Can somebody explain to me the value and market caps of cryptocurrencies currently?
What is the point of cryptocurrencies? No matter how much I think about it I just don't get it. Bitcoin is a retarded model for a currency. At first glance it seems fine until you realize eventually you will need to be a data center just to store the transaction history, and getting the coins in the first place is an extreme waste of energy.
Now we have 8 trillion coins, all with "value" but what exactly is that value? Isn't the point of these things to be currencies we use for anonymous activities? People are buying these things like stocks and reporting on taxes to the IRS and a bunch of other shit. If the only backing to these currencies are government exchanges where the fuck does the value come from? As of right now we are literally throwing money at magic math problems that waste a massive amount of energy and do nothing for no apparent reason.
Furthermore, how is the current market cap for Cryptocurrencies 1 trillion dollars? 1 trillion dollars of what? How was 1 trillion dollars pulled out of thin air if nothing of value was created? Before, when bitcoin was primarily a tool to get paid for "illegal" services like supporting Wikileaks or buying drugs I could see it's market value, but now it's value is entirely derived from it being valuable. None of what is going on makes sense to me.
Carson Phillips
I’m a nutshell, it makes about as much sense as the stock market.
Owen Howard
Fiat currency has no real value either.
Jackson Myers
G-g-guys? I'm scared
Caleb Bell
>it's value is entirely derived from it being valuable
you already get it OP
Jonathan Cruz
because some people believe it is a better system of money like an upgrade from fiat just like how people thought money was better than bartering and whatever the fuck people used to buy stuff with. If the ideas becomes popular enough it will be the new form of money if not people invested will lose most of their money. It's called an investment op when you risk some money now for the opportunity to make more later.
Charles Rodriguez
Desu, it's going up in value because the USD is going down in value.
It's a free market currency that is opposed to centralized banking systems. It's going up because it's revolutionary and if you save your money in crypto, the value will INCREASE, not decrease like if you used USD or euros.
Alexander Adams
That's asinine though.
A stock is backed by some arbitrary thing like a company and it's value is derived from speculation.
A currency, which bitcoins are supposed to be is generally backed by the potential output of the supplies of the currency. For example the US government supplies USD and the potential output of the US is strong. There are other factors, but the point is there are things there.
Crypto does not have anything of the sort backing it. In fact this entire board proves the only thing that is pumping its value is the fact people think buying them will make you rich. Speculative pumping of shitty stocks and selling it all off for cash is illegal in the stock world because it's an easy way to make cash on things that are worthless.
But I can explain why a dollar has it's buying power. Why the fuck do cryptocurrencies currently have a market cap chasing 1 trillion dollars? There isn't even an efficiently designed coin in existence yet and they border worthless as currencies unless converted to local currencies defeating the entire purpose of their existence (as told to me by the white papers I have read about BTC and ETH)
Wyatt Lewis
>A currency, which bitcoins are supposed to be is generally backed by the potential output of the supplies of the currency. For example the US government supplies USD and the potential output of the US is strong. There are other factors, but the point is there are things there. >Crypto does not have anything of the sort backing it. In fact this entire board proves the only thing that is pumping its value is the fact people think buying them will make you rich. Speculative pumping of shitty stocks and selling it all off for cash is illegal in the stock world because it's an easy way to make cash on things that are worthless. you can buy products and services and other currencies using crypto so I dont see how this is an argument
Gabriel Anderson
Bruh it really shouldn't be that hard to understand. Blockchain has the potential to revamp our financial system and we're betting on what meme coin is going to be valuable in the future. Computers and the internet have already revolutionized communication, entertainment, productivity and many others. It's very reasonable to expect it to revolutionize currency aswell
Jason Cook
How are exponentially increasing power and processing requirements to solve pointless math problems an upgrade to fiat currencies when it is still possible to regulate it and it's worthless until converted to your local currency? What is even the point of all the systems to keep transactions anonymous if you are going through local governments getting rid of this part of the equation?
Ian Jenkins
In that scenario in order for BTC to have value it must take value from somewhere else, or then it just made value by being able to transfer value, which makes no sense.
What coins on the front page of this board do you think are going to revolutionize currency? What is it about BTC to you even that makes it revolutionary?
Noah Diaz
Do you think that its overvalued or rather than its true value should be zero?
Bentley Walker
It's slowly gaining traction (especially in Asia).
It use to be about currency, now it's about smart contracts, networks and all kinds of applications.
Ian Richardson
basically if the USD didn't exist, cryptos or gold would dominate
cryptos are trying to seep their way into the present system which is currently almost fully monopolized by the violence of the government
Nathan Price
>networks and all kinds of applications
These are literally meaningless buzzwords. I can say that about normal currencies. Please give actual examples.
>Smart contracts
Why exactly do you desire smart contracts? Given the implementation of most cryptocurrenceis, this just means the entire network is able to be compromised by an evil actor with more processing power than the good actors, which means you can take out most currencies with a simple botnet and with no regulatory force if you lose your money you are SOL
Isaac Evans
Cryptocurrencies do not change who control most of the money because you cannot pretend the actual reason money has value is changing whatsoever with the currency exchange format changing.
Connor Russell
The point is there are always suckers who want to get rich quick. Greed is an extremely potent force that can make even smart people make retarded decisions like buying worthless assets that they don't understand.
Adrian Butler
lel what this makes no sense
if USD lost value then those who control USD would lose their purchasing power
Christopher Lopez
Economical (r)evolution, digital money, product of globalisation, basically instead of printing them they creating them with magical math problems. In 5 years there won't be more than 6 crypto currency anyway.
Luke Wood
If cryptocurrencies somehow overtook the USD it would be regulated in America heavily and the companies would still pay taxes to the US government.
The US holds money but it's value comes from things like property and companies, not the actual currency itself. Virtual coins are not going to change this.
Jayden Reed
yeah bro all the rich people definitely store all of their money in USD and not US equities / real estate / bonds, the combined market cap of which is many times the number of USD in circulation (1.4 T USD in circulation vs. T US Equity Market Cap, 10T just in NYC real estate, bond cap massive idk how large but many times equity market cap).
These assets are of course totally tied to the USD and are not at all independent of it.
Changing the numeraire changes nothing about wealth distribution
Isaac Rivera
its much harder for the US government to track crypto transactions
if crypto overtook USD, the american gov would lose their tax base
and they should
I hope we starve the beast
Jaxon Clark
>yeah bro all the rich people definitely store all of their money in USD and not US equities / real estate / bonds which are valued in US dollars dummy
US dollar goes down, these things crash fucking hard they are already in a bubble
Kayden Nguyen
You literally don't understand where most money in the economy even comes from. Companies have to keep records of their transactions. Going to a company and seeing a bunch of value that is hidden away from cryptotransactions just means they are going to get audited, and whoever went with your genius plan is going to go jail.
John Lee
gold has value because it's scarce and difficult to extract
the same properties apply to crypto, except crypto has more uses on top
don't get me wrong, your concerns are valid and there are problems in the crypto sphere - but scarce, fungible, easily transferable , decentralized representations of value.., can have value for those reasons alone
Charles Phillips
USD is backed by absolutely nothing at all besides two things: 1. your trust in the US government 2. it being considered to hold a certain value with merchants accepting it as payment.
Fiat currency is garbage though because the ability to print it out causes inflation which guarantees that the currency will fall to zero at some point.
Christopher Lopez
If you starve the beast it will attack
Caleb Howard
Stop thinking like some white middle class American and this will make a whole lot more sense faggot
Gavin Rodriguez
I really like EGAS, it looks like a scamcoin but even if it is, at this price it can still go 10x before it gets dumped. check it out. Take a look@ coinmarketcap.com/currencies/ethgas/
Owen Jenkins
This. USD truly overtaking BTC doesn't really change anything except that it takes cash out of the equation which governments will love.
Luis Allen
People thought the same shit when credit cards came out get with the times grandpa or get left behind
Benjamin Richardson
>pointless math problems
they're not pointless because they're securing the network
digging a hole is pointless but not if there's gold at the bottom
Michael Stewart
douchebag much?
Christian Reed
I really like EGAS, it looks like a scamcoin but even if it is, at this price it can still go 10x before it gets dumped. check it out. Take a look@ coinmarketcap.com/currencies/ethgas/
Nathan Adams
Because people see it going up in price, which causes a feedback loop. People are naturally attracted to things that can make them rich without working for it, same reason why the lottery and casinos are popular.
Just be smart and know when to sell out. Millionaires and even billionaires will be made from this craze, but the vast majority will end up holding the bag.
Nolan Torres
>Oh look, entitled rich guy picking on the regular Joes!
Go back to high school, prick.
Austin Phillips
>USD is backed by absolutely nothing at all besides two things: >1. your trust in the US government >2. it being considered to hold a certain value with merchants accepting it as payment. >Fiat currency is garbage though because the ability to print it out causes inflation which guarantees that the currency will fall to zero at some point. THIS
Alexander Moore
>Why exactly do you desire smart contracts? Given the implementation of most cryptocurrenceis, this just means the entire network is able to be compromised by an evil actor with more processing power than the good actors, which means you can take out most currencies with a simple botnet and with no regulatory force if you lose your money you are SOL
Are you paid FUD? This line is 100% false. The whole point of the blockchain is that this can't happen unless you have a 51% attack. It would take a hell of a lot more than a fucking simple botnet. If that were true BTC would have been wasted along time ago.
You're whole thread is just basically a FUD attack with just enough truth to make uninformed belief your lies. Smart contracts are the future.
Noah Edwards
Did you not read what I said? I said cryptocurrencies. BTC is safe only because of it's popularity, but then this current craze isn't just BTC and ETH is it? How many miners do these literally who coins have? It's nothing more than chasing the wave.
This is fucking retarded, sure you can frame it as "trust in the US government" and you'd be correct, but you also don't even mention that the U.S government leads the:
Most powerful military in the world and Most powerful economy in the world
If the USD falls into some massive crisis and people are searching en masse to hold their shit in bitcoin, then we have literally hit the nuclear fucking apocalypse and 99% of humanity is wiped out anyways.
David Harris
>Fiat currency is garbage though because the ability to print it out causes inflation which guarantees that the currency will fall to zero at some point.
do you realize that gold backed USD was just a temporary experiment
and do you realize that if coming off the gold standard wouldnt happen the economy will crumble since as the number and valuation of assets increased drastically with fixed supply of USD it value would grow exponentially just as bitcoin and it will mean that people would hold on to them instead of participating in economy and USA would end up being a third world country
Do you know how to spot a brainlet? muh gold standard
Jace White
>Most powerful economy in the world not for long lmao
they have the biggest debt in the world
they're so royally fucked
if people stop using the dollar USA dies
Ryder Harris
lmao
another brainlet
Zachary Wood
>and do you realize that if coming off the gold standard wouldnt happen the economy will crumble It would decline temporarily and then go back up. Nixon only got off the gold standard so the gov could pay it's debts that it shouldn't have even had in the first place. Getting off the gold standard fucked up royally and is the cause of the massive economic stagnation we've been experiencing.
Jackson Anderson
It has value for the same reason anything has value you brainlet: people believe it does.
Jaxson Price
>mean that people would hold on to them instead of participating in econom LMAO they would have SAVINGS, which is the lifeblood of the economy once they have enough savings people would be spending this money like crazy and it would have created a massive service sector economy with real savings backing it up
kill yourself keynesian brainlet
Gabriel Jenkins
>being a triggered leftist brainlet lmao
Christian Rogers
not just merchants, but the US government, in the form of taxes. You pay your taxes solely in USD. therefore, to live in the united states without being thrown in jail, you need USD.
that is why it's accepted.
Matthew Thomas
Yeah that’s great and all but earn real money at this Pump discord server discord gg/YQqTCqt
Oliver Hernandez
>Getting off the gold standard fucked up royally and is the cause of the massive economic stagnation we've been experiencing.
No it isnt
introducing stocks, bonds, futures and all other stupid assets as well as stupid wealth redistribution where average joe basically doesnt take part in these is the reasen why economy in US is the way it is
Mason Scott
SURE U R E
Austin Phillips
>No it isnt It absolutely fucking is you leftist shitstain
The value of the US dollar has declined rapidly since then.
In the 50s/60s back when we were on a semi-gold standard there was a booming middle class.
Now the new generations are totally fucked over. Fuck you corporate kike apologist
>introducing stocks, bonds, futures Where do you think the money came from that got pumped into these things came from user? Getting off the gold standard was just a massive wealth transfer from the poor and middle class to the super rich.
Brayden Fisher
Take a math class and put your money on ETH and just forget about till December since you are so new
Jack Stewart
Banks
Jacob King
To anyone that thinks theres a bubble or its ending soon youre in for a rude awakening come 2030 when we're still flipping money on this shit
Gavin Gomez
I dont think you understand what I am saying
why would you spend dollars if their valuation is increasing everyday? How would you scale this?
Its pretty fucking easy to resort to MUH gold standard, see momma thats why we are so pooor ree rhetoric since it makes you soo much more clever than the other fag but it doesnt make it true.
Gavin Butler
if only there were some kind of additional variables that occurred between the 1970's and now that could possibly be responsible for these differences.
what a tragedy if these differences weren't easily expressible in a meme image.
good thing that's not the case! ron paul 2020!!
Ryder King
>leftists >implying the right is any better
May I remind you that Nixon, a right-winger is the one who got rid of the gold standard? Not to mention that Nixon was one of the most elitist presidents of all time, having literally declared war on the poor with the War on Drugs.
Matthew Edwards
>why would you spend dollars if their valuation is increasing everyday? Classic keynesian myth. You wouldn't. You would save most of your money at the start This is a good thing. More money goes into things like mining and manufacturing instead of consumer goods. The economy restructures itself after a few months and then begins to grow again as spending increases. This is the only way to have REAL economic production instead of constant bubbles.
>Its pretty fucking easy to resort to MUH gold standard because it's LITERALLY what fucking happened and you faggots have ZERO argument
the entire gilded age industrial revolution in USA happened under a deflationary gold standard and it there was double digit levels of production stay mad
Jeremiah Ramirez
wow nice assumptions, it goes well with all your other clever thoughts about how good it would be if it were like yoy are saying, right R-RIGHT? You are so clever after all, clever boy
Robert Johnson
>May I remind you that Nixon, a right-winger Nixon was a leftist though. He gave the central bank(a leftist institution, marx desired it in the communist manifesto) more power.
Not saying republicans aren't bad. They're just not right wingers economically.
>if only there were some kind of additional variables that occurred between the 1970's and now that could possibly be responsible for these differences. Yes, government getting off the gold standard and creating the massive inflation of the 70s.
>good thing that's not the case! ron paul 2020!! You don't have an argument and you desire your own enslavement kill yourself central banker apologist you don't belong on Veeky Forums nocoiner
Logan Bennett
>wow nice assumptions I think you mean facts
Look at your post, you have ZERO refutation to anything I've said. lol
Go suck janet yellens dick
Blake Carter
and you are lacking not only common economic knowledge but also basic understanding of politics And I dont even am a leftist
Nolan Flores
Another useless post with zero argument. Wow you certainly have me convinced.
Jaxon Long
>You wouldn't. >You would save most of your money at the start >This is a good thing. >More money goes into things like mining and manufacturing instead of consumer goods. >The economy restructures itself after a few months and then begins to grow again as spending increases. >This is the only way to have REAL economic production instead of constant bubbles.
Prove this faggot
Liam Powell
>Prove this faggot Look at the entire gilded age. Massive levels of economic production that occurred under a deflationary gold standard for like 3-4 decades. During this time americans had the highest wages in the world and prices were the lowest.
>b-buh muh long depression a myth, wages were increasing all through this period.
>b-buh everyone was poor, muh coal mines, muh rubber barons lmao, no shit, the economy was much less productive 120+ years ago because technology/production was not as advanced as today. It was still a massive economic boom and the laws of economics shouldn't magically change over time. If we never got off the gold standard, if we never created the federal reserve, we would probably have a 2 day workweek and everyone would just have fun all day consuming consumer goods and doing entertaining things with their families etc. You and the bankers are the people fighting against this shit.
Nolan Gutierrez
lol. okay. whatever, nice fantasy
Asher Turner
>How was 1 trillion dollars pulled out of thin air t. doesn't understand market caps.
Jaxon Hill
>actual american history that occurred for decades is a fantasy Whatever user, stay retarded.
I bet you think a "deflationary spiral" caused the great depression too.
Kevin Price
>What coins on the front page of this board do you think are going to revolutionize currency?
Ethereum
Adrian Clark
Next thing you're going to say the holocaust didn't happen
Nathan Turner
It did but probably only 500k jews died and it was mostly due to lack of food and disease during the war.
Julian Gutierrez
you understand that the US broke from the gold standard in the 30's and not in the 70's, right user? it's what brought us out of the great depression. BECAUSE FIAT MONEY WORKS.
nice graph. I have one too. it says you're a faggot who gets economic news from memes and draws spurious correlations among charts that happen to have the same origin.
>nocoiner. kys, I bought my first btc in 2012 but I was rich IRL before that.
Nathan Sanchez
jesus christ this guy.
John Hill
>Nixon is a leftist >Banks are leftists >Everything I don't like is left.
Wyatt Kelly
inflation based economy is for brainlets if deflationary economy wouldn't work, the tech sector would be 'third world' levels, since whenevre you buy some tech, you know you'll be able to buy something better for less in 2 years. but you buy it because you need it. maybe gdp becomes lower in a deflationary economy, but that's literally just the flow of money. not the wealth of people and not their well being at all. there's 0 point in forcing people to spend their money by devaluating it. it only works if there are competing economies, then the inflationary one will indeed anallihate the deflationary one by trade-deficit. but as long as economies are equally deflationary, it only leads to a much more sensible global economy.
Bentley Brooks
>you understand that the US broke from the gold standard in the 30's and not in the 70's, right user? no shit idiot. We were on a full gold standard until 1913, then we had a semi gold standard until 1970 when nixon closed the gold window
>t's what brought us out of the great depression. BECAUSE FIAT MONEY WORKS. Fiat money doesn't work. Fiat money(along with massive government intervention) CAUSED the great depression. After WW2 was over keynesians like yourselves wanted the government to keep the war spending going or they said the economy would collapse. Instead the government dramatically decreased spending, taxes and regulations and it resulted in the most economically productive year in american history and this lead to the post war boom. Learn american history.
>it says you're a faggot who gets economic news from memes and draws spurious correlations among charts that happen to have the same origin. but keynesian teenagers do that. You people don't actually read books or economic articles and just have this blind "deflation is le bad" ideology without actually questioning it. You don't even have any real arguments and you couldn't refute anything I said in my previous posts on economic history.
You're a fucking idiot and if you hate cryptos so much like pic related keynesian kike then you shouldn't be on this board.
>I bought my first btc in 2012 LOL really? You own crypto but it goes against your ideology? You do know all of the economists you worship hate crypto and want the government to regulate it out of the market right?
I see you also believe the "6 million jews died, not one more or one less" meme. lol why are you even on Veeky Forums redditor?
Charles Foster
Not far left. But yes, yes those things are left wing.
This based guy gets it.
Grayson Russell
interesting, thank you user for this post made me think and gonna look into it more
Ayden Foster
>fiat money doesn't work >he types from his affordable supercomputer that he uses to trade magic internet money with fellow neets around the world in his copious spare time during his life of relative luxury yes this fiat currency didn't work out well for anyone.
re: america: post-war WW2 was the most prosperous time in american history because we were an unrivaled hyperpower supplying and arming the rest of the (devastated) world.
re: crypto being against my ideology: this is a massive speculative bubble. I am here to make money off of it. I have, it's great. you should try it. money fucking rules.
re: the holocaust: ok we're done here.
Wyatt Lopez
I found this arrogance particularly amusing since its obvious youve been in crypto for 2 months tops
Landon Morris
My problems with Crypto.
1. Lack of Value. The only proven value add of crypto was buying illegal goods on the black market.
2. Not user friendly. Send money to wrong address? Money gone. Get hacked? Money gone. Lose wallet keys? Money gone. Normies will not trust a system where they have no customer support.
3. ICOs are Chuck E. Cheese tokens. Seriously, they are. No dividends. Not equity. No nothing because the hope to resell later at a higher price.
What I've learned from Crypto is most humans cannot think for themselves and will follow the herd.
Easton Wilson
The right and the left are both evil in their own way.
The left believes in centralized banks, and they will prevent those banks from failing by any means necessary (i.e; bailouts)
The right believes in trickle-down economics, which in reality is a caste system where the rich get huge handouts from the government (i.e; Trump tax plan) at the expense of the poor and middle class.
Easton Ward
>>fiat money doesn't work >>he types from his affordable supercomputer that he uses to trade magic internet money with fellow neets around the world in his copious spare time during his life of relative luxury What the fuck do these 2 things have to do with each other? Holy shit you're a brainlet.
>yes this fiat currency didn't work out well for anyone. What does fiat currency have to do with this? I already explained why we would be much better off if we never had a central bank. It's like you're saying if you're are enslaved in prison and the guard gives you water and food, the prison is a massive benefit to you, insanity. Also, the tech sector is actually DEflationary lol.
>re: america: post-war WW2 was the most prosperous time in american history because we were an unrivaled hyperpower supplying and arming the rest of the (devastated) world. Man I never get tired of hearing this OLD and STUPID keynesian argument and you faggots constantly get destroyed on it. If our trading partners were destroyed it means we should have been much WORSE off. You are basically saying that if we nuked the rest of the world to the stone age, our economy would rapidly improve. Makes no sense. Post war boom happened because america had a mostly stable currency while having a mostly free market economy. If we took the socialist route we would have accomplished nothing.
>re: crypto being against my ideology: this is a massive speculative bubble. I am here to make money off of it. I have, it's great. you should try it. money fucking rules. Hope you have fun when the economists and politicians you suck the dick of try to ban crypto because it messes with the federal reserve's goals.
You absolutely REFUSE to question your own ideology. You are the biggest bootlicker, holy shit lol
Jason Foster
>The right believes in trickle-down economics, which in reality is a caste system where the rich get huge handouts from the government (i.e; Trump tax plan) at the expense of the poor and middle class. Trickle down economics isn't even fucking real. It's a leftist strawman argument. Supply side economics was literally just the economic policy of the reagan administration. They barely even implemented it. Also supply side economics is very similar to keynesianism. Supply side economics is anti free market garbage.
What the USA needs to do is to implement a FREE MARKET. It's superior to all of these ideas.
William Flores
>"I love the government because they steal poor people money and give it to me and my rich friends"
I hope you get fucking shot faggot
Ayden Rodriguez
Yeah, trickle-down is literally a ponzi scheme orchestrated by the government. In reality what happens is government steals poor peoples' money and gives it to rich people.
William Morgan
My problems with Stocks.
1. Lack of Value. It's literally all speculation, they have absolute 0 actual value. When was the last time a company like Apple, Microsoft, Google or Amazon have been acquired by buying up public stocks? What is the probability that your 500,000 USD worth of stocks will be the decisive factor in the acquasation of a company valued over 100,000,000,000 USD? There's close to 0 real value in stocks, you just give your money for them for 0 guarantees. Technically a company that 100x'd its profits could still have the value of their stocks degrade. The only thing stops it from hapenning is speculation.
2. Not user friendly. Need say anything about this? Normies can't even trade stocks directly at all, they all need to pay serious %s of their investments to brokers.
3. Stocks are Chuck E. Cheese tokens. Seriously, they are. No dividends. Not equity. No nothing because the hope to resell later at a higher price. Even IF there are dividends, there's no binding in how much they'd have to pay 10 years from now based on their incomes (which is super easy to fake anyways)
Jackson Thomas
I love when I'm debating with a leftist and he keeps getting rekt on points and his posts keep getting smaller and smaller as he desperately tries to cling onto the last shreds of 1 or 2 of the minor arguments in my post and ignores the rest of everything.
wew
Tyler Ward
hey bailouts during the great recession were good for people's quality of life because they ultimately prevented the larger economy from imploding.
Jaxon Johnson
stop using the word trickle down, it isn't a real thing it's a leftist strawman argument
we don't have "trickle down" right now
we have central bank creating trillions of dollars and giving it to bankers and corporations while the economy gets destroyed and poor people's purchasing power decreases
this is neo-keynesianism, not "trickle down".
Thomas Ward
obama was actually a pretty good president. hillary would have been good too. ron paul is old and senile.
Ryan Ross
you also have no problem with the 7 trillion bank-bailout in 2009?
Carson Rivera
the federal reserve was a good invention. it promotes economic stability. adjusting interest rates etc. can be useful.
also: nazis were actually bad people and the holocaust was bad.
Ian White
Obama was shit, so is Trump. Fuck off you douche ass lib. You're as fucked up as my father.
Joshua Phillips
banks SHOULD have failed, the economy would have restructured itself within a year or so and we would be back on solid ground with a functional economy and growing, these bankers should have been in jail
It fucking WORKED in Iceland. Next you're going to say Iceland is small so my point doesn't count.
Okay, it worked in 1920 in USA when the state cut spending and taxes after the federal reserve created a recession.