based around this guy, should I just dip out of Brute at 3?

farquit
farquit

@GoogleCat
So level 1-2 you can only cast spells from your school? Sounds rough. Only abjurers would have mage armor out the gate.

Where does that leave war wizards/bladesingers and any future schools?

Some schools don't have spells at every level. There are no level 7 or 8 wizard divinations, for example.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@Lord_Tryzalot
Brute's extra damage doesn't apply to unarmed strikes.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@RavySnake
The Long Death Monk's crowd-control fear is quite useful I find because the easiest way to kill one is to swamp it with attacks and force it to burn all it's Ki.

takes2long
takes2long

@happy_sad
Ah dang it I knew it seemed to good to be true.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@whereismyname
It's not about gamebreaking spells like Simulacrum+Wish and Healing Spirit, those are easy enough to ban and be done with. The problem is that Wizards are capable of things that martials can just straight up never accomplish, and sometimes just cast a spell to completely invalidate something a martial specializes in. The only thing casters lose at is a war of attrition, which doesn't come up in most games as often as balance requires, and often times when it does it's just not fun. The problem spells aren't things that break the game in half, but shit like Fly which gives the caster so much more potential than the martial that people just don't realize how important it is. Other such spells are things like illusions, Cure Wounds, Charm Person, Dominate Monster, Tiny Hut, Identify, Divination, Knock, Tongues... Things that can do things that martials can do only faster and more effectively, or something they simply can't replicate no matter how hard they try. It's not a matter of "the fighter gets a peashooter while the wizard gets a tank" like it was in 3.5, but it's still annoying that it's "the fighter gets an automatic rifle with infinite ammo, but the wizard gets to pick 5 from the following: [single use airstrike, pistol, grenade, extra unit, land mine, satellite phone, tic tacs, $4000, diplomatic immunity, RV, 6 doses of morphine, dirtbike]."
It's why shit like the newest UA is scary. WotC is convinced that "more damage" is equivalent to abilities that can interact with and change the course of the story in innumerable ways.

Now don't get me wrong, I love 5e. It's my system of choice and I don't want to permanently switch to something else. Caster supremacy now is NOTHING compared to 3.PF. I'm not trying to say the game isn't fun or balanced to a degree (thank god for bounded accuracy), it just means that as long as WotC gives magic casters the ability to act outside the achievable span of actions that martials can, it won't be a FAIR game.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@JunkTop
Yeah I realise that, although it would limit the times they had the exact spelll for the situation (depending on subclass). I'd rather not go in the other direction and overbuff matching magic to school types to encourage it nonetheless, it's just irritating that an evoker or abjurer can have such a range of utility spells for no cost. You'd think that wizards would have to specialise or else each "school" would be moot.

JunkTop
JunkTop

@BinaryMan
apparently want make the next edition compatible with 5e
So... 5.5?

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Carnalpleasure
I think ultimately the problem with Fighters (and Barbarians and Rogues to a slightly lesser extent) is that the game refuses to acknowledge it's own core principals that heroes after level 11 are basically superheroes.

Why *can't* Fighters just go Super Saiyan and fly around and lift mountains and shit? I mean the majority of mythological figures that you could consider by some stretch to be a fighter didn't just walk around and swing their sword at things.

Snarelure
Snarelure

Thoughts on a barbarian (with 13 int) having the cloistered scholar background? They'd basically have heard about something important to their religion and spent time researching it then eventually seeking it out.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Snarelure
seems fine to me senpai

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Bidwell
Why *can't* Fighters just go Super Saiyan and fly around and lift mountains and shit?
Nothing stops you from doing this by RAW except your DM

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Bidwell
Why *can't* Fighters just go Super Saiyan and fly around and lift mountains and shit?
Because their players don't want to. We've had this argument countless times.

Martial players (not all, but more than the other group) want heroic, but realistic-ish heroes, not mythical ones.

Wizard player wan't reality to be their bitch.

Obviously, solution is to play either levels 1-10 or 11-20.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@CodeBuns
nothing is stopping you from ignoring the rules RAW

massdebater
massdebater

@Lord_Tryzalot
When did they add tumble/overrun?
I don't remember it from the PH

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@CodeBuns
rules don't say you CAN'T do something
do you have a burrow speed of 100 just because the rules didn't say you don't have one?

Snarelure
Snarelure

@Soft_member
Obviously, solution is to play either levels 1-10 or 11-20.

Then make an optional rule system in the PHB, this seems like such a ridiculously simple have your cake and eat it too scenario.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@massdebater
In the DMG under "action options" in the DM's workshop chapter.

https://thegiddylimit.github.io/variantrules.html#action%20options_dmg

SniperGod
SniperGod

@Bidwell
Why *can't* Fighters just go Super Saiyan and fly around and lift mountains and shit?
Because in D&D, character fantasy and class fantasy are huge aspects of the game. In D&D, the fighter IS largely mundane. It's been that way for 40-odd years, and that is the expectation placed on fighters to this day. *Fighters* don't fly or lift mountains.

And yes, people will hem and haw about muh sacred cows, but they also completely miss the point. D&D is all about its own mythos, building on top of itself over and over for decades while taking in influence from the outside and making it its own. It's all about its own internal character archetypes. D&D with fighters that are mythological demigods by default would not be D&D--which, while not affecting new players, would have a definite effect on any old players, which are a huge part of the D&D community. The makers of 5e largely realized this, and that is why characters impact the story in largely different ways: because they're expected to.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@Bidwell
You know what I'd like? A "mythological heroes" sort of UA. With some rules to support play at higher levels that does want the Barbarian to be Hercules, and the Monk to be Liu Bei. Maybe with shit like "once per short rest the Fighter reduce the amount of extra attacks by 1 for one minute to double his STR, DEX and CON scores for the duration of that minute," or something like that.
It would be a nice break from the stream of shitty archetypes that we keep getting, at least.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@happy_sad
@Poker_Star
There are no definitive DCs for Athletic checks, the DM could let you jump to the Moon by RAW if he wanted

massdebater
massdebater

@SniperGod
The makers of 5e largely realized this, and that is why characters impact the story in largely different ways: because they're expected to.

This is the problem though, Fighters are literally incapable of impacting the narrative outside of Fightan, which literally every class can do as well. The fact they also have some of the worst skill versatility in the game is just the cherry on top.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@Fried_Sushi
I know this was just a hypothetical thing you're throwing out but they would never let you double your ability scores because you would break the cap of 30 and it would involve a lot of tedious recalculations

@Spamalot
That would be a horrible solution because the difference in what a fighter and wizard can roll in athletics checks is minimal if not nonexistant if the wizard actually has strength for some reason.

Methnerd
Methnerd

@Spamalot
High Jump. When you make a high jump, you leap into the air a number of feet equal to 3 + your Strength modifier if you move at least 10 feet on foot immediately before the jump. When you make a standing high jump, you can jump only half that distance. Either way, each foot you clear on the jump costs a foot of movement. In some circumstances, your GM might allow you to make a Strength (Athletics) check to jump higher than you normally can.

You can extend your arms half your height above yourself during the jump. Thus, you can reach above you a distance equal to the height of the jump plus 1½ times your height.

Snarelure
Snarelure

Reminder to go to the other thread once this dies instead of making a new one and keeping both up at the same time for no reason

Emberfire
Emberfire

@SniperGod
The original combat tables had fighters literally reach the point where their attacks counted as "superhero" and "superhero+1/+2/+3". Items like a belt of giant's strength literally made them attack as if they were giants

The alternate combat system was a enormous nerf, but not an intentional one. Sadly, everyone missed the memo. Even gygax started characters at level 3

Flameblow
Flameblow

@SniperGod
Nicely put. I think this is also the reason why 4e with fighter who COULD lift mountains (figuratively) got so much hate.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Methnerd
your GM might allow you to make a Strength (Athletics) check to jump higher than you normally can
Seems I'm right

@Poker_Star
That would be a horrible solution because the difference in what a fighter and wizard can roll in athletics checks is minimal if not nonexistant if the wizard actually has strength for some reason.
The DM can set different DCs to each character, is it unfair? Maybe, but it's totally legal by RAW

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@Snarelure
not as long as it has a shadbase link in the OP

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@Snarelure
Fuck off, shad

King_Martha
King_Martha

@SniperWish
Arbitrarily using different DCs for skill checks depending on character undermines several of the supposed benefits of having a unified d20 mechanic. It works, yes, but the fact that it's necessary illustrates why the skill system in 5e sucks

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Fuzzy_Logic
@Raving_Cute
Just saw that, what the fuck is that doing in the op?
did you guys report it?

girlDog
girlDog

Unironically the solution to fixing 5E

farquit
farquit

@SniperWish
I don't think you know what RAW means. It doesn't mean "literally every possible house rule a DM might use". Sort of the opposite of that.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@SniperWish
The DM can set different DCs to each character, is it unfair? Maybe, but it's totally legal by RAW
People who argue by RAW against fairness disgusts me.

idontknow
idontknow

@Soft_member
I don't think the mods give a shit. Or maybe they've just taken the last couple days off.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Snarelure
Why? Someone will post a separate thread that doesn't have an advertisement link in it and more people will post there, just like they have for the last three days. Every thread with the advertising link has had less unique posters, less posts in general, poorer quality discussion, and some have even gotten deleted. There's literally no reason to post in that thread.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@girlDog
I liked the concept, but not the execution. A system like ToB needs to be in place starting from the Core, or it needs to attach on seamlessly. It felt really strange to have some martials using ToB while others weren't.

I think it also gets to the point that martial players want some level of simplicity as well. I had players who used ToB, but quite a few couldn't be bothered to read it. Their martials suffered because of it.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@w8t4u
Not having your maul be a giant spellbook on a stick bound tightly that counts as a great maul
not having a staff/giant wand that functions as a greataxe or maul
not being spellstronk

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@Soft_member
Every fucking time but they keep popping up.

hairygrape
hairygrape

Migr8
/tg/thread/57414496#p57414496
/tg/thread/57414496#p57414496
/tg/thread/57414496#p57414496

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@idontknow
Veeky Forums doesn't have a mod that comes here more than once a month, just a few lazy jannies, who have deleted other threads with the link. It's just something we'll have to deal with until the troll realizes that we've pretty effectively completely ignored him and he gets bored.

MPmaster
MPmaster

@hairygrape
Thanks.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@ZeroReborn
It is utterly fascinating seeing people deal with faggots like that, without necessity of authority.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@RumChicken

If evokers had to take mostly blast spells then they'd be awful.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

>>57414853
I feel kinda overwhelmed by all the stuff I need to keep in mind at any given time.
When in doubt, shout and roll die.

I don't wanna be constantly flipping through rules PDFs.
Eye-ball it, and look it up after.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@Stupidasole
One of my friends played a human Moon Druid with the Healer feat as her first character (she wanted to play a druid and I helped her build her character). She did pretty well as it, with her only stumbling block being learning about spell preparation and management. However, I think it was good that she had spells while being an archetype that didn't rely purely upon them. She learned how to use them, for the most part, without being a burden to the party because she was inexperienced at it. After all, she just had to turn into a bear or direwolf to contribute to combat, which is pretty simple.

Moon Druid is SAD and straightforward but still has a good bit of resource management which new players absolutely need so that they can actually learn about how the system works. Of course, this player had experience with video game RPGs and your mileage may vary with different new players.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@cum2soon
If they are a higher level than 1 going into death house, they stand a much better chance. I'm half tempted to say just send them right into barovia; or if you want to skip it, do the sunken citadel and have the fog rise after they take down the tree.

Death House is nice as it preps people for some of the unforgiving elements of Barovia. But yeah, what level are they?

likme
likme

@TreeEater
Zealot

Your god doesnt let you die because shes a bitch and loves watching you run in terror over and over again

You eventually learn to abuse this and become a kamikaze barbarian of death

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@Harmless_Venom
Wizard with wish.
Just wish for a clone every day and hide them all in dempilanes.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

It's another zealot 'I'm too scared to die despite being a barbarian so I traded a feature that could help save my team or buff my team for one to get me rezzed a lot' episode
How about you stop memebuilding and make a real barbarian and help the team?

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