How well does the "If time travel were ever invented, we would have met time...

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

How well does the "If time travel were ever invented, we would have met time travelers by now" hold up?

I mean, there has to be a first pass through of time in the first place right?

All urls found in this thread:
https://www.space.com/28000-physicist-kip-thorne-wildest-theories.html
https://www.amazon.com/Gravitation-Charles-W-Misner/dp/0716703440
ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@TurtleCat
How well does the "If time travel were ever invented, we would have met time travelers by now" hold up?
It's only 50% true, since it assumes it's possible to time travel into the past, but it's possible that it's only possible to time travel into the future.

FastChef
FastChef

@ZeroReborn
How could I take Veeky Forums seriously till now ...

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@ZeroReborn
but it's possible that it's only possible
Ffs, user...

massdebater
massdebater

time travel isn't possible, neither is FTL, also the universe is deterministic and copenhagen is wrong

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@TurtleCat
General Relativity permits time travel. Theoretically.
https://www.space.com/28000-physicist-kip-thorne-wildest-theories.html
No one on Veeky Forums is competent to argue with Thorne.
There are variations on this, mostly involving massive rotating objects.
But they are all equivalent to "time tunnels". Go in one end, come out the other in a different era, past or future depending on the direction you went.
But you can't go back to a time BEFORE THE TUNNEL WAS CONSTRUCTED.
So we have no visitors from the 34th century. But as soon as one is established in the 26th century, historians and reporters from the future will pour out of it, each eager to be the first to interview the inventor.

Other physicists, like Hawking, believe there is some as-yet-undiscovered law which forever prohibits time travel. I (and most physicists and maybe Thorne too) think he's right.
But the "why haven't we seen any yet?" argument isn't an air-tight proof.

JunkTop
JunkTop

@BinaryMan
just add more invisible dark matter to the equations until you get the results you want, that's how all astro physics works

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@BinaryMan
But you can't go back to a time BEFORE THE TUNNEL WAS CONSTRUCTED

So Primer nailed it. You can only go back as far as the box was switched on

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@TurtleCat
worm-hole travel to the past is a meme that takes advantage of the fact that behind a gravitational event horizon we have no data about what is really going on. Also you would need more energy than the universe to even theoretically prop open a stable tunnel of space time inside a gravitational singularity.

taking advantage of gravitational time dilation makes getting to the future easy.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@BinaryMan
time travel is something else than time fucking travel
now there's a fucking "time tunnel"
Changing the definitions will always make your theories look scientific.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@BinaryMan
What's with the pseudoscience sprinkled in, are you 12?

happy_sad
happy_sad

@TurtleCat
Rick and Morty
Time travel question
I think I have to stop coming here Jesus Christ it feels I just logged on to r*ddit

idontknow
idontknow

@TurtleCat
I mean, there has to be a first pass through of time in the first place right?
I don't get why so many people think this way about time travel.
"First" is itself a reference to TIME. You don't have a first time through time, if next week you travel back to the year 1818, the year 1818 isn't going to wait a week before you show up. You were already there in the year 1818 long before the year you were born. 1818 is never anything other than 200 years before the year 2018. Whether you travel there today, or next week, or next month is completely irrelevant to the fact you were already there 200 years ago.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@idontknow
Yeah but 1818 already happened

Inmate
Inmate

@Soft_member
prove it, were you there?

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Harmless_Venom
Don't argue with me.
Argue with Thorne and all the other physicists who agree. Even skeptics like Hawking accept that his math is right -- they just imagine some new physics will intervene.
Practically speaking, we haven't the slightest idea how we'd begin such a project.

You might learn some genuine science before making accusations.
Start by reading https://www.amazon.com/Gravitation-Charles-W-Misner/dp/0716703440

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Inmate
Last-Thursdayism
Technically no, but the data we have supports the existence of an 1818. Even if the universe was created yesterday - complete with human memories - working on the assumption that it did exist at that time and earlier is conducive to our research.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Inmate
Yes, I was

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Soft_member
That's the point. If you time travel to 1818 then you were already there in 1818 to begin with, long before you were born. People like OP seem to think you wouldn't be there until after you time travel, which is wrong because 1818 already happened 200 years before you time travel.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@SniperWish
Don't argue with me.
Argue with Thorne
Why don't you start by arguing FOR Thorne? Otherwise we're just going to argue with you, since you aren't Thorne.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@BinaryMan
Thorne can speak for himself.
That's why books exist.
Not going to waste my life teaching you physics.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@eGremlin
But 1818 happened prior to now. It's 2018, so 2018 happened and is happening. So by your logic, 2218 would have to happen before someone could come back to now from then

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@Nojokur
But 1818 happened prior to now.
Yes, and you travelled to the destination known as *prior to now*. Which means you were already there to begin with. That's what time travel to the past means.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Nojokur
So by your logic, 2218 would have to happen before someone could come back to now from then
No, that's the exact opposite of what I've argued. 2218 can never happen before 2018, that's the whole point of having numbers for years.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@Need_TLC
But I couldn't get there from now until now happened.

It's not as if I lived from 1818 till now, I went there from now

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Harmless_Venom
2218 can never happen before 2018
So 2218 would have to occur before anyone can go from 2218 to 2018

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

Hmm, I haven't been on Veeky Forums in quite a few years, I wonder if it's gotten any more intellige-

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Lord_Tryzalot
There's no such thing as "until now happened." Every moment in time exists when it exists, 1818 doesn't have to "wait" until 2018 "happens," 2018 exists at 2018, 1818 exists at 1818. 1818 is before 2018. If you travel then from now that can only mean you were in 1818 200 years ago.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@Bidwell
But we had to wait until 2018 happened to be able to go anywhere from 2018

SniperGod
SniperGod

@TurtleCat
/x/

RumChicken
RumChicken

@lostmypassword
wait until 2018 happened
That's an incoherent statement. 2018 doesn't take time to happen, it IS a time.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@massdebater
I seem to travel forward through time pretty easily.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Ignoramus
Then shut the fuck up, if your only answer to questioning is "argue with my authority". You're worthless.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@lostmypassword
Dude, you need to step back and consider your line of thought, you aren't making sense.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

Would teleportation into the future be possible, or just in the past?

Booteefool
Booteefool

@TurtleCat
I guess it could be possible but I don't really think so. Future is time that has yet to happen so I I don't think there is anything there. Unless time is in a loop and everything that has and will happen is documented in a space that we cannot access but this is /x tier thinking

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Booteefool
But if we travel in the past, wouldn't 1808 be a time where 2018 "hasn't happened yet"? How does 2018 exist for 1808.

5mileys
5mileys

@Booteefool
Unless time is in a loop and everything that has and will happen is documented in a space that we cannot access but this is /x tier thinking
This is very intriguing, user.

askme
askme

@StonedTime
last-thursdayism
Nice, you get an A in intro to philosophy?

hairygrape
hairygrape

@Evil_kitten
Well that goes back to what I posted user. In 1808 trying to travel to 2018 would be pretty hard since 2018 to them does not exist yet.To us in 2018, the year 1808 has already happened so we have somewhat of a guide to go by. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if people from 1808 or us in 2018 actually go to the future would that future even exist once we come back

Skullbone
Skullbone

@hairygrape
In 1808 trying to travel to 2018 would be pretty hard since 2018 to them does not exist yet
And the time machine would presumably have the information necessary to return, since it comes from an existent 2018...

Flameblow
Flameblow

@TurtleCat
Time Travel
Still thinking about time in 4 dimensions rather than 5

Time doesn't have to flow forwards or backwards. It just is. Our perception is forwards, but the world could work just as well in reverse.

Imagine space-time like a video clip (or 3d animation, if you want).
"Timelines changing" is equivalent to modifying the video clip.
Nothing in the video's "time" dimension need to have anything to do with the history of video edits. That's what it means for them to be two separate dimensions.

But sure, lets keep talking about killing granddads.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Skullbone
So maybe time travel to the future would be possible if we had the information from said future, which is only obtainable from potential time travellers. Maybe they are already visiting us, but it is too dangerous to reveal themselves, and this is why we don't know, probably travel is also strictly regulated.

Okay, i'll show myself out to /x/.

TechHater
TechHater

@viagrandad
No one here has any interest in educating you.
Veeky Forums doesn't pay anyway to care if you spend your life clueless.
If you're not just a troll, the answers ARE out there. Learn or don't learn, but please shut up until you have more to contribute than insults and put-downs.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Lord_Tryzalot
But I couldn't get there from now until now happened.
@lostmypassword
But we had to wait until 2018 happened to be able to go anywhere from 2018
Imagine all moments in time from the big bang to heat death all exist next to each other as one giant unchanging shape.
There is no one "real" present moment. Everyone in every time believes his moment is the present (sort of like the temporal equivalent to how everyone on every planet might get the impression their planet is the center of the universe because relative to their position it looks like everything else is revolving around them).
Nobody waits until 2018. 2018 is just a position in this shape. If you time travel from 2018 to 1818 that effectively means you were never not a part of the 1818 section of the shape. There can't be one version of 1818 where you aren't there and one version of 1818 where you are there, 1818 doesn't "happen" multiple times, it just is. Time travel to the past is the state of being a worm pattern on the universe's shape with some of its upper body wrapped around to a position behind some of its lower body. Getting into that position doesn't "take time" because the whole point of spacetime is that time is being accounted for as locations on a shape, and that means nothing about this shape is moving or changing. It just is.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@Flameblow
edits
You can't edit anything. If you traveled back in time whatever you did in that destination past was already done before you left your time per the definition of "past." Novikov self-consistency principle.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@TechHater
Nobody asked you to educate anyone. I was just arguing, and you should be able to form an argument other than "read this book". I'm not going to read a book just to find out what your point is.

Sorry if it seemed like i was insulting you, it was just Veeky Forums talk.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Spazyfool
Novikov self-consistency principle.
Specifically, it assumes either that there is only one timeline, or that any alternative timelines (such as those postulated by the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics) are not accessible.

Only matters if you assume that.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@SomethingNew
If you go to a different timeline then you aren't really going to the past, you're going to a parallel version of the past.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

No, no, no, all you guys are getting it all wrong. Everything in the universe has already happened, everything. What were doing as three dimensional beings are moving through time one page at a time. Only abling to percieve this universe in the context of past, present, and future when in actuality they all exist as one. That's why some minds are able to glimps moments before they accur because their perception momentarily got a jolt of seeing things outside of our normal way of seeing the space/time contiuum. Imagine the universe(past,present,and future) as one thick book where we all live out our lives day by day moving from one page to the next.

Yes time travel is possible and sadly to say it's only a matter of time before someone thinks of something up that will ultimately lead to the advent of mankinds' temporal technology.

And sadly to say but all the mis-use of this technology in the future from the wrong people, I feel as if someone may have already altered the course of our natural timeline. It just feels like humanity could have,should have,would have been going down a different path than the one it's taking now.

That's what pisses me off about time travel, no one should have the right to play God altering people's destiny like this, whether it be accidental or intentional.

Inmate
Inmate

@Gigastrength
"No, no, no, all you guys are getting it all wrong"
proceeds to repeat what other posters said

hairygrape
hairygrape

@Gigastrength
That's why some minds are able to glimps moments before they accur because their perception momentarily got a jolt of seeing things outside of our normal way of seeing the space/time contiuum.
/x/

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@Gigastrength
Everything in the universe has already happened, everything.
What were doing as three dimensional beings are moving through time one page at a time.
If every moment in time exists like locations in space then what you have is a single *unchanging* shape. Nobody would be "moving" through any of it. If you account for time as part of a space-time shape then the idea anything is still moving "through" that shape would defeat the purpose of modeling time that way.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Nude_Bikergirl
Consciousness sees everything as moving. Everything is actually standing still we're just fooled because our brains aren't built for this shit.

Ffs, i clicked out of /x/ again?

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Gigastrength
@Gigastrength
trust me about the nature of time, but ignore the fact I type like an 8 year old pajeet
jesus christ
"sadly to say" is not proper english you nigger
it's "I am sad to say" or just "sadly"

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@Ignoramus
There's nothing grammatically incorrect about that statement, you're a retard.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@JunkTop
I know right?

Emberfire
Emberfire

@TurtleCat
this thread is just answering bait with bait.

the real answer is this: if time travel were to be invented, then there would be infinite pass throughs of time. what's the chances we are in the first pass through? zero. therefor time travel won't be invented.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

I mean, there has to be a first pass through of time in the first place right?

There would be a coherent reference frame in which the first person to invent a time machine can be considered the creator of the universe and all other things are relative to that... even if they are "before"

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Emberfire
infinite pass throughs
Why do all these people keep making the mistake of treating time like something you move through? Motion is a change in position over time, you can't move through time because time is what accounts for any movement you participate in. Your positions are fixed locations in space-time, there is no "pass through" of these locations, they're just there.

idontknow
idontknow

The reason why our consciousness has to see things as moving is because that's how were built from birth, to devide the universe into past, present, and future.

But if you try to see things from a higher dimensional point of view it begins to make sense.

And being able to navigate through the timeline isn't something to be amazed at, it's a freakin mistake that should never have been allowed to happen.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@Fuzzy_Logic
Are you going to cry because a real physicist told your mom to shut you up again?

Methshot
Methshot

@TurtleCat
Why would anyone think time travelers would identify themselves ?

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@Lunatick
physicist shows how actual backwards time travel could be possible according to the known laws of physics, but it would come with some restrictions
"hurr he's changing the definition"

Lunatick
Lunatick

@idontknow
That interpretation of backwards time travel is just as absurd as the "you can change the future lol" bullshit. It essentially says that whatever you've done in the past, it lead to the same version of you travelling back in time 200 years later only to do those exact same things. It's like there is an invisible hand controlling your actions.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@TurtleCat
we would have met time travelers
... bcoz why?
This is the unanswered question:
why would we expect to meet time travellers?

SniperGod
SniperGod

Because the guy who made this thread to begin with thinks it's cool to time travel and that who ever did would want to be famous for doing so by telling everyone in this point in time that he is. Sorry but just connecting the dots for anyone else who don't see it.

For those who are now or still unsure of what time really is, this is just about as simple as I can make it....

" time is a three dimensional type of measurement of matter as it exists in this continuum "

hairygrape
hairygrape

@BunnyJinx
Did i say there was, genius?

Techpill
Techpill

@TurtleCat
I'd Say It's Continuum Hypothesis True (David Hilbert< Comics Are A Bitch)

Woof.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@hairygrape
Simon Did, And He's The Only Living Genius In 2018.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Lunatick
That's not absurd, it's the only non-absurd way you could talk about time.
You don't "go through time" multiple "times." You *are* a part of time, each of your moments are points in time and if you time travel a hundred years to the past then whatever you do there already happened a hundred years ago before you were even born. Thinking you have two "passes" around time is retarded and nonsensical. Your every moment is already accounted for by time, if you're still "moving" then that completely invalidates the purpose of talking about time as though it were spatial. Everything is unmoving and static if time is mapped out like a space. Look at a space-time depiction of the universe for example. It contains the big bang to the far left and the different moments following to the right. The mistake you're making is like thinking there should be a second animated gif of the big bang on top of the static pictures that already account for the big bang's movement over time in that picture.

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