This probably isn't original but here I goes.
To create strong AI all we'd need to do is to create a full brain simulation. Everything relating to cognition would need to be simulated including the whole skull and nervous system.
You would need to capture every cell and its state perfectly and then simulate it. The simulation would need to run down towards the molecular level or at least to organelles. This would be a conscious being that you didn't design but instead replicated. Id say this is easier than simply building an AI from scratch. Why do more work when nature already made it for you?
I have no idea how you'd scan the brain in order to get all the required information. Perhaps Nanites if they ever become a thing(grey goo level) or perhaps some sort of extremely advanced MRI with a resolution far beyond anything we have now.
How we can create strong AI
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brains are contextualised/situated/embodied by their environmental inputs. They have a large impact on our brain structure and ultimately the kind of cognition that you mr. poster are looking for in a brain. Without these inputs, the brain wouldn't function properly i.e. look at disorders of amputation, sensory deprivation. Plus, the cognition that the brain is so good at works mostly in the context of these inputs since, essentially the neocortex (which is probably the bit you are most interested in) essentially makes inferences about the latent structure of its environment. That is where its skill and expertise comes from. Its not going to be able to do anything when its copied because its only going to work in the context of the environment it learned to represent.
all this simulation will do is create a simulation of some kind of severely confused mentally ill brain which won't do anything you want it to.
I can still think and feel emotions without a body. And who says you can't simulate a virtual environment for the brain? And this would be a brain of an already living person with memories and a personality.
Full emulation will probably take longer. It's the brute force solution that makes it inevitable but not the fastest time solution.
AI just needs to continue getting more complex, it will eventually gain more and more capabilities as it is doing now. Once enough layers are added it will reach an abstraction layer that is similar to sentience / general learning in humans.
unless you can create something as complex as the outside world, you're going to have a relatively stupid brain.
yes and the simulation of the already living person would go mad.
you can think and feel emotions without a body but sensory deprivation would fuck it up. people get hallucinations, amputees get phantom limbs and phantom pain. and thats only with a fraction of deprivation. Consider all your senses completely disconnected.
brains dont exist in vaccuums.
very dumb argument.
desu, what do we mean by A.I. anyway? does an A.I. have desires?
how so?
I'll elaborate since I feel sorry for you
Your argument is a low IQ "gotcha" argument.
Like, "If you build a car, it's going to crash into things because there won't be brakes".
You are essentially saying, an obvious feature will be missing.
Like, that house idea you have is really nice, but no one will get inside because there won't be doors on it.
Well, you stupid low IQ fucktard, people will put doors on the house. People will put brakes on the car. Outlining that an essential feature (input) to a system is needed, is basically fucking obvious. Your argument is BRAINDEAD
An intelligent self aware conscious being capable of making its own decisions. If it wishes to murder you it can, if it wants to try to overcome built in programming(fear of heights) it can(just like humans).
yes but you're never going to recreate the inputs to the complexity needed to recreate a genuine intelligence. Modelling the brain is hard enough, but modelling the environment that the brain is infact modelling is going to be even worse.. way worse. just modelling the universe (niche). way harder problem than modelling A.I and if you can model that then you might as well not go through this whole route of recreating a human brain.so you're being stupid. you're talking about it as if its a minor issue "oh just add breaks, add the door". No its like having a photo infront of you of a room (analogy of our brains' intelligence), and thinking that all you need is the camera for this picture when infact you need to assemble the room in the photo to get the picture. its missing a big fucking part
since you'd want to communicate with this AI you'd add visual and auditory sensory information. If you're weak minded then sure you'd go mad because no MUH body.
If I'm entertained I'll be fine and the AI will have the consolation of the fact that eventually they'll get a physical body to move around in with a full suite of sensory information, beyond that of a normal human even.
but where will the motivation come from?
That's a very impractical AI.
you're so fucking stupid you must be baiting.
plus, if you've got the technology to do all of this, i bet you can probably just build a strong a.i. which foregoes all of these stupid problems so in effect, putting this question forward is fucktarded.
lol, holy fuck you're mad, just give up, your argument was/is dumb
Yeah because it would be so easy program a self aware AI with trillions of lines of code.
Just because you have the computing power for this and the scanning tech peanut mean you have the time nor any inclination of how to create consciousness like a human.
I don't understand what you mean. You don't need motivation to think, you just do.
lol, you aren't even arguing back. i assume i won.
What argument? We are already training neural networks with real world data. Your argument is pointless. You are essentially saying we have to remake the universe perfectly in order to feed data from it to a brain.
You have shown you are approximately 115 IQ, I do not see a point in arguing with someone who doesn't understand what sensors are or how we could possibly get real world data into a computer.
It's retarded to think you'd need any inputs more complex than visual and sound.
Would it be strange and frightening? Yes.
Would they go mad? No.
And you'd choose a candidate with a sound mind just to make sure. They'd also have the memories of the original. So they'd know what they are since they'd have the memory of volunteering to have themselves scanned for a simulation.
I'd imagine you'd have editing abilities and full control over the brain. So you could just simulate hits of various anti-anxiety drugs. They could be in a completely relaxed state not to mention you could just "halt" the simulation at will.
It's more interesting to think what avenue is taken from having a brain in a computer to achieving super intelligence. Whether it enhances itself or if investigation looking for a "learning algorithm" is done.
If we manipulate the DNA of our sperm cells to become neurons, and then put them into a robot and have it play videogames for 10 years. It would be the ultimate AI.
not him, but impromptu measuring of someone else's IQ is probably the biggest indicator that you're a pretentious asshole. Even if you were right (which you're not, you're not an IQ test).
that being said
you're an idiot, you know what they say about assuming.
Well since you aren't limited by computing power since your are basically software. Assuming you're not being run on some sort of computer that grows and changes over time, like a real human brain, you'd have access to basically infinite computing power. Just add another super computer that runs you(the ai, again you're basically soft ware where as humans are hardware).
Over time you'd probably learn intuitively and be able to make changes to yourself. Your intelligence level would then only be limited by the amount of processing units you have access to and energy.
don't take posts on Veeky Forums seriously
the brain is extremely sensitive, it isn't an island. you're extremely naive to think these changes won't have a significant effect on the simulation, its structure and function, especially given what relatively small sensory changes can do in the real world. we already know how people can hallucinate or become delusional in sensory deprivation. we know that brain areas disconnected lose matter.
>It's retarded to think you'd need any inputs more complex than visual and sound.
so your idea isn't really to create an a.i. its just to transplant someones mind inside a computer.
>Would they go mad? No.
on what grounds would you say that.
>sound mind
abit underdefined. if we've never done this before, how will we even know a sound mind is enough.
>Why do more work when nature already made it for you?
then use your own brain? whats the actual point of this idea?
i see your game, im not taking your post seriously, so i WILL take every post seriously. checkmate.
youre a fucktard
>all this simulation will do is create a simulation of some kind of severely confused mentally ill brain which won't do anything you want it to
Wrong. If you were able to perfectly scan and replicate a brain down to the molecular level, the replicated brain would have all the same neural pathways and connections as the one you scanned. Therefore, it would be identical in every skill, or reaction to stimuli as the brain you scanned. It would have all the same memories and, if you could talk to it, it would even claim to be the original brain.
Thered be no difference.
It's not transplanting a mind it's simulating one which is creating an AI. And can be no degradation of brain tissue because there is no brain tissue. Virtually there could be but you would need to turn that off and not include it as part of the simulation.
Use my own brain to program the most complex software ever created using scanning tech that doesn't exist yet and on top of that use a multi zettaflop or yottaflop computer to run it?
>To create strong AI all we'd need to do is to create a full brain simulation.
genius
Not an argument.
its easier to simply replicate something existing than create it from scratch.
Neither you nor I or anyone else has any idea how to quantify and create consciousness. We can quantify and understand neurons and atoms and action potential and computer simulations(or emulation really). If you want to create a definitely conscious AI then you could just emulate the brain of someone.
It's the fact that you presented this as something new and previously unthought of, you vapid cunt.
I didn't, dumbass. Read the op again.
>cant even make robots walk properly
>AI IS RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER!
There is a HUGE fissure between what we know about the basics of the brain and what we know about the higher, more abstract processes that arise from them.
You can program your fancy things all day long, and have them learn for years, but we are still lightyears from any stronk AI. Modern neural nets are a fad, a pointless exercise that fails at being an strong AI the same way chatbots do.
We're limited by funding and computing power.
Also see Boston dynamics. Their robots walk and run and jump very well.
Also another solution to this is to create a "catalyzer". Basically genetic engineering or eugenics to increase the average iq and the amount of high level geniuses. If we don't have people smart enough or enough of them to create something then make said smart people in great quantities. We can already genetically engineer and do micro eugenics at the sperm and egg level, like in gattaca.
But you did. Why even bother typing this shit out in the first place, unless you felt that you had something valuable to contribute?
>be me, super genius test tube baby
>born to fulfill scientists desires
>murder them instead
darn@!
>To create strong AI all we'd need to do is to create a full brain simulation
no, biological brains are shit and overly convoluted. Why would we do that?
Project blue-brain
And then you'd have a scared human in a vat. Congratulations.
That human would know it was part of the this experiment since it would remember volunteering to be scanned.
Because it's easier than making a conscious self aware AI from scratch and because you'd know that the ai would actually be self aware since it's an emulated brain.
Doesn't mean it wouldn't be incredibly unsettling to wake up like that. The stress might even kill them or render them useless.
And what level of fidelity is this simulation supposed to have anyway. If you think it's going to be from the quarks up or something like that then you are drastically underestimating the amount of compute power you will need, because it's likely more than the earth currently has in total. If you draw the line somewhere else, you won't know if you've captured the necessary level of detail until you flip it on, and if you haven't, like if certain mechanisms in the brain rely on quantum phenomenon, then you'll have spent decades and billions of dollars on specialized hardware and software for very little in return.
And if it does work, then, like I said, you've got a scared human in a vat who probably costs a shit ton of money in electricity costs to keep operational even for a few seconds.
Just stop worrying about this stuff puny mortal. The Chinese are working on CRISPR super babies that will have come up with better ideas for AI than this by the time they're seven years old.
You can't truly replicate the real easy humans think, and neutral networks don't really work the same way the brain does, it is just an analogy.
The real way humans think
Max theoretical computation is 10^33 flops per joule and I would do this at the atom level.
Nice Wikipedia armchair theorist.
I learned that from my high school physics professor, not wikipedia.
>high school physics professor
>high school
>professor
lmao
this, my fucking 25 year old friend was a high school physics teacher, just proves what a joke the system is, he had a BA in philosophy and just passed some accreditation tests
Teacher, professor same thing and he has a masters in applied physics and taught the ap physics c course and the ap computer science course. So your lmao is pretty unwarranted.
lmao so if you step into a white empty room you immediately lose 20 points of IQ? Yes, a complex environment is necessary for attaining intellgence and obviously expressing it but a simulation at the level of current games is easily enough to keep a brain entertained. What, you think if you play a game the slight nuances in the complex physics of some cloth moving in your perioheral vision keeps your brain from crashing into a sensory deprived madness? All you need are rudimentary sensory inputs and your simulation will be fine for now. Sure it might get mad later on but it's wrong to say intelligence like that is impossible you fucktard.
The brain is a CPU.
It doesn't 'think'. It's the seat of the soul, not the car itself so to say.
>soul
>simulating AI
>in the 21st century
The future lies in curcuits which are constructed to already resemble a brain, that is perfected for certain tasks. For this, we need to construct microcircuits, resembling neurons.
Yes because your brain is just a representational map of the outside world. Change the oinput change the brain. May take time but those prediction errors will eventually cascade up the cortical hierarchy. The sensitivity of input you need can be justified in memory loss over time too. Memory is based on intricate cues from the outside and over time you will lose it if you cant keep those cues. Your brain only tries to be as complex as the environment it entertains hence symaptic pruning. The tiny transfer in computerized game tests for executive function demonstratez games arent enough
...
Simpler, faster solution with the same result: You can have two humans mate and produce a third human and take care of it for a few years. Voilá - (not so) instant functional intelligence. A brain simulated on the "reality" design platform.
AI is complex, but not fundamentally impossible by virtue of not being fundamentally different from "natural" intelligence.
It is really feasible, just recreate the neurons and their paths, and stimulate with an electrical pulse. It definitely would have to be trained and rethought, similarly to a baby's brain. and for this, like another post here mentions, can be done in an emulated virtual reality environment