We live in an illogical world

FastChef
FastChef

Forget about the determinism and consciousness threads, how can something come from nothingthing. No I'm not baiting, abiogenesis doesn't count as even if you """""""""""""""""reproduce""""""""""""""""" something out of nothing doesn't mean it happened the same way back then.

farquit
farquit

@FastChef
how can something come from nothingthing
Quantum fluctuations.

Methshot
Methshot

@farquit
I think you're too much of brainlet to see the meta question, it still doesn't solve anything

Snarelure
Snarelure

@FastChef
you need to bend time and space

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@FastChef
Assuming there exists elementary particles and energy in nature, synergetics . I don't really get the confusion, have you studied complexity and emergence?
Explain the problem to me like i know nothing about it.

farquit
farquit

nothing isn't a physical state nor system, therefore it can't

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Stark_Naked
Assuming there exists elementary particles and energy in nature, synergetics . I don't really get the confusion, have you studied complexity and emergence?
How is that supposed to make sense, do you have any self awareness at all? Something couldn't just be, it doesn't make sense and its usually justified by people who find it difficult to see how impossible this world is.
@farquit
Exactly, we can't be

Nojokur
Nojokur

@iluvmen
Something couldn't just be
But it is tho

Booteefool
Booteefool

@FastChef
What is your point? Who is out there claiming that something came from nothing as we know It? The big bang theory posits that there was an object that contained everything and at the time of the big bang the laws of nature came to be, before then wasn't necessarily nothing, just nothing like the universe and laws of nature as we k ow them most likely.

I'm having a hard time understanding what your point of contention is.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Nojokur
Yeah in your retarded brain it can be
@Booteefool
What is so difficult to understand, it is impossible for something to be, it was created by something and that thing was created by another thing till you're left with with something coming out of nothing.

askme
askme

@haveahappyday
I dont see what your problem is. There are things, we know that for sure right? Are you trying to imply that the universe would have to be eternal rather than having any sort if "start"? If so then you can only make such an assumption based off of your interactions inside this universe with its laws, before the universe those laws were not in place and we don't know how it worked so it possible that something could have come from nothing at that point.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@haveahappyday
Wy are you so angry and inarticulate? Are you as Brainlet?

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@askme
Are you trying to imply that the universe would have to be eternal rather than having any sort if "start"?
I'm trying to say that both of those things don't make any sense.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@hairygrape
he can't comprehend simple concept but yet I'm the brainlet
Must be that reddit browsing that has completely skullfucked you.

Techpill
Techpill

@Poker_Star
How so? Why don't they make sense? Expound upon your point.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@Deadlyinx
Yeah, keep acting like a little mongoloid cunt. Really helps with your question of "how does it make sense that thing", you've done a great job of communicating your point. Fucking moron.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@haveahappyday
There is "something" though. So clearly it's not impossible.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Techpill
I already gave you an example, I'm getting tired of you. The first link is of nothingness and from it you can't have something. Something can't simply be, it has some beginning and the beginning of all things come from nothing and since you cant create something out of nothing the world is impossible.
@TreeEater
I'm not here to correct your poor reading comprehension, I thought people here could at least read a basic text but sadly was completely wrong.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@haveahappyday
If something exists then it obviously must be something. Nothing about reality existing claims that reality came from nothing. You claim that the contemporary understanding of nature claims that something came out of nothing. That claim isn't factual and is ontologically naive. The laws and truths that we abstract from the fragment of reality we can interpret tell us about things like the big bang, nothing there means something came from nothing, it just means that's true in our model, another user is already explaining this part to you better and I'm no longer interested

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@SniperWish
Wow you're autistic as fuck, good luck getting anyone to help explain anything to do. Kill yourself.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@SniperGod
Yes, I'm trying to say that you can't answer it logically. It is a question that doesn't require more information as the premise is impossible.

FastChef
FastChef

@SniperWish
Wow, just wow. You're a co plate moron, you cant understand even the most basic of concepts. If this is just go at I'll give you a solid 5/7

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@VisualMaster
Is pic related you, it must be
@FastChef
I tell him that he doesn't understand a basic concept and 2 reply's later he tells me that I don't just because
Are you ok, user?

whereismyname
whereismyname

@AwesomeTucker
Then why didn't you start your thread by saying "how is it that anything ever came to be without breaking causality" it's not my fault you can't ask the question you're looking for the answer to.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@New_Cliche
You're literally subhuman.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

Nothing cant generate something is only true in the current state of the universe.You cant apply the current laws and axioms to how the universe came to be.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@AwesomeTucker
premise is impossible.
The premise that something came from nothing? Why? What makes it impossible? Are you telling me you know what the rules of nature were before the universe? You should go talk to someone if you do, I'm sure that's a big breakthrough.

MPmaster
MPmaster

@whereismyname
how is it that anything ever came to be without breaking causality
It is clear that causality is broken and so your question is pointless
its simply
how is it that anything ever came to be
@Fried_Sushi
@Need_TLC
This is a basic logic test that doesn't matter if the "laws somehow changed". It makes zero sense to claim logic changed when the question is as bare as possible.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@MPmaster
This is a basic logic test that doesn't matter if the "laws somehow changed". It makes zero sense to claim logic changed when the question is as bare as possible.

Just go off youself now, I'm done.

Emberburn
Emberburn

You are caught up in words, user. "Something" and "nothing" are useful labels the physicists use to explain the situation to laymen easily. Even then the cosmological models used to make those explanations are just that, models. We don't know what was before the universe, we don't even know if that question makes sense. So to make semantic arguments against or for highly advanced cosmological questions is pretty pointless.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

Have you ever heard about Jesus?

takes2long
takes2long

bump

Evilember
Evilember

@FastChef
Why are you speaking of abiogenesis when you mean the existence of reality? Abiogenesis is just energy interacting and reshaping, like anything else, life is younger than the universe, and reality itself is either infinite or incomprehensible. Reality is something else entirely.

It doesn't make sense from our view, no, you keep reducing it and it just means that something has to come from nothing, right? Maybe not...maybe our view is flawed.

If something cannot come from nothing, then from this view (which again, may just be a result of our philosophy and biology, unable to adequately reason beyond), then we can only assume that there it is all infinite...or that some baser start-point is infinite, at least -- note that most of our physics are models of energy interacting, those models require energy and specific states, they're not some objective and eternal laws, in other words, "the big bang" isn't the beginning of reality, just energy states and corresponding mechanics, our universe. "Infinite" is pretty hard to comprehend if considering it literally/physically (i.e, not mathematically or some other such system). But what if there is no start or end to this baser thing? We can't reason that there isn't, not really, it breaks everything, especially natural intuition. So, what next? Ignore it and move on, accept that the baser thing is either infinite or has a nature even more incomprehensible to us. I don't think there is much more you can do, you can play with metaphysics and physics alike but you won't get anywhere, just delusion. Accept that the supposed logical contradiction of reality is a product of our reasoning. Reality and the universe do exist, so we can assume that it is actually logically-consistent in some sense (obviously not our own sense, likely beyond our capabilities).

Maybe you should try rethinking fundamental logic, to see if you can glean any possibilities of different logic.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@FastChef
something come from nothingthing
maybe notnot

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@FastChef
how can something come from nothingthing

God

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@FastChef
To me something coming form nothing is logical.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

OP's first baby philosophy thread
We have like two of this daily, OP. You're wrong. Get over it.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@Evilember
Thanks, finally a proper response, I appreciate it
@Deadlyinx
baby philosophy
Yeah it ain't anything like talking about quantifiers, it makes you so sophisticated

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@FastChef
Yes

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@FastChef
Maybe

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Spazyfool
You're fucking autistic, you know that's right?

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

Fee fie foe fum I smell the blood of a /his/torian shitposter.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@FastChef
When exactly was there nothing?

WebTool
WebTool

Something can come from nothing because of the interrelation from nothing to everything. If you define the ideological concepts of nothing and everything numerically, they would be 0 and Infinity. So speaking mathematically, if you understand the different sizes of infinity, an "everything" would be a different size of nothing (0). If you learn about the different sizes of infinity then you will inevitably come to the conclusion that 0 and infinity are actually one in the same, just the extreme measurements of an infinite numerical spectrum from our perspective- from "0 to Aleph null". Therefore, since 0 and infinity are the same, verbally it can be said that "nothing and everything are the same". Also therefore, "something" can come from "nothing" because it falls in between "nothing to everything". This is most likely a consequence of us simply seeing things as "things". We like to try and simplify the objective reality around us in such a way that we see patterns, and we call those patterns "things". Oddly enough if you delve deeper into this topic it shows exactly why mathematics is at such a crossroads when it comes to quantum mechanics and macro physics. Its because we can't seem to answer the question "how would be experience reality without the advent of concept of 'things'?" properly.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@cum2soon
If I call everyone autistic nobody would notice!!!1!

SniperWish
SniperWish

@GoogleCat
everyone
No, just you. You're the one going around being an unmitigated retard.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@FastChef
something come from nothing
The singularity is not "nothing" its a misconception brainlets make when they try to understand the big bang. The big bang is not an explosion from nowhere it is the result of the singularity that always existed suddenly expanding. Most idiots think the big bang is BOOM universe. No its more like "something" that is incomprehensibly dense and energetic slowly becomes to lose density then condense into what we call quarks then as those quarks lose energy they form the first building blocks of matter protons and neutrons, sometime around this period electrons were made by the leftover hyper dense "something". As time passed the matter stew lost more energy forming the first atom and molecule hydrogen from then on all of that hydrogen compacted into a mega star that exploded producing higher elements like helium and carbon then the leftovers from that initial explosion became the remainder of all baryonic matter in our universe right now.

when you realize black holes are mini universes if they were to suddenly expand outwards.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@SniperWish
accuses someone of being retarded but can't point out why
You're the one who is mentally deficient

WebTool
WebTool

In nothing, there is no space
No time, no mass, no energy
No change, no logic, no laws
No causation, no restrictions
How, then, could it be "impossible"
For something to happen
For no reason at all?

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@cum2soon

You have been indoctrinated by the religion of "theoretical" science - quarks, protons, neutrons etc are nothing but pure fantasy. The big bang theory is laughable, people who believe it are fucking crazier than fundamental Christians.

Everything you spout comes from nutjobs doing bullshit pseudo-science. Everything they do is non-physical, the complete opposite of science.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@FastChef
Let x_1 \in X be "something" (anything)
Let f : X —> X be the function that tells you where something comes from (e.g. f("matter") = "big bang")
By recursion it's clear you'll end up at nothingness, so I agree with OP. However, here's the fun part:
f(f) = ?
Remember the set X contains anything, even the posed assumption that "everything comes from somewhere". I'm probably not moving from ontology to the inner mind properly but I think it's an interesting extension of "nothingness" and if that question defeats/annihilate itself a priori.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@haveahappyday
Or you are left with an infinite past with no beginning, or our understanding of the action-reaction causal relationship of things is a flawed mental model. I agree it's weird no matter what though.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@FastChef
this is when you're supposed to take 350-500ug of lsd in the forest to figure this shit out

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Poker_Star
Think about how limited our brains are. The brain evolved for hunting and organizing small social hierarchies. Are you surprised that they can't fully comprehend the workings of the universe?

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

What if there was never a nothing?

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

real question from bainlet. How insanely unlikely are we to be alive when we are? Considering how long physicists and whatnot think the universe will survive, how did we get so lucky to be here at basically ASAP? We're only, what, ~13.7 billion years or something? Why aren't we 10 trillion years in the future? Isn't that the real reason we can't find a single sign of life? We are just so early? I mean, we are just so insanely early when you think about it.

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