So what actual evidence do we have that time "exists"?

Skullbone
Skullbone

So what actual evidence do we have that time "exists"?

Motion exists
Perpetual motion exists
Lifetime / Decay exists - yet it can be argued that this is some kind of transition, or reconfigutation
Aging exists, yet again can be seen understood as decay

It seems to me that periodicity is a more natural phenomenon in the universe. Is light really finite in its speed, and are we really able to slow it down to several cm/s ?

All urls found in this thread:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tests_of_general_relativity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C5pq7W5yRM&list=PLuo_6io8kHuUPQT-mttIclTmXDLj6rb3O&index=1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2ULF5WixMM&index=3&list=PLuo_6io8kHuUPQT-mttIclTmXDLj6rb3O
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_monopole
http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/tong/qft/qft.pdf
http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/tong/qft/qft.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO0r930Sn_8
https://youtu.be/KooPsEE7E-Q?t=1m5s
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/meh%E2%82%81-
SniperWish
SniperWish

@Skullbone
Those are all motion on larger/smaller scales dipshit.

TechHater
TechHater

@Skullbone
Light is a rate of an induction, not a limit. In fact you can even argue that light does not exist since all it's comprised of dielectricity and magnetism. Time cannot exist because it implies that it's relative to something. That something is nothing because everything is in motion, ALWAYS. There is no "stopping" in matter or motion which is why absolute zero cannot exist.

To create absolute zero would be to create a universe that doesn't exist. Nothing cannot come from something, therefore logically something has always existed. To reverse a never ending cycle would be the exact same thing as it was forward. Time and change are the same thing.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Skullbone
Time doesn't exist, that's the whole point. You're saying something like, "Does millimeters really exist?"

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@AwesomeTucker
more like "does length exist?"
And it's a good question

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@CodeBuns

It's an abstract concept of course, but it translates to physical reality 1:1, for example as wavelength.

But there is no experiment known to me that manipulates time, or is able to "visualise" it.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Dreamworx
what about scoring a candle in regular intervals of length and then lighting the candle
Then coming back later and counting how many equal lengths of candle have melted away?

hairygrape
hairygrape

@Harmless_Venom
How would that be related to time?

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@hairygrape
it would be a measure of time

Playboyize
Playboyize

@Poker_Star
What part of that is measuring time?

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@Playboyize
The intervals of candle

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Deadlyinx
So you're measuring a candle and not measuring time?

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Sharpcharm
you're measuring the change in a candle over time
you look at the candle because look at time, same way you can look at length directly

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Skullbone
So what actual evidence do we have that time "exists"?
Did you press "Post" before or after you typed your message?

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Emberburn
can't

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Emberburn
so time exists because things change and things change because time exists huh?

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@StrangeWizard
no, things change because time exists FULL STOP

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Fried_Sushi
and that is a belief of yours im guessing?

Booteefool
Booteefool

@Lunatick
yes, I also believe my belief to be an accurate representation of reality

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Booteefool
but you still havent manipulated or visualised time, you're just abstracting based on your own beliefs

MPmaster
MPmaster

@Boy_vs_Girl
How?

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@MPmaster
you're visualizing an abstract representation of time using the length of a candle please explain to me where you have visualised time itself

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Evil_kitten
But it's not abstract, if there was no time the candle wouldn't change length

idontknow
idontknow

4D worldline moving through 3D space.

I can wrap my head around that.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Evil_kitten

Idiot. You presume that to know something exists, you must see it. Yet we do not see sound, magnetism, gravity.

It's like you're trying to convince this poor user into forgetting truth's hold on this world. Like you're trying to discredit his knowledge with a charlatan's gambit.

StonedTime
StonedTime

Time exists because equations involving time and other measurable quantities can be confirmed by experiment in the real, physical world.
Time exists because it's a component of spacetime in relativity, which describes how gravitation works in the actual, real universe.
Time exists because you get fired if you show up late.
Time exists because I had to write this before you could read it.

You can ask yourself, "What is time?" But you can't say it doesn't exist.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@Emberburn
change in a candle over time
The time part being a numerical representation based on our spin around the sun
so what is time to the sun
and that
...and that

you look at the candle because look at time, same way you can look at length directly

Really, what does time look like? Is it a force that acts on something? Is there a weak and strong time force?

@Fried_Sushi
no, things change because time exists

No things change because it's acted upon by another change and so on. No different than pressure mediation

@Bidwell
If there was no CHANGE the candle wouldn't change in length.

@Carnalpleasure
We experience the effects of magnetism, sound and "gravity" and can reproduce them. How do you reproduce time? How do you experience "time" other than the revolutions around the sun and the change in your body's composition? The answer is simply change itself. Also pic related is a magnet under a ferrocell. Gravity does not exist by the way. And no I'm not presuming anything, try me.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@Fuzzy_Logic
You're right, let's rename "time" to "change" and call it a day.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@StonedTime

Time exists because equations involving time and other measurable quantities can be confirmed by experiment in the real, physical world.

So a species contrived language (math) and perception of measurements can prove tiem exists? We can't even see more than half the EM spectrum without machine that turn on and off really fast based on the frequency WE set.

Time exists because it's a component of spacetime in relativity, which describes how gravitation works in the actual, real universe.

This sentence is hilariously phoned in. The theory relativity has so many holes in it that it's no wonder they're starting to see "holes in spacetime" let alone believing gravity is anything other than dielectric acceleration .

Time exists because you get fired if you show up late.

This DEPENDS on who you work for

Time exists because I had to write this before you could read it.

You don't have to ask yourself if time exists, if you use simple logic you can deduce that it in fact CANNOT exist. Maybe if you could think FASTER and type FASTER and had a FASTER machine that could send your post FASTER, maybe it would be a huge CHANGE from your previous post.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Sir_Gallonhead
I used simple logic and deduced that you're insane.
/thread

5mileys
5mileys

@Carnalpleasure
You're an idiot, the 'poor anon' was replying to someone else who asked how to visualize time.
I am telling this user that his method doesn't allow him to actually visualize time, I said nothing whatsoever about the existence of time.

Stop being over emotional

idontknow
idontknow

@SomethingNew
He's wrong
does a /thread

Emberfire
Emberfire

@SomethingNew

I have no argument or retort to any of the "unconventional" thoughts that you have put forth because I am a "scientist" and that means I only believe what my C average professor taught me.

See the green areas in pic related? That is your stupid fucking gravity and if you actually believe that particles like electrons and photons exist then you're a fucking moron and it's no wonder you believe that an artificial human construct such as "time" exists.

It's not a force
It's not a modality
It does not affect ANYTHING
Everything is inertia and the loss of inertia only

Fucking deal with it. The only way you can describe time to me is through a unit of measurement or metaphysical newage garbage. "oh maaan it would be like so cool if we could like, reverse time. it would reverse motion and.. and, uhhh DIMENSIONS n' shiet".

askme
askme

@Skullbone
time doesn't really exist; change does. time is the measurement of change. time is just like another dimension such as length - you can measure it but the things you use to measure it are changeable, all dimensions are relative.

@TechHater
could you say when you die your consciousness is at absolute zero? could something go from existing to being in an absolute zero state?

Inmate
Inmate

@Fuzzy_Logic
can you please expand on the concept of gravity not existing? i dont understand

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Emberfire
math is a human construct, do you think math doesn't exist either? not trying to argue just curious

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@askme
also your consciousness went from nothing to existing... can something come from nothing?

or would this not count because your parents created you body, and your parents already existed... the real question is does your body create your consciousness or is your consciousness immaterial

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Emberfire
lol

FastChef
FastChef

@Inmate
@Inmate
see:
@Emberfire

That which you call gravity is just another aspect of magnetism that is overlooked. Many call it the "bloch wall" but it can also be called dielectric inertia. Inertia as in being inert, not moving, an IMPLOSION, the opposite of the toroid as it were.

The earth's magnetic mass is tangled and incoherent, but what makes it coherent is it's spin and the revolutions around the sun. The core of the earth is INERT that is to say there is "no gravity" because the mass around it is even. The surface is not as inert because it has the mass of both sides counter balancing and being effecting by the attraction of the sun. This creates a massive motion difference and causes the crust to spin and "keep the ether" churning as it were, a fast moving surface storing energy from a vortex like implosion of inertia. This would explain plate tectonics in it's entirety. The earth isn't burning shit, it's just creating a differential in pressure from the natural way nature works.

Because of the difference in permeability and permittivity of the incoherent materials in the crust and mantle, this "vortex implosion" becomes scattered and less coherent from the bloch wall being bent and warped, BUT it is coherent in that as a whole it is spinning around the sun. This creates enough of an equilibrium balance of attraction to affect every element that has paramagnetism, diamagnetism, and ferromagnetism (everything). But it isn't perfect as pic related shows.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@FastChef
well time to write up your paper and get that Ph.D

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@New_Cliche

Until the world realizes that Einstein was a fraud and that FTL travel does indeed exist, we will be stuck with transverse wave technology. Particles do not exist, they are merely another form of inertia and the loss of inertia (fucking magnetism and dielectric inertia). The last person to try and tell the world about this shit had all his stuff taken away from him by the FBI and Donald Trumps uncle help bastardize and flounder the technology into something it was never meant to be.

Perhaps it's the same reason they keep calling these spirals "failed missles". FTL travel is freedom and that is why it's suppressed.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Crazy_Nice
wow this actually would explain very much... did you come up with this yourself?

also are you saying that FTL travel does exist because mass doesn't exist? would this mean that matter and energy are the same thing?

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@TalkBomber
i just re-read it and realized that you said the first person to come up with it was fucked by the FBI

Snarelure
Snarelure

@VisualMaster
@TalkBomber

"matter" "particles" "corpuscles" whatever you want to call them is nothing but pressure mediation of inertia and the loss of inertia. No I did not come up with it, it was the combined effort of everyone that gave you electricity. Walter Russel explained it the best and his books were suppressed by the US government at some point. However they were probably released because enough of the population now believes in stupid THEORIES like the 4 forces being separate form one another, "light" being a thing that does something, and an obese atom/molecule somehow being responsible for the creation of nothing from something. Light is nothing more than a coherent effect of magnetism and dielectric inertia, a coaxial circuit if you will. The reason "FTL" travel cannot be utilized is because we do not fully understand counterspace aka the implosive inert nature that coincides with all magnetic fields.
A black hole is nothing more than a voidance of huge amounts of dielectric inertia, enough to suck in light and anything else with a magnetic field until it reaches its equilibrium and then...

It bounces back once the voidance is filled with enough magnetic energy to once again propagate a magnetic field of it's own. Often it is very violent and expels the LOSS OF INERTIA as "matter" in a magnetic vortex like manner. The dielectric component will now expel energy in the form of a coherent rotation and this vortex will move all the matter around until it starts to form planets. These will be locked in at their own distance based on their permettivity /permiability. This is why asteroids and ice chunks in the Oort cloud form in the same ares, it's why rings and moons are locked on planets.

And it must be so for such a system to logically exist. Why do you suppose galactic jets expel hydrogen? It is a recycle into the system that never begins or ends, it just changes.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@Crazy_Nice
Einstein was a fraud
General Relativity has been tested and validated to a pretty extensive degree by this point. Not sure what more you want out of it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tests_of_general_relativity

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@Snarelure
So, um... what's you're psychiatric diagnosis and why havn't you been taking your medication? Also, do you ever feel like harming yourself or anyone else?

Lunatick
Lunatick

@StrangeWizard
Things changing is time. The universe has consistent mechanics because the rate of fundamental changing (not some "object" but instead the fundamental forces and probably even deeper than them) is consistent.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Snarelure
it never made sense to me why the 4 forces would be sepereate from each other, you would expect them to be related somehow
regarding how the universe was created "obese atoms/molecules" etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C5pq7W5yRM&list=PLuo_6io8kHuUPQT-mttIclTmXDLj6rb3O&index=1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2ULF5WixMM&index=3&list=PLuo_6io8kHuUPQT-mttIclTmXDLj6rb3O

check out these videos if your interested, i actualy don't think this universe was eternal but actually had a set starting poing and was created by god and this whole universe is a simulation going on in his head or something, and when i say "god" im not talking about the way god is depected in any of the major religions, i think that god is so advanced we couldn't begin to comprehend what it is like

i know this sounds very crazy, but trust me i was an athiest until i saw these videos. they're very interesting. also there is sacred geometry, if you've never heard of it i suggest you check that out too.

regarding the Walter Russel books do you have any one that you would recomend me starting with? thanks for explaining all of this to me btw

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@Sir_Gallonhead
So a species contrived language
What do you think every thought and conceptualisation is?

MPmaster
MPmaster

@LuckyDusty
@LuckyDusty

Nothing is faster than light! Except for when light becomes slow when "not in a vacuum" or goes through glass or an intense magnetic field!
A true vacuum exists
A "black hole" somehow surpasses this magical speed of light and manages to "bend it"

So right there, relativity goes out the window since everything it's built on is based on light being a maximum speed when it has been recorded to change speed based on what it goes through.

Let me ask you something. How can something be a particle and a wave? A wave is what something DOES not what something is. So by saying it is something and something that does something seems awfully redundant.

What is the only thing a "particle" is compromised of that we know of?

Fields

Fields of INERTIA, and THE LOSS OF INERTIA. And if you're going to try to say that it's anything other than movement or change then you're retarded. All CERN is doing is smashing fields together and recording the mapping of what movement does. That's it! It's the equivalent of smashing two hammers together and seeing if they explode or not, then calling every iron chunk something completely different.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@LuckyDusty
this, posit something that has more applicability and robustness (as a model) or fuck off.

Inmate
Inmate

@MPmaster
first you're saying that gravity is just a hidden part of electromagnetism... now you're saying that particles are made of fields...
doesn't electromagnetism itself say that particles are made of electrons, protons, and neutrons?

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@Lord_Tryzalot
A derivative change, duh.

@Fuzzy_Logic
The diagnosis is inspiration and the medication is bismuth and neodymium magnets

@Crazy_Nice
"The universal one". Yes it is a bit metaphysical and unconventional for todays scientists, but believe it or not most scientists back in the 20's then believe in God.

Techpill
Techpill

@Skullbone

Time is an Archon.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Inmate
magnetism is nothing more than a coherent dielectric inertia and the loss of said inertia. What can you define a particle as exactly? If every particles weight can change depending on what medium it's in (IE a vacuum), then how the fuck are they different from one another in the end? It's all the same shit in a different quality

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_monopole

The N/S poles form instantly
Take an x length magnet
break it.

Holy shit you just broke the speed of light, fuckin' pressure mediation just kicked in yo'.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Emberburn
ok... then how would you explain how different elements have different properties if they're all the same in essence?

same shit different quality
isn't a quality what gives each thing its distinct 'thing-ness' to it?
just playing the devil's advocate cuz i'm curious

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@MPmaster
it's built on is based on light being a maximum speed
Speed of light in a vacuum, which you already alluded to in your first complaint so you're being pretty dishonest by deliberately leaving that detail out in this complaint.
And that aside you sound like a literal schizophrenic. Challenging very well established and tested theories is one thing, but calling Einstein a "fraud" and acting like GR is obviously broken because of your own inane strawman that it was somehow arguing the speed of light in a vacuum referred to the speed of light under any conditions with or without medium is just retarded. Given the unparalleled wealth of observational evidence of and practical applications for GR you need to do a much better job building up an extraordinary case for why some alternative model would be superior.

FastChef
FastChef

@AwesomeTucker
No no no what I said (sarcastically mind you) is:

A true vacuum exists

So how can the speed of light in a vacuum be constant if the fucking vacuum doesn't exist in the first place? There isn't a true vacuum anywhere! It can't be created, it is impossible from the standpoint of thermodynamics. What I'm trying to tell you is that QM and relativity are already wrong based on the two assumptions that:

a: Light's speed in a vacuum is constant (it is not)
b: A true vacuum existing in the first place.

A vacuum is nothing other than a large expansive voidance of magnetism so the placeholder to maintain these field is the Bloch wall. This distorts EM radiation and causes perturbations which you call light. If you think light is anything other than a difference in the EM spectrum and can function without dielectric inertia and magnetism then you know absolutely nothing about the nature of it.

Einstein gave you absolutely nothing other than a flawed postulate who's intellectual value stolen from Poincare, Maxwell , Oliver Heaviside and a few others. He even had his famous equation E=MC^2 corrected by electrical engineers that actually worked on inventions and gave the world the electrical grid. (Pic related, he was only here to visit and did not actually work with any of these geniuses).

See the deformed little man beside Einstein? That is Charles Steinmetz and you can thank him for begrudgingly phoning in the math that would make "E-MC^2" mathematically acceptable for the physicists at the time.

I don't have a to build a case against one that's already riddled with holes and flaws.

@RumChicken
You just answered your own question, but yes. All based on how the inertia and loss of inertia flows. Some "decay" slower, some faster. Some of their structures are aligned and coherent, some are not. All a magnet is is coherent Iron. You haven't changed anything about the structure of the iron other than you aligned the "atoms" strait and true like a laser.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@AwesomeTucker
Oh and here's another good one for you:

Why does light slow down in glass, but then speed back up when it leaves? Could it be that the the glass is a DIELECTRIC CAPACITOR of sorts?

Why do they have to use halbach arrays in a particle accelerator?

takes2long
takes2long

@FastChef
So how can the speed of light in a vacuum be constant if the fucking vacuum doesn't exist in the first place?
HURR HOW CAN CALCULUS WORK IF INFINITESIMALS DON'T EXIST?
Maybe it's possible to figure out how things work as they tend towards certain perfectly absolute conditions and the fact these perfectly absolute conditions don't exist in real life is a retarded complaint?
I don't have a to build a case against one that's already riddled with holes and flaws.
GR is probably the most extensively tested and observationally affirmed theory there is you schizophrenic pseud. You need to build a much more substantial case against it than "perfect voids don't technically exist and other preexisting ideas influenced it" if you want to even begin having the privilege of trying to challenge some of its specific details and having people not interpret your ranting as mental illness.
Though I'm pretty sure you're not in a position to publish an acaremic paper in the first place given how you're talking down to one of the most reputable and application rich theories there is as though it's somehow obviously trash. Any theory could have problems that haven't been recognized until now, but you're failing to understand that when a theory is extremely well tested and has yielded a wealth of practical applications then there is a very large burden on any would be detractor's part to explain why we should do the opposite of what all the evidence points to and throw out what's been working exceptionally well, and you should do so while demonstrating an appropriate degree of respect and recognition of the theory's exceptional good standing.
I'm honestly amazed you have so little self-awareness that you don't understand why shitting all over GR with inane autistic nitpicks about literally perfect voids and pretending it's common knowledge the guy whose name is synonymous with "genius" was secretly an idiot makes you come across like a poorly educated crazy person.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@takes2long

GR is probably the most extensively tested and observationally affirmed theory there is you schizophrenic pseud.

Magnetism itself is instantaneous action at a distance, (the le spoooooky action at a distance) I'm sorry if that upsets you so much. QM likes to balance out equations with things called "virtual particles" which in themselves do not exist. They are not the inputs or outputs of any experiment. It's like saying that unicorns exist and come from nowhere. That to me sounds a massive illogical psychosis.

Quantum Mechanics and General Relativity CANNOT explain what a field is let alone what a particle is. They have absolutely no empirical data or evidence to denote what a field is, an electron microscope can't even work unless the subject is coated with a CONDUCTIVE (usually gold) coating. Everything is fields and fields have:

No
Particles

Evilember
Evilember

@Fuzzy_Logic
And no I'm not presuming anything, try me.

How do you explain quantum computers

Gravity does not exist by the way.

Theoria Aphophasis pls go away

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Carnalpleasure
QM likes to balance out equations with things called "virtual particles" which in themselves do not exist.
fields have no particles

build a simple cloud chamber with some dry ice, take it to the top of a mountain, and you'll get some pair production/annihilation readings you retarded Theoriafag

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Skullbone
Like anything else articulated, it's another concept humans created, just like laws or fashion

Stupid and redundant question to be quite honest

RumChicken
RumChicken

@AwesomeTucker
take it somewhere where it will work better

Oh pressure mediation, gotcha. Thanks for proving yourself wrong.

@Evilember
I don't even know how they explain quantum computers.
We have this spinning "particles" and sometimes they flip a coin and get the right answer. Also they're much better for incredibly complex problems, but for everything else they're useless.

Also what does a quantum computer run off of ? Quantum glue? Strings? Oh right, magnetism and electricity.
I've built and reproduced some of his experiments, the man is right and certainly explains a magnet better than anyone else has. But don't let my words guide you, Go buy some bismuth while it's cheap and play around with some magnets.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@RumChicken
So when and where can I read your peer-reviewed paper in a science journal? Or even just on arXiv.org? Talk is cheap.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@GoogleCat
He can't get published because scientists are jealous of how clever he is and have conspired to suppress his work while promoting the obviously flawed theories of idiot fraud Einstein to keep the public from discovering the Truth about the faster than light travel ready starship he has in his parents' garage.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Carnalpleasure
Magnetism
instantaneous
Are you a time traveler from the XIXth century?

likme
likme

@kizzmybutt

Two ring magnets with like poles facing each other and compressed(or several series of compressed magnets in a series, a flat coil connected to power in between said magnets, centered around a bismuth/dielectric core and a copper reflector on top. The more acceleration you apply to the disk, the more the effects can be seen/felt. I am not claiming anything, but none the less you are welcome.

And I would not apply too much power if I were you, a watch battery is all you need.

@Sharpcharm

Once again, Time does not exist.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Skullbone
How do you define periodicity without invoking time?

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Snarelure
What is inertia?

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Harmless_Venom
a property of matter
BILL BILL BILL BILL

girlDog
girlDog

@King_Martha
What is matter?

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@likme
you are so fucking stupid it's hilarious. You speak like some twelve year old retard who just "came into enlightenment" about something shitty but doesn't actually have a clue about what is really going on. You understand so very little of the actual intricacies of what you speak of, but yet act like you are the all knowing high and mighty god of the subject and everyone else is completely wrong. You are the textbook definition of brainlet, and will forever remain as such, so long as you keep that attitude you have so graciously shared with us.

farquit
farquit

@Skullbone
Time dilation actually existing. If time didnt exist then nothing would ever change the actual speed of entropy in the universe not even light speed.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Sir_Gallonhead
ur dumb, u just don know how things work user. You act so high and mighty and that's bad, let me show you how little you are by acting high and mighty.

And the argument is where now?
Why don't you try to prove the existence of one fucking particle for starters.
I simply put down a list of material (relatively cheap mind you). I don't care if you believe me or not, that is the best part about being "enlightened".

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@RumChicken
take it somewhere where it will work better

I said mountain because it's easy access to stellar particles, you could put it next to a reactor for all I care

pressure mediation

no, looool no

@Carnalpleasure

Why don't you try to prove the existence of one fucking particle for starters.

you/Theoria have a fundamental misunderstanding of QFT

http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/tong/qft/qft.pdf

also Theoria has never full explained an understanding of magnetism other than "INERTIA IS A FUNDAMENTAL FORCE LMAO", that's not a satisfactory explaination of the phenomena

The more acceleration you apply to the disk, the more the effects can be seen/felt.

what the hell are you talking about

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@Sir_Gallonhead
@Sir_Gallonhead
So a species contrived language (math) and perception of measurements can prove tiem exists? We can't even see more than half the EM spectrum without machine that turn on and off really fast based on the frequency WE set.
uh, fucking EXACTLY?
if you can't accept time exists then you can't accept anything beyond human senses, which is completely asinine, because you'd have to reject electricity, magnetism, nuclear radiation, radio waves, even the center of the Earth
he theory relativity has so many holes in it that it's no wonder they're starting to see "holes in spacetime"
no one's seeing holes in spacetime you idiot
why am I replying to this?
this is taking AGES

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Lord_Tryzalot
was referring to a "black hole" which QM believes is a "hole in spacetime" or some other nonsensical shit.

So a species contrived language (math) and perception of measurements can prove tiem exists? We can't even see more than half the EM spectrum without machine that turn on and off really fast based on the frequency WE set.
uh, fucking EXACTLY?

Uh, so that is what we call a "technological limitation". Imagine the shit we'll come to realize once we start making perfectly coherent materials.

you can't accept time exists then you can't accept anything beyond human senses

I'm gonna stop you right there and say that is exactly the case. All you have to go by is your human senses so to say that time is force you can feel is retarded. I do not feel any different than I did 5 minutes ago other than the fact that your statement making me slightly confused. Time had absolutely no role in any of it.

which is completely asinine, because you'd have to reject electricity, magnetism, nuclear radiation, radio waves, even the center of the Earth

All of which is driven by one thing and one thing only and it sure as fuck isn't time.

@Fuzzy_Logic
take it somewhere where it will work better

I said mountain because it's easy access to stellar particles, you could put it next to a reactor for all I care

My god and you don't even see how you're destroying your argument

http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/tong/qft/qft.pdf

Wow! even the introduction of this books states that everything is fields and not particles. What are you doing mate?

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Flameblow
What are you doing mate?

you misunderstand what physicists mean by particles when they use that word

you also haven't clarified your simple cheap demonstration experiment? flat coils?
how thick? acceleration? give us some /exact specs/ and how to build this thing.

what is ONE NEW THING ken wheeler has built that proves your theories

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Flameblow
All you have to go by is your human senses so to say that time is force you can feel is retarded.
You seem to be the only person in this thread claiming time is a force.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@Skullbone
none, as bad as it sounds the nihilist in your sixth grade class was right time is a social construct. The universe will always go forward without us, time as we know it is probably complete bullshit to the universe.

also I'm just in high school but I am pretty sure that perpetual motion existing defies the first law of thermodynamics.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Flameblow
some other nonsensical shit refers to literally everything else underneath the umbrella of QM

idontknow
idontknow

decay of isotopes. it's the closest we can get to time and the closest we can get to random numbers

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@StrangeWizard
And yet people buy into it. Lets look at the distinct difference between:

Richard Feynman describing how a magnet works:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO0r930Sn_8

Versus Ken Wheeler:

https://youtu.be/KooPsEE7E-Q?t=1m5s

Notice how Feynman avoids the question and drones on about some lady slipping on the ice and other distractions on how to "understand things". Then he gives some bullshit answer saying that "it depends", but eventually he admits that electricity and magnetism is basically the same thing but he explain why because he genuinely doesn't know.

@AwesomeTucker
So if it's not a force and doesn't affect anything then it doesn't exist? Good to hear we're on the same page.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Gigastrength
So if it's not a force and doesn't affect anything then it doesn't exist?
Try actually understanding the subject you're arguing against.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Emberburn
@Harmless_Venom
@Dreamworx
Although time """ isnt measurable/real""" it is just as abstract as length.

The only reason we can measure wavelength is because we already have an arbatrary notion of length. The only reason we can measure time is because we have an arbatrary measure of time.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@Gigastrength
Notice how Feynman avoids the question
He was very clear as to why he avoided the question, the reason being you need to actually be in formal studies to have the background required to interpret anything he says about it correctly.
That's what pseuds like you don't get. You can't just self-teach topics like this, you will inevitably end up fundamentally misunderstanding everything about them because they aren't intuitive in a normal sense and depend heavily on mathematical nuances and context which you simply do not have.
The way you so casually and quickly shit all over one of the best, most reliable theories we have and inexplicably talk down to *Einstein* shows you do not have anywhere near the background or maturity required to take these topics seriously and have an opinion about them. Even if it were true that something were flawed in Einstein's theories, a non-pseud would actually recognize it's still been a blatant success by any metric and would explain how the flaw/s being addressed could have come up in spite of this blatant success.
You show a complete lack of awareness over this expectation and think it's reasonable to just skip straight to calling Einstein a fraud and characterizing relativity as transparently broken garbage. That's similar behavior to if you just started posting on /mu/ about how the Beatles were shit songwriters or on /lit/ about how James Joyce was an idiot. You're allowed to challenge reputable historical figures and their works, but if you don't address how everyone could have been collectively misled in such a major way then you rightfully end up looking like you just fell for some crank's meme pseudo-theory.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@TurtleCat
How can nothing affect something? That makes no sense. Try and describe time as something other than a recording, it's impossible.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@Stupidasole
How can nothing affect something? That makes no sense.
It makes no sense because you're asserting a bunch of nonsense.

Try and describe time as something other than a recording, it's impossible.
Time isn't a physical object with independent existence, like a chair or something. It's a measurable property of events.

As a really basic example: If I clap my hands a bunch of times, to uniquely identify each clap it's not enough for me to provide a latitude, longitude and elevation for each clap. I would also need to provide a time.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@Booteefool

Time isn't a physical object with independent existence, like a chair or something. It's a measurable property of events.

As a really basic example: If I clap my hands a bunch of times, it's not enough for me to provide a latitude, longitude and elevation for each clap. I would also need to provide a time.

@Stupidasole
Try and describe time as something other than a recording, it's impossible.

Look are we done here? I don't see how you're proving my point wrong. Providing a time has nothing to do with any of the events that transcribed in you clapping your hands. You simply recorded them.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Poker_Star
Providing a time has nothing to do with any of the events that transcribed in you clapping your hands.
The time that a clapped my hands is clearly an important property, if it's nessisary to distinguish between different claps.

You simply recorded them.
What? I didn't mention recording at all.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Carnalpleasure
The time that a clapped my hands is clearly an important property, if it's nessisary to distinguish between different claps.

no what distinguishes the claps is the air, the fat in you hands and rate you clap. Time DOES NOT control these factors.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Skullbone
So what actual evidence do we have that time "exists"?
Ask me again tomorrow.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@TechHater
sounds like you just mind fucked yourself. crap sound is a wave
wonder if its like a theta wave that is the start of a rem sleep cycle. holy shit now you passed the stupidity on to me... im the next hilary!

Evilember
Evilember

If time isn't real, velocity, acceleration, jerk, snap, crackle, and pop isn't real either. They all use units of time.

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Crazy_Nice
no what distinguishes the claps is the air, the fat in you hands and rate you clap.
None of that necessarily distinguishes two claps.

Time DOES NOT control these factors.
I didn't say it did.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

Space and time are connected right? So without space, time wouldn't exist. Time is a measure of change in space.
For example, before I ate this apple, it would have to be grown on a tree. Before I cut my hair, it grew out first.
The units we use to measure time is arbitrary but necessary. I can make a new unit right now. But in order to do so I would have to make in relation to space. For example, light travels from point A to point B, say, 1 million times. Every time light does this, a new unit of time called X passes. There are now 100 Xs in Y. and 100 Ys in Z. It takes 11 Zs to get to work in the morning. See what we've done?

Did I miss anything? Correct me if I'm wrong. But this way it makes sense to me.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@Crazy_Nice
rate
Time DOES NOT control these factors.
Please define the word "rate" without making any reference to time.

5mileys
5mileys

@TurtleCat
Space has no properties, you can't measure a change of nothing. Y

9297618
A ratio between two or more things while using a scale to translate said ratio into something we can understand.

How fast are you clapping your hands compared to:

the rate of your heatbeat
the spin of the sun
How fast a retarded monkey can clap his hands
[insert next reference point here].

Again time has nothing to do with rate. You are simply comparing rates to another rate to another rate using units of measurement that we've conjured up meaning to. Even atomic clocks need to be adjusted. You can go compare it to something infinitesimally small or incomprehensibly big it makes no difference.

the only thing that changes rate is pressure mediation. The only thing that has changed about out technology is that it's become more coherent and precise because we have been mastering how to MEDIATE PRESSURE. TIME IS A POSTERIOR ATTRIBUTE WE GAVE TO IT. If time exists then what is times final form? What unit of measurement of time can we plug in that will magically predict when something will happen and will ALWAYS produce the expected results of an experiment? The answer is nothing because it doesn't work that way.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@5mileys
How fast are you clapping your hands compared to:
the rate of your heatbeat

Defining rate as a rate compared to a rate
That obviously doesn't work as a definition. You need to define it in terms of something other than itself, like in terms of, I don't know, TIME?
Also you used the word "fast." How exactly can you measure velocity without time?
The fact time is relative is not at all the same thing as time not existing.

RavySnake
RavySnake

@BlogWobbles
That obviously doesn't work as a definition. You need to define it in terms of something other than itself, like in terms of, I don't know, TIME?

And that's the joke. Time is a descriptor in and of itself. There is no "explination" to what causes it because NOTHING causes it. It DESCRIBES, DESCRIPTIONS OF SOMETHING ARE NOT THEIR OWN THING.

The fact time is relative is not at all the same thing as time not existing
So if it's relative to something doesn't that mean what it's relative to doesn't run on time, meaning that time is not a thing in and of itself?

What happens if the sun suddenly becomes twice as big? The time it takes to make a revolution changes, but that description only comes AFTER the event occurs, not with it.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

This is really a non-argument and some of you here acting all deep and mathematical about it are pretty much on par with a "but what if we're all seeing different colours" level of depth.

So time as a concept doesn't really exist. Hey good job. Nice thought. But things happen and they don't un-happen.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@RavySnake
a thing in and of itself
Nothing is a thing in and of itself.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

Always remember "measure" comes from the word "Maya" which means illusion

Lunatick
Lunatick

@5mileys
Space has no properties, you can't measure a change of nothing
While you could say "matter", There's no such thing as "nothing". Space always includes "something" in it. So space=matter

Inmate
Inmate

@Lord_Tryzalot
@Flameblow
@Lunatick

Basically yes.

@BlogWobbles

Extremely yes.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@BlogWobbles
@Inmate
No it doesn't.

In other words, meh.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/meh%E2%82%81-

Booteefool
Booteefool

@Fuzzy_Logic
If time prevents everything from happening simultaneously.
If you have long candle and short one will end LATER. Time allows casualty.

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