What is the evolutionary advantage of pain? Surely pain could simply be...

happy_sad
happy_sad

What is the evolutionary advantage of pain? Surely pain could simply be replaced with something less excruciating like anxiety and the end result would be the same?

All urls found in this thread:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_insensitivity_to_pain
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain_asymbolia
5mileys
5mileys

If it wasn't excruciating, it wouldn't work as well.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@happy_sad
pleasure endorphins

try sex without thinking
try primally enraging yourself without thinking
try primally enraging your sex without thinking about your partner
m: ow i should try biting to see what happens
f: ow that fucking hurts maybe i should pinch you with my barbed vagina
m: it works? how about that

SniperGod
SniperGod

@happy_sad
pain is your body telling your brain
that is has made a bad decision

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@happy_sad
Nerves just werk. Theres no ingame settings for life to make stubbing your toe less shitty. If getting mauled to death by a lion isnt the worst thing then you have less incentive to not let that happen.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@happy_sad
Well let's see, what you you think will keep a criter alive long enough to breed? Burning alive in a small fire, or merely being close enough to the fire to stay warm, but not burnt up? Or how about a guy who can run super extra far with a stick jammed in his foot, or the guy who stops walking to remove the stick? Or how about a big ass sabertooth tiger chewing on your ass? Would the painless victim have an advantage in a physical fight vs the victim who fears pain more then anything, so he runs away?

Now I'd say it'd come down to how long you need to stay alive to have kids, and the method of reproduction. Bit of pain will keep you alive in the long run, but a lack of it could keep your kids alive if you have to defend them. If you are actually a smart criter and know about long term consequences of what you are doing, and weigh them vs the short term risk, ignoring pain can be a good choice. Infact I bet ignoring pain is a key part of evolution, the weakest animals will just lay about in pain, while the big Chad animals will play though the pain getting more chicks. Thus passing on any sort of genetic bias for having pain. A painless criter could to fight longer and harder, but most likely die sooner because of it. So the trait selecTed for is ultimately having pain, but being smart enough to know when to ignore it.

Are you smart enough to know the difference between pain that will kill you and pain that will just hold you back?

askme
askme

@happy_sad
Bigger question is what's the evolutionary advantage of consciousness? Why didn't evolution make us all p-zombies?

SniperWish
SniperWish

@askme

Consciousness isn't a product of evolution. It precedes it. Evolution works with consciousness. It's pretty much a singularity's algorithm for achieving infinity.

FastChef
FastChef

@happy_sad
Are you talking about physical or emotional pain because they're two very different things.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@SniperWish
Just imagine, for one second, posting something this stupid - and revealing what a teenager you are in the process.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@happy_sad
Anxiety is easier to overcome and therefore is a lesser shield against stupidity

Inmate
Inmate

@happy_sad
You have to interpret anxiety. Pain gets an instantaneous response.

likme
likme

@askme
Consciousness wasn't produced by evolution, sorry bucko but your science will never explain it.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@happy_sad
read this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_insensitivity_to_pain
pain is pretty important

Methshot
Methshot

@SniperWish
kek, look at this fuckin hothead

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@happy_sad
The evolutionary advantage of pain and fear is obvious: you act in order to avoid harm or permanent damage even if you don't want so.

They may be animals which sit in middle of fire while doing nothing, other which would jump off cliffs etc. They didn't pass their genes, we descend from crybabies and cowards instead.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@happy_sad
I believe I saw you post a thread before. Sorry about the chronic pain, if that's what's going on. You will be changed, and I can't say you truly get used to it. Diet, exercise, and mindset are important for any possibility of reducing it to background noise. You begin to learn your patterns.

Best of luck.

girlDog
girlDog

@askme
Maybe that's same question? Negative feedback exists in non conscious things and when our ancestors evolved consciousness, that negative feedback get's processed as pain. Still not sure the value of consciousness though, maybe it's a social thing, like you select the most self aware mate?

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@askme
P-zombie exist as a concept to convince people into dualism. If you don't believe in souls, if you think everything is about matter, then P-zombies don't exist, which answer your question.

The concept of p-zombies has it that there is literally no physical difference between it and a non-zombie equivalent person. Hence the implication of materialism that p-zombies aren't a thing.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

What sort of brainlet 14 year old question is this? I want leddit cancer to leave this board

King_Martha
King_Martha

@girlDog
Consciousness has absolutely no evolutionary value.
while(alive)
{
if(stimulus1)
{
experience(x1)
do(response1)
}
if(stimulus2)
{
experience(x2)
do(response2)
}
...
xs can be literally anything (pain, pleasure, confusion, religious epiphany, nothing, doublepain), it doesn't matter what they are as long as the stimulus and responses match up in evolutionary appropriate ways.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@BlogWobbles
If getting mauled to death by a lion isnt the worst thing then you have less incentive to not let that happen.
Your adrenaline is through the roof to the point where you're not even really feeling pain

takes2long
takes2long

@happy_sad

People who lose function of their pain sensors end up losing limbs, through injury and then infection and gangrenous rot sluicing off at some point.

Be glad your body indicates pain.

massdebater
massdebater

@askme
Bigger question is what's the evolutionary advantage of consciousness? Why didn't evolution make us all p-zombies?

In my own theory, consciousness is just a byproduct of the continued development of our nervous system. Notice how it's composed of layers of new development on more primitive components?

I'm betting that our self-awareness is just a byproduct of overlapping signals, a total coincidence. There's no evolutionary impetus for self-awareness.

girlDog
girlDog

@happy_sad
Surely pain could simply be replaced with something less excruciating like anxiety and the end result would be the same?
It likely wouldn't and it doesn't matter if it did. Evolution isn't some omniscient, meticulous engineer. It just turned out that way and shit survived.

farquit
farquit

@happy_sad
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain_asymbolia

I'm hoping with enough meditation and self-discipline, I can achieve the state listed in that article.

Inmate
Inmate

@askme
@massdebater
Come on guys, think a bit harder.

What does evolution do? It allows for adaptation to an environment.

What do neural systems do? They record information about the environment, and allow for quicker adaptations to the environment. Even organisms that have, extremely small brains, such as c. elegans with a whopping 302 neurons, can learn how to respond to to electrical impulses in their water.

This pattern continues all the way up, and it becomes abundantly clear why we developed counsciousness. Our consciousness, working memory, etc does what evolution has always done - it allows us to build powerful (relatively speaking) models of the world, and adapt far, far quicker than all previous mechanisms.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@happy_sad
What is the evolutionary advantage of pain?

it lets you know when you are taking damage, and provides a powerful incentive to do something to stop it from happening.

Fairly simple, desu.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@happy_sad
anxiety
It uses almost the same circuits as pain. Amxiety is basically social pain

Illusionz
Illusionz

@likme
Consciousness wasn't produced by evolution,
specimen, who had a more developed prefrontal cortex had a notion of future and could trade short term loses for long term gains were more succesfull
positive feedback loop
There you go

whereismyname
whereismyname

@happy_sad
It is a warning system. Following pain the area afflicted gets a rush of blood flow following redness. This is your bodies targetted repair mechanism and why I let nature do the job.

:D

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@happy_sad
So that torture would be possible

Skullbone
Skullbone

@happy_sad
A lot of pain responses don't make it to the brain immediately and are handled by the spinal cord first.

Some things need the quick response time to minimize damage, like touching a hot stove.

Anxiety is more of your brain having learned some lesson from pain (real, imagined, yours or somebody else's) already.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Inmate
think a bit harder
no u
adaptation to an environment
What do neural systems do?
respond
adapt
Half my neurons are unconsciously handling blood pressure and whatnot behind the scenes already. Stimulus, response, no experiential awareness required.
What do the conscious ones have to be conscious for?

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