Welcome to /osrg/, the Old School Revival General! Here we discuss editions of Dungeons and Dragons from the TSR era, as well as retroclones of those editions and other games and material compatible with them.
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What influences does your OSR game have from newer editions of D&D (or alternatively, non-D&D games)?
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So, I'm working on a module that I quite like the direction of, but I've run into an issue: specifically, with systems. I've avoided pinning mechanics down too far beyond a ballpark because I don't know what *works* for it.
>LotFP seems fairly solid rules-wise and I've seen plenty of LotFP stuff adapted to other systems without an issue. But it's very tied to the "grindhouse metal edginess" aesthetic that I don't favor, it'd be supporting Raggi's work, and from what I've read of it some parts really don't translate over
>"Generically compatible" leaves out a ton of mechanical detail in places where GMs have to struggle to fill in the gaps (speaking from the experience of myself and others)
>I run existing OSR stuff via hacked 5e, so I'm most familiar with it, but that's *definitely* not in the OSR stable and I don't expect other people to use my hack
Any pointers? I'm doing fine on narrative (besides providing a hook to get players in, but I haven't seen a good hook even in *professional* adventures), it's just mechanics that leave me thinking.
Most people in OSR are into the DIY aspect of it, as long as it's broadly compatible with things people will hack things to make them fit to whatever they're actually running. Just use one of the accepted standards like S&W or LL and let the people at their tables do the hard work.
What mechanics do you need to refer to? HD, #atks, damage, that's easy. Armor you can probably say "as chain" or whatever, right? Same for movement: if it's 120' or 12" or "as human" doesn't really matter to most people. Saving throws don't need to be specified IMO, most referees can judge whether something is magic or a poison or paralysis.
Are there any more specific stuff you need to include?
Just go mostly system-less. It's much harder to do but you can get away with it. VotE has stats that are generic guidelines.
One option I've used (for a social module):
In Combat: no challenge at all for a PC.
To Deceive: moderate challenge for a PC.
Armor: none. Possibly even negative armour.
Hit Dice: 0 (1 HP)
Move: Normal
Morale: 5
Damage: 1 d3, or 1 d6 if they have an actual weapon.
Or:
HD: 0 (1 HP)
Appearance: mostly invisible, but pops in and out of vision. Looks like a ball of mist with a half-formed face.
Wants: to touch things, to knock things over, to undo knots
Armour: as leather
Move: 2x normal
Morale: 6 (will sulk and return later)
Damage: 1d4, ignores armour
Mechanics are one of the least important part of adventure design in my opinion. Get the core ideas down and GMs can sort out mechanics on the fly (for the most part).
give stats in whatever system you're using to playtest it, and assume that a competent GM can translate across from one system to the other.
Pocketmod sheets are cute as hell.
>Just go mostly system-less.
I personally wouldn't buy a product that doesn't even bother to tell me the HD of the things.
All right. I kinda figured the same, so I'll see what I can do on that front.
I suppose that's about it, issues come in more with skill usage but I suppose that's easy enough to work around with "GM makes a logical assumption by circumstance". It's my first time diving into actually writing material *for other people* and not just me, so I'm just concerned about meeting usability standards so to speak.
Does this principle address things like wandering monsters? I think OSR stuff often includes more randomness on the GM's 'world control' end than a lot of other stuff.
That's fair. Its why I included it in mine (even if I accidentally picked 2 examples with 0HD)
But why, though?
>LotFP
I think the no-art rules PDF is free somewhere. And you don't really want the art anyway. But the rules honestly aren't especially edgy, it's just the modules. Though if you're publishing for it I can see not wanting to get lumped in with them.
>Generically compatible
Pretty much anything OSR has essentially the same stats. Are you planning on publishing it? RPGdrivenow has a generic OSR system label.
Honestly just have the armour "as chain" or whatnot, and it'll be easy enough to figure out. Saves "as F7" or whatever. Or even skip them and let people use their HD. Even if you did an AC number people can usually figure it out.
>OSR stuff via hacked 5e
don't
For what its worth, I'd just write a short explanation of how you converted stuff to 5e, provide a state block example and then go from there.
Failing that HD, armour 'as X', # of attacks, damage 'as Y' and 'speed as Z' where xyz are standardized should be fine.
Sure it does. That's the referee's inability or unwillingness to pick on their own.
Pick a ruleset and stick with it. Include notes in the appendix for other sets if you want.
Fuck off, Skerpshit
>Are you planning on publishing it?
Yeah, that's my intention. Hence the association concern.
>don't
I wouldn't if I could get my players to go for anything more esoteric.
>I wouldn't if I could get my players to go for anything more esoteric.
Just lie to them, or talk to them like reasonable adults about concerns and design goals, or recruit normies who know nothing.
OSRIC or LL. Don't explicitly mention which, just write "OSR compatible." It'll be close enough that anyone can use it.
I've got two of the three who are willing to try once our current campaign (ie hacked 5e) is done with. Third is a harder sell, but I'm loath to exclude them. We'll see how things go, though. Can't even start playtesting till I've got things a little more coherently constructed and figure out how the *hell* to get people to actually buy into trekking that far underground.
Reminder that the OSR is about using old tools to do new things, not replicate old things.
>and figure out how the *hell* to get people to actually buy into trekking that far underground.
Same problem, in some ways. I've found:
-emphasizing that loot is /amazing/ underground, but the transit up and down is tricky, so plan to be in the deeps for weeks or months without seeing thesun
-straight up "you fell down a hole and you can't get out"
But again, really focus on design over specific mechanical compatibility. You can always adjust HD and damage later. Rewriting an entire portion from scratch because it turns out to be un-fun and annoying is not easy.
it's your game, you'll run what you want.
Remember, players are everywhere; GM's (particularly GMs with an actual vision for what they want to run - IE the good type) are not. If they don't like it, they can run their own games, and you can replace them.
>Reminder that the OSR is about using old tools to do new things, not replicate old things.
Is that why the OSR exploded only when 4e came out and grogs were assmad about Fake D&D?
I'm not even going to give a (You) to that shit.
Things done changed
What bipedal creature to replace carnivorous apes with in a non-tropical environment?
4E is cool and good, 5E is the false prophet.
3.x is the crazy party uncle that never grew up but mixes some awesome cocktails still. Pathfinder pretend to be the crazy party uncle but is actually the creepy uncle.
'you went in and now you can't get out again - at least not the way you came' is a great way to start a campaign.
Kick things off in medias res. You are in the veins/megadungeon/whatever; it is up to you to explain why (or just leave it in the background unexplored) but you don't get to play a PC who's not there.
I've even done this in games with existing PCs. Explain to them 'I have this idea for an adventure, getting to the hook is boring, so Imma just skip over the dull bits and put you into the adventure right away, is this cool?' and 99% of the time* players will trust you to let you cutscene them in.
*the remaining 1% of the time, players have been traumatised by shit GMs in the past and react fearfully to anything that might take away their control. These players have flawed expectations of play, and you need to gently guide them into a more healthy understanding of your GMing.
Those two things have little or nothing to do with each other. 3aboos didn't go to OSR, they went to Pathfinder.
OSR largely attracted people fed up with the 3e/4e edition wars horseshit, who said "a pox on both their houses."
And 5E was a cynical attempt at drawing the Pathfinder and OSR player bases back into the fold while pretending 4E never happened.
Boar headed warthogmen.
Polar Bear/Grizzley hybrids due to climate shifting.
Hobo cannibals.
giant killer birds.
Ok, so Made in Abyss. Started watching, got 5 episodes in. Can someone explain why everyone is obsessed with the robot kid's penis? EVERYONE! Is this... like a genre thing? Some sort of horrible not-quite-porn-but-close thing, like Bond films? Because that shit is uncomfortable and weird. I'm worried about the target audience, user, I really am.
>u are in the veins/megadungeon/whatever; it is up to you to explain why (or just leave it in the background unexplored) but you don't get to play a PC who's not there.
I like this method to; I use it a lot. If you can't explain why you don't take this opporunity, you aren't a starting PC.
Might want to make a d100 table just to help people who are stuck or lazy, and provide replacement PCs.
...
Bears aren't bipedal ya fuckin nozzle
>Cassowaries (/ˈkæsəwɛəri/), genus Casuarius, are ratites that are native to the tropical forests
You had one job
carnivorous kangaroos
they are when they paint yer fence ya hosser
>You had one job
Sorry, read "tropical" for "non-tropical".
Boys, boys, simmer down there.
honestly? It's just japan being japan, I think. Anime is a 'pulp' medium, and a lot of the good stuff is going to have flaws. For MiA, this is it's big flaw.
No media is perfect. Sometimes, though, the good bits are still worth taking inspiration from.
Yetis in polar environments, cannibalistic cavemen in mountains, werewolves in forests.
One option is to sell it as a .zip file with multiple PDFs, each one using stats for a different system (probably just one generic OSR [e.g. Legend Lord], one 5E, and then maybe LotFP?)
Another option is to give stats for a specific system and then, in parenthesis, give brief context: AC 7 (leather); MV 12 (unencumbered man); D 1d8 (standard); ML 12 (fearless); AL C (Chaotic Evil)
The manga's worse, I assume, since you've only mentioned one character there.
The actual no joke reason is that the author is a pedophile.
Apropos of nothing, pinterest.cl
Ah.
>.cl
wena
Hey, if you're taking suggestions...
• The Voynich Hotel
• Crystal Dragon
• Kusuriya no Hitorigoto
• Hinamatsuri
• Medaka Box
What are some nice ways for weather to affect PCs mechanically? AKA how to get them to go seek shelter in the cave because it's raining cats and dogs out there
If it makes you feel any better, the manga has better pacing.
1d6 damage per hour, but taking them no further than half health?
Seems a bit too rough. Spending a couple hours out in the rain shouldn't fuck you up that badly imho
I talked about this concept before, and there are some characters, like elves, who would never go into the Veins.
Of course, if they knew for a fact that there are coins down there that could bribe the gods themselves (occultum), anyone daring enough would go, but that alone sounds like a wild and fantastical fairy tale even to people in a fantasy RPG world.
They would need to know these coins are down there, and know that it's possible to get them. They would need to see an occultum coin on the surface world, and see the flash of greed in the eyes of a god when presented it. That would get them falling over themselves to go spelunking down farther than anyone has before.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
No damage from the weather, but no healing until you find somewhere nice to rest.
I'm running a one shot in labyrinth lord for some OSR beginners later today. What module should I run them trough
Make it so getting soaked takes up an inventory spot. They move slower and can't carry as much until they dry out by a fire. It's a useful way to do environment effects like being tired or stung by bees or whatever without changing health or complex subsystems.
That sounds like a great plot, and it's pretty much how I convinced my players to go back. They presented a scrap of occultum to the Dean of the Elementalist Wizard College. He fell over himself to call for the Archchancellor. Everyone got very excited and gave the PCs a big sack of gold to go away and find more.
Rumours are going to spread.
Plus, elves are assholes. If someone says that no one can survive in the veins they'll just go, "Well, perhaps no /human/..."
B4 The Lost City
Being out in the rain with your gear and no cover should probably make you encumbered at least. Wet stuff is uncomfortable and weighs a lot. Though I probably wouldn't go as far as take armor rusting into account.
This module was designed for exactly your situation: coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca
It's not quite a one-shot but the first level does a decent job.
Tomb of Horrors if it's a real one-shot.
Caverns of Thracia if you're trying to sucker them in for more.
Tower of the Stargazer if you're new too.
You forgot to mention it's by the bestselling author of Kidnap the Archpriest!
A petty but no less powerful god is speaking directly to a group of worshipers.
"How dare you insult my divine presence by thinking you can win my favor with some petty material weal-... is that occultum? SPEAK YOUR PRICE IMMEDIATELY AND I SHALL DO WHATEVER IS IN MY POWER!!!"
Depending on what the AElf-Adal have in their cities, something there could be invaluable to a surface elf.
Does the Wizard want his precious spellbook to get wet? Unthinkable!
Huh, I guess I can do that now?
Feels weird.
Seconding this system. Inventory slot damage is great.
Getting lost in the rain is really easy if you're not traveling on a clear road. Even then, if the rain is heavy enough, you could accidentally take a wrong turn or cut across a field.
Anything like N1 (lvl 1 stuff with village interaction) that's not N1? Trying to find more lvl 1 shit to stock with but I've heard KotB is kinda rubbish.
Ya know, a list of "Veins Lures" is a pretty decent idea...
>I've heard KotB is kinda rubbish
What filthy liar told you that?
But seriously, check out T1 - Village of Hommlet, it's great.
>using N1
>not using N2
[Humor]
Another thread another Skerples shilling
I tease because I love
>another Skerples
How many are there now?
>designed for exactly your situation
>except its not really
dood
...
Might combine these two. Not deadly, but one hell of an inconvenience. Might add a -1 to all rolls for each day spent in the rain if they prove to be stubborn.
One too many
>Tower of the Stargazer if you're new too.
How well does LoTFP transfer into Labyrinth Lord? I don't like LoTFP too much as a system
They're both B/X so...
Because of the Fighter change, LotFP modules tend to use a lot more weak enemies than strong. Won't matter in a level 1 module though.
>gypsy camp
>le randumb crazy dwarf
Looks lame
>The Apocalypse is going to happen. You know this, and nearly everyone in power knows this. The chain of events in motion now, prophesied and confirmed by every god in the world's pantheon, are irreversible... but if this chain of events could be "ended", the Apocalypse could be stopped. There is a creature in the Veins of the Earth who can bring the end to literally anything and anyone, even philosophical concepts. Seek the Antiphoenix in the darkest depths, and convince him to End the End of the World.
Heatwave
>Fatigue doubled, greater chance of fire in dry grass or woods if dry. (Applies only in summer season.)
Rain
>Three turns of hard rain brings mud, reducing movement by 1/2.
For hexcrawl purposes, consider hard rain giving +1 to the chance to become lost and increasing the movement cost of terrain.
If the Antiphoenix is dead, would people still know about it?
In this particular plot point, the Antiphoenix is not dead. Yet. Therefore it still exists in somebody's memory.
>Tomb of Horrors if it's a real one-shot.
That's throwing them into the deep end, innit? Not just because it's meant for experienced players, but because the 14th-level magic-user who's one of the more common suggested characters not only has a ton of spell slots but also has no suggested spells (those are left to the player's discretion.)
At least G1 gives a spell list for the pregens to use.
>Trying to find more lvl 1 shit to stock with but I've heard KotB is kinda rubbish.
B1 is great, though?
A huge rock is going to smash into the earth. The Wizards spotted it and fucked off to other realities, pocket dimensions, etc. A few gods turned up to warn their followers or hoover them up to heaven.
But for everyone else, the Veins are likely to be the only safe place. You are the early expedition, the scouts. Build a kingdom in the Veins.
>The Trilobite Knights anticipated this. This rock is not a chance occurrence, in fact the very same entities who tried to kill the world in the exact same way millions of years ago are attempting to do so once again. They are more prepared this time.
Funny enough, this is actually what my () first draft revolved around and might well be what I *actually* write.
Good idea.
I hope the rest of those are aw good as Voynich Hotel, because Voynich Hotel was amazing.
Tone down the numbers and start people around level 5? Make everyone fighting-men?
Hinamatsuri is close, Medaka Box is hard to compare. I can safely say the other two aren't as good. They're still good though.
>Tone down the numbers
What numbers? The Tomb of Horrors has, like three monsters or something along those lines. It's almost entirely traps that are hard to tone down on account of, well, instant death and stuff.
It's also VERY much about player skill, and thus pretty much the worst possible module to toss beginners into. It's a puzzle designed to stump actual literal professional D&D players.
Making everyone Fighters just fucks up everything inside it that requires you to have spells, or is at least somewhat simpler if you DO have spells. Choosing what spells you prepare in advance is part of the puzzle, here. And the puzzle is designed to fuck over as many people as possible, because it's a tournament dungeon and you don't actually want people to beat it.
I mean, fuck, just flip over to Acererak and imagine for a moment that nobody has spells.
>It's a puzzle designed to stump actual literal professional D&D players.
All but one trap is blatant in the handouts. After the first hour you'll barely kill anyone.
>I mean, fuck, just flip over to Acererak and imagine for a moment that nobody has spells.
Easiest part of the dungeon. You bypass that trap by ignoring it.
You know you can just ask the mods to IP ban him, right? It would save all this anger over his content.
What's great about it apart from nostalgia?
I think he's the new janitor
>Is that why the OSR exploded only when 4e came out and grogs were assmad about Fake D&D?
Coincidental/inaccurate. Most AD&D types liked 4E, at least better than 3E.
He'd have to break the rules first. Unlike the guy who announced "I reported him" Skerples isn't breaking the rules.
