"From the Greeks I have not at all felt similarly strong impressions, and to be blunt...

"From the Greeks I have not at all felt similarly strong impressions, and to be blunt, they cannot mean as much to me us the Romans. We do not learn from the Greeks — their manner is too foreign and too fluid to create a commanding, "classical" effect. Who could ever have learned to write from a Greek? Who could ever have learned to write without the Romans? Please do not throw Plato at me. I am a complete skeptic about Plato, and I have never been able to join in the customary scholarly admiration for Plato the artist." -- Nietzsche, Twilight of the Idols

Why should I start with the Greeks? Why should I care about them at all?

bump for interest

Nietzsche was a hack. There is nothing more than what is built upon the Greeks.
Sure, you've learned to write from Cicero, but everything else? The Greeks.

consider reading the birth of tragedy for your answer

he talks about philosophy here
Nietzsche thought greek tragedy was the highest form of art ever conceived but he disliked Plato (and the greek philosophers) because they started over-rationalizing thus "killing" the sublime pre-socratic way of life.
But you should still start with the greeks (at least read some Plato) for philosophy because you know something something everythings a footnote to Plato
and ofc. start with the greeks in literature but that should be self-explanatory
also Nietzsche had a hard-on for the roman empire

Hmmm, Nietzsche is talking about Plato and I'm fucking lost. I have no fucking idea what he's talking about because I never read any of Plato's works.

Nietzsche's preference for the Romans was a very late development. Before that he was all about the Greeks (esp. the Presocratic philosophers and the Pre-Euripidean tragedians).

>as much to me us the Romans

What?

t.mental illness

I read Nietzsche a long time ago. Is this really what he was like? Just trying to put his opinions as contrarianly as possible?

very late Nietzsche is like this (Twilight, Antichrist)
which is what most people end up reading
middle stuff (BGE, Genealogy) is better

No, he was deep inside just a good person but couldn't accept it for himself and historical bias tends to show him as a far worse guy than he actually was.

cuck talk
greeks were based. romans were pussies (muh stocisim)

I think pointing to Roman thought is wrongheaded here. Greeks were the men of abstract thought, but Romans of pragmatic action.

maybe the pre-hellenized romans
at least personally i dont see much that was praiseworthy about roman civilization. they're a precursor of cultureless modern bureaucracies: the only culture they had was that which they absorbed, and in the process of absorbtion they destroyed that which produced it.

>i dont see much that was praiseworthy about roman civilization
Romans had took Greek wisdom and made it something useful. They were maybe the most practical civilisation in the world.

elaborate

Rome didn't take much wisdom from Greece except a loathing of their social structure

Rome was honestly a shitty culture of violent dogmatic morons. The only thing the Romans did well was military discipline, and this was only because they took the Spartan ideal but made it into a culture of permanent campaign warfare--their soldiers rarely had time to settle.

to elaborate on my perspective, i see homer, hesiod, the tragedians as practical. i see the romans as decadent, concerned solely with entertainment. the stories of metamorphoses are those of star-crossed lovers, nothing like vitality presented either in Antigone or Prometheus Bound, much less the Iliad or Works and Days. The Aeneid can't compete on its own.

truth. The Gates of Janus were seldom closed

Except for almost 50 years of based Numa's reign

>what is roman law
>what is roman art
>what is roman bureaucracy
>what is roman engineering
You're either a retard or an underage who 've learned Romans only from video games. Pic related. This shit is called Trajan's Column. Romans had even used Hellenistic art to commemorate their war expeditions and to inform people meanwhile Greeks with too busy chiseling Olympian gods. They were that practical. Violent, yes, dogmatic, maybe. But shitty, hell no.

No, more simple if anything.

>roman law
You mean a ritualistic and deeply unjust legal system? Wow, awesome. Not to mention they took most of their lawmakers from Greece
>roman art
Stole shit from Greece and copied it
>roman bureaucracy
More OCD ritualist nonsense
>roman engineering
Sure they were great engineers, ties back into the military point. Even today the best engineers tend to come from military corps.

>roman law
a shit civil law system that has had a pernicious effect on the development of superior common law doctrine
>roman art
a poor imitation of Greek art.
>roman bureaucracy
cancer
>roman engineering
over hundreds of years technology improves, wow.

Conquered Greece conquered her conquerors.

>common law
>superior
Nigga please.

If Greeks are so shit how come they bookend Roman culture so thoroughly?

Greeks are already miles ahead when the Italian peninsula was warring baboons, and then the Greek part of the Roman Empire outlasts the Roman part by a full millenia.

Italians are literal untermensch, they can't do shit without copying other people, a trait that continues into the modern era.

>what is the book of Jubilee
>what is Esketsa
>what is a mosquito pie
>what indigenous power resisted colonization

based Ethiopian culture, don't you dare talk shit!

>Gayreeks still mad even after thousands of years
Vae Victis cocksuckers, you've already had your chance with that Alexander faggot.

When the OHCHR comes to get you for violating Art. 6 sec. 6f of the International Convention on Hate Speech remember this post.

Oh, for sure they'll "deeply concerned" and "condemn" me for my actions, right?

t.faggot

if current trends arent reversed we will have enforceable international civil law sooner rather than later (at least within pax americana)

>we will have enforceable international civil law
Why don't you guys actually admit that your law system is just an abomination?

To be quite honest, we're looking more likely to be subservient to the Fourth (or is this the fifth) Reich once they finish off Britain, and send the Arabs to France. Our Glorious Leader is completely oblivious to the state of our economy, and I have yet to hear an effective solution for how we are going to sustain ourselves. Our economy is on the verge of going into paralysis.

>pax americana
>meanwhile Trump has agreed to make a 110 Billion worth weapon deal with Saudis

The traitor president. Russians and Arabs, the two people who hate Americans the most, and there he goes jerking them off.

>The traitor president
Gimme a break, isn't he supposed to be "your guy"?

I didn't vote for him, his election is an embarassment

the embarrassment is the DNC forcing the most loathed politician in the nation onto the ticket and assuming that they can get her into the White House from sheer disdain for Trump with a campagn strategy that managed to alienate both moderate whites and leftists

This post is painfully true. I felt as if there were no moderate candidates.

True

Where did this Stoicism is for pussies meme come from? How fucking stupid would you have to be to believe this?

Can someone explain to me the mentality of people who quote philosophers in the same way Islamic law Scholars quote from Hadiths or the Quran?

Why should Nietzsche be right about everything?

they basically took a view that the neo-platonists already held, got really fixated on it like those with aspergers tend to do, and wrote tomes and tomes about it while somehow managing to say nothing new and still thought they were making a meaningful contribution to philosophy.

also, you cant be a bonvivant and a stoic.

only idiots who have never studied the school of thought think this. They're too lazy to understand it, or too weak willed to appreciate what they do understand. It's mostly low iq ppl though.

nazi isis advocating white sharia