Can math prove that God exists?

Snarelure
Snarelure

Can math prove that God exists?

All urls found in this thread:
https://philpapers.org/rec/MIZWSB
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022103113001042
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism
https://tif.ssrc.org/2009/03/31/john-rawlss-religion/
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/07/16/what-percentage-of-prisoners-are-atheists-its-a-lot-smaller-than-we-ever-imagined/
https://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v27/n4/pdf/0802220a.pdf
https://www.prisonpolicy.org/graphs/genderinc.html
https://www.prisonpolicy.org/graphs/raceinc.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_canonizations
http://www.catholic-pages.com/dir/phenomena.asp
http://www.medjugorje.org/
BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

No.

Skullbone
Skullbone

short answer: No
long answer: God is not a Mathematical concept,
therefore cannot be proved nor disproved by
mathematical means.
Now gtfo back to Riddet.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

Does it even matter?
Not on a Veeky Forums board...

If he doesn't, then shit...
If he does, then shit...

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

hol up

massdebater
massdebater

@Snarelure
Wez rz Cheesus?!

Techpill
Techpill

@Snarelure
God seems like a convenient axiom to accept to enable a belief system to support it's desired conclusions.

Methshot
Methshot

@Techpill
God exists whether you like it or not.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Snarelure
Let "God" be what created the universe. Suppose God does not exist. Then the universe cannot exist, and neither could this proof. We arrive at a contradiction and conclude that God does exist.

5mileys
5mileys

@Sharpcharm
Wow user, you surely showed him right! Using a contradiction to prove your point and pulling shit out of your ass in order to hold your feeble logic! Great discovery , user!

w8t4u
w8t4u

@5mileys
Implying the serious scientists that unironically say the universe came into existence because "there was no laws of physics saying it couldn't at the time" aren't making an equally batshit retarded explanation to hold their bias.

massdebater
massdebater

@Sharpcharm
Why do you think something created the universe? Something can't come from nothing. The energy that makes up the universe has obviously always existed, it wasn't created by anything or anyone

hairygrape
hairygrape

@w8t4u
Sure user , sure , I would rather trust the Jewish zombie carpenter who seems to raise more controversy than any other individual instead of the people who dedicate their lives to becoming proficient in a field , work in teams or alone and come up with conclusions based on empirical evidence.
Admit it user, religion is a cool and hip thing but it's not a good indicator for what happened at the beginning of the universe.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@Snarelure
Which god?

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Snarelure
Which god?@hairygrape
religion is a cool and hip thing
Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha

Evilember
Evilember

@Carnalpleasure

I'd say 90% of the planet being religious makes it "hip." Sure they're literally forced to because they will be savagely beatened and murdered if they consider otherwise, but it's still "hip."

SniperGod
SniperGod

@Snarelure
If God isn't real, then why does 2+2=4?
QED, atheists.

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Snarelure
Most definitions of God either fail to exist by their definition or properties. For example, when someone includes 'supernatural' in their definition they are defining it as 'outside of nature'. However nature already encompasses all of reality, therefore supernatural gods do not exist. Furthermore, is a god that isn't possessing of any supernatural ability (because such doesn't exist) really worth calling a god?

If your neighbor Bob timespace travels back into the past and accidentally disrupts a perfectly entropic field of matter causing the universe as we know it to form, does that make Bob a god? No, he's still just Bob.

Worshipping matter biased muon particle decay would be more appropriate than worshipping any of the various concepts people call god. At least at some point, that matter might one day be included in a being that could reciprocate.

WebTool
WebTool

You can create a mathematical model where God exists using your own, arbitrary axioms. Similarly, you can write a fantasy novel where leprechauns exist.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Evilember
Sure they're literally forced to because they will be savagely beatened and murdered if they consider otherwise
Only about 1/7th of the world is Mudslime, user.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@Sharpcharm
conflating why with how

There's where your argument fell apart

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Sharpcharm
Look at all these triggered fedoras t
Raging at your simple and elegant proof by induction. Atheists are so silly.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Sharpcharm
Let "God2.0" be what created "God". Suppose "God2.0" does not exist. Then "God" cannot exist, and neither could the universe, and neither could this proof. We arrive at a contradiction and conclude that "God2.0" does exist.

TechHater
TechHater

@Snarelure
logic can prove an omnipotent god is impossible

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Nude_Bikergirl
GODel

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@Harmless_Venom
If God2.0 created God, then God2.0 would just bee God

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@Snarelure
Yes i can check it >∞

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Snarelure
No, only a god can do that.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Fried_Sushi
Why can't the universe create itself?

Axiom 0: The universe exists
Axiom 1: Things that exist must have creators

Somehow the universe cannot create itself but god can create itself?

God creating the universe is equally unnecessary as God2.0 creating God.

5mileys
5mileys

@Fried_Sushi

This. In reality there is an infinite number of Gods, all of them existing to create another God that both exists and doesn't exist at the same time.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Harmless_Venom
@haveahappyday
@5mileys
Atheists still have not grown out of this strawman argument
The difference between God and the universe is that, according to the most widely accepted hypotheses, the universe started to exist at some point.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@Snarelure
God is an axiom and therefore unprovable

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Emberburn
the universe started to exist at some point.
Since this violates causality it probably isn't true

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Snarelure
Why would a god be a separate entity from the universe. The universe is the sum total of everything, stop assuming you can see all of it

MPmaster
MPmaster

@Snarelure
Existence of God depends on how do you define it.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@Snarelure
WE

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Emberburn
according to the most widely accepted hypotheses, the universe started to exist at some point.
Christfags still have not grown out of this strawman argument

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Snarelure
The chance of me having a 13 inch penis is higher than the chance of god existing

Nojokur
Nojokur

@Snarelure

What is a "God"? To which "God" are you referring to?

One cannot prove the existence the Abrahamic God any more than they could that of Odin or Zeus.

It's like you aren't even trying.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@BlogWobbles
The issue with cosmogeny (is that the proper term?) is that you reach an unsatisfactory answer using modern science secularly and using modern religion theologically.

If you argue that the universe must have always existed because it violates causality to "start", then heat death paradox means either your premise is wrong or the laws of thermodynamics are wrong. Granted, it's completely possible that one or the other is, but you're no longer doing science if you discard current laws for your hypothesis.

And religiously you must ask what created God, though most religions indicate that God, being the creator of and therefor above nature, does not have the restriction of causality.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@hairygrape

Overwhelming belief in science is easily equally as retarded as religious belief if not more. The best non-religious creation myth is "¯\_(ツ)_/¯", and there is no underlying reasoning to encourage good behavior.

https://philpapers.org/rec/MIZWSB
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022103113001042

@Evilember

15% seems to be a fairly realistic estimate for the number of atheists, not counting those who do not believe, but simply identify as religious by default.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism

WebTool
WebTool

@SniperWish
The best non-religious creation myth is "¯\_(ツ)_/¯", and there is no underlying reasoning to encourage good behavior.
There is no evidence that myths of eternal reward or punishment actually encourage good behavior.
In fact, the myth of a forgiving god can actually encourage criminal behavior.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@WebTool
What about a society which has entrenched the idea that every human has value(and deserves an acceptable standard of living)? That is the legacy of Christian thought, and no matter how enlightened you might think an entirely rational society would be it doesn't have the fundamental belief that an individual human is valuable.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@VisualMaster
What about a society which has entrenched the idea that every human has value(and deserves an acceptable standard of living)?
Yes, moving away from religion has helped us become moral and just.
That is the legacy of Christian thought
No, exploitative capitalist systems reminiscent of feudalism are the legacy of christian thought.

If christians were the ones caring about value of every human, they would be the ones fighting for justice and equality, not ones who fight against it.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@AwesomeTucker
I chose that image for a reason, you seem to think that everyone who identifies as Christian to fit in is representative of the faith as a whole. If I had to guess, you probably have no problem accepting that the actions of various failed communist governments aren't representative of Marx's ideals.

Fundamentally, the core of Christian faith, and it's diversion from Judaism, is that every individual is worthy of salvation, and not just god's chosen. The prevalence of this in modern progressive thought is still a continuation of that ideal.

I challenge you to provide a rational train of thought which results in the conclusion that all humans should be valued equally(Rawls '“became deeply concerned with theology and its doctrines”, and considered attending a seminary to study for the Episcopal priesthood'[1], so he doesn't count).

https://tif.ssrc.org/2009/03/31/john-rawlss-religion/

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@VisualMaster
Sedevacantists

8/10, triggered.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@Ignoramus
I challenge you to provide a rational train of thought which results in the conclusion that all humans should be valued equally
Nah

Morality is subjective, but so far atheists manage to outdo christians when it comes to most of the common values, such as avoiding crime, "loving the neighbor", honesty, honoring promises or avoiding death related to hedonistic overindulgence.

Religion is like communism: on paper it looks amazing if all people just worked together for common good/greater entity, in practice it hasn't been shown to work yet.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Stark_Naked
but so far atheists manage to outdo christians when it comes to most of the common values, such as avoiding crime, "loving the neighbor", honesty, honoring promises or avoiding death related to hedonistic overindulgence.
Source on all those claims?

in practice it hasn't been shown to work yet.
I'd argue the growth of western civilization since Christianity reached Rome is pretty clear evidence that religion structures a society pretty well.

Methshot
Methshot

@Garbage Can Lid
Rome was growing perfectly fine without christianity.
Christianity significantly contributed to the fall of Rome, although for reasons less related to christian beliefs and more to the chaos the change caused.

As for the values: prison population is a great indicator of lawlessness of a group.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/07/16/what-percentage-of-prisoners-are-atheists-its-a-lot-smaller-than-we-ever-imagined/
in b4 shit source - they directly reference data obtained from Federal Bureau of Prisons near the end of the article.

Obesity is higher in religious (jews are fatter than christians, who are fatter than atheists):
https://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v27/n4/pdf/0802220a.pdf

Firespawn
Firespawn

@Nojokur
This is the post that always causes religiotards to shit their pants. Which god. Define the god. Fair questions. Reasonable questions. Good luck getting a straight answer from christfags.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Methshot
Rome was growing perfectly fine without christianity
But it wasn't on track to spawn intellectual traditions strong enough to survive the dark ages, and lead into the renaissance.

prison population is a great indicator of lawlessness of a group
So men are ten times as lawless as women, and blacks six times a lawless than whites?
https://www.prisonpolicy.org/graphs/genderinc.html
https://www.prisonpolicy.org/graphs/raceinc.html

Anyway, the clear argument here is that people in prison turn to faith when put in a high stress situation. That is a well established natural human reaction.

Obesity is higher in religious
Except for being lower in religious women, and largely P<0.05 for the men who were more obese before adjusting for "health behaviors". Each denomination also had a sample size of around 300, which is not that significant over the billions of people with opinions on god.

Again, show me an alternate way of reaching the conclusion that human life has value.

@Firespawn
The god of Abraham, who was made flesh through Jesus Christ, in accordance with the prophecies laid out throughout the Torah.

FastChef
FastChef

@Snarelure
Yes.
One need only look at LHS and RHS. The very balance of such a scale and it's proliferation throughout nature.

Your own body an input and output machine.

With a left and right hand.
This is the true meaning behind,

"...and I made them in my image."

Despite the fact that there are females and males.

The world is nothing but a math equation in motion and guess what? That requires a logical sense of construction. Constants, variables. Multiple relativistic speeds.

"Only man with his incalculable skill of logic has had the audacity to trap destruction and creation on nothing but a small piece of paper. Like a demon bound, the true secrets of the cosmos are held within."

JunkTop
JunkTop

@BlogWobbles
The god of Abraham, who was made flesh through Jesus Christ, in accordance with the prophecies laid out throughout the Torah.

All you need now is a shred of evidence for your god. The last 2000 years has yielded zero evidence. Your god is fake, mate. Don't be a sucker for your whole life. Grow up.

MPmaster
MPmaster

@JunkTop
Canonization requires two verifiable miracles as a result of the intercession of the individual, and it happens a fair bit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_canonizations

More specific list: http://www.catholic-pages.com/dir/phenomena.asp

There's Medjugorje for a modern set of apparitions, the seven from 1981 seem verifiable: http://www.medjugorje.org/

happy_sad
happy_sad

@MPmaster
verifiable miracles

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@BlogWobbles
But it wasn't on track to spawn intellectual traditions strong enough to survive the dark ages, and lead into the renaissance.
Baseless assertion
Anyway, the clear argument here is that people in prison turn to faith when put in a high stress situation. That is a well established natural human reaction.
This argument isn't used by any sensible sources. If it's clear, then it's clearly not good enough.

Again, show me an alternate way of reaching the conclusion that human life has value.
The idea that you should treat others like you want to be treated - it predates christianity and is a part of most modern moral systems whether they involved christianity at one point or not.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Snarelure
Yes, QM prove God is real. Check my youtube videos for more proof.

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