2017

>2017
>Non sa leggere in italiano

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=isgydm69YLE
youtube.com/watch?v=Zru3PakNEPE
youtube.com/watch?v=rTeObJmb7hQ
youtube.com/watch?v=3HDYSxX7DvM
youtube.com/watch?v=5FO2KD7CDFI
youtube.com/watch?v=X3IjHsENad8&t=1203s
youtube.com/watch?v=vxGWvAhqsrM
youtube.com/watch?v=w6Fw6q-no9k
youtube.com/watch?v=JA8lR8YzJOI
youtube.com/watch?v=h645t0hOc-Q&list=PLg4aSwO3XsLtVQYNYiT8qiCxN9sOW4rSh
youtube.com/watch?v=nZ-b2PW8orc&t=1s
youtube.com/watch?v=tXDCHxP7gec
youtube.com/watch?v=yWhhtYSpCIY
youtube.com/watch?v=QOjSS9s6MQQ
youtube.com/watch?v=NlJRpbFu_Sg
youtube.com/watch?v=2iUGfURqyhs
youtube.com/watch?v=US-oBklKyy8
youtube.com/watch?v=tXO2QtjixaM
youtube.com/watch?v=bufPR-Up7hs
youtube.com/watch?v=7ob_fgO_hJk
youtu.be/kixquGybTmg
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Veramente imbarazzante

>posts Dante
>who didn't even write in italian
Italian has no books. Go read your shitty Ecos and Calvinos

Does double-sided count? I get the general all idea of what's going on.

Any italian could read Dante without a dictionary.

Try better next time.

Hai la testa infestata di meme, cerchi romanzi postmoderni in Italia, cosa che non troverai mai perché l'Italia è sempre stata superiore a quella merda. Peccato.

Of course it counts! That's the way I do when reading german poetry.

Any non-italian could too

I'm so sorry your shit language is so poor in literature. Hey, at least architecture is good, right? As long as it's not being wrecked by earthquakes

I have been studying italian to the point where I feel comfortable reading newspapers in the language, and even messaging qts on interpals. But, why is it so fucking hard to find literature and contemporary music in italian that is not complete shit?

>Any non-italian could read Dante without a dictionary

ooh boy not gonna take this bait

>why is it so fucking hard to find literature and contemporary music in italian that is not complete shit?
Why does this nonsense opinion spread out all over? Tell me what genre do you like and I'll name a god-tier author for you, since you're not able to find them by yourself.

>Why does this nonsense opinion spread out all over?

People from Veeky Forums doesn't know nothing outside the english-spoken world. This is an english website after all.

youtube.com/watch?v=isgydm69YLE

watch Sorrentkino

Not this user but
>early 20th philosophy
Pls

youtube.com/watch?v=Zru3PakNEPE

I know, bro. But there's more to it than that. People from Veeky Forums has a weird fetish for postmodernism and autistic philosophy, which is exactly everything Italy has NEVER been. Italy is the homeland of poetry, theatre, short stories, folk tales and unsystematic philosophy.

Right-wing or left-wing?

ke berga

baka onestamente famiglia

There is Agamben. And it is a well now fact that Veeky Forums (in general) also doesn't know that much about poety, not to mention theatre. So either way we're fucked.

Gramsci, Gentile, Bobbio, Abbagnano and Preve.

In general Italy has a strong existentialist, traditional Marxist and, in a few cities (the most important being Turin), analytical tradition.

Also check out the big names of XX century poetry: Montale, Saba, Ungaretti and Uasimodo are fairly easy to understand while being absolutely Elder God-tier.

In general: stop being such a fucking retard. Do you really think that fucking Italy has no good literature? You miserable philistine

Have you even read Leopardi?
What about Calvino, Buzzati and Primo Levi? Or the political philosophy of Gramsci?

Indeed. Man I've been reading Italian poetry of the 20th century for the past 5 years and I'm still not satisfied, I really can't get enough. If they only knew.

>Buzzati

I'm pretty sure that Il Deserto dei Tartari could become a Veeky Forumscore book. Truly the ultimate existentialist novel.

>Italian has no bo-

It's good? If you convence me I buy it now.

>In general: stop being such a fucking retard. Do you really think that fucking Italy has no good literature? You miserable philistine
As I said, not this user, but ty

It's one of the first european existential books. It doesn't use any of the classic existentialist stereotypes and topoi.
It is intense, crushing, deeply depressing and masterfully crafted. At the end of it you will know for sure what it feels like to have wasted a life. It's probably the best magnification of boredom, routine and alienation in the Italian language.

Give it a try, you probably can finish it in 6-7 hours.

Take a look at this list, kids

youtube.com/watch?v=rTeObJmb7hQ

thank me later

just... why?

>平成29年
>日本語が読めない

I like Calasso's Essays, particularly his exposition of what he calls Absolute Literature, and have read all his books-- Kasch and Tiepolo being the ones I enjoyed most. And yet I see nothing on either the Italian lists or in the English commentary. What gives?

>on either the Italian lists or in the English commentary
what do you mean?

Why I Neverland Gear people talking about Gozzano?
Help is top tier and l'esser known porta.

what did he mean by this?

Gozzano is great btw

What I mean is that I like Agamben (for instance) well enough (esp. his books of a religious cast) but ultimately he's an exceptionally dense (in a good way) plodding and super-autistic writer. Calasso, on the other hand, combines levity and depth-- is a writer-critic theotetically (in his use of theory) VERY MUCH like Harold Bloom in America, though beginning with a very different premise. Both, for instance, encourage classical reading, AND have designs on the future. Agamben, though not paraded IN THIS THREAD, is positively mentioned, and appears on the list of National authors supplied in one of the posts above, but I've yet to see even a mention of Calasso, other than my own. I think he's a wonderful author-- that's all I mean. What is his status in Italia? Curious.

>proceed to post examples of shitty italian music

Lol I mean, what the fuck? Is all contemporary music in italian pop? The only artists from italy i have on my ipod are articolo 31 and they are alright, and le orme, but it's more instrumental than anything. Other than that, I like 21 grammi by fedez, but nothing else, man.

Help me, for real, I want to find real nigga shit to bump in the car.

My favorite authors in english are Faulkner and O'Connor. I enjoy stories centered around the lives of marginalized groups of people. Other than that, I enjoy the tradition of latin americans from the mid 20th century, i.e. literature based on telling the gringos to eat a fucking dick and attempting to educate the masses on the evils of the yankee lifestyle.

I learned english three years ago, faggot. In spanish, you have a wide array of literature going from god-tier with cervantes to shit-tier with isabel allende. Also, every country has their literature scene dating back hundreds of years. This might be due to the fact that more people speak spanish then italian, but I thought that italy would be at least at the level of the french, which to be honest it is because dante wrote better than any other human in history, but only him.

I have watched all of his films.

Well if your mother tongue is a romance language than you have no excuse to be this dumb about italian literature. Go fucking read and extend your borders, faggot.

Portuguese speaker here.

You should include Petrarch with Dante, at least. And I'd even include others--

Mi fa male leggere certe cose desu

Like who, nigga? italo calvino? umberto ecco? I was told this is pretty advanced italian, I'm looking more for what italian students read in grade school.

Ho provato a leggere Il Principe e non ho capito niente.

t. imparando l'Italiano per due anni

All literal whos besides Agamben, Vattimo, Croce and a couple more

>chi è leopardi

lit non deludermi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't know about prose but if you're into poetry (esp. 20th century) then italian poetry is really a joy to dig into. Only english/american poetry can match it.

>your shit language is so poor in literature
Nigga you fucking wot

Tell me poets, then, please.

>Gramsci

Why are Italian commies so based?

>Labriola
>Bordiga
>Damen
>Panzieri
>Tronti
>Negri
>Novatore
>Filippi
>Malatesta

>not even remembering Eco
Fucking pseuds

>goat tier
Ungaretti

>good tier
Pavese
Pasolini
Quasimodo
Montale
Saba
Cavalli
Gozzano
Rebora
Sbarbaro
Rosselli
Sereni
Caproni

and so on. I recommend you to buy a good anthology.

fuck you, just because I can't speak it doesn't mean I don't understand what you're saying

leggere means to read, imbecile.

>I'm looking more for what italian students read in grade school.
Anthologies of the stuff listed in Bloom's Western Canon, honest. Including these for the more recent poets: >Why are Italian commies so based?
Plenty of partisans fighting the fascists and nazis were communists (your pic very much related), the reds were a sizable influence on Italy becoming a republic, its new constitution, later Italy had the biggest communist party on "the Western side" of the Berlin Wall.

But they weren't run of the mill vanilla commies either. Even sellouts like Togliatti advanced some interesting new theories.

>2000
Valerio Magrelli
Elisa Biagini
>late 1900
Eugenio Morelli
Nanni Balestrini
Edoardo Sanguineti
Vittorio Sereni
Bartolo Cattafi
Silvio Ramat
Giovanni Giudici
>first 1900
Montale, Pavese, PPP, Zanzotto, Quasimodo, Ungaretti, Saba, D'Annunzio, Marinetti, Gozzano, etc. There are too many

Ok man, make yourself comfortable, I'm going to answer all your doubts.

1/2

>music
The second user () was just memeing, because that is utter shit and I didn't even know it. But you can't be disappointed with . Fabrizio De André is the greatest songwriter Italy has ever had, and since we're on a literary board, just know he's often regarded as a poet. You can compare him to Bob Dylan, with the only exception that De André was smarter. I'm not joking. David Byrne appreciated him a lot. He was able to bring up the tradition and assert it over the shitty pop/rock landscape of the 60s and 70s. That's why you heard religious chants in the song posted by the user above. His lyrics are similar to folk tales, but smart and refined. He was an anarchist, he was based as fuck. Also, a beautiful and deep voice. Just close your eyes, listen to this album and indulge to the melancholy for its whole duration.
youtube.com/watch?v=3HDYSxX7DvM

Another top-tier singer is Lucio Battisti. He's pop, yeah, but you won't regret it.
youtube.com/watch?v=5FO2KD7CDFI
(it starts pretty meh, but wait for the refrain and focus on the melody insted of on the language)

If you don't like pop, anyway, tell me what you want to listen to.
>alternative rock?
youtube.com/watch?v=X3IjHsENad8&t=1203s
>progressive rock?
youtube.com/watch?v=vxGWvAhqsrM
(to be honest there are hundreds of Italian prog masterpieces out there, just dig)
>punk?
youtube.com/watch?v=w6Fw6q-no9k
>hardcore punk?
youtube.com/watch?v=JA8lR8YzJOI
>indie shit?
1) youtube.com/watch?v=h645t0hOc-Q&list=PLg4aSwO3XsLtVQYNYiT8qiCxN9sOW4rSh
2) youtube.com/watch?v=nZ-b2PW8orc&t=1s
3) youtube.com/watch?v=tXDCHxP7gec
(this last one even mentions DFW)
>weird stuff so you can act like a true patrician on /mu/?
1) youtube.com/watch?v=yWhhtYSpCIY
2) youtube.com/watch?v=QOjSS9s6MQQ
3) youtube.com/watch?v=NlJRpbFu_Sg
(this last one is about a book by our great poet Edoardo Sanguineti)

2/2

>books
>stories centered around the lives of marginalized groups of people
You could try Giovanni Verga (I Malavoglia and Rosso Malpelo), Pier Vittorio Tondelli (Altri Libertini) or even some porn shit (but actually good) like Porci con le Ali by Rocco & Antonia

>poetry
>Dante, but only him
This is a cringe opinion, really. Have you ever read Petrarch? He's the greatest love poet of all times. Tasso, Ariosto, Boiardo? They're all amazing epic poets, if you like Homer or Virgil you should definitely check 'em out. And then Leopardi, Foscolo, Pascoli, Carducci, D'Annunzio? But let's even get over the canon. The second half of the 20th century is full of great Italian poets. Three names above all: Emilio Villa, Vittorio Sereni, Franco Fortini. You can easily find pdfs with their poems online.

BTFO
T
F
O

Along with Evola, Gramsci and Eco (that you CAN'T leave out) they're already more than six. More than six great philosophers in a century is not bad. Germany in the 20th century had like two or three great philosophers, not more.

>he hasn't read Zang Tumb Tumb
listen to opera, don't bother with popular music.
>People from Veeky Forums has a weird fetish for postmodernism [...] which is exactly everything Italy has never been
What about Eco and Calvino? Certainly less meme-y than DFW, but Se una notte d'inverno un viaggiatore is still very po-mo.
>I'm looking for what italian students read in grade school
Apparently it's just Dante and Manzoni. Don't fall for the meme of I Promessi Sposi, I think it may be one of the most boring novels I've ever read. There were a grand total of 3 chapters in it that were actually worth reading.

You do know that he is Romanian right? Here are some more classics if you're interested:
youtube.com/watch?v=2iUGfURqyhs
youtube.com/watch?v=US-oBklKyy8
youtube.com/watch?v=tXO2QtjixaM

>What about Eco and Calvino? Certainly less meme-y than DFW, but Se una notte d'inverno un viaggiatore is still very po-mo
True, but they were exceptions.

I remember a post I wrote a week ago in which I was replying to an user who asked me something about 20th century's literary movements in Italy. Do you mind if I post it, since I saved it on notepad?

Why are you asking me lmao, go for it my man

Well, Dadaism and Surrealism, along with Futurism, Simbolism and OuLiPo, are usually described as Avant-garde movements, especially confined to the first half of the 20th century, and they're characterised by the presence of a specific manifesto under which writers were grouped together. Movements of the second half of the 20th century are not that strictly defined and well organized, and sure as Jesus they're not ideological. That said, take Italy for example (since I'm Italian and I'll speak for my country): Neorealism is widely known as a film movement, the best of Italian cinema, but that's incomplete. Few people know that Neorealism was primarily a literary movement risen from the scenery and the living conditions of the post-war period, which, in Italy in particular, was devastating and unprecedented. This historical moment, following the madness of Fascism, Futurism, and the experimental vitality of their art, spawned a new drift towards realism - so, I would say, the opposite direction of Postmodernism. The vast majority of Italian novelists from the last century were related to Neorealism, and Calvino, later to become close to the postmodern experiences, was at first one of them. Pasolini, possibly the biggest literary genius of the Italian 20th century (and totally neglected overseas except for his movies) was a realist writer. He developed a personal thought throughout the political scenery of the 60s and 70s, criticising the shift from a fascist power to an even worst capitalist power; he wrote about the language of advertising, of television and youth trends. His novel Petrolio (Gasoline) is probably somehow postmodern, but still very different, in the approach and in the form, than the American novels of the same period. Other authors wrote monumental and winding books that could stay on an equal footing with tomes like Infinite Jest and Gravity's Rainbow - I'm thinking about Arbasino and D'Arrigo in particular, which, unfortunately, have not been translated into English yet, due to the huge volume of their work - but their intentions were quite divergent from those of Wallace or Pynchon (i.e.: more actual and current reality, less mental masturbation). And then you have poetry. Montale is the closest one to the modernist idea of poetry (he's often matched with Eliot for his use of the objective correlative), but otherwise you see completely different tendencies, compared to other countries: Italy had Ermetism (similar to Minimalism but better), Crepuscolarism, Expressionism, Gruppo 63 (also known as Neoavanguardia, literally "new vanguard") and so on. A lot of stuff still to be discovered and treated.

>stato sociale
DROPPED
D
R
O
P
P
E
D

WTF

WHY DID YOU SAVE IT

What are you talking m8? I saved because it is a well written post.

Yeah it's pretty cringe but they had some talent at the beginning

t-thanks, I'm impressed

btw have some patrician italian prog
youtube.com/watch?v=bufPR-Up7hs

neorealism as a postwar cinematic movement in response to fascism is a bit of a meme anyway, you can watch plenty of films from the 30s which, if you didn't know when they were made, you would say were neorealist.

Zang Tumb Tumb is ante-litteram shitposting

True, but that's because Italy itself is "neorealist" in some sense of the word. The proximity to everyday life, to the actual experience of the world is never absent in Italian literature, even when it comes to philosophy.

Nice, thank you

Why is Pasolini a friend of Pound anyway? That fucking facist

>is
I meant 'was' ofc.

I always wondered the same to be honest

I think a sizeable portion of Marinetti's life was dedicated to sophisticated shitposting.

I find this to be very true. It's a trait of italian literature. Even Dante's Inferno is very plastic and material in its descriptions and situations

Exactly

>Even Dante's Inferno is very plastic and material in its descriptions and situations

but he needs to. its one of the seven (or five, I don't remember exactly lmao) rules of mnemonics.

Balestrini was one of the first "electronic" poets of the world. Cool, isn't it?

Beucase Pasolini is an hack. Like every other writer of the time, he is just surfing with the prestige he gets from the world war sufferings.

He was living an artist's life. His books and plays were often political, his life wasn't.
He was more concerned about hanging out with the most interesting personalities he could find rather than getting stuck in a left-wing echo chamber.
By the way the same applies with most intellectuals of the past century, especially the ones who lived in Rome, Milan and Turin. I guess that the need of being a socialyte is encoded in the italian spirit, very few of our greater artists and writers were loners.

>very few of our greater artists and writers were loners.

Name a few that were.

>very few of our greater artists and writers were loners
Tommaso Landolfi and Guido Morselli are two names that come to my mind
They'd be Veeky Forumscore if they were translated

Petrarch, Tasso, Leopardi, Saba.

Pasolini's fame peaked between the '60s and the '70s. Those were serene if not prosperous years for Italy, there wasn't that much suffering going on.

Also I wouldn't say that he was a hack: his output was extremely original, his craft was excellent (especially in his theatrical works) and (but this is just my opinion) one could say that he has always been sincere, both in his public life and in his books/plays.

You may not like him, but he does not deserve your hate.

Foscolo maybe? Even Leopardi had friends when he managed to get away from his oppressive homelife

...

What did Foscolo do all his life? He was great but he left few works. Did he read all the time?

>weird stuff so you can act like a true patrician on /mu/?
Literally where the fuck is Gruppo di Improvvisazione Nuova Consonanza?

youtube.com/watch?v=7ob_fgO_hJk

What do you mean with electronic?

Leopardi had only 2 friends (and both of them talked shit about him behind his back). There have been bery few writers in history that have been as lonely as Giacomo. Also he certainly was bipolar. In certain letters to his father he describes to a great extent his symptoms, one hundread years before the first formalization of the illness. He described the manic and depressive phases as waves of despair.
>tfw

Foscolo lived a intense social life in his youth, retreating in absolute isolation in past his 30s. Unlike Leopardi his choice was deliberate: he was probably clinically depressed.

An American living in northern Italy here...for the past six years. A record shop owner from Istanbul turned me on to the cramps label. I'm hooked to say the least...great thread. Here's my contribution:
Andrea Tich:
youtu.be/kixquGybTmg

And writer:
Vitaliano Trevisan
I quindicimila passi. Un resoconto

>His books and plays were often political, his life wasn't.

i.e. hack.

is Giovanni Lindo Ferretti the most Veeky Forums musician?

Thanks.

He used a prehistoric software to write Tape Mark, which is basically a collection of poems written by said software using different combinations of a few groups of words