Why does postmodernism gets so much hate?

why does postmodernism gets so much hate?

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Their ideas don't mean anything

because the modernists are used to fighting teddy boys

His best contribution to music is helping record Ys, he didn't even produce it.

Cause they're hacks.
>Lets just cherrypick what has and doesn't have value, then ignore these other values over there that we still have

t. never read any theoretical/critical work on postmodernism
t. never knew Starobinski

>this is your brain on Peterson

what is postmodernism?

Cause they won't stop poisoning western civilization

Papa Memerson's programming, basically.

It's ugly, and ugly art serves no purpose.

>>Lets just cherrypick what has and doesn't have value, then ignore these other values over there that we still have
that's modernism, dearheart. it's what the postmodernists were trying to stop. you should try stopping posting.

Thx, I'll add him to my 280+ philosophy/politics/economics to read book list.
>The Invention of Liberty, 1700-89
>Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Transparency and Obstruction
Most of it seems to be untranslated, I guess that says everything about his/her importance.

So postmodernist are just modernists?
I didn't claim choosing values was bad, the hypocrisy of saying that you don't, Is.

What are some good books that will objective in defining and examining modernism and post-modernism? I'll worry about criticism later.

>15 years ago, it's the year 2002
>be me in school, 11 year old impressionable kid
>teachers calls themselves liberals, and impart knowledge onto me:
>treat everyone fairly and with respect, no matter which culture and place they come from
>skin color is irrelevant, we are all human beings and love and tolerance is all that you should preach
>in unity, we are strong

>fast forward to the present, it's the year 2017
>be me, bitter 26 year old
>co-workers and passerby protesters call themselves liberals, and impart knowledge onto me:
>PAY REPARATIONS YOU FUCKING WHITE MALE YOU CIS SCUM OPPRESSOR
>NO ONE FUCKING CARES ABOUT YOUR OPINION, YOU'RE WHITE, SHUT THE FUCK UP
>DUDE FORCED DIVERSITY EVERYWHERE, FUCK COMPETENCE, WE NEED A PERFECT SPLIT BECAUSE
>CALL ME XHEY AND XHIR, IF YOU DON'T I WILL REPORT YOU TO THE AUTHORITIES AND YOU WILL BE FINED $250,000
>FREEDOM OF SPEECH? NICE EXCUSE YOU FUCKING NAZI
>GO ON GO ON, I DARE YOU, JOIN THE FUCKING ALT-RIGHT, I KNOW YOU'RE A NAZI DEEP DOWN EVEN IF YOU DON'T WANT TO ADMIT IT YET

it sucks

no, darling, the postmodernists were fighting against saying you don't. you really should stop posting until you consult a dictionary at least.

socialism

>sacrificing alliteration to get 'meme' in there

not the artistic choice i would have made for that post

radical leftists are devoid of any artistic talent

>mfw its essentially the opposite

it triggers brainlets and intellectuals alike.

brainlets can't understand it...intellectuals understand it but see its endgame

>"post" debates

its not 1994 anymore

>i don't do culture

...

The the question and then that post again... We are still on Veeky Forums aren't we?

the endgame is postmodernism is power through chaos

the ruling elite trotting it out are using chaos to stir hatred among the commoners, setting common folk against each other

that's why the wage gap is increasing, because people are too busy hating each other to do something about the ruling elite

Because there is no refuting it. There is only digging your head on the sand and shouting
>NO IT'S STUPID
Postmodernism is not a set of "ideas". It is an inevitable realisation of the relativity of ideas.

Because people haven't actually read them.

>picasso

get that pleb garbage out of here

give me Michelangelo and Da Vinci any day over that ,

Peterson once used deSelby as an architectural reference without realizing what he'd done. Naturally, it attracted the type of critics deSelby inevitably does.

Kek! Literally the only two artists you've heard of.

Eat artist's shit and admire Kalervo Palsa instead

youtube.com/watch?v=1kdnmT_7gLE

Reminder that this is still Peterson's biggest mistake to date

What the fuck was he thinking?

>wait as he Google's "patrician art"

>leftist "art"

absolutely repugnant

>postmodern film
>DUDE REFERENCES KITSCH AND PARALLEL TIMELINES LMAO

>postmodern literature
>DUDE IRONY LMAO

>postmodern architecture
>DUDE LET'S SACRIFICE USABILITY AND COMFORT IN THE NAME OF GIMMICKS LMAO

>postmodern painting
>DUDE THESE SIMPLE GEOMETRIC FORMS AND RANDOM SPLATS OF PAINT DISCLOSE THE UNCONSCIOUS MIND INTO CANVAS LMAO

I thought it was kind of them to not mention his reference to Dr Kurt Unruh von Steinplatz; say what you will about deSelby criticism, they respect a man's right to a Jungian outlook on meeting the dead or otherwise beyond the veil, and seem to have taken his at his word he met the good doktor himself.

Would you say the same about this?

What do you mean?
youtube.com/watch?v=HcEJr8h_yGM
youtube.com/watch?v=YYdfVA5JURE

leave Kalervo alone
Primitivism, bitch!

t. Nikifor Krynicki

that reddit spacing
that /pol/tard namedropping
that random comma at the end
what a sublime bait

Fucking brilliant.

I love this type of imagery. Otto Dix's triumph of death mixed with his plates on the trenches come to mind, as do The Disasters - Goya

Who is this?

That's not postmodernist.
No matter what the artist claims it is.

>he did more

peterson is too smart not to realize that this looks like he's intentionally trying to align himself with the alt-right

>All ideas are relative. Except this one.
Yawn. Pomo is brain cancer.

how do you refute a non-argument?

t. can't into shellac

>Otto Dix
I know what is so great about this artist if you know what I mean hehehe

>>DUDE THESE SIMPLE GEOMETRIC FORMS AND RANDOM SPLATS OF PAINT DISCLOSE THE UNCONSCIOUS MIND INTO CANVAS LMAO
abstract expressionists are modernists
>>DUDE IRONY LMAO
About as much as the Greeks. Better off mentioning the footnotes if you're trying to seem non-retarded.

It's like you really hoped the things you didn't like about the humanities were postmodern and never bothered to check. Do you go to /mu/ and tell them you hate The Beatles because you can't stand metal?

It is Dix. Goya is my favourite artist, it's good to see another fan.

>(((le))) reddit memespacing is over 9000 kekekek do fit in yet (((guise))) lol remember lolcatz???? lol milhouse is not a maymayyyyyyyy

He's been on Joe Rogan 3 times.
He's safe.
He's transcended chastisement.

>3deep5me
>T. Postmodernists

lmao

>I know better than the artist

Would it surprise you to know that Dix's work featured in the Nazis' "Degenerate Art" exhibition, towards the start of the regime?

They spoke about art in much the same way you /pol/ tourists do. Although, you probably knew that.

>abstract expressionists are modernists
>implying I wasn't talking about neo-expressionism

>About as much as the Greeks
t. has read neither postmodern lit or the greeks

As I said, it's not an idea. Learn to read. Me noticing that you see an object from a different angle that I do is not a philosophical position, it's an observation.
You can't, that's my point.

>Dix's work featured in the Nazis' "Degenerate Art"
not that guy, but that's even further proof it isn't a postmodern work

He was talking about "leftist" art. Though the distinction is probably lost on him.

>neo-expressionism
>not liking neo-expressionism
m8 it's neither hard to understand nor really the type of thing that engenders hate. if you really have a vendetta against it, never have kids.

>t. has read neither postmodern lit or the greeks
Why are you pretending to be Finnish on a board that knows the difference theatrical and Socratic irony? Do you think that the people with real educations believe you despite years of schooling, or are you hoping to be friends with people as ignorant as you? You might want to fish somewhere else if it's the latter.

>ALL OBSERVATIONS ARE RELATIVE. EXCEPT THIS ONE.
>ALSO NO YOU'RE WRONG. YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT I WROTE IS OBJECTIVELY WRONG. L2READ.
Sorry for the caps lock but all those performative contradictions are making me really tired. Pomo is brain cancer.

You can't refute it but you can't prove it either because that would tequire to instantiate logic in a realm where something are not relative.
Pomo is hide and seek disguised as a valid framework.
It's so passé imo

Um, no, sweetie, it is you, who is, the brainlet.

>I know better than the artist
Is objectively aesthetic. It's self evidently beautiful. No forced thought or emotion is required. There's nothing to find, it's all there immediately.

That's the difference between art and "art". Postmodern "art" can't be self-evident. If it is, it's no longer postmodern.

>It's so passé imo
it really is
shit was already done by the sophists

But you're proving me right by disagreeing with me, because you're introducing the second perspective of these points that makes them relative. So even my statements are relative.

Your second point is just silly. Postmodernism allows GREATER understanding of people's various positions. It doesn't prescribe that we should misunderstand each other.

Again, our visitor from the containment board was saying leftist art is "absolutely repugnant".

I pointed out the ridiculousness of him claiming to know better than the artist because he was, up until now, only aware of Picasso, Michaelangelo and Da Vinci.

you know you can look these things up, on google, in dictionaries, encyclopedias, criticism books, and a wealth of scholarship that neither of us can erase from existence. i look forward to your siege of the academie though.

What is Occam's razor?

sooooooooo deep

Left and right are false dichotomies.
There are only variant degrees of authority.

>>abstract expressionists are modernists
>>implying I wasn't talking about neo-expressionism
...those are late modernists. I don't know why I'm correcting an idiot but here we are. nonoko etc

Okay, Hobbes. Thanks for dropping by.

I just said it wasn't postmodern (topic of thread), someone argued with me after that statement; I assume he does think that it is postmodern.

Again, I'll just repeat this point because you don't seem to address it at all. It's not a philosophical position, it's an observation. Occam's razor does not require that you ask people to leave the room to make experience simpler. Postmodernism is NOT founded on a philosophical position but an observation of reality.

A finite system needs trade and some form of growth (progress/change) to exist > a system without these basic capitalist LAWS, will collapse > only how much authority/freedom there should be matters in the long run, everything else dies.
Every functioning state is capitalistic to some degree. The only thing that varies is the degree of freedom/fascism.

hahahahahhahahahahahahaha

>caring about meaningless terms

there's a reason you faggots are sitting here arguing over this outdated shit and aren't actually creating something

>haha I'm so much more cultured than you, I know Picasso!

>I feverly attach my intellectual insecurities onto everyone else in an desperate attempt at covering my lack of basic artistic knowledge behind a facade of radical tastes

this is like getting angry at people laughing at the kid talking about how led zepplin is the best of all time and how new music sucks. You sound like the plebiest of plebs. They are laughing at you because of how little amount of cultured knowledge is needed to see how much of a retard you are. You sound like a parody

And you were not able to answer my simple question of what is Occam's razor? Yes, you may have an extra special observation of reality, what use is such if you cannot penetrate the central point of a simple question?

I think it’s important to differentiate between two kinds of postmodernism. One is a theory of reality that tells us our fallible senses and truth systems don’t allow us to access objective truth, and therefore we can only construe it. The other is its outgrowth in academia, especially French intellectual circles, that took this belief to an extreme, relativising everything without replacing the shattered foundations with anything. The latter became a fad of obscurantist, masturbatory writing along the lines of Derrida that mistakes philosophy for aimless deconstruction of society’s beliefs without arriving at any positive conclusions. The former is, I believe, an accurate analysis that can serve as the foundation for finding truth in the future, as it releases us from our Western suppositions and lets us think freely again.

thanks for proving my point

Oh, I thought it was a rhetorical question implying that postmodernism goes against Occam's razor.

My understanding is essentially that it's about not introducing new entities into a system if they are not absolutely necessary. Why do you want me to explain it to you?

Kek. And how did he do that?

that's not a problem with postmodernism, it's a problem with US education. it's only referred to as a postmodern movement by people LARPing as educators and without the background to understand it. yes, that includes memerson with the bluehaired meanies.

Proving, not so much, the inability of a postmodern position to give an answer. But the inefficiency has greater costs that such a position conveniently ignores.

>this is the level of discourse on this board

lmao if you have nothing of actual substance to say, why even comment? You are like a retard who thinks everyone who understands the answer of 10+10 is pretentious and is showing of their mathematical knowledge when it's literally just people who cannot fathom how a grown ass man can lack so little self awareness

None of this happens to you, you lying mongoloid

stay mad radical leftist cuckold

the right is winning, how's it feel?

by evidencing the fact that he's a snob sperg going after people who don't appreciate the same middle-brow garbage he does

prolix discourse isn't necessarily quality discourse
now go back to your ethiopian jazz

Post with your real name

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"By evidencing". My, that's awfully highbrow. It's no wonder you've heard of Michaelangelo and Da Vinci.

This is the biggest misunderstanding of postmodernism as I see it. Postmodernism is not nihilism, which doesn't consider any answers as valid. Postmodernism presents MANY answers as valid, even ones that might appear to contradict. It's not a negation of meaning, it's a saturation. Life is full of contradicting perspectives and ideas, and just because one is true does not discount the other.

Now you might say that you'd rather a logical system that has NO contradictions. Fine. But then postmodernism would just say well this is one valid perspective of many, and others don't want a logical system with no contradictions and that's valid too.

This is my point to the OP about why there is so much hate. Postmodernism cannot be argues against because it's not an argument, it's an observation about the many different perspectives that life offers, and that it's not so simple to just choose between them.

Its also interesting that Neitsche gets put on the side against postmodernism but much of what he said encourages it. Each superman creates their own system of ethics and morality. Also, he spoke of multiple worldviews (Apollonian and Dyonisian) as if they each had equal claim to validity despite being contradictory.

Again, postmodernism is frustrating because it's not refutable, it can either be accepted or dismissed, but there is not going to be any good reason for doing either, just as there is no real reason to tell someone to shut up other than you don't have the patience for more perspectives.

You seem to have made a bit of a mistake in your post. Luckily, the users of Veeky Forums are always willing to help you clear this problem right up! You appear to have used a tripcode when posting, but your identity has nothing at all to do with the conversation! Whoops! You should always remember to stop using your tripcode when the thread it was used for is gone, unless another one is started! Posting with a tripcode when it isn't necessary is poor form. You should always try to post anonymously, unless your identity is absolutely vital to the post that you're making!
Now, there's no need to thank me - I'm just doing my bit to help you get used to the anonymous image-board culture!

looks like a cool dude I'd have a pint with, what's the problem?

oh right, this is what you're looking for. the defender of truth and justice, and all the downtrodden in the world

B-but, neo-Marxism! P-post modernism is... well, MEMERSON says... Oh, er... human nature?

daily reminder to you should read and understand what you're trying to discuss before discussing
plato.stanford.edu/entries/postmodernism/

I'm not the one who made the da vinci comment
but do go on, tell me all about his provincial taste