What are some excellent books on the craft of writing fiction? I have read Lawrence Block's Liars series...

What are some excellent books on the craft of writing fiction? I have read Lawrence Block's Liars series, as well as The Successful Novelist by David Morrell. Currently reading this one, any other good ones with useful advice?

The Art of Fiction by John Gardner

Aspects of the Novel, Forster

Suggested for short stories:
>"Notes on Writing Weird Fiction" by H. P. Lovecraft

For constructing a solid basic novel and avoiding shitty pitfalls:
>"How Not to write a novel" by Mittelmark & Newman
>"How to write a damn good novel" by James N. Frey
>"How to write a damn good novel II" by James N. Frey
>"Self-editing for fiction writers" by Browne & King

For writing poetry:
>"The ode less travelled" by Stephen Fry

"Motivational" whatever:
>"Zen in the art of writing" by Raymond Bradbury
>"On writing" by Stephen King

Academic procrastination:
>"The hero with 1000 faces" by Joseph Campbell
>"The golden bough" by George Frazer
>"The morphology of the folktale" by Vladimir Propp
>"The art of fiction" by J. Gardner
>"The book of legendary lands" by Umberto Eco
>""The elements of style" Strunk & White

Autismal worldbuilding procrastination:
>"The language construction kit" by M. Rosenfelder
>"The planet construction kit" by M. Rosenfelder

Actively avoid:
>"The writer's journey" by C. Vogler
>"How to books" anything with a logo that looks like pic related.

For anything of genuine worth:
>Be a naturally good writer, work hard at it and read widely.

That last one is the most important. Read and write a lot and actually think about how the text you're looking at is constructed as you do - you'll notice that the billion-word ridiculous fanfiction shit that gets written never really improves and this is because they're not reading other things and they're not really thinking about the text itself.

not OP but thanks

Thanks.

I think everything I have read so far has been in the "solid novel/avoiding pitfalls" category, aside some advice which I disagree with from Morrell who spends vacation time doing things first hand so they are more realistic. Lawrence Block's books were actually very well made, he gets to the point and everything boils down to "Just do it."

Which books are those, and which subheadings would you put them under? I'll add them to the pasta for next time someone asks.

"Telling Lies for Fun & Profit" I haven't read anything in your solid basic novel subheading, so I can't purely say it belongs in it. It might exist between the "motivational" and the "Solid" subheading. None of it is academic though, he writes on several interesting subjects and facets that revolve around approaching a novel, the act of writing, and life as a writer. and provides a good framework for beginners to find their own methods and style of writing. A lot of it boils down to being a consistent reader and writer every single day, but I think through reading it I have a better outlook on structure as well.

That sounds a lot like On Writing so I'll put it under Motivational. The Morrell isn't academic but is definitely procrastination (although not bad, per se) so I'll change academic to oh who cares. Here's the updated list (with Gardner added because people keep suggesting him).

Suggested for short stories:
>"Notes on Writing Weird Fiction" by H. P. Lovecraft

For constructing a solid basic novel and avoiding shitty pitfalls:
>"How Not to write a novel" by Mittelmark & Newman
>"How to write a damn good novel" by James N. Frey
>"How to write a damn good novel II" by James N. Frey
>"Self-editing for fiction writers" by Browne & King
>"The Art of Fiction" by John Gardner

For writing poetry:
>"The ode less travelled" by Stephen Fry

"Motivational" whatever:
>"Zen in the art of writing" by Raymond Bradbury
>"On Writing" by Stephen King
>"Telling Lies for Fun & Profit" by Lawrence Block

Procrastination:
>"The hero with 1000 faces" by Joseph Campbell
>"The golden bough" by George Frazer
>"The morphology of the folktale" by Vladimir Propp
>"The art of fiction" by J. Gardner
>"The book of legendary lands" by Umberto Eco
>"The elements of style" Strunk & White
>"The Successful Novelist" by David Morrell

Autismal worldbuilding procrastination:
>"The language construction kit" by M. Rosenfelder
>"The planet construction kit" by M. Rosenfelder

Actively avoid:
>"The writer's journey" by C. Vogler
>"How to books" anything with a logo that looks like pic related.

For anything of genuine worth:
>Be a naturally good writer, work hard at it and read widely.

That last one is the most important. Read and write a lot and actually think about how the text you're looking at is constructed as you do - you'll notice that the billion-word ridiculous fanfiction shit that gets written never really improves and this is because they're not reading other things and they're not really thinking about the text itself.

Ehh, "On Writing" is very autobiographical, and offers very little actual writing advice other than purely beginners stylistic and grammatical mistakes. Block's advice is much more technically robust, however there are bits of life stuff like "If you lift weights and don't do drugs your mind will work better for writing."

shit if you felt strongly about it being in the other category you should have said. I'll try to remember next time. or if you see someone else asking, you can repost it with whatever changed.

>stephen fries with that oder
cum on... axual poets with Noble prizes have written bucks on how toooo write poetry, o why wood uou read FRY!

Yeah but you put the "whatever" on the end of it like it's bad and shouldn't be read. Stephen King's on writing fits that description, but I think telling lies is a legitimately useful read, but I guess that's just my opinion.

seconding this.

You're better off just reading shitloads of fiction in assorted genres and eras. Aim for quality, but read the best-selling 'genre' stuff too.

By the time you're at the 200 mark or so you'll have internalized most of what any of these books could ever teach.

I just meant it was a vague category, but point taken.

> the billion-word ridiculous fanfiction shit that gets written never really improves and this is because they're not reading other things

THIS

Too many 'writers' don't read. For various reasons but mostly just laziness.

They get all their 'inspiration' from television and have no clue how to construct a basic sentence never mind anything else. I've come across critiques where the wannabe doesn't even know how to punctuate dialogue.

Most newbie questions such as scene transitions, chapter or scene length, pacing, descriptions, etc.can be answered by just reading more.

there are none. read a technical/professional writing manual or part of one to get the lowdown on semicolons and who/whom and all that bullshit (you're better off with something like the APA manual of style than "muh strunk and white" meme book)

otherwise just read good books. lots of them. hundreds of them.

there are, maybe, half a dozen good novelists alive right now. none of them have written how-to books. that isn't how this works

i feel like a good book or story is mostly about what is conveyed and how truthfully, what you get from guides and gurus is mostly technical shit like grammar and advice that you can disregard if you feel like it. the most goodest advice is b urself i guess

>>"The art of fiction" by J. Gardner
This one is actually good with practical exercises, not "procrastination" at all.

The techniques of plotting have been better preserved in screen writing and plays than novels (largely because in literature its considered valid to wing out a story and not think too much about structure), so in that respect look into Lajos Egri and Brian McDonald

#1 rule for any of these books is to actually test the concepts to see if they actually work for you and/or conform to previous experience, these things are only tools, not the endgame

Read Techniques or the Selling Writer, by Dwight Swaim. All others matter not.

the art of the novel by kundera is extremely well written. He is a based author already

This is a great introduction to the basic elements of a novel.

Why would he do that when he can read 2 or 3 books on writing fiction you retard, the point of "how to" books is accelerated learning without having to deduce useful shit from hundreds of experiences

As someone whose read plenty of these type of books I can understand the sentiment. Sometimes these how-to books are filled with their own bullshit you have to sift through to the point you might as well just reverse engineer the classics.

But, thats why you gotta know what you're looking for.