"Philosophy is an artform of what man does best

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

"Philosophy is an artform of what man does best: explain. Rhetorical mumbojumbo with, at least, seeds of subjective truth. Indeed, philosophy is just as much connected to art as it is to the sciences. Intertwined with the colorful shapes of subjectivity, instead of cold, harsh and concrete objectivity. But in its search for the link between two worlds, it found something that objectivity lacks altogether: a bridge between objectivity and subjectivity. How the world in itself collides with our lenses, what is reality, and above all: What is the truth?"

What does Veeky Forums think of this?

Booteefool
Booteefool

That's a pretty standard observation. It's very hard to reconcile the subjective viewpoint with the objective one, and philosophy has to deal with this.

I was just reading Nagel's The View from Nowhere which addresses this issue.

In any case, we might try to find some higher view which can in fact reconcile the two. How the heck we would do that, I don't know.

Inmate
Inmate

@AwesomeTucker
If i was on facebook i'd give this quote a thumbs up. But that's all.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@AwesomeTucker
I'm not a big fan of these kinds of metaphors, 'philosophy is an artform'. Okay, so what is art?

These kinds of metaphors often escape scrutiny because the speaker and their audience is only an expert on one half of the metaphor. I've heard countless metaphors, a musician will say "Music is like Poetry with Sound" and the poet will say "Poetry is like Music with Words". An athlete will say "Sport is a Dance" and a dancer will say "Dance is an athletic sport".

And sure, Objectivity and Subjectivity are a fundamental problem that philosophy has struggled with for a few thousand years. But I'm not seeing anything brilliant in this description of that problem. If anything, it feels like it opens up one can of worms after another. What is Philosophy, What is Truth, What is Objective, What is the Subject, What is Perception, What is Language, What is Art, What is Science, What is a World.

I don't understand why you end on the question "What is the truth". I don't know this has to be the fundamental question "above all" other questions. "What is the Subject", "What is Thought", "What is Perception" "What is the World" are all possible "Ultimate Questions"

Techpill
Techpill

@Booteefool
But is there any higher view than this? If it is all about perspective, what is there to go beyond (than the metaphysical and self-defining truths themselves)

Methnerd
Methnerd

@kizzmybutt
I don't understand why you end on the question "What is the truth". I don't know this has to be the fundamental question "above all" other questions. "What is the Subject", "What is Thought", "What is Perception" "What is the World" are all possible "Ultimate Questions"

All questions need to be answered by truth, though.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@kizzmybutt
True, it is easy to escape answers just by answering a question with even more questions, but in a way, when you start a reading, do you not want this? (Sorry for bad engrish and typos, i'm a bit drunk and not native speaker)

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Techpill
Nagel describes the objective view as the "view from nowhere". You could describe the subjective view as the "view from somewhere" or the "view from here". What we need is a "view from everywhere" or something. That's the best I got, but since this is Veeky Forums, some Hegelian should come around any minute now and make claims about Hegel solving everything and how I'm a pleb.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Methnerd
Wouldn't you need an ability to perceive the truth, to understand the truth, a subject to do the understanding and perceiving and a world for the subject to inhabit? Surely Truth comes after those things. There is no truth without a Subject to notice it.

Further, you can create entirely philosophies on our inability to determine truth. Lately I've been wondering if all philosophy shouldn't start from the position that 'Misperception is the only guarantee". That is, we are born blind and deaf and dumb, and come to believe all sorts of ridiculous things that turn out to be false.

TechHater
TechHater

@Methnerd
What kind of truth? All bachelors are unmarried?

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

Another (not proofread) quote:
"With each line, with each consequent stroke we lose more of ourself to the nonself, until all that is left is a insignificantly small and weak, mutilated body. With this recognizion we falter, for the first time, we crave and reach out for any hands that would help us. We search for answers from beyond ourselves, understandably. Soon someone answers, and we build the first cornerstone of our mind. This pillar, built upon nonself, cannot support us in truth and so we construct a web of lies, a web that, in time, makes up far more of the ground we stand on than the visions of each self themselves.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@RumChicken
But is it not possible to perceive a part of truth through your faulty lens?

Soft_member
Soft_member

@RumChicken
Sure you need that stuff to determine truth. You might say that it's metaphysically prior to truth, but it's not epistemologically prior to truth, so to speak. "What is subject?" has to be answered with true statements.

And basing a philosophy on a contradiction amounts to basing it on nothing.

@TechHater
Whatever works. Maybe it's all analytic, senpai.

5mileys
5mileys

@RavySnake
Interesting, but is it possible for humans, for us, to see the 'view from everywhere'?

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Soft_member
But is there only one truth?

WebTool
WebTool

"We learn to be rhetorics to fill out a role created by conscience; at one point; i am, becomes, i am to justify myself. You become the servant of morals, and a worthless one at that. Twisting and turning your masters words to suit your needs, still claiming to be his, and only his."

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@WebTool
@Dreamworx
@AwesomeTucker
Any criticism of these would be greatly appreciated, rip away Veeky Forums

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Harmless_Venom
Maybe avoid talking at the reader with "you". It comes off a little condescending and antagonistic. Try "we" instead or "A human subject" or "people".

likme
likme

@Evil_kitten
Hmm I see, understandable. So never point a finger at the reader directly.

Though I must ask, if I truly want to start some fires, should I not try just that, there is no bad publicity after all?

Emberfire
Emberfire

@likme
Its a matter of style. I prefer to avoid using I, We, and You, unless my identtiy matters specifically, the identity of the reader matters specifically, or if we are engaged in a collective task.

So if I was writing a speech to give at a political rallies, it'd be filled with I, You and We. If I'm writing a timeless philosophical work, I'd avoid those pronouns entirely, since the reader is anyone and the 'you' isn't specific. It isn't 'you workers in the auto union" or "I, the candidate for election". If its a universal human, I'd aim to use terms like Human Subject, Humanity, Society, Humans, People, A Person.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Emberfire
Hmm I see, your point is clear, but I find (let's say in the likeness of Stirner) the personal writing, directed towards the reader, though it might be that I am not as competent of bringing such emotional link between the reader and the writer as i felt that he did.

I must admit though, the disconnectivity of emotions, especially between the writer and the reader, is often the cornerstone of Western philosophy.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@ZeroReborn
I almost made my first point clear.
But i like the closeness of Nietszche and Stirner towards the reader, and would like to succeed in the same way.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@GoogleCat
And what comes to the "disconnectivity", i think 'distance' is a more correct word. We want to, emotionally, dissect ourselves from our idols, just like fron ourselves. As such, it is easier to apprisiate works of men who do not direct their words towarss us, but instead towards ideas that we are part of. Escapism in a way.

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