/STG/ - Star Trek General

You're right. This episode was so close to being amazing, but instead it just kind of floundered.

Oh, like TOS wouldn't have done something similar if it had only had the budget. Except maybe with an Elvis song.

>A LITTLE LESS CONVERSATION A LITTLE MORE ACTION PLEASE
>"...is that classical music?
>ALL THIS AGGRAVATION AIN'T SATISFACTIONIN' ME
>"Yes, doctor, I believe it is."
>A LITTLE MORE BITE A LITTLE LESS BARK, A LITTLE MORE FIRE AND A LITTLE LESS SPARK
>"Sir, we've just received the destruct signal from the Franklin!"
>"Broadcast it on all channels!"
>SHUT YOUR MOUTH AND OPEN HEART AND BABY SATISFY ME! SATISFY ME!

Okay, I like ENT and I get nostalgia/imprinting. But
VOY > DS9? I don't get it.

In-universe in the sense that the science behind it doesn't make a lick of sense, or out-of-universe in the sense that somehow they turned the worst part of the trailer into the best part of the movie?

I went over it in the last thread, but basically it boils down to the fact that I'd rather watch something that's bad but engaging, than something that's good but boring, and I find DS9 boring even if it's technically a better show. For the same reason, I freely acknowledge that in a technical sense Star Trek V is the worse Star Trek movie, but I'll watch it if I see it's on TV; but conversely I won't do the same with The Motion Picture or Insurrection, because even if they properly speaking have better effects, acting, or "kino" or whatever, they're boring.

And for the record one of my favorite movies is 12 Angry Men, so it's not like I'm the sort of person who needs an explosion or a fart joke every five minutes.

The metaphor I used was that everyone secretly wants to watch a train crash, but no one wants to see a train with a broken engine that just won't move.

Honestly I don't think it would've ever have been amazing without basically redoing the script from scratch, but just a couple of lines would've kept it from being a disaster. It's one of the worst offenders of TNG's garbage 7th season where it's obvious everyone still on the show didn't give a fuck because everyone important was working on DS9, Generations and/or Voyager.

HRRRRNGH

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>or out-of-universe in the sense that somehow they turned the worst part of the trailer into the best part of the movie?
This one.

>And for the record one of my favorite movies is 12 Angry Men
Great movie, but my love of science fiction means that Forbidden Planet edges it out for my favorite '50s flick.

>I find DS9 boring even if it's technically a better show
I felt like it was kind of boring and soap opera-y early on, but it picked up decently as time went by. Despite having a couple of really good characters though, a lot of them were rather meh, and the interpersonal dynamics never really sizzled the way they did in TOS and TNG. Back in the old days, I appreciated DS9's more arc-y nature, because arcs were much rarer back then (though DS9's arcs were still a pale shadow of B5's), but now that that is no longer a problem, I will admit that my opinion of the show has diminished. Sisko is probably my least favorite captain too, depending on how much you blame Janeway for inconsistent writing. But with all of this said, Voyager is just too schlocky to be a serious rival to DS9. In my opinion at least. I did have a friend who had never seen much Star Trek at all who recently went through and watched all the series, and his initial reaction (the only reaction I've gotten from him) was that Voyager was better than DS9 for pretty much the same reason you gave. It's hard for me to know how much my opinion might be different if I experienced the shows in the context of today rather than back then.

>It felt fresh enough, and while I'll freely admit that the first two seasons are kind of rough to get through, the good outweighed the bad
Enterprise did get much better, but I really think they failed on the casting. I think Phlox is the only one I wouldn't randomly replace with another actor (a random other choice for those particular characters, that is -- not like Martin Lawrence becomes T'Pol or some shit).

Anyway, for me:
TOS = TNG > other stuff (DS9 = ENT > VOY, I guess)

I wouldn't even put JJ Trek or STD on the continuum.

>Anyway, for me:
If we're doing rankings, here's mine while we're on the topic:
TOS>DS9=TNG>VOY>TAS>ENT>TSD. JJTrek is not ranked here due to not having a show, just movies, and thus being ranked with them.

TNG>DS9>TOS>ENT>TAS>VOY>OPH>STD

OPH?

Ophion

Oh. Is it that bad to be rated below VOY? Haven't watched any of it yet, but it was on my to-watch list.

Lol no I just put it in there as a joke. That's how bad STD is

Alright Anons, I'm back at work and I don't want to deal with my co worker. Time for more planning for the campaign.

For the moment, the crew is going to gather on board the Springfield-class light Cruiser the USS Cambeltown NCC-57415. By taking off the secondary hull, she has a look of a modern-ish NX class.

I haven't gotten into the ship rules much, but she will be a size 4, max cruise of warp 6 (to start) and will be working along the Cardassian DMZ doing patrols and finishing out minor survey work that doesn't require a dedicated science ship. Putting them in this area of space puts them in story range of the Spoonheads, Tholians, Breen, Bajor, and at least some minor exploration bits.

Only the gal who doesn't want to wear a miniskirt has decided on what she wants to play, which is a mixed race engineer. Her original request was to be half Kilngon/ half Cardie, which broke my brain thinking about so I'm trying to figure out how to do that stats/ traits wise and told her to plan to pick one race and make the other half human.

For now, though, I'll to try to get the picture of that sweet Klingon/ Cardie couple out of my head and ask for some brain power on what they can find while exploring. So far:

>A duplicate of the ship where their doubles all act not quite right: the emotions are off, and if they pay close attention, they don't moe right... or even breathe.
>A normal M class planet with a truly absurd number of moons, some of which don't appear to have come from the same planetary formation. Due to gravo-magnitic interference, they will have to take a shuttle to the surface.
>A small moon has developed an ecosystem while orbiting a brown dwarf, without much visible light, all of the local species feed of the infrared emissions of the dwarf. NVGs for everyone and something lurking in the dark.
>A fungus has become all the rage as a snack/ recreational drug at the nearest starbase. Starfleet is getting concerned as reports become garbled and strange

Martin Lawrence as T'Pol and Will Smith as Trip. I'd fucking watch that decon scene.

There's a brief passage in the core book that deals with hybrids. It seems pretty straight forward. If you don't know how to reconcile it in the lore, you could use the fact that some Cardassians were exiled.

I like the fungus and night planet stories. The others feel very trek but need some twist.

It could be something like the Half-Klingon Half-Romulan chick from TNG. Parents were a POW captured during the Betreka Nebula Incident and their captor.

Thanks! Because I'm at work I can't just pop open the book and dig in like I want to, so I'll hunt that down probably tomorrow or Monday when I have time.

So for the Ship double, I was going with an idea of an energy being in a nebula attempting to communicate or a holo-ship gone haywire but I just thought of something else.
>Apparently automated medical ship adrift in a nebula. No sign of any crew, until they enter sickbay. Ship is a testbed for EMH ver 0.5. None of the personal interaction or ethical subroutines are working and the entire ship is covered in holoemitters. They enter a room, the lights flicker, and for an instant they are surrounded by a dozen staring, emotionless Robert Picardos who disappear in the next flicker of lights. Injured crew are dragged off for some civil war style surgery.

Many Starfleet Officers have parents from different species. To
create characters of mixed-heritage, choose two species, one of
which will be the primary species. The character is treated as a
member of the primary species for attribute bonuses; most mixedheritage
characters take more after one parent than another. The
character gains the species Traits of both parent species, and may
select Talents from both parent species.

Page 102 Reporting for Duty

I would say TOS would have used Rolling Stones or even Beatles as they where big thing during that time. Imagine Beyond scene but with Jagger going I CAN'T GET NO SATISFACTION, but that Elvis song is good choice aswell.

That would have been fucking hilarious, instead of yet another pointless nudge at JJ Abrams' enjoyment of the Beastie Boys.

Beyond only used Sabotage because they still had the rights from the first JJ Trek.

So, I can’t really tell, but it seems like Starfleet has no fraternization rules between it’s officers?

Absolutely zero. They even sent a married couple on a dangerous mission together.

None at all basically.
Starfleet, while using military ranks for sake of convienence and serving as the defensive military of UFP, is not a military organization and thus there’s not fraternization regulations in place there. The rule basically seems to be discreet and polite and respectful and to not let it affect your duties any more then any other relationship would at your job, which is fairly sensible.

Keiko and O’Brien were both with Starfleet, as were Troi and Riker for example.

So, how do they avoid potential bias based on romantic entanglements then?

By being all-around swell people.

It should be noted that the theory that soldiers being influenced by romantic entanglements with their subordinates is kind of mostly just that; a theory. In real life there’s just not enough women serving in the military to really tell if that’s a problem in crisis situations, especially since women were only legally allowed to be in direct combat roles precisely a year ago in the US military so there’s not really much in the way of recorded evidence at all.
The only real evidence that anyone has is taken from examples in the Israeli Defense Force (which does have women in some direct combat roles) where women who were injured in fights tended to make the men angry or braver. This mostly just happened with rank and file guys too, officers stayed functional doing officer stuff and so again our reference pool is extremely limited.
Personal note; I served for awhile and one dude’s relationship issues fucked up his ability to properly do his job until he was lectured on the subject despite the source of said relationship issues being on the other side of the planet, so distance clearly is zero help and proximity really doesn’t change much.

Plus what says; Starfleet officers are usually fairly well-adjusted, which makes sense considering the truly ridiculous range of situations they train for and are expected to encounter. We’re talking about people who regularly encounter what we would call gods and their reaction is usually something along the lines of;
>”Met alien space-god again today, that’s number 12 this year.”

>We’re talking about people who regularly encounter what we would call gods and their reaction is usually something along the lines of; “Met alien space-god again today, that’s number 12 this year.”
So, there’s instructions for that in Starfleet Acadmy’s standard training operations right? There’s gotta be, there is not a crew of Starfleet ever shown that hasn’t run into at least ONE omnipotent/semi-omnipotent being during the course of their duties and most have run into MORE then one.

I feel like the people taking Theology 101 now and at SF academy are going to have VASTLY different experiences.

The Federation’s standard MO seems to be to not precisely refute that they are deities (since a deity is really technically just anyone or anything worshipped by another individual), but otherwise treat them as exceptionally advanced alien species.

Need an idea for a solid holodeck-themed episode for my crew.

Catch Jack the Ripper.

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First Officer is caught going to pound town on a hologram of another crew member by the alien diplomats.Hilarity ensues when they want to join in.

>An ensign playing around with "The Kirk Files: A Holodeck Adventure" has accidentally unleashed both Landru and M5, who have taken over different parts of the ship and are fighting for dominance.

>Someone sneezed on a replicator and now the holodeck safeties are off. The PC's were playing a Starwars roleplaying game at the time and now they're trapped and must use Starfleet knowhow and Federation diplomacy to stop the Deathstar and end the program.

>An ensign has been using the holodeck to write a holonovel. Unfortunately his characters have become sapient and demand death rather than return to the black void of storage. Starfleet is against assisted suicide so they're stuck. They've also learned to interfere in other holodeck programs and show up on viewscreens and are generally annoying.

>Security has created a training sim involving a Borg invasion. The simulated borg, however, were designed too well and have assimilated two crewmen and the entire holodeck system. Removing assimilated crew from the holodeck will remove the nanites and implants but will leave deathly gaping holes where the had been assimilating their flesh and bones and turning it into more implants.

>HoloBorg use hard light to assimilate crew.
>Now the crew have to stay on the holodeck to survive, assimilated in a box.

Revenge on Picard for the tommy gun?

Creepy as fuck considering they're slowly turning you into hard light.

This.. is also me :)

A sentinent holodeck program (a la Moriarty) tinkers with holodeck settings.

The result is that everyone who thinks they have left the holodeck actually just enters a new simulation that is an excact copy of their ship, but in the complete control of the rogue program .The entity calls itself "Q"

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>Someone sneezed on a replicator and now the holodeck safeties are off. The PC's were playing a Starwars roleplaying game at the time and now they're trapped and must use Starfleet knowhow and Federation diplomacy to stop the Deathstar and end the program.

I might use this one just due how crazy the multiple levels of reference are; a bunch of folks playing a Star Trek RPG referencing a stock Star Trek plot while playing as bunch of guys playing a Star Wars RPG.

The holodeck is being used for training. The holodeck constructs a random scenario for the officers to solve/overcome.
The holodeck construct a scenario that then actually happens (or something extremely close to it), this happens again. The holodeck construct a third scenario that is incredibly dire, everyone starts losing their shit thinking it's going to come true

It turns out the "Real" scenarios were also part of the simulation and this is basically the new Kobyashi Maru test to see how the crew deals with a no-win in the wild

So a twist on the Moriarty Inception, neat.

Well, I suppose it depends on how it acts. Starfleet policy with Q, for example, is "try your best to ignore it." Starfleet acknowledges that there is absolutely nothing that they can do to a Q, but at least the Q don't seem to be actively hostile, and the one Q individual they've interacted with the most actually seems to like humans in his own strange way.

Then there's the Douwd, where Starfleet policy is probably "back away slowly and be very nice and consoling".

>Keiko and O’Brien were both with Starfleet
Keiko was a civilian botanist working on the Enterprise.

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They are dudes playing udes who are playing another dudes. Just hope nobody goes full retard.

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>Need an idea for a solid holodeck-themed episode for my crew.

Finally realizing that it's an active danger to their physical and mental well-being, the entire crew pulls extra shifts ripping the fucking holodeck systems out of the ship and transporting it into space where it's vaporized by a full spread of photon torpedoes.

The few crew who cannot handle "loss" of their holo fleshlights are quickly reassigned.

>being this edgy

>>being this much of a faggot defending a gimmick meant to provide easy script ideas to lazy writers.

>getting this mad over pretend vr
Calm your shit son

Every once in a while somebody mumbles something about improper relationships, especially between senior officers, but that shit isn't even remotely enforced.

I would have loved to see that episode.

>We thought we left the holodeck but we're actually still on it!
Been done loads of times. What about the opposite?

>Crew discovers a Tal Shiar base
>Sends a tiny cloaked drone to explore it
>The drones sensor data is used to create a holoprogram that allows the crew to explore the base as if they were actually there
>Turns out they actually are there, Tal Shiar transported them over, and are letting them wander around assuming they're still in the safety of their ship while they discuss classified Starfleet intelligence

>Tal Shiar agents barely holding their shit together while pretending to be holodeck npcs

and then it turns out there was no Tal Shiar base to begin with, and it was all the creation of a lonely ayylmao kid.

>>Tal Shiar agents barely holding their shit together while pretending to be holodeck npcs

>>I still can't believe this, T'Moe.
>>What do you mean, T'Shemp?
>>The humans are so used to these holodecks on their ships that they can't differentiate between VR and reality. How can they be that fucking stupid?
>>Beats me, but it gets worse.
>>How?
>>They deploy with their kids aboard.
>>Get the fuck out of here.
>>It's true. You can't make up something that fucking retarded.
>>So every time Q screws with them or the Borg attack or the Particle of the Week causes a warp core breach...
>>... their children die with them.
>>Fuck... and they call us evil!

side-effect of being a military in name only.
I'd personally consider it a terrible idea, but technically just about all Federation ships are Civilian first and Military second.

>side-effect of being a military in name only.

Yup, that's why families spend the winter at the Amundsen-Scott South Pole Station. Wait a minute...

do we have a pdf of the beta quadrant book?

There's a difference between a polar expedition (which is indeed civilian, but considered very dangerous), and a Federation ship on a mission primarily about exploration and diplomacy, with the hazards being irregular things.

It's in Nergal's Vola room. You can get the link in the PDF Share Thread.

That’s just the Galaxy-class actually.
Most later writers have dramatically scaled down the “civilians and families on board” aspect specifically because it made no sense endangering so many people so freakin’ often.
Picard in the first TNG episode even admits to Riker that he’s completely unused to working with families and kids onboard and has no idea how to act around them.

That he didn't want them on his ship was supposed to be seen as a flaw. TNG Season 1 was very dumb.

Yeah, see .
Every other ship you see in the entire franchise is largely without huge civilian population of 500+ people on top of it’s 500+crew, including the Sovereign-class ships that are the replacement/upgrade for the Galaxy-class the Enterprise-D belongs to.
Later show writers seem to have decided that the “floating city” idea was largely abandoned by Starfleet, probably after multiple incidents of exactly what you have pointed out, like that ep where Picard and Riker agree to self-destruct the entire ship just to make a moral point to an alien intelligence playing games with them.

If they'd actually been on a five year mission of deep space explanation, maybe it would have worked better.

This is true, but he outright says he’s not used to them being onboard at ALL, and given that all of the newer ships made after lack a massive civilian population entirely I think we can safely say that Starfleet went all “yeah, maybe not such a hot idea after all and we shouldn’t build things just because we can pull it off...”

Then again, a lot of characters admit that Starfleet’s Admirality had gotten lazy and overconfident before the Borg invaded, so maybe the flaws of the Galaxy-class design could later be explained as a symptom of carelessness on their part due to having defeated every major existing foe or been at peace with the others for so long.

Technically the D was on a mission that went on like....six years I think before it went down in Generations. They were just way faster then the 23rd century ships at Warp 9 so they could go back and forth a lot more I suppose.

>Technically the D was on a mission that went on like....six years I think before it went down in Generations
The Ent-D was launched in 2363 and was destroyed in 2371. It had an 8-year career.

The idea behind the Ent-D was that saucer separation would be more commonplace. The drive section would leave the saucer behind on a regular basis whenever it needed to respond to a crisis, so there would be no issue with kids dying. This was probably abandoned because the drive section looks like shit by itself, and because the separation and recombining sequences would've taken up too much time and budget if done regularly.

>Starfleet’s Admirality had gotten lazy and overconfident

There's being lazy and overconfident and then there's being fucking retarded. There is NO in-setting rationale to "explain" it beyond being Moties.

Whomever came up with the "Bring the wife & kids along idea" be it Roddenberry or a writer was fucking retarded and trying to make the idea work is even more retarded.

I always assumed bringing the wife and kids along was based on Oregon Trail.

The Galaxy class, both in universe and out of universe, was basically supposed to be "Voyager except we planned it" where ships would go on years long, maybe even decades long, deep space exploration missions without going back to Federation space. This is why so much emphasis was placed on the saucer separation in the pilot, not just to show off a fancy cool ability but also to establish that the Enterprise could and was designed to go into risky situations without risking the civilian population. This obviously failed for real-life reasons.

And then the D went on to spend 7 years acting as a taxi and a cargo ship.

It's worth noting that the Ent-D was the Federation Flagship and so its role was always going to be different than the stated goal of the class itself. This was not clearly stated by the show but makes logical sense. The Ent-D was a Galaxy not because the Galaxy was best suited to the D's mission but because the Galaxy was the biggest and best piece of Fed tech available and thus flew the flag nicely.

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I always liked the all-blue/green Excelsior look, feels more high-energy/advanced
Pity the impulse exhausts weren't blue-white or blue-purple (violet) too...
The ambassador, Galaxy, and Sovereign made the red bussards and impulse work, but I kinda wish starfleet kept with the "no-red" TMP aesthetic, leve green and red to the klinks...

I think it was done to help differentiate between impulse thrust and warp drive. But on a purely aesthetic level, I agree.

Seeing as the original was strongly based off of the old TV show “Wagon Train”, there’s likely some truth to that.

Flagships are usually just there to look and be impressive; a literal flag-waving ship.

>This obviously failed for real-life reasons.
I feel like a lot of conceptual stuff for a lot of Trek shows have this problem, with the Saucer separation thing just being notable for us being shown that it could be done and thus seeming more incongruous when they suddenly stop using it later on in the series.

A lot of that is due to brain-dead execs killing off good ideas because "that's not what TOS did"

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A lot of the shit was done for budget reasons; VFX were expensive shit back in the day....

Agreed.

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That image is mildly misleading, considering TNG had unfortunate episodes like;
>”Troi gets space-impregnated against her will in her sleep and gives birth to an alien son and the crew has a bunch of moral and philosophical quandaries until the kid goes and dies on his own anyway.”

Or my favorite;
>”Hot White security officer gets captured by the Planet of the Black People.”

I noticed that the blue LCARS was brought back with Voyager and the late TNG films.

>”Hot White security officer gets captured by the Planet of the Black People.”
best way to describe that piece of shit episode

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