I'm getting shat on in /v/ for posting this...

I'm getting shat on in /v/ for posting this. I understand that I'm not the most eloquent writer and my insights are probably wrong as fuck, but I thought maybe some people here can appreciate that the Ocarina of Time is more than just a typical video game. There is something truly archetypal in the way the story unfolds, in the way the characters interact to how the dungeons all have histories and implied symbolism behind them. Bear with me here, I know it's just a game, but it's hard to deny that the creators of this game didn't have solid literary and historical knowledge. For example, look at the forest temple: why is it a castle? In the original translation of the game, it hints that the forest temple used to be a fortress. There is meaning behind this, suggesting a slightly darker history behind hyrule and the lost woods than the game explicitly states, and there are all sorts of details in that dungeon that SCREAM symbolism and metaphor, all the way to the boss fight with phantom ganon. The whole game is full of things that aren't explicitly stated, but are there for a reason. I may be wrong about this, but I'm essentially looking for someone with a good knowledge of literary history and the game that can maybe clear up some details about this game to me.

The Ocarina of Time's ending wraps up the game in a way that is a bit odd. All the characters join in the field of Lon Lon Ranch and all the characters are grouped in a way that can be interpreted as putting them in archetypal categories; suggesting to me that this scene isn't so much literal as trying to put things in perspective and showing the characters in relationships to one another that are more literary and poetic than seeming completely literal. You see the Ingo and Talon (red noses comically suggesting drunkenness) arm-in-arm, finally having made peace. It's very sentimental. The lazy construction workers of Kakariko are all singing choir style with Malon leading them in song. There is even an especially funny nod and wink to the three 'space cadets' in the story, (the bean guy, the guy in the desert, and the lake scientist) all sitting together on a magic carpet.

When people talk about the significance of Mido and King Zora sitting together in this scene, they often say that King Zora and Mido are sitting together because they both "mourning" the loss someone they loved; as in the people closest to them, Ruto and Saria respectively, were actually sages, and their mortal incarnations disappeared in the end.

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I feel like that's a fair analysis, but I can't help but think there might be another meaning, (or at least an extra layer of meaning) behind them sitting together. They almost appear to be meditating. Not meditating in the spiritual sense, but both deep in thought, eyes cast to the ground.

It almost seems like a message to the player that we aren't all heroes in the story of our lives. Both Mido and King Zora actually act as hindrances to the Hero of Time in their lives. Mido stops Link at many turns, and feels justified in doing so. He constantly blocks Link's path and has a bit of a hero complex; bitter at Link for getting chosen by the Deku Tree instead of him.

As for the King, it doesn't seem to be bitterness, but some other character flaw that makes him serve as such a hindrance to Link. Again, the game uses comedy to point this out: We all remember the scene in which King Zora takes a near eternity to scoot inch-by-inch out of the way of the gate leading to Jabu-Jabu. The joke is that King Zora is a sort of failed leader. No King should be so fat and lazy. But it seems that his bigger sin is ignorance. For a King, he's pretty oblivious about the goings-on that are right under his nose. It takes so much to even get him to move, much less find his missing daughter at all. And it's not like it was that hard to figure out what happened to her anyway, I mean, there's a giant hungry cannibalistic fish behind you who your daughter feeds everyday.

The point is, both the King and Mido perhaps saw themselves as very important figures in their stories, perhaps even thinking of themselves as heroes. In the end, however, they look back and saw that they weren't the heroes of the story, but instead hindrances to the true hero. We all do this ourselves at some point. We all want to project ourselves into Link's place. But there seems to be something that's being said by this scene of them together that signifies this: You probably aren't the hero in the story. You may just have to serve as the gatekeeper who needs to accept his place and let the true hero continue on his path. You may be instrumental in that quest, and if you don't act correctly, you actually cause damage to the people around you. Maybe you're incarnate as the hero of time in another life, but you're probably just a side character who needs to fulfill his less-than-glorious duty. Both of them seem to have some sort of lesson of humility that they need to learn in their interaction with Link.

Am I looking too deep into this?

I'm posting here because not only does /v/ not like to discuss games in this manner, but Veeky Forums could maybe make an exception because this game is such an iconic and meaningful piece of work for so many people that have played it. The game's story, (majora's mask too) has a very allegorical or metaphorical feel to it. It's a clockwork of character relationships and symbolism. I think it's pretty naive to say that the writers didn't have solid historical, mythological, and literary knowledge to draw from. The video game industry, especially nintendo, was composed of a different kind of person back then. Much more classically educated, much more respect for literary tradition and values. I feel like you'd have to be pretty dense to say that the game is just a game and wasn't trying to signify anything at all. You fucking battle your shadow-self in the same temple that literally reflects the last temple you fought as a child before growing up. The first three temples in the game are literally echoed in the game's second half, and the water temple is the gateway to breaking that echo and moving onto something new. It's no coincidence that the next temple is the shadow temple. The game is filled with things like this that are honestly more than just throwaway allusions to old literary themes. It's obvious that the writers had a better understanding of myth than that, as they handle all the archetypes so gracefully. I think people overlook the zelda games simply because Ocarina of Time and Majoras Mask were the only games that really tried to say something about the human experience and weren't just fanservice or shallow, hackneyed reinterpretations of things that had already been done in the earlier games. You can't analyze Skyward Sword or Twilight Princess with the same fine-toothed comb that you can with these games. There is so much unnecessary garbage in those games and the stories are feeble to say the least. I think OOT was just a simple enough canvas for them to paint on that it didn't get cluttered with unnecessary detail. It made for a rather eloquent yet, dare I say, deep game that is ultimately more than it appears on the surface.

You're autistic.

this

no

holy.. i want more..

Well, they just archived my thread there. Too autistic for them, I guess. Makes me kind of sad that people won't recognize what the writers were trying to get across. The zelda fandom is a cesspit, unfortunately. I really think we ought to give the team that worked on OOT and Majora's Mask a bit more credit, they were trying to make something great, and I think they succeeded. They're not great novels or epics, but they are at least more than people give them credit for.

start with the greeks