Is Veeky Forums SJW's or rational centrists?

>They're not the only race to do it, but they have done it more than most. This is inarguable.
And why were we able to do this?
Might it be because we are in fact superior in mental capacity, which allowed us to progress fast and gain from this progress we made.
Or because we are spawn of the devil?
>Whites created nuclear weapons, colonized most of the world, and are responsible for most of our environmental problems.
Exactly, whites created all science AND then we traveled the world and enlightened them to our ways.

How do you think Africa would look without colonialism? An even bigger shithole then it is today, full of tribes killing each other with Spears over some piece of ground.

Modern blacks should be fucking thankful for colonialism.
>How the fuck are other races supposed to feel about this? If the tables were turned, you would want us annihilated. Maybe you can see why we're so fucking pissed.
Grateful.

Not only did we discover the world and created civilization, we also shared it.

Really so the hundreds of million Africans enslaved by Muslims is better than the tens of million enslaved by Europeans?

Stop kike washing history. I would honestly pay to see niggers try to pull whitey out of their homes considering gun ownership among whites.

>Whites created nuclear weapons
Marvel of science

>colonized most of the world
This is a good thing. African nations affected by colonialism are doing better than african nations that were not affected by colonialism.

>How the fuck are other races supposed to feel about this?
Grateful

>Maybe you can see why we're so fucking pissed.
You're not pissed you just don't have the IQ to see what a net benefit we have given the world.

How exactly did you come to the conclusion that the colonized were not violent?
Most fought against the colonizers with equal violence, they were just technologically inferior and lost.

Violence is genetic in ALL humans.

>We're skeptics
Speak for yourself, I'm no stranger to koolaid.

>Most fought against the colonizers with equal violence, they were just technologically inferior and lost.
That obviously not the same thing. Using violence to attack and using violence to defend is different.

>How exactly did you come to the conclusion that the colonized were not violent?
when did I come to that conclusion?

The way /pol/ shits up this board is a convincing argument for white genocide

I thought you argued the point "whites are genetically violent".

Was I wrong in reading that between the lines?

The fact that whites smell bad, are shit at math, and can't control their women is reason enough

>t. Korean

If you actually read the thread you would realize that it was started by a non-white trying to justify a genocide based of a sever misunderstanding of history.

It is not the fault of the /pol/ Boogeyman that people will argue such ridiculous things.

>I thought you argued the point "whites are genetically violent".

>Was I wrong in reading that between the lines?
Yes. All I said was being prone to violence can possibly be considered genetic.

The way minorities are completely ungrateful regarding white innovation is a convincing argument to incite a race war

Okay, then consider that my point was that all humans (and most animals for that matter) are prone to violence.

>that all humans are prone to violence
using all immediately makes your argument invalid if I can find only one person who never used violence in his/her life.

Also If you are drawing tat conclusion from your argument tat using violence to attack and defend is the same thing, that is not how society sees it. But you can redefine the word violence, thats up to you.

>using all immediately makes your argument invalid if I can find only one person who never used violence in his/her life.
Read the definition of the word "prone".
It does NOT mean that something is guaranteed to happen.

>Also If you are drawing tat conclusion from your argument tat using violence to attack and defend is the same thing, that is not how society sees it. But you can redefine the word violence, thats up to you.
What are you on about?

Of course using violence to defend yourself means that you are using violence.

Can you not grasp that? Why would I need to redefine anything?

>Read the definition of the word "prone".
I assumed "prone to violence" applies to individual humans instead of humans as a whole.
But anyway that statement is still very very debatable. For one thing we don't know most of the history of humans.
Also I think most people in history just lived in his house and farmed his land.

>Of course using violence to defend yourself means that you are using violence.
If you go to campus and start fighting with 5 random people, you will be considered a violent person. If 5 people attacks you and you defend yourself by fighting back most people wont considered you a violent person.

Nukes and colonization are semetic inventions. Whitey was fooled into doing their bidding, now whitey must pay for their "crimes."

>being this mad at being cucked by white dick

>Using violence to attack and using violence to defend is different.
Except the Europeans started colonization as a defense against pirates, see France vs. Barbary pirates. If I were raped by sand niggers for 1,000 years, I would abuse my power too.

Both of you are retarded. Now shut the fuck up.

no u

All races do the same, but some just do it better than others. Whites did more of what humans do, because they are better humans.

Really.

who are Turks, Arabs, Chinese, Japanese, Spanish, Portuguese, Polynesians, Bantu Africans, Mongols...

Colonialism is not random violence, it's expansion for wealth and power, violence was only a necessity to spread this but colonizers would've rather taken countries peacefully as it'd be far cheaper

Le sci is le community xd leegun

More like radical centrists.

>Modern whites are not responsible for colonialism

Yet they still maintain and only recognize the political boundaries their forefathers ordained during colonial times.

If you have wonder why the middle east and Africa is in a near constant state of civil wars part of it has a lot to do with the fact that said tribes and populations who reside within those political boundaries do not recognize them as such. Thus do not recognize these territorial disputes as possible uprisings and invasions.

To them the world atlas as it is viewed now is inaccurate. And they're not the only ones to believe this, China does not view Taiwan as it's own sovereign country and North Korea holds the view the West is purposefully separating South Korea for it's own gain. Maintaining the high security at the border (in their minds) from a possible invasion.

Then we have Mexico which is a mess because even though their government recognized the political boundaries a number of their citizens who are cultural traditionalists view these boundaries as stolen/withheld land.

As much as you and some other Whites want to divorce yourselves from colonialism you still maintain the fallout as such.

Are you talking about the refugee crisis, because muslims and africans aren't assimilating?

Colonialism was the greatest gift the whites ever gave you.

Why are you not grateful for being given all of science and civilization?

Believe it or not, I am grateful. But neither you nor I should forget the sacrificial smoldering corpses we stand on thanks to colonialism.

Every race lost millions of their own people because of this. World War 1 and eventually later on 2 came about because of european infighting over colonized African territories. Disease later on ravaged hundreds of thousands more world wide.

I'm not going to pretend (especially since I work a job involving geospatial topology) that this shit didn't happen nor ignore the lingering ramifications it has on other nations.

Sadly my these comforts afforded to me by your forefathers does not cloud my observation. I wish it did since then I would live a slightly less weighted life.

>Middle East and Africa is in a near constant state of civil wars
Because Europeans and Americans send aid to an area that can't support it's own population, only making the problem worse, because the aid goes to breeding rather than improving the quality of the land. Also, the CIA's involvement in constructing fake targets for neo-cons and shit-libs to attack or harbour depending on political whims. See the war on terror or the refugee crisis for evidence.

>You still maintain the fallout as such.
No we don't, you are describing the Baby Boomer want-to-bes that would like everything to return to the 1950s and 1980s, believe in the American Dream, and want to see the destruction of all things natural. Not everyone on the right agrees with this point of view. Trying to make America something it will never be again is pointless. Personally, I believe all borders should be drawn on ethnic lines.

>Radical Centrist

Those are the dumbest people. They don't do any research and think all politicians secretly are bought out and only care about themselves

There are no SJWs in Veeky Forums, kid.

>board that studies and respects science
>SJW
oh boy

I believe a white ethnostate will always outcompete shitty subhuman countries without the need to wipe them out but some of the posts in this thread make me wish we had less compassion for other races.

I larp as everything though, as long as it creates comedy.

nice fuckin digits m8

what level of irony is this?

>violent is genetic too
Yes, violent is genetic. The violence gene is 9 times more prevalent in blacks than in whites... blacks commit more violent crimes than whites.

smart but immature basically

I'm not being ironic. Germany seemed to be doing pretty well before they got massacred by literally the entire rest of the civilized world. The countries with the highest standard of living are also the most white.

> we
Speak for yourself nigger.

>created civilization

That goes to the middle east. Just like Scripture,Currency,Agriculture and units of time measurement.

>/pol tard is convinced that /sci must be SJW since the facts constantly undermine the bible.

Science doesn't have a political position, no matter how much sean hanity and rush Limbaugh wish it did.

I'm a deep ecologist, individualist anarchist in favor of actual free markets not capitalist "free markets") a labor/ecological based theory of value, voluntarily econmics and radical democracy.
Sjws aren't real. It was a convenient common enemy for neckbeards to rally around, constructed during gamer gate. Since the meme has bifurcated reniforcing itself and has entered the political areana. Sure there are some dumb feminist but every anti feminist is foolish. I myself happen to be an individualist fem.
I belive the problem is not a political one it is a structural one resulting from the behavoir of totalitarian corporations, their state protectors and the media they control. There are also many conceptual anachronisms that are in play. I will not mention these because they have the same fix, Liberty.
If we would come together and abolish the nanh state, the tyranny it protects such as corporate power, usury, and private property(no jimbo I do not want to take your house, I want you to live in your house for free) and more would disapear.
There would not be a wage gap if you where paid based on how much work you do and not the least amount possible.
Gender roles and wealth inequality the same, if everyone could occupy the earth they were born into without having to work for something else to afford it.
Ecological justice(all social justice is ecological justice btw) will be much better considering people would rediscover their connection to the living word after they escape the corporate command economies.
I could go on and on, it's more than possible to do this. Why doesn't anyone? They don't know, you won't here about this in school or the media, because guess who controls the flow of information to that?
"SJWs", the ultra right, everyone is seeing the effects of the same problems.
The problem is they haven't been informed of what the cause is. So there solutions are ridiculous.like fixing a broken light by repeatably flicking the light switch.

>Really so the hundreds of million Africans enslaved by Muslims is better than the tens of million enslaved by Europeans?
Did you really expect Veeky Forums to know anything about history?

Jesus Christ get over yourself.

You guys don't actually believe this, right? You're not such horrible racists that you think all white people should be extinguished, right? I thought this place was about science, logic, and reasoning. So far I'm seeing the opposite of that.

was i wrong?
how am i supposed to get over the highest thing in existence?

>the SJW isn't real
I challenge you to come onto my campus, experience the things I have experienced, and then say that to my face. I was a part of the liberal arts program (fell for that meme) for my first few years in campus and not a day went by in a single class where I didn't hear about how mistreated minorities have been and how evil and ignorant straight white males are. To be honest, I went in as another feminist leftist type. I thought the media was sexist and that the patriarchy was real. I didn't come to these conclusions because of what I've read up on the web. I watched a grown college girl cry in front of an entire group of "actors" about how there weren't more women with big noses represented in movies. I've seen girls make presentation on why women being hired for roles at a younger age is sexist. The people who chose what plays we'd be doing outright said they'd be actively discriminating against choosing white males in order to be more "active" in helping minorities even though straight white men made up a third of the students. Hell, they even said they'd get black actors even if they had to look for actors outside of the program. It was fucking ridiculous which is why I grew to hate them. Discrimination of any kind is still discrimination, only leftists don't think they can possibly be guilty of the same crime they accuse others are. U of U student by the way.

>I challenge you to come onto my campus, experience the things I have experienced, and then say that to my face. I was a part of the liberal arts program (fell for that meme) for my first few years in campus and not a day went by in a single class where I didn't hear about how mistreated minorities have been and how evil and ignorant straight white males are.
you misunderstand, ive spent a of time at the evergreen state college selling and consuming drugs and have had plenty of interaction with those types. Most are incredibly irrational, but they are seeing real problems, just not the causes, so their solutions are asinine. Let it be said that there are also many well informed and reasonable people also committed to social justice. Those people are never given any mainstream attention, because they are speaking truth to power and offer solutions that are inconvenient to power, so the corporate media focuses on the wage gap and women in stem instead of the underling causes of injustice
so what you have are uninformed reactionaries reasoning with emotion trying to break through a ceiling oblivious to the fact that there is an elevator right around the corner.
These are not leftist ideologies, there is no difference between them and pol. no reason to make a distinction. They are all disinformed reactionaries reasoning with emotion.

forgive me for the cringe worthy allegory
>you are presented with two doors

>right door says economic growth and jobs

>the left door says its fighting the right door

>both doors lead to the same room

>in that room is a realtor who wants you to get a house

>a banker to give you a mortgage
>a micromanger to give you a job

>a supermarket to take your money

>house got reprocessed

>go to the bankers castle and ask him for your house back

>he tells you to get a job

idk about you but i wouldn't go behind either door. id go get a bunch of my friends and build a new building

Is that the physical manifestation of autism?

To be fair, I find communists are somewhat better than SJWs. At least communists go make their own governments when they don't like their current one.

SJWs are just commies 2.0

When it became obvious that they where losing the argument from an economic point of view they changed "proletarian vs bourgeoises" into privileged vs oppressed.

Nah. Proletarian is an economic class, the opressed and the privileged are identities. A social democrat would want to give social aid to all the poor, an SJW would like to give social aid to the blacks.

Please go ahead and point out what I did wrong.
Are you implying I'm a communist? I told you what I was right off the bat and it wasn't a communist.
Do you really think you could make an economic argument against me?
Please go ahead.
Remember I'm not a communist. I'm a market anarchist. Although I would be more than fine with some kind munciple or communal level of corporate communism. Corporate in the Adam Smith sense, not the corporate command economies we have today.
You know, if you want to build a public school you can incorporate and build it, then the corporation is over

Only the last two of those you quoted even imply violence against whites. The thread was perfectly civil for those first few posts.

I also noticed that nobody called them out. I even saw some people agreeing with them.

decent bait.

>There would not be a wage gap if you where paid based on how much work
The wage gap exists [math]precisely \ because[/math] people who work harder are paid more.
Holy shit you're dense.

>labor/ecological based theory of value
Just admit you're a fucking commie.

>you won't here about this in school or the media, because guess who controls the flow of information
Ah yes, the reason people don't subscribe to my world view is because there's a conspiracy.

>rational centrists
that's code for I don't have an opinion
>or sjw

This is a loaded question

>The wage gap exists precisely becauseprecisely because people who work harder are paid more.
>Holy shit you're dense.
that must be why coal miners earn more money than the LLC's share holders.
or why the manager at a McDonalds earns more than the owner
or why tomato pickers earn more than the stockholders at Heins
what world do you live in, you delusional fuck?
My point was there would not be a wage gap without wages because wages are cryptoslavery

>And, inasmuch [as] most good things are produced by labour, it follows that [all] such things of right belong to those whose labour has produced them. But it has so happened in all ages of the world, that some have laboured, and others have, without labour, enjoyed a large proportion of the fruits. This is wrong, and should not continue. To [secure] to each labourer the whole product of his labour, or as nearly as possible, is a most worthy object of any good government." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume I, "Fragments of a Tariff Discussion" (December 1, 1847), p. 412.

>>labor/ecological based theory of value
>Just admit you're a fucking commie.
just admit you have no idea what communism is and are using it as a snarl word. i am not a communist
>Ah yes, the reason people don't subscribe to my world view is because there's a conspiracy.
never once did i alluded to a conspiracy. Although their are conspiracies(well documented not "theories") What i am referring to is emergent behavior of our political economy.
you are a fool, and talking to you does not amuse me, goodnight
read something .

Gaps also exist because it takes more skill to some of those jobs than simply picking food or taking somebodies order. Would you pay money for food from somebody who doesn't even know how to use an oven? Probably not. But I would pay lots of money for a five star chef to make me a meal. It's not entirely about hard work. It's also about quality and qualifications.

>It's also about quality and qualifications
that the beauty of labor based theory of value
employees are selected by skill instead of how much they can be profited from.
im not even sure about LBV
i have other ideas about eco based value but i cant do the math to get it right

Germany slightly pre/during WW2 did well because it literally conquered half of Europe, and war makes for rich merchants, as do its preparations. Overall though a lot of manpower was lost and factories reduced to rubble in this conquest, I really don't think it was a long term net positive.

I'm a neoliberal, everyone hates us

>everyone hates us
>we only destoryed the entire fucking planet what's the big deal?

>Billions of people pulled out of poverty but some trees died and CO2 is bad so who cares amiright
You do realize we support externality taxes (such as carbon/pollution taxes) right?

Yeah with the world bank(Satan) as your source
Lmao
Market Liberalization destoryed subsaharan Africa, Mexico, and large swaths of South America and and SE Asia. The econmic benifits are funneled into buying super yatchs.
Don't forget about the literal genocides it caused. I'll be back with some case studies.

>Billions of people pulled out of poverty
*Billions of peoplelost everything they have
Ftfy
I would pull all your teeth out, tie them in a sock and beat you to death with it to bring one tree back.

>Yeah with the world bank(Satan) as your source
What are you insinuating exactly? That World Bank is able to lie about the financial status of billions of people and no one notices? How?

I'd love to see your studies.

>Billions of peoplelost everything they have
What did they have? Before the neoliberal order they were colonized. Before that most of them didn't even have basic medicine or food security. Now they are increasingly being born outside of poverty, have access to healthcare, transportation, clean water, and more.

The Green Revolution alone helped end famine in Asia.

>I would pull all your teeth out, tie them in a sock and beat you to death with it to bring one tree back.
Are you okay m8? You sound a bit off the chain

Also, I take it you are a commie or demsoc or something right? Can you give me a single example of a successful leftist state?

I already know you are a retard, and that is the only reason curb stomping people like you isn't a hoby of mine. Stop.

www.acarindex.com/dosyalar/makale/acarindex-1423904090.pdf

rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/367/1606/3158.short

researchgate.net/profile/Hugo_De_Groote/publication/23511496_Market_Liberalization_and_Agricultural_Intensification_in_Kenya_1992-2002/links/0046351b6d81ebd634000000.pdf

www.jstor.org/stable/4313929?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

www.worldsummit2002.de/downloads/WSSD_PA7.PDF

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921800996005526

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/pad.259/full

>t some trees died and CO2 is bad so who cares amiright
You do realize we support externality taxes (such as carbon/pollution taxes) right?
idiot, what you just wavved off is the biggest problem we will ever face. I know all about the psuedo-good guy stunts of IF.
Become ecologically literate or kys

Are you okay m8? You sound a bit off the chain
Yeah! I'm an ecologist.
What you don't know is killing everyone

>Also, I take it you are a commie or demsoc or something right? Can you give me a single example of a successful leftist state?
See >state
Lol no

So a brief survey of your first paper accuses liberalism of killing people because of IP laws regarding drugs. First of all, I'd like to point out that HIV drugs would not be available to Africa at all without globalization. But more importantly, TRIPs specifically allows for compulsory licensing of necessary drugs in situtations where a poor nation cannot feasibly pay for patented drugs.
wto.org/english/docs_e/legal_e/27-trips_04c_e.htm
The papers next makes the unlikely and poorly explained claim that market-friendly policies have created poverty throughout Africa. Firstly, Africa was far poorer prior to neoliberalism. Secondly, this paper is old. Currently, Africa is growing quite fast economically and standards of living are rising. If you don't believe sources like the IMF or WB, go on say Nairaland and ask the Nigerians whether life has improved or worsened over the past 20 years in their nation.

I only skimmed the paper but it doesn't appear to actually claim that neoliberalism caused genocide, only that colonial atrocities should be viewed via a criminological lens which is not related to neoliberalism.

Second paper:
Wtf does this have to do with neoliberalism? Does environmental degredation not occur in socialist countries? Was the USSR super green?

Third paper:
Old. Also this says market liberalization had a limited positive effect and advocates for greater market access.

Honestly if you're not even gonna read the crap you put in front of me, forget it.

Continue to live in a dream world where individual anarchism is feasible, coordination problems don't real, and somehow anarchy will solve pollution and climate change.

Define poverty

I never used the word poverty in the post I just made. Why would it be relevant? Also, I assume I'm still talking to Mr. Individualist Anarchist, how exactly would you prevent a state from forming? And what would an anarchist society do about externalities?

Oh wait, fuck, I did say it once, but only in stating what the article claimed, not my own ideas

I'm not a soild individualist
I'm a mutualist if anything, I don't have a word.
You aren't wrong about the papers I've only read and understood the Mexico one. You've caught me in an emotional time, which are extremely rare nowadays.

Honestly I don't give a rats ass about poverty, I care about biodiversty loss.
I might be coherent tommorow if I sleep tonight

There are ways to organize ourselves without authoritarian entities.
Radical democracy in a network of functionally seperate but interconnected municipalities. Others I can't be bothered with

>What did they have?
an emergent home, a culture

As far as externalities, I allued to it here I'm too spun to remember or find notes but it exists

>What did they have?
Fertile soil
Property rights
Productive fisheries
Other living things around them.
Remember the keyan thing? Look at Kenyas ag issues now
This is widespread
Read WB reports on Bangladesh and see how the shrimp aquaculture forced on them worked out.
Or Tanzania
Or Mexico
Especially Indonesia
I don't even need empirical evidence. Neoliberalism fucks everything up for everyone except for the investors

Okay, well I'm glad you've calmed down. So your a Proudhonian type then. Noted. Thank you for being honest about not reading the papers. Many people like to gish gallop with unread papers, but at least you're sincere enough to admit it.

Honestly, I'm really tired as well. Anyway, it sounds to me like we have fundamentally different values. I don't know if this debate has a point.

Sure there are other ways to organize, but none of them prevent authoritarian entities from emerging, thus it is unstable even if somehow capitalism-less markets are feasible. After all, we lived in a stateless world long ago and yet states emerged and shackled the stateless.

Feel free to ask people on an African web board like Nairaland whether they'd rather have relative food security and medicine or their wholesale traditional culture. Moreover, the majority of cultural destruction was caused by colonialism rather than neoliberalism.

Well, I'm done. For now at least. Maybe I'll continue this tomorrow if I feel like it.

>theater major
>expects to be taken seriously.
That's not even a meme degree, because nobody with a brain would expect that to be viable in the marketplace. I mean, were you really surprised that the theater department was full of overly emotional lunatics? However, I did take an acting for nonmajors class one semester and did actually see what you describe, but the rational is simple and obvious to anyone who isn't a butthurt moron. In the canon of English language plays, there is an extremely limited number of prominent roles written with anyone but white European actors in mind. Yeah it sucks to be on the other end of discrimination, but its hardly the end of Western civilization and it can hardly be said it disadvantaged you (since you are a moron theater major you were already hopeless disadvantaged). Get over it.

The fact that most mental diseases occur in whites and that most of them are either sluts or low test cucks unable to have true empathy is reason enough desu senpai.

Black ghetto anyday.

Phew! I thought I was the only one thinking that.

>t. math tutor at MIT

>whites being cucked since jewsus father got cucked and maria got chads son

>whites created all science
Lrn2historyofscience you faggot

t. Falseflagging sjw

if you have to stress that you are rational, then you probably arent

They're correct. Also we will probably witness white genocide within the next two centuries which comforts me.

This desu senpai.

>tfw indonesian gf