"From the Greeks I have not at all felt similarly strong impressions, and to be blunt, they cannot mean as much to me us the Romans. We do not learn from the Greeks — their manner is too foreign and too fluid to create a commanding, "classical" effect. Who could ever have learned to write from a Greek? Who could ever have learned to write without the Romans? Please do not throw Plato at me. I am a complete skeptic about Plato, and I have never been able to join in the customary scholarly admiration for Plato the artist." -- Nietzsche, Twilight of the Idols
Why should I start with the Greeks? Why should I care about them at all?
Julian Peterson
bump for interest
Connor Kelly
Nietzsche was a hack. There is nothing more than what is built upon the Greeks. Sure, you've learned to write from Cicero, but everything else? The Greeks.
Caleb Johnson
consider reading the birth of tragedy for your answer
Nicholas Baker
he talks about philosophy here Nietzsche thought greek tragedy was the highest form of art ever conceived but he disliked Plato (and the greek philosophers) because they started over-rationalizing thus "killing" the sublime pre-socratic way of life. But you should still start with the greeks (at least read some Plato) for philosophy because you know something something everythings a footnote to Plato and ofc. start with the greeks in literature but that should be self-explanatory also Nietzsche had a hard-on for the roman empire
Carter Lewis
Hmmm, Nietzsche is talking about Plato and I'm fucking lost. I have no fucking idea what he's talking about because I never read any of Plato's works.
Daniel Bailey
Nietzsche's preference for the Romans was a very late development. Before that he was all about the Greeks (esp. the Presocratic philosophers and the Pre-Euripidean tragedians).
Henry Cook
>as much to me us the Romans
What?
Jack Russell
t.mental illness
Nathan Campbell
I read Nietzsche a long time ago. Is this really what he was like? Just trying to put his opinions as contrarianly as possible?
Ayden Hughes
very late Nietzsche is like this (Twilight, Antichrist) which is what most people end up reading middle stuff (BGE, Genealogy) is better
Jayden Gonzalez
No, he was deep inside just a good person but couldn't accept it for himself and historical bias tends to show him as a far worse guy than he actually was.
Brody Bailey
cuck talk greeks were based. romans were pussies (muh stocisim)
Bentley Sanchez
I think pointing to Roman thought is wrongheaded here. Greeks were the men of abstract thought, but Romans of pragmatic action.
Adrian Hughes
maybe the pre-hellenized romans at least personally i dont see much that was praiseworthy about roman civilization. they're a precursor of cultureless modern bureaucracies: the only culture they had was that which they absorbed, and in the process of absorbtion they destroyed that which produced it.
Michael Carter
>i dont see much that was praiseworthy about roman civilization Romans had took Greek wisdom and made it something useful. They were maybe the most practical civilisation in the world.
Caleb Scott
elaborate
Andrew Anderson
Rome didn't take much wisdom from Greece except a loathing of their social structure
Rome was honestly a shitty culture of violent dogmatic morons. The only thing the Romans did well was military discipline, and this was only because they took the Spartan ideal but made it into a culture of permanent campaign warfare--their soldiers rarely had time to settle.
Zachary Gomez
to elaborate on my perspective, i see homer, hesiod, the tragedians as practical. i see the romans as decadent, concerned solely with entertainment. the stories of metamorphoses are those of star-crossed lovers, nothing like vitality presented either in Antigone or Prometheus Bound, much less the Iliad or Works and Days. The Aeneid can't compete on its own.
Logan Baker
truth. The Gates of Janus were seldom closed
Nicholas Sanders
Except for almost 50 years of based Numa's reign
Charles Phillips
>what is roman law >what is roman art >what is roman bureaucracy >what is roman engineering You're either a retard or an underage who 've learned Romans only from video games. Pic related. This shit is called Trajan's Column. Romans had even used Hellenistic art to commemorate their war expeditions and to inform people meanwhile Greeks with too busy chiseling Olympian gods. They were that practical. Violent, yes, dogmatic, maybe. But shitty, hell no.
Juan Richardson
No, more simple if anything.
Cooper Lee
>roman law You mean a ritualistic and deeply unjust legal system? Wow, awesome. Not to mention they took most of their lawmakers from Greece >roman art Stole shit from Greece and copied it >roman bureaucracy More OCD ritualist nonsense >roman engineering Sure they were great engineers, ties back into the military point. Even today the best engineers tend to come from military corps.
Levi Adams
>roman law a shit civil law system that has had a pernicious effect on the development of superior common law doctrine >roman art a poor imitation of Greek art. >roman bureaucracy cancer >roman engineering over hundreds of years technology improves, wow.
Chase Morales
Conquered Greece conquered her conquerors.
Aaron Ward
>common law >superior Nigga please.
Andrew Howard
If Greeks are so shit how come they bookend Roman culture so thoroughly?
Greeks are already miles ahead when the Italian peninsula was warring baboons, and then the Greek part of the Roman Empire outlasts the Roman part by a full millenia.
Italians are literal untermensch, they can't do shit without copying other people, a trait that continues into the modern era.
Jace Garcia
>what is the book of Jubilee >what is Esketsa >what is a mosquito pie >what indigenous power resisted colonization
based Ethiopian culture, don't you dare talk shit!
Eli Anderson
>Gayreeks still mad even after thousands of years Vae Victis cocksuckers, you've already had your chance with that Alexander faggot.
Hudson Peterson
When the OHCHR comes to get you for violating Art. 6 sec. 6f of the International Convention on Hate Speech remember this post.
Sebastian Myers
Oh, for sure they'll "deeply concerned" and "condemn" me for my actions, right?
Carter Carter
t.faggot
Nathaniel Harris
if current trends arent reversed we will have enforceable international civil law sooner rather than later (at least within pax americana)
Cameron Bailey
>we will have enforceable international civil law Why don't you guys actually admit that your law system is just an abomination?
Sebastian James
To be quite honest, we're looking more likely to be subservient to the Fourth (or is this the fifth) Reich once they finish off Britain, and send the Arabs to France. Our Glorious Leader is completely oblivious to the state of our economy, and I have yet to hear an effective solution for how we are going to sustain ourselves. Our economy is on the verge of going into paralysis.
Kevin Torres
>pax americana >meanwhile Trump has agreed to make a 110 Billion worth weapon deal with Saudis
Ayden Flores
The traitor president. Russians and Arabs, the two people who hate Americans the most, and there he goes jerking them off.
Angel Jenkins
>The traitor president Gimme a break, isn't he supposed to be "your guy"?
Cameron Robinson
I didn't vote for him, his election is an embarassment
Eli Phillips
the embarrassment is the DNC forcing the most loathed politician in the nation onto the ticket and assuming that they can get her into the White House from sheer disdain for Trump with a campagn strategy that managed to alienate both moderate whites and leftists
Ayden Perez
This post is painfully true. I felt as if there were no moderate candidates.
Thomas Ramirez
True
Kevin Long
Where did this Stoicism is for pussies meme come from? How fucking stupid would you have to be to believe this?
Adrian Hall
Can someone explain to me the mentality of people who quote philosophers in the same way Islamic law Scholars quote from Hadiths or the Quran?
Why should Nietzsche be right about everything?
Dominic Wilson
they basically took a view that the neo-platonists already held, got really fixated on it like those with aspergers tend to do, and wrote tomes and tomes about it while somehow managing to say nothing new and still thought they were making a meaningful contribution to philosophy.
also, you cant be a bonvivant and a stoic.
Angel Phillips
only idiots who have never studied the school of thought think this. They're too lazy to understand it, or too weak willed to appreciate what they do understand. It's mostly low iq ppl though.