In this thread we continue discuss what the world of Warhammer Fantasy might have looked like if the Storm of Chaos timeline had been continued instead of GW pushing the End Times button. How would things look almost eighty years later, in the year 2600 on the Imperial Calendar?
First thread:
suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com
Summaries/suggestions from thread 1:
THE EMPIRE
People liked doing some kind of reform storyline with Balthasar Gelt as a protagonist, opposed by conservative forces. Suggested snapshot for 2600:
>The Empire is at war with itself. Last year, the Electors of Norland and Ostland were accused of treason by the court of Emperor Luitpold III. Rather than submit, Norland and Ostland make common cause with Marienburg, perhaps hoping to emulate the merchant city's decades' long resistance to Imperial armies.
How did that happen?
>Karl Franz died.
>His son was elected Emperor Luitpold II and, under the guidance of Balthasar Gelt, ushered in a Gilded Age of reconstruction.
>Ostland and Norland, though ravaged by Chaos, were prime targets for Luitpold II's enlightened reforms and became models of meritocratic and even semi-democratic rule.
>After Luitpold II's passing, his son Karl Franz II started to feel the winds of reaction to reform and tried to steer a middle course. The venerable Gelt was retired from the Councils of State and the model provinces were left as "an example". During this time, Marienburg stirs shit in the Empire, particularly opposing the construction of Karl-Franzhafen as a trading port.
>Karl Franz II did negotiate the annexation of the Tilean city states into the Empire, so his rule did not pass in vain - but it passed on to his son, Karl Franz III. KF3 had grown up witnessing the destabilisation of the Empire by Marienburg and swiftly launched a punitive war. This swift effort turned into a series of long, drawn-out sieges.
>A brief cease-fire broke out after KF3 died of dysentery, but KF4's short reign ended in worse disaster. The young Emperor died, seemingly of poisoning.
>As soon as he had been elected the new Emperor Luitpold III pointed the finger at the Electors of the model provinces, seeking to make a new example of them.
Some talk about religious matters in Bretonnia.
>Does the Lady get revealed as an Elf God and if so What Do?
>Also a suggestion that Mymidianism fuses with the native Bretonnian heresy that Shallya & the Lady are one and the same to create a Trinitarian Cult that sees all three as aspects of the Goddess.
KISLEV
There's some support for the Bokhas (Kislev royal family) becoming Slavic Frost Vampires.
NORSCA
It was suggested that they should start coalescing into a proper state or states. This process would probably be lubricated with gallons of failsauce and a list of petty kings as long as your arm.
OTHER HUMANS
Some folks would like to develop Araby, Estalia, and Tilea into relevance. For Tilea this may involve being partly over-run by Skaven and annexed by the Empire.
DWARFS
Everyone wants them to do well but that's not really their thing. It's been suggested that Karak Kadrin (Slayer Keep) should fall to the Greenskins.
At least one person thinks that the Chaos Dwarf Empire should be destroyed and the Hobgoblins let off the leash.
ELVES
Nothing suggested for Wood Elves but that might be accurate. High Elves have a lot of wounds to lick. A Dark Elf troll truce was suggested:
>Give the Forces of Order a hundred year peace so that they can devote their attention to Chaos
>Give the humans a decade to calm down about Dark Elf raiders, then open up a trade enclave in Estalia
>Buy impoverished Old World humans as slaves rather than raiding
>"Bro if you think it's bad these guys are becoming our slaves maybe you should have a better society?"
>Send off the more vigorous Dark Elves as mercenaries
>2600
>"hey we're just another bunch of elves guys"
>22 years of truce left
ORCS & GOBLINS
It's been suggested that Grimgor & Skarsnik as the incarnations of Gork & Mork (or maybe Mork & Gork) as identified by Wurzzag should be in. Rather than the End Times path, they could fail to get along (just like Gork & Mork) and only manage to cooperate for one big campaign - possibly Karak Kadrin.
CHAOS
There was a suggestion that Archaon as a failed Ever-Chosen is in a pretty strange place. Would the gods desert him? How badly would the various Chaos warbands desert him? Does he become a hunted rogue because every Chaos Warrior wants to make a name by killing him?
SKAVEN
Many suggestions for whackiness but no consensus. Some ideas:
>They blow themselves up
>They over-run Miragliano
>They become an open and serious threat
These are not mutually exclusive
VAMPIRES
Not much consensus. The Thousand Thrones plotline looks like a prospect with vamps waking up and causing ruckus everywhere, especially among themselves. This almost certainly means another run for the Red Duke in Bretonnia and Mannfred doing Bad Things in Sylvania.
What would the inevitable conflict between the cult of Khaine and Slaanesh play out? Malekith probably would go neutral
What would be the reason for contributing to this?
Fun.
Honestly I think Archaon would be turned into stew meat for various chaos beasts at this point. In my opinion, Chaos should only just be coming together into a new conglomerate threat by this point.
One person I know thought that should get resolved by Malekith and Morathi fusing into an androgynous demigod. I'm... not so sure. At any rate, I'm guessing the resolution would involve a lot of sex and violence.
An interest in engaging with one's peers? Frustration at the End Times? Unfulfilled creative yearning? A desire to troll the EndHammer crowd by doing their thing without it devolving into shitposting? [Write-in]?
>Archaon would be turned into stew meat for various chaos beasts
Aww. Probably accurate though.
>Chaos should only just be coming together into a new conglomerate threat by this point.
One of my ideas that I didn't want to present as consensus from thread one was that the Armies of Chaos have serious issues in Norsca. The Norse are pretty hardcore Chaotics but there are references to other deities in their pantheon. In particular, there's a throwaway about their Manann (Meremdus) being a ghoulish drowned corpse god who can chain the souls of those who die on the waves and keep them from the Chaos Gods. Warhammer being Warhammer, this makes me think that Norsca could become a battleground between Chaotics and an ascendant Meremdus Cult reinforced by legions of drowned dead and sea-monsters.
I mean, some great hero uniting the region is fine too but I just wanted to put an alternative out there.
That sounds pretty cool, honestly. Especially since the Empire (both factions if we're still going with that) would probably hate it, but Gelt's Empire at least probably wouldn't be totally against the idea of having some free help.
Oh, well, I wasn't thinking that the Meremdus Cult would be particularly good neighbours. In my head they're kinda necromantic and still heavily into raiding and pillaging because Vikings gotta Vike.
>the Empire (both factions if we're still going with that)
I think two Empires is still on the cards. The proposal in splits things quite differently to some of the early discussion in thread one but it still has that reformers vs. conservatives vibe going on.
Ahh, so less enemy of my enemy is my friend, more enemy of my enemy is still a waterlogged horror who wants to eat me.
Seems like in this universe the split provinces are Nordland and Ostland. That definitely can work (especially nordland), though I still prefer the southeast provinces (or parts thereof) being the ones to split off.
>in this universe the split provinces are Nordland and Ostland.
Well, the snapshot starts with things flying apart so other provinces or city-states might break away or join the Marienburg-Nordland-Ostland league (which probably needs a name).
Not canon.
>Emperor Luitpold III
Should this guy be a bad, flawed, or just unlucky? History is going to remember the guy at the helm when a civil war begins as a bit rubbish but he might just be trapped by circumstances. And should KF4 be dead by Skavening or just garden variety food poisoning?
>>Karl Franz II did negotiate the annexation of the Tilean city states into the Empire, so his rule did not pass in vain - but it passed on to his son, Karl Franz III. KF3 had grown up witnessing the destabilisation of the Empire by Marienburg and swiftly launched a punitive war. This swift effort turned into a series of long, drawn-out sieges.
this is retarded, how would empire do this?
>Ogre Kingdoms
The tribes move out of the Mountains of Mourn en masse, selling their services to the highest bidders. This causes massive uproar in the civilised lands, as there isn't enough food to go around with the new inhabitants.
Ogres eventually start to scatter, the Maneater culture spreading like wildfire in the tribes, and it is now common to see a few ogres marching along with most armies willing to deal with the dimwitted brutes.
Golgfag Maneater emerges as the greatest Ogre in the world, overshadowing the now forgotten Hoardmaster of the Goldtooth tribe.
The Mountains of Mourn are now seen as the ancestral home of the ogres, and many warbands make pilgrimage to the old tribal holds, often bringing back beasts of war that have always accompanied the race in battle.
The Great Maw and The Fire Mouth are now seen as equals, and thus an increased in Firebellies is seen worldwide.
>how would empire do this?
That's a long quote with a lot of stuff in it, but I guess you're asking about the annexation of Tilea? They'd send troops to help the city states against Skaven aggression and negotiate a treaty. Lots of real world states have been non-contiguous.
Sweet. Ogres causing ruckus is always good.
Wait, end hammer is still a thing? Thought it had died around the same time the ninth shit shot itself in the foot.
Endhammer's not a thing but a guy who wasn't prepared to let it go popped in toward the end of the last thread and shot it in the foot for the tenth time.